Nelidee:


There are numerous threads in this forum that have done so. Feel free to dig deeper. Lets not derail the purpose of this thread... @knowingChrist
please accept my apologies if I've indirectly done that.

knowingChrist:


Exactly! Now you're getting the point of my opinion. When we preach the truth and post on platforms like this, demonic spirits in the bodies of men want to tarnish the authenticity of such teachings or cause the writer to say this that will discourage other people from accepting the teachings.

We must not be ignorant of this behaviors of these demons, especially denominational demons. We not let them shift the focus of the discussion and we must respond to everyone respectfully so that a person will not reject Christ based on our behavior or uncultured words.

Let's know that we are a part of the message we preach. Our behaviors and choice of words matters when we speak. So lets not point fingers or insult anyone. If you think JW or any other establishment teach the wrong thing, just teach the right thing and don't point fingers.

Thank you for understanding me. GOD BLESS

Nelidee:


Ephesians 5:11
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

Please take note. I have not insulted anyone. I am only exposing an organisation that deceives its members and prevent them from learning the truth about God.

Your welcome.

knowingChrist:


I understand brother, i was passing a general message. I see many who say they're christians speak so many vile words on here and saddens me.

Also, do not point fingers to any religions, just teach the truth. You never can tell who's watching. When you point fingers, you'll make people defensive and they'll become even more polarised in their views. I may have that also in the past but i have grown.

I hope this makes sense to you.

Nelidee:


Brother, The reason why believers of Christ today are slowly dying spiritually is because we continue to keep quiet when we see evil rather than expose it.

Did Jesus condemn or commend the church in Ephesus for exposing an evil sect that was growing in their midst? Let us find out...

Revelations 2:6
But you have this to your credit: You hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

In verse 2 of that same chapter Jesus says: you have tested and exposed as liars those who falsely claim to be apostles

The church in Ephesus pointed at and exposed the nicolaitans.

So what's the lesson here? When you see a group of people or denomination or organisation claiming to believe in God but teaching doctrines from demons you expose them. Don't keep quiet. Expose them and respectfully let people know why they shouldn't be part of such group using the Bible as an evidence. What good will keeping quiet or ignoring them do? So they can continue to deceive and brainwash more people?

Were you ever a Jehovah's witness? Are you aware of their history? Their teachings? Their false prophecies? Families they have broken and torn apart? Facts about the organisation they hide from their members?

When you see something evil expose. Point at it and expose it using the bible.

knowingChrist:
I hope this makes sense to you.

Nelidee:


I hope you now understand my point. There's absolutely nothing wrong in exposing a denomination or pointing fingers at a group. So long as you do that respectfully using the bible as proof of your point.

Am sure there are alot of JW teachings you have personally found to be IMMENSELY wrong and untrue and it is your desire to have a civil discussion with them and change their mind. As a former JW, I am telling you that it is impossible to discuss with them because they give exclusive devotion to their organisation, An organisation that claims to be the only truthful organisation in the whole wide world.

Thankfully, God is a God of mercy and he is pulling a lot of people who are eagerly searching for truth out of that organisation same way he rescued people from the nicolaitans.

knowingChrist:
Some of the critical questions popularly asked by irreligious persons are: would we (Christians) still believe-in Jesus if we find out that he’s never coming back? Would we still follow the laws of faith if we find that the man Jesus was just a made up story in history?

It is natural for us to respond emotionally to these kind of questions (usually to shift the focus of the discussion), but the truth is: we will have to ask ourselves these kind of questions at some points in our walk of faith; we have to critically analyze our beliefs, ideologies, and definitions to see if they’re worth defending.

Answers to questions of these such do not only serve as response to unbelievers, but they more importantly reveal our understanding of what we are doing with our lives; our understanding of the good news. They also reveal our true intent and desires towards the faith of God, and our sense of judgment.

What would we do if we find out that there’s no consequence whatsoever for unrighteousness? Would we continue to live as the bible suggests, or would we change our lifestyle?

The term righteousness means to live (act) rightly. Therefore, the righteousness of God is to live (act) in the way that God considers right. As Christians, we have been encouraged to live in God’s righteousness (that is: to live beyond what we consider right, but live as God considers right). In fact, a Christians is one who loves righteousness (God’s).

The reason many of us consider righteousness as a viable way of life is mainly because of the consequence that we hear exists for unrighteousness, without which righteousness will sound unattainable and stupid to us. Our approach to righteousness is negative; we do not live rightly because we love and enjoy the right way of life, we only live rightly because we fear the consequence for living wrongly.

Alas, negative approach cannot produce positive effect. The impact of negative approach to righteousness is difficulty and struggle; it becomes a struggle for us to live rightly, whereas, the burden of righteousness is easy. The lack of love for the right way of life causes us to struggle; we struggle to live rightly. Righteousness is the nature of God, as we have been born by God, we too by our nature should live rightly. It should be the easiest thing for us to do.

We do not struggle to eat, speak, see, feel, or hear because these things are natural. In fact, struggling or not being able to do these things at all is an indication of a defective birth or a disease. Similarly, struggling or not being able to do righteousness indicates that a person is diseased; in sin and not in God.

We do not struggle to eat food, speak about football, watch movies, get on social media because we enjoy and love these things. Our struggle to live rightly indicates we do not love or enjoy doing what’s right; we do not love the nature of God, which means we do not love the nature of our new birth, and if by chance we live rightly, we are only doing so to avoid the consequence of unrighteousness.

This should not be the case, living rightly should be the only reasonable way of life to a Christian. The wrong way should be unreasonable to us. For example, it should be easier for us to tell the truth than to lie simply because we are born by the spirit of truth, and the only reasonable thing to do. Lying should be unreasonable to us.

A Christian by understanding sees the benefits of righteousness, he lives rightly because he loves these benefits. He sees no benefit whatsoever in unrighteousness, so refuses to live wrongly because it is basically a waste of time, resources and essence to live in a way that affords no benefit to the soul. This is irrespective of whether or not the unrighteous shall be punished.

Therefore, although there are some of us who will plunge into unrighteousness if they discover that it attracts no consequence, we should all grow to the level that living rightly is our only option of life; we should grow to the level that we consume righteousness, and abhor unrighteousness.
How would we feel if we find that no one will burn for eternity? Would we be contented with this judgment or would we feel bitter because sinners are not going to be in agony forever?

One of the peripheral reasons why some irreligious persons hate the good news is because of the said punishment that awaits sinners. They see the judgment of eternal torment as unfair and totally wicked. This makes them question God’s sense of judgment and the motive of the Christian faith.

This particular judgment (eternal torment) is not peculiar to Christianity, it is quite popular in ancient myths, and a norm in the Abrahamic religions. Quite often, when we get quizzed for our faith, we tend to remind irreligious persons of this said judgment, and this more often infuriates them further to hate Christ.

For us to really discuss how we will feel if sinners are not tormented in fire forever, we must first research the scriptures to see if there’s any such judgment in the books. For it is irrelevant to discuss a topic without first establishing the truth of the scriptures.

Is it written that sinners shall be tormented forever? No, it is not written. What then is written? The scriptures confirm that sinners will be continuously tormented just as we see in the myths of other religions, however, this continuous torment will only last till the sinful soul is destroyed (utterly).

Sinners are diseased (in their thoughts), this is why each Christian needed to be healed by the stripe of Jesus. The fire (of the end) shall be created and released to destroy every diseased cell. Each sinner shall be burned till every cell of their existence is dissipated and destroyed till they become just ash (Malachi 4:3), and smoke from their ash shall rise to the heavens forever (Revelation 14:11).

Therefore, the idea of eternal torment is not biblical, it is a horrible imagination used to instill fear and anger in the minds of those who do not understand the judgment of God. It is often mistaken for eternal destruction, the judgment of God on sinners.

Is there a difference? Yes, there is. What is the difference? Destruction is the process or act to damage something so that it no longer exists – to cause (through damage) to inexist. Therefore, eternal destruction means to cause to inexist forever. But torment means to to exist but be in agony, and eternal torment means to exist forever but be in continuous pain. These are two different concepts.

So then, let us welcome this judgment (eternal destruction). In fact, let us be happy that no one is going to be diseased forever, and the fire shall save them from eternal regret. Anything short of this is unjust, for who imagines eternal agony for someone else without questioning such judgment? Perhaps a wicked person or a person too scared to question such judgment.

Would we continue to live like Christ if we find that Jesus is not coming back for us? Would we still be excited to tell people about the Christly life?
Well, we’ve already defined why we live the Christly life, we think it is reasonable and living contrary is unreasonable. So, yes, we’ll should continue to live the Christly life even if we find that Jesus isn’t coming back.

Although Jesus is definitely coming back, in a hypothetical situation where he doesn’t, we should condition our minds to continue this life and encourage others to live like us because we are convinced this is the only right way to live. We should be like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego who though trusted they will be saved, will not compromise even if there is no salvation (Daniel 3:16-18).

We should not live the Christly life because we were told that we’d be saved sometime in the future, we should live because we are convinced of its righteousness. Salvation happens to us through this life. It is important to note that salvation is not the promise, the Holy Spirit is the promise, and salvation is a consequence. For the just (righteous) shall live by faith, and salvation happens through the faith they (the just) live by.

Thank you for reading, enjoy your holidays…

KNOWMORE56:


Well, my own opinion is that:
if eternal punishment for unrepentant sinners
means some limited years in their punishment...

Prosper1912:
Okay Oga nelidee
Can u present a better performing group that outstand jw teaching.

Dtruthspeaker:


Hope you real eyes that "eternal" means unending and unlimited?

Therefore, saying eternal and limited in the same statement is contradictory and nonsensical.

Is it written that sinners shall be tormented forever? No, it is not written. What then is written? The scriptures confirm that sinners will be continuously tormented just as we see in the myths of other religions, however, this continuous torment will only last till the sinful soul is destroyed (utterly)....


Therefore, the idea of eternal torment is not biblical, it is a horrible imagination used to instill fear and anger in the minds of those who do not understand the judgment of God. It is often mistaken for eternal destruction, the judgment of God on sinners.

Is there a difference? Yes, there is. What is the difference? Destruction is the process or act to damage something so that it no longer exists – to cause (through damage) to inexist. Therefore, eternal destruction means to cause to inexist forever. But torment means to to exist but be in agony, and eternal torment means to exist forever but be in continuous pain. These are two different concepts.

KNOWMORE56:




Not me in the real sense of it, but the op. Thant's what I understand from the below:

MaxInDHouse:

The OP is asking his brethren questions not JWs.
So let's allow them respond to him, please leave the thread for them it's doesn't worth it derailing their thread for JWs talks, we've declared our stand so let them do their things!

knowingChrist:

Lazarus story was a parable sir, which means nothing in it is real....

knowingChrist:
...
Secondly, I'll like you to read your slide again sir. It shows there in Revelation 14:9-11 that its just the smoke that will rise forever. This is what I also mentioned in the article. Malachi 4:3 puts it straight that sinners will be burnt till they become ashes. Revelation 14:11 goes further to explain to us what will happen to their ashes.

Dtruthspeaker:


Revelation 14:11 expressly said that "they have no rest day nor night,"

Thus, they might be turned to ashes but they shall live for God made us to live forever.

And it is always a living who requires rest and who can be deprived such needed Rest.

Like I always told you, don't deceive yourself and deceive others too.

Prosper1912:
OGA knowing chirst u still haven't answered the question

Nelidee:


Brother, The reason why believers of Christ today are slowly dying spiritually is because we continue to keep quiet when we see evil rather than expose it.

Did Jesus condemn or commend the church in Ephesus for exposing an evil sect that was growing in their midst? Let us find out...

Revelations 2:6

But you have this to your credit: You hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

In verse 2 of that same chapter Jesus says: you have tested and exposed as liars those who falsely claim to be apostles

The church in Ephesus pointed at and exposed the nicolaitans.

So what's the lesson here? When you see a group of people or denomination or organisation claiming to believe in God but teaching doctrines from demons you expose them. Don't keep quiet. Expose them and respectfully let people know why they shouldn't be part of such group using the Bible as an evidence. What good will keeping quiet or ignoring them do? So they can continue to deceive and brainwash more people?

Were you ever a Jehovah's witness? Are you aware of their history? Their teachings? Their false prophecies? Families they have broken and torn apart? Facts about the organisation they hide from their members?

When you see something evil expose. Point at it and expose it using the bible.

knowingChrist:


What question? Whose question?

Prosper1912:


OGA knowing chirst
if it is not by denomination can u pls explain

Matt 24:14
And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations

And

Matt 28:19-20
Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things. ”

knowingChrist:


It'll do no good, especially on a platform like this. The children of the slave woman are many so they'll call themselves and parade themselves in the comment session such that people who desire to know Christ become discouraged to look.

Like i said, just preach the truth, if you find them in person call that demonic spirit out of them but let's stay in the focus here pls. Trust me, thats the best way to go.

Nelidee:


Exposing evil and calling it out for what it is will do no good? I disagree.

This is a Public Forum. Anyone who is not satisfied in learning in a public forum were anyone is free to say what is in their heart can logout, go offline and discuss with real people in private.

And Sorry, it is not you I am to trust but God's word the bible and His word commands me to expose evil when I see it and not be a partaker of it.

Has exposing done any good with regards to the JW Organisation?

The answer is Yes. There are people who view these threads, a lot of them guests. Some have absolutely no idea the History of JW, their false failed prophecies and numerous information that the leaders of the organisation don't want even their own members to know.

When they see these arguments or discussion online, they will be forced to do more research rather than blindly join an organisation that pretends to teach truth from the bible. Some JW members read these discussions, do research and have their eyes opened to the kind of organisation they belong and they leave.

So you can't tell me or stop me from pointing fingers or exposing organisations or denominations that are nothing but wolves in sheep's clothing. We are commanded to do exactly that in the bible.

Winning souls is not all about preaching the good news of the Kingdom of God or Christ death for our salvation, you also win souls when you pull people out of groups or denominations that has turned lies into truth. You win souls when you let people know that truth sets men free, you don't have to belong to any organisation or denomination to gain everlasting life.

The least you can do is ask me to stop derailing your thread, and I have already apologized if I have indirectly done that.

knowingChrist:

Think about this properly pls. If a plant is cut down and cut into wood, is it still a plant or a wood? Now when this wood is used as firewoood and burnt to ash, do we still have the plant or we have just mental and elements? Whatever answer you get can serve for the case of the soul that burns completely to be ash.

Dtruthspeaker:


That is why I keep telling people they do not know God. Impossibility and powerlessness is only confined to man. And you are not God of plants and wood and fire therefore there is a limit to your power.

But this is not so with God. Dry bones, dusts, stones, mountains, rivers etc all live at the sound of His Voice.

So, you should expect that it is not beyond His Power when He Says ashes shall live "in everlasting torment having no rest day and night,"

knowingChrist:

Well the bible makes it clear that the wicked shall be destroyed by burning to ash and be no more (malachi 4:3, psalm 37:10)....

Dtruthspeaker:


Matthew 25:41
“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

And since you admit that Satan will live there tormented day and night then you recognise that whatever happens to Satan must happen to those people with him in the fire as Revelation has already told us.

knowingChrist:
. Bible says says the devil shall be tormented forever, and says sinners shall be thrown in the same fire but sinners will be burned to ash and shall fade away never to be seen or remembered anymore..

Dtruthspeaker:


The Bible did not say "burned to ash [/b]and [b]shall fade away" this is you adding to the Bible.

But the Bible did say in the Revelation 14:11 that "they have no rest day nor night, just as Satan too would have no rest with them in the same fire.

knowingChrist:

Malachi 4:3 And you shall tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day when I act, says the LORD of hosts.

knowingChrist:

Psalm 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, And the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: They shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Dtruthspeaker:


And it did not say "and shall fade away" as you added to it.



Isn't the "away" mean away from the new heaven and earth where the just and the meek would live forever and ever?

Revelation 11:14 and other scriptures show where and how they shall be living. It's as simple as that. No addition or subtraction or twisting. It plain for all to see, if you want to truly see.

"they have no rest day nor night,"

Smoke rising is exactly what Leviticus 6:14 warned us about "a fire that will never ever go out".

Thus, they shall burn forever!