livingchrist:
hiding behind emojis to thrown tantrums and insults, your bitterness means nothing. I guess if you see me now you may decide to pull the trigger.

The highlighted shows you are just following misinformed Churchgoers accusing God's people, you don't know anything about us!
So let's talk calmly now, what exactly do you want to know about us?

PREACHING and TEACHING the word of God is not a easy task so one needs to be extra careful so that you don't end up quarrelling instead of preaching.

The word PREACH connotes to PLEAD with your listeners hence everyone often expects a preacher to be cool calm and collected while delivering God's message.

There are countless religions on this planet today all claiming they originates with the Creator but why so many different sects with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines all in the name of one God?

Well before you can PREACH effectively you need divine wisdom to boost the efficacy in your manner of approach and the way you deliver the message so it's a job that requires real training.

The OP may surely have the zeal for God as in thinking some people are provoking God's wrath but when you're not fully charged with accurate knowledge of God you will just find yourself wandering around in a circus.

Jehovah's Witnesses are just one out of countless religious groups around you, and just like so many others their doctrines differ so before you can call the attention of people from different religions your message must be unique powered by unwavering consistency not some judgmental opinionated ideology that can't withstand scrutiny.

So calling out just one out of tens of thousand different religions and declaring your personal preconceived judgment on them shows the weakness in your message because there are many more religions contradicting themselves.

Just of recent a prominent religious leader died, the whole world felt his exit, people of timber and caliber from all over the world came to Nigeria to pay a condolence visit to his family, politicians everywhere including the president of the federal republic of Nigeria also sent a condolence message but what about his colleagues in the same field? Well the contradictions couldn't make them think straight. Some said they saw angels carrying him up to heaven, some say he has gone to Hellfire, some say he was Lucifer incarnate and a Ghanaian herbalist claimed he killed him in a spiritual battle. Another prominent religious leader said he had a fight with this same man in the spirit realms before his death. All these led honest hearted and sincere people to start seeing that all these religious title chiefs are nothing but empty headed fools!
God's word says that when a human dies the next thing is how to bury the dead and life goes on but who is the judge? According to my own Bible it's God!
So you may have the zeal and willingness to save souls but you need accurate knowledge to help you PREACH and TEACH effectively not just pointing accusing fingers at different sects simply because their beliefs differ from yours!

MaxInDHouse:


So all the over 42,000 different sects claiming Christians with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines are all doing that will, shey?

Keep deceiving yourself!

face the topic and stop derailing

MaxInDHouse:


The highlighted shows you are just following misinformed Churchgoers accusing God's people, you don't know anything about us!
So let's talk calmly now, what exactly do you want to know about us?

misinformed and confused max, face the topic and stop derailing.

writing nonsense as usual.
Since you could not prove ops wrong you result to ad hominem and gaslighting, nonsense!

MaxInDHouse:
PREACHING and TEACHING the word of God is not a easy task so one needs to be extra careful so that you don't end up quarrelling instead of preaching.

The word PREACH connotes to PLEAD with your listeners hence everyone often expects a preacher to be cool calm and collected while delivering God's message.

There are countless religions on this planet today all claiming they originates with the Creator but why so many different sects with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines all in the name of one God?

Well before you can PREACH effectively you need divine wisdom to boost the efficacy in your manner of approach and the way you deliver the message so it's a job that requires real training.

The OP may surely have the zeal for God as in thinking some people are provoking God's wrath but when you're not fully charged with accurate knowledge of God you will just find yourself wandering around in a circus.

Jehovah's Witnesses are just one out of countless religious groups around you, and just like so many others their doctrines differ so before you can call the attention of people from different religions your message must be unique powered by unwavering consistency not some judgmental opinionated ideology that can't withstand scrutiny.

So calling out just one out of tens of thousand different religions and declaring your personal preconceived judgment on them shows the weakness in your message because there are many more religions contradicting themselves.

Just of recent a prominent religious leader died, the whole world felt his exit, people of timber and caliber from all over the world came to Nigeria to pay a condolence visit to his family, politicians everywhere including the president of the federal republic of Nigeria also sent a condolence message but what about his colleagues in the same field? Well the contradictions couldn't make them think straight. Some said they saw angels carrying him up to heaven, some say he has gone to Hellfire, some say he was Lucifer incarnate and a Ghanaian herbalist claimed he killed him in a spiritual battle. Another prominent religious leader said he had a fight with this same man in the spirit realms before his death. All these led honest hearted and sincere people to start seeing that all these religious title chiefs are nothing but empty headed fools!
God's word says that when a human dies the next thing is how to bury the dead and life goes on but who is the judge? According to my own Bible it's God!
So you may have the zeal and willingness to save souls but you need accurate knowledge to help you PREACH and TEACH effectively not just pointing accusing fingers at different sects simply because their beliefs differ from yours!

livingchrist:

writing nonsense as usual.
Since you xant prove ops wrong you result to ad hominem and gaslighting, nonsense!

misinformed and confused max, face the topic and stop derailing.

face the topic and stop derailing

You started in a bad way that's why i'm trying to set matters straight with you after discovering that you don't even know us so keep your anger aside and let's reason like mature believers now.

My question is simple and straightforward:

What exactly do you think about different sects all claiming Christians with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines in Jesus name?

Because that supposed to be your starting point not singling one group out of thousands of different rival religious groups. Everyone can SEE that what you're calling Christianity is a mess full of contradictions leading followers to arguing among themselves, abusing, insulting and even cursing one another due to the conflicting doctrines their leaders infused in their hearts!

Please i'm not trying to provoke you again because i can sense from your statement regarding the trigger that you don't really know us. So let's talk about what led to all the contradictions in what you call Christianity then we can move on to which of these countless rival groups got it right!

Good morning!

Well if you can't chat maturely then let's leave it the way it is!

There is no real Christianity where over 42,000 different rival religious groups are saying contradicting things all over the place arguing, abusing, insulting and cursing one another all in the name of one man (Jesus) who said:

"I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one" John 17:22

So far there's nothing like oneness in Christendom today then it's evident that the true Christians must be a group having the same line of thought {1Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3, Philippians 2:2} not countless religious sects contradicting themselves in the name of one founder (Jesus).

You may continue calling your cohorts to come and say whatever they like against one group but know that if you people aren't having the same line of thought then the accusations you lay against any group due to difference in beliefs shows that you're all hypocrites deceiving yourselves!

Jesus is the Archangel Michael, that's our own findings and it has nothing to do with you people because each of you have different opinions on who Jesus truly is. And to worsen the situation your forms of worship totally differs from one to another which has led you people into forming different religious groups.

Sincerely think about this and remember that nobody is given the authority to judge any group of people unless the judgement you're rendering is not in anyway affecting you yourself. Matthew 7:1-4

You can't say JWs are evil simply because they hold a different view when all of you are also having different views!

Now check this out!.
This is another Trinitarian (not JW) saying Jesus is an angel!

So your singling out JWs on this shows you're not fully informed about what you're saying!

sagenaija:
Who Is Melchizedek? - Jesus Christ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3CTkXnOS1g

From about 31mins:
Melchizedek was not Jesus Christ for the following reasons:
1. He lived when Abraham had contact with the pre-incarnate Christ
Gen. 12:1 - "Now the LORD (Yahweh) said to Abraham,...."
Ex. 3:2 - "The Angel of the LORD appeared to him..."
Ex. 3:6 "He said "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob". Then Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God".
Ex. 3:13 - "Then Moses said to God...."
Ex. 3:14 - "And God said to Moses "I am who I am"; and he said "You shall say this to the Israelites, 'I am has sent me to you' ".
Jesus used the same title:
Jn.8: 56-59 - "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day. He saw it and was delighted. Then the Jews said to him, "You are not even fifty years old, and you claim to have seen Abraham?". Jesus replied, "I assure you and most solemnly say to you, before Abraham was born, I am".
Therefore they picked up stones to throw at him .....

2. Melchizedek was a man
a) Hebrews 7: 4
b) Jesus Christ was not a man prior to his incarnation. Jn. 1:15, Jn. 1:1

3. a) Melchizedek was mortal
b) Jesus Christ was immortal Heb. 1:12

4. a) Melchizedek was a localized and a physical king of a city.
b) The pre-incarnate Christ was never localized.

5. a) Jesus Christ, the Great 'I Am', the Jehovah God, the Angel of the LORD, spoke to Abraham before he had war with the 5 kings. Gen. 12:1 - "Now the LORD had said to Abram ..."
b) Moses confirmed that Jesus had an encounter with Abraham. Ex. 3:2 & 6, Gen. 12:1
c) The Angel of the LORD is Jesus Christ who met Abraham in the Ur of the Chaldeans - Gen. 12:1. Abraham met Jesus in the Ur of the Chaldeans. Few months later he met Melchizedek in Salem. The person Abraham met in Ur could not be the same person who was already residing in Salem.

Therefore on the basis of these facts, we are forced to reject the notion that Melchizedek was Jesus Christ. He was like him, but he was not Jesus Christ.

MaxInDHouse:
Well if you can't chat maturely then let's leave it the way it is!

There is no real Christianity where over 42,000 different rival religious groups are saying contradicting things all over the place arguing, abusing, insulting and cursing one another all in the name of one man (Jesus) who said:

"I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one" John 17:22

So far there's nothing like oneness in Christendom today then it's evident that the true Christians must be a group having the same line of thought {1Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3, Philippians 2:2} not countless religious sects contradicting themselves in the name of one founder (Jesus).

You may continue calling your cohorts to come and say whatever they like against one group but know that if you people aren't having the same line of thought then the accusations you lay against any group due to difference in beliefs shows that you're all hypocrites deceiving yourselves!

Jesus is the Archangel Michael, that's our own findings and it has nothing to do with you people because each of you have different opinions on who Jesus truly is. And to worsen the situation your forms of worship totally differs from one to another which has led you people into forming different religious groups.

Sincerely think about this and remember that nobody is given the authority to judge any group of people unless the judgement you're rendering is not in anyway affecting you yourself. Matthew 7:1-4

You can't say JWs are evil simply because they hold a different view when all of you are also having different views!

who called you here to chat?
Max stop derailing the thread.
Because ops exposed the fraud of your organisation you running amok spitting vitriol.

Yes I admit, I am intolerant of satan's organisation. Jehovah witness are not evil but Jehovah witness organisation is evil, It is the system that is evil, you people in that satanic organisation are in bondage.

MaxInDHouse:






You started in a bad way that's why i'm trying to set matters straight with you after discovering that you don't even know us so keep your anger aside and let's reason like mature believers now.

My question is simple and straightforward:

What exactly do you think about different sects all claiming Christians with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines in Jesus name?

Because that supposed to be your starting point not singling one group out of thousands of different rival religious groups. Everyone can SEE that what you're calling Christianity is a mess full of contradictions leading followers to arguing among themselves, abusing, insulting and even cursing one another due to the conflicting doctrines their leaders infused in their hearts!

Please i'm not trying to provoke you again because i can sense from your statement regarding the trigger that you don't really know us. So let's talk about what led to all the contradictions in what you call Christianity then we can move on to which of these countless rival groups got it right!

Good morning!

this thread is not about groups but about the false teachings of Jehovah witness organisation.

MaxInDHouse:
Now check this out!.
This is another Trinitarian (not JW) saying Jesus is an angel!

So your singling out JWs on this shows you're not fully informed about what you're saying!

A Trinitarian cannot say Jesus is an angel and believing in the trinity does not make one a Christian but however every Christian must believe in the trinity to understand the gospel, infact my next thread is going to be about the relationship between the trinity and the gospel.

Well i just want to help you know that you're judging yourself by calling out Jehovah's Witnesses to accuse them when Trinitarians like you also believe that Jesus is an angel!

Next time you want to teach just go straight to what you want people to discuss and try to be patient, then you will see that it's not only Jehovah's Witnesses believe what you're trying to condemn.

Let me enlighten you.
Once you've tagged JWs to the topic you're indirectly telling your audience

"i want to criticize Jehovah's Witnesses"

By so doing even those who share the same line of thought with JWs will not say anything because they don't want to be vilified along with JWs. But had it been that you presented the case without tagging any group you'll have seen another thing entirely.

I'm through with my mission on your thread at least by now all your followers can see for themselves that it's not only JWs that believe Jesus is an angel, sone trinitarians also have the same opinion!

God bless you and may you have PEACE!

Why are you angry that Jwo are being called out, Jesus called out the pharisees boldly, no wonder they wanted to kill him, you are no different from the pharisee who wanted to silence the truth.
@ bolded where is the accusation? Why are you angry and afraid of your doctrines being scrutinized after all your awake and magazines are filled with attacking the Christian teachings.

Who are you enlightening? It's no longer what the bible teaches but individual or group of individual believe. So much for bible student
Good you leave this thread and allow honest people get the truth.

MaxInDHouse:
Well i just want to help you know that you're judging yourself by calling out Jehovah's Witnesses to accuse them when Trinitarians like you also believe that Jesus is an angel!

Next time you want to teach just go straight to what you want people to discuss and try to be patient, then you will see that it's not only Jehovah's Witnesses believe what you're trying to condemn.

Let me enlighten you.
Once you've tagged JWs to the topic you're indirectly telling your audience

"i want to criticize Jehovah's Witnesses"

By so doing even those who share the same line of thought with JWs will not say anything because they don't want to be vilified along with JWs. But had it been that you presented the case without tagging any group you'll have seen another thing entirely.

I'm through with my mission on your thread at least by now all your followers can see for themselves that it's not only JWs that believe Jesus is an angel, sone trinitarians also have the same opinion!

God bless you and may you have PEACE!

livingchrist:
Why are you angry that Jwo are being called out, Jesus called out the pharisees boldly, no wonder they wanted to kill him, you are no different from the pharisee who wanted to silence the truth.
@ bolded where is the accusation? Why are you angry and afraid of your doctrines being scrutinized after all your awake and magazines are filled with attacking the Christian teachings.

Who are you enlightening? It's no longer what the bible teaches but individual or group of individual believe. So much for bible student
Good you leave this thread and allow honest people get the truth.

Bethlehem Missionary Church is a trinitarian Church that also believe that Jesus is an angel!

So the topic of your thread supposed to be:


Is Jesus An Angel As Claimed By Some Christians?

I can't force the truth into your head but you can see that it's not only Jehovah's Witnesses!

sagenaija:
Who Is Melchizedek? - Jesus Christ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3CTkXnOS1g

From about 31mins:
Melchizedek was not Jesus Christ for the following reasons:
1. He lived when Abraham had contact with the pre-incarnate Christ
Gen. 12:1 - "Now the LORD (Yahweh) said to Abraham,...."
Ex. 3:2 - "The Angel of the LORD appeared to him..."
Ex. 3:6 "He said "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob". Then Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God".
Ex. 3:13 - "Then Moses said to God...."
Ex. 3:14 - "And God said to Moses "I am who I am"; and he said "You shall say this to the Israelites, 'I am has sent me to you' ".
Jesus used the same title:
Jn.8: 56-59 - "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day. He saw it and was delighted. Then the Jews said to him, "You are not even fifty years old, and you claim to have seen Abraham?". Jesus replied, "I assure you and most solemnly say to you, before Abraham was born, I am".
Therefore they picked up stones to throw at him .....

2. Melchizedek was a man
a) Hebrews 7: 4
b) Jesus Christ was not a man prior to his incarnation. Jn. 1:15, Jn. 1:1

3. a) Melchizedek was mortal
b) Jesus Christ was immortal Heb. 1:12

4. a) Melchizedek was a localized and a physical king of a city.
b) The pre-incarnate Christ was never localized.

5. a) Jesus Christ, the Great 'I Am', the Jehovah God, the Angel of the LORD, spoke to Abraham before he had war with the 5 kings. Gen. 12:1 - "Now the LORD had said to Abram ..."
b) Moses confirmed that Jesus had an encounter with Abraham. Ex. 3:2 & 6, Gen. 12:1
c) The Angel of the LORD is Jesus Christ who met Abraham in the Ur of the Chaldeans - Gen. 12:1. Abraham met Jesus in the Ur of the Chaldeans. Few months later he met Melchizedek in Salem. The person Abraham met in Ur could not be the same person who was already residing in Salem.

Therefore on the basis of these facts, we are forced to reject the notion that Melchizedek was Jesus Christ. He was like him, but he was not Jesus Christ.

MaxInDHouse:




Bethlehem Missionary Church is a trinitarian Church that also believe that Jesus is an angel!

So the topic of your thread supposed to be:


Is Jesus An Angel As Claimed By Some Christians?

I can't force the truth into your head but you can see that it's not only Jehovah's Witnesses!

It is just a claim that doesnt have any evidence, because the same angel of the Lord appeared to mary when Jesus had already incarnated


Matthew 1:20
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

From this verse it is clear that Jesus is not the angel of the Lord but it might be possible that God himself might have appeared as an angel in the old testament.

I don't need your story now, the point i just want to emphasize is that it's not only Jehovah's Witnesses that says Jesus is an angel so you're biased with the title of your thread!

livingchrist:
It is just a claim that doesnt have any evidence, because the same angel of the Lord appeared to mary when Jesus had already incarnated

Matthew 1:20
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

From this verse it is clear that Jesus is not the angel of the Lord but it might be possible that God himself might have appeared as an angel in the old testament.

MaxInDHouse:
I don't need your story now, the point i just want to emphasize is that it's not only Jehovah's Witnesses that says Jesus is an angel so you're biased with the title of your thread!

Did I tell you it is only Jehovah witness that teache it? Where is the sense in what you are saying

livingchrist:
Did I tell you it is only Jehovah witnesd that teaches it? Where is the sense in what you are saying

The topic should be:

"Is Jesus An Angel As Claimed By Some Christians?"

Your direct attack on Jehovah's Witnesses shows you're not intelligent rather you just want to slander the group.

However Jesus is Archangel Michael if you want to discuss on that you can check the post on this same thread where i addressed the issue then we can start from there!

MaxInDHouse:
However Jesus is Archangel Michael if you want to discuss on that you can check the post on this same thread where i addressed the issue then we can start from there!

Jesus is not Michael the Archangel, Max.
I know JWs believe that, and maybe you can find 1 or a few more Christians who believe that.
The 7th Day Adventists believe that too, but I know you don't agree with them on all points, or the JWs would keep the one and only True Sabbath there is, the Bible Sabbath, and not the sabbath invented by men, "the Catholic sabbath".

Regardless, we must take all scripture on the topic together to come to the Truth.
And that scripture must come from a reliable Bible, not one whose footnotes try to explain things.

Very clearly, it says in Daniel 10:13 (NKJV): But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.

And if one wants to use another Bible reference for that, sometimes it's good to check the YLT (Young's Literal Translation).
YLT, Daniel 10:13: And the head of the kingdom of Persia is standing over-against me twenty and one days, and lo, Michael, first of the chief heads, hath come in to help me, and I have remained there near the kings of Persia;

Other relevant Verses:

Daniel 10:21 (NKJV): But I will tell you what is noted in the Scripture of Truth. (No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince.

Daniel 12:1 (NKJV): At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book.

Jude 9 (NKJV): Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

Revelation 12:7 (NKJV): And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,

*** All these Verses tell us is that Michael is an Archangel, that is a high-ranking Angel (or prince, as high-ranking Angels, even evil ones, are sometimes referred to as "princes" ), and that Michael is perhaps even the highest ranking Angel of the (good) Angels, one who also stands watch over Believers here on the Earth.

No where is it insinuated that Jesus is Michael or that Michael is Jesus.
(And no, the JWs are not smarter than everyone else on this point, thinking they see the "deeper meaning" about these things more than everyone else.)

Jesus in fact is the one, and only, Son of God, with God from the Beginning (even before Angels).
Unlike Archangels, there are no other beings like Jesus at all, period.

Michael will also be participating in his higher-up position on the last day (Daniel 12:1, possibly also what 1 Thessalonians 4:16 is referring to).

Again, there is no conflict; nor does any of this make Jesus Michael or Michael Jesus.

Another fellow in a different thread said that JWs also think what they do because of the following Verse:

1 Thessalonians 4:16 (NKJV):
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

But we are reading that wrong if we think it is Jesus' voice (or Jesus blowing a trumpet for that matter) on the Last Day.

We can also mis-read Matthew 24:31 too, if we don't discern properly.

Matthew 24:31 (NKJV): And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

On the Last Day, Christ is coming back with the "armies of Heaven" (Revelation 19:14), meaning ALL the Holy Angels (Matthew 25:31), which obviously includes high-ranking Archangels (like Michael, who is defined as an Archangel in Jude 9).

Now, let's simply ask: Who blows the trumpet when going into war - the King or His servants ? Obviously, the servants do.

So the "last trumpet" (also noted in 1 Cor 15:52) on the day when Jesus Returns will be sounded by one of Jesus' servants who are with Him, that is, an Angel.

Therefore, we can also see that the "voice of an archangel" from 1 Thessalonians 4:16 isn't Jesus' own voice, but that of an Archangel who is with Him.

The shouting, the trumpet, and the voice of an Archangel will only be accompanying Jesus as He comes back.

If one reads 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and Matthew 24:31 again with this in mind, they will see it.

In fact, no one should attempt to "lower" Jesus to being an Angel or Archangel.

Besides Hebrews 1, we should ask - Who created the Angels ?

John 1:3 (NKJV): 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

God and Jesus created Angels.

To repeat: God and Jesus created the Angels.

That's why Hebrews 1 reminds us that even the Angels worship Jesus, in addition to God.

Truly, it is actually blasphemous to insist that Jesus Christ is Michael the Archangel.
If one has done this in ignorance, they wouldn't be held accountable for it, but they should
seek the Truth and keep it, and no longer mislead others by preaching things that aren't True.

See pain! The truth really hurt,

MaxInDHouse:


The topic should be:

"Is Jesus An Angel As Claimed By Some Christians?"

Your direct attack on Jehovah's Witnesses shows you're not intelligent rather you just want to slander the group.

However Jesus is Archangel Michael if you want to discuss on that you can check the post on this same thread where i addressed the issue then we can start from there!

livingchrist:
See pain! The truth really hurt,

Now be nice, LivingChrist... let your Christianity lead you, first by loving your enemies (and Max really isn't your enemy anyway, nor is he mine).

We all know Max... he's a (somewhat) rabid JW, but personally I don't think he's insincere.

But his group, the JWs, are much like the 7th Day Adventists... many of the congregation are fine folks, but their leadership is simply too prideful, thinking they must be the ones who lead, instead of allowing God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Word do the leading.

When we are too prideful, as the JW leadership is, how can God work with us ?

He can't, because our pride blinds us.

When we take the lowest place, then God can work with us.

And Max, please know when I bold things as in the post above, I'm not shouting; it's just that I have found no way to underline things for emphasis, so I get stuck bolding things instead.

Wait a minute... I just tried an experiment with "[ u ]" and "[ /u ]" things... it works ! Awesome!

Anyway... Peace to you all ! Be nice to each other.

awitness41:


Now be nice, LivingChrist... let your Christianity lead you, first by loving your enemies (and Max really isn't your enemy anyway, nor is he mine).

We all know Max... he's a (somewhat) rabid JW, but personally I don't think he's insincere.

But his group, the JWs, are much like the 7th Day Adventists... many of the congregation are fine folks, but their leadership is simply too prideful, thinking they must be the ones who lead, instead of allowing God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Word do the leading.

When we are too prideful, as the JW leadership is, how can God work with us ?

He can't, because our pride blinds us.

When we take the lowest place, then God can work with us.

And Max, please know when I bold things as in the post above, I'm not shouting; it's just that I have found no way to underline things for emphasis, so I get stuck bolding things instead.

Wait a minute... I just tried an experiment with "[ u ]" and "[ /u ]" things... it works ! Awesome!

Anyway... Peace to you all ! Be nice to each other.

ok I will be nice with him, I believe it is only God that can open their eyes.

livingchrist:
ok I will be nice with him, I believe it is only God that can open their eyes.

Good man !

If they truly Love God, they will humble themselves, will use His Word and seek the Truth, and then will be given what they ask for.

So in a nutshell you agreed that it's not only Jehovah's Witnesses that beleive Jesus is an angel, right?

Then can you correct this guy that the topic of the thread should be

"Is Jesus An Angel As Claimed By Some Christians?"

awitness41:


Jesus is not Michael the Archangel, Max.
I know JWs believe that, and maybe you can find 1 or a few more Christians who believe that.
The 7th Day Adventists believe that too, but I know you don't agree with them on all points, or the JWs would keep the one and only True Sabbath there is, the Bible Sabbath, and not the sabbath invented by men, "the Catholic sabbath".

Regardless, we must take all scripture on the topic together to come to the Truth.
And that scripture must come from a reliable Bible, not one whose footnotes try to explain things.

Very clearly, it says in Daniel 10:13 (NKJV): But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.

And if one wants to use another Bible reference for that, sometimes it's good to check the YLT (Young's Literal Translation).
YLT, Daniel 10:13: And the head of the kingdom of Persia is standing over-against me twenty and one days, and lo, Michael, first of the chief heads, hath come in to help me, and I have remained there near the kings of Persia;

Other relevant Verses:

Daniel 10:21 (NKJV): But I will tell you what is noted in the Scripture of Truth. (No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince.

Daniel 12:1 (NKJV): At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book.

Jude 9 (NKJV): Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

Revelation 12:7 (NKJV): And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,

*** All these Verses tell us is that Michael is an Archangel, that is a high-ranking Angel (or prince, as high-ranking Angels, even evil ones, are sometimes referred to as "princes" ), and that Michael is perhaps even the highest ranking Angel of the (good) Angels, one who also stands watch over Believers here on the Earth.

No where is it insinuated that Jesus is Michael or that Michael is Jesus.
(And no, the JWs are not smarter than everyone else on this point, thinking they see the "deeper meaning" about these things more than everyone else.)

Jesus in fact is the one, and only, Son of God, with God from the Beginning (even before Angels).
Unlike Archangels, there are no other beings like Jesus at all, period.

Michael will also be participating in his higher-up position on the last day (Daniel 12:1, possibly also what 1 Thessalonians 4:16 is referring to).

Again, there is no conflict; nor does any of this make Jesus Michael or Michael Jesus.

Another fellow in a different thread said that JWs also think what they do because of the following Verse:

1 Thessalonians 4:16 (NKJV):
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

But we are reading that wrong if we think it is Jesus' voice (or Jesus blowing a trumpet for that matter) on the Last Day.

We can also mis-read Matthew 24:31 too, if we don't discern properly.

Matthew 24:31 (NKJV): And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

On the Last Day, Christ is coming back with the "armies of Heaven" (Revelation 19:14), meaning ALL the Holy Angels (Matthew 25:31), which obviously includes high-ranking Archangels (like Michael, who is defined as an Archangel in Jude 9).

Now, let's simply ask: Who blows the trumpet when going into war - the King or His servants ? Obviously, the servants do.

So the "last trumpet" (also noted in 1 Cor 15:52) on the day when Jesus Returns will be sounded by one of Jesus' servants who are with Him, that is, an Angel.

Therefore, we can also see that the "voice of an archangel" from 1 Thessalonians 4:16 isn't Jesus' own voice, but that of an Archangel who is with Him.

The shouting, the trumpet, and the voice of an Archangel will only be accompanying Jesus as He comes back.

If one reads 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and Matthew 24:31 again with this in mind, they will see it.

In fact, no one should attempt to "lower" Jesus to being an Angel or Archangel.

Besides Hebrews 1, we should ask - Who created the Angels ?

John 1:3 (NKJV): 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

God and Jesus created Angels.

To repeat: God and Jesus created the Angels.

That's why Hebrews 1 reminds us that even the Angels worship Jesus, in addition to God.

Truly, it is actually blasphemous to insist that Jesus Christ is Michael the Archangel.
If one has done this in ignorance, they wouldn't be held accountable for it, but they should
seek the Truth and keep it, and no longer mislead others by preaching things that aren't True.

livingchrist:

See pain! The truth really hurt,

Walahi Talahi you're a clown!

Instead of listening to reasoning you asked me to focus on the topic, now i told you what is wrong with your topic you said it pains.

No wahala at least i've exposed your ignorance that it's not only JWs that beleive Jesus is an angel!

awitness41:

Now be nice, LivingChrist... let your Christianity lead you, first by loving your enemies (and Max really isn't your enemy anyway, nor is he mine).
We all know Max... he's a (somewhat) rabid JW, but personally I don't think he's insincere.
But his group, the JWs, are much like the 7th Day Adventists... many of the congregation are fine folks, but their leadership is simply too prideful, thinking they must be the ones who lead, instead of allowing God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Word do the leading.
When we are too prideful, as the JW leadership is, how can God work with us ?He can't, because our pride blinds us.
When we take the lowest place, then God can work with us.And Max, please know when I bold things as in the post above, I'm not shouting; it's just that I have found no way to underline things for emphasis, so I get stuck bolding things instead.Wait a minute... I just tried an experiment with "[ u ]" and "[ /u ]" things... it works ! Awesome! Anyway... Peace to you all ! Be nice to each other.

Thanks for the advice but can you please tell him the truth and let Satan be ashamed?

This is what is killing the human society today, instead of saying the truth you will be hiding behind one finger.

Is he right to have labeled JWs as if it's only the group that says Jesus' is an angel?

If not then tell him he's wrong!

Jesus is the Archangel Michael, that's what i beleive and we can later discuss on that if you want to but first of all let him know he guffed with the topic if you're not biased yourself!

awitness41:

Good man !
If they truly Love God, they will humble themselves, will use His Word and seek the Truth, and then will be given what they ask for.

Let's see the love first, at least Jesus said:

"I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.” John 13:34-35

I have not seen any other group of humble religionists who truly have LOVE among themselves apart from Jehovah's Witnesses!

MaxInDHouse:
So in a nutshell you agreed that it's not only Jehovah's Witnesses that beleive Jesus is an angel, right?
Then can you correct this guy that the topic of the thread should be

"Is Jesus An Angel As Claimed By Some Christians?"

My friend Max, I don't agree with the Adventists on this topic any more than I agree with the JWs... for both are wrong.

If two groups believe a wrong thing, it doesn't make it a right thing.

One group of folks believing the same wrong thing as another group of folks doesn't produce Righteous fruit.

LivingChrist called this topic: "Is Jesus An Angel As Claimed By Jehovah Witnesses?"

Perhaps he doesn't know any Adventists, I don't know.

But surely he knows the JWs, and what the JWs preach on this topic, because of yourself and some others on Nairaland.

So whether he asked the question in it's original form, or by asking "Is Jesus An Angel As Claimed By Some Christians?", the answer would still be the same: no.

And the proof of that question is provided above... please consider it in front of God, without a stitch of pride, and you will come to the Truth.

And don't live to just defend JWs out here, Max, or any group of people anywhere else, either, for all have sinned.
The JWs are wrong in some things and right on some others, just like almost all churches.

And don't mind those whom you believe are out here just to attack JWs, Max.
Forgive them when the offend, and you will be forgiven for all your past offenses.

Simply be a child of God, seeking the Love and Truth in HIs Word first.
Who knows, maybe you'll end up correcting the JWs on this particular doctrine.
Stranger things have happened...

Either way, go in Peace, friend.

Guy i never asked you to agree with the opinion rather i'm saying since you agreed that there are many churches out there that beleive Jesus is an angel, then tell the OP he was wrong, period!

awitness41:


My friend Max, I don't agree with the Adventists on this topic any more than I agree with the JWs... for both are wrong.

If two groups believe a wrong thing, it doesn't make it a right thing.

One group of folks believing the same wrong thing as another group of folks doesn't produce Righteous fruit.

LivingChrist called this topic: "Is Jesus An Angel As Claimed By Jehovah Witnesses?"

Perhaps he doesn't know any Adventists, I don't know.

But surely he knows the JWs, and what the JWs preach on this topic, because of yourself and some others on Nairaland.

So whether he asked the question in it's original form, or by asking "Is Jesus An Angel As Claimed By Some Christians?", the answer would still be the same: no.

And the proof of that question is provided above... please consider it in front of God, without a stitch of pride, and you will come to the Truth.

And don't live to just defend JWs out here, Max, or any group of people anywhere else, either, for all have sinned.
The JWs are wrong in some things and right on some others, just like almost all churches.

And don't mind those whom you believe are out here just to attack JWs, Max.
Forgive them when the offend, and you will be forgiven for all your past offenses.

Simply be a child of God, seeking the Love and Truth in HIs Word first.
Who knows, maybe you'll end up correcting the JWs on this particular doctrine.
Stranger things have happened...

Either way, go in Peace, friend.

MaxInDHouse:
Guy i never asked you to agree with the opinion rather i'm saying since you agreed that there are many churches out there that beleive Jesus is an angel, then tell the OP he was wrong, period!

I don't see "two churches" as many, Max.
And I don't see any Adventists out here in Nairaland that I know of, although I have seen some people rightfully defending the Bible Sabbath.
That why I speculated that LivingChrist might not know any Adventists, but only JWs.

But... if you want me to tell someone that they are "wrong, period!", please do this:
Please consider the Truth of what I posted above regarding Jesus and Michael, and search your own heart and unbiased Scripture regarding it.

If you do that, then I will tell LivingChrist that I know of two churches, SDA and JW, each of which have many literal churches, (although they represent only small subset of Christian churches overall) that believe the (false) doctine that Michael is Jesus, or Jesus is Michael.

Fair enough ?

Try to be honest at least for once Mr Man!

SDA, JWs, Bethlehem Missionary Church, Celestial Church of Christ and many more believe that Jesus is an angel so let's settle that first because that's what brought us together, it's after that's settled we can now talk about the EVIDENCES to back what each person beleive about Jesus prehuman existence!

As for Jesus (archangel Michael) i've got more than enough EVIDENCES both in letters (Bible) and living evidence (spirit) that nobody can deny!

But i will not derail the topic unless you agree first that the OP guffed maybe deliberately or ignorantly. Your continuous arguments without addressing that is a sign of insincerity so i'll not switch over to the case of Jesus who is the Archangel Michael!

awitness41:


I don't see "two churches" as many, Max.
And I don't see any Adventists out here in Nairaland that I know of, although I have seen some people rightfully defending the Bible Sabbath.
That why I speculated that LivingChrist might not know any Adventists, but only JWs.

But... if you want me to tell someone that they are "wrong, period!", please do this:
Please consider the Truth of what I posted above regarding Jesus and Michael, and search your own heart and unbiased Scripture regarding it.

If you do that, then I will tell LivingChrist that I know of two churches, SDA and JW, each of which have many literal churches, (although they represent only small subset of Christian churches overall) that believe the (false) doctine that Michael is Jesus, or Jesus is Michael.

Fair enough ?

livingchrist:
Jesus said anyone that does his father's will are his brethren,

Matthew 12:50
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

He didnt preach group confused max

Whose will is Jesus doing?
This confused Bros,
[b]John 9:4 "WE" must do what ?
Is "WE" an individual?
John 9:4, who are the "WE"?
John 17:6-7, Jesus says ,"THEY have obeyed your word"
Bros, @ John 17:6-7, is "THEY" an individual ?
Bros, is "THEY" @ John17:6-7 , "the PEOPLE" @Acts 15:14,17 ?