@SysUser,

SysUser:



You babs787 , you have simply tried your best to trivialise issues and divert attention to something else from issues raised, while at the same time, you have not answer questions raised. All you have done is repeat the same mantra or dodge it by saying things like "okay" or "I will give you prove"

Hahahahaha!!

It did not even take you time to realize the artful dodger and con-artist that babs787 and his folks are! Nothing more for me to add - you have well captured the essence of their Islamic duplicity!

All the Christians chaired by chairperson, matron Princess Pilgrim.1, are not satisfied with straight, honest to goodness answers. Even it it stared them down, from now till the last person on earth perishes. They forgot that Ka'aba is a very small Cubical, surrounded by the Building, at least on more one cardinal direction, which both make up, the Mosque called 'Masjid Haram.' On the remaining cardinal sides that were not covered of the Ka'aba by the Masjid building are covered by traffic pathway/roadway. This masjid Haram being the centre is surrounded outwardly by the rest of Makka itself. Yet even in the Masjid Haram, everyone, turn there faces to this Cubical called Ka'aba to pray. Indeed the whole of the world turn their faces to it, in prayer, the Ka'aba that is. Those on the west of it will to it, they will be facing west. Those on the north will face it and the south will face south. Why making a big issue of it, after a clear and sound explanation has been provided? We do not face the east, we face the Ka'aba which is our Qublah, a direction! Get a life, Christians!

How come the Nigerians Christians with their tinnie winnie knowledge will restrict us all to the 'East,' as our direction of prayer, knowing fully well that the ka'aba is our Qublah! They do not even realised that every Satellite launched into space can not function if the satellite is not orientated to focus on the Ka'aba. Thats part of the miracles of the Building! There is no other structure of its kind in any religion and any part of the world.

olabowale:

All the Christians chaired by chairperson, matron Princess Pilgrim.1, are not satisfied with straight, honest to goodness answers. Even it it stared them down, from now till the last person on earth perishes. They forgot that Ka'aba is a very small Cubical, surrounded by the Building, at least on more one cardinal direction, which both make up, the Mosque called 'Masjid Haram.' On the remaining cardinal sides that were not covered of the Ka'aba by the Masjid building are covered by traffic pathway/roadway. This masjid Haram being the centre is surrounded outwardly by the rest of Makka itself. Yet even in the Masjid Haram, everyone, turn there faces to this Cubical called Ka'aba to pray. Indeed the whole of the world turn their faces to it, in prayer, the Ka'aba that is. Those on the west of it will to it, they will be facing west. Those on the north will face it and the south will face south. Why making a big issue of it, after a clear and sound explanation has been provided? We do not face the east, we face the Ka'aba which is our Qublah, a direction! Get a life, Christians!

How come the Nigerians Christians with their tinnie winnie knowledge will restrict us all to the 'East,' as our direction of prayer, knowing fully well that the ka'aba is our Qublah! They do not even realised that every Satellite launched into space can not function if the satellite is not orientated to focus on the Ka'aba. Thats part of the miracles of the Building! There is no other structure of its kind in any religion and any part of the world.

scientific evidence please.
not the one about catarrh being the devil flowing down your nostrils,evidence,I'm waiting.

@Nwando: Go ask any satellite launching company! Call NASA. Afterall you are a die hard card carrying Republican! Yup, I heard you. If you do not know where to call, just let me know. I am not a Republican, but I have connections. I can hook you up. You will gradually see the different between a real man, me, Alhamdulillah, and the the boys you know! I will show you that I follow the Comforter, Muhammad (as), who calls people to remembrance of what the truth Jesus spake and teached what Jesus left out! You can call the Jet propulsion lab, in California.

Tell me your weaknesses and your limit. InshaAllah, this Muslim will get you where you need to be. I got connection. I can also give you ordinary satellite company in New York City, so that you can find this things out. The easiest thing for you, to do yet, since you live in a backwater part of the USA, is to call your local cable company, they can find the information for you.

If all your effort amounts to zero, then just say so and I will provide assistance, by Allah. Now, if you findout that this is the truth, what will you do? You will abandoned your image worshipping as you have set up Jesus as partner to his Creator? You will come to Islam, with your husband, submitting your will to your Creator? What will you do? This is what I wanna know? As they say, whats in it for me? I only want you to come to the light and be out of the darkness that you have buried yourself in since you turned 17! So make the commitment right now so that the Nairalanders can see how truthful you are, in your conviction.

And all I have to make is just 1 phone call! How about that? I will be talking to its Director or someone who will talk to him directly in honor of my request! Thats Allah's favor I can not deny.

@olabowale,

olabowale:

All the Christians chaired by chairperson, matron Princess Pilgrim.1, are not satisfied with straight, honest to goodness answers.

Oh my goodness! Alhaji, lego the newly improved diction that you borrowed, and please show us where YOU have offered the "honest to goodness answers" you are noising here!

olabowale:

Even it it stared them down, from now till the last person on earth perishes. They forgot that Ka'aba is a very small Cubical, surrounded by the Building, at least on more one cardinal direction, which both make up, the Mosque called 'Masjid Haram.'

Nobody forgot anything - especially they did not forget that the Kaaba was the rendezvous of 360 idols!

As for the cardinal directions, there are only 4 of them. I wonder then how Muhammad thought of TWO Easts (abi you don forget say e dey your Qur'an)?

This noise you are making in every thread and trailing me like you lost a nose ring, please let me be! You know me already: na my own I sidon jeje until. . .

If you don't behave, I go bleach you before New Year O!

@Pilgrim.1: Trailing you, you said? What an importance! As the Yorubas say: Alara ni ma ngbe ara e ga. Adiye bere ko to wole! Lets leave that alone. After this response from me, you are to me as if you are on vacation. I respect you, but I do not worship you. You have nothing special on you, other than you are part of Nairaland, and I just can not let you perish without warning you. This is the only reason I tried hard to engage you in dialogue. Remember that you said you may honor my request about wanting to speak with your Dad? Its all about religion, and nothing more!

The two east is accompanied by the two west, in many Quranic verses. Duh! A person who has honesty will speak the truth. Not half truth. I know speaking the truth is very foreign to you. Conveniently, you did not touch on the Satellite orientation towards the Ka'aba for it to work with greatest efficiency. You are an engineering student, you should not forget to ask your department chair of go directly to the Dean of school of Engineering. Somebody in your school aught to know. Is it because of the fact that on the ka'aba, all geoforces is Zero? (This is my own hypothesis, and it may also be true). But I make it very clear that it is my idea. Unlike the three heads of god idea of the Christains, which is riddled with holes like Swiss Cheese. By the time we in Islam begin to talk about it, it has become shredded like Mozerella. The truth of the matter is that Ka'aba is unique and it is the only structure and place on this earth that has that quality. Maybe because it is the center of the earth and of course because there is a similar structure like it directly in the same position in the Seventh heaven? The one man who went to heavens from the earth and came back, (not thousands of years or millions of years or billions of years or trillions of years or whatever, and no other person has done it) and no other man was given this position to witness to all mankind, it the same man who you rejected! He had this whole unparalleled celestrial journey in just a mere part of one night! Thats a sign of what his Lord had bestowed on him from His favor. No surprised that the process of Islam on mankind that began from the moment of the creation of Adam was completed on this honorably noble Prophet and Messenger; Muhammad bin Abdallah bin bani Hashim.

And today, by Allah, there is no single idol in Ka'aba! Thats another miracle; where there was 360, in one single moment there was zero and had remain so in over 1400 years! But for you, you now belong to a religion that has a crucifix or cross, as a symbol. Some crucifixes with no man hanging on it and the rest with a man hanging on it, who wears nothing except a small wrap that only covers the Instruments area. In Islam that is pure nudity! If all of the glorification of the cross, along with the man who is objectified on it is not Idol worshipping to you, in my book, it is pure idolatry.

You have to see how the Jewish jewelers and the Korean/Chinese, etc, are making mints from your kind of people. The bling-blingers! I do not want to be you on the day of Judgement, if you die other than being a Muslim! And by the way, just to know if you even realise that your Bible is confusing, to a person who is not driven by "BLIND FAITH," when Jesus is coming down and you people fly off to meet him in the clouds: (1) Will he be taking you directly to Christian heavens, (without touching down on the ground)? (2) Or he will tell you to hang on in the clouds for some time, (while he comes down to the earth to kill the Antichrist, and rules with justice, because the righteous must be the inheritor of the earth, if we factor in the Psalm verse, which you people rave so much about)? (3) And how are the Christians who will war against the disbelieving Jews going to prosecute the war, from the air/cloud since you are already there, (using apache copters and bunker busters to kill them, what)? (4) And finally if you are already in the air/cloud, is the earth going to be your heavens, or you just don't know? (5) And the fight between you and the disbelieving Jews does not make sense, since your enemy is truly the Muslim, who says that your god is no GOD, give us pure and sensible understanding of these issues. Use your Bible and your own engineering wisdom, even though, you will not be able to do it. Lets know how smart you are and how direct is your Bible to matters of great importance, saving the soul!

@olabowale,

I have often appealed that you make sense in your posts, but your passions would deprive you yet of the same! Besides, even after severally warning you to be respectful of other people's convictions, this is how you have continued to address the Christian faith:

olabowale:

Unlike the three heads of god idea of the Christains, which is riddled with holes like Swiss Cheese.

My dear, please be notified - it is not only Muslims who can say unpalatable things about other people's convictions. Be warned once again. Because when I begin to expose the many things straight out of Muhammad's mouth, I hope you will not be in need of anti-depressants.


Secondly:

olabowale:

The two east is accompanied by the two west, in many Quranic verses. Duh! A person who has honesty will speak the truth. Not half truth.

Having said all you did, WHERE did you seek to enuciate the matter of TWO Easts and TWO Wests? You merely accused me of not showing 'honesty' - and I should assume that the Qur'an never mentioned "TWO easts"? This is not in reference to other measurements of locations - that was a direct reply to your assumption of CARDINAL locations!! You do not have more than 4 "cardinal" locations - and when you have TWO Easts and TWO Wests, that amounts to 4 already! Where then do you place the North and the South among the cardinals - for that would make 6 "cardinal" locations!

Dear olabowale, I think your tantrums should cease, please. I often sound out enough warning before I answer people. Where they fail to take my warnings on board, they have never been able to pick themselves up from the dust afterwards.

Q .why do muslim face d east in prayer
A. -Prayer is an act of communicatin with God n varies from religion to religion
In islam their is a difference btw Dua n salat (both r 4ms of prayers).
-Dua-is the verbal prayer 2 Allah (God) can b done anytime n most places.
-Salat-the five obligatory/optional prayers that a Muslim must perform everyday,which has d sync movement of standin,prostration,bowin down n sittin(its only salat dat requires facin d east).

-Thus have We made of you an Ummah justly balanced that ye might be witnesses over
the nations and the Apostle a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qiblah
to which thou wast used only to test those who followed the Apostle from those who
would turn on their heels (from the faith). Indeed it was (a change) momentous except
to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah make your faith of no effect. For Allah
is to all people most surely full of kindness Most Merciful.(Q2:143-144)
To each is a goal to which Allah turns him; then strive together (as in a race) toward all
that is good. Wheresoever ye are Allah will bring you together. For Allah hath power
over all things(Q2:148)
We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens; now shall We turn thee
to a Qiblah that shall please thee. Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred
Mosque; wherever ye are turn your faces in that direction. The people of the book
know well that that is the truth from their Lord nor is Allah unmindful of what they do
QIBLAR-it is the direction that Muslims face when they do their salat. It is in the direction of the Ka'bah in
Mecca.
-in a gatherin their has 2b a focal point to create order cos salat wld b impposible in a large crowd if everybody is 2 maintain d row arraingment of salat,movin in sync n facin diff directions.(a lot of collisions)
Examples of need 4 focal point n order outside islam.
1.church-everybody faces d preacher in rows.
2.school-every student faces d teacher in rows.
3.cinema-every on looker faces d screen.

Q. why is d ka,aba sacred
A. Allah asked two of his messengers (prophets) Ibrahim (AS) n his son Ismail (AS) (Abraham n Ishmeal) 2 build d house.

"O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley without
cultivation by thy Sacred House; in order O our Lord that they may establish
regular prayer: so fill the hearts of some among men with love towards them
and feed them with Fruits: so that they may give thanks (Q14:37)

And remember Abraham and Isma`il raised the foundations of the House (with this
prayer): "Our Lord! accept (this service) from us for thou art the All-Hearing the
All-Knowing.(Q2:127).

Q. only 1 east on d cardinal points
A. yes thier is only 1 east but we don't use d compass cos islam came around 1400 years ago so d use of a natural concept was used,d risin of d sun from d east.this fact is constant irrespective of country or season.
-d location of Ka'aba is d center of d earth

Q. Idols in d ka'aba
A. their is along gap btw d time of Ibrahim (AS) n Muhammad (SAW) within that time Arabia went back 2 idol worship so they used d ka'aba as a storage place.so when islam came to mecca d idols where removed from d Ka'aba by muhammad (SAW).

Q. Is the ka'aba n sacred mosque same?
A. no
-There are 3 sacred mosques,2 in the kindom of saudi arabia n 1 in jerusalem.
1. The prophet's mosque (saudi arabia,madina)
2. Masjid Al aqsa (israel,jerusalem).
3. Masjid Al haram (saudi arabia,mecca). this mosque houses d ka'aba,it's the largest with a capacity of about 2 million worshippers.

Q. do they worship d moon during d day
A. 1st n foremost we worship Allah not d moon,our salat timing ranges from sunrise to far beyond d sunset.

@Pilgrim.!

Dear olabowale, I think your tantrums should cease, please. I often sound out enough warning before I answer people. Where they fail to take my warnings on board, they have never been able to pick themselves up from the dust afterwards

: Pue arrogance. Excite yourself to pardition. I think less of your capability. You have not impressed me from the time I noticed you on nairaland. That you think you are more than a greater beginning than just the fusion of your father's sperm with your mother's egg is pure ego trip. There is nothing more for me to say. Remember that my backyard is empty? I will leave you be. There are other people who are not as pompous. I will discuss with them.

Two east means two directions. Two west means another two directions. Adding the two together is 4. End of story. Ypu do not have to be an engineer to know this.

Hi again @9ja,

Thanks for your calm rejoinder. I do hope that you will keep the trend, because quite often we get to see Muslims who have desserted reason and substituted noise as a better alternative!

Anyhow, there is something that caught my attention in your reply:

9ja:

Q. only 1 east on d cardinal points
A. yes their is only 1 eas[/b]t but we don't use d compass because islam came around 1400 years ago so d use of a natural concept was used,d risin of d sun from d east.this fact is constant irrespective of country or season.

Right. There is "only [b]1 East" - straight and simple. Thank you.

Wherefore did the Qur'an mention TWO Easts?

@olabowale,

olabowale:

@Pilgrim.! : Pue arrogance. Excite yourself to pardition. I think less of your capability. You have not impressed me from the time I noticed you on nairaland. That you think you are more than a greater beginning than just the fusion of your father's sperm with your mother's egg is pure ego trip. There is nothing more for me to say. Remember that my backyard is empty? I will leave you be. There are other people who are not as pompous. I will discuss with them.

You don belleful? Abi you are still frantic like you're unable to find your lost nose-ring! What's all the bloviates for, anyway?

olabowale:

Two east means two directions. Two west means another two directions.

Lol. . . and what happened to North and South? Besides, what has happened to your assertion about the CARDINAL points?

olabowale:

Adding the two together is 4. End of story.

Adding the two together is 4. . . minus the North and South! When you add the North and South, you're talking about 6 CARDINAL locations! Whatever happened to simple Islamic arithmetic?

olabowale:

Ypu do not have to be an engineer to know this.

Of course not! Toddlers know the difference between 4 and 6 - and you can't grift them with your bunco about those CARDINAL locations!

What is the Kaaba?:
The Kaaba is Islam’s holiest site and, as such, knowing more about it is critical to knowing more about Islam itself. The history of the Kaaba is intertwined with the origin of Islam because it appears that Muhammad used the Kaaba for political purposes, promoting new stories about the Kaaba's history in order to connect his new created religion with ancient Judaism. These efforts failed, but the stories remain and continue to feed the idea that Islam is the most valid religion. Knowing more about the Kaaba thus means knowing that not everything Muslims believe about Islam and Muhammad is true.
The Role of the Kaaba in Islam:
The Kaaba (Ka’aba, Ka’bah, “Cube,” “House of God”) is a Muslim shrine located in a square adjacent to the Grand Mosque in Mecca, Islam’s holiest city. The surrounding square has been enlarged to over 16,000 square meters and can accommodate over 300,000 Muslim pilgrims. When Muslims pray the required five times each day, they face not simply Mecca, but the Kaaba in Mecca; Muslims praying in Mecca turn towards the Kaaba instead of facing just any direction. The true origin and nature of the Kaaba is disputed, but Muslims treat it as holy anyway.
The Kaaba Before Islam:
Muslims acknowledge a pre-Islam Kaaba, but primarily in the context of the religious traditions they believe they are continuing. Before Islam was created by Muhammad, the Kaaba appears to have been an important pagan shrine in Mecca. What this means is that most recent religious traditions which Islam is continuing are all pagan; critics argue that this helped promote conversion to Islam, while the stories connecting the Kaaba to ancient Jewish stories were created in order to separate Muslim beliefs from paganism.

The Kaaba and Muhammad:
When Muhammad received his revelations from God, the Kaaba was under the control of one of the most important tribes of Mecca, the Quraysh. It was used as a shrine for pagan idols, especially al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat, known together as al-Gharaniq (Daughters of God), and Hubal, a marriage god. When Muhammad took control of Mecca he cleaned out the idols and dedicated the Kaaba to God. Christians converting pagans in Europe frequently rededicated ancient temples, holy sites, and holy days in order to facilitate the change in religion; Muhammad was likely doing the same for Islam.

The Kaaba in Muslim Mythology:
According to Muslim traditions, Adam built the original Kaaba as a copy of and directly below God’s throne in heaven. This Kaaba was destroyed during the great Flood, leaving behind nothing but the foundation. The current Kaaba was rebuilt by Abraham (Ibrahim) and his son Ishmael (Ismail). A gilded cage near the Kaaba holds a stone preserving a footprint of Abraham. There is no reference to the Kaaba in ancient Jews texts and these Muslim traditions are likely just an attempt to establish a more ancient pedigree for Islam — perhaps in part to help Muhammad convert the Jews, which ultimately failed anyway.

The Kaaba and the Hajj Today:
At least once in their lives, every Muslim is supposed to make a pilgrimage (hajj) to Mecca. The central event of the hajj is a visit to the Kaaba: Muslims walk en masse counterclockwise around the Kaaba seven times (tawaf). This ritual is supposed to represent the angels walking around the throne of God and allows Muslims to symbolically enter the presence of God. For something so holy and representative of Islam, the hajj is often marred by great suffering as large numbers of people are templed under the feet of zealous crowds.

The Kaaba and the Black Stone of Mecca:
Measuring about 12 inches in diameter, the Black Stone is probably a meteorite, though no scientific tests have ever been done on it. When they walk around the Kaaba, Muslim pilgrims often try to reach out and touch or kiss the Black Stone. Today it is worn and cracked from centuries of pilgrimages and is only held together by a wide silver band. Muslims insist that the Black Stone is not an idol: prayers are directed to God alone. In practice, Muslim behavior appears to treat the black stone like an idol; such practice may be consistent with pre-Islamic, pagan ritual practices involving the Kaaba.

The Kaaba, the Black Stone, and Muslim Sins:
The Black Stone is believed to have been a gift from God to Adam when he and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden and later became a symbol of God’s covenant with Abraham, Ismail, and thus the Muslim community. Curiously, there is no record of this in ancient Jewish texts — a fact that would be consistent with Muhammad making up the story in order to connect his new religion with ancient Judaism. Muslims believe it was originally white, but went black by absorbing sins; it thus serves as a symbol of human degradation and need for God’s forgiveness.

The Quran and the Kaaba:
Despite its importance in the practice of Islam, the Kaaba isn't mentioned too often in the Quran:
We have rendered the shrine (the Kaaba) a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary. You may use Abraham’s shrine as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ishmael: “You shall purify My house for those who visit, those who live there, and those who bow and prostrate.” , And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House, (Abraham prayed): Our Lord! Accept from us (this duty). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower. (2:125-127)

Lo! (the mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwah are among the indications of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who is on pilgrimage to the House (of God) or visiteth it, to go around them (as the pagan custom is). And he who doeth good of his own accord, (for him) lo! Allah is Responsive, Aware. (2:158)


I also like everyone Muslim, Pagan, Christian ,and all to visit this sites and get some understanding about Islam. I hope many will have a rethink and have a u-turn.

www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm

www.mb-soft.com/believe/txh/kaaba.htm

www.hajinformation.com/main/j1091.htm

http://www.geocities.com/jairama1/kaaba.htm



What is the Kaaba?:  
The Kaaba is Islam’s holiest site and, as such, knowing more about it is critical to knowing more about Islam itself. The history of the Kaaba is intertwined with the origin of Islam because it appears that Muhammad used the Kaaba for political purposes, promoting new stories about the Kaaba's history in order to connect his new created religion with ancient Judaism. These efforts failed, but the stories remain and continue to feed the idea that Islam is the most valid religion. Knowing more about the Kaaba thus means knowing that not everything Muslims believe about Islam and Muhammad is true.
The Role of the Kaaba in Islam:
The Kaaba (Ka’aba, Ka’bah, “Cube,” “House of God”) is a Muslim shrine located in a square adjacent to the Grand Mosque in Mecca, Islam’s holiest city. The surrounding square has been enlarged to over 16,000 square meters and can accommodate over 300,000 Muslim pilgrims. When Muslims pray the required five times each day, they face not simply Mecca, but the Kaaba in Mecca; Muslims praying in Mecca turn towards the Kaaba instead of facing just any direction. The true origin and nature of the Kaaba is disputed, but Muslims treat it as holy anyway.
The Kaaba Before Islam:
Muslims acknowledge a pre-Islam Kaaba, but primarily in the context of the religious traditions they believe they are continuing. Before Islam was created by Muhammad, the Kaaba appears to have been an important pagan shrine in Mecca. What this means is that most recent religious traditions which Islam is continuing are all pagan; critics argue that this helped promote conversion to Islam, while the stories connecting the Kaaba to ancient Jewish stories were created in order to separate Muslim beliefs from paganism.


The Kaaba and Muhammad:  
When Muhammad received his revelations from God, the Kaaba was under the control of one of the most important tribes of Mecca, the Quraysh. It was used as a shrine for pagan idols, especially al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat, known together as al-Gharaniq (Daughters of God), and Hubal, a marriage god. When Muhammad took control of Mecca he cleaned out the idols and dedicated the Kaaba to God. Christians converting pagans in Europe frequently rededicated ancient temples, holy sites, and holy days in order to facilitate the change in religion; Muhammad was likely doing the same for Islam.

The Kaaba in Muslim Mythology:  
According to Muslim traditions, Adam built the original Kaaba as a copy of and directly below God’s throne in heaven. This Kaaba was destroyed during the great Flood, leaving behind nothing but the foundation. The current Kaaba was rebuilt by Abraham (Ibrahim) and his son Ishmael (Ismail). A gilded cage near the Kaaba holds a stone preserving a footprint of Abraham. There is no reference to the Kaaba in ancient Jews texts and these Muslim traditions are likely just an attempt to establish a more ancient pedigree for Islam — perhaps in part to help Muhammad convert the Jews, which ultimately failed anyway.

The Kaaba and the Hajj Today:  
At least once in their lives, every Muslim is supposed to make a pilgrimage (hajj) to Mecca. The central event of the hajj is a visit to the Kaaba: Muslims walk en masse counterclockwise around the Kaaba seven times (tawaf). This ritual is supposed to represent the angels walking around the throne of God and allows Muslims to symbolically enter the presence of God. For something so holy and representative of Islam, the hajj is often marred by great suffering as large numbers of people are templed under the feet of zealous crowds.

The Kaaba and the Black Stone of Mecca:  
Measuring about 12 inches in diameter, the Black Stone is probably a meteorite, though no scientific tests have ever been done on it. When they walk around the Kaaba, Muslim pilgrims often try to reach out and touch or kiss the Black Stone. Today it is worn and cracked from centuries of pilgrimages and is only held together by a wide silver band. Muslims insist that the Black Stone is not an idol: prayers are directed to God alone. In practice, Muslim behavior appears to treat the black stone like an idol; such practice may be consistent with pre-Islamic, pagan ritual practices involving the Kaaba.

The Kaaba, the Black Stone, and Muslim Sins:  
The Black Stone is believed to have been a gift from God to Adam when he and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden and later became a symbol of God’s covenant with Abraham, Ismail, and thus the Muslim community. Curiously, there is no record of this in ancient Jewish texts — a fact that would be consistent with Muhammad making up the story in order to connect his new religion with ancient Judaism. Muslims believe it was originally white, but went black by absorbing sins; it thus serves as a symbol of human degradation and need for God’s forgiveness.

The Quran and the Kaaba:  
Despite its importance in the practice of Islam, the Kaaba isn't mentioned too often in the Quran:
We have rendered the shrine (the Kaaba) a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary. You may use Abraham’s shrine as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ishmael: “You shall purify My house for those who visit, those who live there, and those who bow and prostrate.” , And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House, (Abraham prayed): Our Lord! Accept from us (this duty). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower. (2:125-127)

Lo! (the mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwah are among the indications of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who is on pilgrimage to the House (of God) or visiteth it, to go around them (as the pagan custom is). And he who doeth good of his own accord, (for him) lo! Allah is Responsive, Aware. (2:158)


I also like everyone Muslim, Pagan, Christian ,and all to visit this sites and get some understanding about Islam. I hope many will have a rethink and have a u-turn.

www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm

www.mb-soft.com/believe/txh/kaaba.htm

www.hajinformation.com/main/j1091.htm

@dafidixone


Is it your dishonesty that made you posted same thing twice ?


Now read what one of your brother supplied:


http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/kabah.htm

The small, cubed building known as the Kaba [Ka'bah] may not rival skyscrapers in height or mansions in width, but its impact on history and human beings is unmatched. The Kaba is the building towards which Muslims face five times a day, everyday, in prayer. This has been the case since the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) over 1400 years ago.


The Size of the Kaba


The current height of the Kaba is 39 feet, 6 inches and total size comes to 627 square feet. The inside room of the Kaba is 13 x 9 meters. The Kaba's walls are one meter wide. The floor inside is 2.2 meters higher than the place where people perform Tawaf. The ceiling and roof are two levels made out of wood. They were reconstructed with teak which is capped with stainless steel. The walls are all made of stone. The stones inside are unpolished, while the ones outside are polished.


This small building has been constructed and reconstructed by Prophets Adam, Ibrahim [Abraham], Ismail [Ishmael] and Muhammad (peace be upon them all). [Prophets of Allah]. No other building has had this honor. Yet, not very much is [commonly] known about the details of this small but significant building. Did you know the Kaba was reconstructed as recently as close to four years ago? Did you know that the Kaba has been subjected to danger by natural disasters like flooding, as well as human attacks? If you didn't keep reading, you'll find some rarely heard of information discussed below and discover facts about the Kaba many are unaware of.


The Other Names of the Kaba


Literally, Kaba in Arabic means a high place with respect and prestige. The word Kaba may also be a derivative of a word meaning cube. Some of these other names include: Bait ul Ateeq which means, according to one meaning, the earliest and ancient. According to the second meaning, it means independent and liberating. Both meanings could be taken.


The History of the Kaba


Scholars and historians say that the Kaba has been reconstructed between five to 12 times. The very first construction of the Kaba was done by Prophet Adam. Allah [swt, glory be to Him] says in the Quran that this was the first house that was built for humanity to worship Allah. After this, Prophet Ibrahim and Ismail rebuilt the Kaba. The measurements of the Kaba's Ibrahimic foundation are as follows:


- the eastern wall was 48 feet and 6 inches
- the Hateem side wall was 33 feet
- the side between the black stone and the Yemeni corner was 30 feet
- the Western side was 46.5 feet


Following this, there were several constructions before Prophet Muhammad's time.


Prophet Muhammad participated in one of its reconstructions before he became a Prophet. After a flash flood, the Kaba was damaged and its walls cracked. It needed rebuilding. This responsibility was divided among the Quraish's four tribes. Prophet Muhammad helped with this reconstruction. Once the walls were erected, it was time to place the Black Stone, (the Hajar ul Aswad) on the eastern wall of the Kaba.


Arguments erupted about who would have the honor of putting the Black Stone in its place. A fight was about to break out over the issue, when Abu Umayyah, Makkah's oldest man, proposed that the first man to enter the gate of the mosque the following morning would decide the matter. That man was the Prophet. The Makkans were ecstatic. "This is the trustworthy one (Al-Ameen)," they shouted in a chorus. "This is Muhammad". He came to them and they asked him to decide on the matter. He agreed.


Prophet Muhammad proposed a solution that all agreed to putting the Black Stone on a cloak, the elders of each of the clans held on to one edge of the cloak and carried the stone to its place. The Prophet then picked up the stone and placed it on the wall of the Kaba.


Since the tribe of Quraish did not have sufficient funds, this reconstruction did not include the entire foundation of the Kaba as built by Prophet Ibrahim. This is the first time the Kaba acquired the cubical shape it has now unlike the rectangle shape which it had earlier. The portion of the Kaba left out is called Hateem now,


What is inside the Kaba?


Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi is the president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA). He had the opportunity to go inside the Kaba in October 1998. In an interview with Sound Vision, he described the following features:


- there are two pillars inside (others report 3 pillars)
- there is a table on the side to put items like perfume
- there are two lantern-type lamps hanging from the ceiling
- the space can accommodate about 50 people
- there are no electric lights inside
- the walls and the floors are of the marble
- there are no windows inside
- there is only one door
- the upper inside walls of the Kaba were covered with some kind of curtain with the Kalima written on it.

@dafidixone

I saw this in one of threads too. It will enlighten you more on Kabah
http://i-cias.com/e.o/kaaba.htm

@babs787,

babs787:

Is it your dishonesty that made you posted same thing twice

Perhaps it is Muslim hypocrisy and dishonesty that make them post the same material in several threads. You should have been worried about your own hypocrisy in posting a question twice in the same thread to the same person before hyperventilating as usual here. See the links:

#1. (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-99773.128.html#msg1817434)

#2. (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-99773.128.html#msg1821001)

If you are doing the very same thing that you want to deride in others, then what's the complaining here all about?

babs787:

Now read what one of your brother supplied:

http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/kabah.htm

Could you kindly show us who that 'brother' is?

The KAA'BA [الكعبة]

Let's take a few moments to see what MUSLIMS themselves have variously claimed about the Kaa'ba. We should understand that facing the Kaa'ba is not simply a matter of praying alone - it involves a whole lot of other issues like:

(a) burying the dead

(b) recitation of the Qur'an

(c) announcing the call of prayer

(d) the ritual slaughter of animals. . . etc.

It is pertinent to understand that these references are from Muslims themselves, rather than what others have thought about the subject (although there are a lot of scholarly works revealing the real gist of the Kaa'ba). At the end of the day, the contradictions and controversies between the various claims of its history are testimony to the FACT that Muslims many times have no clue what they argue, nor can they coherently verify the noise they make in those claims.


The Kaa'ba - built by ADAM?

Some Muslims have often assumed that the Kaa'ba was originally built by Adam, and they therefore trace its origin back to the history of the creation of man. A few examples here from the following Muslim sources and weblinks:

[list]Tradition goes that the Kaaba was ordained by Allah to be built in the shape of the House in Heaven called Baitul Ma’amoor. Allah in his infinite Mercy ordained a similar place on earth and Prophet Adam was the first to build this place. The Bible, in the Chapter of Genesis describes its building when God ordained Abraham to erect a Shrine for worship when Abraham was ordered to go to the Southern desert with his wife Hagera and infant son Ismael. The Old Testament describes this building as the Shrine of God at several places, but the one built at Ma’amoor is very much similar to the one at Makka. There is no doubt that it was referring to the stone built house at Makka.

Source: (http://www.al-islam.org/kaaba14/1.htm) from the Muslim website for "Ahlul Bayt Digital Islamic Library Project" of Al-Islam.Org

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

The Quran commands the Muslims to face the sacred precincts in Makkah during prayer which is a fundamental tenet in slam. The legend of this purely Islamic development of a sacred stone structure dates back to the fall of Hadhrat Adam (alayhis salaam) from Paradise onto earth at Makkah. It has been reported by Al-tabari that Hadhrat Jibraeel (alayhis salaam) flapped his wings to uncover a foundation laid in the seventh fold of the earth. Angels paved this foundation with stones and Hazrat Adam went round this structure following the example of the Angels. Therefore it stands to reason that Allah Ta'ala contemplated and designated the Ka'aba before the creation of the earth. It is said that the Kaaba is a prototype of Baitul Mamoor, a house in the seventh Heaven situated immediately over the Kaaba.

The Kaaba with respect to the inhabited parts of the world is like the centre of a circle with respect to the circle itself. All regions face the Kaaba, surrounding it as a circle surrounds its centre; and each region faces a particular part of the Kaaba. Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) adopted the Kaaba as a physical focus in prayer as well for other acts of worship such as burial of the dead, recitation of the Qur'an, announcing the call of prayer, the ritual slaughter of animals, etc. Thus, Muslims have been spiritually and physically oriented towards the Kaaba and the holy city of Makkah in their daily lives.

Source: (http://www.jannah.org/hajj/kaaba.html)[/list]

Let us understand that official Muslim websites concertedly base their convictions of the history of the Kaa'ba purely on 'tradition' and 'legend'. They have no authentic source for verifying their claims other than the tales that have been circulated for eons among Muslims who have swallowed them by rote and only tend to repeat the same the same thing every single time.

Second, the same 'tradition' and 'legend' postulate the tales that the Kaa'ba is a prototype of "Baitul Mamoor, a house in the seventh Heaven". As far as 'legends' go, there is nothing to authenticate this tale, especially since they do not have any coherent pointers to verifying the historicity of the Adam-connection with the Kaa'ba!

Third, the usual Islamic thing is to cheat gullible readers with some wayo so-called 'science' in Islam. In this case, as is highlighted above,most Muslims claim that the location of the Kaa'ba is the center of the earth where all geographical bearings derive their proximities! Suffice to say here that this is merely another claim by Islamic 'tradition' that has no string of evidence in science. It is merely a tale.

Fourth, whether it makes sense of not, this Islamic tales from unquatified 'legend' assumes that Adam was the first to build the Kaa'ba. It should be carefully noted that this is merely a claim by the majority of Muslims - but not every Muslim attributes or traces the history of the Kaa'ba to ADAM. Other Muslim sources trace its history far much later to ABRAHAM - as the following website indicates:

The Holy Qur'an makes it clear that Ibrahim (Abraham)
and his son Ishmael were the true founders of the Kaaba,
together building the holy shrine dedicated to the worship
of the one true God.

Source: (http://www.hajinformation.com/main/j1091.htm)

The very simple question before the Muslim here is this:

Between "tradition/legend" and the Qur'an,
which is to be trusted in the history of the Kaa'ba?

For those Muslims who claim (by 'tradition' and 'legend') that Adam was the first to build the Kaa'ba, they are asking us to jettison the Qur'an as an inferior source for the history of the Kaa'ba. On the other hand, those who claim that the Qur'an traces its history to Abraham and Ishmael as "the true founders" of the Kaa'ba, the 'legends' and 'traditions' are a mere LIE!

Question: which is which?


Later, we shall examine (from MUSLIM sources) the idols of the Kaa'ba and which one of them Muhammad retained that Muslims now bow down to.

PLEASE NOTE I AM REPEATING THE POSTING OF THIS MESSAGE IN MOST THREADS IN OTHER TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE PEOPLE MENTIONED GET THE MESSAGE I AM TRYING TO PASS ACROSS, I APOLOGIZE FOR ANY INCONVINIENCES IT MIGHT CAUSE OTHER THREAD USERS,

Pilgrim.1, Davidylan, How are you, sorry you didn't I didn't post , statements and comments at all, for a while.

They were due to the following reasons:

1. I didn't have anything to say
2. I realise it was useless trying to convince them (@bab787, @olabowale and co) about something , when Satan has already blinded them to the truth. They themselves have decided to look for loopholes (where there is none) within the bible and lies with which to continue living a lie, and choose not to believe
3. I realised that their (@babs787, et al) would not come by arguing with them , instead it would come via the HolySpirit, ministering to them.

Let us remember that is , He (God) is the one who saved us, , so He is the One who would save them, Our own job as true Christians is just to , "SOW THE SEED OF THE GOOD NEWS OF CHRIST".

Whether or not " They choose to be infertile ground or grounds filled with thorns " is not really our perogative.

4. Finally I have noticed that "they are living for the now , while we are living for the now and then", so just like Jesus instructed the disciples there comes a time when we are supposed to dust our feet and leave


By the way pilgrim.1 and Davidylan, please find attached, some video links that have helped me to understand certain lies , deceit and indoctrination of "Evolution", I hope it helps you to see the truth as it has helped me to see the truth.


http://www.loudcry.org/main/video/Dr_Kent_Hovind_PhD/seminar_videos/7_questions_and_answers_part_2.avi


http://www.loudcry.org/main/video/Dr_Kent_Hovind_PhD/seminar_videos/7_questions_and_answers_part_1.avi


http://www.loudcry.org/main/video/Dr_Kent_Hovind_PhD/seminar_videos/7_questions_and_answers_part_4.avi


http://www.loudcry.org/main/video/Dr_Kent_Hovind_PhD/seminar_videos/7_questions_and_answers_part_3.avi


http://drdino.plaingospel.com/seminar2.wmv


http://drdino.icsrepair.com/videos/lowbitrate/seminar4_low.wmv


http://drdino.icsrepair.com/videos/lowbitrate/seminar3_low.wmv


http://drdino.plaingospel.com/seminar5.wmv


http://www.loudcry.org/main/video/Dr_Kent_Hovind_PhD/seminar_videos/6_the_hovind_theory_part_5.avi


http://www.loudcry.org/main/video/Dr_Kent_Hovind_PhD/seminar_videos/7_questions_and_answers_part_5.avi


http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v27/i4/Wang.asp


http://www.drdino.com/drdinoLinks.php


Finally false doctrine contributes to doubts in ones life and faith in God : below is a link to something on false doctrine which can and might
have led many Christians astray:

http://www.ovrlnd.com/FalseDoctrine/drakesbible.html


To you @babs787, @olabowale , and co, the wise and intelligent thing to do (instead of being dogmatic about issues) is to try and find out why those Christians that were formerly "either so called Moderate Muslims" and "Fanatical Muslims" decided to turn away from their ways and decide to become Christians. At least the truth is that some of them were probably as confrontation and unyielding in their statements as you "seem" to be. It would help you to at least prove for yourself by asking them "WHY" they left islam for Christ.

Unless you take joy in trying to "windup everybody" just for the sake of it, it would help you to conduct truthful research and analysis into why former terrorist, moderate muslims, fanatical muslims, decided to risk everything (life, job and family) all for the purpose of becoming a TRUE CHRISTIAN.


Pilgrim.1 and Davidylan stay blessed and in the hope of salvation through CHRIST

They used to face Jerusalem till allah relocated to the Mecca

When Islam first began, Muslims also prayed in the direction of Jerusalem. However, in 2 AH Muhammad issued the instruction to face the Kab'ah in Mecca in response to a revelation he received: "Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque:. (Qur'an, Surah 2:144).
 

the everchanging faces of allah

a lot of questions , why do they face the east , what exactly is inside KA'ABA,
what is the point facing a particular direction etc etc


the issue here is in islam we have rules and laws , which you have to follow and obey accordingly.
and as a divine religion you do what you are truly ordained by THE ALMIGHTY

@pilgrim.1

Now read what one of your brother supplied:

http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/kabah.htm

Could you kindly show us who that 'brother' is?

Ask Tayo-D and he will respond to your mischief

@babs787,

babs787:

@pilgrim.1

Ask Tayo-D and he will respond to your mischief

Thank you. A simple question now reads as "mischief" in your Islamic propaganist ideology. Anyway, I saw the thread where he posted it; and I have also made a preliminary post of the confusion among Muslims claiming the history of the Kaa'ab was either a "legend" from 'Adam' or contrarily originating with Abraham.

@ismailys20,

ismailys20:

the issue here is in islam we have rules and laws , which you have to follow and obey accordingly.
and as a divine religion you do what you are truly ordained by THE ALMIGHTY

The questions are straightforward and Muslims have not been able to clarify issues. Does it sound coherent to you that you simply "follow and obey according" the very things which you have no answers to offer for clarifying the queries posted?

, interesting , What you would do for allah and what allah would do for you,


maybe allah is also using compass, hence there was a change in direction from Jerusalem to Mecca.



Come one stop deceiving yourself (Noah's Flood), The flood destroyed everything (except Noah's ark and everthing in it) that was built by man from Adam, so this Kabba thing of yours is just another deceit.


By the way , babs, ismailys20, olabowale, let me show something that Nwando posted. it seems your contemporaries have already struck again.

Quote
The body of a Muslim convert to Christianity who went missing in mid-July, has
been returned to his family, slaughtered and cut into four pieces by Islamic
extremists.

http://www.domini.org/openbook/pal20030729.htm

Quote
Somali Christian sources report Ali Mustaf Maka'il, a 22-year-old college student and cloth merchant who converted from Islam to Christianity 11 months ago, was shot and killed in the Manabolyo quarter of Mogadishu.
According to a report from the Barnabas Fund, quoting a Christian source inside Somalia, the gunman was loyal to the Union of Islamic Courts, the Islamist organization that took power in Mogadishu in early June and now controls much of southern Somalia.

The report states the gunman shot Ali in the back Sept. 7 after he refused to join a crowd chanting Quran verses in honor of the lunar eclipse. Solar and lunar eclipses are significant in Islam and are accompanied by special congregational prayers. The Union of Islamic Courts confiscated Ali's body for 24 hours before delivering it to the grieving family, the report said.


http://www.cbn.com/CBNNews/News/030819a.aspx

Is it your dishonesty that made you posted same thing twice ?

Truth no matter how many will always be the same.

Muslim faces the east when praying to their god because their god is only living in the east.

The true God is everywhere Omnipresent.

Allah is "eastonlypresent"

The god of the muslim does not hear unless he read you lips so if you face other place you are on your own

dafidixone:

The true God is everywhere Omnipresent.

Allah is "eastonlypresent"

@dafidixone,

Lol, abeg make una softly with these guys O! We don't want them to begin quarreling with Muhammad for shortchanging them!

- - - - - - - - - - - -

On the other hand, I was wondering if any Muslim in the house would be willing to share what they know about where 'Allah' is situated. Now, before they scratch their heads wondering about the meaning of "omnipresent", let us simply offer that it ordinarily means "being present everywhere at once".

Now, is 'Allah' omnipresent, or he sits stationary in the east?

Perhaps this is not the right thread to discuss this; but we don't mind if any Muslim opens a new thread to discuss this issue and its implications.

@pilgrim.1

Thank you. A simple question now reads as "mischief" in your Islamic propaganist ideology. Anyway, I saw the thread where he posted it; and I have also made a preliminary post of the confusion among Muslims claiming the history of the Kaa'ab was either a "legend" from 'Adam' or contrarily originating with Abraham.

Can you please refer me that to that link?

Thanks

@babs787,

babs787:

@pilgrim.1

Can you please refer me that to that link?

It's not a difficult thing. Do kindly search through and you will find it.

@babs787,

Lol. . . sometimes I just like to tease you because you make such great sport of yourself.

Anyhow, I was waiting to see if you actually noticed you're on the very same thread of the "link" you were asking about; but since it's taking you forever to see it (incase you haven't seen it any earlier), here it is: (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-53767.480.html#msg1822145)