Friend22:


What are is claims?!
I have read them and they are as watery as they come.

I have asked him series of question on this same thread let him answer them first.

Because he is a ex-muslim makes you think he is a sort of an authority in our religion?!

Let him answer those questions first.

I don't have your time. You don't have to agree with me. OK?

You are closed minded and your mission is to defend Islam even if it's crystal clear that the religion go against common sense.

Friend22:



One thing ex Muslims say to berate Muslims is the idea that they are "free" from the so called ethics and moral chains of Islam.
I hate it to break this to you:
No one is truly free in that sense ,because if you are truly free you would do as you wish without no one questioning you. Is that the case?!

This is the cheap lie some of you who leave Islam tell others.
Can you really do as you like ?
Even the way you worship in Christianity:do you do certain acts based on your whims or what you are being told by MOGs?

We all know you left because you were not
patient and knowledgeable enough to seek answers to your doubts.
You just wanted something that will massage your ego that's why you left.
Those points you listed can easily be refuted without thinking twice.

let me ask you one honest question.

Were you patient enough to get answers to your doubt about Christianity from their scholars?

Were you patient enough to get answers to your doubt about Judaism from their scholars?


Were you patient enough to get answers to your doubt about Hinduism from their scholars?

Etc

Some of us are way smarter than being indoctrinated into a religion my friend. It surprised you that we left despite the strong indoctrination and the threat of eternal hell and the bait of eternal ṣèx. You clearly don't know what we have in our head

Meekha:


I'll answer you with an analogy. Do you discard what you learn in elementary class when you transit go higher classes? No! But when you get to higher classes, you have no business solving elementary class arithmetic again. The old testament and the Judaic laws were not false. They were simply a dispensation. The Christian dispensation was meant to take over from the Judaism. Both were the ordinance of God but what is currently acceptable to God is Christianity because the coming of Christ ushered us into a new dispensation which the Jews refuse to acknowledge. I hope this helps.

noted. The comparison is flawed though, but I get your point. Thanks

I'm happy for you though, because Christianity is way better than Islam

advocatejare:



Zaid had been living with Mohammed since he was 8 years old, Mohammed was a father figure and by Arab's tradition that time, Zaid was entitled to every right Mohammed's biological children were entitled to.

Because of a single woman, Muhammad destroyed the tradition of adoption and its good privileges in the Arab world, just so that Mohammed could take over the wife of Zaid and make it legal.

If you don't see that as evil, then it's okay that means you can also do the same thing: take over the wife of someone who grew up with you and saw you as a father figure and role model.

The same Quran tell us that Mohammed had concealed the thought of marrying Zainab in his heart even before Zaid divorced her.

Muhammad was already coveting Zaid's wife. Muhammad broke the law of the true holy God that said "don't covet your neighbor's wife" instead of Allah to prove to Mohammed that he was a holy god, he proved us wrong by endorsing Mohammed's Zina of the heart and covetousness. Allah is a morally corrupt god.


Allah relegated women into a mere commodity by saying he married Zainab to Muhammad when Zaid was no longer in need of her.


"And [remember, O Muhammad], when you said to the one on whom Allah bestowed favor and you bestowed favor, Keep your wife and fear Allah, while you concealed within yourself that which Allah is to disclose. And you feared the people, while Allah has more right that you fear Him. So when Zayd had no longer any need for her, We married her to you in order that there not be upon the believers any discomfort concerning the wives of their adopted sons when they no longer have need of them. And ever is the command of Allah accomplished."
(QS. Al-Ahzaab 33: Verse 37)

Now this the proof that adopted sons were treated as biological sons before Zina made Muhammad to change the rule

"Narrated `Aisha:
(the wife of the Prophet) Abu Hudhaifa, one of those who fought the battle of Badr, with Allah's Apostle adopted Salim as his son and married his niece Hind bint Al-Wahd bin `Utba to him' and Salim was a freed slave of an Ansari woman. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) also adopted Zaid as his son. In the Prelslamic period of ignorance the custom was that, if one adopted a son, the people would call him by the name of the adopted-father whom he would inherit as well, till Allah revealed: "Call them (adopted sons) By (the names of) their fathers." (33.5)
-Sahih al-Bukhari 5:59:335


"Narrated `Aisha:
Abu Hudhaifa bin `Utba bin Rabi`a bin `Abdi Shams who had witnessed the battle of Badr along with the Prophet (ﷺ) adopted Salim as his son, to whom he married his niece, Hind bint Al-Walid bin `Utba bin Rabi`a; and Salim was the freed slave of an Ansar woman, just as the Prophet (ﷺ) had adopted Zaid as his son. It was the custom in the Pre-lslamic Period that if somebody adopted a boy, the people would call him the son of the adoptive father and he would be the latter's heir. But when Allah revealed the Divine Verses: 'Call them by (the names of) their fathers . . . your freed-slaves,' (33.5) the adopted persons were called by their fathers' names. The one whose father was not known, would be regarded as a Maula and your brother in religion. Later on Sahla bint Suhail bin `Amr Al-Quraishi Al-`Amiri-- and she was the wife of Abu- Hudhaifa bin `Utba--came to the Prophet (ﷺ) and said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! We used to consider Salim as our (adopted) son, and now Allah has revealed what you know (regarding adopted sons)." The sub-narrator then mentioned the rest of the narration."
-Sahih al-Bukhari 7:62:25


"Narrated `Abdullah bin `Umar:
We used not to call Zaid bin Haritha the freed slave of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) except Zaid bin Muhammad till the Qu'anic Verse was revealed: "Call them (adopted sons) by (the names of) their fathers. That is more than just in the Sight of Allah." (33.5)
-Sahih al-Bukhari6:60:305


'Narrated 'Aishah:
It was narrated from 'Aishah that Abu Hudhaifah bin 'Utbah bin Rabi'ah bin 'Abd Shams --who was one of those who had been present at Badr with the Messenger of Allah-- adopted Salim and married him to his brother's daughter, Hind bint Al-Walid bin 'Utbah bin Rabi'ah bin 'Abd Shams, and he was a freed slave of an Ansari woman --as the Messenger of Allah had adopted Zaid. During the Jahiliyyah, if a man adopted someone, the people would call him his son, and he would inherit from his legacy, until Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, revealed about that: 'Call them by (the names of) their fathers, that is more just with Allah. But if you know not their fathers' (names, call them) your brothers in Faith and Mawalikum (your freed slaves)." Then if a person's father's name was not known, he would be their freed slave and brother in faith.
- Sunan an-Nasa'i 3223

if someone bears your name as his surname and would inherit your property and legacy, is called your heir, what other more benefit or right does a biological child enjoy that is above this?

I don't need to read your long thesis.
The issue is ,what you Christians see as forbidden is allowed for us.
My adopted son can never be and will never be my biological son no matter the linguistic semantics you employ.
Thank God for DNA.

I know the emotional attachment and all that .
But still, he is still not your son this is what Islam is very clear on issues like this

All still emotion no rationality.

My adopted son is still an adopted son not my biological son.

So,are you saying your foster father and your father will ever be the same?

Drop your emotions and judge with your common sense God has given to you.

Xmuslim:
let me ask you one honest question.

Were you patient enough to get answers to your doubt about Christianity from their scholars?

Were you patient enough to get answers to your doubt about Judaism from their scholars?


Were you patient enough to get answers to your doubt about Hinduism from their scholars?

Etc

Some of us are way smarter than being indoctrinated into a religion my friend. It surprised you that we left despite the strong indoctrination and the threat of eternal hell and the bait of eternal ṣèx. You clearly don't know what we have in our head

Keep talking from the top of your head.

Hell is real and whosever refuses to follow the last messenger will end up there.

And again,what is bad in sex?

I want to know?
Even the pope have to acknowledge the eating food and having sex are two of the greatest divine earthly pleasure.
What is bad in sex ?

I want to know before I can further this discussion with you.

Xmuslim:
I don't have your time. You don't have to agree with me. OK?

You are closed minded and your mission is to defend Islam even if it's crystal clear that the religion go against common sense.

Since you are talking about logic, I want us to explore that logical fineness you seem to boast about.

You don't have my time because you know you have met more than your match.

But you had the time to be copying and pasting your "evidences" thinking nobody can sort out your ignorance.

Well,I will be waiting anytime you have our time.

Xmuslim:
weldone. Dr zakir naik apologetics claim. I actually fell for this when I was a Muslim. Treason ko, treasan ni. Nonsen.se

You said let's use logic and I was using the same logical foundation you were trying to use against us but it does not sell abi?!
Ok.I understand.
Any logic that does not go inline with logical premise is flawed.

Friend22:


I.don't need to read your lond thesis.

You don't need to, because the truth hurts and you know that what I've written is the truth. So keep running from it

The issue is ,what you Christians see as forbidden is allowed for us.

It's allowed to you because of Muhammad's uncontrollable appetite for sex and for women.

Tell me the reason why he stopped the restriction on marrying the wives of their adopted sons if not because he wanted to marry Zainab the wife of Zaid.

My adopted son can never be and will never be my biological son no matter the linguistic semantics you employ.
Thank God for DNA.

But morality should tell you that it's wrong to marry the wife of a man who had started living with you since the age of 8 years, he answered your name as "son of Muhammad ", you married your cousin out to him, you financed the wedding, you didn't talk to your cousin and settle the rift she had with her husband, even when you advised your adopted son, we are told that when you were giving the advice you had already concealed it in your heart that you would marry his wife and you eventually did and even threw the biggest party for her wedding, biggest than the one you did for your previous wives and you call yourself a religious leader.

May I never be like such a person.

Such a person can't be a Prophet of a true God but that of an immoral idol

Meekha:


Your best bet is your ideal and not necessarily the truth. While agree with you that religion is a problem, I can't agree that the idea of connecting to God via a worship system is necessarily wrong.

I respect your opinion. We can't all be the same

Friend22:


Keep talking from the top of your head.

Hell is real and whosever refuses to follow the last messenger will end up there.

And again,what is bad in sex?

I want to know?
Even the pope have to acknowledge the eating food and having sex are two of the greatest divine earthly pleasure.
What is bad in sex ?

I want to know before I can further this discussion with you.

you didn't answer my question.
Ṣex is not bad but why is it that Christian god didn't lure Christian with sex but Allah lured with it.

But again focus on my question and stop your ad hominem fallacy.

And let me burst your bubble. Hell is not real. Deal with it . Common sense should tell you that if there is a God that's self sufficient, eternal hell fire will never be the punishment for those that doesn't believe in him for lack of evidence.

Unless your god is irrational and wicked.

Xmuslim:
I respect your opinion. We can't all be the same

You earned my respect too boss. Peace!

Friend22:


You see the problem with some of you.
You just want us to answer yes or no to questions that needs clarification before answering them.
How can you impose your interpretation on us and expect any rational Muslim to just accept?
How?

Is like asking you can a Christian marry a woman?

It will be very foolish of you to say yes without seeking to understand the question properly, because if you do,you are already saying marrying one's mother, sister,aunts and daughters since they are women.
This is the trap you are setting for us and I can see clearly through it.

No one is asking you here to answer a 'Yes' or 'No'. That is only a product of your imagination.

No one forces you here to answer in one way or the other. Giving that excuse is simply an escape route from the real issue.

Provide your position. You can even do it on part 1, 2 , 3 and so on. But truth be told, you guys have not been able to present clear explanations on the positions you hold. None. Fortunately Islamic positions are all over the internet. We are no longer live in the 7th 8th or 9th centuries where things were not openly available.

Unless you want to live your life as a Moslem based on your PERSONAL IDEALS, you must realise by now that Islam runs on the Koran, hadith and scholars position on these.

So, why don't you guys stop hiding and come out from your face masks and show us your true selves.

advocatejare:


Stop using the fact that Arabs Christians also refer to God as Allah to say that Muslims Allah is not a pagan god.

Allah is not Yahweh.


The generic name for God is Ilah in Arabic and it's usually preceded with 'Al' which means 'The' hence, Al-Ilah which was later contracted to mean Allah.


The Allah Christians,(whether Arabs or Hausa) pray to and worship is the Holy One of Israel, the Father of Christ the Mesaiah, The One not confined to the Kaaba, the One Who doesn't support immorality, the one whom Muhammad was not his Prophet, the one not prayed to in the mosques.

So, the name may sound the same, the One Christians worship is different.

The Arab Christians never joined in the naked worship of Allah in the Kaaba, they never did pilgrimage to the Kaaba, they never associated with the Allah of the Muslisms.

But Muhammad made us know that the pagan Allah was the same Allah his Quraysh tribe worshipped that's why he retained all the practices and only modified some.


Allah is the same as Hubal and Baal.

Islam clearly goes against the order of God that they should not set up a stone for worship

Lev.26.1 - "'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God."


Have you seen now, while Yahweh forbids bowing down to stone, Muslims bow down to the Blackstone to kiss it as part of the religious obligation during hajj.

And we were even told in the Bible how idolaters made sacred stone for Baal

2Kgs.3.2 - He did evil in the eyes of the LORD, but not as his father and mother had done. He got rid of the sacred stone of Baal that his father had made.


Actually Christians are NOT the ones who refer to Allah as an idol, it's Muslims themselves.

Every Islamic sources accept that Mohammed's grandfather Abd-Muttalib was a pagan, an idol worshipper. In fact scholars are of the opinion that because Abd-Muttalib was an idol worshipper, Muslims should not give his name to their children.

What is the name of the idol Abd-Muttalib worshipped? The idol was Hubal/Allah/Baal which is a moon god and whose logo was crescent moon and star the same logo Islam use today on the mosques and on the flags of Islamic nation

To prove his loyalty to his idol, Abd-Muttalib named one of his children after Allah, Abd-Allah(Abdallah) who Islamic source say is the father of Mohammed.

Mohammed simply continued the family business and religion and retained all the pagan practices of the worship of Allah and made only slight modifications to some like women doing tawaf naked(the modification was actually done by Abu Bakr and Mohammed didn't object):

"Narrated Abu Huraira:
On the Day of Nahr (10th of Dhul-Hijja, in the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet (ﷺ) when Abu Bakr was the leader of the pilgrims in that Hajj) Abu Bakr sent me along with other announcers to Mina to make a public announcement: "No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year and no naked person is allowed to perform the Tawaf around the Ka`ba. Then Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) sent `Ali to read out the Surat Bara'a (at-Tauba) to the people; so he made the announcement along with us on the day of Nahr in Mina: "No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year and no naked person is allowed to perform the Tawaf around the Ka`ba."
-Sahih al-Bukhari 369

And Baal/Allah/Hubal is a god of sexual immorality that is why he has promised his followers a brothel-like paradise in which sex will be the order of the day and also promised to make "young boys made eternal " available for those interested in boys.

"There will circulate among them young boys made eternal"
(QS. Al-Waaqia 56: Verse 17)


"Say, Shall I inform you of [something] better than that? For those who fear Allah will be gardens in the presence of their Lord beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide eternally, and purified spouses and approval from Allah. And Allah is Seeing of [His] servants -"
(QS. Aal-i-Imraan 3: Verse 15)


"And [for them are] fair women with large, [beautiful] eyes,"
(QS. Al-Waaqia 56: Verse 22)

Even today, all sorts of sexual harassments take place at Islamic 'holiest' site the house of Allah in which for years women are sexually harassed and some of them have started speaking out with hashtag #MosqueMeToo

""It is during the tawaf that many women experience groping, handling and grabbing, says Eltahawy, according to the responses she's heard from women. "It's very crowded. At any given moment, there are thousands of men and women [circling Kaaba at one time].""
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/02/26/588855132/-mosquemetoo-gives-muslim-women-a-voice-about-sexual-misconduct-at-mecca?t=1589006156833

Friend22 so despite your initial gragra, you can be humbled like this?

Come and defend this na

You can call Antichristian for help

advocatejare:

You don't need to, because the truth hurts and you know that what I've written is the truth. So keep running from it



It's allowed to you because of Muhammad's uncontrollable appetite for sex and for women.

Tell me the reason why he stopped the restriction on marrying the wives of their adopted sons if not because he wanted to marry Zainab the wife of Zaid.



But morality should tell you that it's wrong to marry the wife of a man who had started living with you since the age of 8 years, he answered your name as "son of Muhammad ", you married your cousin out to him, you financed the wedding, you didn't talk to your cousin and settle the rift she had with her husband, even when you advised your adopted son, we are told that when you were giving the advice you had already concealed it in your heart that you would marry his wife and you eventually did and even threw the biggest party for her wedding, biggest than the one you did for your previous wives and you call yourself a religious leader.

May I never be like such a person.

Such a person can't be a Prophet of a true God but that of an immoral idol

Friend22 I'm still waiting for your response o

You can call Antichristian for help

advocatejare:


Friend22 so despite your initial gragra, you can be humbled like this?

Come and defend this na

You can call Antichristian for help

Humbled?
Your rants?this what you call been humbled?
What are the issue?
Outline them let's discuss because i don't have the luxury to be running here and there without any outlined points.

advocatejare:


Friend22 so despite your initial gragra, you can be humbled like this?

Come and defend this na

You can call Antichristian for help

You see why I don't like arguing with people like you, is you alway claim to know whereas you know nothing..

Are we arguing aboutnthe word "Allaah?''
Are we arguing about sex in Paradise?
Which one ?

Stop acting confused.

Pick one.

Friend22:


You see why I don't like arguing with people like you, is you alway claim to know whereas you know nothing..

Are we arguing aboutnthe word "Allaah?''
Are we arguing about sex in Paradise?
Which one ?

Stop acting confused.

Pick one.

We're talking about how Allah is an idol of Quraysh and how Muhammad stole the wife of his adopted son

Friend22:


Humbled?
Your rants?this what you call been humbled?
What are the issue?
Outline them let's discuss because i don't have the luxury to be running here and there without any outlined points.

Outline what, go and check my response to your post yesterday. You were running mouth until I showed you proof that Islam is idolatry and stole many things from Hinduism. I attached pictoral evidence, but you were so dazed that you ran away

advocatejare:


We're talking about how Allah is an idol of Quraysh and how Muhammad stole the wife of his adopted son

Ok.
Let's agree for the sake of argument that you are talking some sense.

Firstly,can you quote any evidence that Allaah is an idol of the Quraysh?
I want to see that evidence.
Or,as usual you concocted this idea from your brain which is very likely.
I want you to show me (us) any carving image or wood,iron or sculpture of Allaah as an idol worshiped by the Quraysh.
We know the Arabs of Quraysh used to worship 360 gods with their carving images in the kaa'abah before Islam wiped them out and none was named Allaah because they knew Allaah was the the supreme eternal being with no image,but you who never really understood Islam ,you are here claiming claims.

Howeve,I still need that evidence to shut me up.

Secondly, you use the word "stole ," to depict the marriage of our prophet to his DIVORCED,note the underlined word here "divorced" adopted son's wife?

How can somebody possibly steal what the owner is no longer in need of?
How?

So,if you divorce your wife and your friend marries her, it means your friend stole the woman you divorced?
Is this even logical to being with?
How do you reason?!


For the sake of clarity let me give you a little background to this.
Was Zayd the son of the prophet's relation?No
;rather he was a freed slave of the prophet whom he later took in as his adopted son and was fondly called Zayd bin Muhammad by others,but there was a instruction which quashed such entitlements cited in the Qur'an for all Muslims;when Allaah said(the interpretation of the meaning):
"...And He has not made your adopted sons your [true] sons. That is [merely] your saying by your mouths, but Allah says the truth, and He guides to the [right] way.} [Quran 33:4]

Even DNA shows your adopted son is still not your son.
As Allah said ,it is merely saying by your mouths not Allaah's.

And Allaah also said (interpretation of the meaning) to dispel the stereotype that an adopted son is a biological son He said:"
Call them by [the names of] their fathers; it is more just in the sight of Allah. But if you do not know their fathers - then they are [still] your brothers in religion and those entrusted to you. And there is no blame upon you for that in which you have erred but [only for] what your hearts intended. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.} [Quran 33:5

The marriage of Zayd bin Haarith and Zaynab bint Jahsh was that of two claases.
A woman from a high born status and Zaid ibn Harith a freed slave ;and you know compatibility will always crop up here.

Long story short,after being married for a year or more Zayd felt he was no longer in need of his wife Zaynab bint Jahsh whom was instructed by the prophet to marry Zayd before.

As it was now obvious she has now become a divorcee and the prophet was instructed to marry her in order to put an end to the stereotype that an adopted son's DIVORCED wife was prohibited since he as just the son of another man not even a blood relation.

To add to it,the foregoing verse states in one line that:"
then they are [still] your brothers in religion and those entrusted to you."
In other words,Zayd was just a brother in the religion to the prophet not the prophet's blood brother.
Because there is a universal maxim observe by we Muslims which is, a man from another tribe becomes your brother in faith no matter the social,cultural or economic background.
It is affirmed by this verse below:
"The believers are but brothers, so make settlement between your brothers. And fear Allah that you may receive mercy.} "[Quran 49:10]


The issue here is,you want to impose your ever erratic standards to judge Islam and whereby we can just say "yes sir" to every beautiful nonsense you say.

If after all these explanation you are still hell bent on holding on to your jaundice position be my guess.

I think I have explained all that needs to be explained

Friend22:

Ok.
Let's agree for the sake of argument that you are talking some sense.

Firstly,can you quote any evidence that Allaah is an idol of the Quraysh?
I want to see that evidence.
Or,as usual you concocted this idea from your brain which is very likely.
I want you to show me (us) any carving image or wood,iron or sculpture of Allaah as an idol worshiped by the Quraysh.
We know the Arabs of Quraysh used to worship 360 gods with their carving images in the kaa'abah before Islam wiped them out and none was named Allaah because they knew Allaah was the the supreme eternal being with no image,but you who never really understood Islam ,you

Why was Mohamed's father name Abdullah?

Bearing in mind that Islam claims that the revelation about Allah came to Mohamed how do we explain the fact that his father, according to Islamic sources, had a name that had the god Lah (Al-Lah) attached to it?

It can only be because the god Lah (Al-Lah) was already known to his people.

Moslems may claim that even though they knew Allah the people had added the worship of other gods.

Mohamed did not seem to know better in the early years of his prophet hood. He initially used Ar-Rahman, appealed to Allat and al-'Uzza, and Manat before finally settling for Allah.

So, we can say then that Mohamed never came to REVEAL Allah to the people. Maybe he only stressed that he was to be regarded as the only god.

Mohamed's father's name clearly shows that the god Lah was known by his people before Mohamed came to preach him.

How he was known and worshipped is what Moslems have to tell us so we can see if it was in any way different from what Mohamed presented. That is what will show us whether it was a REFINED idolatrous practice that Mohamed presented or something completely new.

Friend22:


Secondly, you use the word "stole ," to depict the marriage of our prophet to his DIVORCED,note the underlined word here "divorced" adopted son's wife?

How can somebody possibly steal what the owner is no longer in need of?
How?

So,if you divorce your wife and your friend marries her, it means your friend stole the woman you divorced?
Is this even logical to being with?
How do you reason?!

As it was now obvious she has now become a divorcee and the prophet was instructed to marry her in order to put an end to the stereotype that an adopted son's DIVORCED wife was prohibited since he as just the son of another man not even a blood relation.

The issue here is,you want to impose your ever erratic standards to judge Islam and whereby we can just say "yes sir" to every beautiful nonsense you say.

If after all these explanation you are still hell bent on holding on to your jaundice position be my guess.

I think I have explained all that needs to be explained

On the issue of Mohamed's marriage to his adopted son , note this:

"And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor: Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light, and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him. But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed. There is no harm in the Prophet doing that which Allah has ordained for him; such has been the course of Allah with respect to those who have gone before; and the command of Allah is a decree that is made absolute" - S. 33:37-38 Shakir

Mohamed was hiding within himself what Allah supposedly was to bring to light, namely that Mohamed was to marry his adopted son’s wife. This means that even before the divorce occurred Allah had already caused Mohamed to desire a married woman and that it was Allah who caused Zaid to divorce his wife so that Mohamed could then marry her!

Does Allah have morals? If he made the whole setup come about where is his morality?

Was it right for Mohamed to have DESIRED the wife of another person EVEN before she was divorced? That is not considered reprehensible in Islam?
Of all the women in the world is it the wife of an adopted son that a man should want to go for?

And for the marriage to become 'LEGAL' adoption then had to be cancelled in Islam? All for a prophet?

We are talking of a prophet and a man who has other wives. Are we to expect lower moral standards from a Prophet?

sagenaija:

On the issue of Mohamed's marriage to his adopted son , note this:

"And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor: Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light, and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him. But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed. There is no harm in the Prophet doing that which Allah has ordained for him; such has been the course of Allah with respect to those who have gone before; and the command of Allah is a decree that is made absolute" - S. 33:37-38 Shakir

Mohamed was hiding within himself what Allah supposedly was to bring to light, namely that Mohamed was to marry his adopted son’s wife. This means that even before the divorce occurred Allah had already caused Mohamed to desire a married woman and that it was Allah who caused Zaid to divorce his wife so that Mohamed could then marry her!

Does Allah have morals? If he made the whole setup come about where is his morality?

Was it right for Mohamed to have DESIRED the wife of another person EVEN before she was divorced? That is not considered reprehensible in Islam?
Of all the women in the world is it the wife of an adopted son that a man should want to go for?

And for the marriage to become 'LEGAL' adoption then had to be cancelled in Islam? All for a prophet?

We are talking of a prophet and a man who has other wives. Are we to expect lower moral standards from a Prophet?

May God save us from demons claiming they're the Almighty God!

Friend22:

Ok.
Let's agree for the sake of argument that you are talking some sense.

Firstly,can you quote any evidence that Allaah is an idol of the Quraysh?
I want to see that evidence.

In case you didn't see it before. Here it is.

Every Islamic sources accept that Mohammed's grandfather Abd-Muttalib was a pagan, an idol worshipper. In fact scholars are of the opinion that because Abd-Muttalib was an idol worshipper, Muslims should not give his name to their children.

What is the name of the idol Abd-Muttalib worshipped? The idol was Hubal/Allah/Baal which is a moon god and whose logo was crescent moon and star the same logo Islam use today on the mosques and on the flags of Islamic nation

Also, in the Sira we were told about how Abdulmuttalib the pagan almost sacrificed Abdullah to Allah his idol.
Check it out here:

https://questionsonislam.com/question/how-did-incident-prophets-father-abdullah-being-vowed-be-sacrificed-take-place

The obedient children immediately followed their father’s command. Each of them pulled an arrow, and after they wrote their own name on it, they handed it to their father. Abdulmuttalib collected all of the arrows and went straight towards the Kaa’ba. [b]The method of resolving this situation had already been explained: An arrow would be drawn by the Hubal statue, [/b]and whosever name was drawn would be the one to be sacrificed…"

That's to prove to you that Allah is Hubal




To prove his loyalty to his idol, Abd-Muttalib named one of his children after Allah, Abd-Allah(Abdallah) who Islamic source say is the father of Mohammed.

I want you to show me (us) any carving image or wood,iron or sculpture of Allaah as an idol worshiped by the Quraysh.

Check below for the image of Hubal/Allah/Baal : A crescent moon with star that you have at the top of your mosques today.

Secondly, you use the word "stole ," to depict the marriage of our prophet to his DIVORCED,note the underlined word here "divorced" adopted son's wife?

But morality should tell you that it's wrong to marry the wife of a man who had started living with you since the age of 8 years, he answered your name as "son of Muhammad ", you married your cousin out to him, you financed the wedding, you didn't talk to your cousin and settle the rift she had with her husband, even when you advised your adopted son, we are told that when you were giving the advice you had already concealed it in your heart that you would marry his wife and you eventually did and even threw the biggest party for her wedding, biggest than the one you did for your previous wives and you call yourself a religious leader.

May I never be like such a person.

Such a person can't be a Prophet of a true God but that of an immoral idol

So,if you divorce your wife and your friend marries her, it means your friend stole the woman you divorced?
Is this even logical to being with?
How do you reason?!

If you divorce your wife and your adopted father who is a religious leader marries her and adjusted pre existing law to suit his shameless act, then your adopted father is a shameless person.

"...And He has not made your adopted sons your [true] sons. That is [merely] your saying by your mouths, but Allah says the truth, and He guides to the [right] way.} [Quran 33:4]

What was the reason why the adoption law was change apart from the fact that Muhammad wanted to justify marrying the wife of Zaid his adopted son?

The marriage of Zayd bin Haarith and Zaynab bint Jahsh was that of two claases.
A woman from a high born status and Zaid ibn Harith a freed slave ;and you know compatibility will always crop up here.

So Allah and Muhammad were sleeping when Zaid and Zainab were getting married in the first place?

Long story short,after being married for a year or more Zayd felt he was no longer in need of his wife Zaynab bint Jahsh whom was instructed by the prophet to marry Zayd before.

So women are mere items that someone can just wake up for no reason and say he's no longer in need of her.

And your religious leader muhammad rather than genuinely helping them to remain together, the same way he stopped Ali from marrying another wife after Fatima his daughter, muhammad was rather conceiving how to take over Zainab from Zaid.

sagenaija:

On the issue of Mohamed's marriage to his adopted son , note this:

"And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor: Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light, and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him. But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed. There is no harm in the Prophet doing that which Allah has ordained for him; such has been the course of Allah with respect to those who have gone before; and the command of Allah is a decree that is made absolute" - S. 33:37-38 Shakir

Mohamed was hiding within himself what Allah supposedly was to bring to light, namely that Mohamed was to marry his adopted son’s wife. This means that even before the divorce occurred Allah had already caused Mohamed to desire a married woman and that it was Allah who caused Zaid to divorce his wife so that Mohamed could then marry her!

Does Allah have morals? If he made the whole setup come about where is his morality?

Was it right for Mohamed to have DESIRED the wife of another person EVEN before she was divorced? That is not considered reprehensible in Islam?
Of all the women in the world is it the wife of an adopted son that a man should want to go for?

And for the marriage to become 'LEGAL' adoption then had to be cancelled in Islam? All for a prophet?

We are talking of a prophet and a man who has other wives. Are we to expect lower moral standards from a Prophet?

You see the problem here again, you still read the translation and you are still imposing your weak understanding on a matter which you never sought any explanation for.


If your dubious insinuation were to be taken seriously ,it falls short of one thing.
Zaynab bint Jahsh was a daugther of the prophet's paternal aunt whom he grow up knowing.
Ask your deluded selves why the prophet did not desire her then when she was an unmarried lady? Why?

Mind you,a married lady is less attractive than an unmarried woman how much more someone you grew up knowing and even advised to marry your adopted son.

One of the scholars of Islam Ibn Arabi said that what the prophet concealed was not the desire for his adopted son to divorce Zaynab so he could marry her,but after Zayd had divorcee her ...hence the beginihg part of the verse wherein Allah said(the interpretation of the meaning): "
"And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor: Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah"

How come that after advising Zayd to keep his wife he still exercised the right of divorce upon her and in the alternative the prophet saw that this woman would be left alone uncatered for hence desired to marry her.
Note that i have already explained how it is not wrong to marry an adopted son's divorced wife according to Islamic standard.

Now,what is wrong?
If he was sexually driven like you lots love to claim,how come he left the beautiful virgins available then, and desired a divorcee?

Ask yourselves that.

worshippedhor=advocatejare post=94573418]
In case you didn't see it before. Here it is.

Every Islamic sources accept that Mohammed's grandfather Abd-Muttalib was a pagan, an idol worshipper. In fact scholars are of the opinion that because Abd-Muttalib was an idol worshipper, Muslims should not give his name to their children.

What is the name of the idol Abd-Muttalib worshipped? The idol was Hubal/Allah/Baal which is a moon god and whose logo was crescent moon and star the same logo Islam use today on the mosques and on the flags of Islamic nation

Also, in the Sira we were told about how Abdulmuttalib the pagan almost sacrificed Abdullah to Allah his idol.
Check it out here:

https://questionsonislam.com/question/how-did-incident-prophets-father-abdullah-being-vowed-be-sacrificed-take-place

The obedient children immediately followed their father’s command. Each of them pulled an arrow, and after they wrote their own name on it, they handed it to their father. Abdulmuttalib collected all of the arrows and went straight towards the Kaa’ba. [b]The method of resolving this situation had already been explained: An arrow would be drawn by the Hubal statue, [/b]and whosever name was drawn would be the one to be sacrificed…"

That's to prove to you that Allah is Hubal




To prove his loyalty to his idol, Abd-Muttalib named one of his children after Allah, Abd-Allah(Abdallah) who Islamic source say is the father of Mohammed.



Check below for the image of Hubal/Allah/Baal : A crescent moon with star that you have at the top of your mosques today.






But morality should tell you that it's wrong to marry the wife of a man who had started living with you since the age of 8 years, he answered your name as "son of Muhammad ", you married your cousin out to him, you financed the wedding, you didn't talk to your cousin and settle the rift she had with her husband, even when you advised your adopted son, we are told that when you were giving the advice you had already concealed it in your heart that you would marry his wife and you eventually did and even threw the biggest party for her wedding, biggest than the one you did for your previous wives and you call yourself a religious leader.

May I never be like such a person.

Such a person can't be a Prophet of a true God but that of an immoral idol




If you divorce your wife and your adopted father who is a religious leader marries her and adjusted pre existing law to suit his shameless act, then your adopted father is a shameless person.



What was the reason why the adoption law was change apart from the fact that Muhammad wanted to justify marrying the wife of Zaid his adopted son?






So Allah and Muhammad were sleeping when Zaid and Zainab were getting married in the first place?


So women are mere items that someone can just wake up for no reason and say he's no longer in need of her.

And your religious leader muhammad rather than genuinely helping them to remain together, the same way he stopped Ali from marrying another wife after Fatima his daughter, muhammad was rather conceiving how to take over Zainab from Zaid.
[/quote]

Ignorance just dey chop this one brain cells.

He kept repeating the same lies like a badly programmed Robot.

Where is "Allaah" who has a carving image he was unable to show us ,he just loves and enjoys the thrill that comes with the argument and the undeserved attention I am giving him.

The Arabs whom are idol worshippers recognized Allaah as the supreme being without any image, but they rather worshipped other idols seeking their aid to get to Allah like you Christians worship Jesus to get to God in your prayers.

The biggest Idolators today are Christians, who worship Jesus and also call him God.
You have images of Jesus here and there claiming you are better than idol worshippers whereas you do the same thing, but in a rather different way.

I challenge you and any Christian to go to any Arab country and ask for their history you won't find a single shred of evidence that says Allaah is an idol.
I challenge you to do that!

Abdmutallib you kept using as an evidence to establish your point is totally off it.
Abdulmutallib the prophet's grand father was an idol worshipper same was the prophet's father and his uncle Abu Talib who took care of him after his grand father's demise.
Do you even know these names I am mentioning and how they died?
Do you know that Abu Talib the prophet's uncle refused to accept to worship Allah before his death while he died an Idolator?
Do you know these things?
You think you can tell us our religjoon by browsing through the net cherry picking points that suits your contrived and misguided understanding.
Tueh!

If indeed,as you claim,Allaah is/was an idol ask yourself why would prophet Muhammad be calling them (the arabs)to worship one "idol" so to speak, out of the multiplicities of idols they had.
Why?
Does it make sense to you?
People are doing idol worship whereas your message is to tell them to worship another bigger *idol* and they are fighting you for it?!
Does this not sound foolish?!
According to your warped up side down so called logic.

This was the main chasm between prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him)/and his people.

Islam detest every form of imagery how much more idol worship,but your churches are like the epicenters of images of Jesus on the cross of Calvary.

For the last time, don't try to lecture me about Islam when I can easily pick holes in your religion.

Friend22

If indeed,as you claim,Allaah is/was an idol ask yourself why would prophet Muhammad be calling them (the arabs)to worship one "idol" so to speak, out of the multiplicities of idols they had.
Why?

Because that one idol was the one his family the Quraysh worshipped.

Because his pagan grandfather named his father Abdullah(Abd Allah) after that one idol

Because that one idol saved his father's life and ransomed it for 100 camels.

Because that one idol was the chief of the 360 idols in the Kaaba

Because that one idol is Hubal/Allah/Baal

Islam detest every form of imagery

If your assertion is true, what's the image of Hubal (crescent moon and star) doing at the top of your mosques?
Check the first image below.

Friend22:

Now,what is wrong?
If he was sexually driven like you lots love to claim,how come he left the beautiful virgins available then, and desired a divorcee?

Ask yourselves that.

Mohamed had no inhibitions as to which woman to go for whether married or not. Otherwise why would he and his band of caravan raiders and fighters rape women even while their husbands were still alive?

Doesn't your books tell us that even the Moslem women are allowed to give themselves to Mohamed for sex?

This Zaid/Zainab set up by Allah aka Mohamed was simply to give a somewhat neat face to a very bad issue.

In the verse I quoted did you notice that at first Mohamed "feared men" which suggests that his conscience wrestled with the idea and he knew what the general standard of morality of the people was even as at then.

Notice again what Allah said:
"We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them"
How do you reconcile this with the fact that Allah eventually got rid of adoption? Why talk about 'no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons' when you as Allah would come to say that you never wanted adoption in the first place?

Where is the decency and ethics of Allah?

Only the Moslem mind can wrap itself round these inconsistencies and accept the dishonorable as good and right.

sagenaija:

Mohamed had no inhibitions as to which woman to go for whether married or not. Otherwise why would he and his band of caravan raiders and fighters rape women even while their husbands were still alive?

Doesn't your books tell us that even the Moslem women are allowed to give themselves to Mohamed for sex?

This Zaid/Zainab set up by Allah aka Mohamed was simply to give a somewhat neat face to a very bad issue.

In the verse I quoted did you notice that at first Mohamed "feared men" which suggests that his conscience wrestled with the idea and he knew what the general standard of morality of the people was even as at then.

Notice again what Allah said:
"We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them"
How do you reconcile this with the fact that Allah eventually got rid of adoption? Why talk about 'no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons' when you as Allah would come to say that you never wanted adoption in the first place?

Where is the decency and ethics of Allah?

Only the Moslem mind can wrap itself round these inconsistencies and accept the dishonorable as good and right.

Lol....comedians.

advocatejare:
Friend22


Because that one idol was the one his family the Quraysh worshipped.

Because his pagan grandfather named his father Abdullah(Abd Allah) after that one idol

Because that one idol saved his father's life and ransomed it for 100 camels.

Because that one idol was the chief of the 360 idols in the Kaaba

Because that one idol is Hubal/Allah/Baal

If your assertion is true, what's the image of Hubal (crescent moon and star) doing at the top of your mosques?
Check the first image below.

Another comic relief.

Keep yapping like a nosiemaker.

Friend22:


Another comic relief.

Keep yapping like a nosiemaker.

The truth is setting your ass on fire

Friend22:


Lol....comedians.

He runs!

It is obvious that many of you Moslems are not really interested in an objective view of your prophet and religion.

Islam truly subjugates the adherents starting with their brains. As Islam means 'SURRENDER', that surrender starts from the brain and extends to other outward expressions.

Look at this:
It was ok for women to give themselves to Mohamed!

Narrated Aisha:
I used to LOOK DOWN upon those ladies who had given themselves to Allah's Apostle and I used to say, "Can a lady give herself (to a man)?" But when Allah revealed: "You (O Muhammad) can postpone whom you will of them, and you may receive any of them whom you will; and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside." (33.51) I said (to the Prophet), "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 311)

Will you say that this is a man who had inhibitions as to which woman to have for sex?
And Allah approved of all these when even Aisha, a human, had reservations?

advocatejare:


The truth is setting your ass on fire

I gave you guys a logical refutation of your inconsistencies you are here grappling at straws.