₦airaland Forum

New PGM's etc.
Looks like the Denel developed Sajeel PGM kit is integrated on Hawk now.

Recce Hornets

T-7 and Plofadder

New products and demo pics.

Some pics from RDM demo day at OTB.

UGV SF vehicles

The Recces should buy some of these for protected long range patrol/peacekeeping ops.
Their Caspirr's must be getting old by now.

Some info on Denel's M-8 mortar and new PFF 60mm and 81mm ammo.
Pretty impressive stuff. A lot less 60mm ammo needed for your section to slog around the bush.
It would also effectively turn something like Thales's 81mm Toyota mounted tube into a 120mm equivalent.

ACD2019


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR1Hq17HFsE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNNqRuTNn74

New PGM's developed by DENEL for Tawazun.

Odunayaw:
An undisclosed client in the Middle East is the launch export customer for Denel Dynamics’ Seeker 400 unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) and has ordered six aircraft.

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/aerospace/aerospace-aerospace/more-details-emerge-on-seeker-400-export-order/?utm_source=SocialAutoPoster&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Its done to keep the mileage and engine hours low.
SANDF also transports theirs like this.
In wartime the G6 would self deploy, but during peacetime it only shortens the lifespan of the system.

jln115:
Only our Arab friends would tow a G6...

Maybe I'm missing something, but I can literally not see the point.... It has wheels for a reason.

Watch out for the tide!


[quote author=ViceAdmirlAgain post=75899409][/quote]

Already has a launch customer

Thanks for posting that.
Quite a read, but probably the most comprehensive write up on the subject I've read sovar.
Most of the material out there contains a lot of rumors and speculation. I suspect some of the authors has to dramatize the story to sell books.

We actually did guard duty once at the Vastrap area during my time in the SADF. We had no idea what it was for. It was part of a larger training area used mainly by the airforce methinks. 8SAI mainly used Riemvasmaak for bush-vase (small unit manoeuvre training) and Lohatla for big exercises.
Funny thing was, at times Vastrap used more troops for guard duty than 8SAI's big base in Upington. Yet there was nothing there as far as we could tell!
Later found out what it was for.

frumentius:
One occasionally comes across questions here about South Africa's nuclear program. The link below is one of the more comprehensive open sources out there on the program.

Personally, far more interesting than the weapons themselves, were the various delivery systems. From the Raptor glide system - acquired by Pakistan, Algeria and others – to the 1 500km RSA-3 rocket which precipitated the US shutting down our Space program as a condition to us joining the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR).


https://isis-online.org/uploads/isis-reports/documents/RevisitingSouthAfricasNuclearWeaponsProgram.pdf

Ratel shot out in Yemen

Like a said in a post above, that "patch" is Blackbeard’s flag predating the skull and bones by about a 100 years and the Seals by about 300, so unless seal team 3 swapped patches with the crew of the Queen Anne’s Revenge along the way, it means nothing.

TayserMahri:
Its actually misguided to ID units based on patches. SOF units from different countries often train and deploy together thereby exchanging a lot of stuffs. Here’s a Belgian operative wearing a patch of a sub-unit of the Australian 2nd Commando Regiment.

That patch is actually the original pirate flag. The skull and crossbones came along about a 100 years later.
Its pretty generic and worn by many in the US military kinda like the Moaon Aabe patches.

frumentius:
The patch might look like Seal Team 3, but it's been confirmed to me the guy was SAS, part of a 4-man training troop from an urban warfare squadron. Only member of his team who happened to be at GSU HQ in Nairobi at the time.

So no, contrary to the claims of "giants" with ironic inferiority complexes, the KDF didn't outsource the job to anyone. Even though a detachment from UN Navy Seal Team 3 is currently in Kenya, they weren't involved, seeing they're based in Camp Simba, which may or may not be located in Lamu or thereabouts!

Looks like a sidewinder integrated on that Mig ?

Algerian1:
Oldies . alg

Its really easy for me to sit at a distance and criticize, but the fact is that these type of insurgencies are very hard to combat.
Like you mentioned, they are reverting to a war of attrition and avoiding direct confrontation. I have a lot of sympathy for the commanders that have to try and counter this without the endless resources of the US or EU.

Even the US had to resort to bribing warlords to co-opt the insurgency in Iraq by employing the very people who were shooting at them.

Fidha254:
most of the IED attacks have happened on routine patroll and supply runs... Alshbaab usually don't stick around ..... Anyway I get your point...

In one incident Alshabaab set up three IEDs, one on the road, then other on left and right side of the road just incase KDF discovered the one on the road and decided to vere off road ... (Also in the 1st pic, that white object looks like a timer , coupled with the grey cable... Looks like it was intended to double as a secondary detonation after troops gathered to rescue after the initial blast)
Unfortunately the one on the road went off... But the other two on the sides were neutralised..

Someone is clearly supplying these guys with explosive material cause the new IEDs look like the were made with someone who realy understands how to make them from scratch, a few years ago Alshabaab IEDs were modified WW2 mines or old morter shell or gas cylinder...etc but recently it's all plastic explosive ..and high grade at that..

I get your point, but light vehicles have a place in COIN ops.
Best defence for IED's is to stay off the roads. Same applies when you patroll on foot. Its been standard procedure in Infantry doctrine for decades. In Iraq, the insurgents just upped the amount of explosives do deal with Mraps.

This is how SF operates hence the use of light vehicles like Jacals and Toyotas. That's not to say that they're ideal for all situations. The terrain might dictate that you're only able to use roads for instance. You'd need armor to deal with the inevitable ambushes and IED's.
Light vehicles make it possible to stay in the field for longer denying insurgencies ground to operate and have an influence on the local populations. It also allows for long range hot pursuit operations and allows you to react quicker in the "whack-a-mole" world of insurgencies.

Fidha254:
They'll need to be up-amoured like above level 3 protection or else they'll not be useful in our situation. But the cost of the kind of upgrade required for that , we are better off just going for other purpose built lpv

KDF humvee Vs IED

African countries should look into buying some surplus humvees in the states. I can pick one up down the road for about $5000. There's a company that will do a full rebuild on the drivetrain and interior for about $20 000 all in. They'll drop a brand new Cummins diesel in there for an xtra 5K. You can also get a good LMTV for about 20K. Some of them were in National Guard storage and have very little on the clock.

You can even get financing. Curious to know how much a new Toyota will run you in Nigeria ?

Checkout

https://www.govplanet.com/Humvees

Henry240:
Exercise flintlock 2018

Special forces from Canada, Niger Sniper

I believe that was the testbed for the LCT-30 Badger turret.
Testing fire on the move stabilization, sighting systems etc.

Henry240:
South-Africa

Rooikat with a turret that looks like a 30mm RCWS

I'd say the GDLS Flyer is more analogous to the Hornet in concept.
Looks much more capable off-road than Hornet, but might be longer and heavier.
Does anyone know if the SANDF has ever lifted Hornets with Oryx in exercise or airdropped from a C-130?
I've never seen a pick, but I remember seeing a Wasp/Hornet in a airdrop cage type setup.

Henry240:
I think i might have found a vehicle that's very similar to the Hornet. It's Polish.

Wirus Reconnaissance/ Fast Intervention Vehicle.

Now thats a what a well maintained HMG should look like.

Inspection passed. Take a personal for the rest of the afternoon soldier.

Henry240:
Nigerian soldier

Do you know the backstory on this incident ?

Henry240:
French Special Forces losses in Mali

Operation Serval

French Special Forces Vehicle

Since they'll build a factory in you country, its very hard to tell how much country to country. It would depend on local labor costs, how many you order etc. etc.
Lifecycle costs are also a factor. Should be much less as you could just service at the factory.
Its a much more guaranteed and quantifiable industrial offset though. Unlike the BS promises the big companies make to get a signature on a piece of paper.

They'll build you a factory that can produce all or your military vehicle needs IFV,AFV,Mrap/patrol,logistics, mortar carrier,SF etc. Transfer the skills and give you a regional sales agreement.
Think of it as a off the shelf turnkey arms industry.
Hell, I bet they'd even let you assemble AHRLAC there if you buy.

LTGEN:
How much do they cost?

The standoff distance should also help with absorbing big IED shockwaves.

SternProphet:
Ya. Mbombe does have a cage and standoff armour built into the design that is flush with the hull.
Looking at the pictures, I actually suspect the passenger compartment may have been more recessed and designed to be more deflective of even tandem, shaped charge RPG rounds than the competition although I have no evidence to support this.

Best defence is don't get hit in the first place.
In testing cage only stops rpg rounds 40-60% of the time depending on who's research you read. They use it ,because it doesn't add much weight and is therefor worth the sacrifice. It also becomes a problem when you start going through bush or tight urban terrain. That's why you only see it on vehicles in high threat areas. Mbombe has cage and standoff armour built into the design so its more flush with the hull for this reason.

kikuyu1:
RPG cage! Like this BTR-IIRC,only the latest dual warheads can deal with this.

What SP gun is that ?
Looks like a Brit Abbot 105mm

Henry240:
Rwanda Defence Force

ATGM completely setup on the Otokar Cobra

Mbombe 6x6 was designed for lower budged militaries where it bridges the gap between MRAP, Motorised and Mechanised infantry using different turrets. Titus is just to big to be used in mech and the 20mm doesn't cut it in that role anymore. So you end up with a vehicle that's overbuilt for motorised infantry. A budget minded military would use something much cheaper for that role. You can buy a lot of 2nd hand mraps for $900 000.

The high silhouette makes it very vulnerable to RPG fire. When you look at RPG training on the range, the biggest problem is ranging. Gunners usually miss very long or verry short at more than 300m. A high silhouette helps a lot with ranging errors.
Paramount will open a factory in your home country tomorrow. That's their whole business model.
Nexter exist to primarily support the French military and would instead do some kind of industrial offset with big promises of unicorns and rainbows that never amount to much 5 years later. They'll be glad to finance you though, but by the time you make your last payment those Euro bankers would have fleeced you out of 3x the amount on the sticker price.
At the end of your Mbombe contract you'll have a locally staffed factory with a regional export licence and in-country vehicle support. With the French you'll have to fly over some Nexter engineers every time you want run a engine diagnostic.

Henry240:
I'm not even referring to it's looks. The TITUS has one of the best mobility characteristics i've ever seen. A heavy this big and able to overcome the obstacles i've seen it overcome is incredible.

It's also built on Tatra proven chassis.

Again it's troop carrying capacity and the fact it carries a 20mm RCWS are huge draws for me personally.

Yet another SA Mrap company.
This is getting ridiculous now.

I agree that the MC-90 should also be brought back to life.
You could fit in a new power train and market it as a Toyota killer for COIN operations.

One option would be to offer a COIN package to customers like Nigeria, Chad etc.
You could have a MC-90/20/23 or mortar turret for cheap direct fires, a light protected mrap for infantry,a truck mounted 60/81/82mm mortar like the scorpion and a light recon/SF guntruck. Logistics and recovery can run on regular Toyota's with off road trailers.
All would be based on a common COTS driveline like a standard Toyota or anything that's produced in the country your selling to.

This would equip a "super light" COIN battle group that could stay in the feild much longer and be light enough to keep up with the enemy.
Heavy equipment slows you down to much and leads to shorter operations due to your logistics footprint and the maintenance of things like t-55s compared to a diesel Hilux. Lighter forces have the advantage of providing these local far out communities with more permanent security and policing. Time and time again we see insurgent groups in Africa get chased of only to return to those areas and establish operations when the security forces leave.

Most African countries should really consider getting rid of their heavy units equipped for conventional peer-peer warfare. If your neighbour does attack you with his 20 serviceable T-55's you could easily just stop him with a couple of SF units with Spikes or Javelins. No need to keep a expensive mechanised force with all the bells and whistles. Light units are also much more capable of providing policing in rural areas by embedding law enforcement officers for arresting and investigative functions that you really don't want soldiers to perform.

Have a look at what the Russians are doing with their 30th Motorized Rifle Brigade. The lessons they learnt in Syria can easily be translated to Africa.
Think defence has another good article on this concept from a western equipment perspective:
https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/light-strike-brigade/

https://russiandefpolicy.blog/tag/30-%D1%8F-%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%81%D0%B1%D1%80/

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/08/09/lessons-of-syria-russia-creates-super-light-motorized-infantry/

61mech:
The G-7's main selling point is its range and the deadly PFF HE rounds.
The modular charge system is essential to this.
You could downgrade it ,but then you'd just be competing with the Nexter and BAE guns with the same specs. Those companies have a huge advantage over Denel as their governments can finance deals.

The best bet for the G-7 would be to sell it to countries that do not already operate a 105mm. That way you can get past the "existing ammo supply" problem. You're also just talking about replacing the charges in inventory and not the rounds as G-7 was designed to be NATO 105mm ammo capable. An SP version integrated into a Patria AMV for example could also be an attractive product for countries wanting to go lighter without sacrificing much by replacing 155mm or 122mm d-30's with the G-7.
Another option would be a shortened lightweight version to replace 120mm mortars for airborne units. You could outrange old 120mm tubes and have lighter ammo at the same time. Chop the barrel just enough to make it to 15-20km range. Kind of a modern version of the OTO Melara 105mm pack howitzer.

Denel needs money to finish the project certs though. Until then they can't really sell it yet.

The G-7's main selling point is its range and the deadly PFF HE rounds.
The modular charge system is essential to this.
You could downgrade it ,but then you'd just be competing with the Nexter and BAE guns with the same specs. Those companies have a huge advantage over Denel as their governments can finance deals.

The best bet for the G-7 would be to sell it to countries that do not already operate a 105mm. That way you can get past the "existing ammo supply" problem. You're also just talking about replacing the charges in inventory and not the rounds as G-7 was designed to be NATO 105mm ammo capable. An SP version integrated into a Patria AMV for example could also be an attractive product for countries wanting to go lighter without sacrificing much by replacing 155mm or 122mm d-30's with the G-7.
Another option would be a shortened lightweight version to replace 120mm mortars for airborne units. You could outrange old 120mm tubes and have lighter ammo at the same time. Chop the barrel just enough to make it to 15-20km range. Kind of a modern version of the OTO Melara 105mm pack howitzer.

Denel needs money to finish the project certs though. Until then they can't really sell it yet.

frumentius:
Out of all the many stalled Denel projects, these are the ones that I personally, would most like to see brought into production in the short term:
1) G7, towed and mobile, using existing NATO 105 ammo and not the proprietary ammo;
2) Bateleur UAV, obviously brought up-to-date and perhaps powered by the cheaper hydrogen fuel cells the CSIR developed with DARPA and our Department of Science and Technology funding;
3) An updated Mechem MC-90, a proper light reconnaissance car to replace the Eland, unlike the heavy Rooikat which can't be used in an expeditionary capacity.

A mate at CSIR Defence has a spreadsheet containing almost 100 Denel products started and unfinished due to lack of funds, with almost 300 IP items which the company could commercialise from [b]A[/b]mbulance services to [b]Z[/b]ero emission tools. A-Z, geddit?
I've only just chosen the 3 out of many needs that I think merit urgent attention we planners identify in the current structure of the SANDF.
Just Denel at which I'm looking at the moment; the broader SA defence industry could actually fulfill all the needs of our continent, cheaper and at the requisite performance or more, of the western and eastern suppliers.