Aemmyjah:


😂
Who mention faith and hope? Was it not you?
Both go hand in hand

There are many articles and videos as to why hope is useless while faith is great. One said hope is waiting for the fire to die down or walking through the fire, while faith is leaping over the fire

Aemmyjah:


Another faulty thinki
Try again

Simple: people will stop misbehaving if you punish them as soon as they misbehave.
Example: if the forbidden fruit had given Adam serious diarrhea, I don't think he'd ever go near it again

FxMasterz:


Seun, kindly soften the ban intensity of your antispam bots from high to low. The bans can be sometimes annoying when one has done virtually nothing wrong. If you've customized your bots against Politeactivist, please free the man. If atheists are loosing, then their souls are gaining. We who have vivid spiritual experiences with God can already tell with 100% assurance the ultimate destination of a Godless soul.

Thank you sooooo much!!
But as unbiased umpire I don't necessarily agree with the rest

FRANCISTOWN:


PoliteActivist is not my son. She is a mature lady.

One thing you should know is that, Atheism is a personal thing.
I'm an atheist and I don't believe in God, people, and anything that I can't see, touch, feel, smell. The only thing I believe in is myself and my library(I love it so much).

There are atheists who believe people, governments, parents, pets, friends. As a matter of fact, there are atheists who believe there are ghosts and other paranormal phenomena.

Does that make them less of an atheist? Well! I don't know. I mean they do not believe there is a god because they've not encountered ha. Yet they believe in those things they've not encountered. Even if they were sure they've encountered those things that others might not have, don't they think others have encountered a god that they've not had?

Anyways that's not the point.

Atheists have faith but we don't have hope.
And it's the force of faith that drives atheists.

Atheists have faith first, then act.
Theists act, then they hope.

Faith and hope are the same in theism.
In atheism they are entirely different.

This is deep, I hope your brain power can comprehend.
If you still didn't understand, I can give you some scenarios.

Please educate him.
There are many articles and videos as to why hope is useless while faith is great. One said hope is waiting for the fire to die down or walking through the fire, while faith is leaping over the fire. I don’t necessarily agree

PoliteActivist:


Simple: people will stop misbehaving if you punish them as soon as they misbehave.
Example: if the forbidden fruit had given Adam serious diarrhea, I don't think he'd ever go near it again

A faulty example
Think harder and try again

*Continuing response to JessicaRabbi. I'll post more responses after this - if I'm not banned for posting this!

I want to emphasize, I was not saying God does not exist (otherwise I'd be biased against our religionist friends), I was simply logically trying to point out that EVEN IF God did not exist, it'd still be "richer" to be a religionist than an atheist. In other words, faith in God is in itself a valuable possession - whether God exists or not! A possession an atheist can't have. A religionist can have everything an atheist has - PLUS faith in God.
But an atheist can't have everything a religionist has.
Even the richest atheist lacks something the poorest religionst has - faith in God!
That's why I put "poorer" in quotes, but you took it literally
Also, the human mind is very powerful. It is possible our mind creates what we perceive as reality. And since the mind does not know the difference between what is imagined and what is real (assuming there is a difference), if you believe strongly enough something exists, it exists!

FxMasterz, maynman, Dtruthspeaker, Image123, DrJones109, Jesusjnr2022, LordReed, Jaephoenix, JessicaRabbit, Knownunknown, DeepSight, BBIA HellVictorinho6, SIXFEETUNDER, OkpaNsukkaisBae, Bacteriologist, FRANCISTOWN, SIRTee15, Aemmyjah, TheSourcerer,
Busybrain2233, 1Sharon, TakeNigeriaBack,
Botragelad, isan, MaxInDHouse, Fourthpredator,
seun, hopefullandlord, bobestman, Lorrayne, HardMirror, Hahn, SlawG, albreezy4eva, Muslim, Dominique, Mrbroke, EnemyofGod2,  kkins25, Wilgrea7, A001, Maynthemayn

PoliteActivist:


There are many articles and videos as to why hope is useless while faith is great. One said hope is waiting for the fire to die down or walking through the fire, while faith is leaping over the fire

Here's an analogy: Imagine building a bridge. Faith is the firm belief that the bridge can be built and will be strong. Hope is the positive expectation that the bridge will lead to a better place on the other side.

Analogy:

Think of faith as the foundation of a building, and hope as the roof. The foundation provides stability and support, while the roof represents the aspirations and goals for the future. Both are crucial for a complete structure.

Imagine this
A farmer has faith that he will have good yield in his planting but he hopes that the rains will come. He has no control over the rains. He hopes that it will come cos plants need it.
Is it stupid to hope for something to come?

PoliteActivist:


Thank you sooooo much!!
But as unbiased umpire I don't necessarily agree with the rest

You don't need to agree if it's not yet your reality. But I can't deny my reality. And, on the basis of that, I know, and I know that God exists. Atheists appear more foolish when they want to explain someone else's reality away and even call it a lie. They do this most of the time. I can also call an atheist a liar for saying he has never experienced God or the supernatural.

Aemmyjah:

Atheist do not believe in hope. They say hope is stupid and nonsense

Francistown, come and educate this son of yours cos you both are baby atheists

I have hope. I have hope that I will achieve my goals. I have hope I will live to see my children give birth to their own children. I have hope I will live a good life.

You should ask before you say what you don't know.

FRANCISTOWN:


PoliteActivist is not my son. She is a mature lady.

One thing you should know is that, Atheism is a personal thing.
I'm an atheist and I don't believe in God, people, and anything that I can't see, touch, feel, smell. The only thing I believe in is myself and my library(I love it so much).

There are atheists who believe people, governments, parents, pets, friends. As a matter of fact, there are atheists who believe there are ghosts and other paranormal phenomena.

Does that make them less of an atheist? Well! I don't know. I mean they do not believe there is a god because they've not encountered ha. Yet they believe in those things they've not encountered. Even if they were sure they've encountered those things that others might not have, don't they think others have encountered a god that they've not had?

Anyways that's not the point.

Atheists have faith but we don't have hope.
And it's the force of faith that drives atheists.

Atheists have faith first, then act.
Theists act, then they hope.

Faith and hope are the same in theism.
In atheism they are entirely different.

This is deep, I hope your brain power can comprehend.
If you still didn't understand, I can give you some scenarios.

I don't know what you mean because I do have hope. What faith do you think drives me? Faith in what by the way?

PoliteActivist:


Please educate him.
There are many articles and videos as to why hope is useless while faith is great. One said hope is waiting for the fire to die down or walking through the fire, while faith is leaping over the fire. I don’t necessarily agree

Aemmyjah is probably not at fault. It is religious indoctrinations, especially christianity. And many christians got that wrong knowledge from Paul in Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

No wonder jaephoenix titled a thread "Bible, the book of gaffes."

Apostle paul had mental issues, yet christians take all his words as an authority. The word of a mad man.
If you noticed the book of Hebrews. It doesn't bear any semblance with Paul's style at all, and that's why some people think someone else must have written the book of Hebrews.

Faith is simply a confidence. Everyone on the surface of this earth exercises faith. For instance, every human being on earth when they wake don't need to hope they'll be able to walk.
We wake and we just walk straight into the bathroom to take a leak(Now that's faith, why won't I be able to walk, it's not as if something is wrong with my legs).

I don't need to hope my charger works, if all things being equal? I just plug to the socket and connect my phone. That's faith, it's confidence.

Now hope exists in doubt. Hope exists when something isn't 100% certain. "We hope Jesus will come back and take the beloved", " we hope God will answer our prayers and heal the Reverend", "we hope one day we'll succeed ".
Hope is a deceit, trying to run away from reality. But no matter how far they run. They will still come back to reality. That's when depression sets in.

If we replaced faith=confidence and hope="running away from reality" in Paul's definition. Heb 11:1 would now read as. "Now confidence is the substance of running away from reality, the evidence of things not seen."

Indeed Paul was a mad person.
Or could it not be Paul?

LordReed:


I have hope. I have hope that I will achieve my goals. I have hope I will live to see my children give birth to their own children. I have hope I will live a good life.

You should ask before you say what you don't know.

Faith is the result of current belief systems as shaped by experience, whereas hope is the product of desiring a future state of affairs.

Faith is confidence or trust in something or someone.

Hope is an optimistic attitude based on expectation or desire. Meaning that there is a chance of it happening in the future.

So you mean, you feel there is a chance you achieve your goals or you may not achieve them? There is a chance you will live a good life and there is also a chance you will not?

You feel optimistic that you'll be in good health to see your grands, but what happens when you don't get to see them? Your optimism becomes a disappointment, innit?

I totally respect your opinion and disposition though. But I don't live my own life on hope. I live by faith. Therefore I do everything I ought to do to bring about what I have faith in.

FRANCISTOWN:


Faith is the result of current belief systems as shaped by experience, whereas hope is the product of desiring a future state of affairs.

Faith is confidence or trust in something or someone.

Hope is an optimistic attitude based on expectation or desire. Meaning that there is a chance of it happening in the future.

So you mean, you feel there is a chance you achieve your goals or you may not achieve them? There is a chance you will live a good life and there is also a chance you will not?

You feel optimistic that you'll be in good health to see your grands, but what happens when you don't get to see them? Your optimism becomes a disappointment, innit?

I totally respect your opinion and disposition though. But I don't live my own life on hope. I live by faith. Therefore I do everything I ought to do to bring about what I have faith in.

Yes I have hope because none of these things are guaranteed to happen no matter how much faith you have.

What is your faith in?

LordReed:


I don't know what you mean because I do have hope. What faith do you think drives me? Faith in what by the way?

Having hopes or not doesn't make anyone less of an atheist or an Igtheist, in my own humble opinion.

Hope is desire plus expectation. Hope is an uncertain but an optimistic orientation towards the future.

Faith is a confidence that A is A anywhere.

One of the reasons you don't believe in God is because you have faith that there is no God and not believing in him will not be a detriment to your life.

Why did you go to bed without praying? Its because you have faith that no there are no demons that'll attack you.

Why do you not sit in some odd places praying for success. Is it not because you have faith that the work of your hands will feed you?

Hope is simply an expectation of a desire. An illusion, trying to avoid known realities ( something you do not have a control over)

Faith is confidence.

LordReed:


Yes I have hope because none of these things are guaranteed to happen no matter how much faith you have.

What is your faith in?

All of these things are guaranteed to happen. They are norms. Now when they don't, they are called misfortunes.

It is guaranteed that, I should be able to walk myself to the bathroom tomorrow. That's a normal thing. Now if I can't? That becomes abnormal, a misfortune.

Some products come with "guaranteed". It's to tell the product will work as expected. But if didn't? That's a mistake and we'll refund the consumer.

Let's say you want to purchase a product, and on it you see a label that says "This product might work or not work, but we hope it works" or you are intending to buy a house and the agent goes like "this area is plagued with robberies, we hope your house is exempted". Will you proceed?

I will have a good life(if I put in the work), I will achieve my goals (if I put in the required sacrifice). I will live to see my grands(if I took care of my health) . Now anything that'll deprive me of that is either a negligence from my own end or simply a misfortune (mistake).

Now to your question, "what do I have faith in?".
I have faith only in myself and my library. I love the air that comes from the window when the A.C is off at night.

FRANCISTOWN:

Having hopes or not doesn't make anyone less of an atheist or an Igtheist, in my own humble opinion.

Hope is desire plus expectation. Hope is an uncertain but an optimistic orientation towards the future.

Faith is a confidence that A is A anywhere.

One of the reasons you don't believe in God is because you have faith that there is no God and not believing in him will not be a detriment to your life.

Why did you go to bed without praying? Its because you have faith that no there are no demons that'll attack you.

Why do you not sit in some odd places praying for success. Is it not because you have faith that the work of your hands will feed you?

Hope is simply an expectation of a desire. An illusion, trying to avoid known realities ( something you do not have a control over)

Faith is confidence.

You phrasing this in an odd way as if you are trying to force some of the meanings you are attributing. I work because that is the system I am in, I go to work, I get paid for my work. Even if I was to doubt that I would get paid I'll still get paid so I don't see what faith has to do with it.

I do have a certain level of confidence that the Christian conception god doesn't exist and to a certain degree of confidence I also think the entire conceptions called gods are nonsensical but I don't know if I can call that faith. I describe my position as a lack of belief so why would I now describe it as having faith? Besides if faith was confidence then what are believers confident in when adversity negates what ought to give them confidence in the first place?

I don't like semantic wranglings, I think it just muddies the waters for no clear benefit. Why can't we just say confidence instead of faith then latter trying to wrangle faith into meaning confidence. Just like those who say the universe is god, why the extra step?

LordReed:


You phrasing this in an odd way as if you are trying to force some of the meanings you are attributing. I work because that is the system I am in, I go to work, I get paid for my work. Even if I was to doubt that I would get paid I'll still get paid so I don't see what faith has to do with it.

I do have a certain level of confidence that the Christian conception god doesn't exist and to a certain degree of confidence I also think the entire conceptions called gods are nonsensical but I don't know if I can call that faith. I describe my position as a lack of belief so why would I now describe it as having faith? Besides if faith was confidence then what are believers confident in when adversity negates what ought to give them confidence in the first place?

I don't like semantic wranglings, I think it just muddies the waters for no clear benefit. Why can't we just say confidence instead of faith then latter trying to wrangle faith into meaning confidence. Just like those who say the universe is god, why the extra step?

Alright. Every man to his own beliefs. There are atheists who have hopes, and there are christians who even believe that hope is useless.

I was studying about some ancient Greek and Hawaiian philosophy one time and I was not surprised that I'm not the only one who sees hope as evil. One said that hope is empty and no good and makes humanity lazy by taking away their industriousness, making them prone to evil

Nietzsche also said
“Hope, in reality, is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.”

There a/were more than 100 philosophers with their quotes and many people who also saw hope as being utterly evil, foolish and useless.

I cannot debate over a personal opinion. If you felt hope is good for you. Then best of luck.

I Francis do not operate my life based on hopes.

FRANCISTOWN:

All of these things are guaranteed to happen. They are norms. Now when they don't, they are called misfortunes.

It is guaranteed that, I should be able to walk myself to the bathroom tomorrow. That's a normal thing. Now if I can't? That becomes abnormal, a misfortune.

Some products come with "guaranteed". It's to tell the product will work as expected. But if didn't? That's a mistake and we'll refund the consumer.

Let's say you want to purchase a product, and on it you see a label that says "This product might work or not work, but we hope it works" or you are intending to buy a house and the agent goes like "this area is plagued with robberies, we hope your house is exempted". Will you proceed?

I will have a good life(if I put in the work), I will achieve my goals (if I put in the required sacrifice). I will live to see my grands(if I took care of my health) . Now anything that'll deprive me of that is either a negligence from my own end or simply a misfortune (mistake).

Now to your question, "what do I have faith in?".
I have faith only in myself and my library. I love the air that comes from the window when the A.C is off at night.

Huh? Living a good life is not guaranteed or else a majority of the population would be doing so. Same with health and longevity. Median life expectancy of men in Nigeria is hovering at about 52 - 54 years of age which means half of the population of men will die before that point so how is longevity guaranteed?

No it is not guaranteed that you'd be able to walk to your bathroom because you have no idea what factors are in play that can change your life in an instant. The reason why manufacturers can issue guarantees it because they control the factors that went into making that product so they can reasonably predict what it can withstand. Notice that your guarantee is voided under certain conditions, For instance IP rated devices may be guaranteed to have protection in water up to a depth of 1m. If you immerse the device past that depth and anything happens you have voided the guarantee.

Your waking up tomorrow has no such guarantees because there is no one who knows all the things that are going to put them in a position to issue such a guarantee. You can have confidence you'll wake tomorrow though because you have observed over the past number of days you've been alive that come the morning after sleeping you wake. Your confidence is not a guarantee.

I would say that your acknowledgment of the possibility of misfortune occuring negates the notion of a guarantee. You could step out briefly this night and be run over so what happens to you walking to the bathroom tomorrow morning?

May I probe further to ask what do you mean by you have faith in yourself? Does that mean you think you can grow wings and fly? I am being facetious with that question but I want you attempt to elaborate on what that faith in yourself means or what it achieves.

FRANCISTOWN:


Alright. Every man to his own beliefs. There are atheists who have hopes, and there are christians who even believe that hope is useless.

I was studying about some ancient Greek and Hawaiian philosophy one time and I was not surprised that I'm not the only one who sees hope as evil. One said that hope is empty and no good and makes humanity lazy by taking away their industriousness, making them prone to evil

Nietzsche also said
“Hope, in reality, is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.”

There a/were more than 100 philosophers with their quotes and many people who also saw hope as being utterly evil, foolish and useless.

I cannot debate over a personal opinion. If you felt hope is good for you. Then best of luck.

I Francis do not operate my life based on hopes.

Hold on, are you saying if I hope to get a million dollars and work towards getting a million dollars it is no longer hope?

LordReed:


Huh? Living a good life is not guaranteed or else a majority of the population would be doing so. Same with health and longevity. Median life expectancy of men in Nigeria is hovering at about 52 - 54 years of age which means half of the population of men will die before that point so how is longevity guaranteed?

No it is not guaranteed that you'd be able to walk to your bathroom because you have no idea what factors are in play that can change your life in an instant. The reason why manufacturers can issue guarantees it because they control the factors that went into making that product so they can reasonably predict what it can withstand. Notice that your guarantee is voided under certain conditions, For instance IP rated devices may be guaranteed to have protection in water up to a depth of 1m. If you immerse the device past that depth and anything happens you have voided the guarantee.

Your waking up tomorrow has no such guarantees because there is no one who knows all the things that are going to put them in a position to issue such a guarantee. You can have confidence you'll wake tomorrow though because you have observed over the past number of days you've been alive that come the morning after sleeping you wake. Your confidence is not a guarantee.

I would say that your acknowledgment of the possibility of misfortune occuring negates the notion of a guarantee. You could step out briefly this night and be run over so what happens to you walking to the bathroom tomorrow morning?

May I probe further to ask what do you mean by you have faith in yourself? Does that mean you think you can grow wings and fly? I am being facetious with that question but I want you attempt to elaborate on what that faith in yourself means or what it achieves.

What are you even saying? Which man goes outside his gate thinking he might get run over by a moving vehicle? Are you seriously kidding me right now?
Since you knew your waking up tomorrow isn't guaranteed , why don't you buy a burial site and a coffin just in case. Lol! LordReed will not kill me.

LordReed, are you honestly saying when you wake tomorrow, you'd first stagger your feet to be sure you can walk? Or you might wake tomorrow a lame?

I understand that misfortunes happen at anytime, but I don't always think myself a recipient of evil occurrences.

Isn't this the same reason christians flock to church, because they want an imaginary entity to prevent them from the imminent evils of life?

I have faith in myself that I am the only one that can help myself. No one is expected to save me but me. I believe in my handiworks. People might say things and act differently. At the end of the day, everyone is looking out for themselves.

FRANCISTOWN:


What are you even saying? Which man goes outside his gate thinking he might get run over by a moving vehicle? Are you seriously kidding me right now?
Since you knew your waking up tomorrow isn't guaranteed , why don't you buy a burial site and a coffin just in case. Lol! LordReed will not kill me.

LordReed, are you honestly saying when you wake tomorrow, you'd first stagger your feet to be sure you can walk? Or you might wake tomorrow a lame?

I understand that misfortunes happen at anytime, but I don't always think myself a recipient of evil occurrences.

Isn't this the same reason christians flock to church, because they want an imaginary entity to prevent them from the imminent evils of life?

I have faith in myself that I am the only one that can help myself. No one is expected to save me but me. I believe in my handiworks. People might say things and act differently. At the end of the day, everyone is looking out for themselves.

You must have missed this part:

LordReed:


You can have confidence you'll wake tomorrow though because you have observed over the past number of days you've been alive that come the morning after sleeping you wake. Your confidence is not a guarantee.

So lemme repeat my other question: Hold on, are you saying if I hope to get a million dollars and work towards getting a million dollars it is no longer hope?

LordReed:


Hold on, are you saying if I hope to get a million dollars and work towards getting a million dollars it is no longer hope?

Hoping to get a million dollars. Out of desire or out of a properly laid out plan?

FRANCISTOWN:

Hoping to get a million dollars. Out of desire or out of a properly laid out plan?

Planned.

LordReed:



Your waking up tomorrow has no such guarantees because there is no one who knows all the things that are going to put them in a position to issue such a guarantee. You can have confidence you'll wake tomorrow though because you have observed over the past number of days you've been alive that come the morning after sleeping you wake. Your confidence is not a guarantee.

My confidence is absolutely a guarantee. And my guarantee is in my confidence.

Why will I not wake tomorrow? On a good day, whoever sleeps must wakes. It's anomaly to sleep and not wake. Otherwise's variables not withstanding.

FRANCISTOWN:


My confidence is absolutely a guarantee. And my guarantee is in my confidence.

Why will I not wake tomorrow? On a good day, whoever sleeps must wakes. It's anomaly to sleep and not wake. Otherwise's variables not withstanding.

Why must they wake up?

LordReed:


Planned.

Your faith is in your plan.
Whatever your hope might be is useless.

LordReed:


Why must they wake up?

Why must they not wake up?

FRANCISTOWN:

Why must they not wake up?

You are the one declaring it's a must not me. You are the one who needs to show how it is guaranteed.

LordReed:


You are the one declaring it's a must not me. You are the one who needs to show how it is guaranteed.

If I said if all things being equal , on a norms . Water must flow downhill and you say it's not guaranteed. Shouldn't anyone who challenges normalcy shoulder the responsibilities of proofs?

FRANCISTOWN:


If I said if all things being equal , on a norms . Water must flow downhill and you say it's not guaranteed. Shouldn't anyone who challenges normalcy shoulder the responsibilities of proofs?

Death is normal too isn't it? Accidents are normal even misfortune is a normal. And when I say normal I mean it can happen to anybody and has no "supernatural" causes.

Water flowing downhill is not the same as sleeping and waking. We know practically all there is to know about water going down hill because we understand the physical forces and circumstances that make it so. Can't say the same for sleeping and waking. Have you heard of SIDS before? Sudden infant death syndrome has no known cause and is the leading cause death in children between 1 month and a year. Factor that into your response.

FRANCISTOWN:


Aemmyjah is probably not at fault. It is religious indoctrinations, especially christianity. And many christians got that wrong knowledge from Paul in Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

No wonder jaephoenix titled a thread "Bible, the book of gaffes."

Apostle paul had mental issues, yet christians take all his words as an authority. The word of a mad man.
If you noticed the book of Hebrews. It doesn't bear any semblance with Paul's style at all, and that's why some people think someone else must have written the book of Hebrews.

Faith is simply a confidence. Everyone on the surface of this earth exercises faith. For instance, every human being on earth when they wake don't need to hope they'll be able to walk.
We wake and we just walk straight into the bathroom to take a leak(Now that's faith, why won't I be able to walk, it's not as if something is wrong with my legs).

I don't need to hope my charger works, if all things being equal? I just plug to the socket and connect my phone. That's faith, it's confidence.

Now hope exists in doubt. Hope exists when something isn't 100% certain. "We hope Jesus will come back and take the beloved", " we hope God will answer our prayers and heal the Reverend", "we hope one day we'll succeed ".
Hope is a deceit, trying to run away from reality. But no matter how far they run. They will still come back to reality. That's when depression sets in.

If we replaced faith=confidence and hope="running away from reality" in Paul's definition. Heb 11:1 would now read as. "Now confidence is the substance of running away from reality, the evidence of things not seen."

Indeed Paul was a mad person.
Or could it not be Paul?

Mumu
See who is calling someone mad
You don't even know what faith is

A poor man can have faith that he's a millionaire only when he receives a cheque of such money and he's not seen such money but that cheque is the evidence of faith
If someone were to give someone in your family such cheque and he happily comes to show you, you will call him a mad man since he's not seen such money
Your head de hot