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Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! - Religion (13) - Nairaland

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Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 1:54pm On Jul 18
2 Peter 1 v 4-9;

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.



According to Apostle Peter, a Faith WITHOUT
Virtue, Knowledge, Temperance, Patience, Godliness, brotherly kindness and charity shows that person is barren and unfruitful in the knowledge of Jesus Christ...



And I have repeatedly mentioned what Jesus said is the fate of barren branches in John 15.

They are cut off and cast into the fire...
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by Truthsbitter: 2:11pm On Jul 18
OkCornel:



Jesus o, see blatant misinterpretation of the scriptures!


Powers now means sins according to Paul in Romans 8 v 38?


This is hilarious...

Truthsbitter, budaatum, Jesusjnr, openyoureyes1, are you seeing this blatant lie here?


From the first sentence I knew where he was driving at.
Paul said that he is persuaded that nothing can separate us from the love of Christ. yes that is true , not even sin but the idea is not to become fully conquered by sin, it is not to go deeper into sin but it is to put sin beneath with every passing moment we live here on earth ( just as light shines brighter when going deeper into darkness), we are children of light.
They say that works don't matter because works don't earn you salvation but the truth is that salvation as a gift strengthens you to earn good works whether you like it or not, you can't escape it (bearing good fruits) if you are truly saved.
check this out; Matthew 7:16-20 KJV
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Now let me disagree with you OkCornel a lil.
one can be in a bad place doing something bad but doing everything righteously which means his/her fruits despite being an/a armed robber/prostitute is good. such a person is taking the righteousness/light of God deep into unrighteousness/darkness and with time that light begins to shine brighter and darkness begins to shear off. All of a sudden such a person becomes a winner of hard/stone souls/hearts. (this is school of hard knocks, I wouldn't want to go deep, because it's a dangerous type of teaching). But it has to be Gods own doing, it has to be his plan not the plan of man, so let no man use such experiences/histories/stories as an excuse to practice evil.
Though it may seem to the world that such a person is of the devil but with time his/her light and good works will manifest brighter.
I know that the kingdom of God is within but what is within should manifest onto the physical within moments as we live and with time the world should be able to see, know and conclude what kind of fruit a spirit man produces whether it be evil or it be good. ( Just like our lord Jesus Christ who was first accused of being evil and later proved to be the Messiah)
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 2:26pm On Jul 18
Truthsbitter:

From the first sentence I knew where he was driving at.
Paul said that he is persuaded that nothing can separate us from the love of Christ. yes that is true , not even sin but the idea is not to become fully conquered by sin, it is not to go deeper into sin but it is to put sin beneath with every passing moment we live here on earth ( just as light shines brighter when going deeper into darkness), we are children of light.
They say that works don't matter because works don't earn you salvation but the truth is that salvation as a gift strengthens you to earn good works whether you like it or not, you can't escape it (bearing good fruits) if you are truly saved.
check this out; Matthew 7:16-20 KJV
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Now let me disagree with you OkCornel a lil.
one can be in a bad place doing something bad but doing everything righteously which means his/her fruits despite being an/a armed robber/prostitute is good. such a person is taking the righteousness/light of God deep into unrighteousness/darkness and with time that light begins to shine brighter and darkness begins to shear off. All of a sudden such a person becomes a winner of hard/stone souls/hearts. (this is school of hard knocks, I wouldn't want to go deep, because it's a dangerous type of teaching). But it has to be Gods own doing, it has to be his plan not the plan of man, so let no man use such experiences/histories/stories as an excuse to practice evil.
Though it may seem to the world that such a person is of the devil but with time his/her light and good works will manifest brighter.
I know that the kingdom of God is within but what is within should manifest onto the physical within moments as we live and with time the world should be able to see, know and conclude what kind of fruit a spirit man produces whether it be evil or it be good. ( Just like our lord Jesus Christ who was first accused of being evil and later proved to be the Messiah)

That thing you called dangerous preaching up there is the truth no one should be shy to speak.

No one can change from a sinful lifestyle within a day. Obviously not. But one cannot remain in such a lifestyle forever after knowing Jesus.

The issue is where there are no changes from works of wickedness to works of righteousness after coming to know Jesus.

The problem is people justifying a life of wilfull sin despite knowing the truth.

What is your understanding of what John wrote in 1 John 2 v 4?

Also, who are those whom this barren branches in the vine represent? Can anyone abide in Jesus without OBEDIENCE to His COMMANDMENTS?

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Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 3:09pm On Jul 18
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.





Hearing and doing goes together.

Hearing without doing is like building a house upon the sand...
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by Truthsbitter: 4:43pm On Jul 18
OkCornel:


That thing you called dangerous preaching up there is the truth no one should be shy to speak.

No one can change from a sinful lifestyle within a day. Obviously not. But one cannot remain in such a lifestyle forever after knowing Jesus.

The issue is where there are no changes from works of wickedness to works of righteousness after coming to know Jesus.

The problem is people justifying a life of wilfull sin despite knowing the truth.
The spirit of Antichrist is at work...

if anyone willfully disobeys God even after experiencing Christ, bringing about pain and more disobedience. That is not the spirit of Christ. we should shine brighter unto a perfect man as the word of God commands(eph. 4:13) not grow darker unto a dead night where even the moon can't reflect the light of the sun.
What is your understanding of what John wrote in 1 John 2 v 4?

The real truth is that one can't obey God if one doesn't have love for God and love of God in his heart.
This verse is saying that there are some persons that know the truth (that Christ is the lord), they will even preach it but they will disobey him not only in their actions but in their hearts. for true disobedience comes first from within (the heart). Such persons goes against their conscience (seals it up) to deny the truth about their evil deeds, they want to continue living in sin willfully even after knowing the truth, they fight fervently against the working of the holy spirit in them and every time they succeed they seal up a bad habit into their lives and justify it. This verse is saying they liars, deceiving both themselves and others who are not rooted well in Christ. And I want to think that if they continue they may lead to the answer of the question you asked below.
check this out :

1 John 2:18-19 KJV
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
[19] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out , that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. compare with Matthew 7: 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
1 John 4:3 KJV
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Also, who are those whom this barren branches in the vine represent? Can anyone abide in Jesus without OBEDIENCE to His COMMANDMENTS?

I am a little bit hooked up now. I would love to discuss more on this issue with you ..."light and darkness". maybe I will find a way to open a thread we could discuss well therein.

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Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by solite3(m): 5:33pm On Jul 18
OkCornel:


The knowledge of good and evil.

Wait first, please show us which Law God gave to the gentiles.

Also explain what Paul meant by telling us the gentiles had no Law, but yet did things written in the Law.


you yourself read where paul said without law there is no sin?
Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

How did God destroyed sodom and gomorrah and the first world of noah's generation?
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 5:40pm On Jul 18
solite3:
you yourself read where paul said without law there is no sin?
Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

How did God destroyed sodom and gomorrah and the first world of noah's generation?




Every man knew what was good and evil. That knowledge brings about sin consciousness.

Like I've asked earlier, apart from the Mosaic Law, can we see anywhere in the scriptures God gave laws to the Gentiles?
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 5:41pm On Jul 18
Truthsbitter:

The spirit of Antichrist is at work...

if anyone willfully disobeys God even after experiencing Christ, bringing about pain and more disobedience. That is not the spirit of Christ. we should shine brighter unto a perfect man as the word of God commands(eph. 4:13) not grow darker unto a dead night where even the moon can't reflect the light of the sun.


The real truth is that one can't obey God if one doesn't have love for God and love of God in his heart.
This verse is saying that there are some persons that know the truth (that Christ is the lord), they will even preach it but they will disobey him not only in their actions but in their hearts. for true disobedience comes first from within (the heart). Such persons goes against their conscience (seals it up) to deny the truth about their evil deeds, they want to continue living in sin willfully even after knowing the truth, they fight fervently against the working of the holy spirit in them and every time they succeed they seal up a bad habit into their lives and justify it. This verse is saying they liars, deceiving both themselves and others who are not rooted well in Christ. And I want to think that if they continue they may lead to the answer of the question you asked below.
check this out :

1 John 2:18-19 KJV
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
[19] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out , that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. compare with Matthew 7: 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
1 John 4:3 KJV
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


I am a little bit hooked up now. I would love to discuss more on this issue with you ..."light and darkness". maybe I will find a way to open a thread we could discuss well therein.


Nice one bro, let's open a thread and discuss better. Later tonight or tomorrow.

Thanks.
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by solite3(m): 6:19pm On Jul 18
OkCornel:


Every man knew what was good and evil right from the moment Adam and Eve ate from that tree....


If you dispute, let us know where man's knowledge of sin started...

what is it that gives you knowledge of God and evil?
Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Although the gentiles do not have the written law but the law unwritten is in them.

Romans 2:14-15 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one anotherwink


The bible says when there is no law there is no sin.
For there to be sin there must be a law to break.
Adam sinned because he broke the law.
Paul was not just talking about just the mosaic law only but laws generally.
The problem is not mosaic or any other law but human being themselves.

Romans 7:12-13 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The human nature can not obey God
Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

You see the reason why no soul can be justified by works before God.

Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.


You see the reason a man can not be justified by any works at all?

God is 100% holy he can not manage even the smallest error.
You said why faith and works is need for a man to be justified? Right?
Ask yourself why is work not enough, is it not because it is imperfect? If it was perfect will you need faith? If you can do perfect works then you have already fulfill the law you dont even nees faith again but you and I know that is not true.

Whereas from the old testament, right from Genesis God has signified what he need is absolute perfection, he reject cains works because it was imperfect.
All the animals, flours, oils and materials used for service in by the jews were all to be perfect, why because God is a God of perfection. Only Jesus could meet God's demands perfectly.

You might say that is why i added faith, I want to ask you what is faith? Faith in who? If you are believing God to be justified is it not your works could not justify you?

We talk about mercy of God, you are seeking for God's mercies yet you believe you deserve it because of what you have done?

The parable of the pharisee and the publican come to mind here

Luke 18:11-14 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

The pharisee has works to hold onto but the the public has nothing to hold onto but believed only God can have mercy on him. You see he was justified instantly God didnt wait to see his works. You are in error to think works is needed. I showed you the thief on the cross you said it is becasue he was dieing and have no opportunity to do works. I brought you examples of others, this man is an example of someone who was justified without works which you claim it is not possible.

You see here that doing the works is not a problem but boasting with it as the reason God is going to justify is wrong.


God has already set his standard no soul can be justified by works.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

The bible made us understand that there are some Christians whose works will be reejected but they are still going to be aaved.
James has no problem but you are getting james wrong and out of context.
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by LifestyleTonite: 6:31pm On Jul 18
OkCornel:


LifestyleTonite is still mute on this question.

Read the link below to see the real interpretation of the Hebrews 10:26 you've been misquoting. The link below even explains the entire verse to show that one cannot lose salvation and that the reason why there is no more sacrifice for sins is because the sacrifice made by Jesus worked.

https://rlsv.org/hebrews-1026-proves-eternal-security/
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by LifestyleTonite: 6:36pm On Jul 18
OkCornel:



Jesus o, see blatant misinterpretation of the scriptures!


Powers now means sins according to Paul in Romans 8 v 38?


This is hilarious...

Truthsbitter, budaatum, Jesusjnr, openyoureyes1, are you seeing this blatant lie here?



Yes, powers as used in the passenger below also covers the power of sin.


Romans 8:37-39
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You say sin can prevent one from heaven. At the same time you say sin is not powerful. Please, tell us how sin prevents one from heaven if sin is not powerful enough to do that.

The below verse says sin won't have Dominion/power over us because we are under Grace.

Romans 6:14
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

If sin has no Dominion over us, shouldn't that tell you that it means sin has no power over us?

Sin which is powerful falls under powers as used by Paul. So therefore, it can't separate is from the love of Christ. tongue
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by alBHAGDADI: 7:08pm On Jul 18
OkCornel:


Says the shameless peverter of the Gospel that instructs Christians to hate certain people.



I'm simply doing what Jesus encouraged. Remember he praised the church in Ephesus for not bearing evil people.

Revelations 2:2
2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Yes he praised them for their works of hating evil people. Yet you say Christians are not to hate.

You have been hammering on works, works, works... Here's a work that entails hatred of evil people, a thing Jesus himself commended the Christians in Ephesus for doing.
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 9:17pm On Jul 18
alBHAGDADI:


I'm simply doing what Jesus encouraged. Remember he praised the church in Ephesus for not bearing evil people.

Revelations 2:2
2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Yes he praised them for their works of hating evil people. Yet you say Christians are not to hate.

You have been hammering on works, works, works... Here's a work that entails hatred of evil people, a thing Jesus himself commended the Christians in Ephesus for doing.

According to alBHAGDADI, if you can't bear someone, it means you hate that person...


Why not put the entire thing Jesus said concerning the church of Ephesus here?


Revelation 2 v 1-7;

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.



A proper explanation of the evil people in question refers to the Nicolaitans. The church of Ephesus hated the DEEDS of the Nicolaitans.

Jesus hated the DEEDS of the Nicolaitans...


The Nicolaitans themselves were not hated, it was their DEEDS that was hated...



Again, please show us where Jesus instructed His followers to hate a certain group of people.


Jesus classified every human being as either neighbors or enemies, and both should be loved. Evil people fall under the category of the latter. Hate their DEEDS, not the person itself.




Now also look at Luke 6 v 35;

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.


Please tell us Jesus is lying that God shows kindness towards evil people grin
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 9:23pm On Jul 18
LifestyleTonite:


Yes, powers as used in the passenger below also covers the power of sin.


Romans 8:37-39
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You say sin can prevent one from heaven. At the same time you say sin is not powerful. Please, tell us how sin prevents one from heaven if sin is not powerful enough to do that.

The below verse says sin won't have Dominion/power over us because we are under Grace.

Romans 6:14
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

If sin has no Dominion over us, shouldn't that tell you that it means sin has no power over us?

Sin which is powerful falls under powers as used by Paul. So therefore, it can't separate is from the love of Christ. tongue


Bros, take a look at the explanation for Powers in that verse, it is not sin.

However, your point on sin is well taken, after all, Jesus while here on Earth also showed Love towards sinners. He never approved of their sinful lifestyle, but still loved them.


https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/romans-8-38.html
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 10:47pm On Jul 18
solite3:
what is it that gives you knowledge of God and evil?
Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Although the gentiles do not have the written law but the law unwritten is in them.

Romans 2:14-15 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one anotherwink


The bible says when there is no law there is no sin.
For there to be sin there must be a law to break.
Adam sinned because he broke the law.
Paul was not just talking about just the mosaic law only but laws generally.
The problem is not mosaic or any other law but human being themselves.

Romans 7:12-13 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The human nature can not obey God
Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

You see the reason why no soul can be justified by works before God.

Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.


You see the reason a man can not be justified by any works at all?

God is 100% holy he can not manage even the smallest error.
You said why faith and works is need for a man to be justified? Right?
Ask yourself why is work not enough, is it not because it is imperfect? If it was perfect will you need faith? If you can do perfect works then you have already fulfill the law you dont even nees faith again but you and I know that is not true.

Whereas from the old testament, right from Genesis God has signified what he need is absolute perfection, he reject cains works because it was imperfect.
All the animals, flours, oils and materials used for service in by the jews were all to be perfect, why because God is a God of perfection. Only Jesus could meet God's demands perfectly.

You might say that is why i added faith, I want to ask you what is faith? Faith in who? If you are believing God to be justified is it not your works could not justify you?

We talk about mercy of God, you are seeking for God's mercies yet you believe you deserve it because of what you have done?

The parable of the pharisee and the publican come to mind here

Luke 18:11-14 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

The pharisee has works to hold onto but the the public has nothing to hold onto but believed only God can have mercy on him. You see he was justified instantly God didnt wait to see his works. You are in error to think works is needed. I showed you the thief on the cross you said it is becasue he was dieing and have no opportunity to do works. I brought you examples of others, this man is an example of someone who was justified without works which you claim it is not possible.

You see here that doing the works is not a problem but boasting with it as the reason God is going to justify is wrong.


God has already set his standard no soul can be justified by works.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 4:2
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

The bible made us understand that there are some Christians whose works will be reejected but they are still going to be aaved.
James has no problem but you are getting james wrong and out of context.



Can someone have "Faith" in Jesus and yet not keep His COMMANDMENTS?

Can such a person abide in Him? Can such a person be saved?

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Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 10:56pm On Jul 18
LifestyleTonite:


Read the link below to see the real interpretation of the Hebrews 10:26 you've been misquoting. The link below even explains the entire verse to show that one cannot lose salvation and that the reason why there is no more sacrifice for sins is because the sacrifice made by Jesus worked.

https://rlsv.org/hebrews-1026-proves-eternal-security/

Hebrews 10 v 26, 1 John 2 v 4 and 2 Peter 2 v 20-22 connects perfectly.

You cannot justify a sinful lifestyle, shun the commandments of Jesus and be saved.

Never.


That means a ritualist who confessed Jesus is his Lord and "believes" he is saved, but still goes around shedding innocent blood to perform money rituals will make it into Heaven?

Interesting...
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 11:12pm On Jul 18
Matthew 7 v 15-20;

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by alBHAGDADI: 6:29am On Jul 19
OkCornel:


According to alBHAGDADI, if you can't bear someone, it means you hate that person...


Why not put the entire thing Jesus said concerning the church of Ephesus here?


Revelation 2 v 1-7;

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.



A proper explanation of the evil people in question refers to the Nicolaitans. The church of Ephesus hated the DEEDS of the Nicolaitans.

Jesus hated the DEEDS of the Nicolaitans...


The Nicolaitans themselves were not hated, it was their DEEDS that was hated...



Again, please show us where Jesus instructed His followers to hate a certain group of people.


Jesus classified every human being as either neighbors or enemies, and both should be loved. Evil people fall under the category of the latter. Hate their DEEDS, not the person itself.




Now also look at Luke 6 v 35;

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.


Please tell us Jesus is lying that God shows kindness towards evil people grin

Sorry Mr olodo.

Jesus commended them for hating the Nicolaitans for being evil and also their evil deeds. If you truly understand English, who are the them in the verse below?

2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Who are the them?

According to Mr olodo Okcornel, THEM means deeds.

grin Go back to school, primary school.
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 7:28am On Jul 19
alBHAGDADI:


Sorry Mr olodo.

Jesus commended them for hating the Nicolaitans for being evil and also their evil deeds. If you truly understand English, who are the them in the verse below?

2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Who are the them?

According to Mr olodo Okcornel, THEM means deeds.

grin Go back to school, primary school.

Look at who needs to go back to nursery school grin

According to alBHAGDADI, if a man cannot bear his nagging wife, it means the man hates his wife.

The church of Ephesus cannot bear evil people in their midst simply means they don't tolerate evil in their midst.


Now look at how Jesus gave further clarity on it. Jesus commended that church for hating the DEEDS of the Nicolaitans, and not the Nicolaitans themselves.



Nowhere did Jesus instruct anyone to show hatred for another person.


Even the evil people you are saying Christians should hate, see how Jesus said they should be treated.

Luke 6 v 35;

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by alBHAGDADI: 7:53am On Jul 19
OkCornel:


Look at who needs to go back to nursery school grin

According to alBHAGDADI, if a man cannot bear his nagging wife, it means the man hates his wife.

The church of Ephesus cannot bear evil people in their midst simply means they don't tolerate evil in their midst.



Of course. If he doesn't hate her, he would bear her nagging.

You fail to understand Jesus. He wasn't talking about their deeds. He was talking about them. He said they are evil. Satan is evil. You can't say we should love Satan and hate his evil deeds. No. His evil deeds come from him because he's evil. You can't separate him from it, that's why we hate him. An evil person is evil and that's why he has evil deeds.

Jesus was clear in Revelations 2. He first talked about hating evil people,

2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:


then he spoke of the deeds of the Nicolaitans which he also encouraged to be hated.

6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

You said Jesus was just talking about the deeds of the Nicolaitanes. But the below verse shows him speaking against the church in Pergamos for keeping such people in the church. He's basically saying they should be driven away. Yet you say he was o lt angry at their deeds and not them. He's saying why do you have them in your midst? If you don't drive them away, the evil doctrine will remain in your midst.


15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.


Look at verse 14 also, he was angry at the church of Pergamos for keeping and bearing the people who preach the doctrine of Balaam. It simply means he's telling them to drive them away. Why didn't he say drive away their deeds and keep them? No you can't drive away deeds except you drive away the doer.


14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

You can't separate an evildoer from his evil deeds. That's why it's the evildoer that goes to jail or gers punished, not his evil deeds.

Goodbye.
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by alBHAGDADI: 8:00am On Jul 19
OkCornel:




Nowhere did Jesus instruct anyone to show hatred for another person.


Even the evil people you are saying Christians should hate, see how Jesus said they should be treated.

Luke 6 v 35;

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Jesus was talking about personal enemies, not just every Tom dick and Harry. Personal enemies are those who hurt you, not those who hurt someone else. See what he said we should do to them:

Luke 6
27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

Nowhere does he say enemies are just random people. He was specific by saying it is those who hurt us.

Enemy does not mean everybody. Not sverunody is my enemy. A rapist is more my enemy that I'm supposed to love. He hasn't raped me. So I'm supposed to hate him for raping others and destroying them, not pat him on the back. Patting him on the back is what Satanists like you do. grin

Goodbye
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 8:02am On Jul 19
Look at the meaning of Revelation 2 v 2 alBHAGDADI is trying to twist to justify hatred.

It means maintaining one's distance from such people, not hating them.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/revelation/revelation-2/revelation-2-2.html


CANNOT BEAR

The Ephesian church did not bear those who were evil. This must refer to the Scriptural application of church discipline to protect the gathering from those who were not truly of them (Mtt. Mat. 18:17; 1Cor. 1Cor. 5:5; 1Ti. 1Ti. 6:3-5):

The sphere in which the Angel of Ephesus had the chief opportunity of manifesting this holy intolerance of evil-doers was, no doubt, that of Church-discipline, separating off from fellowship with the faithful those who named the name of Christ, yet would not depart from iniquity (2Ti. 2Ti. 2:19).2

A letter written by Ignatius (A.D. 98-117) mentions this commendable characteristic of the Ephesian church:
But I have learned that certain people . . . have passed your way with evil doctrine, but you did not allow them to sow it among you. You covered up your ears in order to avoid receiving the things being sown by them—Ignatius, The Letter of Ignatius to the Ephesians3
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 8:05am On Jul 19
Double post...
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 8:06am On Jul 19
alBHAGDADI:


Jesus was talking about personal enemies, not just every Tom dick and Harry. Personal enemies are those who hurt you, not those who hurt someone else. See what he said we should do to them:

Luke 6
27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

Nowhere does he say enemies are just random people. He was specific by saying it is those who hurt us.

Enemy does not mean everybody. Not sverunody is my enemy. A rapist is more my enemy that I'm supposed to love. He hasn't raped me. So I'm supposed to hate him for raping others and destroying them, not pat him on the back. Patting him on the back is what Satanists like you do. grin

Goodbye


Time to run away... Please talk further so your heresy on hatred for others can be exposed...


In Luke 6 v 35, why did Jesus instruct His followers to Love evil people just as God also shows His love towards them?


To burst your bubble of lies talking about "personal enemies" up there, Jesus clearly said in Luke 6 v 35 that God loves all evil people and shows His kindness towards them, and for one to be regarded as His child, such a person must do the same thing... Love them all...
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 8:16am On Jul 19
alBHAGDADI:


Of course. If he doesn't hate her, he would bear her nagging.

You fail to understand Jesus. He wasn't talking about their deeds. He was talking about them. He said they are evil. Satan is evil. You can't say we should love Satan and hate his evil deeds. No. His evil deeds come from him because he's evil. You can't separate him from it, that's why we hate him. An evil person is evil and that's why he has evil deeds.

Jesus was clear in Revelations 2. He first talked about hating evil people,

2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:


then he spoke of the deeds of the Nicolaitans which he also encouraged to be hated.

6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

You said Jesus was just talking about the deeds of the Nicolaitanes. But the below verse shows him speaking against the church in Pergamos for keeping such people in the church. He's basically saying they should be driven away. Yet you say he was o lt angry at their deeds and not them. He's saying why do you have them in your midst? If you don't drive them away, the evil doctrine will remain in your midst.


15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.


Look at verse 14 also, he was angry at the church of Pergamos for keeping and bearing the people who preach the doctrine of Balaam. It simply means he's telling them to drive them away. Why didn't he say drive away their deeds and keep them? No you can't drive away deeds except you drive away the doer.


14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

You can't separate an evildoer from his evil deeds. That's why it's the evildoer that goes to jail or gers punished, not his evil deeds.

Goodbye.


Kai, see comedy. Maintaining one's distance from evil people automatically means hatred for such people? Obviously, none of those saints in Ephesus wanted to be corrupted by the evil lifestyle of those evil doers, hence they maintain their boundaries...


It does not mean one would go the extra mile to hate the person committing such acts...


Unless you are telling us Jesus was lying in Luke 6 v 35... concerning how God loves evil people.

Jesus further clarified their inability to bear evil in their midst to mean hating the DEEDS of the Nicolaitans, and not the evil doers themselves.

See shameless twisting of the scriptures to justify hatred by alBHAGDADI...
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by Uteghe(m): 8:21am On Jul 19
paxonel:
now you see that the justification to eternal life is spiritual, it has nothing to do with repentance which is physical.

John 3:6 that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.

So, spirit and flesh have nothing to do with each other just like salvation into eternal life(which is spiritual justification) has nothing to do with repentance.

So, the reason why those scriptures you quoted earlier emphasizes repentance is for us to attain physical justification here on this earth and not for us to attain eternal life.

No amount of good thing you do can give you eternal life. Eternal life is freely given to us through Christ whether we repent or not.
Eternal life at where? Heaven or hell?
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by solite3(m): 9:23am On Jul 19
OkCornel:



Can someone have "Faith" in Jesus and yet not keep His COMMANDMENTS?

Can such a person abide in Him? Can such a person be saved?
you are contradicting yourself.

Abiding in Jesus is the same as trusting in him.
So when a man abide in him.
The word 'abide' has to do with to rest or to stay. If a man trust in christ has his source(vine) of eternal life he has abided in him but if he trust in his works he did not trust im christ as his source of life hence would be cut off from christ.
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 9:42am On Jul 19
solite3:
you are contradicting yourself.

Abiding in Jesus is the same as trusting in him.
So when a man abide in him.
The word 'abide' has to do with to rest or to stay. If a man trust in christ has his source(vine) of eternal life he has abided in him but if he trust in his works he did not trust im christ as his source of life hence would be cut off from christ.

Jesus clearly mentioned what it meant to abide in Him.


It means to OBEY His commandments. That is the works expected of Believers to abide in Him.


Or is your version of John 15 different from what I've put on this thread?
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 9:46am On Jul 19
John 15 v 1-17

The Vine and the Branches
1“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.

2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful.

3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.

10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete.

12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.

17 This is my command: Love each other




Solite3, please take note of the bolded verses. One cannot claim to abide in Jesus without OBEYING (Doing) His commandments.
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 9:51am On Jul 19
What James 2 v 19 means.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.compellingtruth.org/amp/even-the-demons-believe.html


Paying lip service without actions is nothing but fraud.

Mere Belief is not sufficient... Even Demons believe...
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by LifestyleTonite: 10:12am On Jul 19
OkCornel:



Bros, take a look at the explanation for Powers in that verse, it is not sin.

However, your point on sin is well taken, after all, Jesus while here on Earth also showed Love towards sinners. He never approved of their sinful lifestyle, but still loved them.


https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/romans-8-38.html



Does sin have power?

Okcornel: YES

So how come sin doesn't fall under the category of powers that can't separate man from Jesus?
Re: Saved by grace alone - A filthy doctrine of demons. Please beware! by OkCornel(m): 10:16am On Jul 19
LifestyleTonite:


Does sin have power?

Okcornel: YES

So how come sin doesn't fall under the category of powers that can't separate man from Jesus?


Did you really read my response at all?


Ok, does death have power? Yes.

Why was it mentioned separately from Powers?


I'll put the meaning of Power from that link here...

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