Ineresting thread I must say. The wonders on Internet Freedom.


Just take your time and hit out at a Frater of the Rosicrucian Order and in 3 days time, you may be gone! But the one whom you insult is not human but 100% Supernatural. So he doesnt behave like you do.

And yes, what name do you call God? God?
What do we call the Allah of the Muslims, God?

Every one refers to their Fountain of Worship as God, f**k the spelling or not. Then your post should be invalid by now.

But if you are hitting out at Christianity and their God because of your self disgust, then you are doomed. You are not balanced because God exists, if its the God of The Muslims,The Christians, or of the Hindus or the Buddhists?.

Or better reconstruct your fallacy by calling his Real Name-*If you even know* 

jerrymania,

Is your hitting out at that Rosucrutian akin to abusing or denigrating him? He may kill if that is tried?

really, this guy is an infidel, need not funk cos the bible clearly states that only the fool says in his heart, "
there is no God".

Hi Infidel, the topic you have started is not new, several of the issues have been trashed out before. I do however want to look at the issues from a different point of view, a psychological point. The existence of God is a very murky issue. Which religion in particular are you referring to? Whose perception of God? Even within the same religion different persons may think of God differently, a Catholic may think of God differently from a Redeemed Church member for instance.

This is all besides the point actually, I think more important is why is there the NEED to believe in God. Several parts of the world have large percentages of decent, respectful, "God fearing" people that are not religious in any form. This people are good while not necessarily believing in the existence of God in any way or form. In Nigeria there is a need to believe in God out of a lot of desperation and hardship. It's not a rational, intellectual belief and cannot be defended as such, which is what you are asking for. People have to believe in God to help them get through the day, to give hope that in spite of all the problems, there's happiness at the end of the day.

Thus when people reply your posts with comment like "i'll pray for you" or some random quote from the Bible, it's not because they are trying to put you down, they simply have no answers to your questions.

The topic is one that will mostly end up in circular arguments because most "believers" don't need or have logical proof. More important to them is the sobering, positive effect that belief in God has in their lifes. If my belief in God has stopped me from drinking, smoking, fornicating, given me hope, peace of mind and a good home who cares if the theories don't really stand up to intellectual scrutiny.

Hope you get my point, cheers.

cgift:

jerrymania,

Is your hitting out at that Rosucrutian akin to abusing or denigrating him? He may kill if that is tried?

jerrymania link=topic=79465.msg1588560#msg1588560 date=1192533297:

Yes and Yes.

Hmmm. . . you strong O! The Blood of Jesus cover you sha.

Eh!!!!! This is so surprising.

People really think like this! I always believe that all those things i read in books about knight templers, free masons, and them occultic scriptures are just literary fallacies. Or is it as a result of these same books that derailed your train of thoughts. May God lead you through the right path and bring you back from the way of those who have gone astray.

This is where we will all realize that if we believe in God, it is so because of God's guidance and not our power.

My my. . . .this thread had me rolling with laughter. . . .

Tudór:

My my. . . .this thread had me rolling with laughter. . . .

Who is this infidel guy? He had all of them quite up there, Even the militant davidylan was left looking like a sour baby up there . This was long before some of us even joined NL.What an interesting guy this infidel is.

Tudor. . . who is this infidel guy? I would have loved to spar with him?

Deep Sight:

Tudor. . . who is this infidel guy? I would have loved to spar with him?

About the oneness of infinity?

Well, from what i read above i verily suspect that the Oneness of Infinity may well be too advanced for him. It also seems to me that NL was at an early stage of development and there were not enough heavyweights around such as the Prizms and Mnwankwos and Pastor AIOs to address the issue soundly.

The fellow's argument is actually simplistic and childlike: he cannot see God, he says, and as such God does not exist.

I wonder if he has ever seen a thought.

Or an emotion.

Intangible things that indisputably exist.

I would have come at him from the angle of causation and the law of motion.

Deep Sight:

Well, from what i read above i verily suspect that the Oneness of Infinity may well be too advanced for him. It also seems to me that NL was at an early stage of development and there were not enough heavyweights around such as the Prizms and Mnwankwos and Pastor AIOs to address the issue soundly.

The fellow's argument is actually simplistic and childlike: he cannot see God, he says, and as such God does not exist.

I wonder if he has ever seen a thought.

Or an emotion.

Intangible things that indisputably exist.

I would have come at him from the angle of causation and the law of motion.

How many times will you be putting forward this lame and ridiculous arguments? You keep talking about this elusive and undefined god but you are yet to give a coherent definition of what it is. If they ask you what your oneness of infinity god is you give meaningless answers like he is all we see and all there is or the prime mover. I respect the Islamic/christian idea of a supreme being than your undefined and totally incoherent assembly of words to describe what doesn't even make sense.

^^^ Tony - sorry - not every mind can grasp it, i will not force it on you.

Finite minds which are schooled in being breast-fed typically prefer ready made ancient myths (as you admitted prefering) which like children listening to santa claus they can easily absorb.

The genuine mystic is not so easily satisfied.

Deep Sight:

^^^ Tony - sorry - not every mind can grasp it, i will not force it on you.

Finite minds which are schooled in being bosom-fed typically prefer ready made ancient myths (as you admitted prefering) which like children listening to santa claus they can easily absorb.

The genuine mystic is not so easily satisfied.

You see where the problem lies? You are self projecting yourself as god because your god can not be found any where, What really is your god? Does he have a personality like that of the Jews? Is your god what we call nature? If by god you mean nature and all that encompasses it then I will agree with you, If by god you mean some elusive and invisible super human like that of the Jewish mythology then you are clearly deluded and no different from the Jewish worshipers of Yahweh.

Have i not made it clear that i have never espoused a big daddy sitting in the sky?

How else can i explain myself?

I have at different times defined God as -

   1. The Oneness of Infinity

   2. The Compound of all self-existent laws

   3. The primordial singularity of all existence

   4. The Universal Mind

How do any of the above appear to you as delusions?

How do they approximate to the jealous and vengeful Yahweh and his injunctions to stone people to death?

^^
They become delusions when you begin your usual banter of infusing stuffs like all intelligent, all powerful, a being with life etc

^^^ What is so deluded about extra-terrestial intelligence? ? ? ? ?

If you could have intelligence here on earth, why do you presume there cannot be intelligence elsewhere? ? ? ?

BIG FAT PRESUMPTION TUDOR.

@infidel i can see that you have your own reason for not blv in existence of GOD and that's because everything must have creator. Pls could you tell me in one sentence who created the earth that you are living in? I guess it is your grandfather. Moreso you wrote god in all your post should i blv u blv their is GOD or you are afraid of HIM.

Deep Sight:

^^^ What is so deluded about extra-terrestial intelligence? ? ? ? ?

If you could have intelligence here on earth, why do you presume there cannot be intelligence elsewhere? ? ? ?

BIG FAT PRESUMPTION TUDOR.

What is so deluded about God having a son who is also god?

If we can have sons on earth why cant extra-terrestials have sons?

BIG FAT PRESUMPTION DEEP SIGHT.

Tudór:

What is so deluded about God having a son who is also god?

If we can have sons on earth why cant extra-terrestials have sons?

BIG FAT PRESUMPTION DEEP SIGHT.

You have presumed that intelligence cannot exist within an entity that is the First Cause. Ridiculous presumption in the extreme.

In reference to your analogy, i simply reject the claims of a fellow human being to be that First Cause.

Aha! See your mis-jive now? ? ?

Deep Sight:

You have presumed that intelligence cannot exist within an entity that is the First Cause. Ridiculous presumption in the extreme.

In reference to your analogy, i simply reject the claims of a fellow human being to be that First Cause.

Aha! See your mis-jive now? ? ?

You reject this based on a presumption God cannot become man and walk this earth?

Ridiculous!

I have presumed no such thing.

I have merely presumed that YOU, Tudor, are not the First Cause.

Capisce?

@OP
No man can see God. Christians believe when you die, you will meet God and discuss with him face-to-face but they are WRONG. So if u believe there is no God 'cos u can't see him, then u are in problem. God is in a place far above paradise.
O.k, O.k, let me say it in a way that u can easily comprehend. If an artist draws a house and its surroundings, can he live in that artwork? So thats the same with our Lord, thats why he is called the Creator. He does not live in paradise because paradise is part of creation. He created the whole universe(in fact the whole creation is his handiwork) and put his laws in them.
So my friend, your only work on earth is to live according to those laws and u will make your way back to paradise. You are not here to have money or have kids, since u are still going to leave them one day.
Doing anything in contrast with God's laws is a SIN itself not to talk of saying there is no God. You are committing a GREAT SIN but u don't know that now 'cos u feel u are just expressing urself.
You don't have to see God before u know He exists, let His Laws guide u.
If u want to know more on the Truth of Life, read the Grail Message.
I wish u strength.

No one created God he has always been and I have never seen a million USD but that does not meant that it don't exsist.

@poster, God av mercy on your soul.

@ infidel
Nice post. U just Nicked it.
After readin dis thread. I discovered dat these religious folks are not actualy as Retarded as they make themself out 2 b, its just plain delusion bourne out of fear of burnin in an imaginary Hell.

In their delusion they dont know dat if der God can just Appear from anything, by d same logic, human beings too should b able 2 appear from anywhere.
I have watched them use diffrent ludicrous analogy 2 defend this "god" how can 1 begin 2 defend wat cannot even b defined.

Wit al d omini dis & dat attributes they credited 2 dis "god" the god is plain incompentent & has a warped sense of "love" dat even d most tormented human would find disgustin.

I assure u dat none of d deluded folk wil come up wit a reasonable arguement 2 prove d existance of dis god.
All they wud resort 2 is insult, childish banters & statements like "i pity u" " i wil pray for u"
prayer? Put dat 2 a test.
All their fundamental characteristics is al based on delusion.
By d way Santa claus creatd d world & inspired u 2 put dis thread on nairaland.
Kip it up man!

@Tudor: LOL na you resurrect this thread o, e don dey rest in peace before

@ Deepsight

Deep Sight:

I have presumed no such thing.

I have merely presumed that YOU, Tudor, are not the First Cause.

Capisce?

The above suggests that you are not opposed to the idea that God or a part of God can incarnate in a physical body and live on earth like men. Then what exactly is your problem with the idea that Jesus is the incarnate of a part of God?

Deep Sight:

Have i not made it clear that i have never espoused a big daddy sitting in the sky?

How else can i explain myself?

I have at different times defined God as -

  1. The Oneness of Infinity

  2. The Compound of all self-existent laws

  3. The primordial singularity of all existence

  4. The Universal Mind

How do any of the above appear to you as delusions?

How do they approximate to the jealous and vengeful Yahweh and his injunctions to stone people to death?

Honestly, Deepsight, its very difficult to capture your belief; one cannot safely call you a deist. Deism implies that a supreme being created the universe. You see why I will not label you a deist; you don't believe that the supreme mover or creator is a being, rather you chose to call the supreme "Oneness of Infinity, Compound of all self-existent laws, Universal Mind, and etc." I think the only think I can labell your belief is Agnostic theism.

Deepsight, with all due respect, your definition of God is very ambiguous. I am not sure I understand what you mean, so let me go through your definition and explain the problems I have with them.

Deep Sight:

  1. The Oneness of Infinity

What exactly do you mean by "oneness of infinity." If by "oneness" you mean the connection between all that exist. Thus the connection of everything in creation; the connection between plants, animals, humans, physical, spiritual, the infinite giving and taking, the balance between all that exists, etc. In a nut shell: The infinite oneness of creation. If this is what you mean, then my perception is that this "oneness" is not God.
Indeed all creation, all that exists, is one. Only one power permeates and animates all. Indeed the whole creation is one in it functioning, an infinite reciprocality(giving and taking), or symbiotic relationship between all that exist.
But this "Oneness" is not God. God stands above the "Oneness", and God's energy animates or fuels creation which is the "oneness". In a nut shell: everything in existence finds its origin in the radiation or energy of God. In this energy or radiation of God lies the "Oneness." But this "oneness" is not God Himself who is a being and not just an energy.

Deep Sight:

  2. The Compound of all self-existent laws

The self-existent laws, or the laws of creation are not God either. What we humans perceive as laws are nothing but the effects of God's radiation in different planes of creation. I will give an example: God's radiations is the source of all "oneness"; thus God's radiation is magnetic and holds everything withing it as one. As this radiation travels away from God, this magnetic effect of it slackens and out of this radiation things, beings, worlds, and etc separate themselves and comes into existence. The stronger and purer ones separate first from this radiation and being closer to the source; while the weaker, denser or heavier ones separate at a grater distance from the source. Similar to the separation of the components of the petroleum. We observe this and call it the law of spiritual gravity--the lighter worlds exists in higher planes closer to God, while the denser ones sink lower. This is an eternal law that operates in all parts of creation, to us it is a law; but in actuality it is nothing but an effect of the radiation of God. So this laws is not God Himself, rather it is an effect of God's power.

Deep Sight:

  3. The primordial singularity of all existence

This is a paraphrase of (1)"The Oneness of Infinity" I have already dealt with this. But if by this you mean something else other that "the oneness of infinity", please let me know.

Deep Sight:

  4. The Universal Mind

If by the above you mean the subjective mind, the higher conciouseness; the mind that is universal, truth, infallible, and which people can tap on to if they evelove spiritually or by achieving higher consciousness. My perception is that what people usually refer to as the universal mind, the higher self is only an effect of the human spirit within them. Thus the intuitive perception. The intuitive perception is always in accord with the Truth, and it is infallible because it stems from our spirit. The spirit in us originates in Paradise, a plane far above matter or the physical plane. Our spirit being spiritual is not limited by the physical concept of time and space; so it knows that exact truth about anything spiritual and anything that lies below the spiritual. Our spirit having originated in a world closer to God, is more able to potray the characteristics of God than the physical is able to potray. By characteristics of God, I mean purity, love, justice, kindness, and etc. Within every humanbeing on earth lies the spirit covered with various cloaks, the last of which is the physical body. People who have learnt to listen to their intuition, discover the infallibility of the intuition, and overtime they perceive the connection of their spirit(the source of the intuition) to paradise, a plane which lies much higher and closer to God than the physical. It is the perception of this connection to the paradise, coupled with a faint perception of the purity and oneness that radiates from Paradise, that make people think that this paradise is God, or the universal mind. The erroneous conclusion that man is a part of God, and will one day return to God, stems from this sensing. The sensing of paradise is the highest a human spirit on earth can reach; sensing the purity, love and Justice, that radiates from Paradise and sensing that it is the highest perception that they can reach makes such humanbeings erroneously conclude that this Paradise is God. And sensing that the spirits within them is a part of this Paradise makes them conclude that they are parts of God. To some, it is the intuitive perception that they refer to as the universal mind. The intuition is always the same, irrespective of who percieves it, it is always in acord with the Truth.  I think this is why they call it universal, because the perception of the spirit is always the same and in accord with the Truth, and anybody with an alart spirit can asses it.
But Paradise, and the human spirit which originates from paradise, are only creations, or part of the creation of God. Thus a derivative of the radiation of God, and not God Himself.

God is a being, creation is His work. But like an artist who can only stand next to his work, but never merge with it or become part of it, God stands far above his work--creation.

@justcool.
Deep sight believes the first cause to be a being. . . .thats one of his many delusions.

Deep Sight:

I have presumed no such thing.

I have merely presumed that YOU, Tudor, are not the First Cause.

Capisce?

Did I claim to be the first cause?

Stay off the hard drugs my guy.

Tudór:

Did I claim to be the first cause?

Stay off the hard drugs my guy.

You didn't get it, did you? Ok, let's go kindergarten: a fellow man like YOU is claimed to be the first cause. . . need i go on. . . .?

Tudór:

@justcool.
Deep sight believes the first cause to be a being. . . .thats one of his many delusions.

You must be omniscient to be able to assert conclusively that the first cause is not an element that has attributes of a being!

O well, since you are that first cause yourself, i guess you should know!

justcool:
Honestly, Deepsight, its very difficult to capture your belief; one cannot safely call you a deist. Deism implies that a supreme being created the universe. You see why I will not label you a deist; you don't believe that the supreme mover or creator is a being, rather you chose to call the supreme "Oneness of Infinity, Compound of all self-existent laws, Universal Mind, and etc." I think the only think I can labell your belief is Agnostic theism.

Deepsight, with all due respect, your definition of God is very ambiguous.

My Dear Friend and Brother Justcool -

Actually i limit my definition intentionally: for the purpose of scientifically engaging the atheistic mind and showing such a mind that something which must be defined as God necessarily exists. However as Tudor has already pointed out, i have at many times also made clear that i believe God to be a being. I will take a few moments in a subsequent post to indicate the reasons for the definitions i gave above.

justcool:

@ Deepsight

The above suggests that you are not opposed to the idea that God or a part of God can incarnate in a physical body and live on earth like men. Then what exactly is your problem with the idea that Jesus is the incarnate of a part of God?

Well i must say that until very very recently my thinking was this: Even if God may incarnate as a man, why should i regard any particular truth-bringer as God himself? I regard Christ as one of many truth bringers, and there is no reason to suppose that he is God himself, especially as he said quite alot to suggest that he is not God.

But recently my thinking has developed slightly. I no longer believe that God may actually enter creation as a man. I reflect that the enormity of divine infinity, which is what God is, cannot be borne within material finity. I do not believe that the material world or the human body can support God: in much the same way as an animal body cannot support a human spirit.