rapmike: I dnt tink stealth was important in d beginning at 1st. Yea,it gav sum pipu d advantage bt considering neji was on white,naruto on red, ten-ten on a bright colour etc, it may nt be dat important unles it was a very serious mission e.g assasination

u cant say dat. the essence of a ninja is stealth. the reason they arm themselves is to defend when stealth goes wrong. but stealth is the first technique every ninja employs. it is necessary. plus i've seen naruto stealth with his team b4.

GRIMM JOE: have u heard of transformation justu ninjas execpt taijustu users like gai can tranform to .ny live or non living thing

oh my God did u jux say that? if transformation is so great why do ninjas teach stealth as a basics in the first plax....i know...cos it jux a waste of chakra... u'll be found out. jounins aren't idiots u know. even chounins can probably see thru it.

Ihedinobi:
Oh I'm willing to assume that the Susano'o is his ultimate defence. Now I want to know how that fact proves that Pein would kill him medium difficulty. Show me how Itachi's Susano'o could not possibly raise Pein's difficulty to high or even cost him his win over Itachi.


If Hidan is your example of others, I don't think you are addressing anything I said. Hidan had only two strengths: the secrecy surrounding his technique - as long as you didn't know what he was trying to do with that weird weapon of his, he could kill you; and his immortality. Hidan could never be described as smart by any standards. He fought very carelessly because he wasn't afraid to die. He didn't bother to try to kill his opponent with complex techniques because he only cared about drawing blood for his ritual. That's who you want to compare with Itachi-san.

Itachi is the one character in Naruto that I personally feel like I still don't know that well despite everything else. His was the first Susano'o we saw in the series and it showed up just when we thought he was dead from kirin's blast. It was after he died that we saw that he even had izanami in his arsenal. Makes you wonder just how much more he had.

Simply put, Itachi is still the surprise in Naruto. Against Pein, I wouldn't bet that he would lose. I might even bet that he'll win.

Seriously, now, show me some real argument for why he'll definitely lose against Pein.

1. shinra tensei and chibaku tensei are enough to overwhelm susanoo. the sealing sword wnt seal him if he wants to absorb it. there's nothing dat can in itachi's coffers that can scratch him...exaggeratting ofcos. but u get the idea.



2. i meant if u r praising itachi for using the fact dat he is an edo tensei ninja to his advantage den praise hidan for combining with kakuzu's destructive abilities using his immortality as a buffer...so to speak.

Ihedinobi:
The bolded is flawed reasoning. All-out battle is the reason that people from opposing sides would want to be inconspicuous to each other, Kimco. It's the reason that neither Madara nor Hashi told the other their surnames and Madara caught himself before giving away that he had a sharingan.

So, if ninja should be inconspicuous in dressing at any time, Hashi, Tobirama and Madara should be like chameleons.

i played ur game. u too cant assume dat they wore red when stealthing. cos we didnt see dem stealth. wat we did see was a head on battle with both wearing their respective clan costume. naruto and sakura however we have seen stealth. it's a wonder nobody cud make him out in the bushes. he's bright orange ffs.

Ihedinobi:
I didn't answer it? Why then do you agree with me? Of course the matchup can only be judged by the skills and the jutsus of both characters. That's what I said.

I also have continued to say that we have seen that Itachi surprises a lot. It is abundantly evident that he has more jutsus in his arsenal than he has been shown to display. And he is incredibly skilled with them. Therefore, I would not hand the fight to Pein simply because he has Almighty Push and Itachi has Susano'o. Itachi might choose to respond to Almighty Push with something else. I doubt that you saw his counter to chibaku tensei coming when Nagato soloed him, Bee and Naruto.

Besides, your comeback is not that great. The question assumed that Pein would use Almighty Push. I personally did not insist that he would. One thing I expect from a good fighter is resourcefulness. And Itachi has shown that he is very very resourceful. What Pein showed is that he is extremely powerful and nigh on invulnerable so he does not try to plan strategies or anything. He only keeps his skills secret.

Pertaining to answering the question a simple yes or no would suffice but you muddled it with the knife and gun comparison. my stand is words like resourcefulness,surprise or innovation should be avoided when comparing fighters in general surely Itachi possess both qualities doesn't mean Pein isn't innovative or resourceful the Idea to use the 6 path rather than fighting directly is a genius idea. Since innovation or resourcefulness can't be measured we are left with jutsu kind of like than bingo book stuff kabuto carries around.

Ihedinobi:
I didn't answer it? Why then do you agree with me? Of course the matchup can only be judged by the skills and the jutsus of both characters. That's what I said.

I also have continued to say that we have seen that Itachi surprises a lot. It is abundantly evident that he has more jutsus in his arsenal than he has been shown to display. And he is incredibly skilled with them. Therefore, I would not hand the fight to Pein simply because he has Almighty Push and Itachi has Susano'o. Itachi might choose to respond to Almighty Push with something else. I doubt that you saw his counter to chibaku tensei coming when Nagato soloed him, Bee and Naruto.

Besides, your comeback is not that great. The question assumed that Pein would use Almighty Push. I personally did not insist that he would. One thing I expect from a good fighter is resourcefulness. And Itachi has shown that he is very very resourceful. What Pein showed is that he is extremely powerful and nigh on invulnerable so he does not try to plan strategies or anything. He only keeps his skills secret.

ur response is poor as well. very unlike u. if pain didnt plan then in the battle against jiraiya and vs konoha he wudnt have survived. please jux cos he doesn't arsepull like itachi and naruto doesnt mean itachi is much more resourcefull. when u have dat much power people hardly pudh u. however it doesnt mean u r not resourceful enough.

chibsku tensei is enuff for susanoo. it took an 8 tail kyuubi to destroy it....and others.

Ihedinobi:
I didn't answer it? Why then do you agree with me? Of course the matchup can only be judged by the skills and the jutsus of both characters. That's what I said.

I also have continued to say that we have seen that Itachi surprises a lot. It is abundantly evident that he has more jutsus in his arsenal than he has been shown to display. And he is incredibly skilled with them. Therefore, I would not hand the fight to Pein simply because he has Almighty Push and Itachi has Susano'o. Itachi might choose to respond to Almighty Push with something else. I doubt that you saw his counter to chibaku tensei coming when Nagato soloed him, Bee and Naruto.

Besides, your comeback is not that great. The question assumed that Pein would use Almighty Push. I personally did not insist that he would. One thing I expect from a good fighter is resourcefulness. And Itachi has shown that he is very very resourceful. What Pein showed is that he is extremely powerful and nigh on invulnerable so he does not try to plan strategies or anything. He only keeps his skills secret.

Itachi couldnt even face Jiraya.....have you forgotten?

Mutaino7: Kimco 4 get about stealth or quiteness even minato was recognise as yellow flash, kakashi mistaken as white fang, jiraiya wore red gown too, sakura pink dress nd hair. d way kishi potray naruto uzu is a 100% genius creativity. when a ninja boy dat strives 4 attention starts wearing grey color shirt, has dark hair, silent nd gentle in class u will begin to ask questions. naruto was even at most times recognise by his loudness and unlistening character which gives him out. dats y most times he attacks first y others ochestrate plan b,c nd so on. nd about tnj...diz is wat am gonna say a repentant sinner or converted chain smoker, thief, witch will be able to draw crowd, get more hardened criminals alike to change their ways cos they too wanna undergo dsame radiant xter d ex. is showing. u want to change school...u will first b convinced by a patroniser or d testimony u hear about d said school u wanna change to. so i hope u know y tnj will always b effective. note naruto character(behavior) changes most of his opponent by tnj bcoms effective e.g zabuza arc where naruto was crying 4 haku..he didnt even mention anytin about imsef, lady chiyo, iruka sensei, tsunade, shikamaru, bee's training on beast bomb, kurama, d other tailed beasts... the neva gv up attitude nd the will to help others no matter how.

then why were they tot stealth? if u say is true den kishi has contradicted himself. "oh stealth is gud but not for the major characters". did u see how jiraiya stealth? dnt compare dose two atall. he uses toads and shadows to stealth. his uniform wnt count for nada.

kimco:

1. shinra tensei and chibaku tensei are enough to overwhelm susanoo. the sealing sword wnt seal him if he wants to absorb it. there's nothing dat can in itachi's coffers that can scratch him...exaggeratting ofcos. but u get the idea.

And one hell of an exaggeration too. You have no idea how large or small Itachi's coffers are. When he took out chibaku tensei with Bee and Naruto, did he use Susano'o to do it? Why do you insist that he will counter shinra and chibaku tensei with Susano'o? He could counter chibaku tensei with katon no jutsu or amaterasu. Perhaps he'll counter shinra tensei with taijitsu too. Why must it be susano'o? Is Susano'o the best for every situation?

2. i meant if u r praising itachi for using the fact dat he is an edo tensei ninja to his advantage den praise hidan for combining with kakuzu's destructive abilities using his immortality as a buffer...so to speak.

Who said I was praising him? I was particularly insisting that we can't judge his true abilities by what he did as an unkillable ET. It was part of my argument that you all are grossly underestimating him.

kimco:

i played ur game. u too cant assume dat they wore red when stealthing. cos we didnt see dem stealth. wat we did see was a head on battle with both wearing their respective clan costume. naruto and sakura however we have seen stealth. it's a wonder nobody cud make him out in the bushes. he's bright orange ffs.

Not my game o! It wasn't me you were arguing with at the onset, bro. My interest is your particular annoyance with Naruto as if he's everything that's wrong with Kishi's story.

Nobody in Naruto has been shown to be particularly interested in being stealth. They all go stealth when a mission requires it, otherwise they live and act like being a shinobi is just like any regular job.

SIR cum a lot:

Pertaining to answering the question a simple yes or no would suffice but you muddled it with the knife and gun comparison. my stand is words like resourcefulness,surprise or innovation should be avoided when comparing fighters in general surely Itachi possess both qualities doesn't mean Pein isn't innovative or resourceful the Idea to use the 6 path rather than fighting directly is a genius idea. Since innovation or resourcefulness can't be measured we are left with jutsu kind of like than bingo book stuff kabuto carries around.

Dude, not every question is a yes-or-no question. "Are you a female man?" is an extreme example of questions that cannot be answered with "yes" or "no".

Dude, they're all measurable and identifiable. Look at Sasuke, for example. Before Sasuke acquired the mangekyou, he was an extremely careful, innovative and resourceful fighter. He was always one step ahead of Naruto somehow. When he got the mangekyou though, he coupd dispense with some of his need to be careful and resourceful. He began to rely more on raw power.

The same thing is applicable to many op'ed shinobi in the story. Nagato was just as guilty. He was almost invulnerable. His invulnerability went as far as his abilities were kept secret. As such, he would only spend his intellect on preventing his secrets from getting out. For anything else he simply relied on raw power until he faced someone as powerful as himself, at least. That's why we saw the God Path start fighting with both intellect and brute force when the kyuubi showed six tails.

Itachi is not op'ed, at least as far as we know. But that guy can take Minato on intellect. He's very freaking smart and he'll use that to counter Pein's overpoweredness. That's why I place the fight on high difficulty for both with the win going either way.

kimco:

ur response is poor as well. very unlike u. if pain didnt plan then in the battle against jiraiya and vs konoha he wudnt have survived. please jux cos he doesn't arsepull like itachi and naruto doesnt mean itachi is much more resourcefull. when u have dat much power people hardly pudh u. however it doesnt mean u r not resourceful enough.

chibsku tensei is enuff for susanoo. it took an 8 tail kyuubi to destroy it....and others.

The instant I read "asspull" or "arsepull" in your arguments, I unconsciously dismiss them. That is not a serious argument, man.

You'll find that I've already explained about Pein's not bothering with strategies. It is obvious that he doesn't need to plan too much unless he's facing a really strong or really smart opponent. That's why he had to really set to work to fight Jiraiya and he used his brain against the six/seven-tailed kyuubi too.

I'm wondering why you think Itachi will pit Susano'o against chibaku tensei. You really haven't seen his fights?

Logicboy03:



Itachi couldnt even face Jiraya.....have you forgotten?

"Couldn't"?

Mr ihedinobi itachi used susano when u was to counter d gravity pull. The nagatama bead or just one bizarre bead sha. Abeg u tink taijutsu can counter chinra or amaterasu av u 4gotten how pein removed amaterasu. u saying itachi is smart and diz is gud but dont overrate it abeg. itachi sure gat some skills nd intellect but pein too aint average. what i salute itachi 4 is im knwing d battle he can win hence he uses tsukiyomi or minor genjutsu to delay opponents. take jiraiya case 4 instance u think say im fit beat jiraiya. y do u tink he didnt take obito out of d pics wen d slaughter was ova to kip is secret like an anbu will always do...im know say im go get d shocker of life to just yab anyhow. y unlike pein u get rinnegan wey so6p get and u talk say make yangan no dhey small abegi. even madara is more proud than pein abi nah.

Mutaino7: Mr ihedinobi itachi used susano when u was to counter d gravity pull. The nagatama bead or just one bizarre bead sha. Abeg u tink taijutsu can counter chinra or amaterasu av u 4gotten how pein removed amaterasu. u saying itachi is smart and diz is gud but dont overrate it abeg. itachi sure gat some skills nd intellect but pein too aint average. what i salute itachi 4 is im knwing d battle he can win hence he uses tsukiyomi or minor genjutsu to delay opponents. take jiraiya case 4 instance u think say im fit beat jiraiya. y do u tink he didnt take obito out of d pics wen d slaughter was ova to kip is secret like an anbu will always do...im know say im go get d shocker of life to just yab anyhow. y unlike pein u get rinnegan wey so6p get and u talk say make yangan no dhey small abegi. even madara is more proud than pein abi nah.

You know, I try to avoid speculation when I argue. I use it very sparingly. What exactly did Itachi do with Susano'o when Nagato activated chibaku tensei? How did he use Susano'o to counter chibaku tensei?

Sorry my memory is hazy. How did Pein remove amaterasu?

I am not underestimating Pein at all. I have stated clearly that the guy is overpower-ed. He's abominably strong and almost completely invulnerable. He is also an able fighter in his own right. But Itachi will.not be medium diffivulty for him and there is no reason to believe that Itachi will absolutely lose in that fight. That's my argument.

what does it profit a ninja to where camouflage when their are chakra sensors,byakugan etc instead of masking ur chakra. Plus the travel mostly on trees. ANBU (mostly assasins) that need the camouflage wear dark colors. Even they wud prioritize chakra masking cuz most of their trget have sensors or subordinates wit it eg during the kage meeting every one came with sensors or sumone wit a similar ability

raficki87: what does it profit a ninja to where camouflage when their are chakra sensors,byakugan etc instead of masking ur chakra. Plus the travel mostly on trees. ANBU (mostly assasins) that need the camouflage wear dark colors. Even they wud prioritize chakra masking cuz most of their trget have sensors or subordinates wit it eg during the kage meeting every one came with sensors or sumone wit a similar ability

This ^^^

Ihedinobi,
Itachi used a susanoõ technique Yasaka magatama to counter chibaku tensei.
Pain used shinra tensei to push the amaterasu away from his burning body.

Answer this question: we're making analysis based on the wide array of jutsus we've seen them use. Which Itachi's technique do you think is suitable to withstand Pain's shinra tensei bearing in mind the destructive properties and the force of attack?

Logicboy03 in my own opinion used couldn't based on what Itachi said when they were looking for ways to face Jiraiya. And oh, welcome....

Feraz: Ihedinobi,
Itachi used a susanoõ technique Yasaka magatama to counter chibaku tensei.
Pain used shinra tensei to push the amaterasu away from his burning body.

Mehn, I've forgotten too much about that episode. Do you remember what chapter it was so I can go look it up? Thanks for the info, btw.

Answer this question: we're making analysis based on the wide array of jutsus we've seen them use. Which Itachi's technique do you think is suitable to withstand Pain's shinra tensei bearing in mind the destructive properties and the force of attack?

I can't think of one o among the stuff he has. But lemme see: shinra tensei is extremely powerful. But I wonder if a quick gokakyou (shebi that's the giant one?) katon no jutsu in the opposite direction combined with the Susano'o would drastically reduce the force of impact.

Logicboy03 in my own opinion used couldn't based on what Itachi said when they were looking for ways to face Jiraiya. And oh, welcome....

I don't quite get the above, bro.

Who shall be Victorious....??

Ihedinobi:
Mehn, I've forgotten too much about that episode. Do you remember what chapter it was so I can go look it up? Thanks for the info, btw.


I can't think of one o among the stuff he has. But lemme see: shinra tensei is extremely powerful. But I wonder if a quick gokakyou (shebi that's the giant one?) katon no jutsu in the opposite direction combined with the Susano'o would drastically reduce the force of impact.


I don't quite get the above, bro.

Link for the bolded

The katon is not a really powerful technique that can counter the shinra tevhnique since it pushes things away unlike the baku that was sucking in things. It seems you're mixing the shinra tensei and futon

The third is about Itachi's comment to Kisame concerning Jiraiya.

Ihedinobi:
Dude, not every question is a yes-or-no question. "Are you a female man?" is an extreme example of questions that cannot be answered with "yes" or "no".

Dude, they're all measurable and identifiable. Look at Sasuke, for example. Before Sasuke acquired the mangekyou, he was an extremely careful, innovative and resourceful fighter. He was always one step ahead of Naruto somehow. When he got the mangekyou though, he coupd dispense with some of his need to be careful and resourceful. He began to rely more on raw power.

The same thing is applicable to many op'ed shinobi in the story. Nagato was just as guilty. He was almost invulnerable. His invulnerability went as far as his abilities were kept secret. As such, he would only spend his intellect on preventing his secrets from getting out. For anything else he simply relied on raw power until he faced someone as powerful as himself, at least. That's why we saw the God Path start fighting with both intellect and brute force when the kyuubi showed six tails.

Itachi is not op'ed, at least as far as we know. But that guy can take Minato on intellect. He's very freaking smart and he'll use that to counter Pein's overpoweredness. That's why I place the fight on high difficulty for both with the win going either way.

Intellect can't be measured by us reader it is subjective to the writer of the manga e.g Sasgay as you pointed out in your post.For this reason only deductions has to be made on cold hard fact. Intellectual power is the plot weapon he (kishi) use to allow the underdog wins in fight he is supposed to lose,it is the same weapon you are using to create a fighting chance for the obvious underdog here. this matchup is not shackled by the narutoverse plot or the writer this is a straight out brawl between pein and Itachi only the jutsu matters.

kimco:

"Im sure..."? naaa howevrr u think about it naruto's custom was very loud. it was used to id him anywhere. realistically it was not ideal...but it's kishimoto....wat hasnt he done before.

madara and hashi were not stealthy. there was no need to be cos their era was mostly all out drawn battles. like i said dnt compare the era. try again

plus who told u they laid down the ninpou rules? there were ninjas before dem.

Seems you forgot that these set up the first hidden village prompting other clans to follow suit and create theirs, so who ate the ninjas before them that create rules when all was in chaos?

Oh and what has stealth gotta do with color of costume? I thought stealth is movement based?

Feraz: Link for the bolded

The katon is not a really powerful technique that can counter the shinra tevhnique since it pushes things away unlike the baku that was sucking in things. It seems you're mixing the shinra tensei and futon

The third is about Itachi's comment to Kisame concerning Jiraiya.

No I'm not. Say, shinra tensei pushes you toward a wall and you blow a strong fireball at the wall, the fireball will oppose some of the force of the shinra tensei. It's like when somebody tries to push you into a wall and you push back at the wall to resist his push. Add to that fireball susano'o and shinra tensei may not do as much harm as it would ordinarily have.

I know it was about what he told Kisame. I just didn't understand what you were saying about it.

Thanks for the link, bro.

who is the chic under ichigo

The fireball will reduce the effect no doubt (maybe from 200km/hr to like 197km/hr) , the reduction might not be so significant

raficki87: what does it profit a ninja to where camouflage when their are chakra sensors,byakugan etc instead of masking ur chakra. Plus the travel mostly on trees. ANBU (mostly assasins) that need the camouflage wear dark colors. Even they wud prioritize chakra masking cuz most of their trget have sensors or subordinates wit it eg during the kage meeting every one came with sensors or sumone wit a similar ability

so they shud wear bright colors and mask their chakra? and u got 3 likes for this. it all goes a long way. and dats wat they do...wear camouflage and mask ur chakra. the fact that they travel on tree shud even be more reason for camouflage. the whole place is mostly flora.

Ihedinobi:
This ^^^

very poor of u man...u're soooo reaching now.

Ihedinobi:
Mehn, I've forgotten too much about that episode. Do you remember what chapter it was so I can go look it up? Thanks for the info, btw.


I can't think of one o among the stuff he has. But lemme see: shinra tensei is extremely powerful. But I wonder if a quick gokakyou (shebi that's the giant one?) katon no jutsu in the opposite direction combined with the Susano'o would drastically reduce the force of impact.


I don't quite get the above, bro.

shinra tensei dat leveled a whole village.? focused on one man? ihedinobi are u for real? it didnt jux level it it caved it in.

Tosyn007:

Seems you forgot that these set up the first hidden village prompting other clans to follow suit and create theirs, so who ate the ninjas before them that create rules when all was in chaos?

Oh and what has stealth gotta do with color of costume? I thought stealth is movement based?

u tot stealth was movement based only...what is happening to this place? why do ninjas even wear black atall to assasinate....i mean real ninjas...why not wear yellow and move swiftly...that wud be nice wont it.


also are u saying dat madara and hashirama pioneered the art of ninja? are u even serious? what they did was create a formal institute to train young ninjas in the art.


this is too easy.

Ihedinobi:
No I'm not. Say, shinra tensei pushes you toward a wall and you blow a strong fireball at the wall, the fireball will oppose some of the force of the shinra tensei. It's like when somebody tries to push you into a wall and you push back at the wall to resist his push. Add to that fireball susano'o and shinra tensei may not do as much harm as it would ordinarily have.

I know it was about what he told Kisame. I just didn't understand what you were saying about it.

Thanks for the link, bro.

oh Jesus...it pushed amateratsu away why in Gods name wud a normal katon fare any better. it is overwhelming force field that tears u apart from close range....even as an endo itachi took tym to recover from it. please only his ultimate defence can help him and even dat one sef....

come again

tayoccu: The fireball will reduce the effect no doubt (maybe from 200km/hr to like 197km/hr) , the reduction might not be so significant

it wnt atall...imo.