Janosky:

If you really study your Bible well, the Father Jehovah to whom "every Family in heaven and earth owes it's name" Eph3:14,15 is the source of creation.
Jehovah is the brain behind it..."Let us make man" etc.
John1:3 "Through 'Greek dia autou'>the channel for it.
Heb1:2 says "Through" Jesus , God made the universe.
Based on heb1:2, "through him" is best rendition for John1:3 .
Therefore heb1:2 emphasized and validates "other things" in Col1:15,16 as authentic.
Prov 8:22-30 is a validation of Heb1:2.
NWT is correct.
Pls check John 1:3 lexicon and text analysis in biblehub.com

I honestly think you need to look at the passages raised in the creation story in Genesis and respond rather than side-steping the question to answer/raise other issues.

I said: You (JWs) say God creating the universe is likened to a CEO who built a company with the assistance of others like accountants, lawyers, workmen etc. And it would still be the CEO that built the company (not minding the fact that others were part of the building).

In the case where God created everything (by using Jesus), this argument of yours is feasible/tenable as an explanation.

However, in the Scriptures I posted, where God was Quoted to have SAID: Let there Be ....and there was ....., It shows the God Himself was actively doing the creating of things without a second/third person.


Did God create LIGHT?
Yes!
How?
By saying "Let there be Light"!
And then what happened when God said it?
There was Light!

So, according to your understanding, did a second/third person create the Light?
Please explain?

shadeyinka:

I honestly think you need to look at the passages raised in the creation story in Genesis and respond rather than side-steping the question to answer/raise other issues.

I said: You (JWs) say God creating the universe is likened to a CEO who built a company with the assistance of others like accountants, lawyers, workmen etc. And it would still be the CEO that built the company (not minding the fact that others were part of the building).

In the case where God created everything (by using Jesus), this argument of yours is feasible/tenable as an explanation.

However, in the Scriptures I posted, where God was Quoted to have SAID: Let there Be ....and there was ....., It shows the God Himself was actively doing the creating of things without a second/third person.


Did God create LIGHT?
Yes!
How?
By saying "Let there be Light"!
And then what happened when God said it?
There was Light!

So, according to your understanding, did a second/third person create the Light?
Please explain?

It's like Proverbs 8:30 would be of help here!
¤I was beside him!
¤As one brought up with him!
¤I was daily his delight!
¤Rejoicing always before him! {KJV}
I think this person is in the best position to throw more light on Genesis 1:3
Colossians 1:15 says Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN of all creatures! {KJV}
What did he have to say about God?
@ John 3:17 For God did NOT SEND his son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved! {KJV}

What was the early Christians conception about Jesus?
@Matthew 16:16 Peter {one of his closest confidants} said 'You are the Christ, the son of the living God'

What was Jesus' response?
Matthew 16:17 'Blessed you are Simon son of Jonas, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you but MY FATHER who is in heaven! {KJV}

Well the person who happens to be beside God in the beginning is Jesus {John 1:1} so i concluded that he is the one receiving orders from God who was giving orders saying 'let there be light' Genesis 1:3

What confused most Bible readers is the rendering of the title God, where translators often use small letters when referring to smaller gods but due to the misconception of this TRANSLATORS, they rendered the title same way in the case of Father and his dear Son! John 1:14 compared to Exodus 7:1 and Psalms 82:1

Maximus69:
It's like Proverbs 8:30 would be of help here!
¤I was beside him!
¤As one brought up with him!
¤I was daily his delight!
¤Rejoicing always before him! {KJV}
I think this person is in the best position to throw more light on Genesis 1:3
Colossians 1:15 says Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN of all creatures! {KJV}
What did he have to say about God?
@ John 3:17 For God did NOT SEND his son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved! {KJV}

What was the early Christians conception about Jesus?
@Matthew 16:16 Peter {one of his closest confidants} said 'You are the Christ, the son of the living God'

What was Jesus' response?
Matthew 16:17 'Blessed you are Simon son of Jonas, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you but MY FATHER who is in heaven! {KJV}

Well the person who happens to be beside God in the beginning is Jesus {John 1:1} so i concluded that he is the one receiving orders from God who was giving orders saying 'let there be light' Genesis 1:3

What confused most Bible readers is the rendering of the title God, where translators often use small letters when referring to smaller gods but due to the misconception of this TRANSLATORS, they rendered the title same way in the case of Father and his dear Son! John 1:14 compared to Exodus 7:1 and Psalms 82:1

First, I must commend you for quoting Scriptures rather that links to Scriptures as it makes it easier to comprehend you.

However, I think you are trying to force the Scriptures to say what is not apparent in the bolded.

I believe you got my argument:
I said your argument is that God is like a CEO who presided over the creation through Jesus Christ. And I said, this argument is plausible!
HOWEVER,
We have Quotes attributed to God Himself AND the power released as a result of God's words of command.

Gen 1:3:
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."

Gen 1:6:
"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the middle of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."

Gen 1:9:
"And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together to one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so."

Gen 1:11:
"And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth: and it was so."

Gen 1:14:
"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

Gen 1:20:
"And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that has life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."

Gen 1:24:
"And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so."

Whatever the argument you intend to use must also apply to the Scriptures below

Gen 1:28:
"And God blessed them , and God said to them , Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

Gen 1:29:
"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."

Gen 3:9:
"And the LORD God "And the LORD God said to the serpent, Because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; on your belly shall you go, and dust shall you eat all the days of your life:"

Gen 6:13:
"And God said to Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth."

Gen 9:12:
"And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:"

Did God use an intermediary to speak to man?
Mind you, we are still in Genesis: the creation narrative.


Please, I will prefer that we study the Scriptures above rather than digressing with other relevant or irrelevant Scriptures. Thanks

TATIME:
We're striving really hard to manage the little time we have! Ephesians 5:15-16
We have many sheep out there to preach and teach,so there is no time to waste on those who don't finds our presentations appealing! Matthew 10:13
If you have any question and you've noticed that JWs are capable of answering, welcome our brothers and sisters coming to knock your doors. This is not the appropriate place for our ministry!
God bless you!

You've said that before but you keep coming here. If you do not, take your own words seriously, how will you take my words or God's Word seriously?

shadeyinka:

First, I must commend you for quoting Scriptures rather that links to Scriptures as it makes it easier to comprehend you.
However, I think you are trying to force the Scriptures to say what is not apparent in the bolded.
I believe you got my argument:
I said your argument is that God is like a CEO who presided over the creation through Jesus Christ. And I said, this argument is plausible!
HOWEVER,
We have Quotes attributed to God Himself AND the power released as a result of God's words of command.
Gen 1:3:
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
Gen 1:6:
"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the middle of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."
Gen 1:9:
"And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together to one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so."
Gen 1:11:
"And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth: and it was so."
Gen 1:14:
"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"
Gen 1:20:
"And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that has life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."
Gen 1:24:
"And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so."
Whatever the argument you intend to use must also apply to the Scriptures below
Gen 1:28:
"And God blessed them , and God said to them , Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."
Gen 1:29:
"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."
Gen 3:9:
"And the LORD God "And the LORD God said to the serpent, Because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; on your belly shall you go, and dust shall you eat all the days of your life:"
Gen 6:13:
"And God said to Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth."
Gen 9:12:
"And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:"
Did God use an intermediary to speak to man?
Mind you, we are still in Genesis: the creation narrative.
Please, I will prefer that we study the Scriptures above rather than digressing with other relevant or irrelevant Scriptures. Thanks

All your arguments are based on one single verse, 'John 1:1'

You often say JWs are always reading the scriptures through the lens of our GB, and i will never tell you a lie Sir, that is 100% true!
But you who is accusing JWs of doing so took no note of the lens with which you kept reading God's word 'TRINITY' Please first try to keep TRINITY away for a moment perhaps you'll be able to see what we're saying! Matthew 7:1-5

The scriptures is complete! John wrote

'in the beginning WAS the word, and the word WAS with God and the word WAS GOD' KJV

'in the beginning WAS the word, and the word WAS with God and the word WAS a god' NWT

It is evident that the translators of the KJV were navigating their rendering of the WORD towards the TRINITY concept.
While the translators of the NWT are doing so towards the FATHER and SON concept.

So if you are insisting on the TRINITY concept there is no way you will see reasons with the NWT, and the same goes to JWs for we will never see reasons with that verse of the KJV. John 1:1

Now to address your question.

¤Jehovah is the most high God. Psalms 83:18
¤His eyes can't look unto sin. Habakkuk 1:13
This means from the day Adam and Eve became sinners someone lesser in holiness than the one whose eyes CAN'T LOOK UNTO SIN has been acting as a mediator between sinful mankind and the Most high God Jehovah. But this person knows that what he is doing is to glorify his father who is holy to the extent of not able to keep seeing evil!
So who has been acting God after the event in Eden? Jesus!
Now that he is about to hand over everything back to his father and God{1Corinthians 15:27-28 compared to John 20:17}} after redeeming some of Adam's descendants making them sons of God just as we supposed to be {Revelations 5:10} this same Jesus is now revealing to his faithful followers his past activities {John 1:1} yet he made it clear to them that he is doing all of this to the glory of someone :

Who is the excellent in GOOD deeds {Mark 10:18}
Who is greater in all things {John 14:28}
Who has the ultimate power to save {John 11:41-42}
Whom all of us should beg for help {Matthew 26:39}

That is why the scriptures summed up everything we needed to know about the personality of Jesus as the WORD. This means all that we have been hearing or reading from the scriptures about God has been the handiwork of just one person JESUS who is JEHOVAH'S spokesperson both in heaven and here on earth! John 1:1,14,18

Now all of these you will just discard as IRRELEVANT due to your love for the TRINITY concept!

Image123:


You've said that before but you keep coming here. If you do not, take your own words seriously, how will you take my words or God's Word seriously?

Hmmm, Hypocrisy at it's peak!
So after complaining and lamenting on why someone ignored you, you can still shamelessly say what's actually in your mind! Luke 6:45
Well we are instructed to drop simple presentations ANYWHERE we can find people but the TEACHING of God's word can't be done on faceless social media. It is a one on one thing where you will keep learning from the thoughts, words and actions of the one TEACHING you! Hebrew 13:7 compared to Deuteronomy 6:6-8
So when Jesus ordered us to go out for preaching and teaching, his Apostles made us to understand that we should be going back to visit those who finds our presentations appealing {Act 15:36} and carefully AVOIDING individuals like you who just want to argue ! Titus 3:9
That is what JWs are doing, and you can't prevent us from reaching out to those who needed our presentations both in your neighbourhood and on social media, neither can you stop us from teaching those who REALLY want to learn!

Good morning my Brother, how was your night?

Maximus69:
All your arguments are based on one single verse, 'John 1:1'

No Sir!
My argument here has been based mainly on the creation story in Genesis. Of course, related to John1:1-3, Col1:8-9,
Heb1:15-18 and Heb1: 1-6.

My argument had been on the QUOTE from God in Creation, "LET THERE BE.....AND THERE WAS". All the Scriptures didn't in any way suggest an intermediary. Don't you think so?

Maximus69:

You often say JWs are always reading the scriptures through the lens of our GB, and i will never tell you a lie Sir, that is 100% true!
But you who is accusing JWs of doing so took no note of the lens with which you kept reading God's word 'TRINITY' Please first try to keep TRINITY away for a moment perhaps you'll be able to see what we're saying! Matthew 7:1-5

The scriptures is complete! John wrote

'in the beginning WAS the word, and the word WAS with God and the word WAS GOD' KJV

'in the beginning WAS the word, and the word WAS with God and the word WAS a god' NWT

It is evident that the translators of the KJV were navigating their rendering of the WORD towards the TRINITY concept.
While the translators of the NWT are doing so towards the FATHER and SON concept.

So if you are insisting on the TRINITY concept there is no way you will see reasons with the NWT, and the same goes to JWs for we will never see reasons with that verse of the KJV. John 1:1

I think the problem is that JW look at creation from the physical point of view which preclude the impossibility of a Living Spirit Being! Hence as far as you are concerned "the Spirit of God" can only mean one thing: and that thing is "the Power of God".

When you look at the Scriptures, it is not possible not to be bewildered by the personality of Jesus Christ: First as a MAN subject to every frailties of man like Pain, Weakness, Hunger etc and Yet a DEVINE BEING who on one side is Lower than the Father AND at the other hand having the FULL ATTRIBUTES OF GOD. Whether from the Unitarian or Trinitarian point of view is a daunting and herculean task.

As Unitarians, you have taken and UNIFIED just two of the above about Christ: He is Man and As devine, Lower than God and the Father. As Trinitarians, we have UNIFIED the three about Christ: He is Man and as Devine, Lower than the Father and a Yet being God Himself.

I think it is fair to say that none of us started from any premise of "Unitarian or Trinitarian" but from the seeming complexity of the Scriptures with regards to the nature of God.

The TRUTH can only be known not from personal biases but by critical look at the Scriptures.

A major Question that you should answer is this:
1. Is a Spirit a Personality OR a Force?

2. In nature, Is the concept of Duality or Trinity a contradiction/impossibility?

Maximus69:

Now to address your question.

¤Jehovah is the most high God. Psalms 83:18
¤His eyes can't look unto sin. Habakkuk 1:13
This means from the day Adam and Eve became sinners someone lesser in holiness than the one whose eyes CAN'T LOOK UNTO SIN has been acting as a mediator between sinful mankind and the Most high God Jehovah. But this person knows that what he is doing is to glorify his father who is holy to the extent of not able to keep seeing evil!
So who has been acting God after the event in Eden? Jesus!
Now that he is about to hand over everything back to his father and God{1Corinthians 15:27-28 compared to John 20:17}} after redeeming some of Adam's descendants making them sons of God just as we supposed to be {Revelations 5:10} this same Jesus is now revealing to his faithful followers his past activities {John 1:1} yet he made it clear to them that he is doing all of this to the glory of someone :

Who is the excellent in GOOD deeds {Mark 10:18}
Who is greater in all things {John 14:28}
Who has the ultimate power to save {John 11:41-42}
Whom all of us should beg for help {Matthew 26:39}

That is why the scriptures summed up everything we needed to know about the personality of Jesus as the WORD. This means all that we have been hearing or reading from the scriptures about God has been the handiwork of just one person JESUS who is JEHOVAH'S spokesperson both in heaven and here on earth! John 1:1,14,18

Now all of these you will just discard as IRRELEVANT due to your love for the TRINITY concept!

Notice that you evaded specific analysis of the scriptures from Genesis that I presented where Gods Command produced immediate Action of creation. The implication if you had tried to is to prove that God's word is devoid of any real power to create (of course you wouldn't do that).

I think that your presentation @bolded is incorrect as all the Scriptures did not present God as being represented by Jesus Christ after Gen3. In fact the NWT use the word Jehovah (explicitly) in refering to God in ALL those Scriptures.

Since according to you, Jesus is NOT Jehovah, the phrase "..and Jehovah said...." Can only mean one thing: that "Jehovah said... and NOT Jesus said.."


But if as you said: that Jesus was standing in for/representing Jehovah (because Jehovah cannot behold iniquity) we can replace Jehovah with Jesus from Gen3 to Revelation 22. But, what would that make Jesus to be when you look at all Scriptures which say "Jehovah said.."? Jehovah!??

Note:
Gen18:1-5 NWT
Afterward, Jehovah appeared to him among the big trees of Mamʹreb while he was sitting at the entrance of the tent during the hottest part of the day. 2 He looked up and saw three men standing some distance from him.c When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to meet them, and he bowed down to the ground. 3 Then he said: “Jehovah , if I have found favor in your eyes, please do not pass by your servant. 4 Please, let a little water be brought and have your feet washed;d then recline under the tree. 5 Seeing that you have come here to your servant, let me bring a piece of bread so that you may refresh yourselves.* Then you may go on your way.” At this they said: “All right. You may do as you have spoken.”

From the Scriptures above, who really did Abraham interact with: Jesus or Jehovah?

shadeyinka:
Good morning my Brother, how was your night?


No Sir!
My argument here has been based mainly on the creation story in Genesis. Of course, related to John1:1-3, Col1:8-9,
Heb1:15-18 and Heb1: 1-6.

My argument had been on the QUOTE from God in Creation, "LET THERE BE.....AND THERE WAS". All the Scriptures didn't in any way suggest an intermediary. Don't you think so?


I think the problem is that JW look at creation from the physical point of view which preclude the impossibility of a Living Spirit Being! Hence as far as you are concerned "the Spirit of God" can only mean one thing: and that thing is "the Power of God".

When you look at the Scriptures, it is not possible not to be bewildered by the personality of Jesus Christ: First as a MAN subject to every frailties of man like Pain, Weakness, Hunger etc and Yet a DEVINE BEING who on one side is Lower than the Father AND at the other hand having the FULL ATTRIBUTES OF GOD. Whether from the Unitarian or Trinitarian point of view is a daunting and herculean task.

As Unitarians, you have taken and UNIFIED just two of the above about Christ: He is Man and As devine, Lower than God and the Father. As Trinitarians, we have UNIFIED the three about Christ: He is Man and as Devine, Lower than the Father and a Yet being God Himself.

I think it is fair to say that none of us started from any premise of "Unitarian or Trinitarian" but from the seeming complexity of the Scriptures with regards to the nature of God.

The TRUTH can only be known not from personal biases but by critical look at the Scriptures.

A major Question that you should answer is this:
1. Is a Spirit a Personality OR a Force?

2. In nature, Is the concept of Duality or Trinity a contradiction/impossibility?


Notice that you evaded specific analysis of the scriptures from Genesis that I presented where Gods Command produced immediate Action of creation. The implication if you had tried to is to prove that God's word is devoid of any real power to create (of course you wouldn't do that).

I think that your presentation @bolded is incorrect as all the Scriptures did not present God as being represented by Jesus Christ after Gen3. In fact the NWT use the word Jehovah (explicitly) in refering to God in ALL those Scriptures.

Since according to you, Jesus is NOT Jehovah, the phrase "..and Jehovah said...." Can only mean one thing: that "Jehovah said... and NOT Jesus said.."


But if as you said: that Jesus was standing in for/representing Jehovah (because Jehovah cannot behold iniquity) we can replace Jehovah with Jesus from Gen3 to Revelation 22. But, what would that make Jesus to be when you look at all Scriptures which say "Jehovah said.."? Jehovah!??

Note:
Gen18:1-5 NWT
Afterward, Jehovah appeared to him among the big trees of Mamʹreb while he was sitting at the entrance of the tent during the hottest part of the day. 2 He looked up and saw three men standing some distance from him.c When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to meet them, and he bowed down to the ground. 3 Then he said: “Jehovah , if I have found favor in your eyes, please do not pass by your servant. 4 Please, let a little water be brought and have your feet washed;d then recline under the tree. 5 Seeing that you have come here to your servant, let me bring a piece of bread so that you may refresh yourselves.* Then you may go on your way.” At this they said: “All right. You may do as you have spoken.”

From the Scriptures above, who really did Abraham interact with: Jesus or Jehovah?

From Abel till John the baptist interacted with the angel representing JEHOVAH in the person of Jesus! Genesis 18:3
Jehovah dealt directly with Adam and Eve whom he created without sin, but after they were sent out from his presence God never dealt with anyone DIRECT again so any other person interacted with Jesus NOT Jehovah. The person who said 'let there be light' is JEHOVAH not Jesus, but after the event in Eden Jesus stepped in to redeem us back to his father. That is why the scriptures appropriately quote 'no man has seen the Father at any given time' John 1:18
Because JEHOVAH'S eyes are too pure to look unto sin and Adamic sin has affected all his offspring! Romans 3:23, 5:12
The first time God started dealing directly with humans again was after he anointed them with his holy spirit as his spiritual sons making them BORN AGAIN! So the first time JEHOVAH spoke directly from heaven into the hearing of SINFUL humans was at Jesus' baptism! Matthew 3:17
Before then the spirit acting as God WAS Jesus.
For instance, Pharaoh knew Moses as the God who is snatching his slaves out of his hands, he can't see any reason to believe in Jehovah whom he is not seeing {Exodus 5:2} But Moses was actually representing JEHOVAH! Exodus 7:1
In the same instance it was Jesus that all faithful humans spoke with, heard and saw NOT Jehovah, but since Jesus represented his father perfectly in the spirit, it is appropriate to say 'whoever has seen Jesus has also seen JEHOVAH' John 14:8-10
So when the scriptures said Moses saw Jehovah face to face { Numbers 12:8, Deuteronomy 34:10} that will totally contradict what was written in the Bible book of John 1:18 if it was not another person he ACTUALLY saw! John 1:1

shadeyinka:
Good morning my Brother, how was your night?
No Sir!
My argument here has been based mainly on the creation story in Genesis. Of course, related to John1:1-3, Col1:8-9,
Heb1:15-18 and Heb1: 1-6.
My argument had been on the QUOTE from God in Creation, "LET THERE BE.....AND THERE WAS". All the Scriptures didn't in any way suggest an intermediary. Don't you think so?
I think the problem is that JW look at creation from the physical point of view which preclude the impossibility of a Living Spirit Being! Hence as far as you are concerned "the Spirit of God" can only mean one thing: and that thing is "the Power of God".
When you look at the Scriptures, it is not possible not to be bewildered by the personality of Jesus Christ: First as a MAN subject to every frailties of man like Pain, Weakness, Hunger etc and Yet a DEVINE BEING who on one side is Lower than the Father AND at the other hand having the FULL ATTRIBUTES OF GOD. Whether from the Unitarian or Trinitarian point of view is a daunting and herculean task.
As Unitarians, you have taken and UNIFIED just two of the above about Christ: He is Man and As devine, Lower than God and the Father. As Trinitarians, we have UNIFIED the three about Christ: He is Man and as Devine, Lower than the Father and a Yet being God Himself.
I think it is fair to say that none of us started from any premise of "Unitarian or Trinitarian" but from the seeming complexity of the Scriptures with regards to the nature of God.
The TRUTH can only be known not from personal biases but by critical look at the Scriptures.
A major Question that you should answer is this:
1. Is a Spirit a Personality OR a Force?

2. In nature, Is the concept of Duality or Trinity a contradiction/impossibility?
[/b]

This case is simple it is either you serve the God of the Unitarians or that of the Trinitarians, there is no sitting on the fence YOU MUST CHOOSE ONE! Joshua 24:15

That is why it is very important that you listen CAREFULLY during the presentations of both the Unitarians and that of the Trinitarians {Act 17:11} before concluding in your mind that you've heard or known the true God!

Your two questions!

(1)The inspired writers do use the word spirit in divers ways, you need to read, study and meditate prayerfully to know the application thereof. God is a spirit {John 4:24 } angels are spirits creatures {Ephesians 6:12 compared to 2Peter 2:4} while the active force that's rejuvenating or sustaining other visible living creatures was also rendered as 'spirit' Psalms 146:4 compared to Ecclesiastes 3:19-20

(2) The concept of duality or trinity is totally a contradiction to the truth about God! Deuteronomy 6:4 compared to Mark 12:29
There are evil spirit creatures who loved to be worshiped, each giving his own PERSONAL rules to his human worshipers but the difference between them and the true God is that while demons gives contradicting standards deceiving their worshipers that it is all for the same God, The true God set one single standard binding on all his own worshipers.
So when Moses mediated between God and Israel, whoever steps a bit out of the rules is no more worshiping that spirit who gave the rules.
The same thing happens when Jesus mediated between God and the 144,000 anointed Christians, whoever steps a bit out of the rules is no more worshiping Jesus' God. That is why you're seeing all those claiming born again Pastors and nonedenominational that they can't speak with one voice because they're assuming that it is the same God they are worshiping and we are saying NO that is not in accordance with our own JEHOVAH!

Maximus69:

Hmmm, Hypocrisy at it's peak!
So after complaining and lamenting on why someone ignored you, you can still shamelessly say what's actually in your mind! Luke 6:45
Well we are instructed to drop simple presentations ANYWHERE we can find people but the TEACHING of God's word can't be done on faceless social media. It is a one on one thing where you will keep learning from the thoughts, words and actions of the one TEACHING you! Hebrew 13:7 compared to Deuteronomy 6:6-8
So when Jesus ordered us to go out for preaching and teaching, his Apostles made us to understand that we should be going back to visit those who finds our presentations appealing {Act 15:36} and carefully AVOIDING individuals like you who just want to argue ! Titus 3:9
That is what JWs are doing, and you can't prevent us from reaching out to those who needed our presentations both in your neighbourhood and on social media, neither can you stop us from teaching those who REALLY want to learn!

Excellent my dear brother, i couldn't think of any better response!
Maximus, may our heavenly father bless you!

Thanks!

Maximus69:
This case is simple it is either you serve the God of the Unitarians or that of the Trinitarians, there is no sitting on the fence YOU MUST CHOOSE ONE! Joshua 24:15

That is why it is very important that you listen CAREFULLY during the presentations of both the Unitarians and that of the Trinitarians {Act 17:11} before concluding in your mind that you've heard or known the true God!

Your two questions!

(1)The inspired writers do use the word spirit in divers ways, you need to read, study and meditate prayerfully to know the application thereof. God is a spirit {John 4:24 } angels are spirits creatures {Ephesians 6:12 compared to 2Peter 2:4} while the active force that's rejuvenating or sustaining other visible living creatures was also rendered as 'spirit' Psalms 146:4 compared to Ecclesiastes 3:19-20

You have answered this question well.
For God is a SPIRIT!

This is what The Rest of us Christians call the Holy Spirit!.
If God is the Father
And God is the Holy Spirit

You have just established the "Duality of God"!

Maximus69:

(2) The concept of duality or trinity is totally a contradiction to the truth about God! Deuteronomy 6:4 compared to Mark 12:29
There are evil spirit creatures who loved to be worshiped, each giving his own PERSONAL rules to his human worshipers but the difference between them and the true God is that while demons gives contradicting standards deceiving their worshipers that it is all for the same God, The true God set one single standard binding on all his own worshipers.
So when Moses mediated between God and Israel, whoever steps a bit out of the rules is no more worshiping that spirit who gave the rules.
The same thing happens when Jesus mediated between God and the 144,000 anointed Christians, whoever steps a bit out of the rules is no more worshiping Jesus' God. That is why you're seeing all those claiming born again Pastors and nonedenominational that they can't speak with one voice because they're assuming that it is the same God they are worshiping and we are saying NO that is not in accordance with our own JEHOVAH!

I think your conception of trinity is completely wrong: as you are seeing three Gods uniting as one. This is completely anti-Scripture.
Trinity isn't three Gods uniting or cooperating as God.
Trinity is one God having three independent and distinct identities.
The Trinity consists of the identity of the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit.

Do you think this is a contradiction?

Maximus69:
From Abel till John the baptist interacted with the angel representing JEHOVAH in the person of Jesus! Genesis 18:3
Jehovah dealt directly with Adam and Eve whom he created without sin, but after they were sent out from his presence God never dealt with anyone DIRECT again so any other person interacted with Jesus NOT Jehovah. The person who said 'let there be light' is JEHOVAH not Jesus, but after the event in Eden Jesus stepped in to redeem us back to his father. That is why the scriptures appropriately quote 'no man has seen the Father at any given time' John 1:18
Because JEHOVAH'S eyes are too pure to look unto sin and Adamic sin has affected all his offspring! Romans 3:23, 5:12

There is no single scripture that says Jehovah stopped DIRECTLY relating to humans by Himself. In fact here is what the Bible says

Heb 1:1-2:
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, Has in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"

God in the PAST spoke to the Father's by the prophets NOW has spoken to us by His son says the Scripture. Hence your theory is unfounded.

You make God look so powerless that you portray Him as one who flees on seeing sin. But that's is not true!

Job 1:6-9:
"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said to Satan, From where come you? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. And the LORD said to Satan, Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that fears God, and eschews evil? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Does Job fear God for nothing?"

If Jehovah God can interact with the father of lies and sin, how much more those He created in His own likeness!

If Jehovah God can appear to Moses within the Fire and as an "angel of the Lord", is it impossible for God to appear as man to humans?

Exo 3:2:
"And the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the middle of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed."

Acts 7:30:
"And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush."

Look at this two Scriptures speaking about the same event. I guess you should look it up in the NWT

Maximus69:


The first time God started dealing directly with humans again was after he anointed them with his holy spirit as his spiritual sons making them BORN AGAIN! So the first time JEHOVAH spoke directly from heaven into the hearing of SINFUL humans was at Jesus' baptism! Matthew 3:17

Then the NWT should replace the name of Jehovah with that of Jesus throughout the old testament. This evidence honestly is too strong to be waived away. And the Scriptures never taught the @bolded.

Maximus69:

Before then the spirit acting as God WAS Jesus.
For instance, Pharaoh knew Moses as the God who is snatching his slaves out of his hands, he can't see any reason to believe in Jehovah whom he is not seeing {Exodus 5:2} But Moses was actually representing JEHOVAH! Exodus 7:1
In the same instance it was Jesus that all faithful humans spoke with, heard and saw NOT Jehovah, but since Jesus represented his father perfectly in the spirit, it is appropriate to say 'whoever has seen Jesus has also seen JEHOVAH' John 14:8-10
So when the scriptures said Moses saw Jehovah face to face { Numbers 12:8, Deuteronomy 34:10} that will totally contradict what was written in the Bible book of John 1:18 if it was not another person he ACTUALLY saw! John 1:1

No Sir!
Is Jehovah not Different from Jesus?
Jehovah is the Personal name of God isn't it?

Your NWT abounds with Jehovah dealing with man throughout the Scriptures. There were just a few passages where Jehovah appeared as the "Angel of Jehovah" or as "a Man" or "within Fire" or "as a voice".

The bolded is wrong sir!
Exo 5:1:
"And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus said the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast to me in the wilderness."

Pharaoh didn't see Moses as a god.

This is what Jehovah God said:

Exo 7:1:
"And the LORD said to Moses, See, I have made you a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet."

What does this Scripture mean? Pharaoh should worship Moses? No!

shadeyinka:
Thanks!
You have answered this question well.
For God is a SPIRIT!
This is what The Rest of us Christians call the Holy Spirit!.
If God is the Father
And God is the Holy Spirit
You have just established the "Duality of God"!
I think your conception of trinity is completely wrong: as you are seeing three Gods uniting as one. This is completely anti-Scripture.
Trinity isn't three Gods uniting or cooperating as God.
Trinity is one God having three independent and distinct identities.
The Trinity consists of the identity of the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit.
Do you think this is a contradiction?

You can't know if answers are correct or not yet, so your statement 'you have answered well is unwarranted'
What proves a concept right or wrong is when it is applied.
If it is right, it will be PRACTICALLY Apllicable but if not it will never work out fine within those trying to apply it! James 2:18-26

God is a spirit but he totally differs from the holy spirit which is his active force!

Man is a living creature,he does certain things with different parts of his body :
Hand ~is to carry, give and work for good purposes.
Leg ~is to walk, kick or run.
Eye ~is to see
Ear ~is to listen
Brain ~is to think

Unlike mortal man,Jehovah accomplish all his own purposes by means of his holy spirit, he doesn't need to live his throne before doing anything.
Other spirits move from one place to another before accomplishing their purposes! Mark 5:11 compared to Job 1:7

It's Jehovah's holy spirit that affected over 120 persons at Pentecost {Act 2:1-4} making them to do something strange!
So Jehovah is a person but the holy spirit is NOT a person.
Most trinitarians concludes that since Jesus used an adverb for the holy spirit { John 14:26} Jesus also did the same with 'Wisdom' of course WISDOM is not a person! Luke 7:35

shadeyinka:

There is no single scripture that says Jehovah stopped DIRECTLY relating to humans by Himself. In fact here is what the Bible says

Heb 1:1-2:
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, Has in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"

God in the PAST spoke to the Father's by the prophets NOW has spoken to us by His son says the Scripture. Hence your theory is unfounded.

You make God look so powerless that you portray Him as one who flees on seeing sin. But that's is not true!

Job 1:6-9:
"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said to Satan, From where come you? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. And the LORD said to Satan, Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that fears God, and eschews evil? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Does Job fear God for nothing?"

If Jehovah God can interact with the father of lies and sin, how much more those He created in His own likeness!

If Jehovah God can appear to Moses within the Fire and as an "angel of the Lord", is it impossible for God to appear as man to humans?

Exo 3:2:
"And the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the middle of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed."

Acts 7:30:
"And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush."

Look at this two Scriptures speaking about the same event. I guess you should look it up in the NWT




Then the NWT should replace the name of Jehovah with that of Jesus throughout the old testament. This evidence honestly is too strong to be waived away. And the Scriptures never taught the @bolded.


No Sir!
Is Jehovah not Different from Jesus?
Jehovah is the Personal name of God isn't it?

Your NWT abounds with Jehovah dealing with man throughout the Scriptures. There were just a few passages where Jehovah appeared as the "Angel of Jehovah" or as "a Man" or "within Fire" or "as a voice".

The bolded is wrong sir!
Exo 5:1:
"And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus said the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast to me in the wilderness."

Pharaoh didn't see Moses as a god.

This is what Jehovah God said:

Exo 7:1:
"And the LORD said to Moses, See, I have made you a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet."

What does this Scripture mean? Pharaoh should worship Moses? No!

As i said, you can never know if a cencept is right or wrong. It is after the application that you will be able to SEE whether it's right or wrong.
For instance, the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and other Jewish Rabbis claims God's holy spirit is working in their midst, but which group was bearing the FRUIT of the holy spirit? ONLY the most vilified GROUP back then called Christians!

So try to apply the concept and watch all those doing so, if truthfully God's holy spirit is revealing the truth to them they will bear the FRUIT befitting that spirit but if not they will just continue to argue within themselves whereas they'll stand at a distance SEEING that God's holy spirit is working in the midst of God's true servants. That is what will give rise to envy, agitation and anger! Genesis 4:6-7

TATIME:

You can't know if answers are correct or not yet, so your statement 'you have answered well is unwarranted'
What proves a concept right or wrong is when it is applied.
If it is right, it will be PRACTICALLY Apllicable but if not it will never work out fine within those trying to apply it! James 2:18-26

God is a spirit but he totally differs from the holy spirit which is his active force!

Man is a living creature,he does certain things with different parts of his body :
Hand ~is to carry, give and work for good purposes.
Leg ~is to walk, kick or run.
Eye ~is to see
Ear ~is to listen
Brain ~is to think

Unlike mortal man,Jehovah accomplish all his own purposes by means of his holy spirit, he doesn't need to live his throne before doing anything.
Other spirits move from one place to another before accomplishing their purposes! Mark 5:11 compared to Job 1:7

It's Jehovah's holy spirit that affected over 120 persons at Pentecost {Act 2:1-4} making them to do something strange!
So Jehovah is a person but the holy spirit is NOT a person.
Most trinitarians concludes that since Jesus used an adverb for the holy spirit { John 14:26} Jesus also did the same with 'Wisdom' of course WISDOM is not a person! Luke 7:35

Thanks brother, i was at the meetings.

shadeyinka:

There is no single scripture that says Jehovah stopped DIRECTLY relating to humans by Himself. In fact here is what the Bible says
Heb 1:1-2:
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, Has in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"
God in the PAST spoke to the Father's by the prophets NOW has spoken to us by His son says the Scripture. Hence your theory is unfounded.
You make God look so powerless that you portray Him as one who flees on seeing sin. But that's is not true!
Job 1:6-9:
"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said to Satan, From where come you? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. And the LORD said to Satan, Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that fears God, and eschews evil? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Does Job fear God for nothing?"
If Jehovah God can interact with the father of lies and sin, how much more those He created in His own likeness!
If Jehovah God can appear to Moses within the Fire and as an "angel of the Lord", is it impossible for God to appear as man to humans?
Exo 3:2:
"And the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the middle of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed."
Acts 7:30:
"And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush."
Look at this two Scriptures speaking about the same event. I guess you should look it up in the NWT
Then the NWT should replace the name of Jehovah with that of Jesus throughout the old testament. This evidence honestly is too strong to be waived away. And the Scriptures never taught the @bolded.
No Sir!
Is Jehovah not Different from Jesus?
Jehovah is the Personal name of God isn't it?
Your NWT abounds with Jehovah dealing with man throughout the Scriptures. There were just a few passages where Jehovah appeared as the "Angel of Jehovah" or as "a Man" or "within Fire" or "as a voice".
The bolded is wrong sir!
Exo 5:1:
"And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus said the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast to me in the wilderness."
Pharaoh didn't see Moses as a god.
This is what Jehovah God said:
Exo 7:1:
"And the LORD said to Moses, See, I have made you a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet."
What does this Scripture mean? Pharaoh should worship Moses? No!

Like you've heard from my brother, any application that's not yielding lasting benefit is surely wrong!
Moses spoke to Pharaoh and asked for something really difficult for the Egyptian King to comply, of course both of them grew up in the palace like Egyptian princes but for Pharaoh to release all his hard working slaves to Moses sounds too costly a demand!
So God empowered Moses like a god in order that all Egyptian gods were rendered helpless before Moses. Pharaoh can't see any visible god except Moses that is why he{Pharaoh} kept proving stubborn, otherwise he would have released Israelites if he could grasp that it is the most powerful spirit that's demanding their release.
So to Pharaoh and the Egyptians there is no JEHOVAH but Moses who has suddenly become a powerful god mightier than Pharaoh who also was believed to be a god on his own!

shadeyinka:
Good morning my Brother, how was your night?[/b]

Haaa!
Please i never saw this part of your post.
Well we're friends Sir as in neighbours but as brothers NO we're not brothers!
There are three factors that could make us brothers
(1) Blood~ this means we come from the same lineage like family relations.
(2) Business~ this means we are partners in business so we will always think alike for the progress of our business.
(3) Faith~ this means we are of the same line of thought regarding sacred services.

You and i are neither related of the three, and the factor JWs cherish most is when we're related by FAITH! Matthew 12:46-50 compared to Galatians 6:10

So until we agree on the same line of thought, we're like social media friends or neighbours, but NOT brothers!

Maximus69:
Like you've heard from my brother, any application that's not yielding lasting benefit is surely wrong!
Moses spoke to Pharaoh and asked for something really difficult for the Egyptian King to comply, of course both of them grew up in the palace like Egyptian princes but for Pharaoh to release all his hard working slaves to Moses sounds too costly a demand!
So God empowered Moses like a god in order that all Egyptian gods were rendered helpless before Moses. Pharaoh can't see any visible god except Moses that is why he{Pharaoh} kept proving stubborn, otherwise he would have released Israelites if he could grasp that it is the most powerful spirit that's demanding their release.
So to Pharaoh and the Egyptians there is no JEHOVAH but Moses who has suddenly become a powerful god mightier than Pharaoh who also was believed to be a god on his own!

See Shadeyinka giving you both logic and scriptural answers only for you and your brothers to say there He can't answer or dosnt have an answer . And like always, you avoided the Logic he is showing you which would have made Jehovah according to your own Bible same as Jesus. But as usual, your mind has been programmed.

Lol, Robot.

Shadeyinka, God bless you sir for dishing out the Truth. But like scriptures says, letter killeth. This guy's knew what you are saying is with strong value and Truth.


But like have been saying about Robots, A Robot is wired in some pattern and won't accept any other.

But hopely, when this guy's encounter the Spirit of Truth, then this long Deception will cease.


My Husband did some Grt research work in Robotics in those days, I learnt alot about programming as he used to tell me in layman language. I can't but agree that Am seeing the practicals here.


Cloned Homo Sapiens.......... Sigmund Feud says it all, its all about the mind. The spiritual fight is a fight of the mind, no wonder Satan majored on the mind.


Brother Shadeyinka, you can't win these guys. I think you have tried enough. Just pray for them and leave them.

Shalom

nutarious:

See Shadeyinka giving you both logic and scriptural answers only for you and your brothers to say there He can't answer or dosnt have an answer . And like always, you avoided the Logic he is showing you which would have made Jehovah according to your own Bible same as Jesus. But as usual, your mind has been programmed.
Lol, Robot.
Shadeyinka, God bless you sir for dishing out the Truth. But like scriptures says, letter killeth. This guy's knew what you are saying is with strong value and Truth.
But like have been saying about Robots, A Robot is wired in some pattern and won't accept any other.
But hopely, when this guy's encounter the Spirit of Truth, then this long Deception will cease.
My Husband did some Grt research work in Robotics in those days, I learnt alot about programming as he used to tell me in layman language. I can't but agree that Am seeing the practicals here.
Cloned Homo Sapiens.......... Sigmund Feud says it all, its all about the mind. The spiritual fight is a fight of the mind, no wonder Satan majored on the mind.
Brother Shadeyinka, you can't win these guys. I think you have tried enough. Just pray for them and leave them.
Shalom

Thanks Sir/Ma!
I think my brother Tatime have answered Shadeyinka and it's like what Tatime said is clear and understandable.
But perhaps you can't grasp what he said, let me break it down for you.

Arguments and counter explanations on doctrines will never end,
Question~ what will prove that a GROUP of persons are gaining divine approval?
Answer~ how applicable is their concept and it's lasting benefits!
Please Sir/Ma Jehovah's Witnesses have been applying the concept for over a century now and they're bearing the fruit befitting the holy spirit. So if you know of any group that is also applying your trinity concept to the benefit of adherents like JWs, try to present it so that everyone can SEE the GROUP just like the whole world can see and feel the activities of Jehovah's Witnesses! Matthew 5:14-16

Maximus69:
Thanks Sir/Ma!
I think my brother Tatime have answered Shadeyinka and it's like what Tatime said is clear and understandable.
But perhaps you can't grasp what he said, let me break it down for you.

Arguments and counter explanations on doctrines will never end,
Question~ what will prove that a GROUP of persons are gaining divine approval?
Answer~ how applicable is their concept and it's lasting benefits!
Please Sir/Ma Jehovah's Witnesses have been applying the concept for over a century now and they're bearing the fruit befitting the holy spirit. So if you know of any group that is also applying your trinity concept to the benefit of adherents like JWs, try to present it so that everyone can SEE the GROUP just like the whole world can see and feel the activities of Jehovah's Witnesses! Matthew 5:14-16

Fruit Befitting the Holy Spirit

Faith that's just two century old to Faith established by Christ and Apostles two millennium.

TATIME:

You can't know if answers are correct or not yet, so your statement 'you have answered well is unwarranted'
What proves a concept right or wrong is when it is applied.
If it is right, it will be PRACTICALLY Apllicable but if not it will never work out fine within those trying to apply it! James 2:18-26

God is a spirit but he totally differs from the holy spirit which is his active force!

Man is a living creature,he does certain things with different parts of his body :
Hand ~is to carry, give and work for good purposes.
Leg ~is to walk, kick or run.
Eye ~is to see
Ear ~is to listen
Brain ~is to think

Unlike mortal man,Jehovah accomplish all his own purposes by means of his holy spirit, he doesn't need to live his throne before doing anything.
Other spirits move from one place to another before accomplishing their purposes! Mark 5:11 compared to Job 1:7

It's Jehovah's holy spirit that affected over 120 persons at Pentecost {Act 2:1-4} making them to do something strange!
So Jehovah is a person but the holy spirit is NOT a person.
Most trinitarians concludes that since Jesus used an adverb for the holy spirit { John 14:26} Jesus also did the same with 'Wisdom' of course WISDOM is not a person! Luke 7:35

Look at the bolded: are you insinuating that the Holy Spirit is just an appendage of God like the arms, mouth, ears and legs are to man?. If that is correct, then the Holy Spirit cannot be a force as you have been taught.

It is too easy for me to prove that the Holy Spirit isn't just a Force but a personality. A force is inanimate and emotionless: isn't it.
You, knowing that God IS a Spirit still choose to alienate the Holy Spirit from God by saying that He is just an active force.

I will show you Scriptures to show that the Holy Spirit isn't just an active Force as you have been taught

There are three distinct characteristics of a personality
a. Must have a Will/Volition
b. Must have an Emotion
c. Must have an Intellect
A force is just an effort applied on an object. A force is inanimate and cannot exist without a force producing source

1. The Holy Spirit Speaks:
Acts 8:29:
"Then the Spirit said to Philip, Go near, and join yourself to this chariot."

Acts 10:19:
"While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said to him, Behold, three men seek you."

Rev 14:13:
"And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from now on: Yes, said the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them."
2. The Holy Spirit Has emotion:
Eph 4:30:
"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby you are sealed to the day of redemption."

Rom 15:30
"Now I beseech you, brothers, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that you strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;"
3. He makes intercession for the saints

Rom 8:27:
"And he that searches the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because he makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God."

4. He has a Will (He decides what to do)
1Cor 12:11:
"But all these works that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."

Acts 16:6:
"Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,"


5. You can sin against Him
Mat 12:31-32:
"Why I say to you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven to men. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

Acts 5:3-4:
"But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not your own? and after it was sold, was it not in your own power? why have you conceived this thing in your heart? you have not lied to men, but to God."

How can one lie to a force?


6. He teaches and instructs:

Neh 9:20:
"You gave also your good spirit to instruct them, and withheld not your manna from their mouth, and gave them water for their thirst."

Luk 12:12:
"For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what you ought to say."

John 14:26:
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you."

Do you know any non Personality who has an ability to teach?

TATIME:
As i said, you can never know if a cencept is right or wrong. It is after the application that you will be able to SEE whether it's right or wrong.
For instance, the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and other Jewish Rabbis claims God's holy spirit is working in their midst, but which group was bearing the FRUIT of the holy spirit? ONLY the most vilified GROUP back then called Christians!

So try to apply the concept and watch all those doing so, if truthfully God's holy spirit is revealing the truth to them they will bear the FRUIT befitting that spirit but if not they will just continue to argue within themselves whereas they'll stand at a distance SEEING that God's holy spirit is working in the midst of God's true servants. That is what will give rise to envy, agitation and anger! Genesis 4:6-7

Please just one Scriptures to validate the bolded!

And, you didn't raise any issue against my submission.

Maximus69:
Like you've heard from my brother, any application that's not yielding lasting benefit is surely wrong!
Moses spoke to Pharaoh and asked for something really difficult for the Egyptian King to comply, of course both of them grew up in the palace like Egyptian princes but for Pharaoh to release all his hard working slaves to Moses sounds too costly a demand!
So God empowered Moses like a god in order that all Egyptian gods were rendered helpless before Moses. Pharaoh can't see any visible god except Moses that is why he{Pharaoh} kept proving stubborn, otherwise he would have released Israelites if he could grasp that it is the most powerful spirit that's demanding their release.
So to Pharaoh and the Egyptians there is no JEHOVAH but Moses who has suddenly become a powerful god mightier than Pharaoh who also was believed to be a god on his own!

My post which you responded to refuted two issues you raised.

1. That Jehovah stopped DIRECTLY relating to humans by Himself since creation
2. That God avoided man because of sin.
3. That Pharaoh knew Moses as the God who is snatching his slaves out of his hands

These three was refuted and this your counter has really nothing to do with the preceding post

Maximus69:

Haaa!
Please i never saw this part of your post.
Well we're friends Sir as in neighbours but as brothers NO we're not brothers!
There are three factors that could make us brothers
(1) Blood~ this means we come from the same lineage like family relations.
(2) Business~ this means we are partners in business so we will always think alike for the progress of our business.
(3) Faith~ this means we are of the same line of thought regarding sacred services.

You and i are neither related of the three, and the factor JWs cherish most is when we're related by FAITH! Matthew 12:46-50 compared to Galatians 6:10

So until we agree on the same line of thought, we're like social media friends or neighbours, but NOT brothers!

I couldn't help but laugh on reading this because only a demon would vehemently reject me calling him brother. You've never had to cast any out have you? They can be funny at times with their response. Of course they know that I am of the light and they are of darkness!

When you travel out of the country, every Nigerian is your brother isn't it. To me, you are a brother (not in Christ) but as a fellow Nigerian who I sincerely this morning wish the best for.

Mr Maximus, you aren't my enemy either: you are my neighbor!
And therefore irrespective of your rejection of "brother" and I don't know if you'll prefer I call you "sister", I can only apply the instruction of Jesus

Mar 12:31:
"And the second is like, namely this, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is none other commandment greater than these."

With that again, I say good afternoon my brother!

nutarious:


See Shadeyinka giving you both logic and scriptural answers only for you and your brothers to say there He can't answer or dosnt have an answer . And like always, you avoided the Logic he is showing you which would have made Jehovah according to your own Bible same as Jesus. But as usual, your mind has been programmed.

Lol, Robot.

Shadeyinka, God bless you sir for dishing out the Truth. But like scriptures says, letter killeth. This guy's knew what you are saying is with strong value and Truth.


But like have been saying about Robots, A Robot is wired in some pattern and won't accept any other.

But hopely, when this guy's encounter the Spirit of Truth, then this long Deception will cease.


My Husband did some Grt research work in Robotics in those days, I learnt alot about programming as he used to tell me in layman language. I can't but agree that Am seeing the practicals here.


Cloned Homo Sapiens.......... Sigmund Feud says it all, its all about the mind. The spiritual fight is a fight of the mind, no wonder Satan majored on the mind.


Brother Shadeyinka, you can't win these guys. I think you have tried enough. Just pray for them and leave them.

Shalom

Thank you Sister!

It is impossible to win a Jehovah's witness by any force of Logics, Reasoning or Scriptures. It takes only mercy from God for the force of their enslavement to be broken.
But this is also for those who don't know about the JWs Doctrines. Here, it gets forced out for all to see.

For them, the Watchtower organisation leadership Authority out that of the Scriptures. Every scripture is seen only from the lens of watchtower leaders opinions.

shadeyinka:

I couldn't help but laugh on reading this because only a demon would vehemently reject me calling him brother. You've never had to cast any out have you? They can be funny at times with their response. Of course they know that I am of the light and they are of darkness!

When you travel out of the country, every Nigerian is your brother isn't it. To me, you are a brother (not in Christ) but as a fellow Nigerian who I sincerely this morning wish the best for.

Mr Maximus, you aren't my enemy either: you are my neighbor!
And therefore irrespective of your rejection of "brother" and I don't know if you'll prefer I call you "sister", I can only apply the instruction of Jesus

Mar 12:31:
"And the second is like, namely this, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is none other commandment greater than these."

With that again, I say good afternoon my brother!

You know i've told you my mind on arguments.
We only make presentations and take our leave, if our presentation sounds appealing, the house holder will invite us for more wisdom but if not we'll found someone else!
So instead of arguing, just fetch those whose concept is PRACTICALLY applicable and beneficial within the adherents, that's all!
As for being my brother, we follow Jesus' footstep CLOSELY. He never acknowledge Mary and his blood brother as his real family but only those with whom he shared the same faith! Matthew 12:46-50

As a Nigerian living next to me, you're my neighbour NOT my brother. While a JW from any part of the world is my brother in the faith, you remain my neighbour and of course i must love you as i love myself but NOT as much as i will love my brother IN THE FAITH! Galatians 6:10

Please go and apply the concept you know and find brothers amongst those in agreement with you, as for me i've got over 8,000,000 brothers and sisters globally having the same line of thought as Jehovah's Witnesses. You are surely my neighbour as in a human being with my neighbourhood but certainly NOT my brother Sir!

nutarious:


Fruit Befitting the Holy Spirit

Faith that's just two century old to Faith established by Christ and Apostles two millennium.

That's exactly what we're saying here Ma.
Do you truly know how the faith of the early Christians was shaped?
What are the works that God's holy spirit did within the first century Christians that you're seeing today?
Can you mention the name of a single religious group{Church} exhibiting such spirit?
If you truly believe in Jesus Christ, i think you won't assume he is dead but alive. So if surely he is alive today there should be at least one religious group within which Jesus' attributes will be clearly seen as he said 'You will be my witnesses'. Act 1:8
Sorry Ma, no be by force say make we join una dey worship some inactive Jesus wey him followers no fit agree with themsef!
Go worship your god make we sef go dey worship our own, no be fight biko!

shadeyinka:

Thank you Sister!

It is impossible to win a Jehovah's witness by any force of Logics, Reasoning or Scriptures. It takes only mercy from God for the force of their enslavement to be broken.
But this is also for those who don't know about the JWs Doctrines. Here, it gets forced out for all to see.

For them, the Watchtower organisation leadership Authority out that of the Scriptures. Every scripture is seen only from the lens of watchtower leaders opinions.

The discussion wasn't about winning over each other by arguments Sir.
Our agreement was based on presentation of what each person believes.
You claim to be ECWA yet you said the church doctrine don't define you, i am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and of course our faith is ONE! Ephesians 4:5
I'm more than convinced that it wasn't about winning but presenting each others beliefs for other followers to grab one or two things.
You even changed the title from 'Note' which befits our agreement to 'discussion on doctrine between a Christian {ECWA whose belief is not stable with any religious group} and a Jehovah's Witness whose organization teaches the same thing GLOBALLY! 1Corinthians 1:10, Ephesians 4:3
Now you're talking of winning over, abeg over to where Sir?
Hope not beliefs that can't be found in anywhere? Isaiah 57:20
Your madam said we're robots and it suits us so far we know that our Faith works {James 2:18-26} and is powerful enough to unite people from all races {Hebrew 4:12} as one happy global family of worshipers with one single line of thought! Isaiah 2:2-4
You're blessed Sir!

Maximus69:
That's exactly what we're saying here Ma.
Do you truly know how the faith of the early Christians was shaped?
What are the works that God's holy spirit did within the first century Christians that you're seeing today?
Can you mention the name of a single religious group{Church} exhibiting such spirit?
If you truly believe in Jesus Christ, i think you won't assume he is dead but alive. So if surely he is alive today there should be at least one religious group within which Jesus' attributes will be clearly seen as he said 'You will be my witnesses'. Act 1:8
Sorry Ma, no be by force say make we join una dey worship some inactive Jesus wey him followers no fit agree with themsef!
Go worship your god make we sef go dey worship our own, no be fight biko!

Did she believe in the Bible at all?
*She married an atheist, meaning she never cared about Bible's admonition regarding marrying ONLY Christians! 1Corinthians 7:39
*She has no husband to teach her what Christianity truly means, since Apostle Paul said Christian women should learn from their Christian husbands! 1Corinthians 14:35, Ephesians 5:24, 1Timothy 2:12

If she is not a Christian, how will she know that she supposed to remain silent when men are talking about scriptural doctrines?
Please Maximus, this is why Jesus said we keep quiet so as not to throw precious things like sacred matters before such persons like DOGS! Matthew 7:6

Maximus69:
The discussion wasn't about winning over each other by arguments Sir.
Our agreement was based on presentation of what each person believes.
You claim to be ECWA yet you said the church doctrine don't define you, i am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and of course our faith is ONE! Ephesians 4:5
I'm more than convinced that it wasn't about winning but presenting each others beliefs for other followers to grab one or two things.
You even changed the title from 'Note' which befits our agreement to 'discussion on doctrine between a Christian {ECWA whose belief is not stable with any religious group} and a Jehovah's Witness whose organization teaches the same thing GLOBALLY! 1Corinthians 1:10, Ephesians 4:3
Now you're talking of winning over, abeg over to where Sir?
Hope not beliefs that can't be found in anywhere? Isaiah 57:20
Your madam said we're robots and it suits us so far we know that our Faith works {James 2:18-26} and is powerful enough to unite people from all races {Hebrew 4:12} as one happy global family of worshipers with one single line of thought! Isaiah 2:2-4
You're blessed Sir!

As far as I'm concerned, the note from nutarious wasn't directed at you. It was to me, and I have replied her!

As per the earlier heading : note!
I didn't recall I took permission nor consultation from you. The topic was such to prevent external interest in the discussion until we had finished our Question and answer session.

You know I told you before that your faith is very similar to the Brotherhood of the Cross and Star and the Mormons. All the adherents swallow whatever their governing body churn down the line, hence nothing is strange with your claim.

Maximus69:
You know i've told you my mind on arguments.
We only make presentations and take our leave, if our presentation sounds appealing, the house holder will invite us for more wisdom but if not we'll found someone else!
So instead of arguing, just fetch those whose concept is PRACTICALLY applicable and beneficial within the adherents, that's all!
As for being my brother, we follow Jesus' footstep CLOSELY. He never acknowledge Mary and his blood brother as his real family but only those with whom he shared the same faith! Matthew 12:46-50

As a Nigerian living next to me, you're my neighbour NOT my brother. While a JW from any part of the world is my brother in the faith, you remain my neighbour and of course i must love you as i love myself but NOT as much as i will love my brother IN THE FAITH! Galatians 6:10

Please go and apply the concept you know and find brothers amongst those in agreement with you, as for me i've got over 8,000,000 brothers and sisters globally having the same line of thought as Jehovah's Witnesses. You are surely my neighbour as in a human being with my neighbourhood but certainly NOT my brother Sir!

Since you don't want to be addressed as brother, good evening my Sister!

I hope this suits you better!

shadeyinka:

Since you don't want to be addressed as brother, good evening my Sister!

I hope this suits you better!

Whatever Sir, WHATEVER!
I've made myself clear enough because Jesus will never agree that a Pharisee is his brother since they're not of the same father! John 8:19, 44
As long as you believe that my Jesus differs from your Jesus, how on earth are we brothers?
If i say you're confused, you will will start cursing, insulting and abusing me.
Whereas the TRUTH is you and i aren't related by blood, business nor faith therefore how exactly are you my brother?
Jehovah's Witnesses thank you for teaching me the TRUTH!