When was YAHUSHUAH created?
Proverbs 8:22-26 YaHuWaH possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
I was formed from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
YAHUSHUAH claims that He was Created by Yahuwah ;
Psalms 40:7-8 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
I delight to do thy will, O MY ELOHIM : yea, thy law is within my heart.
Psalms 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore ELOHIM, THY ELOHIM, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
YAHUSHUAH declared to Satan that He cannot tempt YAHUWAH his Elohim (his creator) ;
Matthew 4:6-7 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of Elohim, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Yahushuah said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt YaHuWaH THY ELOHIM.
Matthew 4:10 Then saith Yahushuah unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship YaHuWaH THY ELOHIM, and him only shalt thou serve.
Did Yahushuah claim that He is an Elohim?
John 10:33-36 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself Elohim.
Yeshua answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are elohim?
If he called them elohim, unto whom the word of Yahuwah came, and the scripture cannot be broken; (Yahushua explained that a man upon whom dwells the power of Yahuwah the Father can be called an Elohim) e.g
Exodus 7:1
And YaHuWaH said unto Moses, See, I have made thee elohim to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
YAHUSHUAH declares his Father as his Elohim (his creator)
Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34
And about the ninth hour Yahushuah cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My Elohim (my Creator) , my Elohim (my Creator) , why hast thou forsaken me?
John 20:17
Yahushuah saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my Elohim (my Creator) , and your Elohim (my Creator).
The Apostles Believes that there's ONE ELOHIM who created both Yahushuah and all Creatures ;
1 Corinthians 8:5-6 For though there be that are called Elohim, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be Elohim many, and masters many,)
But to us there is but one Elohim, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Master Yahushuah the Messiah, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Master, one faith, one baptism,
One Elohim and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is ONE ELOHIM, and one mediator between Elohim and men, the MAN Yahushuah the Messiah;
James 2:19
Thou believest that there is ONE ELOHIM thou doest well:
YAHUSHUAH cannot be the firstborn of every creatures, if he is not part of the creatures being born.
Colossians 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible Elohim, the firstborn of every creature:
YAHUSHUAH cannot be the beginning of the creature of Elohim if He's not the First to be Created.
Revelation 3:14
And unto the angel of the assembly of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the amen, the faithful and true witness, the BEGINNING OF THE CREATION of YAHUWAH.
Why is it that it seems grievous and blasphemous to claim that Yahushuah was created?
Because when an abomination is accepted for too long it becomes a tradition.

Nice exposition of the Scriptures. However, you probably forgot to add: "[Christ Jesus] Who, being in the form of God , thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of man ".- Philippians2:6-7

Exoticfarmer:
Nice exposition of the Scriptures. However, you probably forgot to add: "[Christ Jesus] Who, being in the form of God , thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of man ".- Philippians2:6-7

Correct but Who's is this Jesus Christ that thought it robbery to be equal with God and that took upon himself the Glory that belongs to the Father alone? Who's this Jesus of the trinitism?

cosiocan:

Who's is this Jesus Christ that thought it robbery to be equal with God and that took upon himself the Glory that belongs to the Father alone? Who's this Jesus of the trinitism?

This is quite Incoherent .

Exoticfarmer:
Nice exposition of the Scriptures. However, you probably forgot to add: "[Christ Jesus] Who, being in the form of God , thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of man ".- Philippians2:6-7

And being in the form or the nature of God, does not contradict the fact that He was created, just as Eve is in the nature of Adam because Yahuwah created Eve from Adam. Yahushuah has the nature of Yahuwah Elohim because He was created from Yahuwah. And other creatures was created by Yahuwah from the word that proceeded from Yahushuah's mouth.

cosiocan:

And being in the form or the nature of God, does not contradict the fact that He was created, just as Eve is in the nature of Adam because Yahuwah created Eve from Adam. Yahushuah has the nature of Yahuwah Elohim because He was created from Yahuwah. And other creatures was created by Yahuwah from the word that proceeded from Yahushuah's mouth.

Really?, but I thought it read: " Who, being in the form of GOD ... took upon himself the form of a servant and and and and and AND was made in the likeness of men (i.e as the last Adam) "
In conclusion, the Living Word had existence before He was made flesh.

I would prefer if you use a modern Bible Translation
Like BSB, CSB or William Barclay study Bible

Christians are always silly while trying to prove the divinity of Jesus.

The firstborn simply means the first creature {Colossians 1:15-16} so he is not the Almighty God otherwise there couldn't have been anyone else Jesus will refer to saying
"my father who is your father and my God who is your God" John 20:17

There are many angelic sons of God in heaven {Job 38:7} and according to the Bible one of them is called the "Archangel" {Jude 9 compare to Revelations 12:7} of course that is the only angel that stood out as different from all the others. Definitely that's the one referred to as the firstborn of all angelic sons of God!
So when God's word says this angel stood for the salvation of obedient mankind {Daniel 12:1} it's clear that he did so due to what he said @ Proverbs 8:31:

"I rejoiced over his habitable earth, And I was especially fond of the sons of men"

YES! He was in the beginning with GOD Almighty {Proverbs 8:22-30; John 1:1} and he participated in making all other things {Colossians 1:15} as God's only begotten Son everything was created for his pleasure {Colossians 1:16} but of all the things created Jesus (Archangel Michael) love humans most! Proverbs 8:31

But with the erroneous and demonic teaching called TRINITY which comes from pagan origin misinformed Churchgoers can't agree with this fact!

Let's learn together: For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him (JESUS Christ), and for Him -Col.1:16 "Thou art worthy O Lord. to recieve glory and honour and power: for thou (JEHOVAH) hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. "-Rev.4:11 | What's your take on this?

Exoticfarmer:
Let's learn together: For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him (JESUS Christ), and for Him -Col.1:16 "Thou art worthy O Lord. to recieve glory and honour and power: for thou (JEHOVAH) hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. "-Rev.4:11 | What's your take on this?

You are a human and from what we have seen in the past it's obvious that mankind never had telephones, televisions, computers, radios, automobiles, aircrafts, electricity and many more someone 500 years ago.
So who is responsible for all these things man or God?
Let's start from there!

For your information God created man in his own image meaning mankind can think of how to make things better but all the glory honour and power belongs to the one who created us in His image!
So if Jesus is called the image of the invisible God it simply means God has imparted in His only begotten Son the ability to created all other things yet all glory, laud and honour goes to the one who created this firstborn creature and empowered him to make other things.
Note that humans do die and we've somehow been disconnected from the father since Adam's rebellion {Romans 3:23} that's why our level of developing other things was slow otherwise all these things wouldn't have taken us this long if Adam is still alive today as a youth and for sure all these development will be to his credit as God's only begotten Son on planet earth through whom all of us were born (created) Luke 3:38

MaxInDHouse:



You are a human and from what we have seen in the past it's obvious that mankind never had telephones, televisions, computers, radios, automobiles, aircrafts, electricity and many more someone 500 years ago.
So who is responsible for all these things man or God?
Let's start from there!

For your information God created man in his own image meaning mankind can think of how to make things better but all the glory honour and power belongs to the one who created us in His image!
So if Jesus is called the image of the invisible God it simply means God has imparted in His only begotten Son the ability to created all other things yet all glory, laud and honour goes to the one who created this firstborn creature and empowered him to make other things_

It's quite absurd that this is coming from someone as knowlegeable as you. God created matter from a void, light out of darkness: that's a feat no creature can undertake.I'll drop salient scriptures in a jiffy

"I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it : and God doeth it that men should fear before Him"-Eccl.3:14
"For God (JEHOVAH), Who commanded the light to shine out of darkness_"- Taken from 2Corinth.4:6
"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear " -Heb.11:3
" For unto which of the angel said he at any time, Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee__" [the answer is simple "none". check other translation and original greek text] - Taken from Heb.1:5

Exoticfarmer:
It's quite absurd that this is coming from someone as knowlegeable as you. God created matter from a void, light out of darkness: that's a feat no creature can undertake.I'll drop salient scriptures in a jiffy

The highlighted has said it all!

Exoticfarmer:
"I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it : and God doeth it that men should fear before Him"-Eccl.3:14
"For God (JEHOVAH), Who commanded the light to shine out of darkness_"- from 2Corinth.4:6
"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear " -Heb.11:3

So what correlation has these got to do with the case on ground?

Perhaps i should remind you what you typed earlier:

Exoticfarmer:
Let's learn together: For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him (JESUS Christ), and for Him -Col.1:16 "Thou art worthy O Lord. to recieve glory and honour and power: for thou (JEHOVAH) hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. "-Rev.4:11 | What's your take on this?

So what correlation does the above has to do with your latest quotes?

@maxindhouse It seems you have not seen it already. i will summarize it for you~ Read carefuly this time . those were in reply to your post that God made man & through man he made cars, telephone etc(that's just workmanship or craft).
» Now, when we talk about creation, we speak of creating matter and existence out of nothing.(Gen.1:1) No creature can do that. »Secondly, God said he never told any angel to sit at His right hand (Heb.1:13).
» Thirdly, there's nothing Like God created Jesus and Jesus creating man; They coexisted in the begining (John1:1) and so did the Eternal Spirit (Heb.9:14) . This will help you to see the correlation. God bless you.

Exoticfarmer:

It seems you have not seen it already. i will summarize it for you.

Just remove TRINITY from your mind then you will see things clearer!
As long as you're trying to bring TRINITY into what the Bible teaches you will complicated issues for yourself!


Jesus is the firstborn of all creation meaning that's the first creature God Almighty made in the beginning.
God then empowered him to do so many things which includes all the angels in heaven and other creatures on earth.
But after man's rebellion Jesus decided to give his life as a ransom only for obedient mankind because God will not accept rebellious ones.
So all those that takes advantage of the provision will become Jesus' children forever so as to reconnect our grand father Almighty God whom Adam's disobedience disconnected us from His favour.
That's the simple truth. Anything outside that is complications leading to contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines in the churches of Christendom!

Exoticfarmer:
It seems you have not seen it already. i will summarize it for you. that was in reply to your post that God made man & through man he made cars, telephone etc. Now, when we talk about creation, we speak of creating matter and existence out of nothing.(Gen.1:1) No creature can do that. Secondly, God said he never told any angel to sit at His right hand (Heb.1:13). Thirdly, there's nothing Like God created Jesus and Jesus creating man; They coexisted in the begining (John1:1) . This will help you to see the correlation. God bless you.

And who told you no creature can create living creatures?

Well Jesus was CREATED that's why the Bible referred to him as the "first born" of all creations {Colossians 1:15} you can't be the firstborn if you're not part of those been born!

Most of you do miss out the context of what apostle Paul emphasized on that Bible book of Hebrews 1:13 instead of correlating everything from verse 1-14 you just pick verse 13 and summed up the whole thing!

Well Jesus is also an angel (messenger in the spirit realms) what Paul is emphasizing here is that God never introduced any angel to humans as the one through whom we can gain salvation apart from the angel who was transformed into an embryo in the womb of a Jewish virgin who later grew up as Jesus Christ.
God spoke from heaven twice saying:

Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved" Matthew 3:17

While he was still speaking, look! a bright cloud overshadowed them, and look! a voice out of the cloud said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.” Matthew 17:5

This is in fulfilment of what God promised the Israelites that they shouldn't think it's the Mosaic laws that will give them salvation rather another PROPHET will be sent to teach them how to gain salvation {Deuteronomy 18:18-19} apostle Peter confirmed that Jesus is that promised prophet that Moses talked about! Act 3:22

So Jesus was surely an angel but his case differs from all other angels because God never introduced any angel to mankind as our teacher except Archangel Michael (Jesus) who stood for our salvation during times of distress for mankind! Daniel 12:1-3

May you have PEACE!

Lastly, a clear study of the greek text shows that the word used as 'firstborn' (col.1:15,18) is also used to describe Jesus as the firstborn from the dead. The usage here is not to imply chronological occurence[people were resurrected even from the days of Elijah-Heb11:35, lazarus -John12:1 Jairus- mark5:42 etc.] Firstborn here signifies preeminence/rank not chronology. Just like a commander in chief of the armed forces of a country: It is an office held by the president ~has nothhng to do with sleeping in baracks.
Exits thread:
2Tim.2:23-26
I wish the Word of God is not hid to you @maxindhouse 2Corinth.4:3-5
Titus3:8-10.
»I take my leave now«

Exoticfarmer:
Exits thread:
2Tim.2:23-26
I wish the Word of God is not hid to you @maxindhouse 2Corinth.4:3-5
Titus3:8-10.
»I take my leave now«

No wahala, the OP and others who are ready to learn are here so byebye!

MaxInDHouse:


And who told you no creature can create living creatures?

Well Jesus was CREATED that's why the Bible referred to him as the "first born" of all creations {Colossians 1:15} you can't be the firstborn if you're not part of those been born!

Most of you do miss out the context of what apostle Paul emphasized on that Bible book of Hebrews 1:13 instead of correlating everything from verse 1-14 you just pick verse 13 and summed up the whole thing!

Well Jesus is also an angel (messenger in the spirit realms) what Paul is emphasizing here is that God never introduced any angel to humans as the one through whom we can gain salvation apart from the angel who was transformed into an embryo in the womb of a Jewish virgin who later grew up as Jesus Christ.
God spoke from heaven twice saying:

Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved" Matthew 3:17

While he was still speaking, look! a bright cloud overshadowed them, and look! a voice out of the cloud said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.” Matthew 17:5

This is in fulfilment of what God promised the Israelites that they shouldn't think it's the Mosaic laws that will give them salvation rather another PROPHET will be sent to teach them how to gain salvation {Deuteronomy 18:18-19} apostle Peter confirmed that Jesus is that promised prophet that Moses talked about! Act 3:22

So Jesus was surely an angel but his case differs from all other angels because God never introduced any angel to mankind as our teacher except Archangel Michael (Jesus) who stood for our salvation during times of distress for mankind! Daniel 12:1-3

May you have PEACE!

Brother thanks for your contribution, I have learned a wisdom from you, and I quote "You cannot be the First born, if you are not part of those being born" thanks

cosiocan:

Brother thanks for your contribution, I have learned a wisdom from you, and I quote "You cannot be the First born, if you are not part of those being born" thanks

2Corinthians 13:14

cosiocan:

Brother thanks for your contribution, I have learned a wisdom from you, and I quote "You cannot be the First born, if you are not part of those being born" thanks

Who has God spoken this to before among all creations?
" For unto which of the angel said he at any time, Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee__" Heb.1:5


https://www.nairaland.com/7157023/small-scale-business-recognition-nigeria

Queenttoast01:

Who has God spoken this to before among all creations?
" For unto which of the angel said he at any time, Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee__" Heb.1:5

That's the simplest question ever and the answer is Archangel Michael known in the flesh as Jesus Christ of Nazareth!

MaxInDHouse:


That's the simplest question ever and the answer is Archangel Michael known in the flesh as Jesus Christ of Nazareth!

Maxi, your idea that the Messiah is Michael the Archangel is not well established or rooted in the scriptures because in the book of Rev. Michael and his Angels fought with the dragon and his Angels and overcome him by the blood of the Lamb Messiah but not by Michael's. that explains that Michael isn't the Messiah.
Revelation 12:7-9, 11 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Your god is a creature.
That means something made it, who made those things that made it?

Maynman:
Your god is a creature.
That means something made it, who made those things that made it?

My God who is YAHUWAH isn't created, He's the creator of all things including His son Yahushua.
The Bible account of creation is the most accurate,
We have Yahuwah the Father who's self existing.
YAHUWAH created the Yahushua from Himself and gave him his own life to become his Son
Then Yahuwah sent His Son by His Spirit to create all things, therefore Yahuwah is the Elohim that created all things using Yahushua as his vessel, or prophet of creation or servant of creation.
Therefore Yahushua speaks and Yahuwah by his Spirit created or caused the word to take form.

cosiocan:

My God who is YAHUWAH isn't created, He's the creator of all things including His son Yahushua.
The Bible account of creation is the most accurate,
We have Yahuwah the Father who's self existing.
YAHUWAH created the Yahushua from Himself and gave him his own life to become his Son
Then Yahuwah sent His Son by His Spirit to create all things, therefore Yahuwah is the Elohim that created all things using Yahushua as his vessel, or prophet of creation or servant of creation.
Therefore Yahushua speaks and Yahuwah by his Spirit created or caused the word to take form.

You are just forming up names, you are confused.
Yahweh(yhwh) from the shasu tribe which you ignorantly call “yahuwah” is different from Elohim.
And there’s nothing like “yahushua”.

Disagree

cosiocan:

Maxi, your idea that the Messiah is Michael the Archangel is not well established or rooted in the scriptures because in the book of Rev. Michael and his Angels fought with the dragon and his Angels and overcome him by the blood of the Lamb Messiah but not by Michael's. that explains that Michael isn't the Messiah.
Revelation 12:7-9, 11 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Are you ready to learn?

MaxInDHouse:

Are you ready to learn?

If you're ready for the indisputable proof that Jesus is the Archangel Michael in the Bible i'm willing to TEACH you but if you're not it's OK keep whatever you believe!

MaxInDHouse:


If you're ready for the indisputable proof that Jesus is the Archangel Michael in the Bible i'm willing to TEACH you but if you're not it's OK keep whatever you believe!

Fallen watcher bwahahahaha

MaxInDHouse:


And who told you no creature can create living creatures?

Well Jesus was CREATED that's why the Bible referred to him as the "first born" of all creations {Colossians 1:15} you can't be the firstborn if you're not part of those been born!

Most of you do miss out the context of what apostle Paul emphasized on that Bible book of Hebrews 1:13 instead of correlating everything from verse 1-14 you just pick verse 13 and summed up the whole thing!

Well Jesus is also an angel (messenger in the spirit realms) what Paul is emphasizing here is that God never introduced any angel to humans as the one through whom we can gain salvation apart from the angel who was transformed into an embryo in the womb of a Jewish virgin who later grew up as Jesus Christ.
God spoke from heaven twice saying:

Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved" Matthew 3:17

While he was still speaking, look! a bright cloud overshadowed them, and look! a voice out of the cloud said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.” Matthew 17:5

This is in fulfilment of what God promised the Israelites that they shouldn't think it's the Mosaic laws that will give them salvation rather another PROPHET will be sent to teach them how to gain salvation {Deuteronomy 18:18-19} apostle Peter confirmed that Jesus is that promised prophet that Moses talked about! Act 3:22

So Jesus was surely an angel but his case differs from all other angels because God never introduced any angel to mankind as our teacher except Archangel Michael (Jesus) who stood for our salvation during times of distress for mankind! Daniel 12:1-3

May you have PEACE!

I like u alot and I know ur a JW...and ur right in some instances,I av bn following u and people from different backgrounds and I don't really talk but in few cases...u are at fault and d other guy is at fault...and I am gonna point dat and den correlate the two opinion...u always claim angel Michael is Jesus using Daniel 12:1-3 but forgetting that Daniel 10:13 clearly showed us dat Michael I just one of the unnumbered Archangels in heaven and there is no correlation between Jesus and Michael...even Jude bn a brother to Jesus would av linked Michael with Jesus if it were true but simply referred to him as Michael and notin more.
To the other guy...he was wrong and u we're right wen he said the Father who is the one and true God is not greater than Jesus is the first born (prototype) of all creation wen Jesus himself numeriosly stated it that His Father and His God is greater than him-John 14:28 and even Paul stated it that it was God dat delegated power and authority to Jesus to act until the assignment is done in-1corinth 15:27-28...
Here is my conclusion...
We will keep getting ourselves wrong if we start learning to denominational and doctrinal bais...it is time we start interpreting the Bible the way it is without trying to make a denomination or sect more Superior to another...and most importantly,we divide us more is when everyone start inferring meaning to scriptures...inference brings diversity and diversity potentially brings division...let's just keep the Bible simple and stay within it confines for interpretation and not inference