LordReed:


Then agree that the change spoken about is the change of mind which does not include a change of Being.

I already stated that "There is Change of Mind that brings about a change of Being AND there is change of mind which does not include a change of Being, as I have given you the natural examples of the differences and it's application thereof!

So it is settled already!

Dtruthspeaker:


I already stated that "There is Change of Mind that brings about a change of Being AND there is change of mind which does not include a change of Being, as I have given you the natural examples of the differences and it's application thereof!

So it is settled already!

Yes it is settled that it is change of mind which does not include a change of Being.

budaatum:


Despite God's evolution not detailed in a single verse or chapter, God's changing nature is replete throughout the God book, the hugest being from wrathful Yahweh to forgiving Christ to the explaining Holy Spirit that are all supposedly within us humans. We just have not yet evolved to see (or accept) it yet.

It requires reading the God book from the beginning page by page to the end to understand and see God evolved over time, but many despite claimimg to have never done so, reading a la carte instead.

The beginning of Wisdom is not fear, however, but the understanding of God, which most have not yet bothered to ask and knock and seek for. But glory to God that is changing as threads as these show.

As usual my dear buda you bring the soothing balm of understanding.

Workch:
I wonder why you still debate pelecius. Can’t you see he doesn’t understand anything outside of the Bible?

I stopped taking him seriously when he said there’s evidence for speciation and adaptation but none for evolution. The most ignorant statement I have read on nairaland.
I showed that statement to my nephew currently taking his NECO exams and we haven’t gotten over the comedy yet.

Not bad.
You are the knowledgeable one here, but all I asked was to provide evidence of how we will get complex organisms from simpler ones using those mechanisms?

My prediction: there won't be a response to the question

Pelecius:

Not bad.
You are the knowledgeable one here, but all I asked was to provide evidence of how we will get complex organisms from simpler ones using those mechanisms?

My prediction: there won't be a response to the question

You are stupid, you believe in speciation and still asking this question.

Did you read half baked speciation? Can’t you see how stupid the question is?

LordReed:


Yeah because that was not my argument so I don't know why you brought it up.








Talking about the god not aging, is this the not changing you mean?



The same Jesus that became a human being? What is unchanging here?

I used the argument to show you the context of my discussion with him, since you seem to want to come to his rescue.


Yeah, both Psalms talks of him remaining the same - not changing with age; while others hint on his unchanging nature

You may want to see it the way you a want, but Jesus adding humanity to himself does not change his divine nature. So I don't know what you are trying to achieve

Workch:
You are stupid, you believe in speciation and still asking this question.

Did you read half baked speciation? Can’t you see how stupid the question is?

Lol

LordReed:


As usual my dear buda you bring the soothing balm of understanding.

I must say it's out of frustration at people like you my Lord arguing with those who have not read their God book or just don't understand what they've read, and the annoyance at them telling others to ignorantly believe as they do.

Thankfully, many have had the mud of enlightenment rubbed in their eyes so believing is impossible. They just need bath in the pool so that they may see. You however must have compassion for those who know not what they do, because you know how hard it is to know and understand if it is feared that knowing would result in their death instead of prolonging their existence on this earth as it actually does.

Pelecius:

Lol

Lol

If you are asking such question even after saying you understand speciation then you are irredeemably ignorant. We seriously need to question your knowledge of adaptation and speciation.

From the moment you replied that there’s evidence for speciation and adaptation but none for evolution, I just gave up . The ignorance can’t get worse

Dtruthspeaker:


You are arguing with Satan himself. He will always seek to speak against Natural Truths when it is against him that is what we are warning you about.

And he is the lord recruiter of all the Haters of God in here hiding under the name 'Atheist'!

I am happy for your concern and really appreciate it.
We had a long discussion one time like that (you actually warned earlier too), and I got to understand some of his debating techniques.
I won't dabble into any unnecessary argument since I'm familiar with him and can predict the outcome

LordReed:


You are talking to me and responding to what others have said instead of engaging what I said, that is as prejudiced as they come.

Others have similarly written millions of works on why the gospels are not reliable sources for proving supernatural powers attributed to historical figures. Go read them too so we can discuss it.

Again, that is what you believe about me. And I don't know how to move here and there when discussing, so I must stick to the topic.

Fine!
I'm not ready to engage in unfruitful discussion. I only discuss most times, to clear up misunderstanding. I won't engage in what I know would lead to no where

Pelecius:

I used the argument to show you the context of my discussion with him, since you seem to want to come to his rescue.

See what I am saying, why responding to someone else when I told you I am not answering for him.

Yeah, both Psalms talks of him remaining the same - not changing with age; while others hint on his unchanging nature

You may want to see it the way you a want, but Jesus adding humanity to himself does not change his divine nature. So I don't know what you are trying to achieve

I want to understand what you mean by unchanging. Is Jesus still human?

Pelecius:

Again, that is what you believe about me. And I don't know how to move here and there when discussing, so I must stick to the topic.

Fine!
I'm not ready to engage in unfruitful discussion. I only discuss most times, to clear up misunderstanding. I won't engage in what I know would lead to no where

I stayed on the point I was making while you were talking about something else.

LMAO! So to reading differing opinions is unfruitful but you want me to do so, what a laugh.

Pelecius:

I am happy for your concern and really appreciate it.
We had a long discussion one time like that (you actually warned earlier too), and I got to understand some of his debating techniques.
I won't dabble into any unnecessary argument since I'm familiar with him and can predict the outcome

Oh okay!

Workch:
I wonder why you still debate pelecius. Can’t you see he doesn’t understand anything outside of the Bible?

I stopped taking him seriously when he said there’s evidence for speciation and adaptation but none for evolution. The most ignorant statement I have read on nairaland.
I showed that statement to my nephew currently taking his NECO exams and we haven’t gotten over the comedy yet.

It's when we dicuss that such miseducation gets revealed and we can tackle it but it is funny though.

LordReed:


It's when we dicuss that such miseducation gets revealed and we can tackle it but it is funny though.

Yes, I swear

How can someone even think of believing in speciation and adaptation but not in evolution? Even after I tried explaining to him how that doesn’t make sense, pelecius stull didn’t get it and not even willing to understand the gaffe.

Workch:
Yes, I swear

How can someone even think of believing in speciation and adaptation but not in evolution? Even after I tried explaining to him how that doesn’t make sense, pelecius stull didn’t get it and not even willing to understand the gaffe.

It's cognitive dissonance plus being afraid to open that door, they can feel their faith quaking.

Workch:
Lol

If you are asking such question even after saying you understand speciation then you are irredeemably ignorant. We seriously need to question your knowledge of adaptation and speciation.

From the moment you replied that there’s evidence for speciation and adaptation but none for evolution, I just gave up . The ignorance can’t get worse

Very funny indeed
It baffles me that "intelligent folks" are ignorant of the fact that empirical evidence of speciation is mostly accompanied by loss of information from a more general ancestor, and that no newly formed specie is more complex than it's ancestor.

And I have been asking our "learned" one to provide evidence for the contrary - from simpler to complex, through such mechanism. What followed was adhominem.

It's just a question bro. You are the informed one, simply provide answer

LordReed:


See what I am saying, why responding to someone else when I told you I am not answering for him.



I want to understand what you mean by unchanging. Is Jesus still human?

You are always using this tactic and I gave a simple analogy to show why I can't play by your game.
And you were clearly deflecting what I was talking about and I had to clear that up

Bro, I explained already that "but Jesus adding humanity to himself does not change his divine nature." So what are you asking? I guess the statement is easy enough to comprehend

Pelecius:

Very funny indeed
It baffles me that "intelligent folks" are ignorant of the fact that empirical evidence of speciation is mostly accompanied by loss of information from a more general ancestor, and that no newly formed specie is more complex than it's ancestor.

And I have been asking our "learned" one to provide evidence for the contrary - from simpler to complex, through such mechanism. What followed was adhominem.

It's just a question bro. You are the informed one, simply provide answer

but the answer is in the speciation and adaptation you said you believe in.

I believe in speciation and adaptation but not in evolution is like saying “thank god I don’t believe in god”. Just so funny

Pelecius:

Very funny indeed
It baffles me that "intelligent folks" are ignorant of the fact that empirical evidence of speciation is mostly accompanied by loss of information from a more general ancestor, and that no newly formed specie is more complex than it's ancestor.

And I have been asking our "learned" one to provide evidence for the contrary - from simpler to complex, through such mechanism. What followed was adhominem.

It's just a question bro. You are the informed one, simply provide answer

Really?
Have ever entered a lab?

No be only loss of information

Workch:
Yes, I swear

How can someone even think of believing in speciation and adaptation but not in evolution? Even after I tried explaining to him how that doesn’t make sense, pelecius stull didn’t get it and not even willing to understand the gaffe.

Clearly defining terms will avoid the use of equivocation.
I don't owe you explanation of why evolution cannot be equated to speciation and adaptation. Just as all top bonds are adhesive, but it'll be fallacious to say adhesive is top bond.
Evolution tells us that every life forms can be traced back to a universal common ancestor (which is a simpler life forms). Now the question has been that you should provide evidence of how a simpler life form can become complex using speciation and adaptation to evolution, especially that you are equating the mechanisms to evolution.

Just evidence of simple to complex. Not asking too much

Workch:
It’s no surprise that I am an atheist, but one thing people don’t know about me is that I was a Christian for 28years. Yes 28years.

I was not just a Christian, I had full membership in my church and was a member of the choir. I was born into a Christian home, we had morning and evening devotions everyday as a child. My dad personally tried indoctrinating us a lot, we read the Bible every single day and then he explains but seriously even as a child a lot of the stories didn’t add up but I was scared that I was being blasphemous.
I remember a day my dad was teaching us about Noah’s flood and then we got to that point where god said he’s using the rainbow as a sign to remind humanity that he would never destroy earth with flood. Even as a 9years old, that part didn’t make sense to me, because I see it in the news frequently of flood destroying farms, properties and even killing people. I asked my dad and he didn’t give me a reasonable explanation.
As a teenager, I started teaching Sunday school to kids in church, I taught them that god never change but in my mind, I wasn’t convinced because while reading the Bible, there many instances of god changing his mind and even regretting his decisions. I always think about it that the god of Old Testament seems different from what is portrayed in the New Testament, something changed. I kept a lot of things to myself because people around were so religious and would quickly rebuke me for such reasoning.
As time goes on, I joined the choir, I learn drums and keyboard, I sang choir ministrations and even wrote songs for my church choir. All these while, it wasn’t clear, I was just scared to come out fully.

I got admitted into the university to study biochemistry. Being someone that is very inquisitive, I started asking so many questions in respect to the relationship between living organisms. After having background knowledge in genetics, molecular biology and biological metabolism, it was clear that every living thing are the same basically. At this point, I didn’t even understand the theory of evolution properly but I had seen the a fairly clear picture. I had to go back and then study the theory of evolution properly (took weeks), because the impression I had from secondary school was that an ape turned into human. Our biology teachers, just like every other biology teachers in Nigerian schools, were so bad at teaching the theory of evolution. Seems like a lot of them didn’t even understand it.

Fast forward, I graduated, I still believed god existed. since after I properly studied the theory of evolution, I started holding the notion that God presided over evolution and the Bible is somehow consistent with the theory of evolution. This idea was born out of the sheer fear of not wanting to sound blasphemous to my beloved ones. After I graduated, I started reading wide, I didn’t like physics in school but I started reading physics (specifically quantum and astrophysics), I discovered about Big Bang theory, theory of relativity, string theory etc, it took a lot of time before I could grasp them but when I did, it became clearer that the Bible is not consistent with anything in reality.

It was difficult for me to accept this truth because I didn’t want to be seen as a blasphemer, not until I had the opportunity to run my masters degree abroad in clinical biochemistry. I met with lot of renown and brilliant people in the field of biochemistry. They were realistic in their beliefs and will not believe anything unless you can back it with evidence. I became bolder with time, we shared ideas as I studied. Th society gives everyone liberty and I was very free to come out clean with my realistic traits. A lot of my lecturers didn’t believe in god. I became a full fledged atheist in Europe by the time I finished my program.


Today, I have done several works and I still keep reading to find the truth, so far I haven’t seen anything consistent with the Christian God. I am back in Nigeria and trust me, I don’t have lot of friends for this reason. I have just two friends and they are both agnostic ( I made them agnostic because they are open minded and also brilliant Phd holders in biochemistry).

@op, the bible is not against science. As a Christian, I don't get my science from the bible. The focus of the bible is God's dealings with man. i.e it is spiritual. Science is just a single phase of existence.

Secondly, I just to have hard questions about the bible until I later got explanations. What I thought were contradictions weren't.

Workch:
but the answer is in the speciation and adaptation you said you believe in.

I believe in speciation and adaptation but not in evolution is like saying “thank god I don’t believe in god”. Just so funny

Simply provide the evidence nah.
I may not have come across one, but you can give us one since you are the "learned" one

It's a fallacy of false analogy.
I maintain that the first statement is just equivocation. If it's not, please provide the EVIDENCE. Remember, you are a man of evidence

Harshirama:


@op, the bible is not against science. As a Christian, I don't get my science from the bible. The focus of the bible is God's dealings with man. i.e it is spiritual. Science is just a single phase of existence.

Secondly, I just to have hard questions about the bible until I later got explanations. What I thought were contradictions weren't.

i use also think that the Bible is not against science until I realized that the Bible said plants were created before the sun.

The Bible said someone was born without fertilization, what’s the science there?

Workch:
i use also think that the Bible is not against science until I realized that the Bible said plants were created before the sun.

The Bible said someone was born without fertilization, what’s the science there?

Lol, Moses wrote the Genesis story. He was communicating spiritual truths through natural illustrations. Can we talk privately?

Harshirama:


Lol, Moses wrote the Genesis story. He was communicating spiritual truths through natural illustrations. Can we talk privately?

So what’s the science in conceiving without fertilization?

What’s the science of walking on water?

Workch:
So what’s the science in conceiving without fertilization?

What’s the science of walking on water?

Let's talk on WhatsApp

Workch:
Really?
Have ever entered a lab?

No be only loss of information

What has that question got to do with what I wrote, O "intelligent" one?
Do you need to use a telescope before you talk about what have been written about astronomy?

Lol

Pelecius:

What has that question got to do with what I wrote, O "intelligent" one?
Do you need to use a telescope before you talk about what have been written about astronomy?

Lol

you don’t, but when what you talk about is not consistent with astronomy, one need to ask that.

Workch:
you don’t, but when what you talk about is not consistent with astronomy, one need to ask that.

One does not "necessarily" need to ask that as there are several ways to point out to the person that he is wrong. One is to provide evidence that prove the opposite of what the person is saying. Figures don't lie, they say.
Even Einstein was provided with evidence that was opposite of his steady state model of the universe, which then convinced him.
Simply asking "have you used a telescope?" Won't do anything.

By the way, I am still awaiting the answer from the "informed" one. Since it looks like you've been avoiding the question.
You could "open" someone's eyes with your answer, who knows?

Pelecius:

You are always using this tactic and I gave a simple analogy to show why I can't play by your game.
And you were clearly deflecting what I was talking about and I had to clear that up

Bro, I explained already that "but Jesus adding humanity to himself does not change his divine nature." So what are you asking? I guess the statement is easy enough to comprehend

What tactic? The tactic of sticking to a point while you go on and on about something else?

Adding humanity and taking it off again is not change?