hu created GOD? mek i go ask ifa [s][/s] God is kald also ELOHIM, meanin d self existing one, he has no decendant nor ancestors

Rankine:
hu created GOD? mek i go ask ifa [s][/s] God is kald also ELOHIM, meanin d self existing one, he has no decendant nor ancestors

The universe is self existing. It created itself. What's good for the goose also works for the gander.

All these atheists, una dey try o

1. Y'all go about boasting that god created the earth, the moon, the sun, people, blah blah blah, but who created God? Definately, a creator must point to the things and raw materials he used to create his work, but the goombah lie of the century or should i say centuries is that god created us and he just appeared from no where and just started creating out of nothing c'mon now, y'all can't be serious grin Even mordern day magicians can point to the tools of their trade.
- Why would an omnipotent God need to point to raw materials? Why would an omnipotent God need, pre-existing materials to create? Your talking about God. (God of the bible perhaps? I don't remember if you specified the Christian God, or just God in general). So I would imagine the God of this scenario is all-powerful, which is typically a trait of (a) God. If that is the case why would this all powerful God need to submit to your standards of proof or logic? Why would/should he squeeze into your box of logic and reasoning? Why would he have to abide by your rules of "truth". And comparing him to "modern day magicians" doesn't make much sense. One is a omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent divine being, another is an finite being of chance who specializes in illusions and slight of hand.

2. Ok your still in doubt. Show me god and let's be done with this argument. grin God is supposedly everywhere. I haven’t personally seen God. Therefore, God doesn’t exist.
- Ending every statement with "Therefore God doesn't exist" is incorrect and prideful. You're approaching this like a debate, yet you seem determined to announce the (supposed) winner of the debate, you, before anyone has actually argued back. For any one person to be named, Correct, or winner, or what have you, there would need to be an officiator, someone outside of the argument, overseeing it. However, we have no such person. So saying the God doesn't exist as a factual statement is unnecessary, and untrue. Untrue? Which brings me to my next point,
- Let me ask you a question... Have you looked under every rock, every leaf, behind every tree, and inside every galaxy for God? Have you personally looked absolutely every where, and still came up empty handed in your search for God? Obviously not. Ironically, If you could, you would prove your own divinity. But since you haven't looked every where, how can you know (key word: know) that God doesn't exist?

3. If God can prevent evil, but doesn't, then He isn't all-loving.
- What is evil? And where do we draw the line on evil? Do you want him to stop some of it, or all of it? If all of it, then he would have to do away with all of us, because we are inherently evil. Now that wouldn't be very loving now would it?
- I'm not entirely sure I agree with God being all-loving. Maybe there's a bible verse (if we are talking about the Christian God) that says this? But just right off the bat, I think, "Well God doesn't love evil." But I think I get your point. If he really loved us then why does he allow evil to persist. And to that I would refer to my first point. If he were to do away with evil, he would have to do away with us as well. Unless perhaps there is an alternative to solving the problem of evil, while allowing us to continue to live?

4. If God intends to prevent evil, but cannot, then He isn't omnipotent.
I understand that this one is kind of a counter/companion question to the first. I'm not sure if I have anything to add to this one, I think I said everything I was thinking in the previous question.

5. If God both intends to prevent evil and is capable of doing so, then how can evil exist?
Same thing, I think all these points were touched upon (to some degree) in the first. I think God can prevent evil. And would certainly want to. But I think that would require doing away with us, like I said. And I think that defeats the purpose of us, and creating, us.

6. Y'all talking about a heaven and hell, but nobody has been there to confirm it's authenticity; besides am not scared of hell. I'll rather be more scared of Mushin and Oshodi
- I don't know what Mushin and Oshodi are, but I'm guessing that was a jeer at the lack of eyewitness accounts of the "scary place" called hell, that people so commonly use to "motivate" you to believe in God. I'm not entirely sure eye witness' accounts of something, or lack thereof, are valid arguments. I mean we teach micro and macro evolution in tandem in public schools (even though the two are different) yet, for macro evolution, (or Darwinian evolution) we have no eyewitnesses. Indeed key parts of the scientific process are observation, recording results, etc. However, in Darwinian evolution, we have no eye witnesses. Now I'm not saying that you believe in Evolution/Darwinian evolution, because you haven't actually stated your position on that topic (and why would you, when we are talking about God), but I bring it up to shine light in the fact that eye witness accounts aren't always required for people to believe.
- Specifically regarding eyewitness accounts of heaven/hell. A book came out not that long ago (and then a movie I believe) called Heaven is For Real. About a boy who was hospitalized for some reason, I'm not sure what. But its about his "experience" with Heaven. I haven't read the book or seen the movie, I'm just referring you to someone who says they've been there, since you were asking for witnesses.

7. How come no body can trace the roots of either mary, joseph or Jesus till date. At least i know my granfather and i know my grandfather can trace his grandfather and it goes on and on and on. Somebody please show me a decendant of any of the 3 or let me spread the drag net, any of the apostles, prophets, sarah, solomon, daniel Anybody in the bible, pleease just point to a living relative. Please dont make davinci code look credible grin
- Well at least for Jesus... the reason we can't trace him is because according to the bible he, A.) Never married or had children, and B.) Ascended to heaven, and therefor wouldn't have any genealogy after him. But obviously that is just one of the list that you mentioned. And I honestly don't know. That's a pretty intense historical, and archaeological question. Maybe there were records and they've since been lost. Or maybe their genealogy ended because everyone in the family died or was killed? Could be any number of reasons that we don't have records of these genealogies. And of course there is the last conclusion, none of them existed, which is what I think you were going for?

8. Someone wrote the Creation story in the Bible. That someone obviously wasn’t an eyewitness to the described events because they are completely unbelievable (and I think there are two very different Creation accounts in Genesis 1 and 2). Therefore, God doesn’t exist.
- Again, we have Darwinian evolution, a "science" with absolutely no eyewitnesses. However, a simple, but unsupportable argument for this point would be, "God told (whoever actually penned the creation story) what to write." Again that doesn't leave much room for debate because it's just speculation.
- Also, I briefly read Genesis 1 and 2, and I don't think I found major continuity errors. But maybe I missed the specific verse or verses you were talking about.

9. A tsunami hit louisiana and new orleans and part of texas. The tsunami destroyed plenty churches. so if God exists, he created the tsunami. For creating the tsunami, god must be very mean and wicked to destroy churches and kill people praying to him, so Therefore, God doesn’t exist because according to you and the bible, god is a kind god grin. So who created the tsunami then?
- "So if God exists, he created the tsunami." I don't think that is sound logic. The tsunami isn't inherently God's doing, from that statement alone. If you used a verse of some kind, in which God takes ownership over the tsunami, or every tsunami ever, then that statement would be inherently correct.
- I would use what I just said in my last point, and what I said in my response to reason number one for this. "For creating the tsunami, God must be very mean." That isn't complete logic. That is just drawing a (possible) conclusion between the two. However, this logical line isn't grounded in anything valid. This is where my response to number 1 comes in. Once again, You have forced God to abide by your terms and standards of good vs. bad, and kindness hostility. So my question again is, Why would/should God abide by your rules? Is it because you're the one that's supposed to be convinced?
- Also people are so quick to say that God is evil and mean if/when he kills people, and understandably so. However the problem is that we think too highly of ourselves. We as humans feel way to entitled. A good book to read in this case would be Job.
But lets say you don't agree with the idea that we think too highly and that we feel entitled. Okay. How about this. If God is real and If he really created us... Then we are his creation... Right? With me so far? He created us, therefor we are His creation. Simple math 2+2=4. So... If we are His creation... Can't he do with us as he pleases? If I make a little planet out of "play-dough" with little figures... I can do with them as I please, right? Its my play-dough. And they are my creation. If I want to keep the little planet with people I made, I can throw in a glass case and keep it forever. Or if I want to change it to something else my mind thinks up, I can flatted the play-dough to begin a new creation. Or perhaps I made one too many persons. I can simply remove them....
In this scenario, I can do as I please with what belongs to me. Right? So why then, do we get so defensive, or angry, or entitled when God does the same. He does with us as he wishes. And when we don't like it, we shake our fists at him. If you are going to create a hypothetical scenario where an omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient God kills the creatures he made, then you must also accept that, that same God can do so, and do so without violating any of our (the created) moral standards. How can the created superimpose their ideas/concepts (potentially flawed ideas to be honest) of morality on the Being that created them. The being that is inherently outside of, not only their moral standards, but outside of their understanding period.

10. Things that exist have energy. Energy isn’t alive. All living things are made from energy. because he is not alive and has no iota of proof that that he has energy so therefore, God doesn’t exist.
- I don't think there was actually anything arguable in this statement. You just jumped straight to, "Because he is not alive...." Which leaves no room for arguing anything. Is this incorrect debate etiquette?
- Again, an all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-present God having to provide proof is somewhat of a silly idea. And once again, forcing him to abide by your/our ideas of science (in this case energy) doesn't exactly reflect the hypothetical scenario with which you started. The God we are talking about is presumably 1.) Omnipotent, B.) Omniscient, and C.) Omnipresent. Why would this God be subject to our very limited mental-logic capabilities? Why would a God like that have to abide by ANY of our standards, or ideas, or ideals.
I say this because in your last statement, you placed the existence of God, on whether or not that same God has energy, AND that he even CAN, or WOULD prove that energy.... That is subjecting him to your standards, two-fold.
In order for God to be real he HAS to have energy... Says who? You? Please.
In order for God to be real he has to PROVE that he HAS that energy that I was talking about. This requirement is already based on invalid authority and logic... So once again my response is, "Says who? You? Under who's authority?

Okay I think I covered everything. I gave it my best shot. When ever you or anyone replies, if any one replies, is totally fine. Ttyl .

Infidel:
First thing first, save all your anger, vexation, open mouth gasp and suprise for my middle finger. The fact that you even checked this thread, shows that your in doubt about the existence of god. So shove it if you came here to player hate.

1. Y'all go about boasting that god created the earth, the moon, the sun, people, blah blah blah, but who created God? Definately, a creator must point to the things and raw materials he used to create his work, but the goombah lie of the century or should i say centuries is that god created us and he just appeared from no where and just started creating out of nothing c'mon now, y'all can't be serious Even mordern day magicians can point to the tools of their trade.

2. Ok your still in doubt. Show me god and let's be done with this argument. God is supposedly everywhere. I haven’t personally seen God. Therefore, God doesn’t exist

3. If God can prevent evil, but doesn't, then He isn't all-loving.

4. If God intends to prevent evil, but cannot, then He isn't omnipotent.

5. If God both intends to prevent evil and is capable of doing so, then how can evil exist?

6. Y'all talking about a heaven and hell, but nobody has been there to confirm it's authenticity; besides am not scared of hell. I'll rather be more scared of Mushin and Oshodi

7. How come no body can trace the roots of either mary, joseph or jesus till date. At least i know my granfather and i know my grandfather can trace his grandfather and it goes on and on and on. Somebody please show me a decendant of any of the 3 or let me spread the drag net, any of the apostles, prophets, sarah, solomon, daniel Anybody in the bible, pleease just point to a living relative. Please dont make davinci code look credible

8. Someone wrote the Creation story in the Bible. That someone obviously wasn’t an eyewitness to the described events because they are completely unbelievable (and I think there are two very different Creation accounts in Genesis 1 and 2). Therefore, God doesn’t exist.

9. A tsunami hit louisiana and new orleans and part of texas. The tsunami destroyed plenty churches. so if God exists, he created the tsunami. For creating the tsunami, god must be very mean and wicked to destroy churches and kill people praying to him, so Therefore, God doesn’t exist because according to you and the bible, god is a kind god . So who created the tsunami then?

10. Things that exist have energy. Energy isn’t alive. All living things are made from energy. because he is not alive and has no iota of proof that that he has energy so therefore, God doesn’t exist.

What a croc of rubbish, decieving people all these years and some freaks would mount the podium to quote scriptures as if they wrote it and claiming rights of authenticity.

The bible has lots of books written by lots of authors over a long period of time. Despite centuries of vigorous god apologetics, they haven’t been able to forge a coherent plot for the whole bible that I can understand. bottomline, God doesn’t exist.

So if i say god is sh*******t, i can go scot free because no body is going to arrest me or punish me, rather i'll hear your tired ol' dumb excuse, your gonna burn in hell! Once again, prove hell exist.

. Your a big fool

lmk3344:
1. Y'all go about boasting that god created the earth, the moon, the sun, people, blah blah blah, but who created God? Definately, a creator must point to the things and raw materials he used to create his work, but the goombah lie of the century or should i say centuries is that god created us and he just appeared from no where and just started creating out of nothing c'mon now, y'all can't be serious grin Even mordern day magicians can point to the tools of their trade.
- Why would an omnipotent God need to point to raw materials? Why would an omnipotent God need, pre-existing materials to create? Your talking about God. (God of the bible perhaps? I don't remember if you specified the Christian God, or just God in general). So I would imagine the God of this scenario is all-powerful, which is typically a trait of (a) God. If that is the case why would this all powerful God need to submit to your standards of proof or logic? Why would/should he squeeze into your box of logic and reasoning? Why would he have to abide by your rules of "truth". And comparing him to "modern day magicians" doesn't make much sense. One is a omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent divine being, another is an finite being of chance who specializes in illusions and slight of hand.

2. Ok your still in doubt. Show me god and let's be done with this argument. grin God is supposedly everywhere. I haven’t personally seen God. Therefore, God doesn’t exist.
- Ending every statement with "Therefore God doesn't exist" is incorrect and prideful. You're approaching this like a debate, yet you seem determined to announce the (supposed) winner of the debate, you, before anyone has actually argued back. For any one person to be named, Correct, or winner, or what have you, there would need to be an officiator, someone outside of the argument, overseeing it. However, we have no such person. So saying the God doesn't exist as a factual statement is unnecessary, and untrue. Untrue? Which brings me to my next point,
- Let me ask you a question... Have you looked under every rock, every leaf, behind every tree, and inside every galaxy for God? Have you personally looked absolutely every where, and still came up empty handed in your search for God? Obviously not. Ironically, If you could, you would prove your own divinity. But since you haven't looked every where, how can you know (key word: know) that God doesn't exist?

3. If God can prevent evil, but doesn't, then He isn't all-loving.
- What is evil? And where do we draw the line on evil? Do you want him to stop some of it, or all of it? If all of it, then he would have to do away with all of us, because we are inherently evil. Now that wouldn't be very loving now would it?
- I'm not entirely sure I agree with God being all-loving. Maybe there's a bible verse (if we are talking about the Christian God) that says this? But just right off the bat, I think, "Well God doesn't love evil." But I think I get your point. If he really loved us then why does he allow evil to persist. And to that I would refer to my first point. If he were to do away with evil, he would have to do away with us as well. Unless perhaps there is an alternative to solving the problem of evil, while allowing us to continue to live?

4. If God intends to prevent evil, but cannot, then He isn't omnipotent.
I understand that this one is kind of a counter/companion question to the first. I'm not sure if I have anything to add to this one, I think I said everything I was thinking in the previous question.

5. If God both intends to prevent evil and is capable of doing so, then how can evil exist?
Same thing, I think all these points were touched upon (to some degree) in the first. I think God can prevent evil. And would certainly want to. But I think that would require doing away with us, like I said. And I think that defeats the purpose of us, and creating, us.

6. Y'all talking about a heaven and hell, but nobody has been there to confirm it's authenticity; besides am not scared of hell. I'll rather be more scared of Mushin and Oshodi
- I don't know what Mushin and Oshodi are, but I'm guessing that was a jeer at the lack of eyewitness accounts of the "scary place" called hell, that people so commonly use to "motivate" you to believe in God. I'm not entirely sure eye witness' accounts of something, or lack thereof, are valid arguments. I mean we teach micro and macro evolution in tandem in public schools (even though the two are different) yet, for macro evolution, (or Darwinian evolution) we have no eyewitnesses. Indeed key parts of the scientific process are observation, recording results, etc. However, in Darwinian evolution, we have no eye witnesses. Now I'm not saying that you believe in Evolution/Darwinian evolution, because you haven't actually stated your position on that topic (and why would you, when we are talking about God), but I bring it up to shine light in the fact that eye witness accounts aren't always required for people to believe.
- Specifically regarding eyewitness accounts of heaven/hell. A book came out not that long ago (and then a movie I believe) called Heaven is For Real. About a boy who was hospitalized for some reason, I'm not sure what. But its about his "experience" with Heaven. I haven't read the book or seen the movie, I'm just referring you to someone who says they've been there, since you were asking for witnesses.

7. How come no body can trace the roots of either mary, joseph or Jesus till date. At least i know my granfather and i know my grandfather can trace his grandfather and it goes on and on and on. Somebody please show me a decendant of any of the 3 or let me spread the drag net, any of the apostles, prophets, sarah, solomon, daniel Anybody in the bible, pleease just point to a living relative. Please dont make davinci code look credible grin
- Well at least for Jesus... the reason we can't trace him is because according to the bible he, A.) Never married or had children, and B.) Ascended to heaven, and therefor wouldn't have any genealogy after him. But obviously that is just one of the list that you mentioned. And I honestly don't know. That's a pretty intense historical, and archaeological question. Maybe there were records and they've since been lost. Or maybe their genealogy ended because everyone in the family died or was killed? Could be any number of reasons that we don't have records of these genealogies. And of course there is the last conclusion, none of them existed, which is what I think you were going for?

8. Someone wrote the Creation story in the Bible. That someone obviously wasn’t an eyewitness to the described events because they are completely unbelievable (and I think there are two very different Creation accounts in Genesis 1 and 2). Therefore, God doesn’t exist.
- Again, we have Darwinian evolution, a "science" with absolutely no eyewitnesses. However, a simple, but unsupportable argument for this point would be, "God told (whoever actually penned the creation story) what to write." Again that doesn't leave much room for debate because it's just speculation.
- Also, I briefly read Genesis 1 and 2, and I don't think I found major continuity errors. But maybe I missed the specific verse or verses you were talking about.

9. A tsunami hit louisiana and new orleans and part of texas. The tsunami destroyed plenty churches. so if God exists, he created the tsunami. For creating the tsunami, god must be very mean and wicked to destroy churches and kill people praying to him, so Therefore, God doesn’t exist because according to you and the bible, god is a kind god grin. So who created the tsunami then?
- "So if God exists, he created the tsunami." I don't think that is sound logic. The tsunami isn't inherently God's doing, from that statement alone. If you used a verse of some kind, in which God takes ownership over the tsunami, or every tsunami ever, then that statement would be inherently correct.
- I would use what I just said in my last point, and what I said in my response to reason number one for this. "For creating the tsunami, God must be very mean." That isn't complete logic. That is just drawing a (possible) conclusion between the two. However, this logical line isn't grounded in anything valid. This is where my response to number 1 comes in. Once again, You have forced God to abide by your terms and standards of good vs. bad, and kindness hostility. So my question again is, Why would/should God abide by your rules? Is it because you're the one that's supposed to be convinced?
- Also people are so quick to say that God is evil and mean if/when he kills people, and understandably so. However the problem is that we think too highly of ourselves. We as humans feel way to entitled. A good book to read in this case would be Job.
But lets say you don't agree with the idea that we think too highly and that we feel entitled. Okay. How about this. If God is real and If he really created us... Then we are his creation... Right? With me so far? He created us, therefor we are His creation. Simple math 2+2=4. So... If we are His creation... Can't he do with us as he pleases? If I make a little planet out of "play-dough" with little figures... I can do with them as I please, right? Its my play-dough. And they are my creation. If I want to keep the little planet with people I made, I can throw in a glass case and keep it forever. Or if I want to change it to something else my mind thinks up, I can flatted the play-dough to begin a new creation. Or perhaps I made one too many persons. I can simply remove them....
In this scenario, I can do as I please with what belongs to me. Right? So why then, do we get so defensive, or angry, or entitled when God does the same. He does with us as he wishes. And when we don't like it, we shake our fists at him. If you are going to create a hypothetical scenario where an omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient God kills the creatures he made, then you must also accept that, that same God can do so, and do so without violating any of our (the created) moral standards. How can the created superimpose their ideas/concepts (potentially flawed ideas to be honest) of morality on the Being that created them. The being that is inherently outside of, not only their moral standards, but outside of their understanding period.

10. Things that exist have energy. Energy isn’t alive. All living things are made from energy. because he is not alive and has no iota of proof that that he has energy so therefore, God doesn’t exist.
- I don't think there was actually anything arguable in this statement. You just jumped straight to, "Because he is not alive...." Which leaves no room for arguing anything. Is this incorrect debate etiquette?
- Again, an all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-present God having to provide proof is somewhat of a silly idea. And once again, forcing him to abide by your/our ideas of science (in this case energy) doesn't exactly reflect the hypothetical scenario with which you started. The God we are talking about is presumably 1.) Omnipotent, B.) Omniscient, and C.) Omnipresent. Why would this God be subject to our very limited mental-logic capabilities? Why would a God like that have to abide by ANY of our standards, or ideas, or ideals.
I say this because in your last statement, you placed the existence of God, on whether or not that same God has energy, AND that he even CAN, or WOULD prove that energy.... That is subjecting him to your standards, two-fold.
In order for God to be real he HAS to have energy... Says who? You? Please.
In order for God to be real he has to PROVE that he HAS that energy that I was talking about. This requirement is already based on invalid authority and logic... So once again my response is, "Says who? You? Under who's authority?

Okay I think I covered everything. I gave it my best shot. When ever you or anyone replies, if any one replies, is totally fine. Ttyl .

You re a big fool

Debaw:
You re a big fool

Calling someone a fool simply for not sharing your beliefs seems like foolishness itself to me
It's just like Jihadists killing people because they're not muslims or fundamentalist american christians killing muslims.
Tell him about your beliefs and if he doesn't accept it, leave him. There's nothing wrong with having religious beliefs. What if your belief was also wrong?

Infidel:
First thing first, save all your anger, vexation, open mouth gasp and suprise for my middle finger. The fact that you even checked this thread, shows that your in doubt about the existence of god. So shove it if you came here to player hate.

1. Y'all go about boasting that god created the earth, the moon, the sun, people, blah blah blah, but who created God? Definately, a creator must point to the things and raw materials he used to create his work, but the goombah lie of the century or should i say centuries is that god created us and he just appeared from no where and just started creating out of nothing c'mon now, y'all can't be serious Even mordern day magicians can point to the tools of their trade.

2. Ok your still in doubt. Show me god and let's be done with this argument. God is supposedly everywhere. I haven’t personally seen God. Therefore, God doesn’t exist

3. If God can prevent evil, but doesn't, then He isn't all-loving.

4. If God intends to prevent evil, but cannot, then He isn't omnipotent.

5. If God both intends to prevent evil and is capable of doing so, then how can evil exist?

6. Y'all talking about a heaven and hell, but nobody has been there to confirm it's authenticity; besides am not scared of hell. I'll rather be more scared of Mushin and Oshodi

7. How come no body can trace the roots of either mary, joseph or jesus till date. At least i know my granfather and i know my grandfather can trace his grandfather and it goes on and on and on. Somebody please show me a decendant of any of the 3 or let me spread the drag net, any of the apostles, prophets, sarah, solomon, daniel Anybody in the bible, pleease just point to a living relative. Please dont make davinci code look credible

8. Someone wrote the Creation story in the Bible. That someone obviously wasn’t an eyewitness to the described events because they are completely unbelievable (and I think there are two very different Creation accounts in Genesis 1 and 2). Therefore, God doesn’t exist.

9. A tsunami hit louisiana and new orleans and part of texas. The tsunami destroyed plenty churches. so if God exists, he created the tsunami. For creating the tsunami, god must be very mean and wicked to destroy churches and kill people praying to him, so Therefore, God doesn’t exist because according to you and the bible, god is a kind god . So who created the tsunami then?

10. Things that exist have energy. Energy isn’t alive. All living things are made from energy. because he is not alive and has no iota of proof that that he has energy so therefore, God doesn’t exist.

What a croc of rubbish, decieving people all these years and some freaks would mount the podium to quote scriptures as if they wrote it and claiming rights of authenticity.

The bible has lots of books written by lots of authors over a long period of time. Despite centuries of vigorous god apologetics, they haven’t been able to forge a coherent plot for the whole bible that I can understand. bottomline, God doesn’t exist.

So if i say god is sh*******t, i can go scot free because no body is going to arrest me or punish me, rather i'll hear your tired ol' dumb excuse, your gonna burn in hell! Once again, prove hell exist.

Your post just made my day! I finally found another person that has the same mind as me. You are my new friend! Cheers!