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Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by true2god: 8:52am On Oct 14, 2020 |
Empiree:Don't be angry bro. Mohammed is not Buhari that we we discuss and move on. New generation of Muslims are being taught the life of Mohammed hence it is reasonable to discuss both the good and the ugly side of him. Empiree:No Sir! We have a chain of narration that attested to the fact that Aisha was 6 when mohammed married her and was 9 when mohammed started sleeping with her while mohammed was 54 years old. Is it that you no longer believe in 'chains of narrations' or you are just embarrased that your prophet can stoop so low? (See the following Islamic references that didnt support your wrong claim: Sahih Bukhari 3:48:805, Sahih Bukhari 3:48:829, Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236, Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64, Sahih Bukhari 7:62:88, Sahih Bukhari 6:60:274) Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old. Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236 Empiree:Aisha is not my daughter but it is a child-abuse for a 54-year old man to sleep with a 9-year old girl. Mohammed also called himself the best example for mankind. Empiree:I am not a catholic and catholic priests do not call themselves perfect conduct for emulation (which Mohammed did call himself). 1 Like |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by Empiree: 2:33pm On Oct 14, 2020 |
Rubbish! Is this Hadith of the prophet himself?. Guy, I'm not interested in unnecessary arguments. Marriage of Aisha was historical not RELIGION. So story is bound to have inaccuracies. We have evidences otherwise. So get over this trash. You are talking as if you care so much about 6yr old Aisha. Go and worry about corruption in churches. Don't let me bombard you with references. I know that no amount of proofs given to you, you will return here in a week and still speak the same trash again. true2god: |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by true2god: 2:54pm On Oct 14, 2020 |
Empiree:Provide your counter evidence or keep kwayet! I have given you numerous hadith, your own Islamic source, that proved that Mohammed married a baby and slept with her. For that fact that you don't like what you were told your prophet did doesn't make it false. 2 Likes |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by Empiree: 3:11pm On Oct 14, 2020 |
true2god:First of all, why is it true2god in 21 century is the one having problem with Aisha's marriage to the prophet?. Show us evidence in history where anyone opposed to Aisha's marriage to the prophet or accused prophet of marrying a "child"?. Please provide proof. We need precedent for your claim. If you can not find proof that anyone including prophet's archenemies condemned the prophet for marrying a child, then whatever you say in modern time is irrelevant. This is your first assignment bcuz I know it is a waste of time giving you evidences. Here is my question again. Provide evidence that people in the time of the prophet muhammad (SAW) opposed to their union?. If there was no opposition and you can provide evidence, then, there is nothing to talk about. But if you think there were people that opposed to their marriage because Aisha (ra) was "underage", then bring your proof. |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by true2god: 4:41pm On Oct 14, 2020 |
Empiree:You have shifted the goal post from denial (of the age of Aisha) to for me to provide proof that the people of Mohammed's time were against the union. This is an irrational request because you are trying to shift the focus of the discussion. The buttomline is that your own authentic hadith (sahih Muslim and sahih bukhari) recorded that Aisha was 6 years when Mohammed married her but, being so merciful, started having sex with Aisha when Aisha became a girl of 9. Even if the people of Mohammed's time kept quiet, which I doubt, that doesn't make it right or moral. Our morality and human conscience teach us that a man of 54 years having sex with a girl of 9 is immoral and ungodly. Mohammed should have known better because he called himself the prophet of allah. 2 Likes |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by Empiree: 4:54pm On Oct 14, 2020 |
Bros, my question is relevant and valid to this topic. Provide a reference for rejection of their union at that time. It is a very simple question. I have more questions but only one question so far makes you shiver. I'm giving you a second chance to give me answer. Since you like to dig into our text then give us evidence that people at the time opposed their marriage based on Aisha's age?. If you don't have answer just tell me so I can help you further true2god: |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by true2god: 7:14pm On Oct 14, 2020 |
Empiree:Empire I will e-slap you ooo. Why are defending Pedophillia in the name of religion? |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by Empiree: 8:12pm On Oct 14, 2020 |
true2god:Is this your escape route just because you can not answer my question?. It is a very simple question. Why do you think you wanna condemn marriage btw Aisha (ra) and the prophet(saw) despite being taught many times over the years?. You think I am here to waste my time knowing who you are?. Anyways, prophet Muhammad recognized 6 and 9yr old as a child. It was impossible that he would marry a child who definitely had not reach age of puberty when he said these words: Prayer (Kitab Al-Salat) Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: Command your children to pray when they become seven years old, and beat them for it (prayer) when they become ten years old; and arrange their beds (to sleep) separately. Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 495 In-book reference : Book 2, Hadith 105 English translation : Book 2, Hadith 495 So question is, had Aisha rechead age of puberty at 6 or 9?. Answer is no. She was considered a child even at the time. So how would prophet married a girl before puberty?. Use your sense. Hadith you quoted is historical not wahy (revelation). In the Quran, God addressed wives of the prophet as WOMEN. A 6 or 9 yr old at the time was not a woman. We also read history that Aisha went to the first battle of Badr before she married the prophet(sw) and rule of thumb was that no one under the age of 15 should accompanied men to the battle. She married the prophet(SAW) after the battle and after Hijra. The Battle of badr was 2 years after hijrah and battle of uhud was 3 years after hijrah. All these are documented in Sahih Bukhari. I know you won't see this because of your selfish interest. These short articles should help you out and stop quoting solitary hadith to justify your illusion. Do sincere research and stop being a nuisance. THere are several researches on the internet to learn from. https://medium.com/@talalrafi/was-aisha-9-years-old-when-she-married-the-prophet-muhammad 20ae7516e428#:~:text=Which%20means%20she%20was%20over,in%20looking%20after%20the%20wounded. https://yaqeeninstitute.org/arnold-yasin-mol/aisha-ra-the-case-for-an-older-age-in-sunni-hadith-scholarship |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by true2god: 2:07pm On Oct 15, 2020 |
Empiree:Is it that you no longer believe in Islamic chains of narrations? Is this that sahih Bukhari is no longer sahih? Is it that the hadith below are weak or fabricated? Sahih Bukhari 3:48:805, Sahih Bukhari 3:48:829, Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236, Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64, Sahih Bukhari 7:62:88, Sahih Bukhari 6:60:274) Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old. Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236 On a side bar, quran 65:4 also talked about marriage and divorce of girl who never had their first menstrual cycle, that is yet to attain puberty. Do you also condemn quran 65:4 as weak or fabricated ayah? 2 Likes |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by Empiree: 6:26pm On Oct 15, 2020 |
Who is Hisham and who is father?. You know them personally?. Tell us how they look?. I have told you that you chose what pleases you. And you have not answered my initial question. I still got more references and questions for you but answer the first one first. It seems you didn't read to digest my previous post. The Quraishi and pagans, even in their enmity, the Meccans of Muhammad's time never accused him of moral ineptitude. A christian Dr. wrote: "The current charge that Muhammad took his third wife, Aisha, when she was a minor is based on apocryphal traditions. The preponderance of evidence suggests that Aisha was between 16 and 19 years old when she married Muhammad." Who opposed Aisha's marriage to prophet at that time?. Did anyone accuse prophet muhammad (SAW) of pedophilism those days?. Answer these questions please. Besides, this Hadith you quoted suggests prophet married Aisha after Khadija. Sawdah bint Zam was his second wife. Believe whatever you want. But I will keep it simple with you. Aisha(may Allah be pleased with her) was born 613 CE. Battle of badr (the first battle) took place in 624 two years after hijra. There is no historical record to back up solitary Hadith you quoted. There are other historical records about her age. I would have accepted the Hadith if it was attributed to the prophet himself (saw). No one can tell your story like you. In another word, only prophet muhammad (SAW) could tell his story and then, his God. The bible says, I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me." So only prophet himself could tell his story. But I'm not interested in all of these for now. My question was why didn't people at the time criticize prophet's marriage to the Aisha at the time?. Why is true2god having headache with this in 21st century? true2god: |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by advocatejare(m): 7:38am On Oct 16, 2020 |
Empiree: So you're telling us that your Sahih hadith lied that Aisha was not a child? Let's show you the proof that she was: It was narrated that 'Aishah said: "The Messenger of Allah married me when I was six, and consummated the marriage with me when I was nine, and I used to play with dolls." -Sunan an-Nasa'i 3378 Now this hadith below confirm that while Aisha was already co-habiting with muhammad, she had not yet attained puberty: Narrated `Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for `Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fath-ul-Bari page 143, Vol.13) -Sahih Bukhari Vol. 8, Book 73, Hadith 151 1 Like |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by true2god: 8:38am On Oct 16, 2020 |
Empiree:You asking me who Hisham is is not relevant to this discussion. Your question should have been directed to Imam Bukhari who compiled the authentic hadith being used in all the sunni Muslim world. Direct your anger and question to Imam Bukhari who quoted Ibn Hisham as saying Aisha was 6 years old when Mohammed married her. Didn't you also read the hadith where Aisha said she was 6 when Mohammed married her and was 9 when Mohammed (being 54) started having sex with her? As part of the condition of rejecting or accepting an hadith, that is it must have a chain of narration, which the hadith and info satisfied. Argue with your scholars and not me concerning Aisha's age. Empiree:What is the name of this so-called christian doctor and what were his sources? Empiree:Abu Bakr and his wife opposed mohammed for the fact that Aisha was like Mohammed's niece and his daughter as well. However mohammed argued that they are not related by blood but only by religion hence made Aisha lawful for him. Empiree:Mohammed considered himself the best of mankind and a perfect conduct for emulation. His claim should have been backup with a good action and he should have know better than his contemporaries. Empiree:Your mathematical gymnastics and calculation is irrelevant. Aisha and Ibn Hisham's testimonies are enough to establish the fact we are talking about. Provide an alternative hadith that contradicts Aisha's words and testimonies. Empiree:Your hadith are oral testimonies of the sahabas of mohammed concerning the words and deeds of mohammed. How do you want to see mohammed's direct words in the hadith, aside being quoted by a third party? Are you sure you are still a Muslim? Your Islamic knowledge seem to be depreciating day by day. Empiree:So we should reject all hadith right? 2 Likes |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by Empiree: 2:56pm On Oct 16, 2020 |
true2god:see, I will continue to waste my time obviously. I am the one giving you attention. Point I am trying to raise is, you can not back up solitary Hadith you quoted. It doesn't have historic backing. Recall few years ago when I was trashing your Bible on rilwayne's thread?. I dug up background of almost all known and unknown bible writers to debunk you guys and your fake religion. None of you was able to refute it. You all left the thread. So if you must quote Hadith, be sure you have back up. This is not about sahih bukhari. There are many solitary aHadith that complement other aHadith to form harmonious whole which you lack in your so called research. You are not a researcher. If you are, you would have seen other historical facts against the Hadith. There are many of them. So the Hadith you quoted is not wahy but statement of someone. It is pretty much 3rd third party that has nothing to do with the prophet himself. And no one said sahih bukhari is 100% valid. So next time be sure you search all aHadith that talk about a topic before you make fool of yourself in public. I know you already made up your mind. So nothing I can say that will change you. I am only posting for future readers, that Anobi Muhammad sallahlah alai wasalam did not marry a 6 yrs old girl. Finally, let it enter my record and your record that you failed woefully to answer a very simple question. Here is my question for you TRUE2GOD again in bold: Please provide evidence that people in those days, whether believers or non-believers including Muhammad's archenemies condemned his marriage to Aisha (ra) based on Aisha's age, or whatever it was? What is the name of this so-called christian doctor and what were his sources?https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-2002-12-04-0212040054-story,amp.html In case the link doesn't work, copy and paste this sentence in your Google search to direct you to the page "The current charge that Muhammad took his third wife, Aisha, when she was a minor is based on apocryphal traditions. The preponderance of evidence suggests that Aisha was between 16 and 19 years old when she married Muhammad." Abu Bakr and his wife opposed mohammed for the fact that Aisha was like Mohammed's niece and his daughter as well. However mohammed argued that they are not related by blood but only by religion hence made Aisha lawful for him.this is just theory without reference and your theory itself is not tenable. Question above stands |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by true2god: 11:05am On Oct 17, 2020 |
Empiree:Two, three, four, and more hadith that confirmed the age of Aisha when mohammed married her and started sleeping with her cannot be called a 'solitary hadith'. A record that was documented by Iman Muslim and Imam Bukhari cannot be called 'solitary'. If you dont accept the event, narration or the hadith, that will be justified (I believed you know it is morally wrong to have sex with a minor) but discounted the hadith altogether is an intellectually dishonest exercise on your part. I would rather you call them 'weak or fabricated hadith' than waving them aside as a lie. You cant understand islam better than Imam Bukari; historically he is closer to the time of the event and geographically he is closer to the culture where the event took place. Empiree:You are diverting to another issue; I wont play into your diversion tactics. Empiree:Your opinion is very inconsequential here. Over 95% of sunni muslim scholars dont have any issue with the hadith. Your attempt to lie make you look very weak and unable to accept your islamic tradition as contained in your authentic hadith. Empiree:Sahih Bukhari may not be 100% considered accurate however the hadith concerning the age of Aisha met the required standard for validating a hadith, that is if there are multiple chains of narration on a particular ruling, deed and action of your prophet. You seem to want to create your new islamic standard, that is DENIAL! Empiree: Empiree:I have anwered this question in my last post but you seem not interested in my response. See my response below: Empiree:Mohammed considered himself the best of mankind and a perfect conduct for emulation. His claim should have been backup with a good action and he should have know better than his contemporaries. Empiree:I dont patronize anonymous writers who have no leverage or scholarship in Islamic theology, law and jurisprudence. Your trinity of the quran, the hadith and seerah is enough for me to establish my argument. Why are you running from pillar to post to nullify what your hadith said repeatedly? |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by Empiree: 1:00pm On Oct 17, 2020 |
^^ Your case is closed jare. You said you answered but you didn't. Here is my question again. Prove to me anyone during the time of the prophet who opposed his marriage to Aisha either due to her "underage" or otherwise?. You can't conclude in 21st century that he was pedophilia when we can't find such allegation in his time. I also asked you for historical breakdown but you can not. Until you can effectively prove there were antagonists then I won't take your serious. I haven't even started bringing out more proves against yours. Only one question I asked but you failed. Better still, bring one hadith that says xyz set of people were against their marriage. Have a good day |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by true2god: 1:30pm On Oct 17, 2020 |
Empiree:Run run master. You are yet to provide a single Islam source that says Aisha was not 6 when Mohammed married her and 9 when Mohammed started sleeping with her. However, you have changed the basis of the argument which is 'the people of Mohammed's time didn't condemn his action'. What is your stand, that the age attributed to Aisha was a lie or that it was a norm to marry underaged girls during the time of Mohamed? |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by Empiree: 2:07pm On Oct 17, 2020 |
true2god:the age in the Hadith was a lie and incorrect. Statistic timeline record shows contrary to what Hadith said about her age at the time of marriage. The least that came close to the lowest age was around 11. This was even far from 6 documented. If you study history of hijra, battle of badr, Aisha's age, you get to realize that 6 and 9 didn't come close at all. That was fabricated. I have given you just one example brekkie but it seems you didn't pay attention. I posted that no one was allowed to join to accompany warriors to the battlefield unless they were 15. Aisha(ra) was accompanied companions to the battlefield but he was not as yet married to the prophet until 2 yrs later. This should have given you a clue adjust. I am so so reluctant to bring these aHadith up bcuz they are scattered all over sahid Bukhari and Muslim. But ahadith that claim she was 6 which islamophobic people capitalized on have no statistics data to back them up. |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by true2god: 3:34pm On Oct 17, 2020 |
Empiree:You are yet to provide a single Islamic source to backup your argument. Is it that you don't have the source or you just manufacture information from your imagination. I provided sources which I used in building my case and I want you do the same. Give us Islamic sources that contradict what Imam Muslim and Imam Bukhari documented. Is this too difficult for you to provide? And FYA, sahih Bukhari is the most trusted hadith collection among the sunni Muslims (and the interpretation of the ayahs of the quran is based largely on sahih Bukhari's work) unless you want to disagree. I also gave you surah 65 ayah 4 on child marriage in Islam being sanctioned by allah and his messenger. I don't think you even bothered to read it (together with it associated tafsir). 1 Like |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by Empiree: 3:48pm On Oct 17, 2020 |
true2god:what are you saying?. That this verse is referring to "child marriage"?. You must be sick |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by true2god: 7:30pm On Oct 17, 2020 |
Empiree:Since you longer want to learn I won't be tired teaching you basic Islam. Surah 65:4 talk about waiting period for 3 classes of women before they could remarry. These classes are: 1) Old women who have reached menopuase 2) Women who are pregnant 3) Girls who have never mensurated at all. Do you notice the third category of people that Quran 65:4 is talking about? |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by Excel70: 8:44pm On Oct 17, 2020 |
Empiree:https://www.nairaland.com/6186992/becheve-cross-river-community-where |
Re: Is A Woman Entitled To Work In Islam? by Empiree: 2:15am On Oct 18, 2020 |
Excel70:thanks for sharing this. See how hypocritical they are. Assuming this happened up north these clowns would be attacking our prophet. True2god, did you read this thread?. You are so fixed on over 1400 yr relationship while ignoring madness in your own backyard. You act as if you care about "6 year old Aisha" at if she's still 6 yrs old now. I am very reluctant to engage your because you are just recycling the same old trash. I knew at have discussed this topic in the past extensively but you have your motives. I can't help you with that. Anyways, take it or leave it, Aisha (ra) and Anobi Muhammad (SAW) married legally and there was no complaints. So why is true2god in 21st so much concerned about 1400 year old relationship?. Ibere ni o true2god:You are trying to play smart, abi?. I know the game your wanna play. How does this relate to "underage" Aisha?. Surah 65:4 does not state any such thing. Surah does not even mention under age girls. It is wrongly derived meaning of the sentence "and those who have not menstruated". The whole idea of the waiting period (iddat) is to rule out any chance of women being pregnant before re-marrying an other man. Now, pre-pubicent girls because of their biology cannot get pregnant. Therefore there is no logic in asking them to wait for 3 months (or any length of period). "and those who have not menstruated" is for those women who have missed their period and are not sure if they are pregnant or not. They should therefore wait for 3 months. Again, “Those who have not menstruated” would imply someone otherwise of apparent physical maturity who either is late to start menstruating, or who has stopped for whatever medical reason. It discusses menstruation in the context of divorce. The fact that a female had not yet menstruated does not make her a child. The fact that these qualifications apply when a man is divorcing a woman (65:1) shouldn’t be ignored. In the Bible the youngest girl wedded was age 3 And the average age was when a girl got her first period, which is around 9 or 10. And here plenty of Mormons and catholic have gotten in trouble for that. https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3547303/amp
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