jahjehova:
my broda. Gud am. I'd also appreciate the service manual. Plz send to deleonipede@gmail.com. D one I av is german. I want 2 avoid any roadside mecho visit. Tanx bro.

aikerism: Hello Kuntash/ A.U. Hanson, pls kindly forward the english C Class soft copy of the. Manual U have to me as well. I have been trying without succeess to. Download one.my email: aikerismnj@yahoo.com
Pls help a brother out. Kaa!

aikerism: Hello Kuntash/ A.U. Hanson, pls kindly forward the english C Class soft copy of the. Manual U have to me as well. I have been trying without succeess to. Download one.my email: aikerismnj@yahoo.com
Pls help a brother out. Kaa!

Trac:

Unfortunately, I do not get status notification via e-mail when any of the threads I am following gets responded to. I use to get after a day was through but I don't get anymore. I tried to readjust settings but nothing changed. Maybe it's the server.

If the Asian designated specification, then you are good to go. In the mid-90's, Germany went bio-degradable; it was imposed by regulations. Such regulations were not in Asia or other markets. I'm not surprised that the former ECU would have been bricked (if so many changes were done). Usually, a relay gives itself up at the expense of the ECU.

Ironically, it's almost one year now and the very reason that cause me to remain on NL was cooling on an MB. Check my earliest post. I went into details concerning MB's cooling. I'd rather not re-do that but it's on this thread and I was comprehensive about it. In addition to that, I have discussed cooling on some other thread. I'm quite constrained and I can't go into details but I did explain the concept.

Furthermore, I will answer the other aspects of your question. You will need coolant. The green coolant is not what you need. Avoid it! Fluids are mechanically engineered; far from what the layman will understand but it's very true. The green coolant does nothing from my experience. Above all, it will damage the water-pump eventually.

The average running temperature should be 87degF and it isn't unusual to get up to 115degF. This mode of operation should not be without coolant installed. Running your vehicle at the aforementioned heat ranges stated will warp your heads. Some models have very small clearances that machining wouldn't be possible.

If you cannot find a hybrid-organic coolant, whatever you get would be okay (minus the greeny), provided the replacement interval is shorter. This, I state is what I would do if I was in your shoes. This way, the fluid maintains a near-new state of health. I hope you got my point of view.

Sometimes, a jumpy guage needle is caused by sulphur build-up in the gas tank. You'll need a bottle of techron to take care of that. If that doesn't resolve it, it is a faulty fuel-pressure-sending-unit. A full tank and incorrect guage reading as stated, I am rest-assured that you have a faulty fuel-pressure-sending-unit. It wouldn't be a bad idea to get a oil-pressure-sending-unit as well and replace them. The parts are not expensive. These are typical MB maintenance routines that are done 15 or more years from the date of production.

All the best:

kuntash:

Hello Trac... I am sure you meant between 87degC and 115DegC ( as in centigrade celsius)


Again, where can one get this techron in this country sef? I have heard lots of goodies about that Techron.


Just to add from my experience and what I had read on Benz forums, the W202 fuel tank does NOT need excessive filling with fuel, its best to always stop at the first click of the nozzle,
I noticed improper readings when I was filling always to the brim (using my camry experience) I didnt knw this was harmful to the gauge... but since I had stopped, its readings have somewhat return to normal, but not as always accurate and reliable as designed ...

I have also noticed the same scenario with the BMW 3 series,


so I had resulted to stopping refill at the first nozzle click!!

au.hanson:



The email notification is a major issue now in nairaland, it could be the traffic is more than the capacity of the server
Thanks for the info on the German law on bio-degradable.Next time b4 any such law they shld consult us in naija...

For your info on Mercedes Benz cooling,i would love to read it, hope to find it else u would have to send me the link to save me the trouble, even though i have already resolved that issue. see " https://www.nairaland.com/1087033/reliability-c180/1#14256405 "

For the fuel gauage wahala, i'll find techron first of all, if it dosent worked out , then i'll have to change the oil-pressure-sending-unit.But pls before then, where is this unit situated in the car?

Finally, beacuse of the outrageous price of mobil 1(0w40), and in a 4 litre gallon for about N8,500, can total quartz 9000(0w40) or (5w40),in a 5 litre gallon that cost about N8,000.00 be used to replaced mobil 1, and for the same duration of like 12-15 months in my benz c180 and benz 190?

Expecting your reply, thanks

yungboss: Trac,
thanx for exposing nether areas, incredible insight it must be aknowledged! i've followed this thread on every page...i will definitely go the 'benz' way again at some time in future hence my keen attention.
Good thread kuntash...

Trac: You are driving a car not an 18-wheeler or a super-duty pick-up truck. 

20w-50 is not an approved oil for any MB gas engine mounted on a sedan or 4x4. The AMG's never use the 20w-50 weight and they are high power and torque output.


You have to consider the weight of the oil at 100degC and not as you pour the fluid from the bottle.  At 100degC, the viscosity is at 50.  That is too heavy and thick for your oil pump, too thick for the upper profiles of your crankcase and will not flow to the hard-to-reach areas (tight restrictions) including pores within the crankcase.  Besides that, you will have drag in your crankcase which will lead to parasitic loss.  You also waste fuel too and will ride as smooth.  You will also damage the rear main seals that mate the engine to the transmission.  For the 20w, you are going to have difficulty in cold start.

Your MB engine formula requires specification 229.3.  You can upgrade to specification 229.5 and exploit the extended oil interval change.  I replace my oils on all my cars after 15 months and for years with Mobil 1 SuperSyn 0w-30 and 0w-40. I don't use Mobil 1 anymore for personal reasons but it's what MB recommends.  Since it is your daily driver, you can reduce the interval life since it is driven everyday and your environmental conditions differ.  The grade you should use should be 0w-40, 5w-40 and in convenient cases, 10w-40.  I am not sure about the 30 viscosity but it should state it on your dipstick.  Look for Mobil 1 SuperSyn or Mobil 1 AdvanceSyn and at the back, it will state the 229.5 specification requirement.  You shouldn't use anything less than a 229.3 spec oil.  You may not find a 229.3 spec for it has been superceded by 229.5.  One note to take into consideration is 229.3 or 229.5 and not 229.31 or 229.51.  The latter (Bleep.x1) is for diesels).

To counter some arguments -- some people believe as a car ages, thicker oil is required.  That is totally false.  If you have leaks, mechanical repair is required.  The first note to consider is that no one makes engines like MB.  On the M111 engine and all Mercedes engines set up on the HFM injection system, ignition control and fuel injection has been unified to one module, so the coil are mounted directly on the plugs eliminating a distributor.  The innovation is smart and has adaptive technology within its configuration and its adaptive nature allows it to compensate for engine wear throughout the course of its engine life keeping it running like new throughout its life. 

Above all, the bottle must explicitly state 229.3 or 229.5 specification.  Anything short of this will not meet MB's specification for high temperature high shear strength.  Also, the xw-30 weight is not recommended.

au.hanson:


Well spoken Trac, thanks for this educative info, its so informative .

However , what is that vital component that was taken away from mobil 1 that made you turn away from it? Does that affect the durability of the oil, or tear and wear in the engine? Based on this factor, can you still recommend Mobil 1 to someone?

Also, what brand oil do you now use for your MB(Mercedes Benz)? Can it be obtainable here, and how long does it last before next oil change , does it protect like mobil1?

Trac:

You are welcome.

An antiwear element was removed or reduced due to environmental regulations (to be more environmental-friendly). Mobil One 0w-40 was in two configurations; Fully Synthethic and SuperSyn. I think the SuperSyn superceded the Fully Synthetic but both were sold in the stores at the time. Supersyn guaranteed 15,000 miles and it had reference to AMG's. Now, there isn't any super, the fully-version only says "exceeds MB's Sheet 229.3/5" and no 15,000 mile guarantee or AMG reference. There is no doubt that Mobil compensated for it but I'm no chemist. Other brands may have been affected; not just Mobil 1 to meet stringent environmental-friendly standards.

The durability of the oil is not affected. Mobil isn't guaranteeing extended intervals as they did before. I don't have the technical documentation either for the changes. I take reciprocating interactions very serious. Lubricants have always been of great interests and caution to me. I use oil that has greater poly-alphaolefine than M1. It's the base element and it is also very expensive. I use amsoil. You won't find that where you are because it isn't sold in stores but through mere people but expensive. It's a family-owned company. You have to find an authorised retailer and purchase in large amounts. I have a retailer in the next city and I buy it from his home and I get as much information as I can from him. I get to see independent tests and they are notorised, thus official.

Will I recommend M1 to anyone? If you are driving a Mercedes, that's what I'll tell them to get or the other approved MB oils. If it meets or exceeds 229.5, then they should get it. It's still standards all MB model lineup (as of today).

M1's are good; there are alternatives. On the list of MB approved alternatives, some outperformed M1's.

au.hanson:


Well! thanks Trac, i bought mobil 1 today from one of the biggest Mobil filling station in PH(to avoid fake product), but the price was very ridiculous, N9,000.00 for a 4 gallon, and N2,600.00 for a 1 litre gallon. I knew they are cheating but then i couldn't change anything than to just buy it .The only thing is that i felt fulfilled that i bought it, after carving out time from my very busy schedule, as i have to travel miles and under the worst hold up to obtain it losing a lot of gas in the process.

My concern now is , how would i know when to change this oil , as in when it'll be due for the next oil change with all these modifications by mobil and the no more guarantee on the extended period as i cant readily find another suitable alternative over here to trade off?

Trac:

Edit: I partially re-wrote this post.

In all the cheating, I believe it is still better than having to replace your oil every two months or 2,000 miles. Personally speaking, you do not have much to worry about.

I took some time to find out the change of formulation and the reason to it; this along with the integrity in comparison to the former. On their account of testimony, the reason for change was for the benefit of pollution control equipments in your vehicle. The old formulation risked damaging emission components under certain conditions. Nothing changed in the formulae except for the culprit that was reduced to safe level. Mobil 1 has poly-alphaolefine and that's also justify spending such money on it and the quality.

According to Mobil with respect to the product, the oil will go 15,000. However, if you have an engine that has sludge in it or heavy deposits/contaminants, you are to replace 3,000 miles or shorter.


Long distance drives are also beneficial to oil; less stress on it. Stop-and-go puts more stress on your engine than highway driving.

There is a note of caution: every few months, you have to inspect the oil through the dipstick. Ensure that the level is ok. On a Mercedes, you check the oil by running the engine for two minutes and then stopping the ignition; then you take your reading shortly afterwards. Contrary to how other vehicles are read. Top it if it's a little low. This means that you should have a quart extra. You can always get that later. -- and that's after many months.

au.hanson:


Trac, i really appreciate these, thanks a lot.

However, concerning checking the oil in Mercedes, precisely in my Benz 190 if you start and stop before checking the oil the gauge level will drop drastically and u will end up having an overgauged oil if you must follow that, except if it is transmission fluid you are gauging.I hope you didn't mean transmission fluid? Though i have not tested this yet with my c class, hoping to do that tomorrow morning, thank you very much

Trac:

Hanson,

What I told you is not from me but Mercedes' statement of operational procedure on how you gauge the oil level. Other cars will follow what you stated. After two minutes of engine circulation is when readings should be taken from a cold engine. This is the only accurate measure to gauge oil levels on a flat surface.

au.hanson:


Oh men! then we have been doing it the wrong way all these while..this is time to change, thanks

Tested on my c class yesternight and it worked perfectly, after having bought another mobil 1 quartz during the day, it gulp about 400ml extra. Thanks dude, the guru!!

Gods-Son:
This thread has been very informative, most pple still have the MB as a car that guzzles fuel and its very hard to maintain...
I Just sold my 406 and I want to venture in to the MB family and since I am new I want to start with the C class pls I will need a recommendation, am an average income earner and am thinkingof 1998 to 2000 models pls wich would serve me more economically and then one that has less issues with its electronics and general maintenance..pls Ɣ☺U̶̲̥̅̊я usedful responses will be highly appreciated...

guttentag: Plz can somebody help me out, my machanic told me that wires in my car has expire and he worked on it, he later said that the brainbox is faulty, it was replace now the car is jerking while on motion, the fire is sizing and the car will off.
Pls guys I will really appreciate your assistance

Gods-Son:
This thread has been very informative, most pple still have the MB as a car that guzzles fuel and its very hard to maintain...
I Just sold my 406 and I want to venture in to the MB family and since I am new I want to start with the C class pls I will need a recommendation, am an average income earner and am thinkingof 1998 to 2000 models pls wich would serve me more economically and then one that has less issues with its electronics and general maintenance..pls Ɣ☺U̶̲̥̅̊я usedful responses will be highly appreciated...

kuntash:


Go for that year of C-class, they are kool, just as Trac stated, I dont like the kompressor type, the 280 might be a better deal for you, as most of the maintenance are almost d same, oil, fuel etc

guttentag: Plz can somebody help me out, my machanic told me that wires in my car has expire and he worked on it, he later said that the brainbox is faulty, it was replace now the car is jerking while on motion, the fire is sizing and the car will off.
Pls guys I will really appreciate your assistance

au.hanson:


Now 4 things can cause the kind of problem you have envisaged:

1. ECU related(bad ECU, poor/expired wires and or faulty control relay )
2. Faulty or wrongly positioned C.P.S ( crank position sensor)
3. Fuel pump relay and ovp at the trunk of your car , where you have the 2 fuses
4. O2, oxygen sensor
5. Camshaft sensor if fitted in your own

1. Dont trust any repair wiring,they cannot always be thorough, besides , the wire may be badly damaged beyond repair. Simply buy another one, you may get the Asian type(a fairly used type is less than 20k) , these ones does not expired, because they dont follow the biodegradability laws of Germany etc that causes these wire to expire overtime.Simply follow the orientation of the one there, unclip them all. Most importantly , make sure you bought the right wire for your vehicle, and clip this one to replace the old one. Be mindful of the orientation for the auto transmission , If your car is the manual type simply disconnect the auto transmission wire and clips from your newly bought wire.

Since you have already replaced the brain box ,then you need to test your control relay with a normal vehicle to exonorate '1' above , if that works well on the vehicle then you can move down to "2" But before then , simply open you fuse box area and unscrew the fuse box with a star head acrew driver to where you have the control relay and other components. this is quite simple. Dont be afraid

2. You can trace the your crank shaft position sensor CPS, this is located behind your engine on the left hand side depending om your model. First of all make sure you disconnect your battery head, and the wire that leads to the ECU before embarking on this. Your CPS is located at the top of your starter motor, loose it and try to position it well , place it not too close nor too far to the trigger wheel, connect back your ECU(brain box) and battery and start your car again while observing any of these symptoms. If this did not work out , then replace the oxygen sensor with a new one. If things did not still work out , you can now suspect the O2 sensors. Now move to "3"

3. Test these items , your fuel pump relay and ovp in another vehicle to ascertain their good working condition, else go to your spare part dealer to buy reaplacement , Infact you even need spares of these items in your car, they dont cost at the TOKs market, but be sure you buy good ones. these little things can cause problems you never anticipate. If your problem persist, ten move to step "4"

4. Your O2 sensor would not even allow you to drive the car, if it does, it will produce very poor economy too.

your oxygen sensors are located in your exhaust system. Your exhaust system starts at the exhaust manifold on the side of the engine and ends at the tail pipe at your back bumper.

Make sure you remove your -ve battery terminal before you start this. If you are using Benz C180 like mine or C280,as you didn't mention your car type/model, your vehicle oxygen sensors are 4 of them there are two on each side of your exhaust, actually screwed into the exhaust. They are like the nose of your engine to read how rich/clean the car is running. They look are like spark plugs with wires attached to them, the wires are usually colored white black and grey with plug connections on the end. Go to your dealer store and buy the oxygen sensor socket and racket and unscrew this to replace with that one. Good luck

Jack up the right side of the car and secure on jack stands. Make sure you'll have enough room to slide well under the car, at least to where the drive shaft is over your chest.

Next remove the two bolts that hold the exhaust to the transmission and set them aside.

Now move to the rear of the car and remove the two rubber hangers from the muffler. Once you have these two hangers off you should support the muffler with the jack and move back to the center of the car to remove the middle rubber hanger.

Once the exhaust is free slowly lower it down until you have access to the two sensors. The front one required you to drop the system nearly all the way to the ground.

Here is where the C shaped box end wrench comes in handy. I don't know what those engineers were thinking but its impossible to get a normal wrench or socket on these sensors without dropping the pipes out of the car! make sure you bought the right replacement parts? Good, now cut the wires within an inch or two of where they come out of the sensor on the OLD parts obviously.

Next slip the obstruction wrench over the sensor and give it a smack with the heel of your hand or a hammer to jar the sensor loose. Once you've broken it loose it should turn out by hand. Repeat this on the other sensor, connect the wires and reinstall the exhaust hangers and you're done!


5. Now this is located at the front of your engine near the fan component to the right close to the thermostat .The black box that has the Mercedes Benz logo houses this component. Good luck

N/B always remove your negative battery head before you embark on any replacement that has to do with electrical or electronic components. Kindly let us know if this was useful to you.

Trac:

Wow!

A rule of thumb: you don't go around eliminating symptoms. That is bad ethics; very bad. A mechanic, technician or engineer worth his salt will first of all find out what caused the problem and other factors associated thereof. It is even worse if it's a fuse. This makes Mercedes cars very difficult to work on because you need at least a fair overall understanding of the gas/diesel engines to render diagnoses. To affirm what I have stated frankly, your stated troubleshooting is unrelated to the issues mentioned. It would have been better if he rounded a few people from the streets and gave them the money that he would spend for such service. It will not help the situation because none of the situation. There are certain aspects where new parts cannot be placed upon old surrounding units or alongside. You need an MB handtool for some models to replace certain parts. The ECU should never be replaced unless diagnoses prove it is dead. Crankshaft positioning sensors should never be fiddled with for these models. The same as camshafts positioning sensors. We all learn. There are certain things you will know about your car due to ownership. Above all, you still need a good mechanic because they are professionals.

His problem is from the wiring harness. The job was a bad one. To fix the issue upon a bad "foundational layout" is just a waste of time and sure enough; will get you nowhere in the long-run but incur more expenses. This is why I stated no opinion in resolving the symptoms. When that is done, any problem left can be safely eliminated.

smartchoice: any contrary or additional opinions?

Trac: Hansen,

On the contrary, I did not get you wrong. I perfectly understood you. Truthfully, I was only sharing a philosophy with you. This also is not to put you down or smear your intelligence: your solution to the problem is wrong. The areas you pointed out have nothing to do with what's going on. I know because I am talking from experience. Fuel pump relay and OVP! The car will NOT start. A bad fuel pump relay will initiate pre-starting operations and the engine will not turn. A bad OVP and car will not start at all. Same with the crank sensor. The problem is from the wiring harness incorrectly laced and certain procedures omitted not any that you have listed. If he is not careful, he will damage the ignition system and that will be very costly; in addition to many other units. The throttle body with the cruise-control assembly is what I would be worried about because that is a lot of money and mightn't be worth replacing (depending on the condition of the vehicle). If the harness was correctly fitted, smooth drivability should have been restored but the opposite was the result. The case got worse. On the other hand, if all was done well and the problem mentioned remains, it should take him no more than 25 minutes with a screwdriver; no jacking up of anything and no wrenches would be used. The check engine light shouldn't be cleared for it will clear itself. But this is rarely the case. Frankly, the situation will not change till the wiring loom has been addressed. This is an advance repair and many factors have to be considered in this kind of a repair. I'm not quoting from anyone but from experience working on cars. Neither am I a novice.

Your background is good; however you don't have an automotive background. Systems engineering cannot cross-over to automotive. Believe me, the science is deep (not mainstream at all), advanced math and stringent tolerances (approaches etc). I have a strong mechanical and automotive background (I will skip the details). For this reason, the "googlers" find my responses puzzling. So, I have been trained and also educated. I still make use of an automotive engineer for certain repairs and sometimes a mechanic because it is what they do for a living plus shop management is at their disposal; the job is done in a short period of time than hours that I do not have. Areas of specialty is important; this is where a professional outperforms you.

Diagnosis: how do you diagnose a system that you don't fully understand? From the above (the post before your last reply), a lot was spoken; besides being disjointed. Before working on any car, knowledge of how the car "thinks" and a basic understanding of every single sensor in the engine bay. If you understand MB's fuel loop cycle, your blunt answer would to get another mechanic. Anybody can "fix" a car; it's easy (as long as you can turn a wrench). Diagnosing and working with understanding is another subject matter. The weeds are separated from the grass at this "junction."

There are knowledgeable mechanics in Africa. They are just expensive. Nigerians will not pay extra for what they deem worth. A professional is still a professional. I can tell you first hand that I know a Nigerian automotive engineer and he is very knowledgeable about German cars but he is expensive. He guarantees his services and uses only genuine OEM. There are others like him but everyone wants cheap services.

Let me advice you: the cam positioning sensor on many Mercedes should not be touched at all. If you test and it proves to have failed, advance repair is needed as soon as possible which will require the engine to be disassembled. This isn't prominent to the C Class you drive. Nevertheless, the rule still applies. This is with Mercedes.

Secondly, leave the OVP alone. There are certain tests for that. It is meant for qualified professionals to diagnose that. When you have an OVP problem, chances are you may never know it is the OVP. A car with OVP related problems will not be spending the night with its owner. Diagnosing is not easy in this situation and in my opinion, very clumsy (if service is to be excellent). Do not disturb it as well, it is very fragile and it is air sealed. The ECU's never go bad. As a systems engineer, you are familiar with PLC's and their inherent capabilities (that should say it all). Certain things will give itself up at the expense of the ECU.

On newer Benzes, hard-coding is requires for certain replacements.


Note: This is a scripted text. Your person was not debased. If the text does seem to appear otherwise from cordial, re-read it from a different perspective.

au.hanson:


All is well Trace, but i bet you, in Nigeria , ECU go bad. Mine went bad, i tested it with the new one side by side. My neighbours' went bad

I may not have an automotive background, but i make sure i discover my ride than anyone else would.. just discovered my Cclass, now i diagnose it and fix almost everything right,(DIY)that's who i am. I have this confidence in her when i do it myself, because i'm careful with her. I'm not saying i wont patronise mechanic, but no more to my detriment, rather, with strict supervision

Seun: What could be wrong when your EBS and ATS lights are on all the time, after maybe hitting a few road bumps with an car's belly?