Lighthouse50:
Dear readers, Acts 1 vs 8 says 'and you shall receive power when the holyspirit falls on you. Then you will be my witness from jerusalem to the uttermost part of the earth' Holyspirit is needed to receive power. Please how do one get the holyspirit? How long does it take to get it? Those who have gotten it, can you tell us your experience. Waiting for responses.

I think you are mixing up two different things
1. Baptism of/with the Holy Spirit:
This occurs just once in a person's life at SALVATION. You are Baptized by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ. Anyone who is not baptized by the Holy Spirit is NOT Born Again! The Holy Spirit is our seal of Ownership by God. He gives us the right of Sonship of God.

Eph 4:4-5:
"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism,"

2Cor 1:22:
"Who has also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts."

Eph 1:13:
"In whom you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

Eph 4:30:
"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby you are sealed to the day of redemption."



2. Being Filled with the Holy Spirit:
It simply means being fully controlled by the Holy Spirit. We are commanded to be continually filled with the Holy Spirit. When we are filled with the Holy Spirit, signs may accompany it such as FAITH, BOLDNESS, MIRACLES, TONGUES/INTERPRETATION or any of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as needed.

This is what is usually confused by the Pentecostal brethren as Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:4:
"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

Eph 5:18:
"And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;"

Acts 2:4:
"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

Acts 4:8:
"Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said to them, You rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,"

Acts 4:31: "And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spoke the word of God with boldness."

Acts 9:17: "
And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared to you in the way as you came, has sent me, that you might receive your sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."

Acts 13:9:
"Then Saul, (who also is called Paul, ) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him."




Note:
Everyone who is born again already has the power.
The power is activated through
1. Faith in Christ backing you up
2. Commanding the Mountain to move. (Doing the Work of Preaching, Healing and Deliverance)

You will note that most of those who claim that the evidence of their baptism of the Holy Ghost has NOTHING to show for the Power except their blabbing!

immaculatesense:

Dear Dtruthspeaker
Your not being sincere...wat led to this discussion was wen u opine sat one must be holy before one can receive the holy spirit...but I like others told u that there is no time frame...

Do you see this is a crazy statement, "One must be holy there is time frame"?

Meanwhile time frame is not the issue and I have shown you the things God would uses to mark a person holy.

I am staying in my place in not doing God's Job of judging "this person is holy" which is the sin you want me to commit as you people easily do.

As you have seen I have pleaded the facts as you have even tested and now see, that those who received The Holy Spirit are those who we little men, would say that they are in a state that we would have called holy except that we respect the fact that it is God Who is the One Who hands down the judgement of Holiness, which is proven by the giving of His Holy Spirit as you yourself showed by stating Ephesians 1:132; Corinthians 1:22

So, this case is closed and you are just going round seeking a new way to re-argue as shown by the remainder of your comments most especially as I have shown you how it applied in Samaria as you requested and you do not have a valid objection.

So, you are raising New issues (your w
wrong opinion of good work traveling all the way back to Paul's conversion {and funny you say conversion, yet you still call him a murderer, as if being born again is not a conversion. I don't want to go into all that here.} for argument and re-argument, which is not a valid counter.

If you are interested in pursuing these matters, raise a fresh thread and quote me, I would meet you there.

But on this and on this issue, you really do not have a good opposition. You lost this one.

immaculatesense:

Now back to Act 8 (Samarian crowd and Simon the magician)
The Bible did not tell us the number of days it took the Samarians to receive the holy spirit

As long as you see that it took days, which you have just impliedly admitted, I am in order.

immaculatesense:

but the Bible said immediately Peter and John arrived... IMMEDIATELY

Not in issue at all!

immaculatesense:

Now on Simon...
You said something very important but u don't understand wat it means...u said "the heart is not right in the sight of God".The question is wat does that statement means and wat does it mean to be right with God".

Fresh Issue! I know what it means even if you do not. But as I said, New Issue, New thread!

immaculatesense:

Read and learn sir...Read Romans 3:22
[22]We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Chris[/b]t. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.

New Issues! What does the bolded truly mean? I know what it means but from the way you argue, you still don't know and you would fall when I argue against you. But this is not the place and others have said everything you are going to say and they never stood against me. So new thread if you think you can validly stand and show that I am Wrong.

immaculatesense:

Simon did not receive the holy spirit because he [b]did not have faith (this is important,there is a difference between to believe

When the Bible has already clearly told us what he did not have! See, now you are cancelling what the Bible said and adding to it.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Dtruthspeaker:


Do you see this is a crazy statement, "One must be holy there is time frame"?

Meanwhile time frame is not the issue and I have shown you the things God would uses to mark a person holy.

I am staying in my place in not doing God's Job of judging "this person is holy" which is the sin you want me to commit as you people easily do.

As you have seen I have pleaded the facts as you have even tested and now see, that those who received The Holy Spirit are those who we little men, would say that they are in a state that we would have called holy except that we respect the fact that it is God Who is the One Who hands down the judgement of Holiness, which is proven by the giving of His Holy Spirit as you yourself showed by stating Ephesians 1:132; Corinthians 1:22

So, this case is closed and you are just going round seeking a new way to re-argue as shown by the remainder of your comments most especially as I have shown you how it applied in Samaria as you requested and you do not have a valid objection.

So, you are raising New issues (your w
wrong opinion of good work traveling all the way back to Paul's conversion {and funny you say conversion, yet you still call him a murderer, as if being born again is not a conversion. I don't want to go into all that here.} for argument and re-argument, which is not a valid counter.

If you are interested in pursuing these matters, raise a fresh thread and quote me, I would meet you there.

But on this and on this issue, you really do not have a good opposition. You lost this one.



As long as you see that it took days, which you have just impliedly admitted, I am in order.



Not in issue at all!



Fresh Issue! I know what it means even if you do not. But as I said, New Issue, New thread!



New Issues! What does the bolded truly mean? I know what it means but from the way you argue, you still don't know and you would fall when I argue against you. But this is not the place and others have said everything you are going to say and they never stood against me. So new thread if you think you can validly stand and show that I am Wrong.



When the Bible has already clearly told us what he did not have! See, now you are cancelling what the Bible said and adding to it.

You don't know what you are talking about.

U are just (politely) something else...u seem confused...
I av explained to u wat bn right with God is from the scriptures which is Faith which Simon lacks.
I av shown ur dat the time people receivedthe holy spirit in the scriptures varies. The apostles for instance waited for over three years... Cornelius, immediately...Paul, immediately...the Samarians... PROBABLY some few days...
Some did not receive before they were ignorant...they haven't heard about the holy spirit...they believe in Jesus but u can't av faith in wat u av not heard about...wen they heard about the holy spirit...they had faith and dey received IMMEDIATELY...
Read Acts of the Apostles 19:1-2,5-7
[1]While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions until he reached Ephesus, on the coast, where he found several believers.
[2]“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” he asked them.“No,” they replied, “we haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
[5]As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[6]Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied.
[7]There were about twelve men in all.

Bottom line is...there is no biblical timeframe...only have Faith.

immaculatesense:

I av explained to u wat bn right with God is from the scriptures

And this is what is called CHANGE OF POST! The issue was you did not know that The Holy Spirit falls only on those qualified by God to receive it and that those persons on whom it is given to are people who we, men would have called holy except that I respect that it is exclusively within God's jurisdiction to do so and not mine. Therefore, I refrain from commenting further than this.

The issue is not about faith and what you think it is, hence CHANGE OF POST!

Dtruthspeaker:


And this is what is called CHANGE OF POST! The issue was you did not know that The Holy Spirit falls only on those qualified by God to receive it and that those persons on whom it is given to are people who we, men would have called holy except that I respect that it is exclusively within God's jurisdiction to do so and not mine. Therefore, I refrain from commenting further than this.

The issue is not about faith and what you think it is, hence CHANGE OF POST!

And the QUALIFICATIONS is Faith...simple...
When the holy Spirit come...the RESULT is Holiness.
You can't be acceptably holy without the holy spirit in you...how will u possibly do dat without the holy spirit?

immaculatesense:

And the QUALIFICATIONS is Faith...simple...
When the holy Spirit come...the RESULT is Holiness.

See, 2 CHANGES OF POST! The issue was before the Holy Spirit Come and not when the Holy Spirit Comes.

2) The issue was you wanted me to prove that those who received The Holy Spirit were holy hence your quest in the Samaria event Which I showed you, so case closed.

There is no room to bring in your own ideas or thinkings, for that is not what the case is about.

immaculatesense:

You can't be acceptably holy without the holy spirit in you...how will u possibly do dat without the holy spirit?

Without going into fresh argument I'll just say this, you forget Genesis 2:7 and John 1:3,4 and 9 and all the scriptures which inform us that without Him, WE WOULD NOT BE ALIVE NOR LIVING.

SO, WE ALREADY HAVE HIS SPIRIT! No argument here.

immaculatesense:

Dear Mikee19
I guess @kobojunkie only believes in the four gospels (Matthew,Mark,Luke and John)... precisely only wat Jesus says wen he was on earth... anything else doesn't matter to him...

Just keep that in mind when u av a conversation with him

Oooh is kobojunkie male or female? Have I been addressing wrongly? Anyways I'll now show the foolishness of this. This exactly is what I was trying to show to everyone...

He/she is quite right to believe the gospels. But foolish to not believe them completely, for the very words of Jesus himself plainly declared that he COULD NOT finish teaching the disciples all he had to teach them, not because he Jesus Christ did not have the ability to do so in himself, but because they DID NOT have the capacity to receive it all since they couldn't understand it. I mean the same Jesus COULD NOT perform miracles where ppl didn't receive him! Did that make him any less powerful? Why would the fact that the disciples could not understand the "much more" he had to tell them make him less so, so that he had to teach or forfeit all else he had to teach them?

This was the question he couldn't answer to, even tho it is self-evident from the very words of Jesus himself! He simply doesn't believe Jesus at all, or else he'll have believe what Jesus said "I have be so much more to tell you that I cannot tell you now because you won't understand them. But i will tell you through the Holy Spirit". I mean how much clearer can that get! Anyone who really believes Jesus will look for that "much more" that Jesus said he would tell them later by his Spirit in the words of the apostles. Very foolish not to believe Jesus himself. This is why he had problems with answering a very simple question...

On the other hand he also recognizes that this must be what is meant by the words of Jesus, for he goes on to acknowledge that THERE WERE INDEED FURTHER REVELATIONS GIVEN which he acknowledged are contained in the book of Revelations. This is really a contradiction tho. If Jesus did finish all of he had to say on earth, then there's no way he could come back again to tell them something further in the book of Revelations! It's either he finished or he didn't. He recognizes that he had to come back to tell them further things, but decides to "cherry pick" that it must only be one book and nothing else, having no other yardstick to judge this but "this is the book I feel doesn't contradict the gospels, but i certainly feel that the epistles contradict", because Revelations is as much a letter by the apostle John as Galatians is by Paul. He only chooses to believe John when he details that Jesus sent his Angel to show him those things and he didn't dream them himself (because let's face, can he not have? What's the yardstick to determine he wasn't lying, but Paul was? Nothing really, except "I feel so, so it must be true!)

NKJV Rev 22:6,8-10: "⁶ Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place. … ⁸ Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. ⁹ Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” ¹⁰ And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand."

Paul said something similar, yet with no reason at all (except "i feel so, so this MUST be true!", he feels he's lying


NKJV Ga 1:11-12,16-17; 2:6: "¹¹ But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. ¹² For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. … ¹⁶ to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, ¹⁷ nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus. … But from those who seemed to be something— whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man— for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me."

So believe John but disbelieve Paul. John tells the truth but Paul lies. Quite foolish really. No logic to it...

On the one hand he declares that nobody can add to what Jesus said on earth, but then goes on to acknowledge that Jesus himself did so in the book of Revelations, only to deny it wasn't him who did so in the other epistles. Indeed he's right in saying nobody can add a thing to that Jesus himself teaches. He did so on earth, plainly told them he wasn't done, then continued to do so through his Spirit! This is why he cannot answer the question "was Jesus done" when Jesus very plainly said "I still have MANY THINGS to tell you..." = I am not done yet!

Indeed the reason Jesus could not teach them all he would have wanted to teach them was because these were men yet unsaved, without the Spirit who could have opened up their capacity to receive spiritual truths. It was not a limitation of Jesus, but of the disciples. Yet this is where he chooses to camp, in the realm of the unsaved without the Spirit hence without capacity to receive much spiritual truth, rather than come over to the epistles where they were now saved and with the Spirit and can now receive much more, hence taught much more, the "much more" Jesus had to teach them that they didn't have capacity to receive at the time due to their limitation (not Jesus')!

Foolishness is when you don't realize that Jesus is powerful; he can use MANY MEANS to teach, not only in person! He said he'll use his Spirit to continue. Why not take him for his words? Or rather why pick and choose where you'll believe he can use his Spirit to teach is only Revelations, but not powerful enough to do so enough to use whatever means he so desired to teach them in giving revelation by his Spirit but must do so in person... Delusion grandeur at it's peak!

You will NOT want to have anything remotely logical to do with a person as this. Avoid for your sanity

On the other hand immaculatesense, I'm quite surprised at your understanding of matters such as these (receiving the Holy Spirit) for one who doesn't quite see the divinity of Jesus. Well i guess that's due to it not being taught very properly, as well as mis-teachings of the Jws... Good stuff you've put here

Op, I'll now answer directly to your question:

How long does it take for you to receive ANY gift from someone who's already given the gift?

My answer is:

"As long a time as you want!"

If i handed you a bottle of Coke and said, "here, come and take this. How long will it take you receive it? Certainly you can have it anytime you want! You can have it immediately! You can wait. it's all up to you and NOT God anymore, because as far as he's concerned he's already given you the gift of his Spirit!

You see, it is true the disciples had to wait for the gift the Holy Spirit BECAUSE HE WAS NOT YET GIVEN:

NKJV Joh 7:37-39: "³⁷ On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. ³⁸ He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” ³⁹ But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."

You see, Jesus had to be glorified FIRST or else God couldn't give the gift the the Spirit!

NKJV Ac 2:33: "³³ Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear."

Quite understandably then, no way could the apostles have received something (actually, SOMEONE) that was yet to be given unto them! They had to wait until the Spirit was poured out first!. And so Jesus told them:

NKJV Lu 24:49: "⁴⁹ Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”"

Jesus told them to wait for him to send the Holy Spirit . That's the only reason they had to wait! But, see this: HE ALSO TOLD THEM WHERE TO WAIT TOO!

NKJV Lu 24:49: "⁴⁹ … but tarry in the city of Jerusalem …"

Now let's assume some believer there heard this, and then went on to wait in the City of Galilee. Would he receive the gift of the Holy Spirit on that day he was poured out upon them? NO!

What if he waited in Nazareth instead? NO!

He had to wait in ONE PLACE and ONE PLACE ONLY to receive the Spirit.

He had to wait in JERUSALEM only!

Again:

NKJV Lu 24:49: "⁴⁹ … but tarry in the city of Jerusalem …"

So you now see why people who think that "waiting" is essential to receiving the Spirit are missing the point. It was NOT about waiting, because people waiting anywhere other than Nazareth wouldn't have received him, even if they were fervent, with much desire, fasting and praying, begging God with tears for the Spirit! Again, WAITING IS NOT WHAT GOT THEM THE GIFT OF THE SPIRIT! What did the trick was waiting IN JERUSALEM, the exact place Jesus was to first pour the Spirit out! Anybody telling you to wait today isn't being scriptural if he isn't telling you to wait IN JERUSALEM! Because anybody waiting elsewhere at that time was really wasting his time! It had to be in Jerusalem or nowhere else!

There was a definite day in God's plan that the Spirit was to be poured out, and a definite place too. They had to wait for THAT time, in THAT place! This, and ONLY THIS, is why they waited! It isn't scriptural to wait for any other purpose, and in any other place!

Ok so now the Spirit has been poured out. Now what?

This is why from them on, it isn't God GIVING the Holy Spirit anymore. You won't find scripture asking believers to ask God to pour out his Spirit upon them again. He already did that on the day of Pentecost. No use waiting, asking him to pour him out again! From now on, all that's left is for the believer to RECEIVE what God has ALREADY GIVEN!

NKJV Ac 2:38: "³⁸ Then Peter said to them... " ...you shall RECEIVE the gift of the Holy Spirit."

NKJV Ac 8:15: "¹⁵ who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might RECEIVE the Holy Spirit."

NKJV Ac 19:2: "² he said to them, “Did you RECEIVE the Holy Spirit when you believed?” ”"

Again, how long does it take to receive a gift already given? It depends on when you are ready to receive it. You can receive it RIGHT NOW!

It is unscriptural to have to wait to receive the Holy Spirit. Anybody waiting outside Jerusalem would really be wasting his time! Besides they were waiting for the day he was to be given. But he's already been given so you can get the gift RIGHT NOW! Absolutely NOBODY in scripture had to wait again AFTER HE WAS GIVEN. That is unscriptural!

One more thing I must mention is that you're probably waiting to feel something, for some external "force" to come take over you before you believe you've received from God. You're really not using faith then, but walking by sight and feelings. Without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God! God's word is true regardless of what you feel! You MUST walk by faith and not by sight!

NKJV Mr 11:24: "²⁴ Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, BELIEVE THAT YOU RECEIVE THEM, and you will have them."

According to God's word, the very moment you pray, believe you've received the Spirit because God's word says so. Not feelings. Not sight. Receive RIGHT NOW by faith!

Your can send me a mail for further instructions.
God bless you.

Mikee19:
On the other hand immaculatesense, I'm quite surprised at your understanding of matters such as these (receiving the Holy Spirit) for one who doesn't quite see the divinity of Jesus. Well i guess that's due to it not being taught very properly, as well as mis-teachings of the Jws... Good stuff you've put here

Dear Mikee19
Thank u so much for ur compliment...i believe to interpret the scriptures correctly...one has to be objective and unbiased to whether I am Catholic, Pentecostal, witnesses, Baptist, Orthodox,etc...all have their fault and a prone to changes as time passes...only the word of God does not change...it is Rigid.
Psalms 119:89
[89]Your eternal word, O  lord,
    stands firm in heaven. (NLT)

Mikee19:


Oooh is kobojunkie male or female? Have I been addressing wrongly? Anyways I'll now show the foolishness of this. This exactly is what I was trying to show to everyone...

He/she is quite right to believe the gospels. But foolish to not believe them completely, for the very words of Jesus himself plainly declared that he COULD NOT finish teaching the disciples all he had to teach them, not because he Jesus Christ did not have the ability to do so in himself, but because they DID NOT have the capacity to receive it all since they couldn't understand it. I mean the same Jesus COULD NOT perform miracles where ppl didn't receive him! Did that make him any less powerful? Why would the fact that the disciples could not understand the "much more" he had to tell them make him less so, so that he had to teach or forfeit all else he had to teach them?

This was the question he couldn't answer to, even tho it is self-evident from the very words of Jesus himself! He simply doesn't believe Jesus at all, or else he'll have believe what Jesus said "I have be so much more to tell you that I cannot tell you now because you won't understand them. But i will tell you through the Holy Spirit". I mean how much clearer can that get! Anyone who really believes Jesus will look for that "much more" that Jesus said he would tell them later by his Spirit in the words of the apostles. Very foolish not to believe Jesus himself. This is why he had problems with answering a very simple question...

On the other hand he also recognizes that this must be what is meant by the words of Jesus, for he goes on to acknowledge that THERE WERE INDEED FURTHER REVELATIONS GIVEN which he acknowledged are contained in the book of Revelations. This is really a contradiction tho. If Jesus did finish all of he had to say on earth, then there's no way he could come back again to tell them something further in the book of Revelations! It's either he finished or he didn't. He recognizes that he had to come back to tell them further things, but decides to "cherry pick" that it must only be one book and nothing else, having no other yardstick to judge this but "this is the book I feel doesn't contradict the gospels, but i certainly feel that the epistles contradict", because Revelations is as much a letter by the apostle John as Galatians is by Paul. He only chooses to believe John when he details that Jesus sent his Angel to show him those things and he didn't dream them himself (because let's face, can he not have? What's the yardstick to determine he wasn't lying, but Paul was? Nothing really, except "I feel so, so it must be true!)

NKJV Rev 22:6,8-10: "⁶ Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place. … ⁸ Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. ⁹ Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” ¹⁰ And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand."

Paul said something similar, yet with no reason at all (except "i feel so, so this MUST be true!", he feels he's lying


NKJV Ga 1:11-12,16-17; 2:6: "¹¹ But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. ¹² For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. … ¹⁶ to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, ¹⁷ nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus. … But from those who seemed to be something— whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man— for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me."

So believe John but disbelieve Paul. John tells the truth but Paul lies. Quite foolish really. No logic to it...

On the one hand he declares that nobody can add to what Jesus said on earth, but then goes on to acknowledge that Jesus himself did so in the book of Revelations, only to deny it wasn't him who did so in the other epistles. Indeed he's right in saying nobody can add a thing to that Jesus himself teaches. He did so on earth, plainly told them he wasn't done, then continued to do so through his Spirit! This is why he cannot answer the question "was Jesus done" when Jesus very plainly said "I still have MANY THINGS to tell you..." = I am not done yet!

Indeed the reason Jesus could not teach them all he would have wanted to teach them was because these were men yet unsaved, without the Spirit who could have opened up their capacity to receive spiritual truths. It was not a limitation of Jesus, but of the disciples. Yet this is where he chooses to camp, in the realm of the unsaved without the Spirit hence without capacity to receive much spiritual truth, rather than come over to the epistles where they were now saved and with the Spirit and can now receive much more, hence taught much more, the "much more" Jesus had to teach them that they didn't have capacity to receive at the time due to their limitation (not Jesus')!

Foolishness is when you don't realize that Jesus is powerful; he can use MANY MEANS to teach, not only in person! He said he'll use his Spirit to continue. Why not take him for his words? Or rather why pick and choose where you'll believe he can use his Spirit to teach is only Revelations, but not powerful enough to do so enough to use whatever means he so desired to teach them in giving revelation by his Spirit but must do so in person... Delusion grandeur at it's peak!

You will NOT want to have anything remotely logical to do with a person as this. Avoid for your sanity

I read what u wrote...and u are correct...I just hope people reading on this forum(religion) can decipher or discern the Wheat from the Tares...

Dtruthspeaker:


See, 2 CHANGES OF POST! The issue was before the Holy Spirit Come and not when the Holy Spirit Comes.

2) The issue was you wanted me to prove that those who received The Holy Spirit were holy hence your quest in the Samaria event Which I showed you, so case closed.

There is no room to bring in your own ideas or thinkings, for that is not what the case is about.



Without going into fresh argument I'll just say this, you forget Genesis 2:7 and John 1:3,4 and 9 and all the scriptures which inform us that without Him, WE WOULD NOT BE ALIVE NOR LIVING.

SO, WE ALREADY HAVE HIS SPIRIT! No argument here.

Dear Dtruthspeaker
Lol...Genesis 2:7 and John 1:3,4 and 9 u quoted was never talking about the holy spirit. Genesis 2:7
[7]Then the lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground. He breathed the breath of life into the man’s nostrils, and the man became a living person.

Genesis 2:7 was talking about the spirit of man not the holy spirit (only a believer has the holy spirit not man generally)

Have u ever read Romans 8:16
[16]For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children.

You see?
1) His Spirit (holy spirit)
2) Our spirit (conscience/consciousness/life/breath that departs from man after death)

Problem with people is that u people do not research the Bible through and through before passing comment or interpreting a verse of the scriptures...don't get me wrong... nobody is all knowing but u need to be sure before passing a comment cos people could be slightly and dangerously misled...for instance...u can never see me comment on Polygamy cos I have not finished reading through and through the scriptures to compare and contrast objectively and know wat is wat...so for now I would rather read than comment.

Go and keep learning and avoid commenting on issues u don't know every scriptures that talks about it. Please humbly take this as an advice and not insult.
Thank you

Mikee19:
On the other hand immaculatesense, I'm quite surprised at your understanding of matters such as these (receiving the Holy Spirit) for one who doesn't quite see the divinity of Jesus. Well i guess that's due to it not being taught very properly, as well as mis-teachings of the Jws... Good stuff you've put here

Are u taking about me not believing in the divinity of Jesus?...
Are u kidding me...I believe 100%
The only thing that i kept saying is what Christ says which is that "the Father is greater than the Son"...so I believe that there is Hierarchy in the Godhead which is that the Father is the One True God and the greatest of all.
I have explained dis times and times again. That's why some people sometimes thing I am JW but no...I am Pentecostal but I don't support the Trinity misinterpretation...u know am not subjective no matter the topic
Like I said Trinity was trimmed from Tri+unity=Trinity
Tri= three
Unity=Unity in purpose or aim

So,the Father and the Son and the Spirit (three) are United in Purpose.
But that doesn't take the fact that the Father is greater than the Son and controls the spirit...
Now read these two verses
John 14:28
[28]Remember what I told you: I am going away, but I will come back to you again. If you really loved me, you would be happy that I am going to the Father, who is greater than I am.

John 14:26
[26]But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you.

You can see that it is the Father giving direction and authority. And when the mission is fulfilled...the son will hand everything over to the Father and return to live IN the Father as the word(his initial position and glory)

1 Corinthians 15:28
[28]Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

You can read clearly that the son will put himself UNDER the authority of the Father.

The only thing I against the JW for claiming that Jesus is Angel Michael and I av prove the fault of that teaching over and over again.

This is the True Teaching and Worthy Saying
Thank u

immaculatesense:

Are u taking about me not believing in the divinity of Jesus?...
Are u kidding me...I believe 100%
The only thing that i kept saying is what Christ says which is that "the Father is greater than the Son"...so I believe that there is Hierarchy in the Godhead which is that the Father is the One True God and the greatest of all.
I have explained dis times and times again. That's why some people sometimes thing I am JW but no...I am Pentecostal but I don't support the Trinity misinterpretation...u know am not subjective no matter the topic
Like I said Trinity was trimmed from Tri+unity=Trinity
Tri= three
Unity=Unity in purpose or aim

So,the Father and the Son and the Spirit (three) are United in Purpose.
But that doesn't take the fact that the Father is greater than the Son and controls the spirit...
Now read these two verses
John 14:28
[28]Remember what I told you: I am going away, but I will come back to you again. If you really loved me, you would be happy that I am going to the Father, who is greater than I am.

John 14:26
[26]But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you.

You can see that it is the Father giving direction and authority. And when the mission is fulfilled...the son will hand everything over to the Father and return to live IN the Father as the word(his initial position and glory)

1 Corinthians 15:28
[28]Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

You can read clearly that the son will put himself UNDER the authority of the Father.

The only thing I against the JW for claiming that Jesus is Angel Michael and I av prove the fault of that teaching over and over again.

This is the True Teaching and Worthy Saying
Thank u

1) I had seen you say Jesus was created before. This is a misunderstanding of scripture

2) Of course the Father was greater than Jesus when he was a man! That's a given! You can see why that can be true

3) You said Jesus will return to live IN God. But when he does, who is greater than who, when God is only ONE BEING since Jesus now lives in him AS A SINGLE BEING?! It's like saying I'm greater than my blood inside me. This make no sense at all whatsoever anymore for one who's living INSIDE God as a single being with him

4) That version obscures 1 Cor 15 that you quoted saying Jesus will "put himself under God's authority" as tho he's not one God with the Father

if you just make these adjustments, you'll see where you've been lacking

immaculatesense:

Dear Dtruthspeaker
Lol...Genesis 2:7 and John 1:3,4 and 9 u quoted was never talking about the holy spirit. Genesis 2:7

..[/quote]

Which Spirit does God have, that He would give, when He gives? Is it an Unholy one?

Can a Mango give bitter kola? Mathew 7:17-18

It is just plain simple common sense!

Mikee19:

You see, it is true the disciples had to wait for the gift the Holy Spirit BECAUSE HE WAS NOT YET GIVEN:

...Jesus told them to wait for him to send the Holy Spirit . That's the only reason they had to wait! But, see this: HE ALSO TOLD THEM WHERE TO WAIT TOO!

NKJV Lu 24:49: "⁴⁹ … but tarry in the city of Jerusalem …"

Now let's assume some believer there heard this, and then went on to wait in the City of Galilee. Would he receive the gift of the Holy Spirit on that day he was poured out upon them? NO!

What if he waited in Nazareth instead? NO!

He had to wait in ONE PLACE and ONE PLACE ONLY to receive the Spirit.

He had to wait in JERUSALEM only! ...

Oh Sweet! Someone Sees! All the things and more I wish to say but could not. Eg what if He goes awhoring whilst in Jerusalem, shall he receive it?

No!

Dtruthspeaker:
..

Which Spirit does God have? Is it an Unholy one?

It is just simple common sense!

God is the Holy spirit...is anyone contesting that? NO

But the breath breathe into man was what we are talking about here that will return back to God after death...this are two different things like I av quoted for u
Romans 8:16
[16]For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children.

immaculatesense:

God is the Holy spirit...is anyone contesting that? NO

Good! Since you know and have admitted that God is The Holy Spirit, what then did Mathew 7:17-18 teach?

Answer:" A Mango can never give bitter kola!"

Therefore, The Holy, must give The Holy! That is The Law!

My case is rested!

Mikee19:

One more thing I must mention is that you're probably waiting to feel something, for some external "force" to come take over you before you believe you've received from God...

Like the Day of Pentecost, there is an external change when The Holy Spirit Comes.

immaculatesense:

Dear Mikee19
I guess @kobojunkie only believes in the four gospels (Matthew,Mark,Luke and John)... precisely only wat Jesus says wen he was on earth... anything else doesn't matter to him...

Just keep that in mind when u av a conversation with him

3 or 4 years back he even moved from being slightly pro-God to full blown Anti-God and supported all the works of atheists, with many asking him are you an atheist or something.

Then when he saw God overcoming their arguments he then transformed to the rubbish we see today.

He is definitely still suffering from the mental imbalance he once confessed that he was afflicted with.

That is the story of kobojunkie over the period of time I have seen.

Kobojunkie:
I understand that I am deluded simply because[b] i don't spew the same lies your pastors[/b] and mogs have fed you lot with. Yet not a single one of you has been able to prove me wrong by the Word of God Himself, Jesus Christ. What a shame, yet you call Him Savior!

At least you confess that you Lie, only that it is a different type of Lie! The kobojunkie type.

Mikee19:


1) I had seen you say Jesus was created before. This is a misunderstanding of scripture

2) Of course the Father was greater than Jesus when he was a man! That's a given! You can see why that can be true

3) You said Jesus will return to live IN God. But when he does, who is greater than who, when God is only ONE BEING since Jesus now lives in him AS A SINGLE BEING?! It's like saying I'm greater than my blood inside me. This make no sense at all whatsoever anymore for one who's living INSIDE God as a single being with him

4) That version obscures 1 Cor 15 that you quoted saying Jesus will "put himself under God's authority" as tho he's not one God with the Father

if you just make these adjustments, you'll see where you've been lacking

Dear Mikee19
What I told u about the Trinity is the truth about the Trinity...it is real but it had not been taught the way it should...every point I ever make on any topic are Yeah and Amen cos I don't think...I let the Bible still...
You listed four(4) things up there...let me speaking on them one after the other...not me but the Bible.
There were two separation (one for creation and one for Salvation)

1) You said I said "Jesus was created"
Not me...but the Bible said so...now Read...and take note of the words put in capital...
Firstborn means two things in Greek (a) to be born first in orderly manner (b) to be a prototype of an experiment.
Proverbs 8:22
[22]“The lord FORMED me from the beginning,
    before he created anything else.

You can see it not me...the Word Form means Made or Created. Someone must av done the FORMING right and that person is the Father.

Proverbs 8:24-25
[24]I was BORN before the oceans were created,
    before the springs bubbled forth their waters.
[25]Before the mountains were formed,
    before the hills, I was BORN—

The word Born means to be brought forth,Produced. Someone was born...so,someone must av done the giving birth right?...we believe it's the Father.

You can see it's not me...it is the Person Himself that was saying of Himself..."I was FORMED...I was BORN"...Not me...

2) You said the Father is greater than Jesus wen he was a man alone...
Okay let me show something...
Mark 14:62
[62]Jesus said, “i am. And you will see the Son of Man seated in the place of power at God’s right hand and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Mark 16:19
[19]When the Lord Jesus had finished talking with them, he was taken up into heaven and sat down in the place of honor at God’s right hand.

Jesus is talking about his second coming here...he was no longer a man...but still he earn a place with God that Put everything else under him... except the Father himself as proven in 1 Corinthians 15:27
[27]For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.” (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.)
You can see even Paul stated it clear that someone gave someone authority. Similar to Pharaoh and Joseph in Genesis 41:40
[40]You will be in charge of my court, and all my people will take orders from you. Only I, sitting on my throne, will have a rank higher than yours.”

3) You have a point in ur third assertion...but I stated it clearer...u used the analogy of man and his blood...that analogy does not apply to God and Christ...the best analogy that fits will be a man and his word since Christ is the Word of God...now let me explain the next verse I did not quote to u...I only quoted verse 27...now read verse 28 urself...
1 Corinthians 15:28
[28]Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

You can see...the relationship between God and His Word...it is a known fact that Man has control over his own word. Since Christ has fulfilled his assignment..."he put himself under God authority"
But u raised a crucial point...since Christ return to being God's word and living inside him...can a man be separated or differentiated from his word?
Now Read Philippians 2:6
[6]Though he was God,
    he did not think of equality with God
    as something to cling to.

In that other thread I explained why "WAS" was used in both Philippians 2:6 and John 1:1...but the summary is...when the Salvation assignment is fulfilled...the Son and the Spirit will return to the Father and ALL will be ONE Father who is the One and Only True God.
"...God will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere" vs 28b.

4) Quote me any version or versions that suite u and I will show u they av the same interpretation...the original meaning are unchanged.

That's the Truth about the True interpretation of The Trinity.

Dtruthspeaker:


3 or 4 years back he even moved from being slightly pro-God to full blown Anti-God and supported all the works of atheists, with many asking him are you an atheist or something.

Then when he saw God overcoming their arguments he then transformed to the rubbish we see today.

He is definitely still suffering from the mental imbalance he once confessed that he was afflicted with.

That is the story of kobojunkie over the period of time I have seen.

It is our duty and Joy to keep teaching and praying for them...no soul must be lost...if Paul can be saved...him and many more others will come to the light of the truth...WE DONT GIVE UP

immaculatesense:

It is our duty and Joy to keep teaching and praying for them...no soul must be lost...even Paul can be saved...him and many more others will come to the light of the truth...WE DONT GIVE UP

That I will not do for it is easier to force a horse to drink than to get an adult to change his ways exactly, as the Bible tried and it did not work. The Lord Himself tried and yet men refused to listen.

Dtruthspeaker:


Good! Since you know and have admitted that God is The Holy Spirit, what then did Mathew 7:17-18 teach?

Answer:" A Mango can never give bitter kola!"

Therefore, The Holy, must give The Holy! That is The Law!

My case is rested!

Matthew 7:17-18
[17]A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit.
[18]A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit.

Now I realize the little glitches u av in Bible interpretation...u don't know which one comes first...
Ohhh...u think a holy man house the holy spirit...instead it should be...
The Holy spirit in man makes man holy...

That the little misinterpretation that affected ur interpretation...u don't know wat does wat first.

Lighthouse50:
Dear readers, Acts 1 vs 8 says 'and you shall receive power when the holyspirit falls on you. Then you will be my witness from jerusalem to the uttermost part of the earth' Holyspirit is needed to receive power. Please how do one get the holyspirit? How long does it take to get it? Those who have gotten it, can you tell us your experience. Waiting for responses.

Faith is the currency of transaction in the spiritual realm.

Depending on your level of faith, you can receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit quickly.

But if your faith is not enough, seek a genuine man of God for impartation.

Dtruthspeaker:
..

Which Spirit does God have, that He would give, when He gives? Is it an Unholy one?

Can a Mango give bitter kola? Mathew 7:17-18

It is just plain simple common sense!

Ohhh...I now know where the problem lies...u don't know why the holy spirit was given...let me tell u sometin small Sha...cos of time...
Wen God breath into man and he became a living spirit...he was right with God until the devil came with dceit...then the spirit of man that knows only good now knows evil and with time the evil became more prominent.
Genesis 6:5
[5]The lord observed the extent of human wickedness on the earth, and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil.

So,the spirit of man was corrupted...so,wen a man believe and receive the Holy spirit...the Holy spirit arrest the spirit of man and take charge. That's why the Bible says "as many as a led by the Spirit of God(Holy spirit),they are the sons and daughters of God"
Romans 8:14
[14]For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.

You can see that the spirit comes first to make us right with God(holy) and not that we are already right with God before we have the Holy spirit.

That is why I quote more scriptures on any statement I want to make...cos by the grace of God (aside Polygamy) there is no topic I don't know every passages of the scriptures that talks about that topic...before I make a conclusion...I must av compared all passages leaving no stone unturned...incsae some ask a question...I will be caught unprepared.

Dear Dtruthspeaker...these are the little glitches I noticed in ur interpretation TECHNIQUE...If u can make little adjusted on these areas...u are good to go.
God bless u

immaculatesense:

Now I realize the little glitches u av in Bible interpretation...u don't know which one comes first...
Ohhh...u think a holy man house the holy spirit...instead it should be...
The Holy spirit in man makes man holy...

See, now you are twisting it the other way round and bending it again into the lie you wish to hold, when the issue here was simply because I clearly said "Holy God gives Holy Spirit and therefore man had the Holy Spirit when he was created" which you disputed until I showed Mathew 7:17/18.

No fraud escapes me.

Clearly you see the lies you have been taught do not stand, so you are scrambling all over the place to make it stand and I don't want to do so because TRUTH IS STABLE AND COMPLETE.

This debate has long since been over. God is pure and all who want to be with Him must be pure. That is The Law. Holy and unholy can never ever be put together.

Dtruthspeaker:


That I will not do for it is easier to force a horse to drink than to get an adult to change his ways exactly, as the Bible tried and it did not work. The Lord Himself tried and yet men refused to listen.

Lol...u make me laugh...force?...hell No...
I said Teaching and Prayer...

immaculatesense:

Ohhh...I now know where the problem lies...u don't know why the holy spirit was given...

See, another CHANGE OF POST all because you want to avoid The Truth I have laid before you.

The question was "Which Spirit does God have, that He would give, when He gives? Is it an Unholy one?" Now you have Changed it to "WHY The Holy Spirit was given" which no one asked!

You do not have any valid way to go!

Dtruthspeaker:


See, now you are twisting it the other way round and bending it again into the lie you wish to hold, when the issue here was simply because I clearly said "Holy God gives Holy Spirit and therefore man had the Holy Spirit when he was created" which you disputed until I showed Mathew 7:17/18.

No fraud escapes me.

Clearly you see the lies you have been taught do not stand, so you are scrambling all over the place to make it stand and I don't want to do so because TRUTH IS STABLE AND COMPLETE.

This debate has long since been over. God is pure and all who want to be with Him must be pure. That is The Law. Holy and unholy can never ever be put together.

Lol...u just keep making me laugh as u contradict urself...
Now u said...every man created have the holy spirit at creation...lol...that means every man is holy den since u urself said man has to be holy to have the holy spirit...lol
If man had received the holy spirit at creation...it means we are already holy from creation...why do we still avto pray for the holy spirit since we already av it from creation?...
Lol...
Sincerely, Dtruthspeaker...go on work on the glitches I spelt out...dis is a faceless forum...so,it's not as though there is more to that...

immaculatesense:

Lol...u make me laugh...force?...hell No...
I said Teaching and Prayer...

The spirit of your words says kobojunkie must change by fire and by force. See it

"It is our duty and Joy to keep teaching and praying for them...no soul MUST be lost...even Paul can be saved...him and many more others will come to the light of the truth...WE DONT GIVE UP