budaatum:
Maynmann, write to the supermods asking them to unban you from spambot. It's very annoying, but they usually do.

https://www.nairaland.com/mailsupermods

Thanks, I just did.

budaatum:


Indeed it is about the definition of "nothing". (And I hope you are also finding that a lot of argument had here is about definitions, and individial understanding).

For me, "watery chaos" is something that has a watery substance that is in a state described as chaos, which is quite a lot of some things, if I were asked.

We can know the definition of these words by going to the origin of those words, nothing and chaos.

Nothing comes from No-Thing..
The term thing came from the Old English þing, meaning “entity”, “being”, “body”, or “matter”.

Chaos represents Nothing.
Even in greek mythology, chaos “created” everything.

Hesiod tells us that chaos is the origin of everything-the creation of the universe,

"Verily at the first Chaos came to be,
but next wide-bosomed Earth,
the ever-sure foundation of all."

Chaos proceeded to give birth to the first Greek gods, the primordial deities, Hesiod portrays chaos as preceding all other elements and entities in the universe.


“In the beginning, Elohim created the heavens and the earth.
Now the earth was formless and empty."

Formless and empty-this is the original meaning of the Greek word Chaos(khaos 'vast chasm, void) signifying a void or a state of nothingness.

In babylonian mythology, this deep is apsu, in Mesopotamia this deep is nammu, in egyptian it is Nun.

Maynmaynmayn:


To know the definition of these words by going to the origin of those words, nothing and chaos.

Nothing comes from No-Thing..
The term thing came from the Old English þing, meaning “entity”, “being”, “body”, or “matter”.

Chaos represents Nothing.
Even in greek mythology, chaos “created” everything.

Hesiod tells us that chaos is the origin of everything-the creation of the universe,

"Verily at the first Chaos came to be,
but next wide-bosomed Earth,
the ever-sure foundation of all."

Chaos proceeded to give birth to the first Greek gods, the primordial deities, Hesiod portrays chaos as preceding all other elements and entities in the universe.

“In the beginning, Elohim created the heavens and the earth.
Now the earth was formless and empty."

Formless and empty-this is the original meaning of the Greek word Chaos(khaos 'vast chasm, void) signifying a void or a state of nothingness.

In babylonian mythology, this deep is apsu, in Mesopotamia this deep is nammu, in egyptian it is Nun.

How old are you?

Workch:
How old are you?

Old enough.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nCGywFr_00

Maynmann:

Wow, a nobel prize winner.

And I think the idea of Nothing can been seen in potential energy; energy at rest.
Even though no action in it, energy is not empty in it, it has lot of potentials in it. The conversion of that energy that is resting leads to Kinectic energy(something).

Another thing i want to say is that if you look at an empty cup, some may say it contains atoms, matters or whatever, but if you remove those things, “no-thing” will still be left.
It seems Everything is within Nothing. Everything is coming/removing out of Nothing.

Not quite. No-thing cannot exist because there is always something even when there is no space-time.

LordReed:


Not quite. No-thing cannot exist because there is always something even when there is no space-time.

No-thing exist without been in existence.

That something is within Nothing.
Just like a blank canvas that represents Nothing, all drawings exist within that Nothingness.

Maynmaynmayn:


We can know the definition of these words by going to the origin of those words, nothing and chaos.

Nothing comes from No-Thing..
The term thing came from the Old English þing, meaning “entity”, “being”, “body”, or “matter”.

Chaos represents Nothing.
Even in greek mythology, chaos “created” everything.

Hesiod tells us that chaos is the origin of everything-the creation of the universe,

"Verily at the first Chaos came to be,
but next wide-bosomed Earth,
the ever-sure foundation of all."

Chaos proceeded to give birth to the first Greek gods, the primordial deities, Hesiod portrays chaos as preceding all other elements and entities in the universe.


“In the beginning, Elohim created the heavens and the earth.
Now the earth was formless and empty."

Formless and empty-this is the original meaning of the Greek word Chaos(khaos 'vast chasm, void) signifying a void or a state of nothingness.

In babylonian mythology, this deep is apsu, in Mesopotamia this deep is nammu, in egyptian it is Nun.

No-thing means no “entity” or “being” or "body” or “matter”. If there is thing called an "entity” or “being” or "body” or “matter", it is a-thing or some-thing, and not a no-thing.

Chaos is a state of thing, and is generally a disorganised state the thing is in. And if there is no-thing to be in chaos, there can not be said that the chaos thing exists.

Religion uses the word chaos in a sense they never define, but considering the earth and universe was not as organised and settled until it evolved into its current state, it can be said that the settled and organised state that we now perceive evolved from the chaotic state it hitherto had been. That is not to say the chaotic state created. No it didn't. State just calmed down from chaos to settled.

budaatum:



No-thing means no “entity” or “being” or "body” or “matter”. If there is thing called an "entity” or “being” or "body” or “matter", it is a-thing or some-thing, and not a no-thing.

Chaos is a state of thing, and is generally a disorganised state the the thing is in. And if there is no-thing to be in chaos, there can not be said that the chaos thing exists.

Religion uses the word chaos in a sense they never define, but considering the earth and universe was not as organised and settled until it evolved into its current state, it can be said that the settled and organised state that we now perceive evolved from the chaotic state it hitherto had been. That is not to say the chaotic state created. No it didn't. State just calmed down from chaos to settled.

Yes exactly, nothing is not a being,body or entity.

The definition of chaos has nothing to do with disorganization. It means formless and empty.
Chaos is nothing it self, chaos a greek word means void.

The Merriam Dictionary definition of Chaos states that it is a “state of utter confusion.” However, this definition is incorrect , We can largely attribute the current meaning of chaos to the Roman poet Ovid (43 BC — 17 AD).
In his work “Metamorphoses,” Ovid proclaimed that chaos was not a void, a chasm, or empty space as its original Greek meaning suggested. Instead, he described it as a disorganized mass.

Maynmaynmayn:

No-thing exist without been in existence.

That something is within Nothing.
Just like a blank canvas that represents Nothing, all drawings exist within that Nothingness.

I guess it depends on what you mean by nothing.

LordReed:


I guess it depends on what you mean by nothing.

The origin of the word that’s what i mean, I’m not adding any definitions.

Nothing— no— thing
Thing means a being, entity or matter..
Nothing means non-being, non entity, non-matter.

If you look at the origin of the word zero 0, it doesn’t connote what we know it as now.
6-6 was not 0 in ancient times.

Maynmaynmayn:

No-thing exist without been in existence.

That something is within Nothing.
Just like a blank canvas that represents Nothing, all drawings exist within that Nothingness.

But the blank canvas is not nothing! It is a canvas that is just blank. Remove the canvas, and you will have nothing on which to do your drawing on.

Come on, Mayn, you can very easily confirm this for yourself by attempting to draw on a no-canvass. If you type your response to me on the canvass which is whatever device you type your response on and post it on the canvass which is Nairaland, I will see it and read it and respond to it on my canvass and post it on the nairaland canvass accordingly for you to read. But if you do not type your response on the device which is the canvass on which you type it on, you would not likely be able to post it on the canvass that is Nairaland, and since I can not read the canvass that is your mind, I will not be able to read nor respond to it.

Maynmaynmayn:

The origin of the word that’s what i mean, I’m not adding any definitions.

Nothing— no— thing
Thing means a being, entity or matter..
Nothing means non-being, non entity, non-matter.

If you look at the origin of the word zero 0, it doesn’t connote what we know it as now.
6-6 was not 0 in ancient times.

Still what I am saying. An absolute absence cannot exist since there are always going to be those vacuum fluctuations. If you are calling the absence of space-time nothing then thats fine as long as you acknowledge those vacuum fluctuations.

budaatum:


But the blank canvas is not nothing! It is a canvas that is just blank. Remove the canvas, and you will have nothing on which to do you drawing on.

Come on, Mayn, you can very easily confirm this for yourself by attempting to draw on a no-canvass. If you type you response to me on the canvass which is whatever device you type your response on and post it on the canvass which is Nairaland, I will see it and read it and respond to it on my canvass and post it on the nairaland canvass accordingly for you to read. But if you do not type your response on the device which is the canvass on which you type it on, you would not likely be able to post it on the canvass that is Nairaland, and since I can not read the canvass that is your mind, I will not be able to read nor respond to it.

The blank canvas is blank and empty, it has nothing on it, the drawings will be within this blank and empty canvas. It was an analogy.

The drawing i am talking here is about creation, all drawing is within that blank and empty canvas.
It’s from this emptiness that creations emerge.

LordReed:


Still what I am saying. An absolute absence cannot exist since there are always going to be those vacuum fluctuations. If you are calling the absence of space-time nothing then thats fince as long as you acknowledge those vacuum fluctuations.

Those vacuum fluatuations are existing within Nothing, they need a space to come and go back from.

Maynmaynmayn:

The origin of the word that’s what i mean, I’m not adding any definitions.

Nothing— no— thing
Thing means a being, entity or matter..
Nothing means non-being, non entity, non-matter.

If you look at the origin of the word zero 0, it doesn’t connote what we know it as now.
6-6 was not 0 in ancient times.

6 minus 6 was always zero even before humans knew what 6 and minus and equal to and zero was, and saying otherwise is like claiming a tree did not make a sound as it fell because no one was in the forest to hear it fall

'Not knowing' does not mean the same as 'not exist', or theists would be able to say you do not know god exists because you do not know god, which I'm certain they've said already, to which I say bollocks!

One could be ignorant of a thing and therefore not know of the things existence. Gravity, for instance, existed and was doing its thing long before and despite humans being unaware of the existence of gravity.

budaatum:


6 minus 6 was always zero even before humans knew what 6 and minus and equal to and zero was, and saying otherwise is like claiming a tree did not make a sound as it fell because no one was in the forest to hear it fall

'Not knowing' does not mean the same as 'not exist', or theists would be able to say you do not know god exists because you do not know god, which I'm certain they've said already, to which I say bollocks!

One could be ignorant of a thing and therefore not know of the things existence. Gravity, for instance, existed and was doing its thing long before and despite humans being unaware of the existence of gravity.

Have you looked up the origin of word zero?

“The Hindus
The dot was a precursor to the zero we know today. Some theories suggest that, according to Hindu ideals, zero wasn’t a hole representing nothing; it was round because it signified the circle of life.”

https://www.sciencefriday.com/articles/the-origin-of-the-word-zero/

Maynmaynmayn:

The blank canvas is blank and empty, it has nothing on it, the drawings will be within this blank and empty canvas. It was an analogy.

The drawing i am talking here is about creation, all drawing is within that blank and empty canvas.
It’s from this emptiness that creations emerge.

Stop the religion a moment. Let's philosophise instead so we don't confuse the issue with religious gobbledegook.

A cup is empty like the blank canvass is empty. It has nothing in it, but when you pour water into the empty cup there will be something in the cup, but the cup itself is a thing or you wouldn't have anything to pour the water in to, same as you painted on the blank canvass that is a thing.

Painting on no-thing would be you painting in thin air.

budaatum:


Stop the religion a moment. Let's philosophise instead so we don't confuse the issue with religious gobbledegook.

A cup is empty like the blank canvass is empty. It has nothing in it, but when you pour water into the empty cup there will be something in the cup, but the cup itself is a thing or you wouldn't have anything to pour the water in to, same as you painted on the blank canvass that is a thing.

Painting on no-thing would be you painting in thin air.

I’m doing any religare.

The empty cup in this case represents nothingness, the emptiness in that cup is what I’m talking about, it represents potential, you can pour any drink you want inside it, if the cup was filled you won’t be able to pour any to it.

So as the black canvas, the blank and empty state represents potential, mind blowing arts can be drawn within this blank and empty state.

Maynmaynmayn:

Those vacuum fluatuations are existing within Nothing, they need a space to come and go back from.

No, even in the absence of space-time they are still present.

Maynmaynmayn:

Have you looked up the origin of word zero?

“The Hindus
The dot was a precursor to the zero we know today. Some theories suggest that, according to Hindu ideals, zero wasn’t a hole representing nothing; it was round because it signified the circle of life.”

https://www.sciencefriday.com/articles/the-origin-of-the-word-zero/

Please Mayn, by now you ought to know that I am not completely ignorant.

Zero was an idea that humans were not aware of until they got smart enough to understand and discover it as a concept. And long before it was understood, it was described as all sorts, and long after it became an understood concept was it taught to Europe as the idea and concept it was. But zero, as in no-thing, still existed as a concept despite human ignorance.

Even in ancient times and like today, if you had no-oxygen, as in zero-oxygen, you would not have been able to breath, and if you had no-food as in zero-food, you would have starved. But you could not have been on earth and at any time ever not had a thing called gravity, because it was not a thing you had to know that you had, but a thing that existed regardless of you knowing of it, just like the concept that became known as zero.

LordReed:


No, even in the absence of space-time they are still present.

I said space not spacetime.
Even space is within Nothing.

budaatum:


Please Mayn, by now you ought to know that I am not completely ignorant.

Zero was an idea that humans were not aware of until they got smart enough to understand and discover it as a concept. And long before it was understood, it was described as all sorts, and long after it became an understood concept was it taught to Europe as the idea and concept it was. But zero, as in no-thing, still existed as a concept despite human ignorance.

Even in ancient times and like today, if you had no-oxygen, as in zero-oxygen, you would not have been able to breath, and if you had no-food as in zero-food, you would have starved. But you could not have been on earth and at any time ever not had a thing called gravity, because it was not a thing you had to know that you had, but a thing that existed regardless of you knowing of it, just like the concept that became known as zero.

When you have no oxygen, food, you are talking about a thing, zero or nothing is not a thing.

Zero was used as a placeholder not a number.
https://www.livescience.com/27853-who-invented-zero.html

Maynmaynmayn:

I’m doing any religare.

The empty cup in this case represents nothingness, the emptiness in that cup is what I’m talking about, it represents potential, you can pour any drink you want inside it, if the cup was filled you won’t be able to pour any to it.

So as the black canvas, the blank and empty state represents potential, mind blowing arts can be drawn within this blank and empty state.

The empty cup, in any case, can not represent no-thing. You can not put an empty cup on a table and claim there is no-thing on the table unless you are doing religare (I assume you mean religion), and if you are, then buda is definitely not the person to be conversing with it or we'd both be claiming gods exist or something equally stupid!

An empty cup is a thing. It is a cup thing that is empty, as in, it has zero content-things in it.

budaatum:

The empty cup, in any case, can not represent no-thing. You can not put an empty cup on a table and claim there is no-thing on the table unless you are doing religare (I assume you mean religion), and if you are, then buda is definitely not the person to be conversing with it or we'd both be claiming gods exist or something equally stupid!

An empty cup is a thing. It is a cup thing that is empty, as in, it has zero content-things in it.

I’m talking about the emptiness inside the cup.
I’m talking about the emptiness of the canvas.
Within this emptiness, alot of potential is inside it, its-from there that creation emerges.

Maynmaynmayn:

When you have no oxygen, food, you are talking about a thing, zero or nothing is not a thing.

Zero was used as a placeholder not a number.
https://www.livescience.com/27853-who-invented-zero.html

When you have no oxygen, you have zero of the thing called oxygen. You could represent it with a thing called zero if you find a reason to, like if you were describing a cave that is under water and had no oxygen in it, hence no-oxygen, or zero oxygen, but you wouldn't claim you breathed that zero no-oxygen and lived. Or would you?

budaatum:


When you have no oxygen, you have zero of the thing called oxygen. You could represent it with a thing called zero if you find a reason to, like if you were describing a cave that is under water and had no oxygen in it, hence no-oxygen, or zero oxygen, but you wouldn't claim you breathed that zero no-oxygen and lived. Or would you?

I am talking about the concept of “zero”.

Maynmaynmayn:

I’m talking about the emptiness inside the cup.
I’m talking about the emptiness of the canvas.
Within this emptiness, alot of potential is inside it, its-from there that creation emerges.

I know what you are talking about Mayn. I am disagreeing with you!

The only reason an empty cup thing has potential is because the empty cup itself is a thing with shape and form. Remove the thing called empty cup and you'd have no-thing to hold the potential of the water you could not pour inside it.

This subject is philosophy 101. First class they ask you how you know the thing in front of you is a thing that exists. I was in a pub one day drinking when some girl asked how I knew the thing called table that my thing called pint of drink was on was a thing that existed. I took her thing called hand and raised it up and brought it down fast to bang on the thing called table, but she amazingly snatched her thing called hand away because she very well knew the thing called table that my thing called pint of drink was on existed, or she would have found out the table was a thing that existed when I smashed her thing called hand on it.

budaatum:


I know what you are talking about Mayn. I am disagreeing with you!

The only reason an empty cup thing has potential is because the empty cup itself is a thing with shape and form. Remove the thing called empty cup and you'd have no-thing to hold the potential of the water you could not pour inside it.

This subject is philosophy 101. First class they ask you how you know the thing in front of you is a thing that exists. I was in a pub one day drinking when some girl asked how I knew the thing called table that my thing called pint of drink was on was a thing that existed. I took her thing called hand and raised it up and brought it down fast to bang on the thing called table, but she amazingly snatched her thing called hand away because she very well knew the thing called table that my thing called pint of drink was on existed, or she would have found out the table was a thing that existed when I smashed her thing called hand on it.

this cup with shapes and form emerges from nothing. It’s a vessel created within Nothing.
Plato talk about form and matter.

You are taking my analogy as real life example. I’m using it as a creation example.
Without this emptiness there can be no cup.
All creation emerges from this nothingness with limitless potential.

I’m not even talking about philosophy 101, this Nothingness is everywhere.

Maynmaynmayn:

I am talking about the concept of “zero”.

And you are for some reason refusing to hear me talking about the concept called no-thing, which can be represented by the concept called zero.

If you place an empty cup on a table, you would not say there is zero of a thing called empty cup on the table. But if you remove the empty cup from the table, you would be correct to say that there are zero of the thing called empty cup on the table.

You can not paint on a thing called zero or no-canvass. You need the thing called canvass to be greater than zero for you to be able to paint on a thing called canvass.

budaatum:


And you are for some reason refusing to hear me talking about the concept called no-thing, which can be represented by the concept called zero.

If you place an empty cup on a table, you would not say there is zero of a thing called empty cup on the table. But if you remove the empty cup from the table, you would be correct to say that there are zero of the thing called empty cup on the table.

You can not paint on a thing called zero or no-canvass. You need the thing called canvass to be greater than zero for you to be able to paint on a thing called canvass.

I’m talking about the emptiness inside the cup, a cup is empty because it contains Nothing. Water fills this Nothing inside the cup.


the concept of zero first appeared in India around A.D. 458. Joseph suggests that the Sanskrit word for zero, śūnya, which meant "void" or "empty" and derived from the word for growth.

Maynmaynmayn:

this cup with shapes and form emerges from nothing. It’s a vessel created within Nothing.
Plato talk about form and matter.

You are taking my analogy as real life example. I’m using it as a creation example.
Without this emptiness there can be no cup.
All creation emerges from this nothingness with limitless potential.

I’m not even talking about philosophy 101, this Nothingness is everywhere.

Sorry, but I do not do the sort of creation you are talking about. I am an atheist, and not a creationist! And if you are not talking philosophy, which simply means the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, then you might as well be talking imaginary gods and angels and heaven and hell, which are not real and do not exist except in the minds of those in whom they are created by themselves or their pastor or their imam, in which case you are making stuff up like some theist!

As for your "Nothingness is everywhere", that's not true, since some-thing is usually everywhere unless no-thing is there.

If we put a thing called empty cup on a thing called table in a place called room, a thing called zero cup is not on the thing called table in the place called room. And even the room is not empty since the thing called table is inside the place called room.

Even if you take the thing called empty cup and the thing called table out of the place called room, you would still find that a thing called air is still in the room unless we suck the thing called air out of the place called room.

budaatum:


Sorry, but I do not do the sort of creation you are talking about. I am an atheist, and not a creationist! And if you are not talking philosophy, which simply means the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, then you might as well be talking imaginary gods and angels and heaven and hell, which are not real and do not exist except in the minds of those in whom they are created by themselves or their pastor or their imam, in which case you are making stuff up like some theist!

As for your "Nothingness is everywhere", that's not true, since some-thing is usually everywhere unless no-thing is there.

If we put a thing called empty cup on a thing called table in a place called room, a thing called zero cup is not on the thing called table in the place called room. And even the room is not empty since the thing called table is inside the place called room.

Even if you take the thing called empty cup and the thing called table out of the place called room, you would still find that a thing called air is still in the room unless we suck the thing called air out of the place called room.

A thing means matter, entity or body.
Everything is within Nothing.
I think the definition of Nothing is the problem, when I separate No from thing.
I’m talking about nothing as absence of matter, body and entity, All things emerges from this Nothing.
Just as all drawings emerges within the canvas.
The blank and empty canvas has no beginning, but the drawings on the canvas has a beginning.


Yes suck everything away from the room if you can, you will be left with nothing, the nothing is there you only extracting something within it, air, atoms, entities, bodies, everything is within Nothing.