₦airaland Forum

Welcome, Guest: Join Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 2,333,213 members, 5,161,253 topics. Date: Thursday, 19 September 2019 at 11:32 AM

Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? - Islam for Muslims (6) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? (1380 Views)

Has Any Muslim Had A Journey From Islam To Atheism And Back To Islam? / I think i am losing my faith to Atheism, i need guidance urgently. / Is Islam Inherently Peace Or Violent? (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (Reply) (Go Down)

Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by tintingz(m): 2:42pm On Jul 25
budaatum:

Context, and individual understanding, is what determines meaning. In particular contexts, "oh believers run" may mean "oh believers increase in your faith and think fast." You know this tingz. It's the only reason you'd even suggest it. I'm absolutely certain we'd argue if anyone interpreted it as "oh believers sit on your ass and refuse to use your brain". It's all about intention see. For scriptural interpretation to be right it has to abide by certain principles.

Let me try out an interpretation on you. Genesis 1:28 reads:

God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

Pretty straightforward you'd say. Now try this: Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground. And God will bless you.

Would you argue that my interpretation is not true or that that is precisely not how things actually work? Is it not true that if one does not "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground." No God will bless one? If you think not, you try it and see. It's however not how many see it though, with most thinking they can sit on their ass and feed on manna.

Let's try another more controversial one.

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

One would think eating the fruit of a tree of knowledge of good and evil ought to make one know what good and evil tastes like and help one know the difference between the two. But here is God allegedly stating that if you remain ignorant you will live. Imagine if I claimed that's not God speaking and what's happened here is:

A group among them have twisted their tongues with the book, that you may suppose it to be from the book. But it is not from the book. And they say, “It is from God,” though it is not from God. And they knowingly speak a lie against God. Sura 3:78

After all, we go on to read that they did not certainly die, and "when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Now tell, would you not claim I am advocating the worship of a snake?

Yet, hear Jesus himself stating:

"Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. John 14:11

Essentially, if you can't believe what you read at least do not deny the evidence that is before your eyes.

So, let's check the evidence. Did Adam and Eve's eyes not open when they ate of the fruit of a tree of knowledge of good and evil so they saw they were Unclad? Did they die?

Now imagine I twist the meaning of words to such an extent to imply that Adam and Eve's eyes did not open and they died when they ate of the fruit of a tree of knowledge of good and evil, would I not be lying, or at the very least, be twisting God into my own ignorant understanding? Yet I bet you that's the understanding many get from the text, which if you doubt can be tested by posting this in the Christian section and watch how many stone me.

And yet here is Jesus parroting Satan and Psalm 82:6 saying:

is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Sounds like what a snake said to me. Or is there no similarity between the above and "when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Or would one argue that one can be like God if one does not know what good and evil tastes like? Jesus sure went about opening eyes and teaching the difference between good and evil!

I've repeatedly pointed out to you, God did not write the Quran. The Angel Gabriel told the Prophet Mohammad who could not write who then recited it to his followers who eventually wrote it down on camel bones. You're going to have to forgive me for assuming a snake who could meddle with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden would not have meddled with whatever we may understand to be the Word of God. For in truth, that which we call God's Word is no better than mere mud until one breaths the breathe of understanding in to it. It is for us therefore to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil so we can determine the difference between the two or our understanding would be wonky to say the least and we remain stupid and ignorant and most certainly die!

As to what the fruit of a tree of knowledge of good and evil might be, I just love how Christ put it, or rather, my own interpretation of how Christ put it:

Thou shalt not just accept one single view that some people give of things or one will be malnourished!

It's why we have brains tingz. And it's why I discuss with you too. For in all honesty, "use your brain" is what you are asking people to do in just about every post of yours that I've read and its why most treat you as we treat Jesus Christ. Except you yourself are not as smart in your doings thank God. Or we would have crucified you by now and made you god tingz!

Ok.

2 Likes 2 Shares

Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by true2god: 5:27pm On Jul 25
budaatum:

Context, and individual understanding, is what determines meaning. In particular contexts, "oh believers run" may mean "oh believers increase in your faith and think fast." You know this tingz. It's the only reason you'd even suggest it. I'm absolutely certain we'd argue if anyone interpreted it as "oh believers sit on your ass and refuse to use your brain". It's all about intention see. For scriptural interpretation to be right it has to abide by certain principles.

Let me try out an interpretation on you. Genesis 1:28 reads:

God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

Pretty straightforward you'd say. Now try this: Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground. And God will bless you.

Would you argue that my interpretation is not true or that that is precisely not how things actually work? Is it not true that if one does not "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground." No God will bless one? If you think not, you try it and see. It's however not how many see it though, with most thinking they can sit on their ass and feed on manna.

Let's try another more controversial one.

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

One would think eating the fruit of a tree of knowledge of good and evil ought to make one know what good and evil tastes like and help one know the difference between the two. But here is God allegedly stating that if you remain ignorant you will live. Imagine if I claimed that's not God speaking and what's happened here is:

A group among them have twisted their tongues with the book, that you may suppose it to be from the book. But it is not from the book. And they say, “It is from God,” though it is not from God. And they knowingly speak a lie against God. Sura 3:78

After all, we go on to read that they did not certainly die, and "when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Now tell, would you not claim I am advocating the worship of a snake?

Yet, hear Jesus himself stating:

"Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. John 14:11

Essentially, if you can't believe what you read at least do not deny the evidence that is before your eyes.

So, let's check the evidence. Did Adam and Eve's eyes not open when they ate of the fruit of a tree of knowledge of good and evil so they saw they were Unclad? Did they die?

Now imagine I twist the meaning of words to such an extent to imply that Adam and Eve's eyes did not open and they died when they ate of the fruit of a tree of knowledge of good and evil, would I not be lying, or at the very least, be twisting God into my own ignorant understanding? Yet I bet you that's the understanding many get from the text, which if you doubt can be tested by posting this in the Christian section and watch how many stone me.

And yet here is Jesus parroting Satan and Psalm 82:6 saying:

is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Sounds like what a snake said to me. Or is there no similarity between the above and "when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Or would one argue that one can be like God if one does not know what good and evil tastes like? Jesus sure went about opening eyes and teaching the difference between good and evil!

I've repeatedly pointed out to you, God did not write the Quran. The Angel Gabriel told the Prophet Mohammad who could not write who then recited it to his followers who eventually wrote it down on camel bones. You're going to have to forgive me for assuming a snake who could meddle with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden would not have meddled with whatever we may understand to be the Word of God. For in truth, that which we call God's Word is no better than mere mud until one breaths the breathe of understanding in to it. It is for us therefore to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil so we can determine the difference between the two or our understanding would be wonky to say the least and we remain stupid and ignorant and most certainly die!

As to what the fruit of a tree of knowledge of good and evil might be, I just love how Christ put it, or rather, my own interpretation of how Christ put it:

Thou shalt not just accept one single view that some people give of things or one will be malnourished!

It's why we have brains tingz. And it's why I discuss with you too. For in all honesty, "use your brain" is what you are asking people to do in just about every post of yours that I've read and its why most treat you as we treat Jesus Christ. Except you yourself are not as smart in your doings thank God. Or we would have crucified you by now and made you god tingz!
Can you read what you just spend over 10mins to compose and type and see how irrational it is, all in a bid to defend a blind argument? At times it is better to ignore instead of creating an irrational rebuttal.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by budaatum: 6:33pm On Jul 25
true2god:
Can you read what you just spend over 10mins to compose and type and see how irrational it is, all in a bid to defend a blind argument? At times it is better to ignore instead of creating an irrational rebuttal.
Sometimes, instead of just admitting ones own ignorance and lack of understanding some will completely fail to take a dose of their own medicine and "ignore" what is way beyond their ability to comprehend and will claim it is others who are irrational.

Its a pity tru2. Thankfully, the person whom it is a response to has way more information on what has been an ongoing conversation over many threads and is not ignorant like you are.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by JeromeBlack: 7:57pm On Jul 25
budaatum:

Sometimes, instead of just admitting ones own ignorance and lack of understanding some will completely fail to take a dose of their own medicine and "ignore" what is way beyond their ability to comprehend and will claim it is others who are irrational.

Its a pity tru2. Thankfully, the person whom it is a response to has way more information on what has been an ongoing conversation over many threads and is not ignorant like you are.

My guy, who has time to read the epistle you posted
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by budaatum: 8:25pm On Jul 25
JeromeBlack:


My guy, who has time to read the epistle you posted
Those whom it concerns of course.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by true2god: 9:10pm On Jul 25
budaatum:

Sometimes, instead of just admitting ones own ignorance and lack of understanding some will completely fail to take a dose of their own medicine and "ignore" what is way beyond their ability to comprehend and will claim it is others who are irrational.

Its a pity tru2. Thankfully, the person whom it is a response to has way more information on what has been an ongoing conversation over many threads and is not ignorant like you are.
Bro, what you wrote did not make sense. Don't try to make sense out of a nonsense. What you wrote up there is 100% nonsense and your ummah will accept the fact that your wrote nonsense.

Next time when you write, proofread your work and ensure that your audience are well communicated. You write for people to read and understand and not for your personal 'consumption'. I know you are intelligent but learn when people try to point out your limitations: don't be arrogant.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by Saucyxo: 11:25am On Jul 26
JeromeBlack:



Where are you?

In my house.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by JeromeBlack: 11:26am On Jul 26
Saucyxo:


In my house.

Cool. I thought you left nairaland.


Keep safe kiss

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by Saucyxo: 11:29am On Jul 26
JeromeBlack:


Cool. I thought you left nairaland.


Keep safe kiss

smiley Thanks.

I hope you've been nice to my muslim brothers and sisters.

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by budaatum: 6:55pm On Jul 28
true2god:
Bro, what you wrote did not make sense. Don't try to make sense out of a nonsense. What you wrote up there is 100% nonsense and your ummah will accept the fact that your wrote nonsense.

Next time when you write, proofread your work and ensure that your audience are well communicated. You write for people to read and understand and not for your personal 'consumption'. I know you are intelligent but learn when people try to point out your limitations: don't be arrogant.
First, True2god, you are correct. I do not write for my own consumption. I write to be understood by others and I happen to believe I'm good at it, at expressing myself at least. And I surely must have proofread it because in all honesty, only one single i is out of place. You might try and find it, and any others, which I hope you'd accept indicates my limitations.

I am buda. Very arrogant buda! And I want my limitations pointed out because I then get to see them and improve on them and become even more very arrogant buda. That said, I apologise for calling you ignorant. You aren't ignorant. Your response definitely was ignorant but you yourself are definitely not ignorant. I am sorry. Please accept my apology for calling you ignorant instead of your response which was an ignorant response to what you had not fully understood.

I happen to think that I conveyed a particular point, one that I myself claimed would not go down well with any ummah whoever she Is. I hinted I might be crucified for it for it is devil worship for some, which if you understood - unless we'd claim I foretold - would be rather ironic since your reaction was indeed the kneejerk reaction I predicted. I think you think I ought to parrot what others say lol so you can hear what you've always heard. Yet I see you have been at work on some past posts to know that buda is use buda own head arrogant buda, and not some use ummah head buda.

Could you, now that you've gone back and read a few of my posts, kindly pick a bit of what you say is "irrational" and "100% nonsense" and tell me how so? Let's see first if you understand at all.

Again, I, the very arrogant use own head buda apologise for being rude to you, I am sorry. Know that this was proofread 10 times and contains imperfections.
Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by JeromeBlack: 6:58pm On Jul 28
budaatum:

First, True2god, you are correct. I do not write for my own consumption. I write to be understood by others and I happen to believe I'm good at it, at expressing myself at least. And I surely must have proofread it because in all honesty, only one single i is out of place. You might try and find it, and any others, which I hope you'd accept indicates my limitations.

I am buda. Very arrogant buda! And I want my limitations pointed out because I then get to see them and improve on them and become even more very arrogant buda. That said, I apologise for calling you ignorant. You aren't ignorant. Your response definitely was ignorant but you yourself are definitely not ignorant. I am sorry. Please accept my apology for calling you ignorant instead of your response which was an ignorant response to what you had not fully understood.

I happen to think that I conveyed a particular point, one that I myself claimed would not go down well with any ummah whoever she Is. I hinted I might be crucified for it for it is devil worship for some, which if you understood - unless we'd claim I foretold - would be rather ironic since your reaction was indeed the kneejerk reaction I predicted. I think you think I ought to parrot what others say lol so you can hear what you've always heard. Yet I see you have been at work on some past posts to know that buda is use buda own head arrogant buda, and not some use ummah head buda.

Could you, now that you've gone back and read a few of my posts, kindly pick a bit of what you say is "irrational" and "100% nonsense" and tell me how so? Let's see first if you understand at all.

Again, I, the very arrogant use own head buda apologise for being rude to you, I am sorry. Know that this was proofread 10 times and contains imperfections.


Buda, truth be told, a lot of your posts give me headache. You write as if you learnt English from a non English speaking country.

You write well but in a very weird way.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by budaatum: 7:15pm On Jul 28
JeromeBlack:



Buda, truth be told, a lot of your posts give me headache. You write as if you learnt English from a non English speaking country.

You write well but in a very weird way.
The headache is intentional. I give you a headache because you are not used to using your head just as your legs will hurt if you're not used to running 10k.

I'm knocking on your head with my English JB and you just can't not read it, lol. But with the exercise, you'll run 10k easy. I promise.

Questions, meanwhile, are always welcomed.

Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by true2god: 6:07am On Jul 29
budaatum:

First, True2god, you are correct. I do not write for my own consumption. I write to be understood by others and I happen to believe I'm good at it, at expressing myself at least. And I surely must have proofread it because in all honesty, only one single i is out of place. You might try and find it, and any others, which I hope you'd accept indicates my limitations.

I am buda. Very arrogant buda! And I want my limitations pointed out because I then get to see them and improve on them and become even more very arrogant buda. That said, I apologise for calling you ignorant. You aren't ignorant. Your response definitely was ignorant but you yourself are definitely not ignorant. I am sorry. Please accept my apology for calling you ignorant instead of your response which was an ignorant response to what you had not fully understood.

I happen to think that I conveyed a particular point, one that I myself claimed would not go down well with any ummah whoever she Is. I hinted I might be crucified for it for it is devil worship for some, which if you understood - unless we'd claim I foretold - would be rather ironic since your reaction was indeed the kneejerk reaction I predicted. I think you think I ought to parrot what others say lol so you can hear what you've always heard. Yet I see you have been at work on some past posts to know that buda is use buda own head arrogant buda, and not some use ummah head buda.

Could you, now that you've gone back and read a few of my posts, kindly pick a bit of what you say is "irrational" and "100% nonsense" and tell me how so? Let's see first if you understand at all.

Again, I, the very arrogant use own head buda apologise for being rude to you, I am sorry. Know that this was proofread 10 times and contains imperfections.
Apology noted and under consideration. You are great.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Why Is Islam Afraid Of Atheism (and Apostasy)? by budaatum: 6:50am On Jul 29
true2god:
Apology noted and under consideration. You are great.
Don't know about great, yet, but arrogant?

Very arrogant use own head buda got primary, school cert, degrees and multiple masters and phds in various fields in it.

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (Reply)

Stop Fuelling Hatred Between Muslims And Non-muslims. / My Sincere Advice Monsieur Toba / French Consul (regional Ambassador) In Kuwait Accepts Islam After Fajr This Morn

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2019 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 257
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.