Jman24:



My brother .. I like your permutations. But it doesn't matter how long someone knows he will die. The question is at that point of his death.. he said if it were possible let this cup pass over me ; that's a statement of intent (divided will) ...
Let the will be done (the will of God)
God cannot have two 'wills' over a situation at a particular time.
So that analysis is flawed

thorpido:
You(and obviously other Sunnis)are the ones who say they are not Muslims.Shia believe Mohammed appointed Ali as his successor and this is backed up by the Hadith and history books.
They believe in Allah because they believe Muhammed's message and his appointment of Ali.According to history,some companions of Muhammed resisted them but he also got backing from some companions of Muhammed. Shias's believe is based on the Hadith of Ghadir Khumm and some others.

See you can't prove they are wrong because of your own beliefs.They also have proofs backed up by Hadiths and history that they are right.

One thing I'm trying to show you from all of this is that the SAME issue of what you may call 'inconsistencies' in the Bible or Christianity affects Islam too.

thorpido:
At the end of it all,was THE SAME will fulfilled or not?

N.B.Jesus had an earthly body here on the Earth and was subject to pain like every human being.His statement of asking to let the cup pass over him was from the point of 'fleshy rejection'.

NeoWanZaeed:
SHIA BELIEVED SO BUT DO THEY HAVE PROOF? NO! JUST AS OTHER N0NSENSES DEY BELIEVE. ISLAM IS VERY CLEAR. JUST FOLLOW THE PROPHET. EVEN BI CLAIM THEY FOLLOW D PROPHET..EVEN JALABI ALFA CLAIM SAME

Jman24:


Stop twisting English language.
You and your club fixed a match to end draw .. at the 90th minute you wished for you to win.. but later saw you couldn't do anything about it.
Your will at stoppage time is for you to win. Not draw.

NeoWanZaeed:
CLAIMING TO FOLLOW PROPHET MUHAMMAD AND CLAIMING TO BE A MUSLIM IS VERY EASY. . . ITS TO BRING PROOF THAT SUPPORTS UR CLAIM IN QURAN AND HADITH THATS THE MAIN THING. . JUST LIKE EVERYONE CLAIMS TO BE CHRISTIAN BUT TO ATTEST AND AFFIRM THAT IS THE PROBLEM COZ BIBLE XEF NA WASH

thorpido:
You do not have sufficient proof too that they do not follow the prophet.Their faith is based on the Hadiths and Ali their leader was a companion of Muhammed.

thorpido:
The Hadith of Ghadir Khumm is not proof?
Your opinion @bolded.

Jman24:

My brother .. I like your permutations. But it doesn't matter how long someone knows he will die. The question is at that point of his death.. he said if it were possible let this cup pass over me ; that's a statement of intent (divided will) ...
Let the will be done (the will of God)
God cannot have two 'wills' over a situation at a particular time.
So that analysis is flawed

thorpido:
Your analogy doesn't hold water.
Jesus already told his disciples he was going to lay down his life.

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.John 10:18.

His will from the very beginning aligned with the Father's will.

Jman24:


It still doesn't matter what you agree from the beginning. That mere agreement means the two are different. But the change 'if it is possible let this cup pass over' is all you need to know that they ain't same. You can align to what ever God wants but it doesn't make you God, especially when you even had that thought in your mind to do otherwise. That's the point.

It's still a commandment he received from God(meaning you have a choice to obey or not to) which implies you can't be God If you have a 'choice' to or not to obey.



Simple English

thorpido:
At the end of it all,was THE SAME will fulfilled or not?

N.B.Jesus had an earthly body here on the Earth and was subject to pain like every human being.His statement of asking to let the cup pass over him was from the point of 'fleshy rejection'.

MaxInDHouse:
Now i know where your arguments are coming from!

Jesus is a God just like all other spirit sons of God but he is not the Almighty God!

MaxInDHouse:
Now i know where your arguments are coming from!

Jesus is a God just like all other spirit sons of God but he is not the Almighty God!

Henrymorre:
we have only one god
Mark 12:29
Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord;

MaxInDHouse:
You need to know what the Bible say about that title "GOD" according to God's word a God is anybody at whose order/wish things are done or happens. That's why God told Moses i make you God to Pharaoh {Exodus 7:1} Jesus was a God as whatever he wish comes to pass everywhere he goes {John 1:1} Our human rulers were Gods because at their orders things happens {Psalms 82:6 compared to 1Corinthians 8:5-6} but the Almighty God is one! Deuteronomy 6:4










English language again.

'A God' is not same as 'God'

Henrymorre:
I have to clear some misconceptions totally overhauling here. @livingchrist had to create a a thread where he totally mislead alot of people and I am here to counter that..

After searching the Bible and couldn't find a single reference to the word trinity in the Bible. I will start from Jesus Christ the Messiah of the Jews.

We all know Jesus came for the Jews during his time. Also, there was no account where Jesus claimed he was God.

John 10:30 I and my father are one..
Let express that phrase with John 17:20 " "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one

- 23 I in them and you in me-so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me"

At the above statement, Jesus was never saying he was God or in God as trinity, rather they share same purpose. The purpose of God was to win souls for him, and since he shares same as God, we can say they are one. One ideas, one agenda one purpose.. vs 21: Jesus stated that let the world truly believe that you have sent me through his works.

From vs 25; 25“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made you e known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.” ( here Jesus was also emphasising on being in them. Those them are the Jews, he came for, us, so that we may have one purpose with him? Which to know God, but him has already known God but we don't. Just like everyother other preacher, John the Baptist, Paul, Peter knew God but still some didn't know God.

The Day and Hour Unknown

Mathew 24: 36“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, f but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man..
If Jesus was God, how come he still emphasising on Only God knowing the time not even the holy spirit which are all one God? Trinity?

(John14:8-11)
Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves"( just as above, as he is in the father, one purpose, one agenda, the words he speak are from God, and not from him, he has no authority to make such words..)

At the end moment Jesus did not have same will as God( Jesus didn't want to die)

36Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” 37He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.”

39Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

From verse 42 he went again to pray for the same prayer
42: He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.”

The will of God was for Jesus to die, but Jesus did not want to die, however since he was serving God he had no option but to accept his fate. (here clearly states that God can never be a list, nor can the nature of God change. God cannot have two wills neither can God be Man. God is immortal and cannot change to be a man).

I will quote the Holy spirit when I get questions and comments.

My people perish due to lack of wisdom

Henrymorre:
the holy spirit is an angel neither is the holy spirit God.

Isaiah 63:10-12
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name? -

Exodus 23:20-23

Let me now express that here
Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off. -
Remember, only the holy spirit will not forgive when angered. We can clearly see that the holy spirit is indeed an angel.

Emusan:


Are you a Muslim because this your version of Holy Spirit is another one?

Henrymorre:
full-time Christian. Assemblies of God church

livingchrist:
who was Christ before he came to the earth?

Emusan:


And you said, Holy Spirit is an Angel?

MaxInDHouse:
Are you saying a King is not same as King shey?

NeoWanZaeed:
Kneeling down for a pastor to pray for u is the same as kneelin down in fr0nt of mary statue. Asking mary to intercede in prayer is the same thing as saying IN JESUS NAME

Henrymorre:
please, don't confuse and lewd people to sin. You don't kneel before a statue. It's wrong and in the ten commandments, worship no idol or other God except me. God manifested his works through Jesus and not through Mary. Marys purpose was just only give birth to Jesus and that was it. Her job was done.

Jman24:



'A king' in owerri means there are possibilities of other kings and not the main king

'king of owerri' (affirmative) the sole authority

So when u say someone is a God, it is not affirmative.


English language

Henrymorre:
Luke 4:8 please, don't confuse and lead people to sin. You don't kneel before a statue. It's wrong and in the ten exodus 20:3 commandments, worship no idol or other God except me. God manifested his works through Jesus and not through Mary. Marys purpose was just only give birth to Jesus and that was it. Her job was done.

MaxInDHouse:
Well God's word referred to Satan as the "God of this world" John 14:30; 2Corinthians 4:4o

So your affirmative doesn't count now!

Jman24:

My illustration was relative. The world is not all thats existing so satan the God of this world is still not affirmative. So satan isn't God
I'm happy you are getting the joke small small