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Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! - Religion (15) - Nairaland

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Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 12:55pm On Jul 20
solite3:
that is what I have been saying all along.

How is it different from what I've been saying?
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by solite3(m): 2:43pm On Jul 20
OkCornel:


Gbam! This I agree with...

I only need a bit more clarification on this bit you said.

"It does not contradict the gospel that salvation is by faith without works"

Since after all, a faith without works is not a saving faith...
works comes after salvation.
The works that shows that a believer is saved is the fruit of the Spirit. Jesus said a tree is know by its fruits
Luke 6:44
For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

The tree that produce good fruit is the regenerated man.

Galatians 5:22, 24 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

When a man is bornagain, the Holy Spirit takes residence in him and he his flesh is ccruified so he wil be in the spirit.
He know begins to manifest the fuit of the spirit which is the manifestsation of the holy Spirit in him.

Galatians 5:22, 24 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Those fruits are not what saved him neither is it faith, faith is just a medium fo receive God's gift of eternal life.
But those fruits shows to that he is saved.
Now james was not contradicting paul neither Jesus james simply meant that faith has works( which is the fruit of his salvation).
When someone lacks those fruits it mean he is not saved ao whatever professing faith such a one cliams to have is dead because it lacks the fruits of of a salvation and such faith can not save such a one.
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by solite3(m): 2:44pm On Jul 20
OkCornel:


How is it different from what I've been saying?
you said faith alone cannot save which is not biblical the biblical stand is that faith alone in christ is what saves but however faith has its works which cannot save but only serves as proof to men.
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 2:50pm On Jul 20
solite3:
.

Got your mention... no message
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by elated177: 3:07pm On Jul 20
LifestyleTonite:


Mumu

The passage is talking of false prophets and their fruits, not works required to be saved.

When the Bible speaks of bearing fruit, it speaks of bringing forth a disciple of our kind. A false prophet who is a bad tree will only produce bad disciples who are bad fruits.

Just as Good told Adam and Eve to produce fruits and multiply, that's the kind of fruits spoke of here. Adam and Eve produced fruits like themselves e.g Abel and Cain. A chimpanzee cannot produce a fruit that's human. Likewise, a false prophets cannot produce a good fruit i.e a good disciple, because he's a bad tree. That's why he's hewn down and thrown into the fire.

The passage is speaking of false prophets. Even from the first line in verse 15, we get the context. It is not speaking of works based salvation. tongue


For your erroneous assertions here, read these.

Luke 3:7-8 John said to the crowds coming to be baptised by him, 'You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? PRODUCE FRUIT IN KEEPING WITH REPENTANCE. And do not begin to say to yourselves, "We have Abraham as our father." For I tell that out of these stones YHVH can raise up children for Abraham. The axe has been laid at the root of the trees, AND EVERY TREE THAT DOES NOT PRODUCE GOOD FRUIT WILL BE CUT DOWN AND THROWN INTO THE FIRE.

Contrary to your postulations, bearing good fruits does not mean producing or raising disciples like yourself.

Nope!

It explicitly means doing righteous acts...living righteous life by doing acts associated with righteousness. Which actually is obedience to the Commandments of YHVH.

What else can a tree bear if not its own kind of fruits. However, whether such fruits are good and can be eaten or spoilt/rotten and cannot be eaten is a different case entirely. An apple cannot produce mango and vise versa.

How did John the Baptist admonish them to bear fruit? Let's see.

Luke 3:10-14 'What should we do?' the crowd asked. John answered, 'Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.' Even tax collectors came to be baptised. 'Teacher,' they asked, 'what should we do?' 'Don't collect any more than you are required to,' he told them. Then some soldiers asked him, 'And what should we do?' He replied, 'Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely - be content with your pay.'

There is no iota of ambiguity in what bearing fruit means.

Let's see what our Master, Yahushua the Messiah, said.

Luke 6:43-45 No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. A GOOD MAN BRINGS GOOD THINGS OUT OF THE GOOD STORED UP IN HIS HEART, AN EVIL MAN BRINGS EVIL BRINGS EVIL THINGS OUT OF THE EVIL STORED UP IN HIS HEART. FOR THE MOUTH SPEAKS WHAT THE HEART IS FULL OF.

AGAIN:

JOHN 15:

1-2 I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be more fruit.

5 I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I remain in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

8 This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

Unless for anyone who wants to confuse himself or herself, there is no shred of confusion here.

For the propagators of saved by grace alone or eternal security or once saved, always saved, can they explain these Scriptures to us?

John 15:6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up thrown into the fire and burned

John 15:9-10 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. IF YOU KEEP MY COMMANDS, YOU WILL REMAIN IM MY LOVE, JUST AS I HAVE KEPT MY FATHER'S COMMANDS AND REMAIN IN HIS LOVE.

Now continuing with the issue of bearing fruit:

John 15:16-17 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit - FRUIT THAT WILL LAST - and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. This is my COMMAND:LOVE EACH OTHER.


How do we express this love? The Ten Commandments teach us what love is and how we are to express it.

So, unless we eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, we do not have live. Unless a person who claims to be a follower of the Messiah, remains in Righteousness - Yahushua the Messiah himself - by doing righteous acts, eternal life for such a person will be a mirage.

Obviously, eternal life is tied to obedience to the Word of YHVH, who is Yahushua the Messiah himself.

1 John 2:3-6 Whoever says, 'I know him,'but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for YHVH is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him:whoever claims to live in him must live as Yahushua did.

Rev 19:8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear. (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the YHVH's set-apart people.)

El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu Yah!

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by solite3(m): 3:24pm On Jul 20
elated177:



For your erroneous assertions here, read these.

Luke 3:7-8 John said to the crowds coming to be baptised by him, 'You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? PRODUCE FRUIT IN KEEPING WITH REPENTANCE. And do not begin to say to yourselves, "We have Abraham as our father." For I tell that out of these stones YHVH can raise up children for Abraham. The axe has been laid at the root of the trees, AND EVERY TREE THAT DOES NOT PRODUCE GOOD FRUIT WILL BE CUT DOWN AND THROWN INTO THE FIRE.

Contrary to your postulations, bearing good fruits does not mean producing or raising disciples like yourself.

Nope!

It explicitly means doing righteous acts...living righteous life by doing acts associated with righteousness. Which actually is obedience to the Commandments of YHVH.

What else can a tree bear if not its own kind of fruits. However, whether such fruits are good and can be eaten or spoilt/rotten and cannot be eaten is a different case entirely. An apple cannot produce mango and vise versa.

How did John the Baptist admonish them to bear fruit? Let's see.

Luke 3:10-14 'What should we do?' the crowd asked. John answered, 'Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.' Even tax collectors came to be baptised. 'Teacher,' they asked, 'what should we do?' 'Don't collect any more than you are required to,' he told them. Then some soldiers asked him, 'And what should we do?' He replied, 'Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely - be content with your pay.'

There is no iota of ambiguity in what bearing fruit means.

Let's see what our Master, Yahushua the Messiah, said.

Luke 6:43-45 No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. A GOOD MAN BRINGS GOOD THINGS OUT OF THE GOOD STORED UP IN HIS HEART, AN EVIL MAN BRINGS EVIL BRINGS EVIL THINGS OUT OF THE EVIL STORED UP IN HIS HEART. FOR THE MOUTH SPEAKS WHAT THE HEART IS FULL OF.

AGAIN:

JOHN 15:

1-2 I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be more fruit.

5 I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I remain in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

8 This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

Unless for anyone who wants to confuse himself or herself, there is no shred of confusion here.

For the propagators of eternal security or once saved, always saved, can they explain these Scriptures to us?

John 15:6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up thrown into the fire and burned

John 15:9-10 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. IF YOU KEEP MY COMMANDS, YOU WILL REMAIN IM MY LOVE, JUST AS I HAVE KEPT MY FATHER'S COMMANDS AND REMAIN IN HIS LOVE.

Now continuing with the issue of bearing fruit:

John 15:16-17 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit - FRUIT THAT WILL LAST - and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. This is my COMMAND:LOVE EACH OTHER.


How do we express this love? The Ten Commandments teach us what love is and how we are to express it.

So, unless we eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, we do not have live. Unless a person who claims to be a follower of the Messiah, remains in Righteousness - Yahushua the Messiah himself - by doing righteous acts, eternal life for such a person will be a mirage.

Obviously, eternal life is tied to obedience to the Word of YHVH, who is Yahushua the Messiah himself.

1 John 2:3-6 Whoever says, 'I know him,'but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for YHVH is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him:whoever claims to live in him must live as Yahushua did.

Rev 19:8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear. (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the YHVH's set-apart people.)

El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu Yah!


undecided
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 3:30pm On Jul 20
elated177:



For your erroneous assertions here, read these.

Luke 3:7-8 John said to the crowds coming to be baptised by him, 'You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? PRODUCE FRUIT IN KEEPING WITH REPENTANCE. And do not begin to say to yourselves, "We have Abraham as our father." For I tell that out of these stones YHVH can raise up children for Abraham. The axe has been laid at the root of the trees, AND EVERY TREE THAT DOES NOT PRODUCE GOOD FRUIT WILL BE CUT DOWN AND THROWN INTO THE FIRE.

Contrary to your postulations, bearing good fruits does not mean producing or raising disciples like yourself.

Nope!

It explicitly means doing righteous acts...living righteous life by doing acts associated with righteousness. Which actually is obedience to the Commandments of YHVH.

What else can a tree bear if not its own kind of fruits. However, whether such fruits are good and can be eaten or spoilt/rotten and cannot be eaten is a different case entirely. An apple cannot produce mango and vise versa.

How did John the Baptist admonish them to bear fruit? Let's see.

Luke 3:10-14 'What should we do?' the crowd asked. John answered, 'Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.' Even tax collectors came to be baptised. 'Teacher,' they asked, 'what should we do?' 'Don't collect any more than you are required to,' he told them. Then some soldiers asked him, 'And what should we do?' He replied, 'Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely - be content with your pay.'

There is no iota of ambiguity in what bearing fruit means.

Let's see what our Master, Yahushua the Messiah, said.

Luke 6:43-45 No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. A GOOD MAN BRINGS GOOD THINGS OUT OF THE GOOD STORED UP IN HIS HEART, AN EVIL MAN BRINGS EVIL BRINGS EVIL THINGS OUT OF THE EVIL STORED UP IN HIS HEART. FOR THE MOUTH SPEAKS WHAT THE HEART IS FULL OF.

AGAIN:

JOHN 15:

1-2 I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be more fruit.

5 I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I remain in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

8 This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

Unless for anyone who wants to confuse himself or herself, there is no shred of confusion here.

For the propagators of eternal security or once saved, always saved, can they explain these Scriptures to us?

John 15:6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up thrown into the fire and burned

John 15:9-10 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. IF YOU KEEP MY COMMANDS, YOU WILL REMAIN IM MY LOVE, JUST AS I HAVE KEPT MY FATHER'S COMMANDS AND REMAIN IN HIS LOVE.

Now continuing with the issue of bearing fruit:

John 15:16-17 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit - FRUIT THAT WILL LAST - and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. This is my COMMAND:LOVE EACH OTHER.


How do we express this love? The Ten Commandments teach us what love is and how we are to express it.

So, unless we eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, we do not have live. Unless a person who claims to be a follower of the Messiah, remains in Righteousness - Yahushua the Messiah himself - by doing righteous acts, eternal life for such a person will be a mirage.

Obviously, eternal life is tied to obedience to the Word of YHVH, who is Yahushua the Messiah himself.

1 John 2:3-6 Whoever says, 'I know him,'but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for YHVH is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him:whoever claims to live in him must live as Yahushua did.

Rev 19:8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear. (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the YHVH's set-apart people.)

El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu Yah!



I have repeated those verses many times on this thread, he would never listen...

Just watch how he'll respond to this.
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by budaatum: 1:59pm On Jul 21
The possession of Knowledge, unaccompanied by a manifestation and expression in Action, is like the hoarding of precious metals by the miser—a vain and foolish thing. Forget not The Law of Use, in this and all other things.
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by elated177: 11:21am On Jul 22
OkCornel:


I have repeated those verses many times on this thread, he would never listen...

Just watch how he'll respond to this.




You did a good job

2 Likes 2 Shares

Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by solite3(m): 4:31pm On Jul 22
quote author=OkCornel post=80454637]

How is it different from what I've been saying?[/quote] you said faith alone cannot save which is not biblical the biblical stand is that faith alone in christ is what saves but however faith has its works which cannot save but only serves as proof to men.
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 6:35am On Jul 23
solite3:
you said faith alone cannot save which is not biblical the biblical stand is that faith alone in christ is what saves but however faith has its works which cannot save but only serves as proof to men.

Faith without works is useless.

You earlier mentioned Faith without works is not a saving faith...

I mentioned earlier on this thread that being a branch in the vine is not the issue. Abiding in the vine is what the real issue is.

This can only be done by obeying the COMMANDMENTS of Jesus. This is where works comes in...

Faith without works is nonsense...
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by solite3(m): 9:35am On Jul 23
OkCornel:


Faith without works is useless.

You earlier mentioned Faith without works is not a saving faith...
faith without works is what justifies a man before God but such faith produces works.
You quote the scriptures in half and try to twist it to propagate the satanic teaching of salvation by mixture of faith and works.

I mentioned earlier on this thread that being a branch in the vine is not the issue. Abiding in the vine is what the real issue is.
nobody said it is a problem. There is no difficulty in abiding in christ. It is only difficult to unsaved people.

This can only be done by obeying the COMMANDMENTS of Jesus. This is where works comes in...
Jesus didnt say keep my commandment so you can abide in me. You are adding to his words.

No he said keep my commandment so you can abide in mine love.




Faith without works is nonsense...

how was the theif on the cross saved by faith alone or by faith plus works?
You see that faith without works saves.

By the way your works are useless before God.
Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Is it your filthy works of righteousness that will save you.

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

No work made Abraham righteous neither can it justfy anyone.
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OpenYourEyes1: 3:34pm On Sep 11
OpenYourEyes1:
"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” — Revelation 21:8

"Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”—Luke 5:31-32


"From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”— Matthew 4:17


"He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. "— Luke 24:46-48


" Nothing evil will be allowed to enter, nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life"—Revelation 21:27

"For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him."— Matthew 21:32

"So watch yourselves. “If your brother or sistersins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them" — Luke 17:3


"Produce fruit in keeping with repentance." —Matthew 3:8


"God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins." — Acts 5:31

Very important
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OpenYourEyes1: 7:48am On Sep 12
OpenYourEyes1:
"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” — Revelation 21:8

"Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”—Luke 5:31-32


"From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”— Matthew 4:17


"He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. "— Luke 24:46-48


" Nothing evil will be allowed to enter, nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life"—Revelation 21:27

"For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him."— Matthew 21:32

"So watch yourselves. “If your brother or sistersins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them" — Luke 17:3


"Produce fruit in keeping with repentance." —Matthew 3:8


"God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins." — Acts 5:31
.

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