Meekha:



Now I am not saying that Christians dump the entire old testament. No. They are part of our scripture. But when Jesus came around, he revealed the original intent of God to humanity.

.

so the old testament gave the false intent of God?

Was Yahweh not aware that those laws were too harsh.

I'm not a Muslim for your information. I disagree with all religions,but I don't deny the possibility of existence of a God

AntiChristian:


No, I think I brought similar verses of what you claimed chased you from Islam to Christianity from the Bible.

Now you can now embrace another religion if you're truthful in the beginning!

for the first time, I agree with you completely.

Meekha:


I am a Christian and not a Jew. I follow the teachings and commands of Jesus and not everything captured in the Old Testament because some of the laws were not originally made for people. Jesus came and revealed the true intentions of God.

Muhammad came and dragged us back to the law of an eye for an eye and laws of apostasy.

As at the moment, I don't know of any Christian secret that encourages that wicked and inhumane act. You know any?? Tell me pls.

when you back online, just answer my repeated question once. WHAT WAS YAHWEH THINKING WHEN HE REVEALED THOSE LAWS.

Unless you can't live without religion, Christianity is not in line with common sense either

motayoayinde:



256. Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

fún fact. Hadith can abrogate Qur'an verse and this verse has been abrogated by two hadeeths.

1. Hadith that command the killing of apostate.

2. Hadith where Muhammad says he is been commanded to fight people until they become Muslim.

Read your tafseer Well before posting Qur'an verse that's been abrogated by Muhammad hadeeths

advocatejare:

You're lying. The verse talks about those that emigrated with muhammad to Medina but later turned back when they knew that Muhammad was a false prophet and a liar and they turned back and left Islam, then Allah said they should be killed for turning back from Islam


﴿فَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ أَوْلِيَآءَ حَتَّى يُهَاجِرُواْ فِى سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ فَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْاْ﴾
(So take not Awliya' from them, till they emigrate in the way of Allah. But if they turn back,) if they abandon Hijrah, as Al-`Awfi reported from Ibn `Abbas. As-Suddi said that this part of the Ayah means, "If they make their disbelief public.''


"Others, such as Ibn Kathir and Maududi’s Quran commentary, say that the verse refers to the hypocrite Muslims who had accepted the message of Islam in Makkah..."

even though I don't agree with Christianity (I like it more than Islam though), I appreciate your effort in going through tafseer. Those Muslims will only use tafseer when it favours them. But they will claim open mindedness

advocatejare:

Taqiyya master. That verse was abrogated and that was why Muhammad said anyone that leaves Islam should be killed.

Muhammad said there was no compulsion in Islam when he had few followers and no military powers. The moment he did, he started terrorising everyone that exposed his falsehoods

truly, you know too much about Islam. Your accuracy and evidence against Islam is amazing.

motayoayinde:


PLEASE READ MATTHEW 5: 17-20 AGAIN AND COMMENT ON IT WITH SINCERITY.

AND I THINK IT'S BECOMING CLEAR YOUR MIND IS MADE UP ON YOUR NEW TRINITY EXPERIMENT. OTHERWISE YOU WON'T CONTINUE TO DISMISS ALL EVIDENCES AS OLD TESTAMENT LAWS EVEN AFTER I QUOTED FROM THE BOOK OF MATTHEW.

LET ME GIVE MY LAST WORD. CHRISTIANITY IS BUILT ON THE FOUNDATION OF TRINITY (most of it)

JESUS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS LATTER FORGERY. HE WAS A JEW AND ALL HIS DISCIPLES WERE.

THIS DOCTRINE WAS FORMULATED IN 325, AD IN CONSTANTINOPLE AT THE COUNCIL OF NICAEA AFTER A LONG BATTLE BETWEEN UNITARIANS WHO REJECTED THE TRINITY BLASPHEMY AND THE TRINITARIANS WHO ATTRIBUTED DIVINITY TO JESUS, MAKING HIM GOD.

I RECOMMEND THAT YOU STUDY THIS HISTORY WELL.

Islam is not that different from trinity if you look at it critically.

Muhammad says your solat is not accepted if you don't do salat ala nabiy. Why would Allah want you to pray for Muhammad before he bless Muhammad.

You can't be a good Muslim if you don't love Muhammad more than your parents, children and your own life.

Obviously Muhammad was using one God claim to scam you guys, but silently forcing you to worship him indirectly

Xmuslim:
fún fact. Hadith can abrogate Qur'an verse and this verse has been abrogated by two hadeeths.

1. Hadith that command the killing of apostate.

2. Hadith where Muhammad says he is been commanded to fight people until they become Muslim.

Read your tafseer Well before posting Qur'an verse that's been abrogated by Muhammad hadeeths

YOU NEED TO READ THREADS PROPERLY BEFORE JUMPING INTO DISCUSSIONS.

READ AGAIN AND SEE WHAT BROUGHT THIS QUOTE ABOUT.

sagenaija:

Below debunks your claims.

THE HADITH ON APOSTASY
There are several Hadith that state that apostates are to be killed. Unlike the Koran there is no ambiguity or subjectivity in the Hadith’s statements.

Bukhari’s Hadith Collection

Bukhari, volume 9, #17

"Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Messenger said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

Bukhari, volume 9, #57

Narrated Ikrima, "Some atheists were brought to Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's messenger forbade it, saying, "Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire)." I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Messenger, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."

Bukhari, volume 9, #58

Narrated Abu Burda, "Abu Musa said.....Behold there was a fettered man beside Abu Musa. Muadh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Musa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Musa requested Muadh to sit down but Muadh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and his messenger," and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers .....

Bukhari volume 4, #656:

You see one problem with those who want to " refute" Islamic positions,they so it with so much gusto and so.much confident that you think there is literally no chink in their armour of argument.
Guess what? You just failed woefully in flying colours trying to tailor make Islam to your shallow understanding.

The killing of an apostate here, is like someone who committed treason in an ISLAAMIC STATE not in a state multi religious state like Nigeria.
In Islam killing of an apostate is not done jungle justice style ,no.
It is done in accordance with lay down laws .

If you can go against the main body of Muslims and say it is okay in an ISLAAMIC STATE then the gavel falls on you.

Have you asked yourself why the American government are still prosecuting Edward Snowden and Julia Assange for treason which we all know is punishable by death?

Some of you come around sounding like an intellectual liona not knowing you are hapless mice trying to roar like lions.

Xmuslim:
truly, you know too much about Islam. Your accuracy and evidence against Islam is amazing.

Thank you brother

Xmuslim:
Islam is not that different from trinity if you look at it critically.

Muhammad says your solat is not accepted if you don't do salat ala nabiy. Why would Allah want you to pray for Muhammad before he bless Muhammad.

You can't be a good Muslim if you don't love Muhammad more than your parents, children and your own life.

Obviously Muhammad was using one God claim to scam you guys, but silently forcing you to worship him indirectly

.
Stop sounding "intelligent " when you are basically ignorant about the practices of Muslims.

Your Xmuslims moniker has farmed you out.

You don't know anything you are speaking of.

Do you know what salaah alaa nabiy means?

Do you know what it means to love the prophet more than we love our parents?

How is obeying his instructions about God amounts to worshiping him?

Do you even understand basic English?

I see;to you: black is white,red is green.
And the sad part is you just a too intellectually impaired to see beyond your shallowness you mistake for intelligence.

advocatejare:

Thank you brother

His dumbness about the topic is monumental,

He knows nothing of what he has been yapping about.

I have asked him some basic questions which he is yet to answer.

Let him answer me first.

Before you claim to know something you must be able to explain what you claim.
This is a basic maxim.

Xmuslim:
even though I don't agree with Christianity (I like it more than Islam though),

I get your points bro, I had many reservations about Christianity too until I studied Jesus on my own, I read the New Testament on my own and examine the teachings of Jesus.

The one that struck me was when he summarised all the laws into two. He said just love the Lord God with all your heart and love your neighbors like yourself

Matt.22.37 - Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
Matt.22.38 - This is the first and greatest commandment.
Matt.22.39 - And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
Matt.22.40 - All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

If all the prophets hang on these laws, how come Muhammad that claim to be a Prophet never preached love?

The other thing that struck me is that Islam teaches that Muhammad was the greatest Prophet and yet Allah couldn't prevent him from dying from poison, yet the same Allah rescued Jesus from dying on the cross and raised Jesus alive to heaven. Why didn't Allah honour Muhammad like that?


Also, Muhammad was the only 'prophet' that died of poison and Muhammad claimed he was a believer like Jesus. But the same Jesus said poison cannot work on believers, yet poison worked on Muhammad. That means Muhammad was not a believer. He was obviously an impostor.

"Bukhari 5:59:713
...
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."


Mark.16.17 - And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
Mark.16.18 - they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

One thing is certain anyways and it's the fact that there's God. And if I'm to choose between the God Jesus or Muhammad preached, then I'll go with the God of Jesus because of the manners and the ways Jesus lived his life. I can proudly say I want to emulate the life of Jesus but I can never want to be like Muhammad, not again

I appreciate your effort in going through tafseer. Those Muslims will only use tafseer when it favours them. But they will claim open mindedness

Thanks once again. It was when I was at the point of leaving Islam that I searched for all these truth to justify my exit from the cult of falsehoods or to be able to see for myself the lies my Ustaz have told me

Friend22:


His dumbness about the topic is monumental,

He knows nothing of what he has been yapping about.

I have asked him some basic questions which he is yet to answer.

Let him answer me first.

Before you claim to know something you must be able to explain what you claim.
This is a basic maxim.

If you're referring to Xmuslim, then your assertion is not true.

Go and read his posts and comments again and you'll have a rethink

Meekha:
With all due respect to your religion and your emotional connection to it, there are a number of things I find discomforting and those were my sole reasons for leaving Islam.

I'll like to ask how you feel about...

* The Death Punishment for Apostasy.

* The fact that Islam approve of Muslim males to marry non-Muslim females and will often violently reject non-Muslim males from marrying a Muslim female.

* The fact that Allah intentionally lead some people astray and let some people remain in the right path

* Calling for the death of those who criticise your prophet.

To be honest, all of these reasons are absurd to me and they were part of the reasons why I knew I can't continue to be a Muslim. This is because to you me, the ideology upon which Islam is was built reeks of insecurity and conquest.

As a person who cherishes his own free will and freedom to choose, all of these does not make any sense to me because they do not harmonize with our human nature.

So Muslims, the table has turned to you. What is it about Christianity or other religions that makes you think that they are not the right religion or why do you still insist that Islam is the right religion even when it will readily call for your death when you decide to leave it??

One thing ex Muslims say to berate Muslims is the idea that they are "free" from the so called ethics and moral chains of Islam.
I hate it to break this to you:
No one is truly free in that sense ,because if you are truly free you would do as you wish without no one questioning you. Is that the case?!

This is the cheap lie some of you who leave Islam tell others.
Can you really do as you like ?
Even the way you worship in Christianity:do you do certain acts based on your whims or what you are being told by MOGs?

We all know you left because you were not
patient and knowledgeable enough to seek answers to your doubts.
You just wanted something that will massage your ego that's why you left.
Those points you listed can easily be refuted without thinking twice.

advocatejare:

I get your points bro, I had many reservations about Christianity too until I studied Jesus on my own, I read the New Testament on my own and examine the teachings of Jesus.

The one that struck me was when he summarised all the laws into two. He said just love the Lord God with all your heart and love your neighbors like yourself

Matt.22.37 - Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
Matt.22.38 - This is the first and greatest commandment.
Matt.22.39 - And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
Matt.22.40 - All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

If all the prophets hang on these laws, how come Muhammad that claim to be a Prophet never preached love?

The other thing that struck me is that Islam teaches that Muhammad was the greatest Prophet and yet Allah couldn't prevent him from dying from poison, yet the same Allah rescued Jesus from dying on the cross and raised Jesus alive to heaven. Why didn't Allah honour Muhammad like that?


Also, Muhammad was the only 'prophet' that died of poison and Muhammad claimed he was a believer like Jesus. But the same Jesus said poison cannot work on believers, yet poison worked on Muhammad. That means Muhammad was not a believer. He was obviously an impostor.

"Bukhari 5:59:713
...
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."


Mark.16.17 - And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
Mark.16.18 - they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."



Thanks once again. It was when I was at the point of leaving Islam that I searched for all these truth to justify my exit from the cult of falsehoods or to be able to see for myself the lies my Ustaz have told me

Very lame argument.
Very very lame.

Loving God means what to you?

How do you even know what loving God means?

Some of you are just oscillating between trying to know and claiming to know.

I want to know what you mean by loving God first before we go further.

advocatejare:

If you're referring to Xmuslim, then your assertion is not true.

Go and read his posts and comments again and you'll have a rethink

What are is claims?!
I have read them and they are as watery as they come.

I have asked him series of question on this same thread let him answer them first.

Because he is a ex-muslim makes you think he is a sort of an authority in our religion?!

Let him answer those questions first.

Friend22:


Very lame argument.
Very very lame.

Loving God means what to you?

How do you even know what loving God means?

Some of you are just oscillating between trying to know and claiming to know.

I want to know what you mean by loving God first before we go further.

Let me break it down for you.

God is a holy one that detests all forms of immoralities, by God I mean Yahweh and not Allah. Because Allah itself is an immoral god, if he's not he won't justify the shameful action of Muhammad to have married the wife of Zaid his adopted son. Rather than reprimand Muhammad, Allah gave him the nod to go ahead with his immoral acts and say he can have as many woman as possible.

David that tried a similar thing was reprimanded and severely punished by Yahweh to prove that Yahweh doesn't condone immorality.

And Allah even says all what Muslims will be doing in paradise is to be having sex.

Before I go further. Tell me if Allah is a holy god and prove it from the Quran or Sahih hadith

Friend22:


You see one problem with those who want to " refute" Islamic positions,they so it with so much gusto and so.much confident that you think there is literally no chink in their armour of argument.
Guess what? You just failed woefully in flying colours trying to tailor make Islam to your shallow understanding.

The killing of an apostate here, is like someone who committed treason in an ISLAAMIC STATE not in a state multi religious state like Nigeria.
In Islam killing of an apostate is not done jungle justice style ,no.
It is done in accordance with lay down laws .

If you can go against the main body of Muslims and say it is okay in an ISLAAMIC STATE then the gavel falls on you.

Have you asked yourself why the American government are still prosecuting Edward Snowden and Julia Assange for treason which we all know is punishable by death?

Your problem is in one word 'comprehension'.
No insult intended.

The issue is not about America or islamic state or multi religious state. The issue is DOES ISLAM AS A RELIGION TEACH what we have stated? Simple.

advocatejare:


Let me break it down for you.

God is a holy one that detests all forms of immoralities, by God I mean Yahweh and not Allah. Because Allah itself is an immoral god, if he's not he won't justify the shameful action of Muhammad to have married the wife of Zaid his adopted son. Rather than reprimand Muhammad, Allah gave him the nod to go ahead with his immoral acts and say he can have as many woman as possible.

David that tried a similar thing was reprimanded and severely punished by Yahweh to prove that Yahweh doesn't condone immorality.

And Allah even says all what Muslims will be doing in paradise is to be having sex.

Before I go further. Tell me if Allah is a holy god and prove it from the Quran or Sahih hadith

Keep talking as if morality you don't even understand from your jaundice approach is what we should follow.

How can you call it immoral if one marries is adopted son's wife?
How ?!

Marriage is a contract of acceptance and rejection.

How we Muslims marry in Islam is clearly defined in the Qur'an.

And adopted son is not your biological son.
Get that straight.
One can marry any woman apart from his father's wife ,son's wife and a long list of female relatives but definitely not you divorced adoptee son's wife.

Using the marriage of David as reported in your Bible as a premise to judge how we Muslims marry shows the error in your conclusion.

Newsflash!
We don't believe Dawud (peace be upon him)which you call David will do such thing as sending a soldier to war so he can have his way with the soldier's wife..
I know the story too well.
We don't believe any prophet of God will do that and as such,your claims are irrelevant to how we marry our women.


Is Allaah the holy God or not?
Let's break it down like this;God is the supreme being we humans acknowledge has the creator of all beings seen and unseen.
Before you ask what a word means in another person's vocabulary you need to do a little research of etymology before speaking.
The word "God" is Germanic in origin "GOTT" which was later anglicized to "God" referring to the same eternal being.
Whether you call Him Yaweh,Jeovah,Allaah,Obangiji(in Hausa),Oluhun(In Yoruba),Chukwu(in Igbo),Oghena(In Etsako in Edo state,my place),Eli or Elohim(in Aramaic in Jesus's mother tongue) we refer to the same everliving,omnipotent and omniscient being.

Trying to place a dichotomy between who is Allaah and who is "Yaweh" or "Jeovah" shows how (sorry to say) unread you are.

Christian Arabs specifically the Coptic Christians in Egypt use the word Allaah in their arabic Bibles same goes for other Arabs Christians in the some middle east nations like Lebanon and Syria.

And it beats me hollow as to how some of you just pop out from nowhere and trying to push it down our throats that we must take your views or the high way when you are wholly ignorant of your religion.

If I decide to ask some of the basic tenents of your faith believe me, you can't and you will not be able to answer with the benefit of your bible.

Xmuslim:
when you back online, just answer my repeated question once. WHAT WAS YAHWEH THINKING WHEN HE REVEALED THOSE LAWS.

Unless you can't live without religion, Christianity is not in line with common sense either

I get what you mean and I have such questions too. However as far as I'm concerned, the moral law is still eternal and jesus did not come to change the moral laws but the ceremonial and civil laws. Those civil laws for ancient Israel were no longer important in the grand scheme of things.

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
Your problem is in one word 'comprehension'.
No insult intended.

The issue is not about America or islamic state or multi religious state. The issue is DOES ISLAM AS A RELIGION TEACH what we have stated? Simple.

You see the problem with some of you.
You just want us to answer yes or no to questions that needs clarification before answering them.
How can you impose your interpretation on us and expect any rational Muslim to just accept?
How?

Is like asking you can a Christian marry a woman?

It will be very foolish of you to say yes without seeking to understand the question properly, because if you do,you are already saying marrying one's mother, sister,aunts and daughters since they are women.
This is the trap you are setting for us and I can see clearly through it.

Friend22:



One thing ex Muslims say to berate Muslims is the idea that they are "free" from the so called ethics and moral chains of Islam.
I hate it to break this to you:
No one is truly free in that sense ,because if you are truly free you would do as you wish without no one questioning you. Is that the case?!

This is the cheap lie some of you who leave Islam tell others.
Can you really do as you like ?
Even the way you worship in Christianity:do you do certain acts based on your whims or what you are being told by MOGs?

We all know you left because you were not
patient and knowledgeable enough to seek answers to your doubts.
You just wanted something that will massage your ego that's why you left.
Those points you listed can easily be refuted without thinking twice.

Your opinion or perception of me does not matter. You have all the right in the world to dissent happily. Your views, your life . This is part of what I am also championing as a human, freedom!

You seem not to understand why I created this thread. Unlike other Abrahamic religions we have today, Islam often employ violent subjugation on its adherents who asks questions about it, especially when the said question directly questions its authenticity.

I am not saying that other religions will be happy when people leave their religion. For instance, I can't for all the life of me feel happy when a sibling says he does not want to be a Christian again. But I will never seek to hurt such a person. The same analogy goes for my sisters. I can't seek to harm them when they marry an unbeliever of the Christian faith.

Can we say such of the Islam?? The next time you attend a Quranic tafsir, tell your ustaz that you want to leave Islam and see happens to you. That is what I am talking about. Is this not the very same way secret cults operate? Will they not drive a knife through your heart when you want to leave them?

You seem to think that Christians are lawless. You are simply wrong. Go to the UK for instance that is a Christian nation. Check how ordered and lawful they are. Even the Almighty US which you Muslims hate so much are thousands of times more ordered than a lot of Muslim countries.

Your only problem is that Christians are not keeping to your kind of laws. Well, we have our own ideals too and we can't leave it and practice yours. I hope this helps

PS: Saying that I tell cheap lies already shows your level of intelligence. With such unconscious biases and ignorance, you can't reason with me even when I bare the truth to you. Peace!

Xmuslim:
so the old testament gave the false intent of God?

Was Yahweh not aware that those laws were too harsh.

I'm not a Muslim for your information. I disagree with all religions,but I don't deny the possibility of existence of a God

I'll answer you with an analogy. Do you discard what you learn in elementary class when you transit go higher classes? No! But when you get to higher classes, you have no business solving elementary class arithmetic again. The old testament and the Judaic laws were not false. They were simply a dispensation. The Christian dispensation was meant to take over from the Judaism. Both were the ordinance of God but what is currently acceptable to God is Christianity because the coming of Christ ushered us into a new dispensation which the Jews refuse to acknowledge. I hope this helps.

Xmuslim:
Islam is not that different from trinity if you look at it critically.

Muhammad says your solat is not accepted if you don't do salat ala nabiy. Why would Allah want you to pray for Muhammad before he bless Muhammad.

You can't be a good Muslim if you don't love Muhammad more than your parents, children and your own life.

Obviously Muhammad was using one God claim to scam you guys, but silently forcing you to worship him indirectly

THIS IS SO LUDICROUS, IT'S NOT WORTH STRESSING ABOUT.

motayoayinde:


ragenaija, THIS IS CLEARLY YOUR HANDIWORK.

Are you not seeing the moniker clearly?

Xmuslim:
Bible also has some of these problems, but Christians will claim that jesus has erased all those laws. My question to Christians is WHAT WAS YAHWEH THINKING WHEN HE REVEALED THOSE LAWS.

Your best bet is to leave all religions. You may still believe in God, but those religions can't be accepted if you are willing to follow your rational mind

Your best bet is your ideal and not necessarily the truth. While agree with you that religion is a problem, I can't agree that the idea of connecting to God via a worship system is necessarily wrong.

Xmuslim:
when you back online, just answer my repeated question once. WHAT WAS YAHWEH THINKING WHEN HE REVEALED THOSE LAWS.

Unless you can't live without religion, Christianity is not in line with common sense either

The fact remains that the Bible indicated that it wasn't His original intention for mankind. Even the old testament was filled with these illustrations. I can search them out for you.

Friend22:


Keep talking as if morality you don't even understand from your jaundice approach is what we should follow.

How can you call it immoral if one marries is adopted son's wife?[/b
How ?!

Zaid had been living with Mohammed since he was 8 years old, Mohammed was a father figure and by Arab's tradition that time, Zaid was entitled to every right Mohammed's biological children were entitled to.

[b]Because of a single woman, Muhammad destroyed the tradition of adoption and its good privileges in the Arab world, just so that Mohammed could take over the wife of Zaid and make it legal.

If you don't see that as evil, then it's okay that means you can also do the same thing: take over the wife of someone who grew up with you and saw you as a father figure and role model.

The same Quran tell us that Mohammed had concealed the thought of marrying Zainab in his heart even before Zaid divorced her.

Muhammad was already coveting Zaid's wife. Muhammad broke the law of the true holy God that said "don't covet your neighbor's wife" instead of Allah to prove to Mohammed that he was a holy god, he proved us wrong by endorsing Mohammed's Zina of the heart and covetousness. Allah is a morally corrupt god.


Allah relegated women into a mere commodity by saying he married Zainab to Muhammad when Zaid was no longer in need of her.


"And [remember, O Muhammad], when you said to the one on whom Allah bestowed favor and you bestowed favor, Keep your wife and fear Allah, while you concealed within yourself that which Allah is to disclose. And you feared the people, while Allah has more right that you fear Him. So when Zayd had no longer any need for her, We married her to you in order that there not be upon the believers any discomfort concerning the wives of their adopted sons when they no longer have need of them. And ever is the command of Allah accomplished."
(QS. Al-Ahzaab 33: Verse 37)

Now this the proof that adopted sons were treated as biological sons before Zina made Muhammad to change the rule

"Narrated `Aisha:
(the wife of the Prophet) Abu Hudhaifa, one of those who fought the battle of Badr, with Allah's Apostle adopted Salim as his son and married his niece Hind bint Al-Wahd bin `Utba to him' and Salim was a freed slave of an Ansari woman. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) also adopted Zaid as his son. In the Prelslamic period of ignorance the custom was that, if one adopted a son, the people would call him by the name of the adopted-father whom he would inherit as well, till Allah revealed: "Call them (adopted sons) By (the names of) their fathers." (33.5)
-Sahih al-Bukhari 5:59:335


"Narrated `Aisha:
Abu Hudhaifa bin `Utba bin Rabi`a bin `Abdi Shams who had witnessed the battle of Badr along with the Prophet (ﷺ) adopted Salim as his son, to whom he married his niece, Hind bint Al-Walid bin `Utba bin Rabi`a; and Salim was the freed slave of an Ansar woman, just as the Prophet (ﷺ) had adopted Zaid as his son. It was the custom in the Pre-lslamic Period that if somebody adopted a boy, the people would call him the son of the adoptive father and he would be the latter's heir. But when Allah revealed the Divine Verses: 'Call them by (the names of) their fathers . . . your freed-slaves,' (33.5) the adopted persons were called by their fathers' names. The one whose father was not known, would be regarded as a Maula and your brother in religion. Later on Sahla bint Suhail bin `Amr Al-Quraishi Al-`Amiri-- and she was the wife of Abu- Hudhaifa bin `Utba--came to the Prophet (ﷺ) and said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! We used to consider Salim as our (adopted) son, and now Allah has revealed what you know (regarding adopted sons)." The sub-narrator then mentioned the rest of the narration."
-Sahih al-Bukhari 7:62:25


"Narrated `Abdullah bin `Umar:
We used not to call Zaid bin Haritha the freed slave of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) except Zaid bin Muhammad till the Qu'anic Verse was revealed: "Call them (adopted sons) by (the names of) their fathers. That is more than just in the Sight of Allah." (33.5)
-Sahih al-Bukhari6:60:305


'Narrated 'Aishah:
It was narrated from 'Aishah that Abu Hudhaifah bin 'Utbah bin Rabi'ah bin 'Abd Shams --who was one of those who had been present at Badr with the Messenger of Allah-- adopted Salim and married him to his brother's daughter, Hind bint Al-Walid bin 'Utbah bin Rabi'ah bin 'Abd Shams, and he was a freed slave of an Ansari woman --as the Messenger of Allah had adopted Zaid. During the Jahiliyyah, if a man adopted someone, the people would call him his son, and he would inherit from his legacy, until Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, revealed about that: 'Call them by (the names of) their fathers, that is more just with Allah. But if you know not their fathers' (names, call them) your brothers in Faith and Mawalikum (your freed slaves)." Then if a person's father's name was not known, he would be their freed slave and brother in faith.
- Sunan an-Nasa'i 3223

if someone bears your name as his surname and would inherit your property and legacy, is called your heir, what other more benefit or right does a biological child enjoy that is above this?

Friend22:


Trying to place a dichotomy between who is Allaah and who is "Yaweh" or "Jeovah" shows how (sorry to say) unread you are.

Christian Arabs specifically the Coptic Christians in Egypt use the word Allaah in their arabic Bibles same goes for other Arabs Christians in the some middle east nations like Lebanon and Syria.

Stop using the fact that Arabs Christians also refer to God as Allah to say that Muslims Allah is not a pagan god.

Allah is not Yahweh.


The generic name for God is Ilah in Arabic and it's usually preceded with 'Al' which means 'The' hence, Al-Ilah which was later contracted to mean Allah.


The Allah Christians,(whether Arabs or Hausa) pray to and worship is the Holy One of Israel, the Father of Christ the Mesaiah, The One not confined to the Kaaba, the One Who doesn't support immorality, the one whom Muhammad was not his Prophet, the one not prayed to in the mosques.

So, the name may sound the same, the One Christians worship is different.

The Arab Christians never joined in the naked worship of Allah in the Kaaba, they never did pilgrimage to the Kaaba, they never associated with the Allah of the Muslisms.

But Muhammad made us know that the pagan Allah was the same Allah his Quraysh tribe worshipped that's why he retained all the practices and only modified some.


Allah is the same as Hubal and Baal.

Islam clearly goes against the order of God that they should not set up a stone for worship

Lev.26.1 - "'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God."


Have you seen now, while Yahweh forbids bowing down to stone, Muslims bow down to the Blackstone to kiss it as part of the religious obligation during hajj.

And we were even told in the Bible how idolaters made sacred stone for Baal

2Kgs.3.2 - He did evil in the eyes of the LORD, but not as his father and mother had done. He got rid of the sacred stone of Baal that his father had made.


Actually Christians are NOT the ones who refer to Allah as an idol, it's Muslims themselves.

Every Islamic sources accept that Mohammed's grandfather Abd-Muttalib was a pagan, an idol worshipper. In fact scholars are of the opinion that because Abd-Muttalib was an idol worshipper, Muslims should not give his name to their children.

What is the name of the idol Abd-Muttalib worshipped? The idol was Hubal/Allah/Baal which is a moon god and whose logo was crescent moon and star the same logo Islam use today on the mosques and on the flags of Islamic nation

To prove his loyalty to his idol, Abd-Muttalib named one of his children after Allah, Abd-Allah(Abdallah) who Islamic source say is the father of Mohammed.

Mohammed simply continued the family business and religion and retained all the pagan practices of the worship of Allah and made only slight modifications to some like women doing tawaf naked(the modification was actually done by Abu Bakr and Mohammed didn't object):

"Narrated Abu Huraira:
On the Day of Nahr (10th of Dhul-Hijja, in the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet (ﷺ) when Abu Bakr was the leader of the pilgrims in that Hajj) Abu Bakr sent me along with other announcers to Mina to make a public announcement: "No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year and no naked person is allowed to perform the Tawaf around the Ka`ba. Then Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) sent `Ali to read out the Surat Bara'a (at-Tauba) to the people; so he made the announcement along with us on the day of Nahr in Mina: "No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year and no naked person is allowed to perform the Tawaf around the Ka`ba."
-Sahih al-Bukhari 369

And Baal/Allah/Hubal is a god of sexual immorality that is why he has promised his followers a brothel-like paradise in which sex will be the order of the day and also promised to make "young boys made eternal " available for those interested in boys.

"There will circulate among them young boys made eternal"
(QS. Al-Waaqia 56: Verse 17)


"Say, Shall I inform you of [something] better than that? For those who fear Allah will be gardens in the presence of their Lord beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide eternally, and purified spouses and approval from Allah. And Allah is Seeing of [His] servants -"
(QS. Aal-i-Imraan 3: Verse 15)


"And [for them are] fair women with large, [beautiful] eyes,"
(QS. Al-Waaqia 56: Verse 22)

Even today, all sorts of sexual harassments take place at Islamic 'holiest' site the house of Allah in which for years women are sexually harassed and some of them have started speaking out with hashtag #MosqueMeToo

""It is during the tawaf that many women experience groping, handling and grabbing, says Eltahawy, according to the responses she's heard from women. "It's very crowded. At any given moment, there are thousands of men and women [circling Kaaba at one time].""
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/02/26/588855132/-mosquemetoo-gives-muslim-women-a-voice-about-sexual-misconduct-at-mecca?t=1589006156833

Friend22:


You see one problem with those who want to " refute" Islamic positions,they so it with so much gusto and so.much confident that you think there is literally no chink in their armour of argument.
Guess what? You just failed woefully in flying colours trying to tailor make Islam to your shallow understanding.

The killing of an apostate here, is like someone who committed treason in an ISLAAMIC STATE not in a state multi religious state like Nigeria.
In Islam killing of an apostate is not done jungle justice style ,no.
It is done in accordance with lay down laws .

If you can go against the main body of Muslims and say it is okay in an ISLAAMIC STATE then the gavel falls on you.

Have you asked yourself why the American government are still prosecuting Edward Snowden and Julia Assange for treason which we all know is punishable by death?

Some of you come around sounding like an intellectual liona not knowing you are hapless mice trying to roar like lions.

weldone. Dr zakir naik apologetics claim. I actually fell for this when I was a Muslim. Treason ko, treasan ni. Nonsen.se

advocatejare:




Thanks once again. It was when I was at the point of leaving Islam that I searched for all these truth to justify my exit from the cult of falsehoods or to be able to see for myself the lies my Ustaz have told me

the lies of those ustazs is monumental. I can't even ask them anything again cos I know they will lie just to support Islam.

I guess they're not doing it intentionally though. They think Islam is the way (due to the indoctrination in them), so they're only trying to help Allah in explaining his religion in the way that it will be accepted by people.