LukasPodolski:

Baba gerrahere mehn.

Below is Yoruba and Igbo voting pattern since Independence.

Suddenly we betrayed the south because we rejected an ingrate whom we singlehandedly made the president (exaggeration).

Omo ale.

Igboid:


Reasons for Yoruba love for Nigeria.

1. Lagos monopoly means that they will continue to economically exploit the rest of the country. They are hoping this continues so that through Lagos, they can spread development to the rest of their region.

2. They never fare well on their own. Remove the shared Igbo resentment and Yorubas will struggle to have a uniting factor.
They were on each others neck fighting kiriji during the precolonial days, they couldn't evolve to live in peace with each other.
Once the minorities were off in western region, Yorubas couldn't deal with themselves. They descended into anarchy again in the infamous wild wild west and operation wetie.
As a people, they are only united when they have a common foe to hate or try to oppress. When this doesn't exist, they turn on each other.
I have spent years analysing the Yorubas.

They need Nigeria and Igbo in it, to remain united. Modern day Yoruba nationalism is built around shared Igbophobia. This started from the "Yoruba Ronu" speech. When you want to unite a people, you gift them a common enemy to hate. Hate is a bigger uniting factor than anything else known to mankind.

Divide Nigeria, take Igbos out of the picture, modern Yoruba unity will crash again like in Kiriji and Wild wild west days.

Iceberg3:


Nobody asked you for this, you can shove it up your a......
Be a man and say amen to your own prayer.

diplomat058:
Well, I am not really keen on the blame games. For the records, Awo and Gowon are also entitled to knocks in that regard, but exonerating Zik and Ironsi is a betrayal of history. In the pre-independence, Zik paraded himself as a core nationalist and sought sought to undermine the regional structures and mutate self determination. He effectively convinced the NPC to remove the secession clause from the constitution. He favoured the centralization of powers to put the destines of all the peoples in common hands. Ironsi issued unification decree 34 which shattered the then viable federalism. Although the decree was short lived, I believe it prepared the psychosocial groundwork for the later undoing of Gowon who acted to salvage the country from dissolution. And don't forget that if Ironsi had done the needful, we may not have had a war.

That said, I wish the country was successfully torn apart then. I also blame Awo for his culpability in the wreckage of the then viable federalism. And

Uchek:
When did Obasanjo become Igbo? How did you single-handely make Jonathan president?

diplomat058:
Well, I am not really keen on the blame games. For the records, Awo and Gowon are also entitled to knocks in that regard, but exonerating Zik and Ironsi is a betrayal of history. In the pre-independence, Zik paraded himself as a core nationalist and sought sought to undermine the regional structures and mutate self determination. He effectively convinced the NPC to remove the secession clause from the constitution. He favoured the centralization of powers to put the destines of all the peoples in common hands. Ironsi issued unification decree 34 which shattered the then viable federalism. Although the decree was short lived, I believe it prepared the psychosocial groundwork for the later undoing of Gowon who acted to salvage the country from dissolution. And don't forget that if Ironsi had done the needful, we may not have had a war.

That said, I wish the country was successfully torn apart then. I also blame Awo for his culpability in the wreckage of the then viable federalism. And

diplomat058:
So much fallacies are inherent in your post. If you talk of unity, I believe the Yorubas did set a precedence for most kingdoms and civilizations west of the Niger. What political unity supersede the building of an empire? The Oyo empire was a testament of the cooperative sagacity of our forefathers. Also, there was cultural unity as all Yoruba kingdoms pledged existential allegiances to Ile Ife which they all regarded as the cradle of Yoruba civilization.
If Yorubas weren't united, the Fulanis wouldn't be defeated twice in Osogbo war of 1840, and in the 1870s. The Ibadan generals led the coalition army, defeated the Fulanis, went to Ilorin to cut off the head of their Emir, but the Ilorin people, for Islamic reasons, decided to keep the Emirate, instead of returning to the traditional monarchy which they called pagan and an islamic Haram.

Yoruba people cooperated via OPC, NADECO and others to press for a Yoruba presidency, as a compensation for the Abiola case.

You talk as if civil wars are alien to mankind. Even some of the world greatest civilizations experienced civil wars. The English had theirs in the 17th century. The German had theirs which led to the expulsion of Germanic Austria from the then German Confederacy. The Italians had series of wars among themselves, viz a viz Venetia, Milan, Lombardy, Napoli, Sicilia and the rest, until Mazini and Garibaldi, great nationalists, united the country in 1870. Would you say Italians were a primitive people?

Many of you guys just analyse history from a wrapped mindset and at their best, your prejudiced analyses are best reserved for the bin.

LukasPodolski:
Mr Igboid Nigeria has over 250 ethnic group, seems Igbos are the only group having having sleepless night over Lagos matter, why is this so?

You guys claimed you developed Lagos, few days ago a Nairalander that goes by Deepfeel said Igbos owned Sabo gari in Kano.

Don't you think these act of chest beating is an insult to your host and might trigger them to attack you guys (just as the Northerners have been doing)

The mayor of London is from Pakistan.

LukasPodolski:
Mr igboid The British made Lagos the capital of Nigeria after the amalgamation, Now:

Can you tell us why the British didn't find any of Onitsha, Port Harcourt Enugu e.t.c Worthy of being the capital?

Considering Lagos wasn't the only coaster State.

Lagos was not even in the centre of Nigeria.

Can you please tell us why the British made Lagos the capital going by the above.

Igboid:


You are just beating round the bush.
Zik had no gun, he had no hypnotic powers. He only had his opinions. If others bought his opinion and favoured the unity of the country at that time as against having secession clause. How can you Yorubas extrapolate it to say that Zik stopped secession clause insertion?
Did Zik point gun at anyone? Was he a wizard that hypnotized others? How can you lots be this mischievous.

On Ironsi, I am glad we finally accepted that he wasn't the one who destroyed the regional arrangements. He only united the civil service, which didn't sit well with the North who had already said they would rather import Lebanese and other non black races to take up slots in Northern civil service than have qualified Igbos fill that post. Now tell me what real country or leader would allow that to continue if the aim is to build a functional united country.

Now you are giving excuses to justify Awolowo and Gowon evil of dividing the regions and setting into play the chain of events that led to Nigeria failure.
We are atleast getting to somewhere.
I will let you know that the road to hell are usually filled with good intentions.

It's time you Yorubas accept that Awolowo supported Gowon to kill and bury federalism.
It's time you stopped blaming Ironsi for sins of your own heroes.

You said Ironsi watered the ground? What exactly is the meaning of that?
What a lame excuse!

Did Ironsi or did he not dissolve the regions?
The Answer is No! Thank you.

Did Gowon with Awolowo counsel dissolve the regions and replaced them with dysfunctional states that led to Nigeria inevitable death?

The Answer is Yes! Thank you.

Every other thing is subjective analysis.

Igboid:


Your unification against Fulanis explained my point.
You were united by common hate for Fulanis.

Once the Fulanis were out of the way, you fell back to fighting each other. You couldn't find an abstract thing to replace the hate with.

Hate is a good way to unite people.
But it shouldn't be hate for others. It should be hate for abstract things.
For example, the Igbos are all over the world both in slavery and at home united by hate for subjugation, retrogression, failure and marginalization.
In modern times, we hate Nigeria as an entity because she embodies the above characteristics.

We only hate you when you are seen to be supporting and promoting things we hate.
For example, it would appear Igbos hate Yorubas, when in truth, it's Yorubas penchant for subtly fighting to keep Igbos in Nigeria that we hate.
The Igbo is united by hate for failure or retrogression which was why Buhari could never sell in SE despite having two Igbo VPs, and while Abia and it's leadership are continuously bashed currently by other Igbos.

Iceberg3:


Nobody asked you for this, you can shove it up your a......
Be a man and say amen to your own prayer.

diplomat058:
Lol.

Well, if you refuse to acknowledge Zik and Ironsi's complicities, then I am afraid that your points are all baseless. You said Zik didn't force Balewa and Bello for the removal of the secession clause, that he just advised them to wreck regional autonomy. I am poised to ask you that did Awo force Gowon to blockade Biafra? Did he force him to create the state system? 'No', of course, is the answer. So, we are even. If Ironsi had dine the needful, we wouldn't have had a war, I still insist. The January coup was reputed to have ethnic rationale and when Ironsi came in, all his actions effectively justified and affirmed the suspicions. He first passed unification decree 34 to centralize powers in the hands of his people and then refuse to court martial the perpetrators of the coup, in defiance of signs of impending national upheavals. That was the height of insensitivity and arrogance. When the gates of hell were finally opened, Zik, the self acclaimed nationalist, was standing by the secessionists. when the war substantive turned in favour of the federal troops, Zik renounced his support for Biafra and joined the Nigerian side. That alone exposed him as an opportunist who was only concerned with self gratification. He only masqueraded with the nationalist show to gain power in the West, unsuccessfully.

Igboid:


They were always choosing coastal areas to build capital cities, I mean the Western colonialists.
This is because, they came strictly for exploitation of the continent, so they usually built their base to the nearest point of exit of exploited raw materials from the colony to the sea, which is the coasts.
Look at West African map. Lome, Porto Novo, Abidjan, Accra, Monrovia, Conakry, etc are all colonial capital cities, they were all facing the Atlantic.
Onitsha was inland so stood no chance.

Ph port had too many mangrove swamps leading from Atlantic coast to Land, it made navigation of big vessels hard. Calabar port were shallow I learnt.
They had to choose between Lagos and Calabar, Lagos won in the end.
It wasn't anything to do with Lagos indigenes (Egun/Ijebu/Aworis/Tapa), it was strictly business for the British.
Perhaps if Lagos colony wasn't amalgamated to Southern colony in 1906. If Lagos colony became an independent country of its own. Calabar would have become the capital of united Nigeria comprising of current SE/SS and North, while Lagos will be the capital of a small Yoruba only country.

Igboid:


Your unification against Fulanis explained my point.
You were united by common hate for Fulanis.

Once the Fulanis were out of the way, you fell back to fighting each other. You couldn't find an abstract thing to replace the hate with.

Hate is a good way to unite people.
But it shouldn't be hate for others. It should be hate for abstract things.
For example, the Igbos are all over the world both in slavery and at home united by hate for subjugation, retrogression, failure and marginalization.
In modern times, we hate Nigeria as an entity because she embodies the above characteristics.

We only hate you when you are seen to be supporting and promoting things we hate.
For example, it would appear Igbos hate Yorubas, when in truth, it's Yorubas penchant for subtly fighting to keep Igbos in Nigeria that we hate.
The Igbo is united by hate for failure or retrogression which was why Buhari could never sell in SE despite having two Igbo VPs, and while Abia and it's leadership are continuously bashed currently by other Igbos.

omonnakoda:


The fundamental problem with Ibos is lies,dishonesty and revisionism

If anyone has done anything to keep you in Nigeria against your will it is Hausa and Fulani
Why are you too cowardly to face them.
Why transfer your aggression to Yoruba.
Stockholm Syndrome

Your antecedents in the first republic are well known to those old enough to remember directly or from research.
You want Yoruba to pretend those things did not happen.

You concoct the fiction of Yoruba fighting to keep you in Nigeria. What is our business with you? . It is cheap emotional blackmail. Did Yoruba bring you into Nigeria?

Has any Ibo elected politician ever done anything to actualize Biafra?

You don't get Biafra by force or rabble rousing.

In Africa you do not marry a woman by making an announcement in the market. There is a procedure.
If you want Biafra your leaders know what to do?it is not a 5 month project. You need to decide are you going to follow a democratic approach or use force of arms. That is YOUR CHOICE. Nothing to do with us. If you try force then be prepared to face the consequences
If not start electing people committed to Biafra to fight for it. For now you have not communicated to us officially they want Biafra, it is a rumoy

What did you do about Biafra when Goodluck Jonathan was in power?

PHAYOL81:
Like helinues had said, if the restructuring stuff is coming to reality, it's not going to be the Yorubas pulling the string; at least not now. Unless you care not to see the real picture on ground or you're just another tribe under the cloak of the Yorubas. Point blank, yorubas are right in the middle. If it breaks, good; if no one is bold to see it happen, fine. Yet, we won't be bully to submit our position; not through abuse, not through tantrums, not through FINGERING.

The Yorubas are looking at the situation closely and monitoring our chances on both fronts, so they'll only take decision when they are entirely sure it's the only option left. We have interests and we have plans but like they say, you don't reveal your joker. It's a secret!

Infact, I don't see any point in this opinion seeking, because no true yorubas would blab about our position or ask us to blindly tilt to a side 'cause such decision might come back to haunt. Remember, we have six zones. The answers lie hugely on what others agree to do not really what we want to do because our decision is clear. We stand in the middle.

4Play:


There is no such thing as host between citizens of a country. That is the reasoning of a backward person. Can you imagine a Londoner claiming he is hosting a Geordie from Newcastle, UK who moved to London? You won't be able to utter such drivel in civilised settings.


You have 2 choices, you can either secede and in that case treat non-indigenes as foreigners or accept the necessary implication of being in one country: that citizens of the country who have legitimately acquired residence have a right of stay in any part of the country.

This your host/guest lingo is a symptom of a benighted bigoted mindset that helps condemn the country to remain a failure.

Look at that London example you gave of Sadiq Khan - a Muslim son of a Pakistani driver. I have heard non-whites say repeatedly that they built London after the 2nd world war. I saw Dianne Abbot MP say it on BBC Question Time. Factually, I think it's hogwash as is Igbos claiming they built Lagos but to suggest that it is good grounds for attacking an ethnicity speaks to your barbaric inclinations.

There is also a qualm I have with people who keep pursuing the "we must develop our region" line. If you actually develop your region to the exclusion of other regions, those other regions' people will eventually relocate to yours. Given that demography is destiny, if the birth rates of the undeveloped region's people is higher than yours, with exponential growth, your region's population will be supplanted (within and outside your region). This is why I am keen on infrastructure investment in the North and anti-poverty programs up North because I recognize that an underdeveloped North will pose dire security and economic challenges to the South.

At some point, you have to recognize that you are either fully invested in the one country you actually have with no naive deliberations on "our tribe vs others" or you go all out for secession. Fighting one another while tied to a country is like the organs of the body fighting each other for superiority.

diplomat058:
Bro, once again, your post is erroneous.

I debunked your claim that Yorubas are always united by hate, by giving you a rundown of historical events that proved otherwise. The Kiriji war was a civil one and civil wars are not peculiar to Yorubas. Just as I highlighted some civil wars among the greatest of the world civilization. I don't know why you had to bring back the defeated claim.

And you said Igbos are always united by hate. Well, I am just knowing that from you. Yorubas don't hate people, rather, we are united by love. Love to have a strong and prosperous nation. Hate is not an option; how many people do you want to hate? Millions? Hate makes you hallucinate at nights. The Yorubas don't hate any ethnic group in Nigeria. We only look out for ourselves and our prosperity and peace, and when you are in the way, we may come together to run you over. After the scores are settled, we will again be at peace with you. That is called STRATEGY OF SURVIVAL. Some people, naively, call it betrayal, but we don't care.

So, know that the Yoruba Man is not after you. If he is, some won't prosper so much in his land that they begin to question its established indigenousness.

4Play:


There is no such thing as host between citizens of a country. That is the reasoning of a backward person. Can you imagine a Londoner claiming he is hosting a Geordie from Newcastle, UK who moved to London? You won't be able to utter such drivel in civilised settings.


You have 2 choices, you can either secede and in that case treat non-indigenes as foreigners or accept the necessary implication of being in one country: that citizens of the country who have legitimately acquired residence have a right of stay in any part of the country.

This your host/guest lingo is a symptom of a benighted bigoted mindset that helps condemn the country to remain a failure.

Look at that London example you gave of Sadiq Khan - a Muslim son of a Pakistani driver. I have heard non-whites say repeatedly that they built London after the 2nd world war. I saw Dianne Abbot MP say it on BBC Question Time. Factually, I think it's hogwash as is Igbos claiming they built Lagos but to suggest that it is good grounds for attacking an ethnicity speaks to your barbaric inclinations.

There is also a qualm I have with people who keep pursuing the "we must develop our region" line. If you actually develop your region to the exclusion of other regions, those other regions' people will eventually relocate to yours. Given that demography is destiny, if the birth rates of the undeveloped region's people is higher than yours, with exponential growth, your region's population will be supplanted (within and outside your region). This is why I am keen on infrastructure investment in the North and anti-poverty programs up North because I recognize that an underdeveloped North will pose dire security and economic challenges to the South.

At some point, you have to recognize that you are either fully invested in the one country you actually have with no naive deliberations on "our tribe vs others" or you go all out for secession. Fighting one another while tied to a country is like the organs of the body fighting each other for superiority.

LukasPodolski:

Well, I will not rubbish your opinion sir.

But don't let us shy away from the fact that There is division in the country which will always justify my use of the word "HOST"

If we can send away Almajiri from Southern Nigeria then I have every right to call myself a host, are almajiris not Nigerian?
If a certain ethnic group can carry out a coup targeted at others.
A major ethnic group being referred to as betrayers. And lots more.

The above justified my use of HOST.

But who do we blame? What is the way out?
The way out is separation and the last ethnic group to call for division is Ndigbos because their Foremost Leader was the only one that supported removal of succession clause.

Restructuring : Nigeria was practicing Regional government before an Igbo man abolished it.
Today the ethnic group clamouring for Division and restructuring are the Ndigbos.

The blame should be on diversity (an Ndigbos for supporting it from the start).

Personally I wouldn't blame Buhari because if I were him I will Care for my tribe more than others.

Igboid:

Now let's make one thing clear. Zik never stopped any one from secession clause. And Awowolo or Western region never seceeded and Zik sent army to bring them in.
Awo not only advised Gowon on dissolution of the regions. He followed it up by pushing a starvation policy to keep Igbos in Nigeria. Awolowo was very vocal in starvation policy promotion.

Ironsi never dissolved the regions. So we agree on that one.
Gowon did, and he had the active support of Awolowo to do so.


Since we are talking about secession clause here.
Let's do a little historical time line breakdown.

If by any chance, the secession clause stood? How exactly could it have helped Biafra in her secession plans?
The moment the military took over, the constitution ceased to exist. It was all about military decrees.
In the period under discuss, Nigeria was not a republic but under military dictatorship. Secession clause like the regional arrangement Gowon met would not survive.
And the constitution before the war were all altered post civil war by 1979 when the republic returned. Starting from the derivation formula to the regional government.

This whole talk of secession clause talk to me, is a redundant and senseless argument instituted By Yorubas to obfuscate issues and justify their support for Nigeria unity.

diplomat058:
No, the talk about secession is not a nonsense. Let me tell you how things would have played out if it was included in the 1960 constitution.

Of course, the constitution is always suspended when there is a successful military coup. But Soldiers rule by martial codes called decrees and in Nigeria, the decrees were mostly extracts from the suspended constitution to provide an operational framework for governance.

And whenever military men were about to hand over, they would oversee the creation of a new constitution. The new constitution was always drafted in reference to that of the old. The only major transitional changes that occurred were only between the 1963 and the 1979 constitutions in the change from parliamentary region-based federal republic to a presidential state-based federal republic. The rests were strictly replicas and minor reviews of the old.

Now, if the secession clause was in the 1963 constitution, would the Biafra secession be much of a big illegal deal, technically? If the clause was to be removed in the succeeding constitution of 1979, would that not spark chaos and resistance like that of June 12?

mystery22:
bro don't expect amen from that clown,Yoruba's are two faced cowards,they say something else and do another thing,after giving Jonathan their promise they later backstabbed him and voted buhari,who is still dealing with them badly...look at the case of femi adesina and the new cos gambari, that's a typical Yoruba man for you....

LukasPodolski:

Don't quote me again.

Igboid:


Ironsi never abolished the regions.
When Ironsi died. There were four regional military head of states still intact.

Gowon with Awolowo support abolished the regions and created dysfunctional states, because they were only interested in sowing seeds of division in Biafra and not looking out for Nigeria interest thereafter.
They chose to abolish the regional set ups over accepting Aburi agreement.
Let's stop with the history revisionism already.

The blame of dissolution of Nigeria regional structures lie fully on Gowon and Awolowo, ie Northern and Yoruba table.

If Gowon and Awolowo didn't dissolve the regions, by the time Mutala Muhammad was killed And OBJ handed handed over to Shagari.
Nigeria would have still had four regions and would simply reverse back to default regional settings.

Iceberg3:


I never quoted you in the beginning,you were the zb that quoted me from your ar...

And I remember telling you to gedda4kOuttaMySight!!!!!!!

Igboid:


Your unification against Fulanis explained my point.
You were united by common hate for Fulanis.

Once the Fulanis were out of the way, you fell back to fighting each other. You couldn't find an abstract thing to replace the hate with.

Hate is a good way to unite people.
But it shouldn't be hate for others. It should be hate for abstract things.
For example, the Igbos are all over the world both in slavery and at home united by hate for subjugation, retrogression, failure and marginalization.
In modern times, we hate Nigeria as an entity because she embodies the above characteristics.

We only hate you when you are seen to be supporting and promoting things we hate.
For example, it would appear Igbos hate Yorubas, when in truth, it's Yorubas penchant for subtly fighting to keep Igbos in Nigeria that we hate.
The Igbo is united by hate for failure or retrogression which was why Buhari could never sell in SE despite having two Igbo VPs, and while Abia and it's leadership are continuously bashed currently by other Igbos.

LukasPodolski:

Goan kill yourself.

Brain dead.