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Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? - Religion (11) - Nairaland

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Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by achorladey: 9:19pm On May 02
charlesucheh:
leave that Naive being.

Na him go first carry cutlass when he feels threatened o!!

Reality tells me he will carry his own load last last after all he has said he is perfect like his father.

It behold on him to do the right thing in the face of threat just like his father.
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by charlesucheh(m): 9:20pm On May 02
Kobojunkie:
Unfortunately, I see now that it the case that you lack understanding of who Jesus Christ is, that is why you keep putting up the 10 commandments,rules given by God only to those who were born of the blood of Jacob. undecided

Please, abandon the lies you have been fed and pick up that Bjble to read it for yourself. God's Truth has been available for the past 2000 years for you so it isn't God holding you back from His Truth but you continually choosing ignorance where His Truth is concerned. undecided
was God sectionalizing when he made those laws for the Israelites? why is your reasoning like this? to counter my position by all means? haba!
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 9:27pm On May 02
charlesucheh:
was God sectionalizing when he made those laws for the Israelites? why is your reasoning like this? to counter my position by all means? haba!
Yes, God was sectionalizing and He made no attempts to hide it given that throughout the Old testament He sings of How Israel is His people and He is their God. undecided

You don't need to try to defend God by denying that which is right before your eyes. God is not foolish for doing what He did and even Jesus Christ did not attempt in any way to hide the fact that His original mission was to the lost sheep of Israel and not to the uncircumcised non israelites. undecided
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by generationz(f): 9:29pm On May 02
[quote author=Solowande post=89135954]
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by achorladey: 9:30pm On May 02
Kobojunkie:
I didn't ask you of perfection but concerning the claim that even God's "defence of" or lack thereof is a 2-way street. undecided

As for perfection, yes I am perfect since I am no longer a slave to sin. See John 8 and John 14 to learn how to become a Son of God too. undecided

I didn't ask you of perfection

I don't want to believe you are finding it difficult to comprehend my post. That post didn't respond to anything perfection

but concerning the claim that even God's "defence of" or lack thereof is a 2-way street.

I have shown you repeatedly that God will defend the apple of his eyes as very good example of self defense of which you equally support in the affirmative that God does so.

After Jesus resurrection, Peter was jailed, God sent his angel to singlehandedly lead Peter out of prison. Self defense I repeat is a two way street from the antecedent of God recorded in the scriptures that you know well enough.

As for perfection, yes I am perfect since I am no longer a slave to sin

Are you perfect? Your answer YES!

Are you in the same level like God?

I await your response cheesy

See John 8 and John 14 to learn how to become a Son of God too.

Who gave you right to be son of God? I don't have to get to John 8, 14. John 1 captures it well enough.
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by charlesucheh(m): 9:35pm On May 02
Kobojunkie:
Yes, God was sectionalizing and He made no attempts to hide it given that throughout the Old testament He sings of How Israel is His people and He is their God. undecided

You don't need to try to defend God by denying that which is right before your eyes. God is not foolish for doing what He did and even Jesus Christ did not attempt in any way to hide the fact that His original mission was to the lost sheep of Israel and not to the uncircumcised non israelites. undecided
you just destroyed the mindset of an aspiring Christian. let me round it all up for you. the ten commandments is what my faith lays on. I believe anything that goes contrary to its content should be regarded as a sin against God, and in so far as defending myself while being attacked isn't contradicting it, then, it is not a SIN.
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 9:53pm On May 02
charlesucheh:
you just destroyed the mindset of an aspiring Christian. let me round it all up for you. the ten commandments is what my faith lays on. I believe anything that goes contrary to its content should be regarded as a sin against God, and in so far as defending myself while being attacked isn't contradicting it, then, it is not a SIN.
Aspiring Christian? undecided

Christianity is not for the faint of heart. If you are not willing to die to self and your own way of doing things, you should only even bother at all. undecided

It gets worse, if you are not willing to lose everything you value,including your life, you will never be worthy of Jesus CHRIST. So, you need to think deep and hard as to whether this is even for you before you make that leap and one only way to make an informed decision in this is to learn the Truth of Jesus Christ as it is written of in the Gospels , and not as you imagined it to be undecided

God never said anything that goes contrary to the 10 commandments is what He considers sin, so I don't know what God your faith lies in but it certainly isn't the same God written of in the bible. undecided
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 10:01pm On May 02
achorladey:

I didn't ask you of perfection


I don't want to believe you are finding it to comprehend my post. That post didn't respond to anything perfection
but concerning the claim that even God's "defence of" or lack thereof is a 2-way street.

I have shown you repeatedly that God will defend the apple of his eyes as very good example of self defense of which you equally support in the affirmative that God does so.


After Jesus resurrection, Peter was jailed, God sent his angel to singlehandedly lead Peter out of prison. Self defense I repeat is a two way street from the antecedent of God recorded in the scriptures that you know well enough.

As for perfection, yes I am perfect since I am no longer a slave to sin
Are you perfect? Your answer YES!
Are you in the same level like God?
I await your response cheesy
See John 8 and John 14 to learn how to become a Son of God too.
Who gave you right to be son of God? I don't have to get to John 8, 14. John 1 captures it well enough
John 8 explains to you how you can in fact become a son of God. John 1 only tells you that you have the ability to become one. undecided

Jesus Christ said "Be ye perfect even as your father is perfect". Did He somehow imply from that there there were levels to this perfection He speaks of? undecided
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by achorladey: 10:11pm On May 02
Kobojunkie:
John 8 explains to you how you can in fact become a son of God. John 1 only tells you that you have the ability to become one. undecided

Jesus Christ said "Be ye perfect even as your father is perfect". Did He somehow imply from that there there were levels to this perfection He speaks of? undecided

Jesus Christ said "Be ye perfect even as your father is perfect". Did He somehow imply from that there there were levels to this perfection He speaks of

So what is the essence of asking me this question below?

Are you in the same level like God?

Reality tells me you are not on and in the same level as God.

John 8 explains to you how you can in fact become a son of God. John 1 only tells you that you have the ability to become one.

John 1:12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.

Is this scripture about the ability of becoming son of God or how you can become son of God?
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Princewell2012(m): 10:15pm On May 02
TGM2015:


You wife kicked against it because she fears something bad might happen to you, like getting injured or killed, not because she think it is bad.

Hmm I think you're right. God bless you.
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 10:26pm On May 02
achorladey:

Jesus Christ said "Be ye perfect even as your father is perfect". Did He somehow imply from that there there were levels to this perfection He speaks of

So what is the essence of asking me this question below?

Are you in the same level like God?

Reality tells me you are not on and in the same level as God.

John 8 explains to you how you can in fact become a son of God. John 1 only tells you that you have the ability to become one.

John 1:12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.

Is this scripture about the ability of becoming son of God or how you can become son of God?
you tell me! undecided
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Princewell2012(m): 10:32pm On May 02
Ayomivic:


To me , I think self defence is not a sin but it has the limit you can do when you want to defend yourself. We all knows that war is not a sin I you are the good guys that wanted to protect life and properties or free yourself from oppressor as children of Israel fought to free themselves from oppressors .

but I think it is best to save yourself by escaping or injure the operators if there is a chance to do than aim to kill because as a Christian the first thing to think of is peace. Remember God told israelites that when they are approaching a war with a one nation, they should first negotiate peace with that nation but if they disagreed with the peace they offered, then , they can give to them what they want the fault is not in them.

Also remember God told them not to follow multitude to do evil

Which state are you presently? did you heard about one million boys terrorizing the town in Lagos?

so how do you make peace with a man that wanted to attack you?


My pastor wife is a traveler she worked with Nafdac. Today she was giving a testimony how God have been seeing her through, truoughout from Fulani herdsmen on her journey.. She said there was a day Fulani herdsmen stop a bus but an old man was there with his children a man of more than 70 years old. But this man does not have enough money with him apart from 1.500 naira left with him, but this people gave him a serious beating of his life for having only one thousand five hundred, they even threatened to throw the children on main road so a speeding vehicle will crush them.

So how do you make peace with them unless you have enough money with you to beg them, that is even if they want money from you and not after your life.
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by achorladey: 10:35pm On May 02
Kobojunkie:
you tell me! undecided

It's your question from the start, I gave answer to it when you asked me.

I am returning the favor back to you.

Then another helping question Do you have BURGLARY PROOF in the house you live now?
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 10:37pm On May 02
achorladey:

It's your question from the start, I gave answer to it when you asked me.

I am returning the favor back to you.
Then another helping question Do you have BURGLARY PROOF in the house you live now?
I was clear in the question I asked when I asked it and you refused to answer it then, and I don't see that applies or is relevant in this or any other case given the assumption it based on. undecided

As for your question on burglary proof in ones abode, God's commandments are decided by the actions of individuals. His declaration is absolute,whether people agree or obey it or not. undecided
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by achorladey: 10:39pm On May 02
Kobojunkie:
I was clear in the question I asked when I asked it and you refused to answer it then, and I don't see that applies or is relevant in this or any other case given the assumption it based on. undecided

Bring the question back. I will show you my response.

Then another helping question Do you have BURGLARY PROOF in the house you live now?
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 10:40pm On May 02
achorladey:


Bring the question back. I will show you my response.

Then another helping question Do you have BURGLARY PROOF in the house you live now?
As for your question on burglary proof in ones abode, God's commandments are decided by the actions of individuals. His declaration is absolute,whether people agree or obey it or not.
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by achorladey: 10:52pm On May 02
Kobojunkie:

As for your question on burglary proof in ones abode, God's commandments are decided by the actions of individuals. His declaration is absolute,whether people agree or obey it or not.

Since I engaged you on this, I decided to keep following along to see where this leads. What I am looking for was supplied long before this time as the conversation progressed by you.

1. Reality tells me you live in a house with BURGLARY PROOF. Of which you know it's importance.

2. You didn't bother to touch the aspect I asked about work of soldiers in a country and regarding same Jesus words concerning a SOLDIER impressing you for just one mile. Jesus said GO TWO MILES.


In the final analysis it comes down to AS FAR AS IT DEPENDS ON YOU BE PEACEABLE WITH ALL MEN. The prayer here is it Should continually depends on us all the time. The reason I stated earlier the THIN line between pacifism and self defense with the associated grey areas.

Kobojunkiee are you a PACIFIST? Is the God you serve a PACIFIST? Should you choose to answer be careful before diving into it.
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 10:55pm On May 02
achorladey:

Since I engaged you on this, I decided to keep following along to see where this leads. What I am looking for was supplied long before this time as the conversation progressed by you.

1. Reality tells me you live in a house with BURGLARY PROOF. Of which you know it's importance.

2. You didn't bother to touch the aspect I asked about work of soldiers in a country and regarding same Jesus words concerning a SOLDIER impressing you for just one mile. Jesus said GO TWO MILES.


In the final analysis it comes down to AS FAR AS IT DEPENDS ON YOU BE PEACEABLE WITH ALL MEN. The prayer here is it Should continually depends on us all the time. The reason I stated earlier the THIN line between pacifism and self defense with the associated grey areas.

Kobojunkiee are you a PACIFIST? Is the God you serve a PACIFIST? Should you choose to answer be careful before diving into it.
Again, God's Law where sin is concerned is not dependent on whether a one agrees or not,or whether a one obeys or not. undecided

If 2.5 billion Christians refuse to obey His commandments, God has no problem giving them ,all 2.5billion of them, their just reward in the end. undecided
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Princewell2012(m): 10:55pm On May 02
seunayantokun:
If you have sheep, and wolves come close to kill them, will you fight back?

If you have a wife, and someone comes into your house attempting to stab you, kill your children and sleep with your wife, will you fight back?

If all your life savings are to be taken away one way or another, are you supposed to fight back?

And your life does not matter to God and you so that anybody can take it at will?

Are you saying God created you and this beautiful planet to be destroyed by some?

Are you saying God does not have any purpose for some people and they are meant to be dehumanised and wiped out by some evil creatures who do not have respect for human life and live by retrogressive thoughts?

Does God say the natural elements for self protection, and protection of your property which HE put in you must be abandoned because they are useless?

Did God not instruct Adam and Eve to care for and KEEP the garden of Eden (in their own interest)?

Is their failure to do so not responsible for what the world is suffering today?

Did Abraham not fight to protect Lot and his neighbours? Did he not receive support and blessing from a priest of God, Melchizedek, as a result? Did God condemn him?

Did he retaliate personal grudges? No. Did he have evil or destructive thought against other people? No. That's what Jesus Christ has taught us: live in peace with all men and holiness without which no one shall see the Lord.

However, self preservation and protection of all creation is a responsibility given man by the Lord Almighty. And in doing so is the will of God fulfilled. God will hold every person, body and organisation saddled with responsibility of security of life and property responsible and accountable for any failure. Heads of families, communities, churches, police, military forces, governments, international bodies, etc will be judged by God in respect of this (I have lots of things to say in respect of this but there is no time).

That is why Buhari and his terrorist groups must be told the truth. That is why Nigerians must protect themselves in view of the failure of the government of Buhari.

Did you know the Gospel is obstructed in a situation of insecurity of lives, property and environment? Before the birth of Christ and His Gospel, God had to use the Roman powers to police and secure every part of the then known world, build bridges, construct roads (infrastructure) , etc. People were able to move from one part of the empire to another without being waylaid, kidnapped, robbed by terrorists of the time, businesses were thriving, etc. So, when Jesus commanded His disciples to go to all parts of the world preaching the Gospel, they were able to do so easily. What they did not do was resent those who persecute them for the sake of Christ; they did not fight those who blasphemed their Saviour; they did not create an empire that would be ruled with Holy Scripture; they were arrested and brutally killed because they preached the Lord but were not denying their faith or fighting back on account of salvation matter.

So, in our case in Nigeria, people must be protected, property must be protected, environment must be preserved, there must be development, etc. When a government or some are averse to that, asking others to give their land or lives for RUGA, killed and kidnapped for ransoms, victims and good people must rise to the occasion. Failure to rise is a dereliction of divine duty and criminal abandonment of natural responsibility. God will judge that too. God just doesn't put people in power but for security of lives and property, and development. That is why Romans 13:1-5 commands Christians in time past and present to obey the government for our benefits because it is put in place to deal with criminality.

But when the devil is in charge of the government, resist the devil and he will flee from you (James 4:7). Wherever the devil is operating, resist him. When a government becomes a weapon of human rights violation and access of evils, God's judgement shall follow suit. When Ahab became evil and committed all sorts of human rights violation, Elijah, Michaiah, Jehu and others led resistance against him and his cabal until he was no more (1Kings 18, 19, 21 22; 2Kings10:1 - 17).

The evil king asked Naboth to give up his land for a vegetable garden (RUGA, if you like), but the latter denied him. The cabal who have a lot of terrorists working for them organised and killed him -With regard to Naboth's case, there are lots to say but now. However, suffice to say dining and wining with the devil who desires your land for RUGA is not safe.

In short, the judgement of God came upon President Ahab. Blood is overflowing in Nigeria whose president is Mohammadu Buhari who is shirking his responsibility to protect Nigeria and Nigerians for reasons known to him, his cabal, etc, May God without further delay uproot their government in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen

You are very knowledgeable about the Holy scripture. Are you a pastor or a judge?

You have nailed it on the head. no more word again.

I will like to follow you up here or try to get you on whatsapp. since this place is a public forum.

God bless you.
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by seunayantokun(m): 11:09pm On May 02
Kobojunkie:
I laught at the way majority of you AVOID the teachings of Jesus Christ as if revealing that you don' even care for what He, the one who many of you call savior, has to say in regards to these things . undecided

What are you saying, please?
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by seunayantokun(m): 11:28pm On May 02
Princewell2012:


You are very knowledgeable about the Holy scripture. Are you a pastor or a judge?

You have nailed it on the head. no more word again.

I will like to follow you up here or try to get you on whatsapp. since this place is a public forum.

God bless you.
Send me an email tomorrow using seunayantokun@yahoo.co.uk. We'll take it from there. Thank you
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by PrecisionFx(m): 11:54pm On May 02
Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ was simply "preparing the stage" ,if you will, for the next prophesy spoken by Isaiah to be fulfilled moments later. undecided

U didn't make any attempt to answer my question
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 12:13am On May 03
PrecisionFx:

U didn't make any attempt to answer my question
I did! The answer to why Jesus Christ sad what He did can best be explained when you in fact read through the rest of the chapter.
And like I said.. when Jesus Christ ordered to go buy a sword, he was preparing the stage for what was to take place next. lipsrsealed
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by PrecisionFx(m): 1:06am On May 03
Kobojunkie:
I did! The answer to why Jesus Christ sad what He did can best be explained when you in fact read through the rest of the chapter.
And like I said.. when Jesus Christ ordered to go buy a sword, he was preparing the stage for what was to take place next. lipsrsealed

Jesus told all his followers to buy swords to prepare for d next stage, Which stage? War?
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 1:24am On May 03
PrecisionFx:

Jesus told all his followers to buy swords to prepare for d next stage, Which stage? War?
What did Jesus Christ say right after He told them to get the sword? undecided
And what event took place almost immediately afterwards? undecided
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by achorladey: 8:22am On May 03
Kobojunkie:
Again, God's Law where sin is concerned is not dependent on whether a one agrees or not,or whether a one obeys or not. undecided

If 2.5 billion Christians refuse to obey His commandments, God has no problem giving them ,all 2.5billion of them, their just reward in the end. undecided

And God is merciful enough to consider the circumstances leading them to disobey his commandments of which self defense comes under.
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by PrecisionFx(m): 9:30am On May 03
Kobojunkie:
What did Jesus Christ say right after He told them to get the sword? undecided
And what event took place almost immediately afterwards? undecided

Answer my question.
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Rhazie: 9:46am On May 03
self defense is not a crime and not a sin onto God. watch and pray says the Bible, when God want to work he uses man, he won't come down from heaven to do it himself. when Israelites go to war and defend their homes they pray for victory and also participate in it. Joshua as a case study.
"On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel: "O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day."
Joshua 10:12-13
read the following Bible verses for better understanding.
Luke 21:34-36
"But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
Luke 11:21 “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own mansion, his property is safe.”

Isaiah 49:25 “Who can snatch the plunder of war from the hands of a warrior? Who can demand that a tyrant let his captives go?”

Exodus 22:2-3 “If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is struck and killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty of murder. But if it happens in daylight, the one who killed the thief is guilty of murder.”
Shalom
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 11:52am On May 03
achorladey:

And God is merciful enough to consider the circumstances leading them to disobey his commandments of which self defense comes under.
LOL... Maybe you and I have infact been speaking all this while of different God's then. undecided
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by Kobojunkie: 11:54am On May 03
PrecisionFx:

Answer my question.
You have to read the book in order to grasp this one. I am not going to spoon feed you the answers. undecided
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by gbengu(m): 1:55pm On May 03
To be candid, logical and reasonable it's normal, just that even the ministerial work has been polluted and most are using it for selfishness at the expense of poor church masses.

Let's be clear on this. Once you attain a position or level that draw crowds from different works or levels of life, then you need personal protection.

All Christians either big, small, known or unknown need spiritual protection from God and He will definitely do that so far they're under His coverage.

Personal protection is part of protocols to preserve, protect yourself because once your are popular, rich, have multitudes/followers, helping out, delivery people from bondage, having big ministry, then you've already becons to both good, bad and ugly to locate you.

People are lover of evils and money. You've definitely attracted both good and bad people.

Some are even envious in the things of God. Many pastors are already jealous. Arm robbers are already looking for ways to take their own, kidnappers are also planning theirs, agent of Devil against the ministry are doing theirs spiritually and physically, even some might join ur ministry just take you for granted. Some might plant their agents and whatever in the congregation in disguise to be your member. Then spiritual protection is needed first to settle things with your maker and physical personal protection in anyways or pattern is needed too.

If as a pastor, you ordinarily don't want all that; then the position you occupy will force you because many strong members and leaders in the ministry already see you as their G.O, leader, daddy etc and will ensure they create human protocols for that office.

In another angle, you'll be priviledge to have VVIP coming for visit, meetings. Thus you've to factor them in your personal protection/protocols.

Jesus did not do all those personal protection or protocols but literally if you check your Bible very well, the Disciples create a somehow protocols for him to prevent every nuk and harry despite that Jesus was free with all people.

Imagine the man they've to put through the roof. Look at when disciples were preventing the children to come and play With Jesus. Look at the woman with the issues of Blood, maybe she has tried her best just to see Jesus personally/one on one.




Princewell2012:


Hmm wonderful. God is too much.

So you mean all those pastors going out with armed escort is normal?
Re: Is It A Sin For A Christian To Fight Back As A Self Defense? by achorladey: 3:41pm On May 03
Kobojunkie:
LOL... Maybe you and I have infact been speaking all this while of different God's then. undecided

What I need is your maybe.

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