HellVictorinho:

Religious people believe anything they gain come(s) from God(s) but I don't believe in such things.
So, what is the essence of asking them what they benefit from religion?
Also,the benefits I have stated about religion are actually the benefits of socialization.
Furthermore, I think religion plays a less significant role in the process of socialization.
What else

In other words you cannot objectively show that religion brings more evil than good, therefore your statement is a subjective one and should be stated as such.

gensteejay:

I never told you death is the sole factor.

Are you saying military science is bad? Aren't you mixing up military science with genocide and wars?

I am saying pointing at death as a reason to call something evil is a useless metric.

HellVictorinho:

I have pointed out the so-called advantages before.
Religious people do good to their fellow religious people sometimes.
But can you compare that with the bad things that happen in the name of religion??
Can you even compare that with the things they fail to do in the name of religion

I don't know if you can so how are you making the comparison?

LordReed:


I am saying pointing at death as a reason to call something evil is a useless metric.

That's your subjective opinion.

I can list several reasons why religion (Christianity and Islam are the focus here) is bad overall. I think you know many of them already.

Still looking for the basis of your argument as an atheist.

Whether a person is an atheist, humanist, Muslim, Christian, etc. I think they're all subjective positions just as I believe there's no true religion.

About military science, it's broad. The development of the atomic bomb (an aspect of military science) mainly became successful during World War 2.

In my opinion, wars and bombs have devastating effects and often do more harm than good.

However, a country can't fail to develop its military science simply because bombs are highly destructive.

How will such a people defend themselves against an invasion, threats of colonization, or external and internal threats?

I don't think any people or nation can develop without science and technology. I think one should focus more on science (with good conscience) and also safety and health issues some inventions or gadgets can cause.

Major problems affecting humanity are food security, health and environmental issues (diseases, genetic defects, etc.), shelter and the likes. All these are human problems that can only be solved by humans using science and technology (not a religion).

Only humans can also solve natural problems or issues. But a typical religious person feels otherwise.

gensteejay:

That's your subjective opinion.

It isn't. Electricity kills, does that make it evil? People die by the thousands due to road accidents every year, does that make automobiles or road accidents evil? You simply cannot point at something and say because people die due to it therefore it is evil.

LordReed:


It isn't. Electricity kills, does that make it evil? People die by the thousands due to road accidents every year, does that make automobiles or road accidents evil? You simply cannot point at something and say because people die due to it therefore it is evil.

Electricity acts on its own?

Is your view as an atheist also objective? Or atheism is only the objective path out of various religions, groups, and philosophies?

Still wondering why you're not a Christian, a Muslim, Buddhist if you believe all this.

gensteejay:

Electricity acts on its own?

Is your view as an atheist also objective? Or atheism is only the objective path out of various religions, groups, and philosophies?

Still wondering why you're not a Christian, a Muslim, Buddhist if you believe all this.

Religion acts on it's own?

Yes my view as an atheist is objective. If you were to present the so called evidence for gods to a neutral objective party they would not find it compelling.

What is it you think I believe?

LordReed:


Yes my view as an atheist is objective.

Of course, it's. Every religion, group, or philosophy also believes that, though you may not agree.

gensteejay:

Of course, it's. Every religion, group, or philosophy also believes that, though you may not agree.

The fact that they can't even agree or properly articulate some of their beliefs is evidence enough they are operating subjectively. Can any of them point and say here is my god see him/her for yourself or do they not require you to acquire a belief in their god in other to see the god?

LordReed:


In other words you cannot objectively show that religion brings more evil than good, therefore your statement is a subjective one and should be stated as such.

In other words,you don't agree with me.

HellVictorinho:

In other words,you don't agree with me.

I neither agree or disagree. In other to agree with you I need to see how you arrived at your conclusion. So far all you've done is wag a finger.

LordReed:


The fact that they can't even agree or properly articulate some of their beliefs is evidence enough they are operating subjectively. Can any of them point and say here is my god see him/her for yourself or do they not require you to acquire a belief in their god in other to see the god?

Okay. I still maintain my stance in my comments above.

LordReed:


I don't know if you can so how are you making the comparison?

What do you want to hear or see?
The benefits of religion are just monies and goodies distributed among few people.
In other words, religion only benefits religious leaders and people that get help from religious leaders.
Concerning the bad side,it causes division, irresponsibility to some extent and confusion.
The division leads to conflicts and other things like that.
The irresponsibility contributes to poverty and suffering
The confusion is just confusion.

thebosstrevor1:
Religion is the pathway to riches.

Every religious book have a guidance on how to get rich, investment strategies and saving mentality.

Only shallow minded people won't see it.

Most atheists are potential marxists, an atheist and a godless society like Soviet union killed about 60 million Russian Christians

And a group of religious terrorists killed millions and still causing havoc in the Nigeria, will you tell me Bokoharam ain't religious?? Do you know how they slaughter people like animals, and they claimed they're fighting for Allah, what a bunch of headless monsters.

LordReed:


I neither agree or disagree. In other to agree with you I need to see how you arrived at your conclusion. So far all you've done is wag a finger.

I thought you're a Freethinker, I used to know you as a non religious person, what happened?

thebosstrevor1:
Religion is the pathway to riches.

Every religious book have a guidance on how to get rich, investment strategies and saving mentality.

Only shallow minded people won't see it.

Most atheists are potential marxists, an atheist and a godless society like Soviet union killed about 60 million Russian Christians

Tell me one INVESTMENT strategy you learn from the Bible and how has it make you a billionaire now?

gensteejay:

The fact is a person needs religion to socialize with people in a country like Nigeria. If not, one won't be able to do many essential things in the country successfully.

Actually you're wrong here.

Nobody will ask what your religion is before he/she gives you a job.

Nobody will ask for your religion before he/she will render a favour. Atheism/Agnosticism is still minor, I don't really let most people know about it because they are too many religious extremist out there that will annihilate you because you're not religious or label you as a demon.

LordReed:


Do you know how many people die yearly from conditions caused by scientific and technological advancement? Do you know how much is wasted on military technology R & D yearly? Again you are not showing me how you objectively came to the conclusion that religion creates more evil than good. You are only pointing out the disadvantages and wagging your finger.

At least Science brought electricity and they never said they are perfect and you know and I know there will always be flaws, but we don't care since advantages outweighs the disadvantages, your opinion is as irrelevant as the K in the world Knife. Tell me what good religion has brought to Humanity?

Dollywood:


Actually you're wrong here.

Nobody will ask what your religion is before he/she gives you a job.

Nobody will ask for your religion before he/she will render a favour. Atheism/Agnosticism is still minor, I don't really let most people know about it because they are too many religious extremist out there that will annihilate you because you're not religious or label you as a demon.

If they know you are not religious,most religious people won't employ you or help you.

Dollywood:


Actually you're wrong here.

Nobody will ask what your religion is before he/she gives you a job.

This is simply not true. You can lose your job in Nigeria simply because you say there's no god/God or criticize a religion.

Finding a wife; buying things in the neighborhood and other essential (though basic) activities can all be difficult to do if you disclose your religious views to people in the neighborhood or publicly.

And the major reason for this is those religious extremists (the pastors, alfas, deacons, etc.). They easily influence the not-so-religious Nigerians.

Hopefully, when there are more freethinkers, agnostics, atheists in Nigeria, things will be better (that's one of the advantages of the Internet).

Dollywood:


At least Science brought electricity and they never said they are perfect and you know and I know there will always be flaws, but we don't care since advantages outweighs the disadvantages, your opinion is as irrelevant as the K in the world Knife. Tell me what good religion has brought to Humanity?

The benefits of religion are not meant for the whole of humanity.
The benefits of religion are only meant for religious leaders who make money from tithes,offerings,first fruits,convenant seeds,etc AND people that get help from these religious leaders.
The people that get help from these religious leaders without dropping any offering or tithe are those whose plight are so serious.
In fact, the help is never good enough to take them out poverty.
So, the consequences of the conflicts,irresponsibility and confusion caused by religion remain much more relevant than the so-called benefits.

gensteejay:

This is simply not true. You can lose your job in Nigeria simply because you say there's no god/God or criticize a religion.

Finding a wife; buying things in the neighborhood and other essential (though basic) activities can all be difficult to do if you disclose your religious views to people in the neighborhood or publicly.

And the major reason for this is those religious extremists (the pastors, alfas, deacons, etc.). They easily influence the not-so-religious Nigerians.

Hopefully, when there are more freethinkers, agnostics, atheists in Nigeria, things will be better (that's one of the advantages of the Internet).

Exactly.

gensteejay:

This is simply not true. You can lose your job in Nigeria simply because you say there's no god/God or criticize a religion.

Finding a wife; buying things in the neighborhood and other essential (though basic) activities can all be difficult to do if you disclose your religious views to people in the neighborhood or publicly.

And the major reason for this is those religious extremists (the pastors, alfas, deacons, etc.). They easily influence the not-so-religious Nigerians.

Hopefully, when there are more freethinkers, agnostics, atheists in Nigeria, things will be better (that's one of the advantages of the Internet).

Perhaps, Location matters, I don't get discriminated rather I get this respect but I don't disclose it to everyone especially the extremist. And why would you say there's no God to your boss or your colleagues?? that's not necessary and it will hurt them.

HellVictorinho:

The benefits of religion are not meant for the whole of humanity.
The benefits of religion are only meant for religious leaders who make money from tithes,offerings,first fruits,convenant seeds,etc AND people that get help from these religious leaders.
The people that get help from these religious leaders without dropping any offering or tithe are those whose plight are so serious.
In fact, the help is never good enough to take them out poverty.
So, the consequences of the conflicts,irresponsibility and confusion caused by religion remain much more relevant than the so-called benefits.

The Religious people will never agree with you that their Religion have flaws and disadvantages, they make it seem like a perfect thing for humanity. While science admit their flaws and work on it.

If you ask anyone with good has religion done for humanity they won't give you an answer but jargons quoting most of it from the Bible.

Dollywood:


Perhaps, Location matters, I don't get discriminated rather I get this respect but I don't disclose it to everyone especially the extremist. And why would you say there's no God to your boss or your colleagues?? that's not necessary and it will hurt them.

Yea, location matters.

About saying one's views about God or religion to one's boss, I said that because I know some atheists or irreligionists are/were known publicly in the past (or present).

And some Nigerians are the ones that actually spread the news not the person in question specifically.

When I left religion between 2017—18, I realized how difficult it's to live in Nigeria as a freethinker/atheist when one's stance about religion/God is known publicly.

I wonder how Wole Soyinka, Tai Solarin, Seun and the likes cope/coped.

Dollywood:


I thought you're a Freethinker, I used to know you as a non religious person, what happened?

I don't know if I would consider myself a freethinker but I certainly am not religious. What makes you think I have changed? BTW I imagine a freethinker would celebrate my challenge, it's a call to critical reasoning. Should we simply condemn religion because we find it distasteful or should we be free to discuss its merits and demerits?

Dollywood:


At least Science brought electricity and they never said they are perfect and you know and I know there will always be flaws, but we don't care since advantages outweighs the disadvantages, your opinion is as irrelevant as the K in the world Knife. Tell me what good religion has brought to Humanity?

I imagine the question is best answered by the religious, me I am wearing my objective observer hat.

Dollywood:


The Religious people will never agree with you that their Religion have flaws and disadvantages, they make it seem like a perfect thing for humanity. While science admit their flaws and work on it.

If you ask anyone with good has religion done for humanity they won't give you an answer but jargons quoting most of it from the Bible.

It's a pathetic situation.

LordReed:


I imagine the question is best answered by the religious, me I am wearing my objective observer hat.

Actually,most or all of the religious people will find the question unnecessary.
They find any question that questions their faith unnecessary.
They believe their God (s) should not be questioned,too.
So, what is the essence of asking them
Hell Victorinho even knows the answer, already.
So,he has more reasons not to ask them.

LordReed:


I imagine the question is best answered by the religious, me I am wearing my objective observer hat.

Actually,most or all of the religious people will find the question unnecessary.
They find any question that questions their faith unnecessary.
They believe their God (s) should not be questioned,too.
So, what is the essence of asking them
Hell Victorinho even knows the answer, already.
So, he has more reasons not to ask them.

LordReed:


I don't know if I would consider myself a freethinker but I certainly am not religious. What makes you think I have changed? BTW I imagine a freethinker would celebrate my challenge, it's a call to critical reasoning. Should we simply condemn religion because we find it distasteful or should we be free to discuss its merits and demerits?

You know almost all atheists, freethinkers, agnostics, and the likes have been a religious person before (at one point in their lives).

So, one already knows from first-hand experience what those merits and demerits are. I can list the merits and demerits of a religion like Islam being a former Muslim.

But to what end? Will I consider becoming a Muslim (being enslaved to Arabs who founded Islam) after the discussion?

What makes Islam so special that can't be found in Christianity, Buddhism, etc.

I don't see the point of engaging in this sort of discussion when I already know as a matter of fact that Abrahamic religions are mainly a tool for mind control (mental slavery).

I know as a matter of fact I will never be a slave of a god (Allah, Yahweh, or any other god) or a worshipper of a god/God after all the years of research I did on religions and their histories.

Are you seriously asking for the merits (or advantages) of choosing not to be a slave?

gensteejay:

You know almost all atheists, freethinkers, agnostics, and the likes have been a religious person before (at one point in their lives).

So, one already knows from first-hand experience what those merits and demerits are. I can list the merits and demerits of a religion like Islam being a former Muslim.

But to what end? Will I consider becoming a Muslim (being enslaved to Arabs who founded Islam) after the discussion?

What makes Islam so special that can't be found in Christianity, Buddhism, etc.

I don't see the point of engaging in this sort of discussion when I already know as a matter of fact that Abrahamic religions are mainly a tool for mind control (mental slavery).

I know as a matter of fact I will never be a slave of a god (Allah, Yahweh, or any other god) or a worshipper of a god/God after all the years of research I did on religions and their histories.

Are you seriously asking for the demerits of choosing not to be a slave?

Read my post again maybe it will finally make sense to you.