Maynmaynmayn:

Being here consist of matter.
Just like the blank canvas, all drawings are within this canvas.
Everything is within Nothingness.
It is from nothing that everything emerges.

Non-being does not mean no-thing.

If "all drawings are within this canvas", "this canvass" can not be blank and can not be within nothing because "all drawing are within the canvas" which is a thing! You will not after all draw on the canvass and insist the canvass is blank, or would you?

If we are all conversing with each other on Nairaland, we can not also, at the same time, not be on Nairaland conversing!

A thing can not be at motion and also at rest. Your car can not be moving along the expressway and also be parked in you garage.

budaatum:


Non-being does not mean no-thing.

If "all drawings are within this canvas", "this canvass" can not be blank and can not be within nothing because "all drawing are within the canvas" which is a thing! You will not after all draw on the canvass and insist the canvass is blank, or would you?

If we are all conversing with each other on Nairaland, we can not also, at the same time, not be on Nairaland conversing!

That’s what no-thing means.
The term thing came from the Old English þing, meaning “entity”, “being”, “body”, or “matter”.
So non being means no-thing.


All the drawings emerges from this blank and empty canvas.

budaatum:



A thing can not be at motion and also at rest. Your car can not be moving along the expressway and also be parked in you garage.

When a candle burns, the flame exhibits visible movement due to the flow of hot gases and the combustion process. The flame flickers and dances, indicating motion and turbulence within the flame.

However, if we focus on a specific region within the flame, such as the tip of the wick where the combustion is most active, it may appear relatively stable and at rest. This is because the combustion is sustained in that particular area, and the flame appears to have a consistent shape and position.

Maynmaynmayn:

That’s what no-thing means.
Thing means The term thing came from the Old English þing, meaning “entity”, “being”, “body”, or “matter”.
So non being means no-thing.


All the drawings emerges from this blank and empty canvas.

You must have a different dictionary to my own, and words must mean the opposite to what words mean to me, because nothing does not mean non-being anywhere I have come across it.

And All the drawings did not "emerges from this blank and empty canvas". You, the drawer of the drawings, drew the drawings on the canvass! Or some god must have miraculously put the drawings on the blank canvass. You choose.

budaatum:


You must have a different dictionary to my own, and words must mean the opposite to what words mean to me, because nothing does not mean non-being anywhere I have come across it.

And All the drawings did not "emerges from this blank and empty canvas". You, the drawer of the drawings, drew the drawings on the canvass! Or some god must have miraculously put the drawings on the blank canvass. You choose.

The origin of the word “thing” means that. Our definition in dictionary is sometimes screwed and have lost their original meaning.

But the drawings are on the canvas which was blank and empty before the drawer started drawing on it, it is an analogy.
Because the canvas is blank and empty is signifies potential and willingness for that potential to be actualized.

Nothing here signifies Potential energy, when this potential energy is used it turns to kinetic energy.
Potential energy means energy at rest, even though no action there is lot of potential/energy in it.

The Hebrew bible is about Ayin.
“For a long time, I have remained silent, keeping myself quiet and restrained. However, now, like a woman in labor, I cry out, gasping and panting (Isaiah 42:14).”

Maynmaynmayn:

When a candle burns, the flame exhibits visible movement due to the flow of hot gases and the combustion process. The flame flickers and dances, indicating motion and turbulence within the flame.

However, if we focus on a specific region within the flame, such as the tip of the wick where the combustion is most active, it may appear relatively stable and at rest. This is because the combustion is sustained in that particular area, and the flame appears to have a consistent shape and position.

Why focus on a region and not the whole? Is that not the same as focusing on "Generation ex nihilo" while ignoring the "no", and don't you think you'd misunderstand what you read if you did that?

Still, candle. When it is said that "A thing needs Non-Being in order to change", what is meant is that a thing must stop being what it is in order to change into something else, just as the burning candle must become the non-being of a candle in order to produce "the flame and the visible movement due to the flow of hot gases and the combustion process and the flicker and the dances and the light".

And after you have extracted the flame and the hot gases and the flicker that dances and the light from the burning candle, you will eventually have no candle left.

Basically the burning of the candle will make the candle become a non-candle because it has changed into the flame and hot gases and the flicker that dances and the light. As a candle it is hence not-being a candle anymore, and in order to have a being of a candle you'd need to go buy a new candle.

You don't fill a car tank with petrol and drive till the tank is empty and expect to find a full tank of petrol because the petrol has become non-being of the type called petrol and changed into the being of the distance you covered driving the car with the petrol in the tank, which is not no-thing.

Maynmaynmayn:

The origin of the word “thing” means that. Our definition in dictionary is sometimes screwed and have lost their original meaning.

But the drawings are on the canvas which was blank and empty before the drawer started drawing on it, it is an analogy.
Because the canvas is blank and empty is signifies potential and willingness for that potential to be actualized.

Nothing here signifies Potential energy, when this potential energy is used it turns to kinetic energy.
Potential energy means energy at rest, even though no action there is lot of potential/energy in it.

The Hebrew bible is about Ayin.
“For a long time, I have remained silent, keeping myself quiet and restrained. However, now, like a woman in labor, I cry out, gasping and panting (Isaiah 42:14).”

You bloody theist, is all I can say about this. In good humour, of course.

Does the blank canvass have the potential to draw on itself, I wonder.

budaatum:


Why focus on a region and not the whole? Is that not the same as focusing on "Generation ex nihilo" while ignoring the "no", and don't you think you'd misunderstand what you read if you did that?

Still, candle. When it is said that "A thing needs Non-Being in order to change", what is meant is that a thing must stop being what it is in order to change into something else, just as the burning candle must become the non-being of a candle in order to produce "the flame and the visible movement due to the flow of hot gases and the combustion process and the flicker and the dances and the light".

And after you have extracted the flame and the hot gases and the flicker that dances and the light from the burning candle, you will eventually have no candle left.

Basically the burning of the candle will make the candle become a non-candle because it has changed into the flame and hot gases and the flicker that dances and the light. As a candle it is hence not-being a candle anymore, and in order to have a being of a candle you'd need to go buy a new candle.

You don't fill a car tank with petrol and drive till the tank is empty and expect to find a full tank of petrol because the petrol has become non-being of the type called petrol and changed into the being of the distance you covered driving the car with the petrol in the tank, which is not no-thing.

The wjole quotes has “no” in it.


"Ex nihilo nihil fit" is a Latin phrase that translates to "out of nothing, nothing comes." It is a principle often attributed to Parmenides, an ancient Greek philosopher. The principle suggests that something cannot originate or arise from absolute nothingness.

In the context of philosophical and metaphysical discussions, "ex nihilo nihil fit" serves as a foundational principle. It asserts that there must be some kind of preexisting material or cause for something to come into existence or for change to occur. It rejects the notion of spontaneous or uncaused creation.

The principle aligns with the common understanding in various domains, including physics and everyday experience, that things have causes or origins. For example, in the realm of physics, the principle is reflected in the conservation laws, such as the law of energy conservation or the law of mass conservation. These laws suggest that energy and mass cannot be created or destroyed; they can only be transformed or transferred from one form to another.

Furthermore, "ex nihilo nihil fit" finds support in the scientific understanding of the origins of the universe. The prevailing Big Bang theory posits that the universe emerged from a singularity—an extremely dense and hot state—but does not explain the ultimate cause or origin of that singularity. Scientists continue to explore the origins of the singularity and the nature of existence itself.

In summary, "ex nihilo nihil fit" expresses the idea that there must be some existing foundation, material, or cause for something to come into being or for change to occur. It is a philosophical principle that aligns with our observations and scientific understanding of the world.

Aristotle is saying the same thing.
“how substances come into existence even though, as he maintains, there is no generation ex nihilo, that is that nothing comes from nothing.“

budaatum:


You bloody theist, is all I can say about this. In good humour, of course.

Does the blank canvass have the potential to draw on itself, I wonder.

This nothing does not have the same definition of “god”, it does not need to be omnipresent or omniscience.
The analogy of creator and creation of Nothing can be related to Lake and Streams, even though they are distinct parts, they contain the same essential properties, the Lake is source of the streams, from it streams flow out.

Maynmaynmayn:

The vacuum fluctuations are appearing and going back to nothing, they arise from nothing and will go back to nothing. That’s why I brought up the concept of zero.
Our idea of zero comes from india which has further origin.

Those vacuum fluctuations are the potentials within nothingness.

Listen to Krauss here, start from 7:30:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46sKeycH3bE

LordReed:


Listen to Krauss here, start from 7:30:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46sKeycH3bE

What krauss is saying is only a tip of the iceberg.
No space
No time
No particles
No radiations.
No entities.
No matter
No-Thing.

Maynmaynmayn:

What krauss is saying is only a tip of the iceberg.
No space
No time
No particles
No radiations.
No entities.
No matter
No-Thing.

That's not what he said though.

LordReed:


That's not what he said though.

That’s what he said in 10:36.
Lordreed I respect you here, i want us to have a discuss not an argument.

All mythologies point to this “No-thing”, even Science has pointed to it.

Maynmaynmayn:


That’s what he said in 10:36.
Lordreed I respect you here, i want us to have a discuss not an argument.

All mythologies point to this “No-thing”, even Science has pointed to it.

Listen to him from the 8:00 mark. He says "...empty space is a bubbling, boiling, brew of virtual particles...".

LordReed:


Listen to him from the 8:00 mark. He says "...empty space is a bubbling, boiling, brew of virtual particles...".

Yes, i never said otherwise. He defined Nothing as.
No time
No particles
No radiations.
No entities.
No matter
Space is within Nothing, it is from this Nothing that space emerges.

Maynmaynmayn:

Yes, i never said otherwise. He defined Nothing as.
No time
No particles
No radiations.
No entities.
No matter
Space is within Nothing, it is from this Nothing that space emerges.

Nothing is something which also nothing. Got it.

LordReed:


Nothing is something which also nothing. Got it.

Nothing— No-thing, it doesn’t contain a thing, what is a thing.
The term thing came from the Old English þing, meaning “entity”, “being”, “body”, or “matter”.

Maynmaynmayn:

Nothing— No-thing, it doesn’t contain a thing, what is a thing.
The term thing came from the Old English þing, meaning “entity”, “being”, “body”, or “matter”.

But it is also a bubbling, boiling brew so it is something but also nothing.

LordReed:


But it is also a bubbling, boiling brew so it is something but also nothing.

Bubbling and boiling with particles in and out of existence.
It is not talking about “nothing”.
He defined nothing as
No time
No particles
No radiations.
No entities.
No matter

Maynmaynmayn:

Bubbling and boiling with particles in an empty space. It is not talking about “nothing”.
He defined nothing as
No time
No particles
No radiations.
No entities.
No matter

Listen again at the 8:00 mark, he says we find nothing is complicated because it is a bubbling, boiling brew of virtual particles so an absolute void does not or cannot exist.

LordReed:


Listen again at the 8:00 mark, he says we find nothing is complicated because it is a bubbling, boiling brew of virtual particles so an absolute void does not or cannot exist.

He said “empty space” is bubbling, boiling brew of virtual particles.
He also said this particles are going in and out of existence, they are not real, they are emerging out of nothing into existence and going back to nothing.

Nothing exist without being in Existence.

Maynmaynmayn:

He said “empty space” is bubbling, boiling brew of virtual particles.
He also said this particles are going in and out of existence, they are not real, they are emerging out of nothing into existence and going back to nothing.

Nothing exist without being in Existence.

Have you listened to Sabine Hossenfelder's video that your meme is taken from?

LordReed:


Have you listened to Sabine Hossenfelder's video that your meme is taken from?

Yes i did.
I screenshoted the “meme” myself.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4UpvpHNGpM

“You can create the entire universe out of nothing, because nothing has no net energy associated with it”

Maynmaynmayn:

Yes i did.
I screenshoted the “meme” myself.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4UpvpHNGpM

“You can create the entire universe out of nothing, because nothing has no net energy associated with it”

What level of nothing did she say Krauss' nothing was on?

LordReed:


What level of nothing did she say Krauss' nothing was on?

I’m not talking about “Krauss Nothing”.
Krauss literally said Nothing has Nothing in it.

Didn’t you notice that they are taken all these things from within Nothing, Nothing still remains.

Maynmaynmayn:


I’m not talking about “Krauss Nothing”.
Krauss literally said Nothing has Nothing in it.

Didn’t you notice that they are taken all these things from within Nothing, Nothing still remains.

You said Krauss was describing a level 9 nothing but Sabine pointedly said he was decribing a level 5 nothing (which is obviously not an absolute absence) so who is wrong here?

LordReed:


You said Krauss was describing a level 9 nothing but Sabine pointedly said he was decribing a level 5 nothing (which is obviously not an absolute absence) so who is wrong here?

I don’t think i have mentioned “krauss nothing ” in my statements, talkless of saying he is describing level 9.
We haven’t even talked about levels of Nothing.

I told you that empty space is within Nothing.

Maynmaynmayn:

In summary, "ex nihilo nihil fit" expresses the idea that there must be some existing foundation, material, or cause for something to come into being or for change to occur. It is a philosophical principle that aligns with our observations and scientific understanding of the world.

Aristotle is saying the same thing.
“how substances come into existence even though, as he maintains, there is no generation ex nihilo, that is that nothing comes from nothing.“

The above, is what I've been explaining to you all along, that things do not come from nothing. You are unfortunately reading the last "nothing comes from nothing" like it were "x comes from x", instead of "no x can come from no x".

I said when we started with myths that Yahweh's creation did not come out of nothing.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". Means there was first a something called God who created a something called heavens and the earth. And, while some might claim this particular something called God came out of nothing, you at least know of a Yahweh of Shasu who preceded it.

Hence, "ex nihilo nihil fit", as in all things must come from something.

If things can come from nothing, things would appear out of thin air, and that is not what is observed and scientifically understood of the world.

budaatum:


The above, is what I've been explaining to you all along, that things do not come from nothing. You are unfortunately reading the last "nothing comes from nothing" like it were "x comes from x", instead of "no x can come from no x".

I said when we started with myths that Yahweh's creation did not come out of nothing.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". Means there was first a something called God who created a something called heavens and the earth. And, while some might claim this particular something called God came out of nothing, you at least know of a Yahweh of Shasu who preceded it.

Hence, "ex nihilo nihil fit", as in all things must come from something.

If things can come from nothing, things would appear out of thin air, and that is not what is observed and scientifically understood of the world.

But in the last line it didn’t say “ NO nothing comes from nothing.“ it simply said “nothing comes from nothing.“

He filled the heavens and earth from the formless and void deep. That formless void deep is the “Nothing”
The mythology is gotten from other sources.
Check chaos gods.


"ex nihilo nihil fit" also means nothing comes from nothing.

Maynmaynmayn:

But in the last line it didn’t say “ NO nothing comes from nothing.“ it simply said “nothing comes from nothing.“

Yeah, I understand your confusion. You don't understand that it means exactly "NO nothing comes from nothing" because you've for some reason decided to ignore the "no" in there is no generation ex nihilo which does exactly mean NO nothing comes from nothing", except that that is not how English is written.

There is no generation of things out of nothing because all things must generate out of a some thing that existed, is what is being said here.

Maynmaynmayn:

I don’t think i have mentioned “krauss nothing ” in my statements, talkless of saying he is describing level 9.
We haven’t even talked about levels of Nothing.

I told you that empty space is within Nothing.

You did:

Maynmaynmayn:

Bubbling and boiling with particles in and out of existence.
It is not talking about “nothing”.
He defined nothing as
No time
No particles
No radiations.
No entities.
No matter

And again:

Maynmaynmayn:

Yes, i never said otherwise. He defined Nothing as.
No time
No particles
No radiations.
No entities.
No matter
Space is within Nothing, it is from this Nothing that space emerges.

Plus you screen shot a description of a level 9 nothing from Sabine's video. So are you contradicting yourself or what was the point of putting a screenshot of level 9 nothing?

Very clearly Krauss' is not describing an absolute nothing and I am sure even Neil will not say it is an absolute nothing.

budaatum:


Yeah, I understand your confusion. You don't understand that it means exactly "NO nothing comes from nothing" because you've for some reason decided to ignore the "no" in there is no generation ex nihilo which does exactly mean NO nothing comes from nothing", except that that is not how English is written.

There is no generation of things out of nothing because all things must generate out of a some thing that existed, is what is being said here.

“there is no generation ex nihilo” is gotten from this latin phrase “ex nihilo nihil fit”, it means same thing.

“No nothing comes from nothing” means nothing can’t come from nothing, “ex nihilo nihil fit“ means nothing comes from nothing.