Throughout his literature, Paul Twitchell describes the Soul experience in very vivid terms. All I can say is that no words do justice to the experience, as he also points out in his various books.

As Soul, I was a 360-degree viewpoint, traveling through a tunnel of light. It was incredible! I arrived at a grassy knoll, overlooking a yellow sea and felt a tremendous presence of love surround me.

I remembered being taught to send out love as soon as someone crosses over the threshold of death, and as soon as I did this myself, I was surrounded by hundreds of beings, all of whom I had known in previous incarnations.

Cont'd

Lai Tsi emerged from this circle of great love and communicated to me, "As you know, your physical body no longer functions in your previous world. But you have a choice.

You can remain here with us and continue your experiences, or you can go back to your physical body and live out the life you planned. The choice is yours."

Before I continue with this story, I must confirm that, as it is said in the Eckankar teachings, thoughts manifest instantly in the higher worlds.

As Lai Tsi and the others hovered over the grassy knoll, I clearly remember thinking, Well, I only have five weeks left in the Marine Corps.

Cont'd

Instantaneously, I was transported back into my physical body.

The heaviness of my physical shell was immense after experiencing life as Soul, and I cursed myself thoroughly for what I had done—weighing the five more weeks in the Marines against a blissful life in heaven.


After I was through cursing, however, I opened my eyes to pitch darkness, and Lai Tsi's voice said to me, "Did you think we would let you die when you had decided to live?"

As his merry laughter trailed off into the ethers, I regained my vision to see a worried nurse standing over me, giving an injection. You should have seen the strange way she looked at me when I opened my eyes and started laughing!


Cont'd

Lai Tsi gave me an invaluable lesson about life and death, and to this day I try to live life as fully as possible.

I have my proof of life after death, as taught to me by the great spiritual ECK Master Lai Tsi, and that's something no one can ever take away.

Excerpted from "Earth to God, Come In Please" . . . , Book 1, copyright © 1991 ECKANKAR. All rights reserved.

chieveboy:

The boldened really cracked me up. After Muslims, I think Christians would arguably come second when it comes to belief in their saviors.

Of course, Muslims take their religion more seriously than christiains do theirs.[/quote]

Eckists on the contrary don't do blind beliefs. I have told you this severally.


They rather confirm things for themselves. Eckists know and not belief. As you confirmed, there is a difference when someone beliefs what they not have personal experience..

True believers are never aware that what they believe in is not real or true, and this why it's not uncommon to hear them talk almost exactly the same way you have talked.

You often hear some Christians announcing that Jesus is real because they have a personal relationship with him.

Believers elsewhere also rely on personal experiences as proof that their religion is real.

But unfortunately, personal experiences within religious circles are not enough for determining truth because ones mind can be easily tricked into experiencing an illusion as if real.

And this usually happens to those whose minds are susceptible to experiencing such delusions or fantasy.


There's enough evidence out there if you're interested in knowing the truth, that Paul Twitchell at the beginning actually created the Eck masters which some persons have been experiencing as real beings. Shamus , Lai tsi, originally Laozi, and others where real individuals in history which Paul had superimposed his fake version of history on in order to create the impression that Eckankar is not something new but had been existing in the past. Some other religion and esoteric groups have also done the same thing . .

So for somebody like me who's aware of all of these,, there's nothing that can convince me otherwise that those Eck masters are real.

However, I would like to say that inspite of this obvious deception in the rellgion , Eckankar still has something to offer its members or anyone else interested following the part. I can attest to this from what I know personally about the religion.

Heck more Eckists have met the departed Jesus than his supposed followers. Eckist use the tools which everyone else is scared to use.

The so called meeting with departed Jesus is an illusory experience brought on by the 'tools' those eckist are using.

I am not sure where you get the idea that the man believed and and so he had an experience from "how the mind works". If anything, his response was that of someone who didn't have the slightest idea. That's if you understand what you read.

I don't think you understand very well some of the truths your religion teaches despite some of the obvious deceptions it contains. I will remind you;

Thoughts coupled with strong emotions are the tools for creating effects in the lower world's . If you don't know how to protect your mind you can be easily drawn in to experiencing the good and the bad which others anywhere in the world have created using their imaginative faculty.

Your Mahanta, in one of his books I have read, understands very well how this works, hence he strongly advise eckist to avoid people and places where black magic is practiced so they don't get drawn' into experiencing the illusory negative mental creation of others that can wreck havoc in one's mind.

But what happens to those who not fully aware of what goes on in the environment in which they live in? I'm sure you can guess the answer?

I am posting next the experience of a Nairalander with the Eck Masters.

You free to post them maybe for others but not me. I had once read a book written by an eckist, Phil moritmusu, not sure if I got that name correctly, it was long time ago, about his encounter with the Eck masters.

And even, my friend's wife who's a Christian and still is, once shared a story of how Eck masters kept appearing , disappearing, and moving about in parlour where an Eck meeting she attended with her husband ,who at that time was an eckist, was being held.
According to her, each time the eckist in the meeting closed their eyes to sing the Hu the masters will appear and start to move around. She saw them because she didn't not close her eyes or join in the singing.

If there's anything that would convince me it was her experience. I know her very well to know she's not the kind of person to conjure anything that never happened.
But, I know better now, and my friend, her husband, is no more an eckist.

I am actually watching the game too and Arsenal are doing well

The coach made the team drop two points. Fear of losing the match actually made the team lost. Second half they were afraid to play.

triplechoice:


Of course, Muslims take their religion more seriously than christiains do theirs.

Eckists on the contrary don't do blind beliefs. I have told you this severally.


They rather confirm things for themselves. Eckists know and not belief. As you confirmed, there is a difference when someone beliefs what they not have personal experience..



True believers are never aware that what they believe in is not real or true, and this why it's not uncommon to hear them talk almost exactly the same way you have talked.

You often hear some Christians announcing that Jesus is real because they have a personal relationship with him.

Believers elsewhere also rely on personal experiences as proof that their religion is real.

But unfortunately, personal experiences within religious circles are not enough for determining truth because ones mind can be easily tricked into experiencing an illusion as if real.

And this usually happens to those whose minds are susceptible to experiencing such delusions or fantasy.


There's enough evidence out there if you're interested in knowing the truth, that Paul Twitchell at the beginning actually created the Eck masters which some persons have been experiencing as real beings. Shamus , Lai tsi, originally Laozi, and others where real individuals in history which Paul had superimposed his fake version of history on in order to create the impression that Eckankar is not something new but had been existing in the past. Some other religion and esoteric groups have also done the same thing . .

So for somebody like me who's aware of all of these,, there's nothing that can convince me otherwise that those Eck masters are real.

However, I would like to say that inspite of this obvious deception in the rellgion , Eckankar still has something to offer its members or anyone else interested following the part. I can attest to this from what I know personally about the religion.


Heck more Eckists have met the departed Jesus than his supposed followers. Eckist use the tools which everyone else is scared to use.
The so called meeting with departed Jesus is an illusory experience brought on by the 'tools' those eckist are using.

I am not sure where you get the idea that the man believed and and so he had an experience from "how the mind works". If anything, his response was that of someone who didn't have the slightest idea. That's if you understand what you read.

I don't think you understand very well some of the truths your religion teaches despite some of the obvious deceptions it contains. I will remind you;

Thoughts coupled with strong emotions are the tools for creating effects in the lower world's . If you don't know how to protect your mind you can be easily drawn in to experiencing the good and the bad which others anywhere in the world have created using their imaginative faculty.

Your Mahanta, in one of his books I have read, understands very well how this works, hence he strongly advise eckist to avoid people and places where black magic is practiced so they don't get drawn' into experiencing the illusory negative mental creation of others that can wreck havoc in one's mind.

But what happens to those who not fully aware of what goes on in the environment in which they live in? I'm sure you can guess the answer?

I am posting next the experience of a Nairalander with the Eck Masters.

You free to post them maybe for others but not me. I had once read a book written by an eckist, Phil moritmusu, not sure if I got that name correctly, it was long time ago, about his encounter with the Eck masters.

And even, my friend's wife who's a Christian and still is, once shared a story of how Eck masters kept appearing , disappearing, and moving about in parlour where an Eck meeting she attended with her husband ,who at that time was an eckist, was being held.
According to her, each time the eckist in the meeting closed their eyes to sing the Hu the masters will appear and start to move around. She saw them because she didn't not close her eyes or join in the singing.

If there's anything that would convince me it was her experience. I know her very well to know she's not the kind of person to conjure anything that never happened.
But, I know better now, and my friend, her husband, is no more an eckist.




I am actually watching the game too and Arsenal are doing well



The coach made the team drop two points. Fear of losing the match actually made the team lost. Second half they were afraid to play.

Can you cut to the chase and tell me how Paul Twitchel manufactured the ECK master Gopal Das who I met in my dream as a Sunday-school-going kid?

I like how your Christian friend saw Paul's-invented ECK Masters as a neophyte ( Someone who hadn't been brain-washes to see fake things as real).

Shamus I Tabriz is another Master I told you is popular in Iran. He even has a Wikipedia page and statue built in Iran. How did Paul Twitchel do it?

Have you heard of Francis of Assisi? That one is popular with the Catholics. He is a Master as well. Hello Paul...?

Sheik Bayazid Bastami is another Master popular in Iran. Paul...?

I think to end this, let's just agree to your logic that everyone else who met them was crazy and mental, or they have very strong faith and believe in the ECK masters like your Christian friend's wife.

Cheers!

In a sense, this life is a dream. If the so-called dreams we have are figments of the imagination, then so is this life.


But on the other hand if this life is real, then perhaps there is more reality to the dream life than we have been able to recognize or accept in the past.

—Harold Klemp
The Awakened Heart

"Children at an early age often remember past lives, and they'll tell you about them, if you're their parent. Just ask them a question like, What were you last time when you were big?
They'll come up with some very interesting answers. If you just listen and make believe you are the child listening to a great sage, you can learn a lot from children.

"Children have the wisdom of God and are closer to it than many people who hae spent years in this world gaining all kinds of knowledge about the nature of religion. Children have it naturally."


—Sri Harold Klemp, "The Secret of Love," Mahanta Transcripts, Book 14

Without humility, all forward progress on the path to God is stopped.


—Harold Klemp
The Awakened Heart

When you are having the hardest time, you are probably unfolding the most. This is because life in the lower worlds needs a balance.

—Harold Klemp
The Awakened Heart

My job is simply to make you aware that there is such a thing as the Light and Sound of God and then help you become aware of your own divinity.


—Harold Klemp
The Awakened Heart

*INVITATION TO ECK LIGHT AND SOUND SERVICE*

Dear Blessed One,

ECKANKAR Nigeria, Abuja Centre cordially invites you to an *In-Person* and *Online HU Song* and *ECK Light and Sound Service* scheduled as follows:

Date : *Sunday, April 16, 2023*

Venue (In-Person): *11 Femi Kila Street, off Obafemi Awolowo Way by Lento Aluminium, Life Camp, Abuja*

Time:
i. *HU Song: 8.00am to 8.30am*
ii. *ECK Light and Sound Service: 9am to 10.15am*

Theme of ECK Light and Sound Service: *Being a Channel for God*

Officiator: *Ene O. Nduka-Nwagbo*

You may attend any or both events Online via zoom by clicking on the link below. The Online Platform opens at 7.45am:
Join
https://us06web.zoom.us/j/83702197399?pwd=WE1TYUZDMmpmZHhNaDdNUk8ycDU5Zz09

You may also log in using the following details:
Meeting ID: *837 0219 7399*
Passcode: *654216*

Please, you may forward this invite to anyone who is interested in attending these ECK events.

For further inquiry, please contact any of the following:
Tel: 0803 746 2100
Name: Tonbo Akobo
Local Director
or
Tel: 0806 262 3978
Name: Afulenu Ibegbu
Spiritual Services Coordinator

*USER GUIDE:*
*1. Remember that your comments are public. ECKANKAR is not responsible for any use that may be made of personal information you share.*
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This event is sponsored by ECKANKAR Nigeria Satsang Society, a Chartered Affiliate of ECKANKAR.

Copyright (c) 2023 ECKANKAR. All rights reserved. The terms ECKANKAR, ECK, EK, MAHANTA, SOUL TRAVEL, and VAIRAGI, among others, are trademarks of ECKANKAR, P.O. Box 2000, Chanhassen, MN 55317-2000, USA

There are four levels of dreams in daily life. Although we consider daily life not to be a dream, I’m saying that it, too, is part of the dream of God.
First there are the images or pictures, such as on the TV news, that are part of our everyday reality.


—Harold Klemp
The Awakened Heart

"When there is a need, you find that Spirit will bring help if you just stay open and remain patient."


—Sri Harold Klemp, "How to Find God,"
Mahanta Transcripts, Book 2

If you love, then all things will come to you. At some point love will begin to direct all your actions and thoughts. Then you can accept life.

—Harold Klemp
The Awakened Heart

📖Learn to DISPEL the frightening effects of BAD DREAMS.

🔍Discover this life-changing technique and more in the new issue of ECK Soul

Adventure Magazine--Why Do We Dream?
Available free at www.eckankar.org/eck-soul-adventure-magazine/

#ECKANKAR #ECKSoulAdventure

"Paul Twitchell brought out the teachings of Eckankar in their modern form in 1965.

He used to say how important it was for children to have a pet of some kind—if at all possible. It was very important for him to have a pet when he was young.

"A pet gives complete attention and devotion to the owner. Some people need this, especially children.

"A pet teaches children how to love, or at least it doesn't shut off the loving which is normal and natural for children.

It gives them an outlet. It's a very important foundation for the future."


—Sri Harold Klemp, "Animals Are Soul Too!"

chieveboy:


Can you cut to the chase and tell me how Paul Twitchel manufactured the ECK master Gopal Das who I met in my dream as a Sunday-school-going kid?

I hope you take your time to read what I will explain below. Your replies are showing you don't take your time to read me before replying.

The dream you had as a kid is not proof that what you dreamt of is real. Children sometimes dream of cartoon characters, such as spider man, incredible hulk or even Santa Claus, and it doesn't mean they're real. In a dream anything could happen. A statue or something existing in a painting can come alive an start talking to us

And it's also not uncommon for some people to dream of something they have never seen before, and which they get to experience , days ,weeks or years after in the waking state.

Some individuals have met with their future wife in a dream before they later get to meet and marry them in the waking state. For others, it could be anything, the job they're currently doing, where they now live , parts of a movie they have never watched ,or a painting they have never seen. I myself have had such dreams countless times in the past.


The reason people have those kind of dreams, popularly known as precognitive dream, is that one's higher self, the real being, also referred to as soul or the unconscious mind by others, has the capability to perceive things before they happen . Soul or the unconscious mind, can perceive the future in the present moment.

What the higher self perceive, from its point of view is what the brain then records and play back to us as dream while we sleep. I accept that this explantation doesn't find full scientific support at the moment, and the reason is because scientists are yet to localise the unconscious mind to any part of the visible human brain in order to understand fully how it works so as to be able to rationally explain such dreams.

Even when science is not yet certain of the cause, the fact remains that people have such dreams.

Unfortunately, this natural occuring phenomenon is what Eckankar is now using to make its members and non members believe such precognitive dreams holds huge spiritual significance and are proof that some of the Eck masters which Paul created are real and can also appear to people in their dreams. Nothing could be further from the truth.
You only had a dream in the past which revealed to your mind what you're currently doing . You're a now an eckist. The dream doesn't proof anything other than that,and It's your choice if you want to see it as spiritual.

I like how your Christian friend saw Paul's-invented ECK Masters as a neophyte ( Someone who hadn't been brain-washes to see fake things as real).

To you she's a neophyte, but might actually be someone with a higher state of consciousness having the ability to perceive other people's thoughts or imaginative invention ( the Eck masters). What she saw where phantom beings and it was why they appeared and disappeared each time the hu was sung. Real people don't appear and disappear.

Eckist have been made to believe that the masters would appear reach time they sing hu, and those thoughtforms was what she experienced while in the midst of those eckist who sang hu in that meeting. After that occasion she never had that kind of experience again , confirming it was what was going on then in that environment that led to that illusory experience.

Shamus I Tabriz is another Master I told you is popular in Iran. He even has a Wikipedia page and statue built in Iran. How did Paul Twitchel do it?

Shamus had nothing to do with Eckankar .He was an Islamic scholar when he was alive. There's no single evidence outside of Eckankar to prove he served has an Eck master or teach anything that has to do with Eckankar .That Shamus served as an Eck master was Paul's own fake version of history he superimposed on a well known figure who lived in the past in order give Eckankar an impressive historical past to make it appealing to those who would like to join the new religion he was trying establish in the 60s .People prefer what has been existing before to what is just starting now. That's the trick and that was why he associated Shamus ànd other prominent individuals who lived before with Eckankar. Other new age religion like Eckankar and some esoteric groups in the past or present have also done the same thing Paul did. So it's a well known method for setting up a new religion or any other similar organisation.

. Eckist are the only ones who have accepted Paul's fake version of history to be true because they believe a representative of God cannot lie. But Paul lied. That's the painful truth. Masters are also not above deception.

If you can bring Just one evidence from an outside source , not Eckankar, which confirms beyond reasonable doubt ,that Shamus ànd Rumi to be followers of Eck or Eckankar in the past, then I will believe you.
The Wikipedia page discussing Shamus didn't reveal anything about his association with Eckankar or Eck.So why sharing that link?

Have you heard of Francis of Assisi? That one is popular with the Catholics. He is a Master as well. Hello Paul...?

Sheik Bayazid Bastami is another Master popular in Iran. Paul...?

The same as Shamus. Francis of Assisi and Bastami had nothing at all to do with Eck or Eckankar as a religion when they're were alive. Paul claimed that, but it's not true.
If you insist, then bring evidence from outside of Eckankar that they did and I stop arguing this.

And where are the Catholic priest or any other Catholics on Nairaland. An eckist says Francis of Assisi had something to do with Eckankar in the past. Is that true?

I think to end this, let's just agree to your logic that everyone else who met them was crazy and mental, or they have very strong faith and believe in the ECK masters like your Christian friend's wife.

You're being dishonest here and now reacting emotionally . It's a shame that you deliberately left out some of the more important reasons I gave why some people see those phantom Eck masters in the dream or the waking state.


I never for once mentioned or even suggested mental problem as the cause. I explained that some individuals are open to seeing what others are imagining or have imagined and it's not because they have mental problem.

Most christians don't expect or believe they would see Jesus physically, unlike eckist who expects that it's possible to see an eckist master in that way. Morever one's expectations, whether conscious or unconscious, can make one have certain experiences which they may not be able to explain rationally.

What do you know about what goes on in people's consciousness especially at the unconscious level?



And I never said my friend's wife believe or had any faith in Eckankar. I only suggested she's open to seeing things like that. You can describe her as pyschic . If you like and not call her neophyte. She may be higher than you in consciousness and not yet realised it in this lifetime.



I think is better to end this at this point because this is not the first time you have tried to miscontrue my words or try to link me with things I never had in mind. Morever it's now my word against that of your spiritual leader ,Harold klemp, whose book on the reality of the Eck masters you have been serialising here. He says Eck masters are real .So with that, why should I expect you to believe or listen to anything I, who you also may have dismissed in your mind as a neophyte, have to say concerning the Eck master of your religion. I'm wasting my time.

Thanks for your time and,

Good afternoon.

triplechoice:
I hope you take your time to read what I will explain below. Your replies are showing you don't take your time to read me before replying.

The dream you had as a kid is not proof that what you dreamt of is real.

1: Okay I agree it was fake. I saw the concocted image of someone in America back in 1992 in a remote part of the world with absolutely no link to my present life at the time who told me and did things that came to pass.

I am a humble student to your school of hide-and-seek

Children sometimes dream of cartoon characters, such as spider man, incredible hulk or even Santa Claus, and it doesn't mean they're real. In a dream anything could happen. A statue or something existing in a painting can come alive an start talking to us

Okay. Watch your self in the next quote

And it's also not uncommon for some people to dream of something they have never seen before, and which they get to experience , days ,weeks or years after in the waking state.

After downplaying dreams earlier as "not real" , you somehow lent them some credit here where they actually "become real" this time even in the quote below.

I recall I told you or someone else elsehwere that even the cartoon characters are real. The dream world had been sources of fashion, literature, "fiction" and our techs.

Some individuals have met with their future wife in a dream before they later get to meet and marry them in the waking state. For others, it could be anything, the job they're currently doing, where they now live , parts of a movie they have never watched ,or a painting they have never seen. I myself have had such dreams countless times in the past.

Good. This is good...here, you're saying dreams show us real people who exist even without us meeting them. I can guess our "higher self" or "soul" meet them in some timeline right?

Let's keep going. You're doing very very well.

Note so far, you said dreams are real, and others that could involve meeting Eck Masters are the exception.

The reason people have those kind of dreams, popularly known as precognitive dream, is that one's higher self, the real being, also referred to as soul or the unconscious mind by others, has the capability to perceive things before they happen . Sou or the unconscious mind, can perceive the future in the present moment.

Dang! You took the word right out of my mouth! But then this is only true if ECK masters are not involved right? We can see all others like our future wives, jobs, timeline but "ECK Masters"? Sam sam!

What the higher self perceive, from its point of view is what the brain then records and play back to us as dream while we sleep. I accept that this explantation doesn't find full scientific support at the moment, and the reason is because scientists are yet to localised the unconscious mind to any part of the visible human brain in order to understand fully how it works in order to rationally explain such dreams.

Are you in anyway suggesting the dream world is now real and the brain replays our experience back to us and we call it "just a dream"? That our scientists are yet to find out that their are other worlds with real people who may look funny to us (like cartoons) and we go there in our dreams and our brain due to our background fail to fully present these things?

Could what I said earlier that creators of our cartoons are merely relaying what they saw in the so-called 'dream worlds"? Well it's possible if there are no Eck masters there.

Even when science is not yet certain of the cause, the fact remains that people have such dreams.

Wow. We might say even if people with a beef with eckankar do not think or proven that Eck Masters have existed since before time existed?

Unfortunately, this natural occuring phenomenon is what Eckankar is now using to make its members and non members believe such dreams holds huge spiritual significance and proof that the some of the Eck masters which Paul created are real and can appear to people in their dreams. Nothing could be further from the truth.
You only had a dream in the past which revealed to your mind what you're currently doing . You're a now an eckist. The dream doesn't proof anything other than that,and It's your choice if you want to see it as spiritual.

A'a, let me get something here. You're the one who said people get to meet people they will meet in the future in their dreams, say a wife. So if I met a wife in a dream at the age of 6 for instance and later meet her 20 years later, are you saying she was fake too?

Let's grant your wish and say Gopal Das a whole abbot of a School in the capital of the astral plane whom diverse others meet in person and via Soul travel or dream was fake.

My dad who met Harold and still haven't met him or even knew Harold was real to this day, can you give us some of that wisdom on this please? Does this mean my dad will join Eckankar or something? If he joins, willhis dream be that of a meeting with Harold which he saw before it happened?

Note Harold can't travel, my dad can't travel either so they can't meet physically. Shy did he have the dream? Harold is the Living Eck Master.

To you she's a neophyte, but might actually be someone with a higher state of consciousness having the ability to perceive other people's thoughts or imaginative invention ( the Eck masters). What she saw where phantom beings and it was why they appeared and disappeared each time the hu was sung. Real people don't appear and disappear.

She actually is a neophyte still. She is that big spiritual right? Let's go on.

Eckist have been made to believe that the masters would appear reach time they sing hu, and those thought forms was what she experienced while in the midst of those eckist who sang hu in that meeting. After that occasion she never had that kind of experience again , confirming it was what was going on then in that environment that led to that illusory experience.

ECKists again believe nothing and prove everything.

She was so grand as to be able to see "illusory thought forms", she didn't catch the one that "misled" her to an Eck center to see other "phantoms"...I suppose she would have known these guys are fake or perhaps she needs plenty more people to generate the thoughts so her "eyes" could see them?

Yes the masters come to Eck centers, and even work with many others who do not know of the term "eckankar". Just like my dad, the soldier in the earlier story which your avoided and countless other humans and animals.

A lie you portrayed was that Eckists generated the masters via their believes for your friend's wife to see. Eckists on the other hand focus to see the light via their pineal gland.

Your wife's friend how ever never saw Jesus the epicenter of all church or the Holy Spirit who is ALWAYS invited to church service. Note that you suggested she saw from the psychich realms, so that she never saw Jesus isn't no excuse, she was not looking into the physical as you put it. Not even "holyghost fire".

She had never seen these strong thought forms. Infact, she most likely had never seen any thought form in her life only in the case of the ECK masters. Kindly dial her phone on this quickly please.

Shamus had nothing to do with Eckankar .He was an Islamic scholar when he was alive. There's no single evidence outside of Eckankar to prove he served has an Eck master or teach anything that has to do with Eckankar .That Shamus served as an Eck master was Paul's own fake version of history he superimposed on a well known figure who lived in the past in order give Eckankar an impressive historical past to make it appealing to those who would like to join the new religion he was trying establish in the 60s .People prefer what has been existing before to what is just starting now. That's the trick and that was why he associated Shamus ànd other prominent individuals who lived before with Eckankar. Other new age religion like Eckankar and some esoteric groups in the past or present have also done the same thing Paul did. So it's a well known method for setting up a new religion or any other similar organisation.

. Eckist are the only ones who have accepted Paul's fake version of history to be true because they believe a representative of God cannot lie. But Paul lied. That's the painful truth. Masters are also not above deception.

If you can bring Just one evidence from an outside source , not Eckankar, which confirms beyond reasonable doubt ,that Shamus ànd Rumi to be followers of Eck or Eckankar in the past, then I will believe you.
The Wikipedia page discussing Shamus didn't reveal anything about his association with Eckankar or Eck.So why sharing that link? The same as Shamus. Francis of Assisi and Bastami had nothing at all to do with Eck or Eckankar as a religion when they're were alive. Paul claimed that, but it's not true.
If you insist, then bring evidence from outside of Eckankar that they did and I stop arguing this.

And where are the Catholic priest or any other Catholics on Nairaland. An eckist says Francis of Assisi had something to do with Eckankar in the past. Is that true?

Lol, you really have a beef with Eckankar. When Zadok for instance the Eck Master in the times of Jesus was around, I suppose you expected "Eckankar" is what the science is called?

The problem of little or half knowledge. You indeed went to Eck centers yet didn't care to learn the basics. I told you earlier Eckankar was a science. You wouldn't have that and insisted it was a religion. I told you why it was registered as "religion" but no, that would 'exonorate' it from the hold of your bias.

I need to see the look in your face right now after telling you the famous Pythagoras was an Eck Master also lol. I guess you will throw yet another tantrum.

ECK means the 'Light and Sound of God' or whatever name you feel is right for it. In Shamus, they call it "Bani" or the celestial music.

"Ankar" means "the way" or "path". This is very basic fact you would have chosen to grasp in your romance with Eckankar.

"Eckankar" hence is a science around the ways of contacting and working with this force consciously. The science needs to fall under an umbrella under USA laws and had to be a for-profit or non-profit. It was registered as the former and then later as the later.

It was presented in diverse of ways according to the conciousnes of the people relative to their time. As Zoroastrianism, parts of Buddhism, parts of Christianity, parts of Islam etc. The recurrent theme is ALWAYS the Light and the Sound! The masters give it out and withdraw the teaching and science accordingly.

If it gets mixed up with cultures and unnecessary rituals and beliefs, someone like a Paul Twichell is given the task to remove these socio-cultural and religious trappings mixed into what's supposed to be a pure non-religious science who then reintroduce it again alif the consciousness of the day is ready for the teaching or science.


The gist about the ECK Master Shamus:

'Eckankar' is a set of teaching around the subject of the Holy Spirit which Shamus was known for. Basically Eckankar and Sufism teaches you that this force is seen as light and heard as Sound.

Shamus taught about the Light and sound of God. His student Rumi spoke of this force or "sound" in many occasions in his poems also. This is "Eckankar"!!! Even if taught in a church!

ECKANKAR simply means "Science of the Holy Spirit" I don't know your beef... An Eck Master means a "Master of the Holy Spirit". As you know, humans can only create a religion of it but it can't be a religion. Physics is a branch of this science.

His branch of Islam (Sufism) deals purely with the spiritual or "Ihsan".

There are three levels of islam vis: Islam, Iman and Ihsan. Someone who has Islam is a 'Muslim'. Someone who has Iman is 'Muh'min' (Faith, believer). Someone who has Ihsan is a Muhsin.

Ihsan means 'spiritual perfection'. You study Ihsan with 'tasawwuf' or "inner transformation". In other words sufism is mysticism under the umbrella of Islam. Note that mysticism like Eckankar is no religion regardless of the religious umbrella.

They practice the 'zikr' (repeating of the spiritually charged words) like HU, the 99 names of Allah and do the 'dervish dance' to go into altered states of consciousness or Soul Travel. Shamus not only reached the God-realized state (Eck Mastership) he is also the keeper of a portion of the 'Shariat ki Sugmas' the Holy book of Eckankar.

So do hate the organization (Eckankar), but then Eckankar is not an Organization. Paul has to do this for the books as I have told you severaly.

'HolySpiritAnkar' and HolyspiritMasters exist even in Nigeria and other planets. Francis of Assisi still comes physically to Eck Centers and disappears. There is nothing we can do about it.

You're being dishonest here and now reacting emotionally . It's a shame that you deliberately left out some of the more important reasons I gave why some people see those phantom Eck masters in the dream or the waking state.


I never for once mentioned or even suggested mental problem as the cause. I explained that some individuals are open to seeing what others are imagining or have imagined and it's not because they have mental problem.

I figured you loved your contrarian candy, so...

Most christians don't expect or believe they would see Jesus physically, unlike eckist who expects that it's possible to see an eckist master in that way. Morever one's expectations, whether conscious or unconscious, can make one have certain experiences which they may not be able to explain rationally.

A'a, even "holyghost fire" they don't see? What of the "blood of Jesus" they cover themselves with. I think that one should be visible even to our aunty that you'll call later to confirm something for us given the context of use and significance.

What do you know about what goes on in people's consciousness especially at the unconscious level?



And I never said my friend's wife believe or had any faith in Eckankar. I only suggested she's open to seeing things like that. You can describe her as pyschic . If you like and not call her neophyte. She may be higher than you in consciousness and not yet realised it in this lifetime.

Earlier you rubbished what our aunty saw as "phantoms that come and go" now she is "someone with higher consciousness" or "psychic", but who could not distinguish phantoms from real stuff? Do you know what a psychic is?

You tried to mislead people earlier that Eckists combined to 'beam off' images of masters they're "fed to believe" and your "psychic" woman here was able to see them. A psychic would see how a charade organizes itself too because it's hard to hide things from that perspective.

Any lie to uphold your beef.

I think is better to end this at this point because this is not the first time you have tried to miscontrue my words or try to link me with things I never had in mind. Morever it's now my word against that of your spiritual leader ,Harold klemp, whose book on the reality of the Eck masters you have been serialising here. He says Eck masters are real .So with that, why should I expect you to believe or listen to anything I, who you also may have dismissed in your mind as a neophyte, have to say concerning the Eck master of your religion. I'm wasting my time.

Thanks for your time and,

Good afternoon.

After I read how you tried hard to downplay my experience and those of others I posted here with the Eck Masters, I saw you will go any length.

chieveboy:


1: Okay I agree it was fake. I saw the concocted image of someone in America back in 1992 in a remote part of the world with absolutely no link to my present life at the time who told me and did things that came to pass.

I am a humble student to your school of hide-and-seek




Okay. Watch your self in the next quote




After downplaying dreams earlier as "not real" , you somehow lent them some credit here where they actually "become real" this time even in the quote below.

I recall I told you or someone else elsehwere that even the cartoon characters are real. The dream world had been sources of fashion, literature, "fiction" and our techs.



Good. This is good...here, you're saying dreams show us real people who exist even without us meeting them. I can guess our "higher self" or "soul" meet them in some timeline right?

Let's keep going. You're doing very very well.

Note so far, you said dreams are real, and others that could involve meeting Eck Masters are the exception.




Dang! You took the word right out of my mouth! But then this is only true if ECK masters are not involved right? We can see all others like our future wives, jobs, timeline but "ECK Masters"? Sam sam!




Are you in anyway suggesting the dream world is now real and the brain replays our experience back to us and we call it "just a dream"? That our scientists are yet to find out that their are other worlds with real people who may look funny to us (like cartoons) and we go there in our dreams and our brain due to our background fail to fully present these things?

Could what I said earlier that creators of our cartoons are merely relaying what they saw in the so-called 'dream worlds"? Well it's possible if there are no Eck masters there.





Wow. We might say even if people with a beef with eckankar do not think or proven that Eck Masters have existed since before time existed?





A'a, let me get something here. You're the one who said people get to meet people they will meet in the future in their dreams, say a wife. So if I met a wife in a dream at the age of 6 for instance and later meet her 20 years later, are you saying she was fake too?

Let's grant your wish and say Gopal Das a whole abbot of a School in the capital of the astral plane whom diverse others meet in person and via Soul travel or dream was fake.

My dad who met Harold and still haven't met him or even knew Harold was real to this day, can you give us some of that wisdom on this please? Does this mean my dad will join Eckankar or something? If he joins, willhis dream be that of a meeting with Harold which he saw before it happened?

Note Harold can't travel, my dad can't travel either so they can't meet physically. Shy did he have the dream? Harold is the Living Eck Master.

She actually is a neophyte still. She is that big spiritual right? Let's go on.



ECKists again believe nothing and prove everything.

She was so grand as to be able to see "illusory thought forms", she didn't catch the one that "misled" her to an Eck center to see other "phantoms"...I suppose she would have known these guys are fake or perhaps she needs plenty more people to generate the thoughts so her "eyes" could see them?

Yes the masters come to Eck centers, and even work with many others who do not know of the term "eckankar". Just like my dad, the soldier in the earlier story which your avoided and countless other humans and animals.

A lie you portrayed was that Eckists generated the masters via their believes for your friend's wife to see. Eckists on the other hand focus to see the light via their pineal gland.

Your wife's friend how ever never saw Jesus the epicenter of all church or the Holy Spirit who is ALWAYS invited to church service. Note that you suggested she saw from the psychich realms, so that she never saw Jesus isn't no excuse, she was not looking into the physical as you put it. Not even "holyghost fire".

She had never seen these strong thought forms. Infact, she most likely had never seen any thought form in her life only in the case of the ECK masters. Kindly dial her phone on this quickly please.



Lol, you really have a beef with Eckankar. When Zadok for instance the Eck Master in the times of Jesus was around, I suppose you expected "Eckankar" is what the science is called?

The problem of little or half knowledge. You indeed went to Eck centers yet didn't care to learn the basics. I told you earlier Eckankar was a science. You wouldn't have that and insisted it was a religion. I told you why it was registered as "religion" but no, that would 'exonorate' it from the hold of your bias.

I need to see the look in your face right now after telling you the famous Pythagoras was an Eck Master also lol. I guess you will throw yet another tantrum.

ECK means the 'Light and Sound of God' or whatever name you feel is right for it. In Shamus, they call it "Bani" or the celestial music.

"Ankar" means "the way" or "path". This is very basic fact you would have chosen to grasp in your romance with Eckankar.

"Eckankar" hence is a science around the ways of contacting and working with this force consciously. The science needs to fall under an umbrella under USA laws and had to be a for-profit or non-profit. It was registered as the former and then later as the later.

It was presented in diverse of ways according to the conciousnes of the people relative to their time. As Zoroastrianism, parts of Buddhism, parts of Christianity, parts of Islam etc. The recurrent theme is ALWAYS the Light and the Sound! The masters give it out and withdraw the teaching and science accordingly.

If it gets mixed up with cultures and unnecessary rituals and beliefs, someone like a Paul Twichell is given the task to remove these socio-cultural and religious trappings mixed into what's supposed to be a pure non-religious science who then reintroduce it again alif the consciousness of the day is ready for the teaching or science.


The gist about the ECK Master Shamus:

'Eckankar' is a set of teaching around the subject of the Holy Spirit which Shamus was known for. Basically Eckankar and Sufism teaches you that this force is seen as light and heard as Sound.

Shamus taught about the Light and sound of God. His student Rumi spoke of this force or "sound" in many occasions in his poems also. This is "Eckankar"!!! Even if taught in a church!

ECKANKAR simply means "Science of the Holy Spirit" I don't know your beef... An Eck Master means a "Master of the Holy Spirit". As you know, humans can only create a religion of it but it can't be a religion. Physics is a branch of this science.

His branch of Islam (Sufism) deals purely with the spiritual or "Ihsan".

There are three levels of islam vis: Islam, Iman and Ihsan. Someone who has Islam is a 'Muslim'. Someone who has Iman is 'Muh'min' (Faith, believer). Someone who has Ihsan is a Muhsin.

Ihsan means 'spiritual perfection'. You study Ihsan with 'tasawwuf' or "inner transformation". In other words sufism is mysticism under the umbrella of Islam. Note that mysticism like Eckankar is no religion regardless of the religious umbrella.

They practice the 'zikr' (repeating of the spiritually charged words) like HU, the 99 names of Allah and do the 'dervish dance' to go into altered states of consciousness or Soul Travel. Shamus not only reached the God-realized state (Eck Mastership) he is also the keeper of a portion of the 'Shariat ki Sugmas' the Holy book of Eckankar.

So do hate the organization (Eckankar), but then Eckankar is not an Organization. Paul has to do this for the books as I have told you severaly.

'HolySpiritAnkar' and HolyspiritMasters exist even in Nigeria and other planets. Francis of Assisi still comes physically to Eck Centers and disappears. There is nothing we can do about it.





I figured you loved your contrarian candy, so...



A'a, even "holyghost fire" they don't see? What of the "blood of Jesus" they cover themselves with. I think that one should be visible even to our aunty that you'll call later to confirm something for us given the context of use and significance.



Earlier you rubbished what our aunty saw as "phantoms that come and go" now she is "someone with higher consciousness" or "psychic", but who could not distinguish phantoms from real stuff? Do you know what a psychic is?

You tried to mislead people earlier that Eckists combined to 'beam off' images of masters they're "fed to believe" and your "psychic" woman here was able to see them. A psychic would see how a charade organizes itself too because it's hard to hide things from that perspective.

Any lie to uphold your beef.

.



After I read how you tried hard to downplay my experience and those of others I posted here with the Eck Masters, I saw you will go any length.

You can counter what I have explained without all these unnecessary emotional reaction.



What length will I go to? You're imagining things and want to project it ion me.

I haven't downplayed anything. I only said it the way it's. The difference between your dream and those of others is the content. If precognitive dreams only involved Eck masters, then we can begin to really look at it as something special

But they don't.So how is that downplaying anything.

The stories you have shared so far only contains single individuals, either in public or private claiming to have met with the Eck masters. The encounter that happened in public appear ivery doubtful .

How is it possible for only one person amomgs a crowd of people to sight a strange being without anyone else taking notice?

I noticed you modified your reply.

Please provide secular sources for what you're explaining concerning Shamus so one can corraborate them as true. I don't need history according to Eckankar alone.

This is the era of the internet. A little Google search will expose you to how Paul associated past historical figures with the religion he founded in the 60s and how he also invented the others Eck masters like Rebazar Tarz and the others.
This is the main thing if you want the know the truth. What beef? You're the one already beefing me through some of your comments.

I have said enough.

triplechoice:


You can counter what I have explained without all these unnecessary emotional reaction.



What length will I go to? You're imagining things and want to project it ion me.

I haven't downplayed anything. I only said it the way it's. The difference between your dream and those of others is the content. If precognitive dreams only involved Eck masters, then we can begin to really look at it as something special

But they don't.So how is that downplaying anything.

The stories you have shared so far only contains single individuals, either in public or private claiming to have met with the Eck masters. The encounter that happened in public appear ivery doubtful .

How is it possible for only one person amomgs a crowd of people to sight a strange being without anyone else taking notice?

I noticed you modified your reply.

Please provide secular sources for what you're explaining concerning Shamus so one can corraborate them as true. I don't need history according to Eckankar alone.

This is the era of the internet. A little Google search will expose you to how Paul associated past historical figures with the religion he founded in the 60s and how he also invented the others Eck masters like Rebazar Tarz and the others.
This is the main thing if you want the know the truth. What beef? You're the one already beefing me through some of your comments.

I have said enough.

I am responding only because you said I had a beef with you. I mentioned you have a beef with Eckankar owing to a glaring fact!

I on the other hand am a distinct entity and personality, Eckankar is more or less an ideology. I do not see how I will pick a beef with someone who for instance says the third law of motion is fake because of his own perceptions and convictions.

I would simply try to point you to facts. Beef to what end really?

Eck masters have been verified severally by non Eckists and people who will never hear of "Eckankar" in this lifetime.

I respond so that falsehood and especially prejudice will not be presented baselessly as fact. Baseless in the sense that of all glaring evidences from people with personal experience with them especially mine and your friend's wife, you will at all cost rubbish and push your contrived contrarian views to manipulate any objectivity around that subject.

Isn't this a form of desperation?

Who is Rebazar Tarz ?

"Rebazar is a Tibetan who was head of the ECK community many years ago. Tibet was then the spiritual mecca, and the ECK teachings passed by word of mouth, from teacher to pupil....

...Rebazar Tarzs was born in 1461. His childhood home was Sarana, a mountain village in northern Tibet. His physical trips where limited. Yet there were followers of ECK all around the world, as there are today. These celas (spiritual followers) had a strong connection with the ECK teachings by way of the Inner Master because Rebazar Tarzs came to them in the Soul body...

But the travels of Rebazar ranged still wider. He also taught the age-old gospel of ECK to followers in Central America, South America, Australia, China and what today is Russia. And he met ECKists throughout Europe and Africa.

He could accomplish all this because the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master, like all ECK Masters, knows the ins and outs of Soul Travel. Its one of his special talents."

Excerpted from 'Those Wonderful ECK Masters' by Harold Klemp

chieveboy:


1: Okay I agree it was fake. I saw the concocted image of someone in America back in 1992 in a remote part of the world with absolutely no link to my present life at the time who told me and did things that came to pass.

You keep changing what you said before. First you never met or know the person, later it became Gopal Das, and now, it's an American.Was Gopal Das an American?

I am a humble student to your school of hide-and-seek

You're not humble when you refer to yourself as humble. That's pretended humility.

Okay. Watch your self in the next quote




After downplaying dreams earlier as "not real" , you somehow lent them some credit here where they actually "become real" this time even in the quote below.

You misinterpreted my words as usual, not the first time.
I only said cartoon characters appearing in dreams doesn't mean they become real in the waking state. Read it again .

I recall I told you or someone else elsehwere that even the cartoon characters are real. The dream world had been sources of fashion, literature, "fiction" and our techs.

Cartoon characters are real? Really?
You want to blur the lines between fiction and non fiction to create confusion in people's minds so they accept without thinking anything you say is real to be real?
You need to try something else. That won't work with me.
Getting ideas from dreams doesn't mean Harry Potter is real and existing in a physical location we can meet with him.

Good. This is good...here, you're saying dreams show us real people who exist even without us meeting them. I can guess our "higher self" or "soul" meet them in some timeline right?

Let's keep going. You're doing very very well.

I'm doing very well? Almighty Eck master chieveboy who knows it all. Thank you.

It's not only real people we meet in dreams. We also meet cartoon characters or anything not real.Don't forget that too.

Note so far, you said dreams are real, and others that could involve meeting Eck Masters are the exception.

I never said every dream is real. Show me where I said so?
And I also never said dreams with Eck masters are the exception. I said they're the same kind of dreams but different content. You continue to miscontrue my words and this the reason it's better this conversation ends. It's either you're doing this deliberately or find it difficult to understand me. I suspect the former as it's becoming too much.

Dang! You took the word right out of my mouth! But then this is only true if ECK masters are not involved right? We can see all others like our future wives, jobs, timeline but "ECK Masters"? Sam sam!

Here you go again.

Go back to read what I wrote again. I said one can see anything, real and not real, in their dreams and get to experience it later. I never said it's only true if Eck masters are not involved. Show me where I said so?


Also, remember I said in a dream, a statue or an image in a picture can come alive and start talking to us. People can also see parts of a movie they have never seen before and later get to see the full movie later in their waking state.

Are you in anyway suggesting the dream world is now real and the brain replays our experience back to us and we call it "just a dream"? That our scientists are yet to find out that their are other worlds with real people who may look funny to us (like cartoons) and we go there in our dreams and our brain due to our background fail to fully present these things?

I never talk of any dream world. I only said when we sleep whatever our unconscious perceives during that period is relayed to the brain for storage. Dreams scenery and imageries are created from the impressions we receive during this time.

Yes, in the context of a dream certain things becomes real to us, but when we wake up and realise we were dreaming, we no longer regard them as real. Cartoons characters can become real in dreams, but not real in the waking state because they don't exist in a material form we can physically meet with. Have you ever met with a real spider man who flies and rescues people in times of emergency? No, you haven't,

Could what I said earlier that creators of our cartoons are merely relaying what they saw in the so-called 'dream worlds"? Well it's possible if there are no Eck masters there.

Where is the location of the dream world?
The Eck masters like cartoon characters are products of imagination. They don't yet exist materially. At best they only exist as phantom beings which some people can see.

You should also realise that every cartoon character is not from dreams. People sometimes create then using their imagination in full waking consciousness.

Wow. We might say even if people with a beef with eckankar do not think or proven that Eck Masters have existed since before time existed?

You're vague here.

'people with a beef with Eckankar do not think or proven that Eck masters have existed since before time existed? What are trying to say here?

I believe you omitted something which has made what you wrote difficult to understand.

A'a, let me get something here. You're the one who said people get to meet people they will meet in the future in their dreams, say a wife. So if I met a wife in a dream at the age of 6 for instance and later meet her 20 years later, are you saying she was fake too?

How can she be fake.
You met with a physical person you later married You see them everyday after that time. Except in movies or magazines, you don't get to meet cartoon characters you saw in a dream just like you do with wife. You deliberately removed carton characters in this instance to confuse me.

Let's grant your wish and say Gopal Das a whole abbot of a School in the capital of the astral plane whom diverse others meet in person and via Soul travel or dream was fake.

Just look at what you're trying to do here.

The physical realm where people meet their wives and your astral realm where people meet your Gopal Das are not the same kind of place.
The comparison is inappropriate. Try another.

My dad who met Harold and still haven't met him or even knew Harold was real to this day, can you give us some of that wisdom on this please? Does this mean my dad will join Eckankar or something? If he joins, will his dream be that of a meeting with Harold which he saw before it happened?

You're a strange fella. Your father met with Harold in a dream and till today he doesn't know if Harold is real?

What is stopping you as an eckist from telling him who Harold is?
You want me to do that on your behalf?

You can see that the story about your father meeting with Harold doesn't make sense.

Maybe he told you a white man appeared to him a dream and you just concluded it was Harold. You know the truth but just want to imagine it's Harold.
If the story is true, your father doesn't need to meet with Harold physically. He can in the future, if that has not happened already, see his photograph hanging somewhere, and then remembers it is the person he saw in a dream. Or may not even recognize he is the same person.

Note Harold can't travel, my dad can't travel either so they can't meet physically. Shy did he have the dream? Harold is the Living Eck Master.

I'm afraid your story is not adding up. You earlier said your father doesn't know the identity of person he met in a dream.
Now, he dreamt Harold is the living Eck master.

As for meeting with Harold physically,it doesn't need to happen because he dreamt about him.

Football fans sometimes dream of their favourite player scoring a spectacular goal, and don't need to be present physically in a stadium for the dream event to happen or see it. They may not watch the live match when it happens, but watch a replay or even see the picture of the player scoring the goal just like in their dream.



If your dad already know about Harold as the Mahanta in a dream, why do you want us to believe he has still not heard of Eckankar all his life?

And you're an eckist. So your father doesn't know about the religion his son is part of?

She actually is a neophyte still. She is that big spiritual right? Let's go on.

Neophyte is a word used in some spiritual circles to describe those considered ignorant or just starting. But this description is misleading. What people say, do and can be aware of is what actually reveals their state of consciousness and not because they're not members of Eckankar

There are some children operating from a higher level of awareness, and this is seen from the things they do and say which their peers are incapable of.

The word Neophyte is for power and control within certain groups.No true master would refer to anyone as Neophyte. They know better.

I never said my friend's wife is big spiritually whatever you mean my that.

You're speaking from the position of power.

ECKists again believe nothing and prove everything.

Talk is cheap. You have proven to be a believer and nothing else. I asked for proof, but you have been sharing stories which you have been made to believe are true. Morever, you haven't provided any outside sources to confirm if Shamus and Rumi had anything to do with Eckankar in the past, yet you say you don't believe.

She was so grand as to be able to see "illusory thought forms", she didn't catch the one that "misled" her to an Eck center to see other "phantoms"...I suppose she would have known these guys are fake or perhaps she needs plenty more people to generate the thoughts so her "eyes" could see them?

She never claimed to be 'grand' or boasted she has any special powers. She only reported what she experienced while there.
Morever it was her husband who took her there for the first time. She never went there on her own. So keep your talk of 'misled' to yourself. This comment of yours, as once more confirmed you're not taking your time to read me. Her husband was the exist that took her there.

Yes the masters come to Eck centers, and even work with many others who do not know of the term "eckankar". Just like my dad, the soldier in the earlier story which your avoided and countless other humans and animals.

Not only Eck masters, anything else including the thoughtforms people carry about.

The stories you said I avoided are unverified, except by your master whom you respect, and that I know is the reason you don't question anything.

A lie you portrayed was that Eckists generated the masters via their believes for your friend's wife to see. Eckists on the other hand focus to see the light via their pineal gland.

I never said they generated the masters for her to see. What's wrong with you!
I said eckist believe the masters are always present especially when the hu is sung. And that's not a lie.

I said she pick on the thoughtforms in that environment. Nothing
was deliberately directed to her.

Your wife's friend how ever never saw Jesus the epicenter of all church or the Holy Spirit who is ALWAYS invited to church service. Note that you suggested she saw from the psychich realms, so that she never saw Jesus isn't no excuse, she was not looking into the physical as you put it. Not even "holyghost fire".

What do you know about this person to know she has not seen or experienced Jesus or the holy spirit?

I never categorically stated she's pyschic. I only said instead of your calling her a Neophyte, it's better to refer to her has pyschic since she's sentitive enough to perceive those kind of things. It was my own suggested description of her, but you're now running away with that.
SMH

She had never seen these strong thought forms. Infact, she most likely had never seen any thought form in her life only in the case of the ECK masters. Kindly dial her phone on this quickly please.

I ask again, what do you know about the person you have never met before.

Your psychological gimmick won't work.You want me to to call her about something that happened more that 15years ago. What for?

Her husband who was an eckist then ,at the moment doesn't want to ever hear of Eckankar again. And you want me to call her?

Besides she's not the only person I know that has shared that kind of experience. Some were even eckist, but they have left the path after knowing the truth about such experiences.

Lol, you really have a beef with Eckankar. When Zadok for instance the Eck Master in the times of Jesus was around, I suppose you expected "Eckankar" is what the science is called?

What beef?

You're pathetically now sounding like Christians who often like to accuse non believers of hating God. Lol

My friend your guilt tripping is dead on arrival.
Zadok the Eck master in the time of Jesus who also taught him? Another Eckankar fictional tale. Lol

What secular sources confirms that there was an Eck master called zadok who taught Jesus?
Later ,you will boast you confirm things for yourself and don't believe like others.

The problem of little or half knowledge. You indeed went to Eck centers yet didn't care to learn the basics. I told you earlier Eckankar was a science. You wouldn't have that and insisted it was a religion. I told you why it was registered as "religion" but no, that would 'exonorate' it from the hold of your bias.

If only you knew the person you discussing with right now, you would not say the above.

I know Eckankar is not like the normal everyday rellgion, but that doesn't make it objective science.
I knew of Eckankar when there was nothing like Eck worship service. So what are you talking about. You don't know me at all.

I need to see the look in your face right now after telling you the famous Pythagoras was an Eck Master also lol. I guess you will throw yet another tantrum.

You failed woefully. I only pity you here. Pythagoras was never an Eck master. Eckankar only made you believe that. It's the same elsewhere. Amorc, also tell their members that Pythagoras and others were once Rosicrucians in the past.

ECK means the 'Light and Sound of God' or whatever name you feel is right for it. In Shamus, they call it "Bani" or the celestial music.

"Ankar" means "the way" or "path". This is very basic fact you would have chosen to grasp in your romance with Eckankar.

The above is meaningless. I can choose to parody it for you to see how.

' Yamayama' means the light and sound of God or whatever name you feel is right for it'

First of all, prove that what you're talking about exist or is real before trying to describe it.

And what are the 'basic facts' in Eckankar you think I don't know

"Eckankar" hence is a science around the ways of contacting and working with this force consciously. The science needs to fall under an umbrella under USA laws and had to be a for-profit or non-profit. It was registered as the former and then later as the later.

Registered as pseudoscience, you mean?

It was presented in diverse of ways according to the conciousnes of the people relative to their time. As Zoroastrianism, parts of Buddhism, parts of Christianity, parts of Islam etc. The recurrent theme is ALWAYS the Light and the Sound! The masters give it out and withdraw the teaching and science accordingly.

If it gets mixed up with cultures and unnecessary rituals and beliefs, someone like a Paul Twichell is given the task to remove these socio-cultural and religious trappings mixed into what's supposed to be a pure non-religious science who then reintroduce it again alif the consciousness of the day is ready for the teaching or science.

You are on a vahana,lol, connecting Buddhism , Christianity and others with Eckankar.

The gist about the ECK Master Shamus:

'Eckankar' is a set of teaching around the subject of the Holy Spirit which Shamus was known for. Basically Eckankar and Sufism teaches you that this force is seen as light and heard as Sound.

Shamus taught about the Light and sound of God. His student Rumi spoke of this force or "sound" in many occasions in his poems also. This is "Eckankar"!!! Even if taught in a church!

ECKANKAR simply means "Science of the Holy Spirit" I don't know your beef... An Eck Master means a "Master of the Holy Spirit". As you know, humans can only create a religion of it but it can't be a religion. Physics is a branch of this science.

Na wah. Physics is now a branch of Eckankar.

His branch of Islam (Sufism) deals purely with the spiritual or "Ihsan".

There are three levels of islam vis: Islam, Iman and Ihsan. Someone who has Islam is a 'Muslim'. Someone who has Iman is 'Muh'min' (Faith, believer). Someone who has Ihsan is a Muhsin.

Ihsan means 'spiritual perfection'. You study Ihsan with 'tasawwuf' or "inner transformation". In other words sufism is mysticism under the umbrella of Islam. Note that mysticism like Eckankar is no religion regardless of the religious umbrella.

They practice the 'zikr' (repeating of the spiritually charged words) like HU, the 99 names of Allah and do the 'dervish dance' to go into altered states of consciousness or Soul Travel. Shamus not only reached the God-realized state (Eck Mastership) he is also the keeper of a portion of the 'Shariat ki Sugmas' the Holy book of Eckankar.

So do hate the organization (Eckankar), but then Eckankar is not an Organization. Paul has to do this for the books as I have told you severaly.

'HolySpiritAnkar' and HolyspiritMasters exist even in Nigeria and other planets. Francis of Assisi still comes physically to Eck Centers and disappears. There is nothing we can do about it.

Normal talk one regularly hears from eckist. Nobody hates Eckankar. Just tell people the whole truth, and let people decide whether to join or not. Eckankar is not a perfect religion. It also contains lies and deception like every other path or religion out there

I figured you loved your contrarian candy, so...



A'a, even "holyghost fire" they don't see? What of the "blood of Jesus" they cover themselves with. I think that one should be visible even to our aunty that you'll call later to confirm something for us given the context of use and significance.



Earlier you rubbished what our aunty saw as "phantoms that come and go" now she is "someone with higher consciousness" or "psychic", but who could not distinguish phantoms from real stuff? Do you know what a psychic is?

FYI, I don't subscribe to holy ghost fire .

And now, afraid you're no longer coherent.

It's my description of her. There may be other explanations. But you haven't come up with anything reasonable.

You tried to mislead people earlier that Eckists combined to 'beam off' images of masters they're "fed to believe" and your "psychic" woman here was able to see them. A psychic would see how a charade organizes itself too because it's hard to hide things from that perspective.

Any lie to uphold your beef.

You're pathetic and an embarrassment to other eckist I know. Where did I say the eckist conspire to beam off images so she could see them?

Just look at you. SMH.

Pyschic in the context I used it, mean being sensitive enough in that instance to perceive what was happening unconsciously. I never said she posses pyschic powers. The real meaning of a word is determined by the context which it is used.

triplechoice:


You keep changing what you said before. First you never met or know the person, later it became Gopal Das, and now, it's an American.Was Gopal Das an American?
You're not humble when you refer to yourself as humble. That's pretended humility.



You misinterpreted my words as usual, not the first time.
I only said cartoon characters appearing in dreams doesn't mean they become real in the waking state. Read it again .
Cartoon characters are real? Really?
You want to blur the lines between fiction and non fiction to create confusion in people's minds so they accept without thinking anything you say is real to be real?
You need to try something else. That won't work with me.
Getting ideas from dreams doesn't mean Harry Potter is real and existing in a physical location we can meet with him.




I'm doing very well? Almighty Eck master chieveboy who knows it all. Thank you.

It's not only real people we meet in dreams. We also meet cartoon characters or anything not real.Don't forget that too.


I never said every dream is real. Show me where I said so?
And I also never said dreams with Eck masters are the exception. I said they're the same kind of dreams but different content. You continue to miscontrue my words and this the reason it's better this conversation ends. It's either you're doing this deliberately or find it difficult to understand me. I suspect the former as it's becoming too much.





Here you go again.

Go back to read what I wrote again. I said one can see anything, real and not real, in their dreams and get to experience it later. I never said it's only true if Eck masters are not involved. Show me where I said so?


Also, remember I said in a dream, a statue or an image in a picture can come alive and start talking to us. People can also see parts of a movie they have never seen before and later get to see the full movie later in their waking state.





I never talk of any dream world. I only said when we sleep whatever our unconscious perceives during that period is relayed to the brain for storage. Dreams scenery and imageries are created from the impressions we receive during this time.

Yes, in the context of a dream certain things becomes real to us, but when we wake up and realise we were dreaming, we no longer regard them as real. Cartoons characters can become real in dreams, but not real in the waking state because they don't exist in a material form we can physically meet with. Have you ever met with a real spider man who flies and rescues people in times of emergency? No, you haven't,


Where is the location of the dream world?
The Eck masters like cartoon characters are products of imagination. They don't yet exist materially. At best they only exist as phantom beings which some people can see.

You should also realise that every cartoon character is not from dreams. People sometimes create then using their imagination in full waking consciousness.





You're vague here.

'people with a beef with Eckankar do not think or proven that Eck masters have existed since before time existed? What are trying to say here?

I believe you omitted something which has made what you wrote difficult to understand.






How can she be fake.
You met with a physical person you later married You see them everyday after that time. Except in movies or magazines, you don't get to meet cartoon characters you saw in a dream just like you do with wife. You deliberately removed carton characters in this instance to confuse me.

Just look at what you're trying to do here.

The physical realm where people meet their wives and your astral realm where people meet your Gopal Das are not the same kind of place.
The comparison is inappropriate. Try another.


You're a strange fella. Your father met with Harold in a dream and till today he doesn't know if Harold is real?

What is stopping you as an eckist from telling him who Harold is?
You want me to do that on your behalf?

You can see that the story about your father meeting with Harold doesn't make sense.

Maybe he told you a white man appeared to him a dream and you just concluded it was Harold. You know the truth but just want to imagine it's Harold.
If the story is true, your father doesn't need to meet with Harold physically. He can in the future, if that has not happened already, see his photograph hanging somewhere, and then remembers it is the person he saw in a dream. Or may not even recognize he is the same person.


I'm afraid your story is not adding up. You earlier said your father doesn't know the identity of person he met in a dream.
Now, he dreamt Harold is the living Eck master.

As for meeting with Harold physically,it doesn't need to happen because he dreamt about him.

Football fans sometimes dream of their favourite player scoring a spectacular goal, and don't need to be present physically in a stadium for the dream event to happen or see it. They may not watch the live match when it happens, but watch a replay or even see the picture of the player scoring the goal just like in their dream.



If your dad already know about Harold as the Mahanta in a dream, why do you want us to believe he has still not heard of Eckankar all his life?

And you're an eckist. So your father doesn't know about the religion his son is part of?


Neophyte is a word used in some spiritual circles to describe those considered ignorant or just starting. But this description is misleading. What people say, do and can be aware of is what actually reveals their state of consciousness and not because they're not members of Eckankar

There are some children operating from a higher level of awareness, and this is seen from the things they do and say which their peers are incapable of.

The word Neophyte is for power and control within certain groups.No true master would refer to anyone as Neophyte. They know better.

I never said my friend's wife is big spiritually whatever you mean my that.

You're speaking from the position of power.


Talk is cheap. You have proven to be a believer and nothing else. I asked for proof, but you have been sharing stories which you have been made to believe are true. Morever, you haven't provided any outside sources to confirm if Shamus and Rumi had anything to do with Eckankar in the past, yet you say you don't believe.


She never claimed to be 'grand' or boasted she has any special powers. She only reported what she experienced while there.
Morever it was her husband who took her there for the first time. She never went there on her own. So keep your talk of 'misled' to yourself. This comment of yours, as once more confirmed you're not taking your time to read me. Her husband was the exist that took her there.


Not only Eck masters, anything else including the thoughtforms people carry about.

The stories you said I avoided are unverified, except by your master whom you respect, and that I know is the reason you don't question anything.

I never said they generated the masters for her to see. What's wrong with you!
I said eckist believe the masters are always present especially when the hu is sung. And that's not a lie.

I said she pick on the thoughtforms in that environment. Nothing was
was deliberately directed at her.


What do you know about this person to know she has not seen or experienced Jesus or the holy spirit?

I never categorically stated she's pyschic. I only said instead of your calling her a Neophyte, it's better to refer to her has pyschic since she's sentitive enough to perceive those kind of things. It was my own suggested description of her, but you're now running away with that.
SMH
I ask again, what do you know about the person you have never met before.

This your psychological gimmick won't work.You want me to to call her about something that happened more that 15years ago. What for?

Her husband who was an eckist then ,at the moment doesn't want to ever hear of Eckankar again. And you want me to call her?

Besides she's not the only person I know that has shared that kind of experience. Some were even eckist, but they have left the path after knowing the truth about such experiences.




What beef?

You're pathetically now sounding like Christians who often like to accuse non believers of hating God. Lol

My friend your guilt tripping is dead on arrival.
Zadok the Eck master in the time of Jesus who also taught him? Another Eckankar fictional tale. Lol

What secular sources confirms that there was an Eck master called zadok who taught Jesus?
Later ,you will boast you confirm things for yourself and don't believe like others.



If only you knew the person you discussing with right now, you would not say the above.

I know Eckankar is not like the normal everyday rellgion, but that doesn't make it objective science.
I knew of Eckankar when there was nothing like Eck worship service. So what are you talking about. You don't know me at all.
You failed woefully. I only pity you here. Pythagoras was never an Eck master. Eckankar only made you believe that. It's the same elsewhere. Amorc, also tell their members that Pythagoras and others were once Rosicrucians in the past.


The above is meaningless. I can choose to parody it for you to see how.

' Yamayama' means the light and sound of God or whatever name you feel is right for it'

First of all, prove that what you're talking about exist or is real before trying to describe it.

And what are the 'basic facts' in Eckankar you think I don't know
Registered as pseudoscience, you mean?


You are on a vahana,lol, connecting Buddhism , Christianity and others with Eckankar.



Na wah. Physics is now a branch of Eckankar.


Normal talk one regularly hears from eckist. Nobody hates Eckankar. Just tell people the whole truth, and let people decide whether to join or not. Eckankar is not a perfect religion. It also contains lies and deception like every other path or religion out there






FYI, I don't subscribe to holy ghost fire .

And now, afraid you're no longer coherent.

It's my description of her. There may be other explanations. But you haven't come up with anything reasonable.


You're pathetic and an embarrassment to other eckist I know. Where did I say the eckist conspire to beam off images so she could see them?

Just look at you. SMH.

Pyschic in the context I used it, mean being sensitive enough in that instance to perceive what was happening unconsciously. I never said she posses pyschic powers. The real meaning of a word is determined by the context which it is used.

The funny thing about all this back and forth is this:

1: Indeed mentioned severally even to you that I met Gopal Das. You rubbished that.

2: I told you my dad met Harold, as an artist, he drew perfectly Harold Klemp. He didn't say "I saw a white man" as you villainously presented it, he drew the man lol. Still You will not have anything 'good' scribed to this experience.

Note again my old man will never meet or become an Eckist. Why urging me to go tell him of Eckankar na? So your theory will become fact by fire by force? . Eckankar evangelises not.

3: You keep hammering on Secular sources, perhaps you can tune into CNN's BBC evening program lol. Why:

I mean it's basic! Where else to study or get information about say Zoroastrianism if not in circles of interest on that particular subject?

Let's take the Man Peter of the Bible. Do you know where he was born? How old he was? Now, that we do not have sufficient information on Peter, do we now begin to declare that Peter was lie?

I posted recently the village where Rebazar grew. It's is a an existing geographical location still existent. I will take you serious as not just a tantrum thrower if you could take a trip. You're the one with a problem after all.

4: The stories Harold shares are experiences of everyday people sent him. I am not sure how he "manufactures" all of that.

Take mine for example. If you had read that or that of my father's (assuming he joins Eckankar), we will still have same result. Is it not you again? I am sure you can't wait for me to go 'convert' my father to Eckankar just so your contrivances will come to pass

5: Lol, you didn't say "they generated the thought forms" but you said "she picked up the thought forms". Lol. There is a subject known as 'Semantics' and 'Pragmatics'. Buhari was the one who generated the thoughts I guess.

6: You know Eckankar for long, that you didn't know that Horses, Cartoons and cartoonish characters and ANY of your wildest imaginations exists as REAL characters in especially the astral speaks volumes of that your "knowledge".

You were even like "you don't know am" with due respect, I understand who you are to a fault as far as your romance with Eckankar is concerned!

I was surprised you didn't know that no one can imagine anything outside existence or creation and that imagination isn't really "imagination".

You presented imagination as if it was the "imagination" of the mainstream. From there, I knew you merely window-shopped Eckankar with nothing much made of the spiritual stuff.

People like that often leave disappointed, and I am sorry.

chieveboy:


The funny thing about all this back and forth is this:

1: Indeed mentioned severally even to you that I met Gopal Das. You rubbished that.

2: I told you my dad met Harold, as an artist, he drew perfectly Harold Klemp. He didn't say "I saw a white man" as you villainously presented it, he drew the man lol. Still You will not have anything 'good' scribed to this experience.

You lie. You never severally mentioned you met with Gopal Das on this thread At first you only claimed you saw an Eck master in a dream . It was only recently, after much back and forth, you revealed the identity of the person as Gopal Das. The thread as not gone far. Anyone following can go through our conversation to confirm for themselves. It's clear you have been lying to me to prove your points.

So, why do you now expect me to believe completely your claim that your father met Harold in a dream , and has a perfect drawing of him.
If there were such drawing, by now ,it would be news in Eckankar because you would have snapped it, at least with your phone camera, and posted it, either here or sent to Eckankar headquarters in America. You just added salt and pepper to your father's experience to make it palatable. A lot of eckist do that all the time when they share their encounters of meeting with the so called Eck masters. I know that very well from my time there.

Note again my old man will never meet or become an Eckist. Why urging me to go tell him of Eckankar na? So your theory will become fact by fire by force? . Eckankar evangelises not.

Eckankar evangelises not,? Really ?
Then, what's this thread all about if not evangelising?

You have created several threads to talk about Eckankar ,yet you say Eckankar doesn't evangelises.

You're in denial and acting deceptively too.

Eckankar evangelises, and it's called ,VAHANA. .Other eckist do that here to share Eckankar with the public.

You can only deceive yourself with your lies not me.

And how does my theory becomes 'fact by fire' if you tell your father about Eckankar?

Telling him that the person he drew is the spiritual head of Eckankar is not evangelising if you don't announce yourself as an eckist, or try to convince him to join Eckankar while doing so

You surely can do that ,but haven't done so because I suspect there's no perfect picture of Harold he drew anywhere. You only added curry and tyme to your father's experience to make it appetizing. That's all.



You have been an eckist for long. You excitedly share Eckankar with others here and maybe offline, but not with your father who has a drawing of the spiritual leader of Eckankar.
Is Eckankar a secret cult and because of that, you don't want to let him know you're part of the group?

You're not making sense.

And how would you know ( if that has not happened already) if in the future your father, would not get to hear about Eckankar or meet with an eckist?
Is he incapacitated or imprisoned somewhere?

Even some illiterates living in the villages, without access to the internet already know about Eckankar.

Continue lying to yourself.

3: You keep hammering on Secular sources, perhaps you can tune into CNN's BBC evening program lol. Why:

I mean it's basic! Where else to study or get information about say Zoroastrianism if not in circles of interest on that particular subject?

If something is true, it must be known to be true everywhere, and not only in Eckankar.

When a truth claim is made by a single scientist or a group of scientists working together, it's always possible to confirm it from other scientists elsewhere to be sure it's actually true.

You said Eckankar is science.

And, Eckankar, according to you knows some 'scientific' truth, but this truth cannot be corraborate from elsewhere. If we try to confirm from another person then, we will no longer know the truth or be misled.

Like an adult trying to mislead a child that something is true,

'Don't tell anyone o! or ask anybody. If you do you will die or they will deceive you.'
'Im the only person who knows the truth. Listen to me alone' Lol.


You have been feeding me with unverified history according to Eckankar, and you want me to swallow it like a religious sheepie without asking questions .

Let's take the Man Peter of the Bible. Do you know where he was born? How old he was? Now, that we do not have sufficient information on Peter, do we now begin to declare that Peter was lie?

You have now ran to the Bible as if what was recorded in the New testament were true history. You're showing desperation here.


Shamus, Rumi and Lai tso, which Paul changed to Lai tsi ,to deceive the public, were never Eckankar masters. Their history is well known and can be verified by anyone to be sure if they were Eck masters in the past, but not so for a Peter in the Bible. The New testament is not an historical document.

So , don't compare those two.

I posted recently the village where Rebazar grew. It's is a an existing geographical location still existent. I will take you serious as not just a tantrum thrower if you could take a trip. You're the one with a problem after all.

Every fictional story usually as it's physical setting which is a real place known to people. It doesn't make the story true. I don't need to travel to Tibet to confirm Eckankar fictional tale. It's foolish to do so

It's like asking me to travel to the Eastern part of Nigeria to confirm if Okonkwo in, Things Fall Apart ,by chinua Achebe, actually existed and once lived there, just because those parts where mentioned in the story.

You're the one who made the claim. So travel there and bring proof that Rebazar Tarz is from Tibet. While there ,make sure you find out who gave birth to him so we can determine is family lineage to confirm if there's such a person
Safe journey whenever you intend to make the trip.

4: The stories Harold shares are experiences of everyday people sent him. I am not sure how he "manufactures" all of that.

I will keep my comments on those to myself. I believe one day you will know the truth. Some eckist know the truth, but choose to remain in Eckankar. It's their choice. The religion is not without its good.

And where did I use the word ,manufacture,. You have come again. The stories were compiled.. I never said manufacture.

Take mine for example. If you had read that or that of my father's (assuming he joins Eckankar), we will still have same result. Is it not you again? I am sure you can't wait for me to go 'convert' my father to Eckankar just so your contrivances will come to pass

You're going round in circles here. I already explained severally how people can have those experiences. So, what are you still talking about?

All the stories you have shared so far involved only single persons sighting the Eck masters. We are yet to see where more than two persons met the Eck masters at the same time. If there's any such story, it still can be explained. But there's none yet.

It's not my business if you convert your father. It doesn't benefit me in any way. This is childish talk coming from you.

I never said everyone who dreams about Eckankar or Eckankar master must surely end up becoming an eckist. Where did I say so?
I said you can dream of something you haven't seen before, and get to see it later. It's your choice or decision if you would want to take further from there. No wonder you have misunderstood me. It's your fault you don't take your time to read me

5: Lol, you didn't say "they generated the thought forms" but you said "she picked up the thought forms". Lol. There is a subject known as 'Semantics' and 'Pragmatics'. Buhari was the one who generated the thoughts I guess.

Always misinterpreting my words.
I said they didn't 'deliberately' generate thoughtforms for her to see and not that they didn't generate thoughtforms. As long as one is alive thoughtforms are generate by the brain, consciously or unconsciously.

You ignore the, word, "deliberately", in my statement, or you don't know the meaning or that?

All these attempts to mislead people to make them believe I said something you assume I said, won't work.

Everyone generates and carries thoughtforms about because we are all thinking beings, and one's predominant thoughts can be picked by others who are sensitive enough.

It doesn't mean people deliberately generates thoughts for others to see.

You don't understand what I explained.

Even neuroscience is gradually confirming how one's thoughts can be seen through modern brain scanners. and you are here talking off point and misquoting me.

6: You know Eckankar for long, that you didn't know that Horses, Cartoons and cartoonish characters and ANY of your wildest imaginations exists as REAL characters in especially the astral speaks volumes of that your "knowledge".

And are we talking about the astra realm here?

See again, you want to confuse me as you usually do.
But you failed again woefully.

Cartoon characters are products of imagination which is only seen in comic books and movies.

It's you who don't fully understand Eckankar teachings on imagination.

Yes, we can't imagine anything that doesn't 'exist' However not everything that we imagine can be manifested in the physical realm the way we imagine it..
There are unshakable physical laws that determines or limits what can be made manifested in the physical plane . You can only suspend those laws temporarily in some instances, but cannot bypass them for long or forever, and that's why it's very laughable to hear Eckankar say a certain Rebazar Tarz is still living in a physical body for more than five hundred years now.

Story for religious sheepie who don't think to swallow.lol

.You assume you understand the teachings very well, when you don't.

You were even like "you don't know am" with due respect, I understand who you are to a fault as far as your romance with Eckankar is concerned!

I was surprised you didn't know that no one can imagine anything outside existence or creation and that imagination isn't really "imagination".

Here we go again with your lies.
Show my where I affirmed that no one can 'imagine anything outside of existence'?

I'm really disappointed that you're know sounding like some members of other religion here who would use anything to defend their religion. Eckankar according to you is science, then demonstrate it for me and stop all these irrelevant talk.

If I don't know much about driving a car or cooking, does it then mean I wouldn't know if somebody is a good driver, or a can cook a delicious meal by eating what they cook ?

You can continue to attack my personality if you think that would proof Eck masters are real or that Pythagoras was an Eck master.

You presented imagination as if it was the "imagination" of the mainstream. From there, I knew you merely window-shopped Eckankar with nothing much made of the spiritual stuff.

People like that often leave disappointed, and I am sorry.

Where again did I present imagination as 'mainstream imagination'?
I just proved that it's you and not me who doesn't fully understand Eckankar teachings on imagination.

I swear you really disappointed me. You're now trolling, something you are not known for, here on this board.

You have no information about my time or association with Eckankar in the past.
I never left in disappointment. I left after knowing the real truth about certain things I was misled to believe, but still very much grateful for the experience and what I learnt.
Eckankar is like a preparatory school and nothing more.
Most of the things they teach you were copied by Paul Twitchell from other places where they are properly taught

I have refrained from saying certain things in order not to set confusion in your mind because you already appear rattled, and now struggling to express yourself clearly . Very much unlike the chieveboy of before.

I still have friends in Eckankar who know the truth but still remain there for their own personal reasons.

Just rest. You can't defend Eckankar. No one can do so successfully without embarrassing themselves Just pick the good from Eckankar and enjoy yourself. That's the only way to go about it.

It's enough.
I won't reply again, unless it's necessary for me to do so.

Thank you.

triplechoice:


You lie. You never severally mentioned you met with Gopal Das on this thread At first you only claimed you saw an Eck master in a dream . It was only recently, after much back and forth, you revealed the identity of the person as Gopal Das. The thread as not gone far. Anyone following can go through our conversation to confirm for themselves. It's clear you have been lying to me to prove your points.

I don't know...I can only be sorry for having an experience with Gopal Das way before I knew how to read and write.

This is the beauty of personal experience: NO ONE can take away your experience!

I wish someone without 'vested interest ' would understand that the attached image is of someone speaking of someone they know and recognize their name even if they didn't mention it.

Besides, I did told you "I mentioned his name earlier". This would be about the third time I was mentioning their name and the experience here on Nairaland.

Not to impose Gopal Das and the "phantoms" as you call them directly here or via your alternate Moniker I always ignore, keep your convictions while I keep my experience.

Can we agree on this?

triplechoice:




So, why do you now expect me to believe completely your claim that your father met Harold in a dream , and has a perfect drawing of him.
If there were such drawing, by now ,it would be news in Eckankar because you would have snapped it, at least with your phone camera, and posted it, either here or sent to Eckankar headquarters in America. You just added salt and pepper to your father's experience to make it palatable. A lot of eckist do that all the time when they share their encounters of meeting with the so called Eck masters. I know that very well from my time there.

This really isn't an effort to convince a triplechoice is it? How would you have know if this hasn't been done?

So now it indeed sounded convincing finally right and it's "salt and pepper"?

I repeat, the man drew Harold, kept that in his diary. I repeat again, he and Harold may most probably never ever meet physically.

I also repeat, the man will never ever join Eckankar in this life time. He does his thing .

"Harold does not exist", "my old man's meeting with Harold was likely inspired by very imaginative mind of a youth". I give you all of this for free. You are very very right, the Eck masters are figments of imaginations and you understand what imaginations really are.

triplechoice:


It's enough.
I won't reply again, unless it's necessary for me to do so.

Thank you.

I would have been tired, but I'm more of bored than tired...

yo, you can login triplechoice now.

So we will be continuing with this thread letting everyone know they are never alone. More stories coming soon

"Eck Masters have quietly existed in society as agriculturists, astronomers, jewellers, painters, business people and even sheepherders. They keep often adopt low-key profiles. In communities where they live, rub shoulders with ordinary people as well as leaders of society whose spiritual needs they attend to.

It all depends on the mission of the ECK Master."

-Those Wonderful Eck Masters
Harold Klemp

Mystery Messenger

"The ECK Masters may at times blend events on the Time Track for the benefit of an individual....

Kay Lee told her story:

Way back when she was in high school, she heard mention of Paul Twitchell's book The Tiger's Fang. She'd been sitting in the back of the room during a literature class on Dante's The Divine Comedy. .

The discussion was on the first part which tells of his journey through the regions of hell. Kay Lee was thinking , who would want to go through the lowers worlds? If I were to make such a journey, I'd rather travel in the higher planes..

At that moment, a voice spoke from accross the room. "There is a book about the higher worlds" it said. "its called The Tiger's Fang".

Con'td.