sagenaija:

He runs!
When you guys can't engage in meaningful conversation you look for an escape route rather than admit that you have been beaten.
Cheers.

I think I've been able to point out as always your hypocrisy!

Meekha:


To be honest, these your wordy article did not answer the question posed. Rather you only opened windows for more questions for yourself

No, I think I brought similar verses of what you claimed chased you from Islam to Christianity from the Bible.

Now you can now embrace another religion if you're truthful in the beginning!

AntiChristian:


I think I've been able to point out as always your hypocrisy!

Which hypocrisy?
Where is there a directive or command for Christians to kill apostates or do any of those things listed in the koran?

sagenaija:

Which hypocrisy?
Where is there a directive or command for Christians to kill apostates or do any of those things listed in the koran?

There can't be any direct command for Christians to kill na! Was Christian/Christianity created or mentioned by Yahweh?

But I'm sure Yahweh did order people to be killed. Many people including children, women, men even helpless and harmless people.

AntiChristian:



But I'm sure Yahweh did order people to be killed. Many people including children, women, men even helpless and harmless people.

Allah the immoral god was not fair to women and children.

"Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way."
(QS. An-Nisaa 4: Verse 15)

Here we are told that women should be confined to the house until they are dead, torture by starvation as commanded by Allah that values women right.

The same Allah allows Wife beating in Islam:
"Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.
Sunan Abu Dawud 11:2142

"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."
-Quran 4:34

Yahweh or Jesus never said a man should beat his wife.

Muhammad, Allah's apostle and the best interpreter of the Quran allowed killing of children and women


"It is narrated by Sa'b b. Jaththama that he said (to the Holy Prophet): Messenger of Allah, we kill the children of the polytheists during the night raids. He said: They are from them."
-Sahih Muslim 19:4322


"Narrated As-Sab bin Jaththama: The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." I also heard the Prophet saying, "The institution of Hima is invalid except for Allah and His Apostle."
-Sahih Bukhari 4:52:256

"Sa'b b. Jaththama has narrated that the Prophet (may peace be upon him) asked: What about the children of polytheists killed by the cavalry during the night raid? He said: They are from them."
-Sahih Muslim 19:4323

Allah has said he's the one inspiring Muhammad, so we can't separate Muhammad's actions from Allah.

"Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred,"
(QS. An-Najm 53: Verse 2)

"Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination."
(QS. An-Najm 53: Verse 3)

"Say, Obey Allah and the Messenger. But if they turn away - then indeed, Allah does not like the disbelievers."
(QS. Aal-i-Imraan 3: Verse 32)

Allah is a killer:

"And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 191)

"They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper."
(QS. An-Nisaa 4: Verse 89)


"You will find others who wish to obtain security from you and [to] obtain security from their people. Every time they are returned to [the influence of] disbelief, they fall back into it. So if they do not withdraw from you or offer you peace or restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you overtake them. And those - We have made for you against them a clear authorization."
(QS. An-Nisaa 4: Verse 91)

Allah said he was a killer:

"And you did not kill them, but it was Allah who killed them. And you threw not, [O Muhammad], when you threw, but it was Allah who threw that He might test the believers with a good test. Indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing."
(QS. Al-Anfaal 8: Verse 17)


"And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."
(QS. At-Tawba 9: Verse 5)

Allah is the father of terrorism, he's the one Boko Haram are following in beheading their captives

"[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."
(QS. Al-Anfaal 8: Verse 12)

Allah even shared in the spoils of war and gather it for himself.


"They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the bounties [of war]. Say, The bounties is for Allah and the Messenger. So fear Allah and amend that which is between you and obey Allah and His Messenger, if you should be believers."
(QS. Al-Anfaal 8: Verse 1)

motayoayinde:



AS FOR YOUR QUESTION ON APOSTACY, FRANKLY IT'S NOT STATED IN THE QUR'AN. HOWEVER, SINCE IT'S IN THE HADITH, IT BECOMES LAW.

"They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper."
(QS. An-Nisaa 4: Verse 89)

AntiChristian:


No, I think I brought similar verses of what you claimed chased you from Islam to Christianity from the Bible.

Now you can now embrace another religion if you're truthful in the beginning!

I am a Christian and not a Jew. I follow the teachings and commands of Jesus and not everything captured in the Old Testament because some of the laws were not originally made for people. Jesus came and revealed the true intentions of God.

Muhammad came and dragged us back to the law of an eye for an eye and laws of apostasy.

As at the moment, I don't know of any Christian secret that encourages that wicked and inhumane act. You know any?? Tell me pls.

*

advocatejare:


"They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper."
(QS. An-Nisaa 4: Verse 89)

THIS VERSE TALKS ABOUT MAKKAN IDOLATORS WHO WAGE WAR AGAINST ISLAM.

IT SAYS THE ONLY WAY THEY WON'T BE ATTACKED IN RETURN IS IF THEY MIGRATE TO MADINAH.

THE QUR'AN SAYS THERE'S NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION. Q 2verse 256

256. Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

motayoayinde:


THIS VERSE TALKS ABOUT MAKKAN IDOLATORS WHO WAGE WAR AGAINST ISLAM.

IT SAYS THE ONLY WAY THEY WON'T BE ATTACKED IN RETURN IS IF THEY MIGRATE TO MADINAH.

THE QUR'AN SAYS THERE'S NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION. Q 2verse 256

256. Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

You're lying. The verse talks about those that emigrated with muhammad to Medina but later turned back when they knew that Muhammad was a false prophet and a liar and they turned back and left Islam, then Allah said they should be killed for turning back from Islam


﴿فَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ أَوْلِيَآءَ حَتَّى يُهَاجِرُواْ فِى سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ فَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْاْ﴾
(So take not Awliya' from them, till they emigrate in the way of Allah. But if they turn back,) if they abandon Hijrah, as Al-`Awfi reported from Ibn `Abbas. As-Suddi said that this part of the Ayah means, "If they make their disbelief public.''


"Others, such as Ibn Kathir and Maududi’s Quran commentary, say that the verse refers to the hypocrite Muslims who had accepted the message of Islam in Makkah..."

Meekha:


You are not getting it. The new Testament is the major point of differentiation between Judaism and Christianity. You keep churning out old testament laws that was purely Judaism. We are Christians and we take our doctrines from the New Testament.

Now I am not saying that Christians dump the entire old testament. No. They are part of our scripture. But when Jesus came around, he revealed the original intent of God to humanity.

For instance, he said that some of those laws were given to the Israelites then because of the hardness of their hearts. Hence, he replaced them with the law of Mercy and Truth (the Original intentions of God). This is why Christians don't do all these things, like killing for God, fighting religious fights, or killing because of their God or Jesus is insulted.

Muhammad came and took us back to the old testament laws.

Now with the rise of modernzation and self-awareness, those laws are plainly not meant for humans. Naah! How can you for instance raise a daggar to kill me because I say I don't find your religion desirable anymore and you'll think it is normal?

Go to Israel where Judaism is still practiced. They don't those barbaric things. It is plainly out of human conscience to kill people because of their beliefs.

I ONLY MENTIONED THIS TO EXPOSE THE HYPOCRISY OF THE CHRISTIANS HERE WHOSE FIRST LINE OF ATTACK IS THE APOSTASY LAW. IT'S COMMON TO ALL ABRAHAMIC FAITHS.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ISLAM AND THE OTHER TWO IS THAT. WHILE MUSLIMS BELIEVE GOD'S LAW TO BE UNCHANGING AND ETERNAL, JUDEO-CHRISTIANITY HAS AGREED TO PANDER TO THE DICTATES OF THE WORLD, THEREBY, ABANDONING DIVINE LAWS SEEN AS OUTMODED AND UNFITTING FOR MODERNITY.

THIS IS NOT THE REASON THOSE BOOKS WERE REVEALED. CONTRARY TO YOUR CLAIM ABOUT JESUS CHANGING THE OLD TESTAMENT LAWS, THIS IS WHAT HE SAYS IN MATTHEW 5: 17-20

Christ Came to Fulfill the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least vin the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great vin the kingdom of heaven. 20

JUDEO-CHRISTIANITY THINKS THAT THIS SOFTENING, CHANGING AND WHOLESALE ABANDONMENT OF DIVINE LAWS WILL MAKE THEIR RELIGIONS MORE ACCEPTABLE, BUT THE OPPOSITE IS THE CASE. SCANDINAVIAN COUNTRIES FOR EXAMPLE WHICH USED BE CHRISTIAN NOW HAVE NON RELIGIOUS MAJORITY, ALL OF THEM!

GOD SENT MUHAMMAD(saw,) TO RESTORE THE LAWS AFTER THEY WERE CHANGED SO THAT MANKIND WONT BE DOOMED, KNOWING NOT GOD'S LAW AND WILL.

advocatejare:

You're lying. The verse talks about those that emigrated with muhammad to Medina but later turned back when they knew that Muhammad was a false prophet and a liar and they turned back and left Islam, then Allah said they should be killed for turning back from Islam


﴿فَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ أَوْلِيَآءَ حَتَّى يُهَاجِرُواْ فِى سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ فَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْاْ﴾
(So take not Awliya' from them, till they emigrate in the way of Allah. But if they turn back,) if they abandon Hijrah, as Al-`Awfi reported from Ibn `Abbas. As-Suddi said that this part of the Ayah means, "If they make their disbelief public.''


"Others, such as Ibn Kathir and Maududi’s Quran commentary, say that the verse refers to the hypocrite Muslims who had accepted the message of Islam in Makkah..."

WE CAN DO WITHOUT YOUR RUDE INTRUSION.
WHY DO YOU THINK YOU NEED TO SPEAK FOR HIM,?
HE OPENED THIS THREAD SEEKING ANSWERS FROM MUSLIMS AND DECENT NON-MUSLIMS.

motayoayinde:


WE CAN DO WITHOUT YOUR RUDE INTRUSION.
WHY DO YOU THINK YOU NEED TO SPEAK HIM,?
HE OPENED THIS THREAD SEEKING ANSWERS FROM MUSLIMS AND DECENT NON-MUSLIMS.

Why don't you quote moslem scholars to support your position like he has done.

You know that in Islam scholar's stand matters.

sagenaija:

Why don't you quote moslem scholars to support your position like he has done.

You know that in Islam scholar's stand matters.

NO NEED FOR THAT. HIS LIE HAS BEEN BUSTED.

WHAT ACTUALLY MATTERS HERE IS THE VERSE WHICH SAYS THAT THERE'S NO CUMPULSION IN RELIGION.

AMONG OTHERS THINGS, THIS VERSE HAS PREVENTED MUSLIMS FROM
CARRYING OUT FORCED CONVERSIONS THAT IS VERY WIDESPREAD IN CHRISTIAN HISTORY.

motayoayinde:


WE CAN DO WITHOUT YOUR RUDE INTRUSION.
WHY DO YOU THINK YOU NEED TO SPEAK HIM,?
HE OPENED THIS THREAD SEEKING ANSWERS FROM MUSLIMS AND DECENT NON-MUSLIMS.

How come what you wrote doesn't make any sense?

Try write something that has a meaning

motayoayinde:


NO NEED FOR THAT. HIS LIE HAS BEEN BUSTED.

WHAT ACTUALLY MATTERS HERE IS THE VERSE WHICH SAYS THAT THERE'S NO CUMPULSION IN RELIGION.

Taqiyya master. That verse was abrogated and that was why Muhammad said anyone that leaves Islam should be killed.

Muhammad said there was no compulsion in Islam when he had few followers and no military powers. The moment he did, he started terrorising everyone that exposed his falsehoods

motayoayinde:


NO NEED FOR THAT. HIS LIE HAS BEEN BUSTED.

WHAT ACTUALLY MATTERS HERE IS THE VERSE WHICH SAYS THAT THERE'S NO CUMPULSION IN RELIGION.

AMONG OTHERS THINGS, THIS VERSE HAS PREVENTED MUSLIMS FROM
CARRYING OUT FORCED CONVERSIONS THAT IS VERY WIDESPREAD IN CHRISTIAN HISTORY.

But the following does not support your position:

It is narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded that I should fight against people till they declare that there is no god but Allah, and when they profess it that there is no god but Allah, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah, and then he (the Holy Prophet) recited (this verse of the Holy Qur’an): ”Thou art not over them a warden” (lxxxviii, 22).” (Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 32)

motayoayinde:


I ONLY MENTIONED THIS TO EXPOSE THE HYPOCRISY OF THE CHRISTIANS HERE WHOSE FIRST LINE OF ATTACK IS THE APOSTASY LAW. IT'S COMMON TO ALL ABRAHAMIC FAITHS.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ISLAM AND THE OTHER TWO IS THAT. WHILE MUSLIMS BELIEVE GOD'S LAW TO BE UNCHANGING AND ETERNAL, JUDEO-CHRISTIANITY HAS AGREED TO PANDER TO THE DICTATES OF THE WORLD, THEREBY, ABANDONING DIVINE LAWS SEEN AS OUTMODED AND UNFITTING FOR MODERNITY.

THIS IS NOT THE REASON THOSE BOOKS WERE REVEALED. CONTRARY TO YOUR CLAIM ABOUT JESUS CHANGING THE OLD TESTAMENT LAWS, THIS IS WHAT HE SAYS IN MATTHEW 5: 17-20

Christ Came to Fulfill the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least vin the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great vin the kingdom of heaven. 20

JUDEO-CHRISTIANITY THINKS THAT THIS SOFTENING, CHANGING AND WHOLESALE ABANDONMENT OF DIVINE LAWS WILL MAKE THEIR RELIGIONS MORE ACCEPTABLE, BUT THE OPPOSITE IS THE CASE. SCANDINAVIAN COUNTRIES FOR EXAMPLE WHICH USED BE CHRISTIAN NOW HAVE NON RELIGIOUS MAJORITY, ALL OF THEM!

GOD SENT MUHAMMAD(saw,) TO RESTORE THE LAWS AFTER THEY WERE CHANGED SO THAT MANKIND WONT BE DOOMED, KNOWING NOT GOD'S LAW AND WILL.

First of all, you got it all wrong when you said that it was hypocrisy in the part of Christians for not practicing apostasy.

With this line of reasoning, it is obvious that you don't even know the premise upon which Christianity was revealed through Christ to the rest of the world.

Like I said earlier, there is NO WHERE in the CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURES where we were commanded to practice Apostasy. Absolutely no where!

Talking about the New Testament citation you brought, you got it wrong again and again
Go and read Bible commentaries on that verse..wait! I have done the research for you. Read below..


[b]Jesus’ answer is very clear. In verse 17, He says: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish but to fulfill.”

When Jesus says, “Do not think … ,” we can assume that there are people who were thinking exactly that, that He was bringing something entirely new. His teaching was so radical, so antithetical to what they had come to believe that Jesus seemed to be turning established tradition on its ear. The people believed that the Law of Moses was the unique possession of the Jews. To repeal it would have seemed to be blasphemy.

These people would have appreciated nothing more than for Jesus to be teaching some kind of new, wild-eyed doctrine so that they could characterize it as “new” and then dismiss it. But Jesus doesn’t allow them this option. Instead, He teaches then that He stands directly in line with the Law and the Prophets. How does He stand in line with them? He fulfills them.

If you’re thinking with an inquisitive mind, you should immediately ask yourself, “Okay, that sounds clear, but what does ‘fulfill’ mean?” The interpretations of the meaning of “fulfill” in Matthew 5:17 basically fall into three categories.174

1) Some understand that Jesus came to do the Law, and this is a statement that His actions fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law. The problem is that Jesus’ teaching is in view here, not His actions. Notice at the end of the Sermon on the Mount, the people were “amazed by his teaching because he taught them like one who had authority, not like their experts in the law” (Matthew 7:28b-29).

2) [font=Lucida Sans Unicode]Others understand that Jesus fulfills the Law in that He completes it. This is to say they understand the word translated “fulfill” to mean complete in the sense of revealing its true intentions. This option is certainly there, but there is more to “fulfill” in Matthew than just explaining the Law.[/b]



Jesus never came to destroy the law... He rather came to fulfill it. If you understand what that chapter means, it shows that the intentions of God was for the transition of the Israelites into the new dispensation (Christianity). Same we pupils in elementary classes transit to higher classes.

You can keep citing the Judaic laws and I have done justice to you by answering you. The Apostasy laws in the Old Testament were abolished by Jesus when he came. That was why he admonished all his followers to be as meek as doves. Or have you not read where he told his disciples to turn the other cheek when people slap them on one cheek?


That is Christianity for you. Go and read the New Testament and cute verses supporting Apostasy laws and only then will I take your critique seriously!

Meekha:


First of all, you got it all wrong when you said that it was hypocrisy in the part of Christians for not practicing apostasy.

With this line of reasoning, it is obvious that you don't even know the premise upon which Christianity was revealed through Christ to the rest of the world.

Like I said earlier, there is NO WHERE in the CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURES where we were commanded to practice Apostasy. Absolutely no where!

You can keep citing the Judaic laws and I have done justice to you by answering you. The Apostasy laws in the Old Testament were abolished by Jesus when he came. That was why he admonished all his followers to be as meek as doves. Or have you not read where he told his disciples to turn the other cheek when peoplee slap them on one cheek?

PLEASE READ MATTHEW 5: 17-20 AGAIN AND COMMENT ON IT WITH SINCERITY.

AND I THINK IT'S BECOMING CLEAR YOUR MIND IS MADE UP ON YOUR NEW TRINITY EXPERIMENT. OTHERWISE YOU WON'T CONTINUE TO DISMISS ALL EVIDENCES AS OLD TESTAMENT LAWS EVEN AFTER I QUOTED FROM THE BOOK OF MATTHEW.

LET ME GIVE MY LAST WORD. CHRISTIANITY IS BUILT ON THE FOUNDATION OF TRINITY (most of it)

JESUS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS LATTER FORGERY. HE WAS A JEW AND ALL HIS DISCIPLES WERE.

THIS DOCTRINE WAS FORMULATED IN 325, AD IN CONSTANTINOPLE AT THE COUNCIL OF NICAEA AFTER A LONG BATTLE BETWEEN UNITARIANS WHO REJECTED THE TRINITY BLASPHEMY AND THE TRINITARIANS WHO ATTRIBUTED DIVINITY TO JESUS, MAKING HIM GOD.

I RECOMMEND THAT YOU STUDY THIS HISTORY WELL.

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
But the following does not support your position:

It is narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded that I should fight against people till they declare that there is no god but Allah, and when they profess it that there is no god but Allah, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah, and then he (the Holy Prophet) recited (this verse of the Holy Qur’an): ”Thou art not over them a warden” (lxxxviii, 22).” (Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 32)

NOPE. WHAT YOU QUOTED ACTUALLY SUPPORTS MY POSITION.

READ THE HADITH AGAIN AND THE VERSE READ BY THE PROPHET.
IT SHOWS CLEARLY THAT THE AFFAIRS OF THOSE WHO DON'T ACCEPT ISLAM IS TO BE LEFT TO ALLAH.

IN SEVERAL VERSES, ALLAH MAKES IT CLEAR THAT HE ALONE GUIDES NOT ANYONE ELSE NOT EVEN THE PROPHET

advocatejare:

Taqiyya master. That verse was abrogated and that was why Muhammad said anyone that leaves Islam should be killed.

Muhammad said there was no compulsion in Islam when he had few followers and no military powers. The moment he did, he started terrorising everyone that exposed his falsehoods

STOP USING ARABIC WORDS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND.

THE WORD "TAQIYYAH" IS IRRELEVANT HERE.

motayoayinde:


STOP USING ARABIC WORDS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND.

THE WORD "TAQIYYAH" IS IRRELEVANT HERE.

"Taqiyya is a precautionary dissimulation or denial of religious belief..."

You're here denying your religious belief that apostates are killed in Islam because you want to deliberately deceive people that Islam is a religion of peace.

Everyone knows that Islam is the religion of terror and violence. Even Muhammad confessed that he was made victorious in terror

motayoayinde:


PLEASE READ MATTHEW 5: 17-20 AGAIN AND COMMENT ON IT WITH SINCERITY.

AND I THINK IT'S BECOMING CLEAR YOUR MIND IS MADE UP ON YOUR NEW TRINITY EXPERIMENT. OTHERWISE YOU WON'T CONTINUE TO DISMISS ALL EVIDENCES AS OLD TESTAMENT LAWS EVEN AFTER I QUOTED FROM THE BOOK OF MATTHEW.

LET ME GIVE MY LAST WORD. CHRISTIANITY IS BUILT ON THE FOUNDATION OF TRINITY (most of it)

JESUS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS LATTER FORGERY. HE WAS A JEW AND ALL HIS DISCIPLES WERE.

THIS DOCTRINE WAS FORMULATED IN 325, AD IN CONSTANTINOPLE AT THE COUNCIL OF NICAEA AFTER A LONG BATTLE BETWEEN UNITARIANS WHO REJECTED THE TRINITY BLASPHEMY AND THE TRINITARIANS WHO ATTRIBUTED DIVINITY TO JESUS, MAKING HIM GOD.

I RECOMMEND THAT YOU STUDY THIS HISTORY WELL.

I am very much acquainted with the details of the supposed council of Nicaea. What you don't understand is that there are many stories about the origination of the Trinity (blessed) and what you choose to believe is entirely dependent on what you want to hear.

I have read scriptures on this regards and I can tell you why Jesus is God if you care to listen. Oh yes, there are many instances where Jesus told his disciples to give rendition to God and all of these have their own individual explanation.

In fact, the clearest indication that Jesus claimed to be and is God is when He called Himself the 'I AM' in the book of John. And what was the repercussions for this? The Jews who understood the weightiness threatened to kill Him (the very same thing Muslims will do) be they thought of Him to be a mere mortal who placed Himself in equal position with God. I honestly smiled when you called this your last words, well, you even helped fulfill the scriptures. Christianity, as well know it is built on the idea of Trinity. Fact!

There are lots of scriptural injunctions, both from the Old and New Testaments that shows why He (Jesus) is God I can settle down and dig them out for you if you care to know.

On a moral ground, compare Jesus with Muhammad. Like, can they even be compared? I have taken my time to study the personal lives of Muhammad and Jesus and all i can say is that the average human is more morally upright than Muhammad. With all due respect to your emotional connection to your religion, there are lots of questionable traits and habits that are privy to Muhammad that will make any thinking person not take him as a role model. But the cap of it all is that, I can't follow a man who admitted that he does not know what will become of him after his death. I mean, why following you in the first place?

Humans are not guinea pigs and there's absolutely everything wrong with staking my life for an ideology that I can't beat my chest knowing where I'll be at the end of the day.

PS: You've moved from denying that there is anything like Apostasy in Islam to subtly accepting it and even forcing it down our sacred Christian throats to accept it too because they were captured in the Old Testament. You even went ahead to blame the media for this. Muslims always do this. I don't know if it is deliberate or if it is the taquiyya thing. It is either you are ignorant of your religion or you are lying to defend it. In either case, you can't hold an intelligent and honest debate with someone who had a firsthand experience of both faiths. Peace!

No Muslim who have commented so far has taken time to explain to we Christians why Allah will intentionally lead some people astray and keep some people in the right part while at the same time turning around to punish them again. What wickedness?

Y'all have also skipped my question on why Muslim females are forbidden from marrying unbelievers of Islam while often violently denying male unbelievers of Islam from marrying a female Muslim. Is this justice? Or is there a hidden agenda by Muhammad? Is this not suggesting that Muhammad needed more followers into his religion?

Too many questions about Islam and its disharmony with common sense.

Meekha:


I am very much acquainted with the details of the supposed council of Nicaea. What you don't understand is that there are many stories about the origination of the Trinity (blessed) and what you choose to believe is entirely dependent on what you want to hear.

I have read scriptures on this regards and I can tell you why Jesus is God if you care to listen. Oh yes, there are many instances where Jesus told his disciples to give rendition to God and all of these have their own individual explanation.

In fact, the clearest indication that Jesus claimed to be and is God is when He called Himself the 'I AM' in the book of John. And what was the repercussions for this? The Jews who understood the weightiness threatened to kill Him (the very same thing Muslims will do) be they thought of Him to be a mere mortal who placed Himself in equal position with God. I honestly smiled when you called this your last words, well, you even helped fulfill the scriptures. Christianity, as well know it is built on the idea of Trinity. Fact!

There are lots of scriptural injunctions, both from the Old and New Testaments that shows why He (Jesus) is God I can settle down and dig them out for you if you care to know.

On a moral ground, compare Jesus with Muhammad. Like, can they even be compared? I have taken my time to study the personal lives of Muhammad and Jesus and all i can say is that the average human is more morally upright than Muhammad. With all due respect to your emotional connection to your religion, there are lots of questionable traits and habits that are privy to Muhammad that will make any thinking person not take him as a role model. But the cap of it all is that, I can't follow a man who admitted that he does not know what will become of him after his death. I mean, why following you in the first place?

Humans are not guinea pigs and there's absolutely everything wrong with staking my life for an ideology that I can't beat my chest knowing where I'll be at the end of the day.

PS: You've moved from denying that there is anything like Apostasy in Islam to subtly accepting it and even forcing it down our sacred Christian throats to accept it too because they were captured in the Old Testament. You even went ahead to blame the media for this. Muslims always do this. I don't know if it is deliberate or if it is the taquiyya thing. It is either you are ignorant of your religion or you are lying to defend it. In either case, you can't hold an intelligent and honest debate with someone who had a firsthand experience of both faiths. Peace!

IT ALL SEEMS VERY CLEAR NOW.
THIS IS THE REASON WHY IT'S DIFFICULT TO BELIEVE "XMUSLIM" CLAIMS ON THIS PLATFORM.

motayoayinde:


IT ALL SEEMS VERY CLEAR NOW.
THIS IS THE REASON WHY IT'S DIFFICULT TO BELIEVE "XMUSLIM" CLAIMS ON THIS PLATFORM.

I wasn't mincing words when I said I was born a Muslim. A ram was killed in my behalf a week after I was born and I was given a Muslim name. I was only lucky to be born in a family from middle belt where they don't kill because of religion. In fact, at a point, half of my family were Christians and were Muslims. But to God be the glory, all except Dad are full-time Christians. Dad is joining soon but he is still afraid of what his elder brothers will say!

I told you I was a Muslim but I am not forcing you to believe. Its a free world you know.

motayoayinde:


NOPE. WHAT YOU QUOTED ACTUALLY SUPPORTS MY POSITION.

READ THE HADITH AGAIN AND THE VERSE READ BY THE PROPHET.
IT SHOWS CLEARLY THAT THE AFFAIRS OF THOSE WHO DON'T ACCEPT ISLAM IS TO BE LEFT TO ALLAH.

IN SEVERAL VERSES, ALLAH MAKES IT CLEAR THAT HE ALONE GUIDES NOT ANYONE ELSE NOT EVEN THE PROPHET

I want you to help me out here.

Please show me how what i quoted supports your position.

Explain the portion I highlighted. Stick to this narration and explain it to me.
This is it again:

It is narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded that I should fight against people till they declare that there is no god but Allah, and when they profess it that there is no god but Allah, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah, and then he (the Holy Prophet) recited (this verse of the Holy Qur’an): ”Thou art not over them a warden” (lxxxviii, 22).” (Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 32)

Meekha:


I wasn't mincing words when I said I was born a Muslim. A ram was killed in my behalf a week after I was born and I was given a Muslim name. I was only lucky to be born in a family from middle belt where they don't kill because of religion. In fact, at a point, half of my family were Christians and were Muslims. But to God be the glory, all except Dad are full-time Christians. Dad is joining soon but he is still afraid of what his elder brothers will say!

I told you I was a Muslim but I am not forcing you to believe. Its a free world you know.

ragenaija, THIS IS CLEARLY YOUR HANDIWORK.

Meekha:
With all due respect to your religion and your emotional connection to it, there are a number of things I find discomforting and those were my sole reasons for leaving Islam.

I'll like to ask how you feel about...

* The Death Punishment for Apostasy.

* The fact that Islam approve of Muslim males to marry non-Muslim females and will often violently reject non-Muslim males from marrying a Muslim female.

* The fact that Allah intentionally lead some people astray and let some people remain in the right path

* Calling for the death of those who criticise your prophet.

To be honest, all of these reasons are absurd to me and they were part of the reasons why I knew I can't continue to be a Muslim. This is because to you me, the ideology upon which Islam is was built reeks of insecurity and conquest.

As a person who cherishes his own free will and freedom to choose, all of these does not make any sense to me because they do not harmonize with our human nature.

So Muslims, the table has turned to you. What is it about Christianity or other religions that makes you think that they are not the right religion or why do you still insist that Islam is the right religion even when it will readily call for your death when you decide to leave it??

Bible also has some of these problems, but Christians will claim that jesus has erased all those laws. My question to Christians is WHAT WAS YAHWEH THINKING WHEN HE REVEALED THOSE LAWS.

Your best bet is to leave all religions. You may still believe in God, but those religions can't be accepted if you are willing to follow your rational mind

forlexxy:



We believe naturally that all people were born as Muslims then the families they are born into later influence the child's thinking or the culture influences the child's natural belief in one God .

but Muhammad still told you to force your children to observe solat. If they were Muslim naturally and they were lucky to be born by a Muslim, why forcing them to practice Islam. Isn't Muhammad claim a BIG FALLACY?

motayoayinde:
.

BEFORE ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS THOUGH, I'D LIKE THAT KNOW IF YOU'RE STILL.AS OPEN-MINDED ON THE ISSUE AS TO ACCEPT SOME OF MY POINTS IF YOU FIND THEM SATISFACTORY.

THIS IS SO THAT WE DON'T RUN IN CIRCLES AND NOBODY'S TIME IS WASTED.

You can't justify those points without you running in circles yourself. The hadeeths and Qur'an are crystal clear on those issue. Stop twisting your own source

Just accept that there are part of your religion that doesn't make sense and move on. Nobody is forcing you to be free of dogma and superstition, but stop justifying nonsense spoken by Muhammad 1400 year ago

AntiChristian:


..

your Tu Quoque fallacy is amazing.

You were asked to justify nonsen.sical stuffs in Islam. You left the argument and started pointing out similar nons.ense in Christianity.

If both are nonsense, why did you chose one nonse.nse and criticise the other. Is your no.nsense less nonsensical to his nonsense.se