Blabbermouth:

Humans and their funny thinking..
What the hell is "destiny"?
Perhaps you should read any version of the bible and see God using the word " IF" and not "after" or "when"...
And God said - "IF you will walk in my ways, to keep my commandments, as your father David did, THEN I will lengthen your days"

And God said - "This day have I set before you Life and Death. Choose life that you may live....."

God in all his might would never choose for man. The price for your salvation has been paid for long ago, howbeit, you will have to, by your free will, accept such glorious and wonderful gift.

Consider the people of Nineveh
... God sent Jonah to cry against the city, that for their wickedness, the city will be overthrown..
Nineveh knew enough the character of the Lord God, they didn't start packing from the city seeking asylum in other cities. They knew they could appeal to the merciful dimension of this supreme God.
Immediately, they repented, from the king even down to the slaves.
See what happened afterwards
Jonah 3:10 - "And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil ways; and God repented of the evil, that he said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."
IF Nineveh had not/did not repent, God would have destroyed every living man in the city.
Nineveh however did repent, and God didn't destroy anything...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Of course I don't give a fvch about destiny. I do my things my way. I asked because Christian believe in it. If I may ask, which sect do you belong to. The last time I heard a similar view, it was from a jehovah witness fellow.

Blabbermouth:

Xmuslim, this one is actually for you. Please read it and tell me what you think.

orchestrating/planning events before it happens is the summary of what you wrote.

You concluded that God have the ability to plan events that will happen and his plan can't be altered unlike human plan. Did I get you right?

Xmuslim:


Of course I don't give a fvch about destiny. I do my things my way. I asked because Christian believe in it. If I may ask, which sect do you belong to. The last time I heard a similar view, it was from a jehovah witness fellow.

I'm a Christian. I don't belong to any sect. I don't belong to any denomination. I follow Christ and I serve the living God.

Xmuslim:


orchestrating/planning events before it happens is the summary of what you wrote.

You concluded that God have the ability to plan events that will happen and his plan can't be altered unlike human plan. Did I get you right?

The last statement is subjective..
See this...
God's plan was for Eli and his generation to forever be priests. Sadly, Eli (actually, his sons) bleeped up and God reversed his promise..
So here you see a being with free will altering what God planned...
However, do you know God could still have had it his way?
1. He could take the sons of Eli and permit the other ones that come out of his loins to carry on with his promise
2. He could have just forgiven Eli
3. He could slay just one of the sons, and use that as a warning so that the other son could correct his ways...
And many more options...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So that depends on situations.

Blabbermouth:

The last statement is subjective..
See this...
God's plan was for Eli and his generation to forever be priests. Sadly, Eli (actually, his sons) bleeped up and God reversed his promise..
So here you see a being with free will altering what God planned...
However, do you know God could still have had it his way?
1. He could take the sons of Eli and permit the other ones that come out of his loins to carry on with his promise
2. He could have just forgiven Eli
3. He could slay just one of the sons, and use that as a warning so that the other son could correct his ways...
And many more options...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So that depends on situations.

Well, I don't quite get your conclusion about God's plan. You ealier said (in the analogy of telephone etc) that God's plan cannot change (if he's concluded on such matter) unlike human plan that can change.

But now you said even God's plan can change.

That aside, since it is possible for God to just forgive in your scenario or kill the son so that his original (good) plan could be manifested. Why did he go for other options that doesn't favour his creation.

A good God would have gone for the option that is favourable to his creation. Or is God not good?

Blabbermouth:


Unlike you, God will/cannot lose control. Unlike you, them no born the phone well make e say e no go off, if that supreme being command it to off.

(When God does things in this manner, humans not being able to comprehend what he did will quickly conclude he went to watch the movie called "the future" and was now narrating it to us.

Now, you are getting to know this supreme being more...

Here in your analogy, God's plan must go the way he planned because of his superior power. Nothing can impede his plan according to this analogy.

Blabbermouth:


Unlike you, God will/cannot lose control. Unlike you, them no born the phone well make e say e no go off, if that supreme being command it to off.



Now, you are getting to know this supreme being more...

Why can't that supreme being command devil to die since he realised he may mislead human (like he misled Adam and eve)? A good parent would stop anything that could harm his child from getting near the child.

Xmuslim:


Well, I don't quite get your conclusion about God's plan. You ealier said (in the analogy of telephone etc) that God's plan cannot change (if he's concluded on such matter) unlike human plan that can change.

But now you said even God's plan can change.

That aside, since it is possible for God to just forgive in your scenario or kill the son so that his original (good) plan could be manifested. Why did he go for other options that doesn't favour his creation.

A good God would have gone for the option that is favourable to his creation. Or is God not good?

There are many other things about God you need to understand so that the subjective situations that can make God reverse his plans will make perfect sense to you. Howbeit for now, as long as you understand that reversing such plan grandly depends on him and subtly depends on man himself, we can work with that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Or is God not good?" -asked Xmuslim
Please you will have to Tell me what "being good" means to you.
Also, how are you able to split between good and bad?

Xmuslim:

Why can't that supreme being command devil to die since he realised he may mislead human (like he misled Adam and eve)? A good parent would stop anything that could harm his child from getting near the child.

Why shouldn't that same being destroy Adam, Devil and his angels/jinns, and Eve and then start with better creations?
If only you understood why everything is the way they are, you would have gone down on your knees, awed by the Wisdom in which everything is wrapped in.

There is a grand plan that I would have narrated if you were a Christian.
There, you would have gotten answer to questions like
1. Why Didn't God immediately kill Devil and his angels?
2. Why didn't God just throw man away and start with a better creation?
3. How will God be able to stop the same thing that happened through Satan after all is said and done? Or How will God cancel the possibility of sin rearing its ugly head in the new era?
A Hint for the question you asked
A just judge will not sentence a suspect or convict until he has been trialed, tried and found guilty.
Satan did rebel, sure! Why did he rebel? Perhaps, he was actually right and was on his right? Have you heard satan's side of the story? C'mon this same Satan was able to drag 1/3 of the angels to his side, how come?
There is just so so so much to know about this God and His grand plan.. Hahahahahahaha

Blabbermouth:

Why shouldn't that same being destroy Adam, Devil and his angels/jinns, and Eve and then start with better creations?
If only you understood why everything is the way they are, you would have gone down on your knees, awed by the Wisdom in which everything is wrapped in.

There is a grand plan that I would have narrated if you were a Christian.
There, you would have gotten answer to questions like
1. Why Didn't God immediately kill Devil and his angels?
2. Why didn't God just throw man away and start with a better creation?
3. How will God be able to stop the same thing that happened through Satan after all is said and done? Or How will God cancel the possibility of sin rearing its ugly head in the new era?
A Hint for the question you asked
A just judge will not sentence a suspect or convict until he has been trialed, tried and found guilty.
Satan did rebel, sure! Why did he rebel? Perhaps, he was actually right and was on his right? Have you heard satan's side of the story? C'mon this same Satan was able to drag 1/3 of the angels to his side, how come?
There is just so so so much to know about this God and His grand plan.. Hahahahahahaha

thanks a lot for your time.

I know you are also in darkness about many things about the god you are defending. You are only trying to justify your religion because you think the religion is the way to eternal happiness (you may be wrong though).

Like I use to say, if there is a God, we know little about him and if he's not a loving God, we are all in trouble. I hope, we'll be able to overthrown him if he exist. I think human can do better if appointed as God .

Blabbermouth:

There are many other things about God you need to understand so that the subjective situations that can make God reverse his plans will make perfect sense to you. Howbeit for now, as long as you understand that reversing such plan grandly depends on him and subtly depends on man himself, we can work with that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Or is God not good?" -asked Xmuslim
Please you will have to Tell me what "being good" means to you.
Also, how are you able to split between good and bad?

We all know what is good and what's bad. Or what would you term eternity in hell fire? Good?

Xmuslim:


We all know what is good and what's bad. Or what would you term eternity in hell fire? Good?

Having sex with a woman who is not your wife. Is it good or bad?

HushBingo is guilty of frauding American citizens. Some of his victims died of heart attack, high blood pressure and some died of depression. The judge presiding over God's case sentenced HushBingo to a 20 year imprisonment.
Is the Judge Just or Not? Is such a judge a good judge or a bad judge?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So many things need to be put aright. The kind of God you have heard about has made it look like He actually does not exist..
Beloved, it is true that there is that Fatherly dimension of him. But you see, this same entity is A King, A Lord, and most importantly in this case, A JUDGE.
You were quick to ask why God did not kill Satan immediately. I should have accused you of being wicked, unjust and terrible for wanting God to kill a spirit just because he actually wanted something that he ought not to crave.

Xmuslim:
thanks a lot for your time.

I know you are also in darkness about many things about the god you are defending. You are only trying to justify your religion because you think the religion is the way to eternal happiness (you may be wrong though).

Like I use to say, if there is a God, we know little about him and if he's not a loving God, we are all in trouble. I hope, we'll be able to overthrown him if he exist. I think human can do better if appointed as God .

Be not hasty to jump into conclusions...
Like you, I was born a Muslim. Many years later, I became a part-time agnostic.
But you see, there is a point where you get (technically, it 's like you are walking on water), where logic will fail you. Your so called reasoning will divorce you. What seems plausible will not make sense anymore.
All that will remain will be Faith. Taking that leap, you will begin your journey.
1. Imagine someone telling you all that had happened in your past, very accurate and even your deepest secrets. You've never met him before nor have you ever talked to him.
That shit up there happened to me!
None of my logic could help me, no reasoning could, not even that "I don't have any idea" last resort.
2. You've had this pain that has made you bedridden for weeks. You were literally crying for death to come and not torment you any longer. Hospital reports says your spinal cord has also been damaged. With just a touch and the mention of a name, that stinging pain was gone (as though it never was there in the first place)
This shit happened for real!
It's funny when someone assume I follow Christ because I'm scared of hell or because I was born into it.
Hahahahahahaha... I took that leap and never have I regretted taking it. I get to know the lord more and more everyday...
The day I knew the truth about this future and free will issue, I was just awed with the wisdom of this entity. When I knew what his grand plan was, trust me, no one can prove it to me that God is actually not love.
Like other agnostic, you are scared. But I trust the Lord, soon you will have an encounter with him, try hold on to logic and your human reasoning, and see how they will all fail you.

Blabbermouth:

Be not hasty to jump into conclusions...
Like you, I was born a Muslim. Many years later, I became a part-time agnostic.

I'm not 100% certain on anything anymore ever since I left Islam because I was so sure of Islam before contrary evidence surfaced.

Regarding the miracle you mentioned. Even if they occur, it does not prove that Christian God is kind and love. But let's skip that for now

javaRookie:



Great!! I like this analogy you presented. That was just all I wanted to hear.
You know most of the times we Christians are raised not to ask questions even when there are some lapses.
There are so many things that needs a perfect explanation concerning the Bible and its doctrines. But due to the fact that we all stand by this "Don't question God" thingy some of these questions go unanswered and thereby creating confusion to some rational Christians.

Someone up there while trying to proffer a suitable answer said God doesn't know the future, what's your take on that?

There are no lapses in bible doctrines. There are only imperfect knowledge and understanding of scriptural truths. As per scriptures, we are allowed to ask questions and seek understanding of truths presented as scriptures.

Volition MUST be given freedom to play if it is real. The only problem is that there are consequences for both actions and inactions God gave all spirit beings including humans the gift of volition for SELECTION

If God doesn't know the future, how can he be the creator of time?
Time is meaningless in the spirit realm. Time is only useful as a measure of interval between two physical events.
What is prophecy?: It is when a man is given a sneak preview of the future by God.
Jer 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.
1 Peter 1:20
He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
Isaiah 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’
The scriptures above show that God knows the future

The whole book of Revelation is about the FUTURE of this world and of good and evil

shadeyinka:


"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.

Since God knows the future, that means he know those who will get deceived by the Devil and consequently go to hell?
Means he has everything all scripted out.
This in turn defeats the freedom of selection you stated above.
Why? Because he knows you will go to hell. He has got these things wrapped round his fingers, we are just the puppet then.

Xmuslim:


I'm not 100% certain on anything anymore ever since I left Islam because I was so sure of Islam before contrary evidence surfaced.

Regarding the miracle you mentioned. Even if they occur, it does not prove that Christian God is kind and love. But let's skip that for now

Do you know why I asked you for your definition of "good"?
Despite how similar it may be, my definition of " good" will surely be different from yours.
God himself made a shocking statement (So sad I can't remember the verse), it was about HIS LOVE.
I tell you, there are some you will observe and say - "How is this one love?"
The truth is, His own perception of love, even if it is similar to ours, is at the same time different (or say, Godly)
Isaiah 55
"My ways are not your ways, so are my thoughts not your thoughts. As the heaven is far above the earth, so is my ways and my thoughts far above yours" -God himself!
So trying to darken counsel with words is very much unwise.
I created a robot and made it to know what "beautiful and ugly" is. Then I said, hey look, this is beautiful!... The robot however said, no its not. I should ask the robot, who enlightened you and gave you the revelation of "Beautiful and Ugliness"..
Over and over and over and over and over again, God many times had taken his time to make Men (and even some angels!) see of a truth that what he did was Just, that what he did was Right, that what he did was spurned from love. And yes! Men after being reenlightened had no choice but to concur and worship.
This God is actually not tasked with the responsibility of proving himself, but many times you see, he does so that all be fulfilled.
Modified:
Listen to this parable
A man (let's call him a prophet) had the privilege to see God shower his wrath on a city. The city had done so so so great evil in the sight of God and after many many warnings, God decided to treat their Bleep up. He wiped out every man and woman in the city. Howbeit, he didn't stop there, his wrath also descended on the infants in the city, he wiped them all for good.
The prophet understood why God wiped the city, he agreed with God cleaning up the adult male as well as the adult female. However he was puzzled, why did God have to descend his wrath on the innocent infant kids and take their life? He kept pondering and pondering and decided to ask God himself. He made his petition to know why, as to him, killing innocent infants was unjust. "Thou art a just God, why did you then wipe the innocent kids along with their evil parents?"-He cried.
At night, the prophet laid on his bed to sleep but it was as if the winds have been stopped. After trying to cope for some time, he concluded that he will just go and sleep outside. He took his mat outside, laid it and slept on it peacefully. During that sweet sleep, he felt a sharp sting on the nape of his neck. With the speed of lightening, he crushed the ant and continued sleeping. Before he could drift back into his sweet dream, two more ants gave him a very sharp sting. He killed them likewise. This time the sleep was no longer enticing and he was more concerned about the ants. Before he could say Jack, he felt 3 more stings. Now very alert, he stood from his mat and tried to see the bastards disturbing his sleep. He realized that there was a small colony of soldier ants just under his mat. Immediately, he used his feet and a broom to kill those tiny creatures. Then he laid his mat on a new position (of course, he did confirm that there are no more ants) and ventured to continue his sleep. Then God asked him - "Just 6 ants bite you, how many did you kill? He said, I killed them all. God said - 94 ants did you no harm yet you killed them along with the guilty 6, justify yourself. Then the prophet said - all the ants are of the same specie. If I do not kill the remaining 94, it is natural that they bite me and never let me sleep. So knowing that they are of the same intent, I killed them all" .... Immediately, the prophet then realized why God asked him the question. It was the exact question he asked God, and the Lord hath made he himself to answer his question. Then he concluded - truly, thou art a just God!

Xmuslim, everything is plain but different speculation here and there has made it look like its complicated...
What you call "LOVE" or "GOOD" is very very subjective.
There are a rare set of humans that treasure the life of animals. They eat fruit, veggies, water and the likes but not flesh.
To them, killing animals just because you want to fill your tummy is very selfish, evil and inhuman. To you, it's perfectly normal (as per say you have an automatic authority to point and kill any animal you want).
Can you see that what you call "good" is subjective even with the fact that you are human and they are also human.
Let us now broaden the scope....
What angels, or jinns call "Love" or "good" is/will be far different from what we humans see as love and good. They don't have this emotional bla bla bla, feelings, and the likes. So don't expect them to understand that sleeping with a woman is an act of love (smiles.. they might believe you are doing yoga)
What God will call love and good will also be different from what angels and man see as love. While you look at something and say, this is Good. God looks at it and say, c'mon this is not good.
The variance goes on and on (we can even start to consider other animals)...
I find it funny that man wants God to develop feelings, fall in love, crush and do shits like that. All these ones do not exist in his own dimension and being.
So you see how love and "good" is influenced and subjected to the being we are actually trying to consider.
Jesus (human version) was much much talking and relating things like a typical human. The words he said were so so so filled with the essence of love (from A-Z).. Jesus (divine version) in the book of revelation, was talking with a very much changed tone. There was a sharp contrast in the essence of his words. It was exactly the way God talks in the old testament. Yet, He still is love. Just that it has now metamorphosed from a humanly love to a godly love.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Blabbermouth:
Xmuslim, everything is plain but different speculation here and there has made it look like its complicated...
What you call "LOVE" or "GOOD" is very very subjective.
There are a rare set of humans that treasure the life of animals. They eat fruit, veggies, water and the likes but not flesh.
To them, killing animals just because you want to fill your tummy is very selfish, evil and inhuman. To you, it's perfectly normal (as per say you have an automatic authority to point and kill any animal you want).
Can you see that what you call "good" is subjective even with the fact that you are human and they are also human.

no. I know it is evil even if I do it. I'll graduate to vegetarian one day too

Blabbermouth I know where you are going with your definition of good. If God cannot understand that killing children hurt the parents, he's limited. Don't compare human and robot relationship. Humans are limited. God should understand everything that human feel. He should know what constitute good and evil to human.

Also, you said God was just for not killing satan. Why did God kill many human according to the bible. What of Noah flood? Obviously God was trying to stop human from offending him. If he had killed satan, there won't be a need to kill as much human.

Xmuslim, this is for you
Listen to this parable

A man (let's call him a prophet) had the privilege to see God shower his wrath on a city. The city had done so so so great evil in the sight of God and after many many warnings, God decided to treat their Bleep up. He wiped out every man and woman in the city. Howbeit, he didn't stop there, his wrath also descended on the infants in the city, he wiped them all for good.

The prophet understood why God wiped the city, he agreed with God cleaning up the adult male as well as the adult female. However he was puzzled, why did God have to descend his wrath on the innocent infant kids and take their life? He kept pondering and pondering and decided to ask God himself. He made his petition to know why, as to him, killing innocent infants was unjust. "Thou art a just God, why did you then wipe the innocent kids along with their evil parents?"-He cried.

At night, the prophet laid on his bed to sleep but it was as if the winds have been stopped. After trying to cope for some time, he concluded that he will just go and sleep outside. He took his mat outside, laid it and slept on it peacefully. During that sweet sleep, he felt a sharp sting on the nape of his neck. With the speed of lightening, he crushed the ant and continued sleeping. Before he could drift back into his sweet dream, two more ants gave him a very sharp sting. He killed them likewise. This time the sleep was no longer enticing and he was more concerned about the ants. Before he could say Jack, he felt 3 more stings. Now very alert, he stood from his mat and tried to see the bastards disturbing his sleep. He realized that there was a small colony of soldier ants just under his mat. Immediately, he used his feet and a broom to kill those tiny creatures. Then he laid his mat on a new position (of course, he did confirm that there are no more ants) and ventured to continue his sleep. Then God asked him - "Just 6 ants bite you, how many did you kill? He said, I killed them all. God said - 94 ants did you no harm yet you killed them along with the guilty 6, justify yourself. Then the prophet said - all the ants are of the same specie. If I do not kill the remaining 94, it is natural that they bite me and never let me sleep. So knowing that they are of the same intent, I killed them all" .... Immediately, the prophet then realized why God asked him the question. It was the exact question he asked God, and the Lord hath made he himself to answer his question. Then he concluded - truly, thou art a just God!

Xmuslim:
Blabbermouth I know where you are going with your definition of good. If God cannot understand that killing children hurt the parents, he's limited. Don't compare human and robot relationship. Humans are limited. God should understand everything that human feel. He should know what constitute good and evil to human.

Also, you said God was just for not killing satan. Why did God kill many human according to the bible. What of Noah flood? Obviously God was trying to stop human from offending him. If he had killed satan, there won't be a need to kill as much human.

Foremost, you will be surprised to know that many of those that perished in Noah's flood may not end up in hell. Some will actually make it to the new Jerusalem.
Hahahahahahaha... You need to know many many many things about this God.
Before I explain that, let me treat this from another angle...
1. You are very wicked, unloving and evil for wanting God to kill Satan. The humanly thing for you to ask for was that God should forgive him and let things just go back to the way they were.
Now sir, justify your stance that Satan should be killed.
2.Like I said, A convict can only be sentenced to prison after(not before!) he has been trialed, tried and found guilty of the charges against him.
Now, answer me, have God judged Satan? What is the Judgement day actually for? Is it not to judge?
3. You said God should understand everything Human feel. Hahahahahahaha, he calculated this before you ever thought of it. That is one reason (among many), why the person of Jesus came into the picture. Taste Jesus (technically, read of him) and you will see the personification, perfection and epitome of humanly love. In Christianity, we are actually looking unto Jesus and knowing the character and the express image of this God. If we try to assess him directly (what you are actually doing now), we will never find him. Hahahahahahaha
4. Why did God kill human being? Perhaps, the humans were well meaning and living right before God? When a judge sentences you to death by hanging, c'mon nobody calls that cruelty, it's called JUDGEMENT.. So don't try to shadow box it when God is actually the Judge in this case.
5.God should understand that kill children hurts the parents?
Yes, he does understand the same way you know that a cow/ram is not cool with having you placed a knife on its neck and murdering it in cold blood.
So what do you want him to do? Console the parents? Tell them he's sorry? Behave like cry baby (just like humans do)? Or should he not take the breath that initially belongs to him?
It's such a wonder that humans want a Superman as the Deity and Not a true God.
See, a fowl should cackle and behave just like a fowl
A dog should bark and behave just like a dog
A cat should meow and behave just like a cat
A man should behave like a man
And a God should behave and act like a God.
Each beings according to his nature. It's so selfish to stylishly say, "hey! Stop meting out judgement, stop taking back the breath that belongs to you, when we do what you do not permit just turn a blind eye, if we don't worship you just be looking at us, this is the kind of God we want"
Haba, humans!

Xmuslim:
no. I know it is evil even if I do it. I'll graduate to vegetarian one day too

You see, I'm an animatarian; I don't like it when anyone eat vegetables or fruits, it's pure wickedness and inhuman. Why will you hurt that tree? It was fending for itself trying to grow, trying to live a normal tree life, sadly, because you have power over it, you troubled it, took its fruit, and cuts it stem for your own selfish interest- it is very wicked and evil of you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
1. Can you now see that we will never have a perfect common ground on what LOVE or what GOOD is?
2. The same (silly) thing I'm trying to claim here is the same silly thing men try to claim with God. You don't give a fuxk how the animals feel when you slice their throat, how the trees feel when you cut their bark (c'mon you can see them start bleeding immediately), but you want God to feel the exact way you feel when he take your loved ones away. You want him to consider your tears and your weeping. Sorry o, God is not moved by those salty waters the same way you are not moved when you slice the throat of a fowl.
3. Who decreed the eating of animals to be evil?

javaRookie:


Since God knows the future, that means he know those who will get deceived by the Devil and consequently go to hell?
Means he has everything all scripted out.
This in turn defeats the freedom of selection you stated above.
Why? Because he knows you will go to hell. He has got these things wrapped round his fingers, we are just the puppet then.

Do you know the difference between Predestination and Foreknowledge?

It is in Gods nature to KNOW everything because God can see beyond the limitation of time. Do you think it is Justice to Punish a man for a Crime he has not yet Committed simply because somehow it was decided that he was going to commit the crime in future?
Does it make sense for you to be rewarded for something you are yet to do? Like it was decided that you were going to win the Nobel price for mathematics 45 years from now and they called you out to be rewarded: does it feel right?

Blabbermouth:

You see, I'm an animatarian; I don't like it when anyone eat vegetables or fruits, it's pure wickedness and inhuman. Why will you hurt that tree? It was fending for itself trying to grow, trying to live a normal tree life, sadly, because you have power over it, you troubled it, took its fruit, and cuts it stem for your own selfish interest- it is very wicked and evil of you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
1. Can you now see that we will never have a perfect common ground on what LOVE or what GOOD is?
2. The same (silly) thing I'm trying to claim here is the same silly thing men try to claim with God. You don't give a fuxk how the animals feel when you slice their throat, how the trees feel when you cut their bark (c'mon you can see them start bleeding immediately), but you want God to feel the exact way you feel when he take your loved ones away. You want him to consider your tears and your weeping. Sorry o, God is not moved by those salty waters the same way you are not moved when you slice the throat of a fowl.
3. Who decreed the eating of animals to be evil?

I knew you would come to this. Dr zakir naik even said that plant feels more pain than animals. Lol.

Well, you may want to blame God for not creating alternative food. I will blame evolution. We need food to survive and we eat what's available.

shadeyinka:

Do you know the difference between Predestination and Foreknowledge?

It is in Gods nature to KNOW everything because God can see beyond the limitation of time. Do you think it is Justice to Punish a man for a Crime he has not yet Committed simply because somehow it was decided that he was going to commit the crime in future?
Does it make sense for you to be rewarded for something you are yet to do? Like it was decided that you were going to win the Nobel price for mathematics 45 years from now and they called you out to be rewarded: does it feel right?

There is no "It" here it was God who decided that. To me I think God has predestined man and also has foreknowledge of what ever will happen to his creations. As said in Proverbs 20:24
24 A person’s steps are directed by the LORD. How then can anyone understand their own way?

Even in the book of Ecclesiastes it states that God knows whatever humanity is...
Whatever exists has already been named, and what humanity is has been known; no one can contend with someone who is stronger.

So he knows exactly people who would go to hell and people who would go to heaven. That in turn means that if you have been predestined to land in hell because you are not those he created for heaven, you are doomed!
It is all a Script then.

Isaiah 46:10

10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’

Since he can do as he pleases that means that he keeps on strengthening his foe(Devil) intentionally with his creations who he knows will go to hell. Then turn round to fight the same guy he keeps on building up his kingdom.

The teacher analogy doesn't hold here because a teacher who sets questions for his students knowing fully well that some students will fail woefully has failed in his job as a teacher.

Xmuslim:


I knew you would come to this. Dr zakir naik even said that plant feels more pain than animals. Lol.

Well, you may want to blame God for not creating alternative food. I will blame evolution. We need food to survive and we eat what's available.

Have you considered my other replies?
Smilesss... You should know that animatarian stuff was an analogy. I just wanted to point out that we can never have a common measure for what is good and bad or what is love and what is evil.
So God is love (Godly love), and many things he does might not seem to be love (humanly love) to you, but trust him, he is right, he has always been!
Zakir Naik? That Islamic scholar? Well I've never had the time or reason to listen to him. I hear he is good at pointing faults in Christianity, one day I will be available to listen to what he has to say.

Blabbermouth:

Have you considered my other replies?
Smilesss... You should know that animatarian stuff was an analogy. I just wanted to point out that we can never have a common measure for what is good and bad or what is love and what is evil.
So God is love (Godly love), and many things he does might not seem to be love (humanly love) to you, but trust him, he is right, he has always been!
Zakir Naik? That Islamic scholar? Well I've never had the time or reason to listen to him. I hear he is good at pointing faults in Christianity, one day I will be available to listen to what he has to say.

Have read all your posts. I can't reply cos of time. By the way, you didn't answer some of my questions

Is eternal hell justified?

Is killing satan immediately the better option, or killing thousands of people in the Bible,or perhaps forgive satan and avoid all these issues of continuation of sin.

It's expected that you will defend your religion, but some things are just crystal clear and one can't defend them without going against logic or bring a notion of God's way of perceiving goodness is different from ours

Once again, is eternal hell something expected from a good God?

javaRookie:


There is no "It" here it was God who decided that. To me I think God has predestined man and also has foreknowledge of what ever will happen to his creations. As said in Proverbs 20:24
24 A person’s steps are directed by the LORD. How then can anyone understand their own way?

Even in the book of Ecclesiastes it states that God knows whatever humanity is...
Whatever exists has already been named, and what humanity is has been known; no one can contend with someone who is stronger.

So he knows exactly people who would go to hell and people who would go to heaven. That in turn means that if you have been predestined to land in hell because you are not those he created for heaven, you are doomed!
It is all a Script then.

Isaiah 46:10

10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’

Since he can do as he pleases that means that he keeps on strengthening his foe(Devil) intentionally with his creations who he knows will go to hell. Then turn round to fight the same guy he keeps on building up his kingdom.

The teacher analogy doesn't hold here because a teacher who sets questions for his students knowing fully well that some students will fail woefully has failed in his job as a teacher.

Does this make any sense? In fact, if this were true, we should as well just stop deceiving ourselves. Where you will end up has already been determined by the heavenly council - it might as well be HELL, so stop deceiving yourself!
Hahahahahahaha... I was seriously joking.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Isaiah 46:10
(Your version)
"I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, 'My purpose will stand and I will do all that I please."
Isaiah 46:10
(Kjv version)
"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"
Please, with reference to that KJV version, replace the word "declaring" with the word "orchestrating"...
We will have
"Orchestrating the end from the beginning"
Let us go local - It's like saying, Hey, hey, hey, I will declare it that the sun will not come up on the 31st of December (even if we are still in 22nd of July), and just as I have said, it will happen.
Now is that the same as knowing the future?
No! Even humans can orchestrate and declare the end of small events (well, with the permissibility of God) right from the beginning.
It's because we don't have a foundation of what exist and what does not, that is why we are dabbling into the error of believing God knows the future.

Where did the idea that Satan is evil really comes from?.. I have read the Bible and some other ancient text.. I am yet to find any... All we have are some foolish claims made by the writers of the Jesus story..

javaRookie:


There is no "It" here it was God who decided that. To me I think God has predestined man and also has foreknowledge of what ever will happen to his creations. As said in Proverbs 20:24
24 A person’s steps are directed by the LORD. How then can anyone understand their own way?

Even in the book of Ecclesiastes it states that God knows whatever humanity is...
Whatever exists has already been named, and what humanity is has been known; no one can contend with someone who is stronger.

So he knows exactly people who would go to hell and people who would go to heaven. That in turn means that if you have been predestined to land in hell because you are not those he created for heaven, you are doomed!
It is all a Script then.

Isaiah 46:10

10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’

Since he can do as he pleases that means that he keeps on strengthening his foe(Devil) intentionally with his creations who he knows will go to hell. Then turn round to fight the same guy he keeps on building up his kingdom.

The teacher analogy doesn't hold here because a teacher who sets questions for his students knowing fully well that some students will fail woefully has failed in his job as a teacher.

Sorry, You are still mixing up Predestination with Foreknowledge.

So he knows exactly people who would go to hell and people who would go to heaven. That in turn means that if you have been predestined to land in hell because you are not those he created for heaven, you are doomed!

If God is JUST, why would he punish a creature for being exactly what He had pre-programmed them to be?
Rom 8:29-30
29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.…

Foreknowledge comes before Predestination.

Does it make sense for an engineer to destroy a motorcycle he created for not being able to fly in the air?
With due respect, you are clearly very wrong

The teacher analogy doesn't hold here because a teacher who sets questions for his students knowing fully well that some students will fail woefully has failed in his job as a teacher.

A Teachers job is at the point of Examination is to set up a SELECTION criteria through grading of his students. He could have arbiterarilly given ALL of them 100% but he wouldn't. Because at the end of the day, he sorts his students according to their performance (even if all his students scores above average). The best student in the class can thus be rewarded with an appropriate reward.

Blabbermouth:

When He said he created man in his own image, what do you think he meant?
(Howbeit, there is still a lot on this that you need to know)


According to you, what you did can be referred to as "orchestrating some series of events that will go on to constitute the future"....
How is this possible?
Answer: You had a free will and the capability to do such to anything you have perfect control (or say, authority) over. By controlling (or say, manipulating) things like (1) your phone (2) your shirt (3) yourself , you were able to orchestrate series of events that went on to constitute the future.
I'm glad you pointed out the possibility that your phone button might suddenly misbehave. So, the phone wouldn't have switched off just as you planned.
A case like this will only happen if you actually do not have TOTAL CONTROL over a thing or an event (as in the case of your phone, you never had the total control to make it power off)...

All you just did above, God can do it! However, in a far far far far far larger larger larger larger (× infinity) scale than you did yours.
Unlike you, God will/cannot lose control. Unlike you, them no born the phone well make e say e no go off, if that supreme being command it to off.

(When God does things in this manner, humans not being able to comprehend what he did will quickly conclude he went to watch the movie called "the future" and was now narrating it to us.

Now, you are getting to know this supreme being more...

I actually knew you would say this and that is why I stated in my response that your analogy should assume no difference between the supreme being and man in that context. Otherwise, there was nothing practical about the question anymore because regardless of my response, you'd still use the infallibility of the supreme being as a soft landing.

But it's fine. I will work with that. I assume he created the earth with the will of having a happy environment (this equivalent to the plan of switching off the phone in your analogy) and like you said, he is very much in total control of his plans so how come man sinned (something happened to the phone) and the whole plan went downhill (the phone refused to go off)? Did he lose control at some point?

Please, I'm only respectfully picking on your knowledge so you don't have to come up with any convenient theory just to sell the supreme being, as understood by man, as all mighty. I know no one knows it all.

etrange:


I actually knew you would say this and that is why I stated in my response that your analogy should assume no difference between the supreme being and man in that context. Otherwise, there was nothing practical about the question anymore because regardless of my response, you'd still use the infallibility of the supreme being as a soft landing.

But it's fine. I will work with that. I assume he created the earth with the will of having a happy environment (this equivalent to the plan of switching off the phone in your analogy) and like you said, he is very much in total control of his plans so how come man sinned (something happened to the phone) and the whole plan went downhill (the phone refused to go off)? Did he lose control at some point?

Please, I'm only respectfully picking on your knowledge so you don't have to come up with any convenient theory just to sell the supreme being, as understood by man, as all mighty. I know no one knows it all.

"I'm glad you pointed out the possibility that your phone button might suddenly misbehave. So, the phone wouldn't have switched off just as you planned.
A case like this will only happen if
1.You actually do not have TOTAL CONTROL over a thing or an event (as in the case of your phone, you never had the total control to make it power off)...
2. You permitted the thing to also orchestrate things (just like you), howbeit subtly - It's commonly called Free will

The supreme being Losing control? No! A little kid is sometimes allowed to touch the flames of a fire for once(the lesson therein is an unforgettable one),that's not the father being incapable or not in control of preventing the kid from getting hurt, is it?(Typical of case 2 as mentioned above)
Soft landing? Hahahahahahaha, I'm just using a language you understand (logical reasoning), I can as well convey it in many other ways.