shadeyinka:

Didn't you hear of hell before the notion of no hell came along. Bro, the burden of proof is on you.

If you had slowed down to critically think, you'll observe that the two opposing statements are both CLAIMS. Whenever there is an established claim, the challenging claim has the burden of proof.

I erred in my previous post...indeed hell is an established notion.Apologies

So we will work with the word notion == belief.

Now with that definition, we must agree that a belief is not a fact. Therefore irrespective of how long human beings have held that notion, it remains a notion not a fact. Also you must agree that once a claim remains a notion, it needs to be proven as a fact. Therefore the burden of proof always rests on the one who holds the notion.

This is because the default stance of man is to not believe anything till it has been proven beyond HIS/HER reasonable doubt, aka his or her prior experience regarding the sphere of the claim(in this case, spirituality). And even that doesn't necessarily make it a fact. It must go through the establish standard of scientific testing otherwise it will forever remain a notion(because you cannot prove it)....which you have to spend eons trying to prove to the ones you have made the claim to.

Simply put: establish ur notion as fact then u can asks the doubters to prove you wrong. Not the other way round.

kingxsamz:


That's my problem with him...
How is he going to prove the existence of an eternal furnace to someone who has never heard of it before?
If he tells such person that hell exists, and the person asks him to prove it, does it make any sense for him to ask that person to disprove it, when he hasn't even proved it in the first place?
The guy matter tire me.

Exactly. Oh how i wish christian could prove their claims instead of relying on the fact that majority believe wat we belief therefore it must be true. In this day and age...how can our education fail us this way.

kimco:


Exactly. Oh how i wish christian could prove their claims instead of relying on the fact that majority believe wat we belief therefore it must be true. In this day and age...how can our education fail us this way.

He even called it an established fact.

Seems like some people just go through school, they don't allow the school go through them.

shadeyinka:

Didn't you hear of hell before the notion of no hell came along. Bro, the burden of proof is on you.

If you had slowed down to critically think, you'll observe that the two opposing statements are both CLAIMS. Whenever there is an established claim, the challenging claim has the burden of proof.

That's why I said you should provide a verified source that acknowledges this hell you're talking about.

This guy sef.

kingxsamz:


You're not bright at all.
Please quote where I said pictures are the only thing which validates a claim.
I even asked you to provide a verified source which acknowledges the existence of hell. You avoided that.
Give me proof that hell exists without quoting religious books. I need logical proof.
If you can do that, then I'll know you're intelligent.
But if you keep asking me to disprove what you are unable to prove in the first place, then I'll know you're just an adult with a kid's brain.



Now, in a single sentence, kindly prove to me that hell exists.

I can't bring hell to you but you can experience it if you want: when you die.
Your proof is time bound and you shall surely experience hell (if you do not repent).

kingxsamz:


That's why I said you should provide a verified source that acknowledges this hell you're talking about.

This guy sef.

Check your bible if you have one. The writing is at least 2000 years old making the information therein an established claim.
If you have an older counter- claim, then the bible is the challenging claim.

kimco:


I erred in my previous post...indeed hell is an established notion.Apologies

That's okay!

kimco:

So we will work with the word notion == belief.

Now with that definition, we must agree that a belief is not a fact. Therefore irrespective of how long human beings have held that notion, it remains a notion not a fact.

Agreed!

kimco:

Also you must agree that once a claim remains a notion, it needs to be proven as a fact.

Therefore the burden of proof always rests on the one who holds the notion.

No sir!
The burden of proof still rest with the challenger.

Let me give an example:
Established Notion:
It was long thought that lightning and the accompanying thunder is as a result of Tor smashing his hammer on the anvil.
1. It was a belief
2. It was not a fact
3. It was an established notion
Challenging Claim:
Lightning is a natural phenomenon

NOW came Faraday and Coy to challenge this established notion by proving that lightning was electrical discharge in the sky. They even simulated it with high voltage discharges in air. Calculations were done to correlate the voltage and breakdown voltage of air.

Result:
The earlier established notion is permanently overturned and now, the current established notion is that lightning is an electrical discharge.

kimco:

This is because the default stance of man is to not believe anything till it has been proven beyond HIS/HER reasonable doubt, aka his or her prior experience regarding the sphere of the claim(in this case, spirituality). And even that doesn't necessarily make it a fact. It must go through the establish standard of scientific testing otherwise it will forever remain a notion(because you cannot prove it)....which you have to spend eons trying to prove to the ones you have made the claim to.

Simply put: establish ur notion as fact then u can asks the doubters to prove you wrong. Not the other way round.

Not true for human beings because mas is not purely a logical creature. Man is emotional, logical, spiritual and relational.

Because of this, we don't expect a physical scientific proof of emotion, spirituality or relation.

What is scientifically logical in a soldier obeying an order that statistically could lead to his death?. How can one scientifically demonstrate love?
What is scientifically logical for a Christian to die for his faith.

No my friend, life is not LINEAR!

shadeyinka:

I can't bring hell to you but you can experience it if you want: when you die.
Your proof is time bound and you shall surely experience hell (if you do not repent).

This guy...
Your ignorance baffles me.
Have you died before?

shadeyinka:

Check your bible if you have one. The writing is at least 2000 years old making the information therein an established claim.
If you have an older counter- claim, then the bible is the challenging claim.

There's no length you won't go to support this bullcrap.
So you're using a book to validate the claims of its own content?
This guy, you're a clown.

Drop your bible aside... You said hell is a proven fact... Now give me external verified sources that supports this claim. Clown.

shadeyinka:

That's okay!


Agreed!


No sir!
The burden of proof still rest with the challenger.

Let me give an example:
Established Notion:
It was long thought that lightning and the accompanying thunder is as a result of Tor smashing his hammer on the anvil.
1. It was a belief
2. It was not a fact
3. It was an established notion
Challenging Claim:
Lightning is a natural phenomenon

NOW came Faraday and Coy to challenge this established notion by proving that lightning was electrical discharge in the sky. They even simulated it with high voltage discharges in air.

Clown.
You and your poor logic.
Lightening is visible and we can all see it. So if someone says it's a result of Thor's hammer, one can make research and easily disprove such claims since lightning can be seen, felt or proven to exist.

Now, how do you disprove something that has never been seen, felt or proven?
How can you prove the existence of hell?
Has it been seen, felt or proven to exist?

Let me help your brain a little bit.

If I say Thor is responsible for rain that falls from the sky, that can be challenged.

But if I say Thor is responsible for Unicorns falling from the sky, how do you expect it to be challenged, when I haven't even proven that Unicorns exists?

kingxsamz:


Clown.
You and your poor logic.
Lightening is visible and we can all see it. So if someone says it's a result of Thor's hammer, one can make research and easily disprove such claims since lightning can be seen, felt or proven to exist.

Now, how do you disprove something that has never been seen, felt or proven?
How can you prove the existence of hell?
Has it been seen, felt or proven to exist?

Let me help your brain a little bit.

If I say Thor is responsible for rain that falls from the sky, that can be challenged.

But if I say Thor is responsible for Unicorns falling from the sky, how do you expect it to be challenged, when I haven't even proven that Unicorns exists?

Permit me to use the your argument against you and see how logical you sound.

First part:
You and your poor logic.
Creation Lightening is visible and we can all see it. So if someone says it's a result of God's creation Thor's hammer , one can make research and easily disprove such claims since creation lightning can be seen, felt or proven to exist.

Do you agree to the above?
If you disagree, then your earlier post is an error.
If you agree, it means you can actually be required to prove or disprove the existence of God. Burden of proof is on the challenger of an established notion.


Second part:
If I say God Thor is responsible for creation rain that falls from the sky, that can be challenged.

Do you agree to the above?

If you disagree, then your earlier post is an error.
If you agree, it means you can actually be required to prove or disprove the existence of God as creator.

Burden of proof is still on the challenger of an established notion.


Third Part:
But if I say God Thor is responsible for Hell Fire Unicorns falling from the sky, how do you expect it to be challenged, when I haven't even proven that Hell Fire Unicorns exists?



This could mean that
1. Hell doesn't exist
OR
2. There is no objective means of proving that Hell exists.

By the way, a Unicorn is supposed to be a physical being.( A horse with a horn and wings, so theoretically, it can be proved objectively).

If there is no objective scientific proof, why insist theists MUST find one.
The best a scientist could do in this regard is not to take a gnostic position but say "WE DO NOT KNOW"!

The subject of God is beyond the jurisdiction of Science!

For God isn't matter and science deal with matter in relation to energy

kingxsamz:



There's no length you won't go to support this bullcrap.
So noyou're using a book to validate the claims of its own content?
This guy, you're a clown.

Drop your bible aside... You said hell is a proven fact... Now give me external verified sources that supports this claim. Clown.

How do you know that Alexander the Great exist?
How do you know that Caesar Augustus exist?
From chemical or biological experiments!?

If I wrote or I'm related to any of the writers of the bible, then you have a point. If you reject the claim of the bible, you have become the challenger and the burden of proof shifts to you.

kingxsamz:



This guy...
Your ignorance baffles me.
Have you died before?

At death, you have your full unadulterated proof.
If you want your proof today, it's easy: go hang yourself at least you have nothing to loose. LOL!

kingxsamz:


What?
It's a simple question.
Are you saying God who created Satan can't kill him?
It's a YES or NO.
Answer.

What if he's Satan himself? His traits in the Bible surely look satanic.

How else can one describe an entity that has killed millions of people, destroyed different civilizations, endorses war, genocide, and slavery, but he's still proud of all these extremely atrocious acts?

One word describes Yahweh perfectly: satanic.

kingxsamz:


What?
It's a simple question.
Are you saying God who created Satan can't kill him?
It's a YES or NO.
Answer.

First of all their are spiritual lawes. Everyone obey these law.

The spirit realm controls the physical realm

shadeyinka:

At death, you have your full unadulterated proof.
If you want your proof today, it's easy: go hang yourself at least you have nothing to loose. LOL!

Have you died before?
it's a simple question.
Yes or No.

shadeyinka:

Permit me to use the your argument against you and see how logical you sound.

First part:
You and your poor logic.
Creation Lightening is visible and we can all see it. So if someone says it's a result of God's creation Thor's hammer , one can make research and easily disprove such claims since creation lightning can be seen, felt or proven to exist.

How can you substitute creation with lightening?
Who's talking about creation.
You always love to divert.
Nawa... Your case is more like teaching a child who's unable understand after several explanations.

shadeyinka:


Second part:
If I say God Thor is responsible for creation rain that falls from the sky, that can be challenged.

How did you jump from existence to creation?
Clown.
My initial statement was, if one claims that lightening(which exists) was caused by Thor(non existent), then that can be disproved. Why?
Because lightening exists, and therefore can be studied in order to know what causes it.

Now, if you claim that hell exists, what research can you put together to study it?
In what way can you prove it?

You would have to tell me how it exists first. What are its characteristics? How does it lool like? What are the elements which makes it what it is? What form of research (new or old) can you present to show that this hell was discovered?

[quote author=shadeyinka post=89950478][/quote]

If you tell someone who has never heard about hell before that hell is real. And then he asks you to prove it, how are you going to prove it?
I'm waiting.
Picture me as this person who wants proof of your claim.

Answer.

kingxsamz:


If you tell someone who has never heard about hell before that hell is real. And then he asks you to prove it, how are you going to prove it?
I'm waiting.
Picture me as this person who wants proof of your claim.

Answer.

You can't prove that he'll exists: it's impossible because he'll isn't a physical location in space.
The prerequisite to understanding if hell exist is the knowledge of God's existence.

So, if you (believe in God) and want a justification for hell, you'll have to juxtapose the statement of the scripture WITH the nature of God(if you believe God exists).
1. Believe in God make you know that life exist after death.
2. If God is just, he must punish evil and reward goodness.
3. There is no escaping from the consequence of each person's actions good or bad.

If you reject the idea of God's existence, you are beyond help for nothing except taking you to the literal hell will be a sufficient proof. And that you'll get when and after you die.

kingxsamz:


How did you jump from existence to creation?
Clown.
My initial statement was, if one claims that lightening(which exists) was caused by Thor(non existent), then that can be disproved. Why?
Because lightening exists, and therefore can be studied in order to know what causes it.

Now, if you claim that hell exists, what research can you put together to study it?
In what way can you prove it?

You would have to tell me how it exists first. What are its characteristics? How does it lool like? What are the elements which makes it what it is? What form of research (new or old) can you present to show that this hell was discovered?

It seems you find it difficult to follow simple parallel logic. Note that I didn't change your narrative
1. Tor (non existent) makes rain to fall on the earth (action)
2. God (non existent) created the universe (action)
3. Rain (visible)
Creation (visible)
It's your comprehension that needs re-evaluation!

kingxsamz:


How can you substitute creation with lightening?
Who's talking about creation.
You always love to divert.
Nawa... Your case is more like teaching a child who's unable understand after several explanations.

Simple questions!
1. What is Your known for in mythology?
2. What is God known for in mythology?

So, who is unable to comprehend after several explanations.
Better go to the previous post and reread!

kingxsamz:


Have you died before?
it's a simple question.
Yes or No.

Didn't I tell you the proof is time determined. When YOU die, you will experience it. That's the proof you want.

For me, don't worry because I don't need to prove anything because I know God exist. It's you who has a problem of proof not me?

Now, will you now go through the post again with understanding

kingxsamz:


Clown.
You and your poor logic.
Lightening is visible and we can all see it. So if someone says it's a result of Thor's hammer, one can make research and easily disprove such claims since lightning can be seen, felt or proven to exist.

Now, how do you disprove something that has never been seen, felt or proven?
How can you prove the existence of hell?
Has it been seen, felt or proven to exist?

Let me help your brain a little bit.

If I say Thor is responsible for rain that falls from the sky, that can be challenged.

But if I say Thor is responsible for Unicorns falling from the sky, how do you expect it to be challenged, when I haven't even proven that Unicorns exists?

Permit me to use the your argument against you and see how logical you sound.

First part:
You and your poor logic.
Creation Lightening is visible and we can all see it. So if someone says it's a result of God's creation Thor's hammer , one can make research and easily disprove such claims since creation lightning can be seen, felt or proven to exist.

Do you agree to the above?
If you disagree, then your earlier post is an error.
If you agree, it means you can actually be required to prove or disprove the existence of God. Burden of proof is on the challenger of an established notion.


Second part:
If I say God Thor is responsible for creation rain that falls from the sky, that can be challenged.

Do you agree to the above?

If you disagree, then your earlier post is an error.
If you agree, it means you can actually be required to prove or disprove the existence of God as creator.

Burden of proof is still on the challenger of an established notion.


Third Part:
But if I say God Thor is responsible for Hell Fire Unicorns falling from the sky, how do you expect it to be challenged, when I haven't even proven that Hell Fire Unicorns exists?



This could mean that
1. Hell doesn't exist
OR
2. There is no objective means of proving that Hell exists.

By the way, a Unicorn is supposed to be a physical being.( A horse with a horn and wings, so theoretically, it can be proved objectively).

If there is no objective scientific proof, why insist theists MUST find one.
The best a scientist could do in this regard is not to take a gnostic position but say "WE DO NOT KNOW"!

The subject of God is beyond the jurisdiction of Science!

For God isn't matter and science deal with matter in relation to energy

shadeyinka:

I can't prove that hell exists : it's impossible because hell isn't a physical location in space.

Good.
All other things you wrote are gibberish.
This is what you should have said at first, instead of asking me to disprove what you can't prove.
Goodnight.

kingxsamz:


Good.
All other things you wrote are gibberish.
This is what you should have said at first, instead of asking me to disprove what you can't prove.
Goodnight.

If you have read with understanding, you'll have discovered that it is from your anus the fart is smelling.

You were the one insisting on me giving you a scientific proof for a spiritual location called hell.

Goodnight!

The last re-post of mine before this has clearly showed the faulty reasoning behind your claims! That's why you couldn't respond logically. Don't forget that I gave you the implications of all your possible answers and none favours you.

Goodnight again!!

shadeyinka:

If you have read with understanding, you'll have discovered that it is from your anus the fart is smelling.

You were the one insisting on me giving you a scientific proof for a spiritual location called hell.

Goodnight!

The last re-post of mine before this has clearly showed the faulty reasoning behind your claims! That's why you couldn't respond logically. Don't forget that I gave you the implications of all your possible answers and none favours you.

Goodnight again!!

shadeyinka:

I can't prove that hell exists : it's impossible because hell isn't a physical location in space.

Lol, oga, when you have proof, quote me.
For now you're a clown.
Goodnight to you too.

kingxsamz:




Lol, oga, when you have proof, quote me.
For now you're a clown.
Goodnight to you too.

I wonder who is more clownish:
The one who says electron has mass and the one who demands to know the mass with his spring balance!
If you can decode this, you become free!
Goodnight!!

Faithful4real:


First of all their are spiritual lawes. Everyone obey these law.

The spirit realm controls the physical realm

The spirit realm consist of our ancestors,when we die we go join them..

When the living run into problem,we go to them...not to Jesus.

Let's stop talking ....about a god our ancestors never knew...

Watch lion King and black panther again..they are reminding of who you are..

sonmvayina:


The spirit realm consist of our ancestors,when we die we go join them..

When the living run into problem,we go to them...not to Jesus.

Let's stop talking ....about a god our ancestors never knew...

Watch lion King and black panther again..they are reminding of who you are..

Ha, have your ancestors ever come to your aid before?

Faithful4real:


Ha, have your ancestors ever come to your aid before?

I am not lost...I am one with them...

sonmvayina:


I am not lost...I am one with them...

Just answer the question. Have you called their name before and they come to your aid