AK481:


the university is first and foremost a research institution.

Says who ?

The Nigeria constitution?
The Bible?
The Quran?

That is your own desire
It is not a bad aspiration but there is no basis for that claim
It is very far from reality

Universities in Nigeria are primarily teaching Institutions not research institutions

If we consider knowledge as a commodity that is produced by research then many universities are consumers of research rather than producers.
Research is not cheap especially medical research e.g it can cost Hundreds of millions to bring a single drug to market?
How many universities have that kind of money?

GerogeI:


Jeez,
See this idiot that is registering ground breaking patents in areas he cannot mention, all without proper equipment. Who are you kidding.

I am well versed in every aspect of University life in Nigeria, and like I told you before, the frauds are the majority among PhD holders in Nigeria, that's why they have zero impact overall.

You are so pained by this, maybe you are one of the frauds who bought PhD by sending bags of rice to their supervisors every session, and hosting external examiners in hotels with escorts sent to keep them company. We are well versed the established fraud procedure.


"World Class Buffoon". . . Bottom line is by their fruits you shall know them. Where are the world class outputs and there impact on our economy.

Your healthcare system is failing because of ignorant people like you who are in charge. The same Doctors you refuse to pay well are the same one hired in UK, US, Canada and Australia, and there health system s are not going down. But here you are with your failing system looking for fake PhDs for Doctors that are already leaving.

You are a very blunt tool who keeps shooting himself in the foot.. A little visit to Google to query my Unilag assertion would have avoided your shameless wriggle like a marshed maggot..

https://m.guardian.ng/news/unilag-patents-11-inventions-in-18-months/

Another worthy mention is a patent for anti cancer and diabetic drug from bitter leaf by the professor below..

He has two patents in the USA


https://www.pmnewsnigeria.com/2013/03/21/nigerian-professor-develops-drug-for-cancer-diabetes-from-bitter-leaf/

You are just a loser who blames everyone for his inadequacies.. Maybe you got your degrees via sorting.. Don't robe everyone into your mess..

Your healthcare system is failing because of ignorant people like you who are in charge. The same Doctors you refuse to pay well are the same one hired in UK, US, Canada and Australia, and there health system s are not going down. But here you are with your failing system looking for fake PhDs for Doctors that are already leaving.

Lolz... They are doing better in those climes not just because of a higher pay but the health care facilities they deploy to make their work seamless and easier..

You can juxtapose that with the lecturers who are very sound but bedeviled with poor pay, poor funding and facilities to churn out world class researches.

You are a fraud and not primed for this discourse... No average intelligent person should be churning out the bullshit you have been emitting for hours..

Take a break from your bizarre display of crude idiocy and inform the house as an engineer (Your claim) .. What knowledge/impact you have added to the scientific world...

OH Einstein.... Please avail mankind the true depth of thy greatness..

Yeye dey smell......... BYE!

Lol.... I don laff tire....

Allthese egofilled medical doctors sef

AK481:


This is the almighty dean of Harvard’s college of medicine

You are obviously a slowpoke.

I said having a PhD is a bonus, which means some of the lecturers have it BUT it is not a requirement. Several of the department heads of this same Harvard do not have PhD.

How does posting the bio of the deans of faculty prove that all the lecturers in the U.S are required to have a PhD?
Or did someone tell you that there are no lecturers in Nigerian Colleges of Medicine with PhDs?

Gr8amechi:

Get some facts, the reason for this thread is to enlighten us all, in clinical training of doctors PhD is not required, in fellowship they do research and write dissertation, fellowship combines what PhD does and add clinical practical experience which the doctor needs to treat patients.

For doctors in basic medical sciences they need PhD

Thankfully u are not NUC and your myopic opinion is quite irrelevant

Jokerman:
Lol.... I don laff tire....

Allthese egofilled medical doctors sef

To be fair to them, I appreciate and agree with their thrust that a Specialist consultant is more than capable to lecture/teach clinicals in the university due to their wealth of practical experience..

But they should not chose to totally belittle the significance of a PhD which is research focused ...

The essence of research is to solve current issues to make life easier, safer and more pleasurable.

So a research focused clinical specialist will be an added advantage to the scientific world..

Anyway, with time the superior arguement will win at the end of the day..

AK481:
Dean oxford school of medicine:

I am not saying there are not MD without PhD teaching, I am saying that if we do it here , heaven will not fall.

So if you know that there are doctors with fellowships who are teaching without PhD in developed countries like the U.S why do you want them to change the rules and make it compulsory to have PhD before teaching in medical school in Nigeria?

jmaine:


To be fair to them, I appreciate and agree with their thrust that a Specialist consultant is more than capable to lecture/teach clinicals in the university due to their wealth of practical experience..

But they should not chose to totally belittle the significance of a PhD which is research focused ...

The essence of research is to solve current issues to make life easier, safer and more pleasurable.

So a research focused clinical specialist will be an added advantage to the scientific world..

Anyway, with time the superior arguement will win at the end of the day..

I don't think the aim is to belittle the PhD. The PhD can be a bonus for a lecturer in medical school but should not be a requirement. I have 2 questions.

1) How many countries in the world do you know that make it compulsory for lecturers in medical school to have PhD before teaching. if you know them, please name them.

2) All the PhDs that have been given in Engineering, Biochemistry, e.t.c in Nigeria, how have they solved our problems?

obi4eze:


Maybe NUC actually goofed by allowing them lecture and become Professors without PhD in the past but it seems they realized their error.

The consultants want to continue becoming Professors without PhD. I laugh! Do they actually know the rigors of becoming a PhD holder?
They are not bigger than NUC that regulates them so if NUC says they cant become Professors without PhD then they should either join their colleagues who go on to acquire PhD or get out.

shut up...what do you know?
Residency and fellowship is more than PhD...NUC are only acting on medical illiteracy...if the demand PhD then medical doctor will proceed for their MSc and PhD Instead of residency.. although some doctors do go through that way because the want to focus on academics...but becoming a clinical academic doctor you need to pass through residency and fellowship at the same time making research in your speciality.. residency is also called postgraduate training,more hours on called,more patients e.t.c

afrodoc2:


I don't think the aim is to belittle the PhD. The PhD can be a bonus for a lecturer in medical school but should not be a requirement. I have 2 questions.

1) How many countries in the world do you know that make it compulsory for lecturers in medical school to have PhD before teaching. if you know them, please name them.

2) All the PhDs that have been given in Engineering, Biochemistry, e.t.c in Nigeria, how have they solved our problems?

Your second question is exactly what I am referring to..

Let me speak for biochemistry... You can't in anyway belittle the quality of researches from biochemistry.. They provide baseline info which provides the materials you use in practice

Among the top 5 internationally recognized scholars in Nigeria, 3 are distinguished Biochemists with over 300 publications in high impact journals... If you don't recognize that, the international community does..

If Nigeria was a country where there was a synergy between the industry and the academics, we would have been in a much better place in terms of transformation of good publications to solve niggly issues...

I will give you one instances I know of... I was in Unilag last year for a PhD presentation of senior personnel in LUTH, he was doing in his PhD in molecular biology to identify marker genes that will give early warning signals to gynecologist of pre-eclampsia susceptible patients..

This way, they can easily be identified during early pregnancy and managed.. He was seeking to provide these marker genes for the Nigerian population other than the usual practice of using data from Other regions of the world which might not really be relatable due to variance..

It was a fantastic research... We have numerous of such quality researches going on... Are you trying to say the findings from that research won't solve issues in the medical line with an updated info?

Is it until we win a Nobel prize before these efforts are recognized..

jmaine:


Your second question is exactly what I am referring to..

Let me speak for biochemistry... You can't in anyway belittle the quality of researches from biochemistry.. They provide baseline info which provides the materials you use in practice

The among the top 5 internationally recognized scholars in Nigeria, 3 are distinguished Biochemists with over 300 publications in high impact journals... If you don't recognize that, the international community does..

If Nigeria was a country where there was a synergy between the industry and the academics, we would have been in a much better place in terms of transformation of good publications to solve niggly issues...

I will give you one instances I know of... I was in Unilag last year for a PhD presentation of senior personnel in LUTH, he was doing in his PhD in molecular biology to identify marker genes that will give early warning signals to gynecologist of pre-eclampsia susceptible patients..

This way, they can easily be identified during early pregnancy and managed.. He was seeking to provide these marker genes for the Nigerian population other than the usual practice of using data from Other regions of the world which might not really be relatable due to variance..

It was a fantastic research... We have numerous of such quality researches going on... Are you trying to say the findings from that research won't solve issues in the medical line with an updated info?

Is it until we win a Nobel prize before these efforts are recognized..

We have had great research in medical schools in Nigeria in the past with some led by consultants with PhD and others led by consultants without PhD. I finished from the same LUTH and i have examples of both. You don't need PhD before you have advancements in medical research.
The problem is lack of good funding and the general collapse of the Nigerian educatuonal and health systems, not lack of PhDs.

Meanwhile you didn't answer my first question. List the countries that make it compulsory to have PhD before teaching in medical school.

afrodoc2:


We have had great research in medical schools in Nigeria in the past with some led by consultants with PhD and others led by consultants without PhD. I finished from the same LUTH and i have examples of both. You don't need PhD before you have advancements in medical research.
The problem is lack of good funding and the general collapse of the Nigerian educatuonal and health systems, not lack of PhDs.

Meanwhile you didn't answer my first question. List the countries that make it compulsory to have PhD before teaching in medical school.

Great, so you now admit a good number of scientists in Nigeria are doing well research wise..

If you read my post you quoted, you will agree with me i have no qualms with a medical fellow without Phd teaching or lecturing in medical schools due to their Vast experience .. In addition, provided such a fellow is grounded solidly in research like what is obtainable in advanced countries...

Emphasis is placed on research output than just clinicals.. Cos research improves teaching techniques..

Now I will like to ask to clarify certain things..

1) Is the Fellowship programmes in Nigeria more research based or more clinicals ...?

Dave233:
see this mumu. Fellowship is done after residency and residency is a minimum of 6 years . Fellowship is called Subsubspecialty.

Idiot

Residency program is a robust package towards making you a fellow.

You do not embark on another entrance exam neither do u engaged on another institution.

You think anyone here is a fool like u?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wealthresult.com/health/become-medical-consultant-nigeria/amp

jmaine:


Great, so you now admit a good number of scientists in Nigeria are doing well research wise..

If you read my post you quoted, you will agree with me i have no qualms with a medical fellow without Phd teaching or lecturing in medical schools due to their Vast experience .. In addition, provided such a fellow is grounded solidly in research like what is obtainable in advanced countries...

Emphasis is placed on research output than just clinicals.. Cos research improves teaching techniques..

Now I will like to ask to clarify certain things..

1) Is the Fellowship programmes in Nigeria more research based or more clinicals ...?

Fellowship program everywhere in the world is about both. The ratio varies from country to country, and from specialty to specialty.

In a country like Nigeria (like in most countries of the world) it is only understandable that the ratio is tilted a bit more towards clinical than research. We don't have the benefit of millions of dollars in grants for research that some of the most advanced countries.

afrodoc2:


Fellowship program everywhere in the world is about both.

You are giving me a smart answer sir . Please be more precise...

In advance climes it is more research based backed by clinicals which is an added advantage over just pure PhD.

jmaine:


You are giving me a smart answer sir . Please be more precise...

In advance climes it is more research based backed by clinicals which is an added advantage over just pure PhD.

Edited my answer.

And in these advanced countries the research is driven by both PhD and non-PhD fellows.

So the obvious solution in Nigeria is to channel more funds into research, whether it be by PhD fellows or non-PhD fellows.

The problem is the lack of funding for research, not lack of PhDs.

afrodoc2:


Edited my answer.

And in these advanced countries the research is driven by both PhD and non-PhD fellows.

So the obvious solution in Nigeria is to channel more funds into research, whether it be by PhD fellows or non-PhD fellows.

The problem is the lack of funding for research, not lack of PhDs.

I did like to say perhaps it's the seeming lack of research discipline which a PhD at least exposes one too is what the NUC is seeking to correct.. Albeit in a brash manner..

The NUC and the NMA need sit and harmonize their positions..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLbs8kBXgrw

AK481:


That’s the point, do something to enhance your research abilities to maximum and not just practical.

Teaching is different from research, the university is first and foremost a research institution.

Of what use to your clinical practice? is he teaching biology? Do you know he got that Phd before bagging MD/MBBS?

funmisticqueen2:
only in Nigeria. Medical doctors are one of the richest professional in other countries. That's why a lot of Nigerian doctrs are leaving the country and doing well there. But don't worry, your wife will treat you but for the other clueless ones following your footsteps, who will treat them?

You wife and in-laws, do they have a PhD, and if they do, do they have it in a clinical specialty? Do they see sick patients with their PhD?

I don't think any of my lecturers who are in the clinical settings in clinical medicine have a PhD.What they have is a fellowship. The ones that are professors among them, even emeritus professors, got that title through research without your precious PhD, so should they now stop giving to humanity, because of a degree that adds no value in their field.

Think of your unborn future generations. If people equate being a PhD will a fellow, no one will go for fellowship any longer. After all, who wants to waste all that time. And 20-30 years down the line, you will begin to wonder why medical standards have abysmally dropped.
Fellowship isn't sort and pass like your Nigerian PhD. After all, Jonathan has a PhD, who e epp?

You see why a Ph.D is required? if you are a medical doctor, I can tell from afar that your comprehension is below par. You have done nothing but deviate so far from the scope of discussion. I didnt equate a Ph.D to a fellowship. 2. A Ph.D is a research degree that helps a holder adequately design, implement and make empirical conclusions on a subject area, whilst learning unique methodologies of research and robust literature reviews. How you think this will not benefit the students and the lecturers bothers on pride and shallowness. If you think it is beneath you, so trivial and inconsequential, do it first and return in 'just three years' to say it was a waste of time on a trivial endeavor.

Finally, No one told you my Ph.D was done in Nigeria yet you have jumped into this conclusion like a B.Sc holder with very little proficiency in organized thoughts. Again, you inability to follow through a logical sequence of thoughts has tempted you into bringing Goodluck Jonathan into this conversation. He holds a Ph.D in a subset of zoology, not in being a president. If he was a medical fellow, it would have had little effect on his ability to hold political office and deliver - cue the various disaster of Health Ministers we have had in Nigeria - Such lofty fellows yeah. It is akin to say Jonathan failed because he was a Ph.D holder and a medical fellow would have made a better president.

It is no major feat to do a 'minute' Ph.D as well as continue to pursue a fellowship. Yes, while a Ph.D student, I completed a second bachelor's degree and an international diploma within a 4 year period. I will NOT compare myself to a doctor, I cannot be a doctor neither can he be me by any stretch of our collective imaginations.

Have a nice day baby Doc.

AK481:


They can continue becoming doctors without a PhD, but not lecturer in the university.

They can’t bend the rules for them.

Medicine is a practical oriented field pls, unlike other courses

Teaching students clinical medicine is better done by resident doctors and consultants who have good practical skills and expertise, than a phD holder
Peace.

Jokerman:


Engineering is what??
Law is what??

Do you see engineers complaining as youse all the time??

Engineering is not an apprenticeship in Nigeria pls
How many mechanical engineers actually go on to practise what they learnt in school?

0m0nnakoda:


I do not believe in doing a Phd for the sake of doing so
Does a Phd add value to a doctor?
I think it depends ,sometimes maybe in medical sciences but in specialties like surgery, Orthopaedics it is a waste of time for most unless you want to become a Professor
I need to point out that most doctors are uninterested in that

You probably missed the point...we are talking about doctors in the academia, you can't say someone in the academia is not interested in becoming a professor...i think you are referring to doctors generally, which is not the case in hand. ...A PhD is sure needed to become a professor......

Jokerman:


How can a medical doctor that doesn't know mathematics be smarter than an engineer?

A doctor what can't design a room??

Don't say that again pls
The medical students in my school are all math gurus in their secondary schoo

AlphaT1:

You probably missed the point...we are talking about doctors in the academia, you can't say someone in the academia is not interested in becoming a professor...i think you are referring to doctors generally.

h
We are not talking about doctors in the academia

We are talking about medical student education and who can give it.
Most doctors who provide medical education in the clinical years are NOT employees of medical schools. Often they have Honorary or supernumerary contracts. So they are not on a pathway to becoming a Professor

I did not say what you are saying I said or can't say.
What I am saying is you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how medical education works.
Doctors who do most of the teaching are not academics but clinicians

Godhead4:


Medicine is a practical oriented field pls, unlike other courses

Teaching students clinical medicine is better done by resident doctors and consultants who have good practical skills and expertise, than a phD holder
Peace.

unlike other field like ? engineering?

0m0nnakoda:
h
We are not talking about doctors in the academia

We are talking about medical student education and who can give it.
Most doctors who provide medical education in the clinical years are NOT employees of medical schools. Often they have Honorary or supernumerary contracts. So they are not on a pathway to becoming a Professor

I did not say what you are saying I said or can't say.
What I am saying is you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how medical education works.
Doctors who do most of the teaching are not academics but clinicians

Lolz. Social media with their youthful exuberance....you don't even know me nor my field of endeavour and you are making a critical analysis of me. Teaching hospitals (where medical students are trained by clinicians) are subsets/units of universities e.g LUTH, ABUTH, LASUTH, JUTH, UCH.....Since you choose to know it all and concludes that they are not employees of a university....good luck to you...there's no point wasting my time with you.....

AlphaT1:

Lolz. Social media with their youthful exuberance....you don't even know me nor my field of endeavour and you are making a critical analysis of me. Teaching hospitals (where medical students are trained by clinicians) are subsets/units of universities e.g LUTH, ABUTH, LASUTH, JUTH, UCH.....Since you choose to know it all and concludes that they are not employees of a university....good luck to you...there's no point wasting my time with you.....

Shamelessly you continue to expose your ignorance

LUTH is NOT a subset of any university.
It is a tertiary Hospital under the Ministry of health with a Chief Medical Director at the helm,just like Igbobi Orthopaedics or Aro Psychiatry.


What is a subset of UNILAG is the CMUL college of medicine university of Lagos with a Provost at the helm.
They just happen to occupy the same site.

Most Consultants are employed by LUTH not CMUL except the tiny number who are pursuing an academic career.

Clinical teaching happens in LUTH wards ,theatres etc though students also go to other places like Massey Street,Ysba, Igbobi etc.

None of these places are under CMUL and are not subsets as you ignorantly assert

AK481:


unlike other field like ? engineering?

Every field can negotiate for itself
Must everyone go to toilet together

The point is it has NEVER been any other way in Nigeria or indeed most countries where you find Nigerian doctors
If some people decide today that it should change and medicine should fall in line with other degrees then predictably doctors will have an opinion and reaction
Those in the know can predict it will not happen

0m0nnakoda:

Shamelessly you continue to expose your ignorance

LUTH is NOT a subset of any university.
It is a tertiary Hospital under the Ministry of health with a Chief Medical Director at the helm,just like Igbobi Orthopaedics or Aro Psychiatry.


What is a subset of UNILAG is the CMUL college of medicine university of Lagos with a Provost at the helm.
They just happen to occupy the same site.

Most Consultants are employed by LUTH not CMUL except the tiny number who are pursuing an academic career.

Clinical teaching happens in LUTH wards ,theatres etc though students also go to other places like Massey Street,Ysba, Igbobi etc.

None of these places are under CMUL and are not subsets as you ignorantly assert

In other words ignoramus wise man is saying teaching hospitals are established without any university link....this is good wisdom....kontinue

NATIONAL UNIVERSITIES COMMISSION BENCHMARK MINIMUM ACADEMIC STANDARDS FOR POSTGRADUATE PROGRAMMES IN BASIC MEDICAL AND HEALTH SCIENCES IN NIGERIAN UNIVERSITIES

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4gBc2WlymPDS0FOVTZXa3lOYjg/view