Stoplying:


Actually ibadan was a village and its ruler who started calling himself olubadan in the 1950's used to be called baale until that period.
Needless to say, any discussion of ibadan military might is mere fiction.

Sifia pains
Whether you like it or not, you can't change history.
Ibadan raided Benin for slaves

rhektor:


Was it called korame or Ekonunuame you guys better choose one, na so una twist Odùduwà to Izoduwa, Ekaladerhan Izoduwa etc why do you guys like to jump from one lie to another?
Cc TAO11

If your level of education is beneath masters degree then please don't talk to me, know your place. Internet doesn't make us equals. I have donated enough of my time to uneducated tribal biggots like yourself already.

Nisiw365:

Benindiot in pains
Ibadan raided the whole of Benin and thats why we have Yoruba's in Edo today
All Edo's migrated from ile ife and thats the fact
If not for Yoruba's, Benin population today would have been 10k instead of 500k
So be thankful to Yoruba's at least you have 4 local governments in Edo state today

Always about their poultry population thank God democracy favours over population thats were you lots pride rest on

As soon Nigeria is corruption free and we are practicing true democracy you lot population wilk be useless


Coward of a tribe

gregyboy:



Always about their poultry population thank God democracy favours over population thats were you lots pride rest on

As soon Nigeria is corruption free and we are practicing true democracy you lot population wilk be useless

Coward of a tribe

E pain am. No go commit suicide ooo hahaha

Benin empire with 2 by 2 kingdom of 4 local governments and 500k population

While great Yoruba's are 70 million in population
Yorubas aren't your mate. Go and resume to your kidnapping business

Nisiw365:

E pain am. No go commit suicide ooo hahaha

Benin empire with 2 by 2 kingdom of 4 local governments and 500k population

While great Yoruba's are 70 million in population
Yorubas aren't your mate. Go and resume to your kidnapping business

Fuckoff

Nisiw365:

Sifia pains
Whether you like it or not, you can't change history.
Ibadan raided Benin for slaves

Guys stop talking to this simpleton, this guy doesn't even seem to know that ibadan was just a village lead by a baale.

Let me correct my earlier statement, it seems that it was in the 1930's not the 1950's that the title olubadan was created.

gregyboy:



Fuckoff

Don't descend to their level, you are making them happy, because an emotional response is what trolls are trolling for.

Stoplying:

Guys stop talking to this simpleton, this guy doesn't even seem to know that ibadan was just a village lead by a baale.

Let me correct my earlier statement, it seems that it was in the 1930's not the 1950's that the title olubadan was created.

Shut up and stop ranting like a lunatic that you are

gregyboy:



Fuckoff

E pain am. Kill yourself armed robber

gregyboy:



Always about their poultry population thank God democracy favours over population thats were you lots pride rest on

As soon Nigeria is corruption free and we are practicing true democracy you lot population wilk be useless


Coward of a tribe

Even the numbers they give are always gross exagerations like when the ooni of ife claimed there were 80 million yoruba in brazil. Funny enough, when the british conducted a survey (the only corruption free surveys nigeria ever had) the population of the midwestern region outnumbered the yoruba.

Stoplying:
[s]Re: Lagos Belongs To Benin - Obanikoro's Grandson Declares

https://www.nairaland.com/6365528/lagos-belongs-benin-obanikoros-grandson/22#98149347[/s]

Obanikoro himself debunked that crap.

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2017/05/family-not-benin-says-musiliu-obanikoro/amp/

[s]Captain Horseley called it Eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it; but it is not their land: it belongs to Benin, whom have named it Korame, you can recognise the Curamo from older Portuguese reports, just like Eko represents the Ichoo from Holland Hydrographs. Long ago Korame was linked to its metropolis by a very narrow piece of land contained between the great Laguna and the sea; but it has been a while since the Yebous have seazed that very narrow piece of land of which the eastern extremity was invaded by ouyo pirates; and Karamé remained isolated at the extremity of the great Laguna, while it continues to receive from Benin it's governor or political chief[/s]

Long before now, I have repeatedly pointed out your fraudulent attempt to cover up some very crucial points from the original passage.

(1) The translation which you gave above as “refer to” should actually be given appropriately as “designated” or “named”.

You are much aware that the appropriate translation will shatter your age-long, strongly-held Benin myth that Binis named the island as Eko.

Whereas, it was the Ijebus (the Yorubas) who named the island as Eko according to this account from ‘your own material’ which was published in 1845.


(2) Regarding land ownership: — First of all, the actual area in question is NOT the whole of Lagos as we know it in today’s context.

Rather, the area in question (in this passage) refers to a portion of the area now known as Lagos island — that is, a portion of Lagos-island, i.e. the then Curamo.

Secondly, the actual word used in the passage is NOT “land” as you’ve cunningly translated it.

Rather, the actual translation should have been given correctly as “domain” or “area”. The author is clearly aware of the nuance of using the word “land” and as such have rightfully avoided it.

Thirdly, the author was clearly not talking about the aboriginal ownership of that island — which clearly is of the Aworis (i.e. Yorubas) even according to Benin sources.

What the author was clearly referring to here is about who has the relative right to that specific area (i.e. the relative right to the Curamo island) between two non-aboriginal immigrant groups — namely the Ijebus and the Benins.

In other words, contrary to your misrepresentation, the passage is clearly NOT about aboriginal ownership of land, but rather about two immigrant groups who obviously are in competition with each other over the right to a specific area the island.

#TwistDebunked
——————

Having debunked your misrepresentation and having clarified the truth from that same passage, one may (out of curiosity) then wonder why two different group of immigrants should compete with each other over an area which aboriginally belongs to a different group entirely — i.e. the Awori-Yoruba group.

In answer to this, the indigenous accounts of Lagos history (as well as historical studies) have shown that different immigrant groups began to settling in and around Lagos-island starting from the mid or the late 1500s. This was in order to take advantage of the European trading activities along the Atlantic coast of West Africa which began during that period.

The aboriginal owners of the land granted permission to land to a number of immigrant groups who came to settle in an around Lagos-island for that purpose.

One of such trading groups who came to settle in the area and who was granted permission to land by the natives is the Benin group. This group (as well as the Ijebu group who also came to settle for the same purpose) is well remembered in the Lagos traditions.

The relevant section of this indigenous Lagos account is as may be seen in a publication of a British colonial administrator of Nigeria as follows:

“Whatever may have been the reason, the Binis arrived with no great show of force, and permission was asked of the Lagos people for them to land. This permission was granted, probably with no very good grace, although at the time Lagos island was very sparsely inhabited and there must have been room for many more settlers.”

~ Sir Alan C. Burns, “History of Nigeria,” 1929, p. 43.

Having said that, it is crucial to note that the period of Lagos history described so far is about a century or more prior to the emergence of kingship on Lagos-island.

As such, the phrase “gouverneour au chef politique” in that passage is in respect of the internal political organization of the Benin immigrant group residing on the island, and within the confines of their Benin community — Just as other immigrant groups residing in different parts of the same island obviously have their own leadership.
——————

Folks, for a more faithful translation of that passage, refer below:

“Captain Horseley called it Eko and that is how it was named by the Ijebus; but it is not their area, it is the Benin[‘s], — who refer to it by the name Korame [which is] recognizably the Curamo of the OLDER Portuguese[’s] accounts, as Eko represents the Dutch hydrographers[’s] Ichoo.

Korame and its mainland were linked in the past by a sand-spit between the great lagoon and the sea. However, the Ijebus have, for a long time, seized that sand-spit whose eastern end has also been infiltrated by Ijaw pirates.

Korame therefore remained isolated to the extreme of the great lagoon, and continued to be dependent on Benin for its choice of governor or political leader.”

~ M. D’Avezac, “Notice Sur Le Pays Et Le Peuple Des Yébous En Afrique,” 1845, p. 26.

Peace!

Cc: lifeisgood12, rhektor, nisiw365

TAO11:
Obanikoro himself debunked that crap.

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2017/05/family-not-benin-says-musiliu-obanikoro/amp/

Long before now, I have repeatedly pointed out your fraudulent attempt to cover up some very crucial points from the original passage.

(1) The translation which you gave above as “refer to” should actually be given appropriately as “designated” or “named”.

You are much aware that the appropriate translation will shatter your age-long, strongly-held Benin myth that Binis named the island as Eko.

Whereas, it was the Ijebus (the Yorubas) who named the island as Eko according to this account from ‘your own material’ which was published in 1845.


(2) Regarding land ownership: — First of all, the actual area in question is does NOT refer to Lagos as we know it in our modern context.

Rather, the area in question (in this passage) refers to a portion of the area now known as Lagos island — that is, a portion of Lagos-island, i.e. the then Curamo.

Secondly, the actual word used in the passage is NOT “land” as you’ve cunningly translated it.

Rather, the actual translation should have been given correctly as “domain” or “area”. The author is clearly aware of the nuance of using the word “land” and as such have rightfully avoided it.

Thirdly, the author was clearly not talking about the aboriginal ownership of that island — which clearly is of the Aworis (i.e. the Ijebus) even according to Benin sources.

What the author was clearly referring to here is about who has the relative right to that specific area (i.e. the relative right to the Curamo island) between two non-aboriginal immigrant groups — namely the Ijebus and the Benins.

In other words, contrary to your misrepresentation, the passage is clearly NOT about aboriginal ownership of land, but rather about two immigrant groups who obviously are in competition with each other over the right to a specific area the island.

#TwistDebunked
——————

Having debunked your misrepresentation and having clarified the truth from that same passage, one may (out of curiosity) then wonder why two different group of immigrants should compete with each other over an area which aboriginally belongs to a different group entirely — i.e. the Awori-Yoruba group.

In answer to this, the indigenous accounts of Lagos history (as well as historical studies) have shown that different immigrant groups began to settling in and around Lagos-island starting from the mid or the late 1500s. This is was in order to take advantage of the European trading activities along the Atlantic coast of West Africa which began in that period.

The aboriginal owners of the land granted permission to land to a number of immigrant groups who came to settle in an around Lagos-island for that purpose.

One of such trading groups who came to settle in the area and who was granted permission to land by the natives is the Benin group. This group (followed by the Ijebu group who also came to settle for the same purpose) is well remembered in the Lagos traditions.

The relevant section of this indigenous Lagos account is as may be seen in a publication of a British colonial administrator of Nigeria as follows:

“Whatever may have been the reason, the Binis arrived with no great show of force, and permission was asked of the Lagos people for them to land. This permission was granted, probably with no very good grace, although at the time Lagos island was very sparsely inhabited and there must have been room for many more settlers.”

~ Sir Alan C. Burns, “History of Nigeria,” 1929, p. 43.

Having said that, it is crucial to note that the period of Lagos history described so far is about a century or more prior to the emergence of kingship on Lagos-island.

As such, the mention of “gouveneour au chef politique” in that passage is in respect of the political organization of the Benin immigrant group residing on the island, and within the confines of their Benin community — Just as other immigrant groups residing in a different part of the same island would obviously have its own leadership.
——————

Folks, for a more faithful translation of that passage, refer below:

“Captain Horseley called it Eko and that is how it was designated by the Ijebus; but it is not their area, it is the Benin[‘s], — who refer to it by the name Korame [which is] recognizably the Curamo of the [color=#990000]older Portuguese[’s] accounts, as Eko represents the Dutch hydrographers[’s] Ichoo.

Korame and its mainland were linked in the past by a sand-spit between the great lagoon and the sea. However, the Ijebus have, for a long time, seized that sand-spit whose eastern end has also been infiltrated by Ijaw pirates.

Korame therefore remained isolated to the extreme of the great lagoon, and continued to be dependent on Benin for its choice of governor or political leader.[/color]”

~ M. D’Avezac, “Notice Sur Le Pays Et Le Peuple Des Yébous,” 1845, p. 26.

Peace!

Cc: lifeisgood12, rhektor, nisiw365

I just hope these benidiots won't commit suicide ooo with how you are slammering their heads with facts

gregyboy:
[s]Lol rest well.... All you did was vibrate Goodluck[/s]

Lmao!

I feel your grief from here.

Sorry oo.

https://www.nairaland.com/6482972/name-lagos-called-ekonunuame-benins/6#104321400

Eyewitness writen precolonial text stating clearly that Lagos belongs to Benin:

"Captain Horseley called it Eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it; but it is not their land: it belongs to Benin, whom have named it Korame, you can recognise the Curamo from older Portuguese reports, just like Eko represents the Ichoo from Holland Hydrographs. Long ago Korame was linked to its metropolis by a very narrow piece of land contained between the great Laguna and the sea; but it has been a while since the Yebous have seazed that very narrow piece of land of which the eastern extremity was invaded by ouyo pirates; and Karamé remained isolated at the extremity of the great Laguna, while it continues to receive from Benin it's governor or political chief."

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5806879x.r=Y%C3%A9bou?rk=21459;2

Precolonial map of the region showing that Lagos (in its currents form) and its environs were part of Benin (see below)
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=150215;2


Conclusion: Lagos and its environs were part of Benin.

I am not interested in debating things which have already been proven. Also I am not interested in talking to people whom have been harrassing me. (I also want to add that I am actually the only person whom has commented here who actually speaks french and that I am the person who posted the french caption and the book from which it is to nairaland. Some delusional people who don't speak a word of frecnh were trying to "debate" me on the translation of the text several months ago. Fools can only fool other fools.)

Stoplying:
[s]Eyewitness writen precolonial text stating clearly that Lagos belongs to Benin:

"Captain Horseley called it Eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it; but it is not their land: it belongs to Benin, whom have named it Korame, you can recognise the Curamo from older Portuguese reports, just like Eko represents the Ichoo from Holland Hydrographs. Long ago Korame was linked to its metropolis by a very narrow piece of land contained between the great Laguna and the sea; but it has been a while since the Yebous have seazed that very narrow piece of land of which the eastern extremity was invaded by ouyo pirates; and Karamé remained isolated at the extremity of the great Laguna, while it continues to receive from Benin it's governor or political chief."

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5806879x.r=Y%C3%A9bou?rk=21459;2

Precolonial map of the region showing that Lagos (in its currents form) and its environs were part of Benin (see below)
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=150215;2


Conclusion: Lagos and its environs were part of Benin.

I am not interested in debating things which have already been proven. Also I am not interested in talking to people whom have been harrassing me. (I also want to add that I am actually the only person whom has commented here who actually speaks french and that I am the person who posted the french caption and the book from which it is from to nairaland. Some delusional people who don't speak a word of frecnh were trying to "debate" me on the translation of the text several months ago. Fools can only fool other fools.)[/s]

Your twists were all debunked at the link below:

https://www.nairaland.com/6663008/how-bini-used-sold-igbos/30#104329728

Take heart lad.

"No part of Ekiti was spared the agony of imperialist invasions… The rampaging Benin armies sacked Ogotun, Aramoko, some subordinate communities of Ijero, Ado communities such as Are, Afao, Ugbo (now Ilu) Omoba and Agbado and settled a large percentage of the haul of captives therefrom in Ikere, their garrison post". EDORODION

(1) Did some Eastern-Yoruba areas embattle Benin kingdom at some point in the course of history?? YES!

Hence, this means that Benin kingdom ”ruled” those Eastern Yoruba towns?? Absolute crap!


(2) Did Ogedengbe (from Ilesha) or Aje (from Ibadan) ravage & sack different regions of Benin kingdom at some point in the course of history?? YES!

Hence, this means that Ogedengbe (of Ilesha) or Aje (of Ibadan) “ruled” Benin kingdom [or parts of it] as its emperor??

I would let my Benin rags answer this one.
——————

It takes a strong sense of inferiority complex & stark ignorance to equate Benin kingdom’s incursion (into certain eastern-Yoruba communities) to mean one & the same as Benin’s rulership of those communities.

To help present-day insecure Binis like the one above me, cite the incursion of Ogedengbe into Benin and the incursion of Aje into Benin and ask if it similarly means one and the same thing as rulership of Benin.

See link below for details:

https://www.nairaland.com/6482972/name-lagos-called-ekonunuame-benins/5#104295576

Binis are a laughing stock.

Peace!
—————
PS:
UGBE634 = OGUN622 = OLOKUN175 = EKABA691.

"The line of action they resolved to adopt was to bring all the villages under the ewi to Ikere, settle them there and in this way Ikere would be equal or even bigger than Ado. Ado would then be afraid of Ikere. The Benin soldiers came and sent words to the Ewi Aroloye… He refused to surrender." This can only be the action of a big bro, Benin sent word to you, you did not heed, you are heading for destruction. Real men send words and engage in pure face-off not like Ogendegbe the bandits whose claim to greatness is shrouded in mystery and cowardice. An inferior stool, a vassal (Ikere)sent words to Benin to help settle and mediate over the issues between her and her neighbor. Ikere was a vassal to Benin, She sought the protection of Benin when she was in turmoil as a Vassal would, your attempt to dissuade Benin influence here would only show your level of stark ignorance in the workings of an Empire, You are Ignorant and you should go and read, you are the Ignorant one here Obviously!.
OLOKUN175, EKABA691,OGUN622-Who the Bleep are those

Stoplying:

If your level of education is beneath masters degree then please don't talk to me, know your place. Internet doesn't make us equals. I have donated enough of my time to uneducated tribal biggots like yourself already.

Is this how it is done in the academic circle? Answer the question or admit that you're a bloody liar

LMAO! I actually bullied UGBE into denial mode.

UGBE denied his own monikers which he never uses for commenting, but for liking his own comments as well as his friends’ comments. Haha

Whenever UGBE is done commenting with his UGBE account, he quickly logs in to Nairaland with his liking accounts, viz. OGUN622, OLOKUN175, & EKABA691.

I have caught UGBE doing this on different occasions yesterday. One of the instances is as attached below.

UGBE didn’t even have the wisdom to alter the style of his secret liking monikers despite knowing that he does not want to be associated with those monikers.

I am glad that I conquered a Bini miscreant into denial. I would have been shocked and ‘hurt’ if you had admitted the truth.

A Bini man was conquered psychologically by a Yooba lady. I’m beginning to suspect that I have been bestowed with the spirit/power of Oranmiyan.

Haha

Cc: rhektor, lifeisgood12, nisiw365

UGBE634:
"The line of action they resolved to adopt was to bring all the villages under the ewi to Ikere, settle them there and in this way Ikere would be equal or even bigger than Ado. Ado would then be afraid of Ikere. The Benin soldiers came and sent words to the Ewi Aroloye… He refused to surrender." This can only be the action of a big bro, Benin sent word to you, you did not heed, you are heading for destruction. Real men send words and engage in pure face-off not like Ogendegbe the bandits whose claim to greatness is shrouded in mystery and cowardice. An inferior stool, a vassal (Ikere)sent words to Benin to help settle and mediate over the issues between her and her neighbor. Ikere was a vassal to Benin, She sought the protection of Benin when she was in turmoil as a Vassal would, your attempt to dissuade Benin influence here would only show your level of stark ignorance in the workings of an Empire, You are Ignorant and you should go and read, you are the Ignorant one here Obviously!.
OLOKUN175, EKABA691,OGUN622-Who the Bleep are those

The Edos were invited by Ogoga, the third time the Edos were so invited to settle the quarrel between Ado and Ikere.

The rampaging Benin armies sacked Ogotun, Aramoko, some subordinate communities of Ijero, Ado communities such as Are, Afao, Ugbo (now Ilu) Omoba and Agbado and settled a large percentage of the haul of captives therefrom in Ikere, their garrison post.

FACTS:
Ikere :- A community covering an area of less than 78 square miles.

Benin :- A bigger kingdom covering an area of about 6,500 square miles.

CONCLUSION:
Benin kingdom is gReAt.

Why?

Benin is gReAt because Ikere invited Benin for dispute arbitration. [literally]

ME:
What more proof does anyone need to realize that Binis have actually been conquered psychologically by the Yorubas?

Oranmiyan, you finish work oo.

Cc: rhektor.

Ikere was a vassal and that is that, Don't cry now it's what it is, I don't know what you are talking about . Accusing me is only trying to save face and dissuade attention from the argument. I have complained about your low level of comprehension, you should work on it as well as your self esteem

.

Ikere wasn't just a vassal to Benin, Benin actually had a military garrison there just the way Benin had military presence in all her areas of interest including Lagos.

Benin military garrison in Lagos, 1603 Dutchman eyewitness accounts.


The relevant passage in Andreas Ulsheimer's account from 1603, is the following:

"Forty miles from Benin lies a large town called Lago [Lagos], which also belongs to the King of Benin. It lies on an island and is a frontier town, surrounded by a strong fence. In it live none but soldiers and four military commanders, who behave in a very stately manner. Every day they come together in the king's house and make a sacrifice every morning. After the sacrifice, they hold court in the open air, in front of the king's house. Whoever has anything to complain about makes his complaint. They all fall on their knees when they present their case, and when one man is given a verdict in his favour, he thanks the authorities and the king. Also, two envoys always stand with the judge and listen to what is done. Every day these two send news off to the king, informing him of what the judges have done that day. They do this throughout the whole year. This is practiced not only in Lago, but also in other towns of the king, as well as in Benin itself. Many people come to the aforesaid town Lago, by water and by land, with their wares, which consist of beautiful cotton cloths woven in all kinds of colours and patterns." - Andreas Ulsheimer's voyage of 1603-4, translation by Adam Jones in German Sources for West African History, 1599-1669 (1983), pp. 40-41

The "forty miles" would be either German miles or perhaps Dutch miles (Ulsheimer was a German, but he was working for the Dutch), not English miles.

At that time, the king of Benin, presumably one of the "warrior-kings" of Benin tradition - most likely either Orhogbua or Ehengbuda - was campaigning directly in the Lagos area (something which Egharevba, who had no idea about Ulsheimer's account, also claimed independently on the basis of tradition in his works on Benin history centuries later) and the "king's house" in "Lago" that Ulsheimer refers to is a reference to his residence there while on campaign. Ulsheimer gives a very brief description of the Benin palace, in Benin City, separately from this, in another part of his account (given on p. 37 of the book by Adam Jones cited above), and so the "king's house" that he mentions in that passage is not a reference to the royal palace, but to a certain royal building in "Lago".

samuk:
Ikere wasn't just a vassal to Benin, Benin actually had a military garrison there just the way Benin had military presence in all her areas of interest including Lagos.

Benin military garrison in Lagos 1603 Dutchman eyewitness accounts.


The relevant passage in Andreas Ulsheimer's account from 1603, is the following:

"Forty miles from Benin lies a large town called Lago [Lagos], which also belongs to the King of Benin. It lies on an island and is a frontier town, surrounded by a strong fence. In it live none but soldiers and four military commanders, who behave in a very stately manner. Every day they come together in the king's house and make a sacrifice every morning. After the sacrifice, they hold court in the open air, in front of the king's house. Whoever has anything to complain about makes his complaint. They all fall on their knees when they present their case, and when one man is given a verdict in his favour, he thanks the authorities and the king. Also, two envoys always stand with the judge and listen to what is done. Every day these two send news off to the king, informing him of what the judges have done that day. They do this throughout the whole year. This is practiced not only in Lago, but also in other towns of the king, as well as in Benin itself. Many people come to the aforesaid town Lago, by water and by land, with their wares, which consist of beautiful cotton cloths woven in all kinds of colours and patterns." - Andreas Ulsheimer's voyage of 1603-4, translation by Adam Jones in German Sources for West African History, 1599-1669 (1983), pp. 40-41

The "forty miles" would be either German miles or perhaps Dutch miles (Ulsheimer was a German, but he was working for the Dutch), not English miles.

At that time, the king of Benin, presumably one of the "warrior-kings" of Benin tradition - most likely either Orhogbua or Ehengbuda - was campaigning directly in the Lagos area (something which Egharevba, who had no idea about Ulsheimer's account, also claimed independently on the basis of tradition in his works on Benin history centuries later) and the "king's house" in "Lago" that Ulsheimer refers to is a reference to his residence there while on campaign. Ulsheimer gives a very brief description of the Benin palace, in Benin City, separately from this, in another part of his account (given on p. 37 of the book by Adam Jones cited above), and so the "king's house" that he mentions in that passage is not a reference to the royal palace, but to a certain royal building in "Lago".

Not only is she dead brain, She is also so myopic and shallow in thought and is certainly deprived of understanding. That's why I brought out Those letters bit by bit for her to see what is written clearly there
First she wrote no part of eastern yorubaland was under the Bini Empire. then you brought out that piece I know she must have been shocked and was trying to downplay Bini's influence there.
She also forgot that those areas were wrestled from the Ewi and was given to the Ogoga who his masters won the battle. At best her delusion would only sting her and those around her not learned

UGBE634:
Not only is she dead brain, She is also so myopic and shallow in thought and is certainly deprived of understanding. That's why I brought out Those letters bit by bit for her to see what is written clearly there
First she wrote no part of eastern yorubaland was under the Bini Empire. then you brought out that piece I know she must have been shocked and was trying to downplay Bini's influence there.
She was also forgot that those areas were wrestled from the Ewi and was given to the Ogoga who his masters won the battle. At best her delusion would only sting her and those around her not learned

Her inferiority complex and low self esteem is her undoing, this is why she continue to lie even in the face of overwhelming eyewitness evidence.

There is nothing to be ashamed about if her people were ones colonised/influenced by Benin. Benin was the America of it's time in Nigeria. Even great Britain and America themselves were ones colonised but you will not see their people denying it.

She also have comprehension problems and I like the way you serialised the historical narrative to her because the long write up may have overwhelmed her.

TAO11:
LMAO! I actually bullied UGBE into denial mode.

UGBE denied his own monikers which he never uses for commenting, but for liking his own comments as well as his friends’ comments. Haha

Whenever UGBE is done commenting with his UGBE account, he quickly logs in to Nairaland with his liking accounts, viz. OGUN622, OLOKUN175, & EKABA691.

I have caught UGBE doing this on different occasions yesterday. One of the instances is as attached below.

UGBE didn’t even have the wisdom to alter the style of his secret liking monikers despite knowing that he does not want to be associated with those monikers.

I am glad that I conquered a Bini miscreant into denial. I would have been shocked and ‘hurt’ if you had admitted the truth.

A Bini man was conquered psychologically by a Yooba lady. I’m beginning to suspect that I have been bestowed with the spirit/power of Oranmiyan.

Haha

Cc: rhektor, lifeisgood12, nisiw365

Thats their way. Same as Edeyoung, gregyboy, etc

samuk:
Ikere wasn't just a vassal to Benin, Benin actually had a military garrison there

One would have expected the supposed vAsSaL states to have been summoned by Benin (in order for Benin to arbitrate between them), not the other way round.

Isn’t it interesting to even you that sUzErAiN Benin was caused by its vAsSaL state(s) (either via invitation or via summon) to leave Benin city? In fact, please tell me more about these omnipotent vAsSaLs.

just the way Benin had military presence in all her areas of interest including Lagos.

Benin military garrison in Lagos 1603 Dutchman eyewitness accounts.

What gArRiSoN? LMAO!

I could swear you’ve never set your eyes on what the complete account of Ulsheimer looks like. Stop relying on partial internet quotations which always lands you in humiliation, as will be done below again.

I will focus only on the actual quotation and not ‘your’ side commentary which is full assumptions and more assumptions.

The relevant passage in Andreas Ulsheimer's account from 1603, is the following:

"Forty miles from Benin lies a large town called Lago, which also belongs to the King of Benin. It lies on an island and is a frontier town, surrounded by a strong fence. In it live none but soldiers and four military commanders, who behave in a very stately manner. Every day they come together in the king's house and make a sacrifice every morning. After the sacrifice, they hold court in the open air, in front of the king's house. Whoever has anything to complain about makes his complaint. They all fall on their knees when they present their case, and when one man is given a verdict in his favour, he thanks the authorities and the king. Also, two envoys always stand with the judge and listen to what is done. Every day these two send news off to the king, informing him of what the judges have done that day. They do this throughout the whole year. This is practiced not only in Lago, but also in other towns of the king, as well as in Benin itself. Many people come to the aforesaid town Lago, by water and by land, with their wares, which consist of beautiful cotton cloths woven in all kinds of colours and patterns.” - Andreas Ulsheimer's voyage of 1603-4, translation by Adam Jones in German Sources for West African History, 1599-1669 (1983), pp. 40-41

•••

(1) This report was written by A. J. Ulsheimer who was the surgeon for a trade voyage that visited the coast of west Africa between late-1603 and early-1604.


(2) His report doesn’t say a word about present-day Lagos as a whole.

Instead, his report relates only to one of the islands of present-day Lagos.

Nothing is said about the other islands, or the mainland, or elsewhere.

This fact is clear from the words: “It lies on an island”.

~ Refer to the passage for this line and its context.

(3) His report indicates that on this very island alone, there are more than one town.

And he named out one of these towns (on this very island) as “Lago”.

These facts are clear from the words: “Many people come to the aforesaid town Lago, by water and by land,”.

~ Refer to the passage for this line and its context.

Town Lago is a town located on an island. An island is surrounded by a water-body.

As such, whoever comes to that town “Lago” by water must have paddled (or swam) from some other town which is not on that same island.

However, whoever comes to that town “Lago” by land must have walked (or rode) from other town/s which are located on that same island.

His report clear says people also came to town “Lago” by land, this thus means that there are other town/s on that same island.

(4) Ulsheimer’s report notes that this specific town Lago belongs to Benin.

~ Refer to the passage for this line and its context.

Did Benin come to acquire their portion of that island by virtue of some aboriginal right, or by forceful take over, or by conferment from the native owners?

Considering each of these above means of ownership in turns:

(A) Whether or not Benins’ ownership of their portion of that island resulted from some aboriginal right is silent from Ulsheimer’s report. However, both Lagos and Benin traditions admit that this island (and beyond) is the aboriginal property of the Aworis.

As such, their later ownership of their portion of the island was clearly not as a result of some aboriginal right. They’re not the aboriginals of that specific area.

(B) Did Benin’s ownership of its portion of that island result from a forceful take-over?

Firstly, it must stressed that as at the time of his visit to the coast of West Africa (sometimes between late 1603 & early1604), Ulsheimer found that the Benins were already settled on the island — specifically in their portion of the island, i.e., in town “Lago”.

In other words, he did not witness how their predecessors originally came from Benin to settle on that island in the mid/late-1500s.

In fact, as at the time of his visit, the Benins had long built their portion of that island into a strong-walled town which also has a working, year in, year out internal political/religious system.

Ulsheimer therefore could not possibly have given an eyewitness account of how those Binis’ predecessors settled into that island originally in the 1500s.

Although he met them there living as an armed unit in 1603-4; this living condition of the year 1603-4 does not provide any useful information as to how their predecessors originally settled in there in the 1500s.

It is very likely that their living condition of 1603-4, was in response to a relatively new development which requires nothing but a military response.

Is there any corroboration, from Ulsheimer’s report, for this being the case?? The answer to this question is a big, fat YES!

On page 24 of the same material, Ulsheimer alludes to another Benin-settled town (different from Lago).

The location of this second town is unspecified except that it appears (from Ulsheimer’s report) that it also lie somewhere near the Atlantic coast, but closer to Lagos region than to Benin region.

The report continues to say that the subjects there (unlike those at town Lago) had rebelled against their oba — their Benin king.

As a result, the subjects at the town Lago were tasked with the duty of returning them back to status quo.

This report continues to show that those subjects at Lago (acting on behalf of their oba) asked Ulsheimer’s team for assistance when his trading team arrived at the Lagos region.

They approached his team for help because they had not been able to conquer the said Benin-settled rebel town prior to his (and his team’s) arrival.

The Binis of Lago had particularly found it difficult to conquer this second town because it is also a walled town like town Lago, and the Binis of town Lago have no canons.

In any case, it is impossible to know how precisely the predecessors settled there in the 1500s based on the living formation of the successors of c.1603.

As has just been recalled from page 24 however, the only event specified in the text as a plausible reason for their successors’ military-life formation in c.1603 is the task that they must return a certain Benin town (which had recently rebelled) back to status quo.

This foregoing indication from Ulsheimer’s report is in clear and almost shocking agreement with Lagos traditions which was first recorded about 200 years later.

Lagos traditions maintain that that the Binis settled in the island peacefully & amicably after having gotten permission to land from the native owners.

The Lagos accounts continue that that it was not until some time long after they had settled peacefully that they now began to be involved in some skirmishes.

The following is a quotation of the Lagos accounts as may be seen in the publication of a British officer:

“Some little time after the Olofin's death there began the peaceful penetration into Lagos of settlers from Benin. The Binis probably realised that they would not be able to occupy Lagos by force, as they had already been so decisively beaten in their attacks on Iddo, and it is thought that they were also prevented from further aggression by superstitious fear, the dying wife of the Olofin having pronounced a terrible curse on any further invaders from Benin. Whatever may have been the reason, the Binis arrived with no great show of force, and permission was asked of the Lagos people for them to land. This permission was granted, probably with no very good grace, although at that time Lagos island was very sparsely inhabited and there must have been room for many more settlers. … Some time after, the Binis began to attack the people on the mainland, and the leader of one of their marauding parties dying at Isheri, his remains were conveyed to Benin by one of the Isheri chiefs named Ashipa, who was anxious to secure the favour of the powerful King of Benin. ”

~ Sir Alan C. Burns, “History of Nigeria,” 1929, p.43.

SUMMARY
The Benin’s ownership relates (not to the island as a whole, but) to a portion of it which was conferred to it by the native owners themselves.

This is what is meant when Ulsheimer’s account says that the town Lago (a portion of today’s Lagos-island) “belongs to” Benin — that is, they own[ed] what was conferred on them.

APPENDIX
These events of 1603-4 cited from Ulsheimer actually took place about eighty (80) years before the present Èkó dynasty was founded by Ashipa (the Awori noble from Isheri) the father of Ado.

Peace!
Cc: rhektor, lifeisgood12, nisiw365, LegendHero, macof.

TAO11:
One would have expected the supposed vAsSaL states to have be summoned by Benin in order for Benin to arbitrate between them.

It is somehow shocking that a whole suzerain state was caused by its vAsSaL state(s) (either via invitation or via summon) to leave Benin city. Interesting! Tell me more about these omnipotent vAsSaLs.

You couldn't even see that the favoured one was the Ogoga, That she was invited by this same Ogoga because the Ogoga was under her. "The line of action they resolved to adopt was to bring all the villages under the ewi to Ikere, settle them there and in this way Ikere would be equal or even bigger than Ado". The contention here was not Ikere, The contention here for the Benin kingdom was to reduce the size of Ado which was obviously bigger than Ikere, and as a result oppressed her. The line of action was to destroy Ado which they successfully did and brought all the communities under her to Ikere so 78 miles won't fly. so much for your 'scholar' when you are bereft of the basics such as understanding

UGBE634:
[s]You couldn't even see that the favoured one was the Ogoga, That she was invited by this same Ogoga because the Ogoga was under her The line of action they resolved to adopt was to bring all the villages under the ewi to Ikere, settle them there and in this way Ikere would be equal or even bigger than Ado". The contention here was not Ikere, The contention here for the Benin kingdom was to reduce the size of Ado which was obviously bigger than Ikere, and as a result oppressed her. The line of action was to destroy Ado which they successfully did and brought all the communities under her to Ikere so 78 kilometres won't fly.[/s]

Yes, I saw how the vAsSal (Ikere) summoned the sUzErAin (Benin) for dispute duties. Haha

I also saw how Ogedengbe destroyed Benin kingdom so badly that he had to be appeased by your oba.

Benin miscreants with inferiority complex will search anywhere for relevance — even inside pit-latrine.

TAO11:
One would have expected the supposed vAsSaL states to have be summoned by Benin in order for Benin to arbitrate between them.

It is somehow shocking that a whole suzerain state was caused by its vAsSaL state(s) (either via invitation or via summon) to leave Benin city. Interesting! Tell me more about these omnipotent vAsSaLs.

What gArRison? LMAO!

I could swear you’ve never set your eyes on what the complete account of Ulsheimer looks like. Stop relying on partial internet quotations which always lands you in humiliation, as will be done below again.

I will focus only on the actual quotation and not ‘your’ side commentary which is full assumptions and more assumptions.

(1) This account was collected by Andreas Joshua Ulsheimer who was the surgeon of a trade voyage which visited the coast of West Africa sometimes between late 1603 & early 1604.

(2) His report actually doesn’t say a word about present-day Lagos as a whole. Instead, his report alludes only to one of the islands on present-day Lagos. Nothing is said about the mainland and the other islands.

This fact is clear from the words: “It lies on an island”

(3) Furthermore, his account continues to show that on this said island, there are some towns, one of which is a town whose name he recorded as “Lago”.

This fact is clear from the words: “a … town called Lago … lies on an island and is a frontier town”

In other words, the town “Lago” is a frontier town, i.e. a town which lies in-between two other towns — that is, it lies exactly on the border of two other towns.

This same conclusion (that there is more than one town on this particular island) can also be reached from the words: “Many people come to … town Lago, by water and by land”

Given the fact that some people come to this town Lago by land [and this town is on an island], the logical implication then become obvious.

That is, those who come to the town Lago by land are people who reside on that same island, but in a different town of that island.

In conclusion, according to Ulsheimer’s account, Lago is NOT the only town on that island. There were other towns on that very island.

(4) Ulsheimer’s account notes that this specific town Lago (NOT any other town on that very island, nor any other town on any of the other islands, nor any town on the mainland) belongs to Benin.

Did Benin come to acquire their portion of that island by virtue of aboriginal right, or by forceful take over, or by conferment from the native aboriginal owners?

Considering each of these above means of ownership carefully and in turns:

(A) Whether or not Benins’ ownership of their portion of that island resulted from some aboriginal right is silent from Ulsheimer’s account. However, both Lagos and Benin traditions admit that this island (and beyond) is the aboriginal property of the Aworis.

(B) Did Benin’s ownership of its portion of that island result from a forceful take-over?

Firstly, it must stressed that as at the time of his visit to the coast of West Africa sometimes between late 1603 & early 1604; Ulsheimer already found that the Benins were already settled on the island, specifically in their portion of the island — that is, in town Lago.

In other words, he could not have possibly witnessed how their predecessors originally came from Benin to settle on that island in the mid/late-1500s. In fact, as at the time of his visit, the Benins had long built their portion of that island into a walled town which has a tested, year in, year out internal political/religious system.

Ulsheimer’s account is therefore silent on how the predecessors of the 1603-4 Benins of Lago came to originally settle on that island in the first place in the mid/late-1500s — a forceful takeover or a peaceful infiltration?

Furthermore, in the year 1603-4, Ulsheimer met the then Benins of Lago living as a military unit within their portion of that island — i.e. within the confines of the walls of town Lagos.

Does this not establish that their predecessors (who came originally from Benin to settle on this island in the mid/late-1500s) actually settled-in via a forceful takeover in the 1500s??

The 1500s events can not be established for certain on the basis of the events of 1603-4. In fact, what seems plausible is that their condition (as a military unit) as observed by Ulsheimer in the year 1603-4 was in response to a relatively new situation which demanded nothing but a military intervention.

In other words, the plausible scenario is that their predecessors (who came originally from Benin in the 1500s) actually settled-in peacefully into the island; but that they (their successors) only began to later live as a military unit because they were attempting to respond militarily to a relatively fresh situation that called for nothing but a military response.

Is there any corroboration for this foregoing scenario in Ulsheimer’s account?? And the answer is a big, fat YES!

On page 24 of the same material, Ulsheimer alludes to another Benin-settled town (apart from Lago). The location of this second town is unspecified except to the extent that it appears to also lie somewhere near the Atlantic coast, but apparently closer to the Lagos region than to the Benin region.

This account continues to show that the subjects there (unlike those at town Lago) happened to have “rebelled” against their oba. As a result, the subjects at town Lago were tasked with the duty of returning them back to status quo.

This account continues to show that those subjects at the town Lago (acting on behalf of their oba) asked Ulsheimer’s team for help (when his trading team got to the Lagos area) since they by themselves could not easily conquer” the said Benin-settled rebel town — because like “Lago” this town too is “walled”; and the town Lago residents have no canon.

In conclusion:
While it is impracticable to definitively establish the condition under which their predecessors originally came to settle in the island in the 1500s on the basis of the successors’ living formation in the year 1603-4; the account Ulsheimer does point to the fact that the military formation in which these successor lived in the year 1603-4 was in response to a relatively fresh situation which called for nothing but such response.

(C) In the light of the foregoing analysis what becomes clear is the fact that Ulsheimer’s account is silent about the condition under which the predecessors of the 1603-4 Lago Binis came originally to settle in into that island. He also couldn’t have been a witness to such event from the 1500s.

It is also clear from his account that the 1603-4 Lago Binis were living in a military formation because they
have been attempting to respond militarily to a fresh situation that called for nothing but such.

This foregoing information from Ulsheimer’s account does corroborate the Lagos traditions (rather than the Benin traditions which came later) quoted below::

“Some little time after the Olofin's death there began the peaceful penetration into Lagos of settlers from Benin. The Binis probably realised that they would not be able to occupy Lagos by force, as they had already been so decisively beaten in their attacks on Iddo, and it is thought that they were also prevented from further aggression by superstitious fear, the dying wife of the Olofin having pronounced a terrible curse on any further invaders from Benin. Whatever may have been the reason, the Binis arrived with no great show of force, and permission was asked of the Lagos people for them to land. This permission was granted, probably with no very good grace, although at that time Lagos island was very sparsely inhabited and there must have been room for many more settlers.” ~ Sir A. C. Burns, “History of Nigeria,” 1929, p.43.

In summary, the Benin ownership relates only to one portion of the island — that is, a town called Lago to the exclusion of other towns on the island & beyond.

The Benin ownership of town Lago is the results of a granted permission to land which was sought by the Binis from the Yoruba owners of the island.

Their living condition (within the walls of their portion of the island) — in the year 1603-4 — as a military unit did not begin with their predecessors, but was in response to a relatively new situation that called for military intervention.

Peace!
Cc: rhektor, lifeisgood12, nisiw365, LegendHero, macof.

After accusing me of inserting my opinions and assumptions. You now left the historical narrative that was mostly qouted verbatim and went on a long epistle of your own opinions and assumptions, something you criticised me of doing.

The historical narratives I am presenting are for those that can make use of their thinking capabilities, not for you. I would have been very surprised if you have jumped this one without commenting.

According to you:

1. Benin was peacefully invited to Lagos, infact Benin begged for a small piece of land, waving white flags whilst begging. But you forget that they went there with a barracks load of soldiers.

2. The Alaafin also peacefully invited Benin to come and put down the rebels that was threatening his domain.

3. The Ikere people peacefully summoned Benin to mediate in a dispute. You also forget Benin went there with such military force that the demography of the areas changed forever. Traditional rulers lost their heads.

You would have liked everyone to believe that Benin never crossed Ore town if not for the overwhelming evidences.