tctrills:

I told you, different verses in the bible use the Word God in different ways.
It key is to understand who it is talking about.
You cannot be bringing up verses and ignoring other verses.
Look into all the verses.

Oga , look into all the verses in Greek interlinear Bible @John 1:1,John 14:1,John4:24, Jesus calls ONLY JEHOVAH God ho Theos ,(Greek 3588 2316) "the God."

@ John 1:1,Is Jesus ho Theos "the God"?
NEVER !!!

tctrills:

Both Jesus Christ and David refer to Man as God. They were not wrong.

tctrills:


John 17 3 isn't wrong also neither is 1 Corinthians 8:5. In these verses, Jesus Christ was pointing us to worship the Father.

tctrills:

Paul taught that Jesus Christ became equal to the Father.

tctrills:

Jesus also taught be ye perfect like your Father in Heaven showing that even man can reach the level.

tctrills:

I Am is the name of Jehovah.
Exodus 3.14
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

tctrills:

Actually, I just quoted word for word

tctrills:
sir I don't get your point here. Jesus to moses to tell the children of Israel that I Am sent him. In John, he again told Israel that he is I Am. So simple.
Please explain the point you are trying to make

John 20:17, Your I AM ascending to meet another "I AM".
Do you get it?

tctrills:
Jesus is Jehovah
Isaiah declared
Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Jesus was and is that only Saviour.

13 Bible Verses about
Jesus Christ, Savior

Luke 2:11
for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Paul declared Jesus as our great God and Savior

cornelboy:
God is the Savior and He chooses the means through which he saves.

You are the one that have different versions of God.





The Father is the one God for us!

Janosky:

John 8:38.
Jesus your "I AM" is in the presence of his Father in heaven.

Oga, your claim about John 8:58 , Jesus Christ says it's not true.
Exodus 3:14-15 and Acts 3:13 is the scriptural evidence.
Exodus 3:14, God told Moses:
"Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh I will be what/who I will be"

"I AM" claim is man made deception.

tctrills:

I think I understand what you are trying to say, You believe that the father is the only savior. That Jesus Christ is not really the Savior but just someone used by the Savior so it's wrong to call him our Savior? Is this your point?

Janosky:

Oga , look into all the verses in Greek interlinear Bible @John 1:1,John 14:1,John4:24, Jesus calls ONLY JEHOVAH God ho Theos ,(Greek 3588 2316) "the God."

@ John 1:1,Is Jesus ho Theos "the God"?
NEVER !!! .

Hosea 12:3-4, angel is God.
Oga, whether you believe Jesus is, your Bible says the angel is.

Matthew 4:10 & Mark 12:30 Jesus Christ says you MUST Worship only God his Father.
Only Polytheists worship 3 deities,not Christians.

1 Corinthians 11:3 Amplified Bible
"But I want you to understand that Christ is the head (authority over) of every man, and man is the head of woman, and God is the head of Christ"

God is the Head (authority over) Christ.
Oga, Paul says your claim is NOT true.



Man is not perfect.
Man's perfection na copy copy, filthy rags in the sight of God.

Janosky:

Oga, your claim is NOT true.
Did Jesus speak to Moses at Exodus 3:14?

John 20:17, Your I AM ascending to meet another "I AM".
Do you get it?

Janosky:

John 20:17, Oga did Jesus agree with your claim?
John 20:17,is Jesus your God?
Did Jesus ascend to himself?

You are telling this forum that John 3:16 is a ruse.

Janosky:

John 20:17, Oga did Jesus agree with your claim?
John 20:17,is Jesus your God?
Did Jesus ascend to himself?

You are telling this forum that John 3:16 is a ruse.

tctrills:

Sir, I don't understand your point. Are you a Hebrew speaker? Are you saying that you are smarter than the Hebrew scholars that translated the bible?

You have never translated anything so your cant be the expert in determining which translation is correct and which is wrong. Let's leave that for the experts ok.
It would be very foolish for both of us to argue over the works of different scholars unless we are equally qualified. I get you are trying to defend the work of some scholars but you are not qualified neither am I. Let's leave that debate to those that know what they are talking about.

Meanwhile, this is from another scholar of Hebrew.

I am that I am is a common English translation of the Hebrew phrase אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה‎, ’ehye ’ăšer ’ehye ([ʔehˈje ʔaˈʃer ʔehˈje])– also "I am who I am," "I will become what I choose to become", "I am what I am," "I will be what I will be," "I create what(ever) I create," or "I am the Existing One."[1] The traditional English translation within Judaism favors "I will be what I will be" because there is no present tense of the verb "to be" in the Hebrew language.

tctrills:


Ehyeh asher ehyeh (Hebrew: אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה) is the first of three responses given to Moses when he asks for God's name in the Book of Exodus.[2] ’Ehyeh is the first person form of hayah, "to be," and owing to the peculiarities of Hebrew grammar means "I am," "I was," and "I will be."[3] The meaning of the longer phrase ’ehyeh ’ăšer ’ehyeh is debated, and might be seen as a promise ("I will be with you" or as statement of incomparability ("I am without equal".[4]

The word ehyeh is the first-person singular imperfect form of hayah, "to be". Biblical Hebrew does not distinguish between grammatical tenses. It has instead an aspectual system in which the imperfect denotes any actions that are not yet completed,[5][6][7] Accordingly, Ehyeh asher ehyeh can be rendered in English not only as "I am that I am" but also as "I will be what I will be" or "I will be who I will be", or "I shall prove to be whatsoever I shall prove to be" or even "I will be because I will be". Other renderings include: Leeser, "I Will Be that I Will Be"; Rotherham, "I Will Become whatsoever I please", Greek, Ego eimi ho on (ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν), "I am The Being" in the Septuagint,[8] and Philo,[9][10] and the Book of Revelation[11] or, "I am The Existing One"; Lat., ego sum qui sum, "I am Who I am."

According to the Hebrew Bible, in the encounter of the burning bush (Exodus 3:14) Moses asks what he is to say to the Israelites when they ask what the gods ('Elohiym) have sent him to them, and Yahweh replies, "I am who I am," adding, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I am has sent me to you.'"[4] It is somewhat remarkable that despite this exchange, the Israelites never ask Moses for the name of God.[13] Then there are a number of probably unanswerable questions, including who it is that does not know God's name, Moses or the Israelites (most commentators take it that it is Moses who does not know, meaning that the Israelites will ask him the name in order to prove his credentials), and just what the statement means.[13]

The last can be approached in three ways:

"I am who I am" – an evasion of Moses's question;[14]
"I am who am" or "I am he who is" – a statement of the nature of Israel's Gods ['Elohiym];
"'I Am' is who I am," or "I am because I am" – this version has not played a major part in scholarly discussion of the phrase, but the first variant has been incorporated into the New English Bible

Nobody555:
Important note!
Pls ensure to make your responses short and precise. Referencing the bible is very essential. No insult on personal level or religion is allowed pls. Let's try to portray Christ in our character and how we interact with others. Don't try to force your opinions on others, it's an open discussion. When proving your point, asking questions is better than making assertions.

Since when i was in my early teens, i have been finding it hard to comprehend and believe the Trinity. I'm often told that I need to believe God as mystery. So i wonder, how can I know or walk with a mystery God?
I also wonder if the the disciples and the early church understand God as three persons in one God or one God in three persons or just one singular God, a person?

John 14:17,26
[17]He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth.......
[26]But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you.

The question here is if the holy spirit taught the apostles and first believers everything and led them into all truth, why are we still left to believe God as mystery?
Another question is those that established the Trinity doctrine years later after the early christians, were they led by the holy spirit?

"Trinitarians believe that the one God eternally exists in three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; and that these three are one God, co-equal and co-eternal, having precisely the same nature and attributes, and worthy of precisely the same worship, confidence, and obedience".

Now this thread will focus mainly on the "COEQUALNESS" of the Trinity members. Other qualities will be discussed in my subsequent thread.
Is the Father greater than the son?
Are YHWH and Jesus really coequal?

John 14:28
[28]Remember what I told you: I am going away, but I will come back to you again. If you really loved me, you would be happy that I am going to the Father, who is greater than I am.
1 Corinthians 11:3
[3]But there is one thing I want you to know: The head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Nobody555:
Important note!
Pls ensure to make your responses short and precise. Referencing the bible is very essential. No insult on personal level or religion is allowed pls. Let's try to portray Christ in our character and how we interact with others. Don't try to force your opinions on others, it's an open discussion. When proving your point, asking questions is better than making assertions.

Since when i was in my early teens, i have been finding it hard to comprehend and believe the Trinity. I'm often told that I need to believe God as mystery. So i wonder, how can I know or walk with a mystery God?
I also wonder if the the disciples and the early church understand God as three persons in one God or one God in three persons or just one singular God, a person?

John 14:17,26
[17]He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth.......
[26]But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you.

The question here is if the holy spirit taught the apostles and first believers everything and led them into all truth, why are we still left to believe God as mystery?
Another question is those that established the Trinity doctrine years later after the early christians, were they led by the holy spirit?

"Trinitarians believe that the one God eternally exists in three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; and that these three are one God, co-equal and co-eternal, having precisely the same nature and attributes, and worthy of precisely the same worship, confidence, and obedience".

Now this thread will focus mainly on the "COEQUALNESS" of the Trinity members. Other qualities will be discussed in my subsequent thread.
Is the Father greater than the son?
Are YHWH and Jesus really coequal?

John 14:28
[28]Remember what I told you: I am going away, but I will come back to you again. If you really loved me, you would be happy that I am going to the Father, who is greater than I am.
1 Corinthians 11:3
[3]But there is one thing I want you to know: The head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Janosky:

Oga, your post here vindicated the point of Chabad.org screenshot.

ehye ’ăšer ’ehye ([ʔehˈje ʔaˈʃer ʔehˈje])– "I will become what I choose to become"


Oga, thanks for this post.
Tctrills post:
"The traditional English translation within Judaism favors "I will be what I will be" because there is no present tense of the verb "to be" in the Hebrew language."

Hebrew is the original language of the Bible.

Hebrew NEVER claimed I AM that I AM meaning Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh.

Hebrew Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh means I will be what I will be......"

It is the Hebrew that would decide what the English language translation would be.
'I AM' falls far short.
Na you provide the evidence.
One question for you:
John 20:17 , Acts 3:13 & Exodus 3:14, Oga, your " I AM" ascended to whom?

tctrills:

I think I understand what you are trying to say,

I don't think you really do

You believe that the father is the only savior.

Yes according to Isaiah 43:11

That Jesus Christ is not really the Savior but just someone used by the Savior so it's wrong to call him our Savior? Is this your point?

I know your aim was to prove that the the Father, YHWH is Jesus. It didn't go like that, you get?

Just the same way Paul acknowledged that there are many Gods and Lords in heaven and earth but the Father is the one God for christians, is the same way there are many saviors but God the Father is the SAVIOR.

He saves through others.

Obadiah 1:21
21 And saviours shall come up on bmount Zion to judge the mount of Esau;
Na you quote this na stop fooling around.
Pls is your name Okpoko?

fattprince:


Well I can't quote bible but what I believe in Trinity is that it is a mystery as you have put it but just know that God is like you that's why they said we are created in His image. You consist of Body, soul which can also be called mind and spirit. Your body, is the container your soul is the actions, words you do while your spirit is operating on another dimension. So God the father is like the soul, the words and actions, Jesus Christ is the body, soul becoming a physical entity and Holy spirit is the spirit. Ruling the spiritual realm which is another dimension.

A saint was thinking about how to understand the Trinity one day and as he was meditating on a beach he came across a boy that was filling a small hole he has dug by the beach from the beach water. The saint asked him what he was doing, the boy replied by telling him he wants to empty the ocean into the hole. The saint told him it was impossible, that he can't empty the ocean talk more of it containing the hole. The boy replied him that same way he can't understand the trinity with his small physical mind.

diridiri:


There is no mention of the Trinity in the Gospels, and anyone who quotes anything apart from the Gospels is an idiot, since most of those things are letters written by apostles and not holy scriptures. You can even see the disagreements that Paul had with Peter or James the brother of Jesus in the different letters they wrote (like whether faith alone will take you to heaven or not, or the importance of circumcision, or the relationship between the Gospels and the Gentiles, and so on and so forth).

cornelboy:
Which ones are the holy scriptures

Who wrote the gospels?

diridiri:

The Gospels are eyewitness accounts on the life and death of Jesus Christ.
They are the holy scriptures. They are the most reliable.
Letters written by Paul don't matter. He was just some random preacher who heavily emphasized the spread of the Gospel to the gentiles.

cornelboy:
Lol it could all be fake

MaxInDHouse:


Who appointed Paul as an Apostle for the nations?
Answer:

But the Lord (Jesus) said to him: “Go! because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel. Act 2:15

For your information whatever the apostles penned down has nothing to do with you a gentile because Jesus never sent them to you:

These 12 Jesus sent out, giving them these instructions: “Do not go off into the road of the nations, and do not enter any Sa·marʹi·tan city; but instead, go continually to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 10:6-7

That's why the Apostles stayed in Jerusalem throughout until the destruction of Jerusalem, it was Paul that Jesus chose specifically to connect all gentiles to himself.
So in the absence of Paul's letters Jesus doesn't know you!

diridiri:

Acts of the Apostles is not a gospel.
Acts of the Apostles also plays favoritism with Paul. It keeps avoiding talking about James, Jesus' brother and leader of the Church.
It's propaganda for Paul. I won't even be surprised if Paul hired someone write it.
Again, only Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Everything else is extra.

diridiri:

Jesus didn't tell Paul anything abeg.
After Paul finish stoning people he went to one far far place then came back and started talking "Jesus told me so so so", as if is not only him and 2 other people that were there.
He was lying abeg.

diridiri:

The Gospels are eyewitness accounts on the life and death of Jesus Christ.
They are the holy scriptures. They are the most reliable.
Letters written by Paul don't matter. He was just some random preacher who heavily emphasized the spread of the Gospel to the gentiles.

cornelboy:

Hmm this is interesting
What about the the book of Acts of the Apostles, who wrote it and are they also eye witness accounts?

I'm learning new things

tctrills:

You did not read the post. If you did, you would notice that it offered both arguments. Please read the entire post.

diridiri:


Acts of the Apostles is not a gospel.
Acts of the Apostles also plays favoritism with Paul. It keeps avoiding talking about James, Jesus' brother and leader of the Church.
It's propaganda for Paul. I won't even be surprised if Paul hired someone write it.

Again, only Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Everything else is extra.

Oh, so because Paul said something that means Jesus agrees.
Jesus was saviour of the world even though Paul didn't say anything.

Jesus didn't tell Paul anything abeg.
After Paul finish stoning people he went to one far far place then came back and started talking "Jesus told me so so so", as if is not only him and 2 other people that were there.
He was lying abeg.

tctrills:


This is another post from another Hebrew scholar.
A shortened form of God's response to Moses' request for the name of the God of the patriarchs (Exodus 3:13-14 ). The fuller form of the name may be rendered “I am who I am,” “I will be who I will be,” or even “I cause to be what is.” See YHWH. God's response is not a “name” that makes God an object of definition or limitation. .
.

tctrills:

You did not read the post. If you did, you would notice that it offered both arguments. Please read the entire post.
This is another post from another Hebrew scholar.
A shortened form of God's response to Moses' request for the name of the God of the patriarchs (Exodus 3:13-14 ). The fuller form of the name may be rendered “I am who I am,” “I will be who I will be,” or even “I cause to be what is.” See YHWH . God's response is not a “name” that makes God an object of definition or limitation. Rather, it is an affirmation that God is always subject, always free to be and act as God wills. The earliest Greek rendering “I am the one who is” or “I am Being” has been especially significant in the development of theology.
Jesus' “I am” response in several New Testament passages suggests more than the simple identifying “I am he.” The “I am” of Mark 6:50 means “I am Jesus and not a ghost,” but suggests the divine “I am” who alone “tramples down the waves of the sea” ( Job 9:8; Mark 6:48-49 ) and made the waves hush (Psalm 107:28-29; compare Mark 4:39 ). John 8:24 makes recognition that Jesus is the “I am” a matter of eternal life and death: “You will die in your sins unless you believe that I am.” The Jews misunderstood, thinking it was a matter of identity (“Who are you?” John 8:25 ). Recognition that Jesus is the “I am” who is one in word and action with His Father is possible only when Jesus has been lifted up on the cross/raised from the dead (John 8:28 ). That the Jews rightly understood Jesus' claim “before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58 ) as a divine claim is evident from their picking up stones to throw at Him. The “I am” of John 18:5 again suggests more than “I am the man you are looking for.” Rather, Jesus is the “I am” whose awesome presence forced the guard back and into a posture of reverence. Here Jesus was not the object of betrayal but the subject who won the release of His disciples ( John 18:8 ). Though differing in form from the “I am” sayings, the references to the one “who is and who was and who is to come” (Revelation 1:4 ,Revelation 1:4,1:8; Revelation 4:8; compare Revelation 11:17; Revelation 16:5 ) are similar in thought. In a context of intense hardship that called into question God's sovereignty, the writer of Revelation reaffirmed Israel's faith in the “I am” who is the subject of history and not its victim.

#2
The adherents of Judaism (the Hebrews/Jews, native speakers of Hebrew language) say their own Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh is "I will be what I will be"/ I will become what I will become"

#3
According to your post, is there "present tense "I AM" in the Hebrew language"?

"I AM" doesn't exist in Hebrew, why do you attach that claim to Jesus when you know I AM has no connection to the God and Father of Jesus?

NOTHING concern Jesus with your spurious claim of 'I AM'.

tctrills:

None of these scriptures here say Jesus isn't Jehovah or God.

Oga, be honest to yourself

My four questions to you:
According to your Bible @ John 20:17, is Jesus Christ "your God and his "my God"?
Jesus Christ is ascending to meet which God?

In other words, who did Jesus call "my God"?
Who did Jesus Christ call "your God"?