Jesus Also Preached Jihad - Religion (4) - Nairaland
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Jesus Peace Be Upon Him Preached Jihad / Did You Practice What Was Preached In The Church Last Sunday? / Has Your Pastor Ever Preached From Songs Of Solomon? (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by bashydemy(m): 10:40am On Dec 01, 2010 |
@image cmon guy wise up either i say garment or bag what am driving at is that he asked his disciples to sell there things to buy sword so maybe you need to google or check your dictionary for what sword us and what is mostly use for, and what is it that you dont understand by enough he is trying to tell them that those 2 sword is enough since he is not expecting much enemy for his arrest he think maybe they are only sending either 2 or 3 for his arrest and that why he said those sword is enough. and what do you mean by a sword can be multipurpose? are you trying to tell me he did not mean the sharp object when he say sword? a Staff is a kind of stick that what some elderly men use that call it staff and staves is a plural form of staff is kind of third person singular so they are refering to the same things when they say Staff or Staves i wish you understand what i mean. Image123:there are quit diffrent when things was written in English and you say he was speaking in parable that mean if i say Images you are mad then i can say am speaking in parable is that what you talking about? and about the Alfa we call those intepreter since it wasn't everyone present there that could understand arabic and samething happen in church so dont give me those stupid excuse ok are you ready for my Questions? |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by seyibrown(f): 3:56pm On Dec 01, 2010 |
vedaxcool: Lazy vexdacool!  Sweetnecta ended up muddling up the matter in post #86, hence my asking him to clarify. When he answers post #87, I will expect him to quote and prvide links, using the Quran and the Hadith to show us what exactly Islam says on the matter of whether to kill those who convert from Islam. He already admitted that something along the lines exist in the Quran and Hadith so it's him who needs to quote it to back up his assertions and prove that we are being misled by the false Hadith, not me! I already addressed the father -son-mother-daughter separation in post #44 on page 2! If only you actually read and follow the posts on this thread! |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by vedaxcool(m): 4:42pm On Dec 01, 2010 |
Mumu Seyi(  ) Just kidding. this was your response: Matthew 10:32-40 (King James Version) 32Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. 34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. 40He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. Making my summary brief, the passage above is about ACCEPTING JESUS or REJECTING JESUS! The sword seperates those who accept Jesus from those who don't. Picture situations where a family member has been killed for accepting Jesus; just exactly what Jesus was saying there! Many people have died (in Christ) because their family members turned against them for accepting Jesus, and it is still happening today! The members of their own family became their enemies. Jews and Christians are hated, persecuted and killed because of Jesus! If you are for Jesus, you will stand for him regardless of what other people say, think or do to you because of him; if you love Jesus and want to be part of his kingdom, you follow him to the end!-----> [b]Madame Gymnastics, even Pastor paul cannot beat you oh! The whole verse gives us a picture of a religion of Crisis, were People will turn against one another beacuse of It, Do you know many people have died beacause they did not accept Christ as their god? the inter pretation you are giving us is ver two sided don't you think? On one hand the sword Kills those that do not accept Christ as their [/b] what of the People, Christians have murdered for Jesus? Don't you know bush was a Christian fundamentalist to the core that was why he chanted Crusade aevery time he was bombing Iraq/ Afganistan! You may also want to read Revelation 19; 11 - 21 to see how the 'sword' will be used on the Earth! (Remember to read in context)---->Pls face the matter hand and stop this gymnastics. I hope you are able to think deeply on that scripture and my brief note. On your first paragraph, Mutallab kitting himself with a bomb has not resulted in the US declaring war on YEMEN, NIGERIA or the UK. TWO SWORDS do not equate to a Jihad!-----> u must be very Ignorant, what of 9-11, The US has been striking their "Enemies" in Yemen even the recent wikileaks -Cablegate gives that picture, apart from Arming the Gorvernment to Kill their "Enemies" in Yemen. Will be happy to discuss the OP parable when OP comes back with an HONEST SUMMARY!----> honesty  is something from all Indications you lack , Madame Gymnastics |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by Sweetnecta: 4:47pm On Dec 01, 2010 |
@Seyibrown: « #97 on: Today at 03:56:21 PM » [Quote]Quote from: vedaxcool on Today at 09:52:20 AM Why don't you quote where it says all you saying, you that do not know your bible but instead you try ard to dodge at every junction: # again you have not explain to us why Jesus made it his job to separate son from father, daughter from mother etc yet you in an attempt to quench fire you use spit rather than water, now that ain't wise. Lazy vexdacool! Grin Sweetnecta ended up muddling up the matter in post #86, hence my asking him to clarify. When he answers post #87, I will expect him to quote and prvide links, using the Quran and the Hadith to show us what exactly Islam says on the matter of whether to kill those who convert from Islam. He already admitted that something along the lines exist in the Quran and Hadith so it's him who needs to quote it to back up his assertions and prove that we are being misled by the false Hadith, not me! Grin[/Quote]You can grin all day long, it will not change the already established fact; Quran 2 verse 256 2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, , www.themodernreligion.com/terror/terrorism_verses1.htm - Cached - Similar also Quran 15:2-3 "Again and again will those who , Notice that the Quran says those who reject faith and then BELIEVE and , 3- So how come Muslim Fundamentalists execute those who desert Islam then? , www.answering-christianity.com/apostates.htm - Cached - Similar Hadith (And what people of knowledge say about that specific hadith): "kill whoever changes his religion". But this hadith is open to varying interpretations on several grounds. First, this hadith is considered a weak hadith with just a single isnad (this means there is only one chain of transmission or narration) and thus according to the rules of Islamic jurisprudence, it is not enough to validate the death penalty. Second, this hadith is also considered a general ('amm) hadith in that it is in need of specification (takhsis); for it would otherwise convey a meaning that is not within its purpose. The obvious reading of the hadith would, for example, make liable the death punishment on a Hindu or Christian who converts to Islam. This is obviously not the intention of the hadith. According to the rules of Islamic jurisprudence, when a text is interpreted once, it becomes open to further interpretation and specification. Therefore, many scholars interpret this hadith to apply only to cases of high treason (hirabah), which means declaring war against Islam, the Prophet, or God or the legitimate leadership of the ummah. Third, and most importantly, there is no evidence to show that Prophet Muhammad saw or his Companions ever compelled anyone to embrace Islam, nor did they sentence anyone to death solely for renunciation of the faith. Based on these three reasons and the Qur'anic principle of freedom of religion, prominent ulama (scholars) from the seventh to the twentieth centuries have come out with the position that there can be no death penalty for apostasy. According to Professor Hashim Kamali in his award-winning book, Freedom of Expression in Islam, two leading jurists of the generation succeeding the Companions, Ibrahim al-Naka'I and Sufyan al-Thawri, both held that the apostate should be re-invited to Islam, but should never be condemned to death. The renowned Hanafi jurist, Shams al-Din al-Sarakhsi wrote that even though renunciation of faith is the greatest of offences, it is a matter between man and his Creator, and its punishment is postponed to the Day of Judgement. The Maliki jurist Abul Walid al-Baji and the renowned Hanbali jurist Ibn Taymiyyah have both held that apostasy is a sin which carries no hadd punishment. In modern times, the celebrated Sheikh of al-Azhar University, the late Mahmud Shaltut who was esteemed for his vast knowledge of Islamic jurisprudence and Qur'anic interpretation, wrote that many ulama are in agreement that hudud cannot be established by a solitary hadith and that unbelief by itself does not call for the death penalty. The current Sheikh of al-Azhar, who was Egypt's former Grand Mufti, Dr Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, also declared that apostasy is not a capital crime. Many scholars, including Ibn Taymiyyah, Shaltut and Tantawi, said that the death penalty was not meant to apply to a simple change of faith, but to hirabah, that is, when apostasy is accompanied by rebellion against the community and its legitimate leadership. Extracts from http://www.sistersinislam.org.my/letterstoeditors/22071999.htm [Quote]I already addressed the father -son-mother-daughter separation in post #44 on page 2! If only you actually read and follow the posts on this thread! Grin [/Quote]Your explanation is from your own desire. It is similar to your desire that Jesus is God and that he bore your sin on himself. It is similar to your desire that there are Three Persons in One God, Trinity; Jesus, Yahweh and nameless ghost. It is similar to Alemuhandis saying he would have kidnapped you and make you his wife. These are mere desires and have no basis in reality. Reality, Seyi, live in it, not this fantasy. |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by Sweetnecta: 5:09pm On Dec 01, 2010 |
@Seyibrown: « #87 on: Yesterday at 11:39:50 PM » [Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:32:54 PM @Proo212: « #74 on: Yesterday at 06:08:59 PM »The bold is a classic and i'm grateful to God Almighty for it. While I'm lying, it is true that Quran says there is no compulsion in religion. It did not mention Islam or any religion for that matter. It further says in the very verse that truth has come and falsehood has no ability to continue. In another verse, Quran says that people who left Islam, becoming disbeliever, then decide to return into Islam, becoming beliver. Then after it becomes a disbeliever, again by leaving Islam. Then return to Islam, after it, and even then leave Islam, and then return to it again. This Allah Says after it, it may continue that it becomes a matter of joke or wimp, going in and coming out of Islam that Allah may not even accept their coming into Islam, since Only he Knows the heart. If a man or people who say they are muslims then go out to kill a person who merely left Islam, is this an action enjoined on him or them by the Quran? If you turn to Hadith and say it is encouraged by it, then you will discover that it simply says those who leave their religion, without specifying Islam. Though I believe the Hadith is fabricated since it goes against Quran and not just explaining what the Quran says, but it did not say anything about Islam or other religion. We can be sure that the Hadith is wrong or weak or fabricated, since it would mean that those who convert into Islam would therefore be killed. Thanks for losing respect for me. By the way, when the croats, and others killed the muslims in Bosnia, and the Spanish Inquisition and the old Crusades of so many centuries ago, and even the crusade of president Bush, did you chalk that to Christianity? How about the Hindus killing the Muslims in Mombai? sweetnecta, Are you saying that the Quran does not say: (a)to kill any one who converts from Islam (the religion of Allah) but instead says (b) to kill anyone who converts from his religion; or that (c) either or both a and b are only found in an Hadith (which is false when it contradicts the Quran)? If 'b', please quote and link to the Quranic verse. If your answer is 'c', will you then agree that any Muslim who kills another Muslim who has converted to another religion has not followed the commanment of Allah, and is therefore a murderer?[/Quote]I am saying that the Quran does not say (a): kill anyone who converts from Islam (The Religion of Allah). I am also saying that the Quran does not say (b) kill anyone who converts from his/her own religion (christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Taoism, etc). An I have finally said that only (b); kill anyone who converts fro his/her own religion can be found in Hadith. It is in this case that I said and I am saying now that since it simply states Religion, and also against Quran, it is a fabricated, weak and false hadith. If it has been a real hadith, all the converts, actually reverts from the inception of Muhammad's Islam should be killed. It will be agreeing with such a hadith, while at te same time disagreeing with the Quranic verses which it is supposed to explain. It will be exactly like Paul who explained Jesus he never met, yet what he said opposes what Jesus says about himself. Can we say that person is explaining Jesus or rather a direct enemy of Jesus? |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by Image123(m): 9:04pm On Dec 01, 2010 |
Hey bashy demy, i just had time to visit nl and check your reply,sorry. You got me laughing, i'll be back to reply your post. Really, i think we're making progress |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by bashydemy(m): 11:41pm On Dec 01, 2010 |
Ok image waiting for your response but am going to bed will check later |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by Image123(m): 1:51pm On Dec 02, 2010 |
@bashy demy image cmon guy wise up either i say garment or bag what am driving at is that he asked his disciples to sell there things to buy swordGood to see you say i should wise up, how i wish you could say and do that to yourself. I understood your context immediately you said " he ask them to sell there bag and buy sword" even though the statement was/is incorrect. i chose to 'pull you small'. It's the exact way you've not 'wised up' to understand the context of what Jesus said. Just like i ignored all the verses you posted and held on to 'selling bags and buying swords', you have decided to ignore all that Jesus taught and stood for, all he practised and all his disciples practised. Instead you've held on to buying swords to justify isla.mic violence. maybe you need to google or check your dictionary for what sword us and what is mostly use for, what do you mean by a sword can be multipurpose? are you trying to tell me he did not mean the sharp object when he say sword? a Staff is a kind of stick that what some elderly men use that call it staff and staves is a plural form of staff is kind of third person singular so they are refering to the same things when they say Staff or Staves i wish you understand what i mean.The bolded above is a self inflicted irony. You talk of what a sword is mostly used for, implying that it could have other uses, then you turn to ask if a sword can be multipurpose. Well to shorten a long story, a sword is a class of knife. It could have one edge sharp, similar to our popular 'knife', but could be longer and have two edges sharp. USES: Amongst other things, the knife family(the sword falls under this) can be; 1. Used as a weapon for attack. 2. Used as a weapon for defence, 3. Used as a cutting tool. 4. Used for decoration. 5. Used as a dining utensil. 6. Used in the kitchen. 7. Used for hunting. 8. Used as a farming implement. Yay, clap for me, i just answered the question i asked you! The point is that a sword can have more than one function of unleashing mayhem. That someone holds or possesses a sword, or gun or a knife doesn't automatically translate him/her into a jihadist or a rioter. You make a similar generalisation when you say "a Staff is a kind of stick that what some elderly men use". Jesus said that some people came to Him with swords and staves. I hope we can assume that they were all elderly men, and that they were using the swords and staves to walk. lol. Hope you get what i'm saying? to de-generalise, let me answer what i asked you again,hahaha. Amongst other things, the staff can be; 1. Used as a stick to aid walking. 2. Used as a weapon. 3. Used in ceremonies, or to indicate official status. 4. Used as a surveying tool. 5. Used in military commands. and what is it that you dont understand by enough he is trying to tell them that those 2 sword is enough since he is not expecting much enemy for his arrest he think maybe they are only sending either 2 or 3 for his arrest and that why he said those sword is enoughJesus knew He was going to be arrested and killed. Actually, that's why He came to earth, to die. He knew it all along and He told He disciples many times. Have you seen/heard where He told his disciples and one of them was against it, but Jesus rebuked him sharply? Infact, He told his betrayer to quickly go ahead. He could have left the place if He wanted to, He could have disappeared, he could have called ten thousand angels, all these things are in the Bible. But He waited, stopped His disciples from violence, healed the wounded 'enemy' and died for the whole world. He did it in love, not in helplessness. He did it to achieve something mightier than victory in physical battle, He did it to achieve spiritual victory for us. He gave us victory over satan and sin. He gave us life. He wasn't expecting 2 or 3, He knew all before it happened. Mark 9:31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. Mark 10:33 Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles: |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by bashydemy(m): 2:21pm On Dec 02, 2010 |
^^ well i understand your response and never aggree with the sword part, are you trying to tell me he never mean no harm when he ask them to sell there Garment to buy sword, and mind you there is different between knife and sword though they are both sharp object but we all know what was the purpose of sword back then so dont tell me it was just for decoration Image123:Well since he knew he was going to be arrested and killed why did he ask his desciples that he who have no sword should sell his garment and buy one. and second about the words he said on the cross my God my God why had thou forsaken me can you explain the word cos to me Brother jesus no won die |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by vedaxcool(m): 9:09am On Dec 03, 2010 |
Image123: If Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken me? The question I asked earlier is did Jesus Know he was going to be crucified and for what reason was he going to die. Looking at the run up to the cruci-play Jesus said to his Disciples that ----If you do not have a sword sell your garment and purchase one----one of his discoiples said they have two, Jesus replied it is okay, why swords? what for? the answer is simple he was planning to protect himself from the Jews when they come to arrest him, this same swords One of Jesus disciple used to loop off some one's ear, all this indicate that Jesus was unwillling to die, he goes further to tell his disciples to watch(guard) while he pray, all this indicate that he expected the Jews to come find him and hence made adequate? preparations for their arrival. Then Jesus went to pray crying to God(if he was god? he would have been crying to himself) he said " let this Cup pass over Me" that is save me from this wahala and we go on to hear God heard his prayers, God hears all the time it means God accepted his prayer. Now if he cried Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken me ----sorry my God My God why have you foorsaken me, to me it is a clear indication that he expected God to save him period. More Information go to https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-487580.32.html#msg6518951 |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by bashydemy(m): 9:18am On Dec 03, 2010 |
^^^ No mind Image jare he is pretending as if he dont what am talking about, jesus no won die cos he know life is beautiful what a waste |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by TheClown: 7:26pm On Dec 04, 2010 |
Bobbyaf, show your talent |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by seyibrown(f): 7:26pm On Dec 04, 2010 |
seyibrown: Making my summary brief, the passage above is about ACCEPTING JESUS or REJECTING JESUS! The sword seperates those who accept Jesus from those who don't. Picture situations where a family member has been killed for accepting Jesus; just exactly what Jesus was saying there! Many people have died (in Christ) because their family members turned against them for accepting Jesus, and it is still happening today! The members of their own family became their enemies. Jews and Christians are hated, persecuted and killed because of Jesus! If you are for Jesus, you will stand for him regardless of what other people say, think or do to you because of him; if you love Jesus and want to be part of his kingdom, you follow him to the end! vedaxcool: Madame Gymnastics, even Pastor paul cannot beat you oh! The whole verse gives us a picture of a religion of Crisis, were People will turn against one another beacuse of It, Do you know many people have died beacause they did not accept Christ as their god? the inter pretation you are giving us is ver two sided don't you think? On one hand the sword Kills those that do not accept Christ as their god/savior, on the other you claim it kill those that actually accepted him, Madame Gymnastics, this one pass Politician own sef, If you read the verse Jesus says -35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.-hence we can interprete it as saying in essence I will make you Christians to go against you fathers etc where you got the idea that it is opposite the Children and actually forcing their religion on their parents not the parents forcing on the children is very much Incoherent gymnastism. ROTFL! How on earth did you arrive at your post from my summary? Olorun mo numba ile e o! E tire me for you o! What can I do for you to help you read right? |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by TheClown: 7:33pm On Dec 04, 2010 |
Indeed it is a very interesting statement made by the Prince of peace! Was Jesus telling them to buy a sword for offence, self-defense, or was He meaning something else? He said earlier: Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. (Matthew 5:39, 40, 44) The real battle is not with fellow humans but with the prince of demons. The apostle Paul penned down clearly these wonderful words of truth: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Ephesians 6:12) We are to be equipped in this great warfare. In fact the entire armories we require in an earthly battle are also required in the spiritual battle. Each earthly weapon symbolizes some spiritual weapon. Look at how the apostle relates the earthly to the spiritual: Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the Gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints. (Ephesians 6:13-18) You have the "whole armour"-breastplate, shield, helmet, sword, etc! It is not the literal weapons, but rather "the breastplate of righteousness", "the shield of faith", "the helmet of salvation", and "the sword of the Spirit"! Jesus told each of His disciples to possess a sword. Which sword? Was it literal swords that He bid them have? Many times we see when Jesus spoke figuratively people got Him wrong. Even the learned Nicodemus misunderstood Christ regarding being born again. When Jesus talked about the spiritual birth he took it literally. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? (John 3:4) On another occasion when Jesus said that all must eat His flesh and drink His blood, the multitude took it literally and misunderstood Him so badly that most of them never followed Christ after that! John records: The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?, Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?, From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. (John 6:52, 60, 66) Coming to the swords: Was Jesus talking about the literal swords to be taken? If He meant the literal swords why did He rebuke Peter for using the sword against His enemy, and why did Jesus heal the injured man? Behold the scene. Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. (John 18:10) Look at the compassion of Christ even for His enemies who came to kill Him! And he touched his ear, and healed him. (Luke 22:51) Notice how Jesus reacted to Peter's method of protecting his Master: Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? (Matthew 26:52, 53) A legion in the Roman army division was around 6,000 soldiers. "Twelve legions of angels": that is, one legion for each of them-Christ and the eleven apostles. (Judas had already joined the enemies of Christ, and was leading the other band!) Christ did not need any earthly defense; the mighty heavenly air force was at His disposal if He wanted to. In fact we see the enemies of Jesus falling down, powerless, just before they arrested Him. Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons. Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. (John 18:3-6) The power of the divine Christ most likely flashed forth through His human flesh, as it happened also on the Mount of Transfiguration where the three apostles of Jesus fell down on their faces seeing His glory (See Matthew 17:1-7). God was giving His murderers another chance to let them know whom they were about the handle and crucify! Before telling His disciples about the fierce battle ahead in Gethsemane and Calvary, Jesus cautioned Peter about the attack of the devil on him. And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death. And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me. (Luke 22:31-34) Peter and the rest had no idea as to what exactly Christ spoke. They had so many preconceived opinions about the future. Peter truly loved the Lord. We can see it when he took the sword to defend his Master! But he trusted his own strength and wisdom. Therefore he finally denied his dearly beloved Lord. When he realized what he had done he wept bitterly! And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And Peter went out, and wept bitterly. (Luke 22:61, 62) Peter and the rest failed during the crucial hour of test and temptation because they did not understand the Word of God! They did not put on the whole armor of God, but rather had the physical armor! Which sword did Christ mean? Obviously He did not mean the literal sword as he rebuked Peter for using it. The Scripture reveals the true sword. The sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. (Ephesians 6:17) Revelation talks about the sword that Christ will use, as His weapon, to defeat His enemies finally: And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations. (Revelation 19:15) The sword that comes from His mouth is His Word! Even in the wilderness when He was battling it out with the devil Christ used the "sword"-the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God. For all the three fierce temptations that Satan assailed Him with, the weapon of Jesus was the Word of God-"It is written"! (See Matthew 4:1-11) Christ was asking them to get ready for the fiercest battle that was just ahead of them. He was asking them to get equipped. After telling the disciples to get prepared for the battle, Christ showed them as to what He meant, by taking them to the Garden of Gethsemane, for a powerful season of prayer, and the battle with the forces of darkness. Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. (Matthew 26:36-38) Instead of watching and praying, the disciples were overtaken with sleep. Jesus battles it alone! And He comes to check how the disciples are fairing in their battle, and, lo, they are already knocked out! And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. (Matthew 26:40, 41) Peter had a sword, but the wrong sword! What he was told to have was the spiritual sword to fight the battle in the Garden of great temptation. They were to "watch and pray" to escape temptation. But they slept, and therefore Peter fell into temptation, and to the enemies' trap. And to make up for the spiritual sword, he wielded his literal sword! ONE MIGHT SAY: Jesus said that the two swords which they had were "enough". Therefore it is obvious that He was referring to the literal swords! And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. (Luke 22:38) Please note, Jesus did not say "the two swords were enough", but said, "It is enough". If Jesus meant about the literal swords, how could two swords be enough for twelve people if they were going to war? And if Jesus meant just two swords were enough then He would be contradicting His own words earlier, where He told all of them should have a sword each! He said earlier: He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. (Luke 22:36) Therefore, "It is enough", means, to wind up this conversation, as it was also time up to go and start praying! And the next thing they did was to march to the site of spiritual warfare. And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him. (Luke 22:38, 39) Also Christ wanted to end that conversation, as they were not in a position to understand what He was saying. Jesus told them earlier: I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth. (John 16:12, 13) They were not to have the two swords, but the two-edged sword! For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword. (Hebrews 4:12) This is the powerful weapon that Jesus wields against His enemies. These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges. (Revelation 2:12) ONE MIGHT AGAIN SAY: If Christ meant the spiritual sword why did He say to "buy" a sword? He said: He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. (Luke 22:36) Well, this method of speaking spiritual things in a literal way was not new. Jesus used the illustration of selling something to buy another thing even in His parables. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. (Matthew 13:44) To get something spiritual we have to "sell" or give up the things that are an obstacle to its possession. It is only when we give up our selfish ambitions and motives we will be able the "buy" or receive the heavenly gift. Though spiritual things are free we are to "buy" it, as the Gospel prophet, Isaiah, too, penned down the invitation of God regarding "buying" things for free! Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. (Isaiah 55:1) Jesus told Peter just before the temptation in the Garden to strength his brethren later when he got converted. And when the apostle got converted he admonished God's people to give much attention to the sword, which he lacked-the Word of God. He wrote: We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts. (2 Peter 1:19) Are we carrying the sword everyday? We need to! But not the literal sword that Peter once carried, but: The sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. (Ephesians 6:17) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12) |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by seyibrown(f): 7:44pm On Dec 04, 2010 |
seyibrown: sweetnecta, Sweetnecta: [b]I read the article availble on the first link you provided and have this one question: WHY DO THOSE WHO SPEAK FOR ISLAM PREACH AND PRACTICE THE OPPOSITE? WHY IS EXECUTION THE PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTASY IN SHARIA LAW, CONTRARY TO THE 'NO COMPULSION' DECLARATION OF THE QURAN? On the article available on your second link: I couldn't read beyond the title the topic featured at the top of the page: [center]9/11: The biggest lie in history! Watch these videos from White-Americans (not Arab-Muslims) proving that the Pentagon bombing was done by a Global Hawk drone! No bodies and no airplane-debris were found! Also, no noise was either recorded or detected by any ordinary person![/center] If the website can feature such an article (specifically noting the last sentence), no point going further! Clicking on the topic takes you to: http://www.answering-christianity.com/911_is_the_biggest_lie.htm On the basis of your paragraphs 3 and 4, Isn't this particular Hadith that you say is WEAK and IS OPEN TO VARYING INTERPRETATIONS ON SEVERAL GROUNDS (and very likely contradicting the Quran saying there is no compulsion in religion) a DANGER and INJUSTICE to apostates who CAN GET KILLED (and have been killed) where such hadith has been used as the basis for killing them; and make those who kill them regardless of the fact that 'there is no compulsion in religion' murderers, and the originator of that MISLEADING HADITH a liar and mass murderer? On your 5th paragraph; If according to QURAN 5: 46 -48, God will judge Jews by the Torah, Christians by the Gospel, and Muslims by the Quran, WHY SHOULD THIS HADITH that you say contradicts the Quran (whether interpreted correctly or incorrectly in judgement), and bearing in mind that Hadiths that contradict the Quran are false according to NL Muslims, BE BINDING ON THOSE WHO HAVE CHOSEN TO NO LONGER BE MUSLIM? WHY IS ISLAMIC LAW BEING DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY FORCED ON PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT MUSLIMS? Given the Quran scripture as referred above, it is CLEAR that the Hadith was referring to 'MUSLIMS WHO CONVERT'. It would have no business saying that CHRISTIANS WHO CONVERT be killed since the Quran (and Hadith by extension) applies to MUSLIMS while the Gospel applies to CHRISTIANS, and there is no need for specification as the Quran clearly states which books apply to which religion! On your sixth paragraph, I have the following scripture for you: QURAN 9: 29 - 32 (Version: Sahih International) 29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled. 30 The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah ." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded? 31 They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah , and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him. 32 They want to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah refuses except to perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it. Muhsin Khan makes verse 31 it clearer who 'those who do not believe in Allah' are: They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilah (God - Allah) La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)." If Mohammed did the above as commanded by Allah, then your assertion is false. If Mohammed did not, he was disobedient to Allah! Take your pick! We only decieve ourselves when we deny that which is happenning before our very eyes! On your last three paragraphs; Why do all these muslims -scholars or not - who ARE NOT PROHETS (since Islam says Mohammed is the last prophet) keep GIVING RULINGS on matters that the QURAN has already 'MADE CLEAR'? Why are they saying things that ALLAH DID NOT SAY? Why does an HADITH (not given to Mohammed) give them grounds to give a ruling for the killing of a non-muslim (apostate) when ALLAH HAD ALREADY SENT HIS WORD THROUGH MOHAMMED? Same question goes for all other 'punishment-related' and 'Islamic living' rulings outside this topic![/b] |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by GODSON2009(m): 8:10pm On Dec 04, 2010 |
uplawal uplawal i didnt know you were still into your wrong and ignorant interpretation of the bible first of all i will ask you to show me another verse in the new testament which supports your assertion that jesus christ meant the physical slaying.once you can do that i will show you a verse in the bible which shows that jesus christ did not mean a physical slaying but spiritual as he always did in explaining and teaching |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by Image123(m): 10:11am On Dec 05, 2010 |
bashy_demy:Sorry i've been busy. Good to see you 'understand my response'. So, to the 'sword part'. What on earth could they've needed a sword(s) for? Like its established, its not compulsorily and dogmatically for violence. Let's try context, i want you to see it for yourself. In what context did Jesus talk about a sword? As in, what was He talking about/referring to? Pls give a try. |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by bashydemy(m): 12:44pm On Dec 05, 2010 |
Image123:Well all i know is he as his disciples to sell there garment to by sword and back then what was sword used for? can you tell me |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by Image123(m): 2:59pm On Dec 05, 2010 |
bashy_demy:Okay, i'll help you then. I've already listed different things that the sword can be used for. Now please compare these two passages and observe the context. Luke 22v35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. 36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. And Luke10v2.Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. 3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. 4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way. 5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house. What can you put together from the two passages bashy demy? |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by Sweetnecta: 3:26pm On Dec 05, 2010 |
^^^^^Is the above in defense of Jesus commanding his people to sell their cloths and purchase swords with the gains? If this is the defense, it is pitiful to put it mildly. Everyone who sold his belong and retain only what he wears and carries an instrument of war always commit mayhem. look at the crusaders. look at the tamil tigers. look at the suicide bombers. major nedal of fort dix in texas gave away all his possession except the gun[s] he purchased, instead. i am sure if he was a christian, they will put a spin on his action, as a temporary laps in judgment. Jesus asked for people to buy sword. it was the weapon of choice at that time, one of it was used for severing an ear. is there any other purpose for swords of Jesus except what the disciple used it for; shedding blood of the disbeliever or the enemy whose party finally overwhelmed and nailed jesus, according to the Bible? the two verse do not clear Jesus of the use of swords as weapon[s] of killing, or at least cutting of a man's body part. christians never cease to amaze me with their silly defense of Jesus the warrior. they will call him lamb when all of his actions indicate a wolf or wolverine at the appropriate time. |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by aletheia(m): 6:47pm On Dec 05, 2010 |
Sweetnecta: O my! Who ever said Jesus isn't a warrior? Stop creating arguments where there are none. Jesus did not preach Jihad or violence. But He's coming to crush the heads of all who oppose him in righteous judgment. And the brightness of his glorious appearance will destroy your much expected Madhi. O yes, He's the Lamb and the Lion. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord; |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by seyibrown(f): 6:00am On Dec 06, 2010 |
[b]The Commander of the Army of Jehovah!!! The captain of the hosts of the Lord!!! The Lion of Judah!!! The ancient of Days!!! The one that shutteth and no man openeth!! The father of the fatherless!! The Husband of the widow!! The lifter up of our heads!! The Lord that is Mighty in battle!!! He is MIGHTY TO SAVE!!!  OUR JOY!! OUR STRENGTH!!! My Shield and Buckler!! OH LORD, OUR HELP IN AGES PAST OUR HOPE FOR YEARS TO COME OUR SHELTER FROM THE STORMY BLAST AND OUR ETERNAL HOME He moves mountains for his children! He parts seas for us! He executes judgment for the oppressed, feeds the hungry, AND FREES THE PRISONERS! He hath freed us from the Law of Sin and Death, and given us freedom in Christ and eternal life! Death where is thy sting? What shall seperate us from the Love of Christ? Nothing! Let the earth be shaken to it very foundations, yet his love endureth FOREVER! In the LORD put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain? The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him. The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him. Psalm 27 (King James Version) 1The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid? 2When the wicked, even mine enemies and my foes, came upon me to eat up my flesh, they stumbled and fell. 3Though an host should encamp against me, my heart shall not fear: though war should rise against me, in this will I be confident. 4One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple. 5For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock. 6And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD. 7Hear, O LORD, when I cry with my voice: have mercy also upon me, and answer me. 8When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek. 9Hide not thy face far from me; put not thy servant away in anger: thou hast been my help; leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation. 10When my father and my mother forsake me, then the LORD will take me up. 11Teach me thy way, O LORD, and lead me in a plain path, because of mine enemies. 12Deliver me not over unto the will of mine enemies: for false witnesses are risen up against me, and such as breathe out cruelty. 13I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living. 14Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD. OUR PROTECTOR, OUR DELIVERER, OUR FATHER AND OUR GOD! IMMORTAL, INVINCIBLE GOD! HOW GREAT THOU ART! BE THOU EXALTED![/b] |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by bashydemy(m): 10:48pm On Dec 06, 2010 |
@image your Question have been answered |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by Nobody: 10:50pm On Dec 06, 2010 |
seyibrown and her manner of derailing thread with long copy and paste |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by Image123(m): 10:56pm On Dec 06, 2010 |
Image123:Bashy demy, i await your answer. |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by pumpindkay(m): 11:50pm On Dec 06, 2010 |
Jesus was telling a story. |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by seyibrown(f): 12:50am On Dec 07, 2010 |
@The Clown: I missed post # 109 but definitely explains far better than I did! @uplawal: I am glad you came back to your thread! |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by Image123(m): 3:17pm On Dec 08, 2010 |
. |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by dadde(m): 5:43pm On Dec 08, 2010 |
I think what the originator of this thread is saying is that '' fine, Mohammed preached and practice violence but he is not the only one." Back to the main question, what the OP fails to realize is that those statement attributed to Jesus were just an extract parable Christ was saying. some one should tell me if it is wrong for Jesus to physically protect himself from robbers. Bible scholars have proved to us that , that rout Jesus was about to ply was notorious for robbery. Jihadist should look for another justification |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by Sweetnecta: 9:03pm On Dec 08, 2010 |
Oh my! Somebody has got a cone or a brother in dadde. Both males can help exposing the frailty of Jesus. The God who is afraid of common criminals like Babatunde Folorunsho and Ishola Oyenusi type is no God, but god. Oh my. lol. They come up with all kinda excuses. from ridiculous to the more ridiculous, instead of just admitting that it was a wild wild west, and somebody was eager to throw down, walking the gauntlet of two swords, and many bags and just the cloth on your back. Buying swords especially after performing great miracles does not seem to be a logical defense of "owning swords because of desert robbers". |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by Image123(m): 11:57pm On Dec 08, 2010 |
bashy_demy: bashy_demy:Almost did not see this. I'm yet to see the answer you alluded to though. Here's the question again. Image123:If you'rE referring to necta's post, it doesn't look like. ^^^^^Is the above in defense of Jesus commanding his people to sell their cloths and purchase swords with the gains?This &the sentences that followed it do not 'compare those two passages' |
| Re: Jesus Also Preached Jihad by vedaxcool(m): 10:07am On Dec 09, 2010 |
No, We all got it wrong, Jesus wanted to peel some Yams and apples that was why he ordered for swords instead of knives, since this kind of Yams have blood running in them.LOL! Again I repeat it was Yams Jesus wanted to Peel, remembr Peter used one of the swords to peel a yam that had Ears.LOL! DWL-Deing with Laughter |
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