thank goodness, ramsey went to arsenal.
his bad luck would have made me become a sniper and have his welsh head in my cross-hair!

@debo
Just as you don't analyse a chess game only by the final move that wins/loses the game, you also don't analyse football only by the person who caused/scored the goal.

I believe EVERYONE has agreed TV5 caused both goals. Yes Song made mistakes too and RVP failed to convert a glaring chance BUT Ramsey was his USUAL self, misplacing passes. Ive not said we would have won if Ramsey didn't play (noone knows that) BUT Ramsey's negative passes affected us on saturday and he should not be starting games when others are available.

We've seen this before so its not new. Ramsey may turn out well eventually maybe his long term lay off is affecting him but at the moment, we've seen Benayoun do better at LM position. However, AW can continue with his stubborness.

As to Oxlaide's contribution, Oxlaide played midfield when he came in. My argument was and still remains that he would have done better than Theo against Taiye Taiwo. And he proved it with his first attack from that position. He won us a freekick. Every game deserves to be treated differently. We should have done better on that wing with a player who knows what to do with the ball at his feet.

proudly9ja: @debo
Just as you don't analyse a chess game only by the final move that wins/loses the game, you also don't analyse football only by the person who caused/scored the goal.

I will examine your basis of analysing games to see if it is credible.

I believe EVERYONE has agreed TV5 caused both goals. Yes Song made mistakes too and RVP failed to convert a glaring chance BUT Ramsey was his USUAL self, misplacing passes. Ive not said we would have won if Ramsey didn't play (noone knows that) BUT Ramsey's negative passes affected us on saturday and he should not be starting games when others are available.

Ramsey's negative passes affected us, but Song's 6 out of 7 failed through balls (because of the rubbish Cesc hype) didn't affect us? You lot are grasping at straws. Whose negative passes did not affect us? How many times did Rozzi lose possession and wave his hands instead of tracking back? That didn't affect us?

When Gervinho came on, was he not his so called 'usual' self since the ACN, wasting possession? Did that not affect us too?

Must you find someone else to blame once your 'favourites' are at fault? I bet if it was Ramsey that missed that RVP chance we'd never hear the end of it, or if he made the same mistakes as TV5 did.

We've seen this before so its not new. Ramsey may turn out well eventually maybe his long term lay off is affecting him but at the moment, we've seen Benayoun do better at LM position. However, AW can continue with his stubborness.

We've seen Rozzi playing badly before too - I guess we should bench him for that. Oh what about the darling Song? Did we not see him playing badly before? Now we're not judging by the evidence in front of you, it's what you've 'seen before'. That's the basis of Arsenal fan analysis on NL - excuse the blatant failings of your favourites and just pick on those you dislike.

I guess I can also say I've seen Ramsey 'before' scoring against Sunderland as evidence for supporting his inclusion. Terrible analysis.

As to Oxlaide's contribution, Oxlaide played midfield when he came in. My argument was and still remains that he would have done better than Theo against Taiye Taiwo. And he proved it with his first attack from that position. He won us a freekick.

Wow! He won us a free-kick! Fantastic!! You come on for 20+ mins and win a free kick as proof. BTW - Chamakh won us a freekick too, I guess we should have started him too!

Did Theo not win freekicks yesterday against Taiwo?

Every game deserves to be treated differently. We should have done better on that wing with a player who knows what to do with the ball at his feet.

I guess Theo had the ball to his head when he scored the goal right?

Arsenal fans are a class apart - players who score goals should not be started, you should start those that come on for 20 mins and win you a free kick. The shocking lack of logic is quite unbelievable.

If this watery, anemic analysis is what you're offering above scoring goals (including contribution to the goals)and conceding goals including contribution to conceding) then you're better of trying to convince adults that Santa Claus exists.

@Jencejide
I cant just find the like button, i could have hit it on your post.

The whole team was poor on the day and that's because the boss has decided to continue playing Ramsey even when he's not inform.

I have noticed that using four midfielders (Song,Rosicky,Arteta,Ramsey) warrants passing the ball to and fro within the middle of the park. This formation is ineffective as it doesnt allow free flow of ball to our attackers. This often result to misplacement of passes. And against a sharp opposing strikers, they prey on us. Recall the humiliation we had AC Milan. It almost happened against Everton when such formation was deployed but luckily for us, everton doesnt have such good attckers.

Again, you may recall that RVP goals normally come from assist from the wings. When we have Gervinho/Ox at one corner and Walcott at the other, RVP prowess is fully utilize. Why cant AW continue with that winnning formation? The secret is that while Gervinho or Ox is dancing with the ball, more defenders shift attention to him leaving RVP all alone, and he scores.

Having said that, I would prefer Benayoun in that midfield formation because he's more versatile and can switch to the wings if required.

All hope is not lost, we must get it right starting on sunday against city.

I pray that arsenal reamin in 3rd position till the end of the season. It is when you really want them to perform that they do disappoint you. Am waitin to see the outcome of arsenal-mancity match

kenkruse: @Jencejide
I cant just find the like button, i could have hit it on your post.

The whole team was poor on the day and that's because the boss has decided to continue playing Ramsey even when he's not inform.

I have noticed that using four midfielders (Song,Rosicky,Arteta,Ramsey) warrants passing the ball to and fro within the middle of the park. This formation is ineffective as it doesnt allow free flow of ball to our attackers. This often result to misplacement of passes. And against a sharp opposing strikers, they prey on us. Recall the humiliation we had AC Milan. It almost happened against Everton when such formation was deployed but luckily for us, everton doesnt have such good attckers.

Again, you may recall that RVP goals normally come from assist from the wings. When we have Gervinho/Ox at one corner and Walcott at the other, RVP prowess is fully utilize. Why cant AW continue with that winnning formation? The secret is that while Gervinho or Ox is dancing with the ball, more defenders shift attention to him leaving RVP all alone, and he scores.

Having said that, I would prefer Benayoun in that midfield formation because he's more versatile and can switch to the wings if required.

All hope is not lost, we must get it right starting on sunday against city.

Thanks sir and i have already hit the like button on ur post

debosky: I'm still waiting to hear what Ramsey did wrong in this game - did any of the goals come about as a result of his mistake? No

The so called better players - when they came on, did they create chances that would've won us the game? No

Please get one thing straight - I'm not saying Ramsey should have started, but no one here has given any concrete reason why he should NOT have started or any specific mistakes he made, or the good moves his replacement made. All I've heard is imaginary stories about Ramsey being 'bad luck'. The same Ramsey that wasn't bad luck against Everton. The same Ramsey that came on and helped us win against Sunderland.

Director of Defence - I hear you about protecting the LB, but which goal came as a result of not protecting the LB? The first came from midfielders and Vermaelen asleep plus Gibbs playing Taraabt onside. Second came from Gibbs pushing up to close down play and Vermaelen making a mistake. Which mistake came from Ramsey?

Instead of blaming Song, Arteta or Rozzi for being AWOL and allowing Diakite to stroll into the box to score, y'all are blaming Ramsey.

The mistakes we made include letting Song's through passes get into his head - he should've been marking Diakite not letting him stroll into the box unchallenged, he should've closed down better to prevent the ball even getting to Taraabt for the first goal.

I'm still waiting to hear the mistakes Ramsey made on Saturday, or the wonders that Gervinho and Ox made when they came on.

Most def i agree with you that song should have been covering for the two center halves whist they were drawn out of position and of course gibbs has a part to share the blame in the second goal as well for drifting way up the pitch meaning verm had to go out left to tackle the striker's run. Good points! But on the premise of overall play, we could have had a more potent threat if an out an out wide man had started that game and surely Ramsey is no flying winger. Mind you the people that came on never made much of an impact given the time they had but had they started, would they not have worn down the qpr defence?

Lets go deeper in analysis.. i am not a fan of stats, as being a player its always after every 90 mins that you can say how well you have done and its the present time and game that counts. What i refer to here is what happened within 90 mins of the qpr game and in my observation, i believe Ramsey was key to how poorly we played as a team. We can say one or two players messed up but look at the way arsenal play and tell me if making slow passes and bad first touches consistently will get us anywhere. Song and verm made mistakes but the question is how often do they have bad days.. Consistency is the reason why we blame ramsey and walcot,, not saying they are useless,but in actula fact if they can string consistent over 80percent performances for about 7 to 8 games in a row, we probably wont be hammering over them like we do evry now and then. and that's what separates average from world class.. Ronaldo and messi have bad days, Barca or Real have bad days, but how often do we see such?

I have hammered on theo and even the English press is always over him, but see what consistency over the past few games have done to him, has he suddenly become a superstar? No! but he has given good percentage performances over a couple of weeks for him to be cut slack in one or two . How many consistent performances have we had from Ramsey this season, injury apart? IMHO, unless AW hates to admit it, Ramsey still needs to go out on loan and gain much valuable playing time and experience. Its a pity he had such a career threatening injury cos i had one as well, but as they say, form is temporary, class is permanent. I am still training for my UNi Alumni games and people still wonder why i dont want to go professional... If we keep making excuses for players then we are not helping them... its either you buckle up and get to that super level or you just keep laying hold of lame excuses that you will get better. I would love to see the lad get better, but he needs to be geared up and not pampered. Arsenal is too big a club for players to be acting baby every time.. Look at ox, aside from playing for Arsenal. everytime at the U21's he is always motivated consistently and never fails to live up to expectation same goes for ryo at bolton, so whats Ramseys excuse? of course you will also notice that Theo has buckled up since ox got into the frame

Maybe its time for Jack to get back and lets see how much playing time Ramsey would get with these kinda performances.

debosky:

Ramsey's negative passes affected us, but Song's 6 out of 7 failed through balls (because of the rubbish Cesc hype) didn't affect us? You lot are grasping at straws. Whose negative passes did not affect us? How many times did Rozzi lose possession and wave his hands instead of tracking back? That didn't affect us?

When Gervinho came on, was he not his so called 'usual' self since the ACN, wasting possession? Did that not affect us too?

Must you find someone else to blame once your 'favourites' are at fault? I bet if it was Ramsey that missed that RVP chance we'd never hear the end of it, or if he made the same mistakes as TV5 did.

We've seen Rozzi playing badly before too - I guess we should bench him for that. Oh what about the darling Song? Did we not see him playing badly before? Now we're not judging by the evidence in front of you, it's what you've 'seen before'. That's the basis of Arsenal fan analysis on NL - excuse the blatant failings of your favourites and just pick on those you dislike.

I guess I can also say I've seen Ramsey 'before' scoring against Sunderland as evidence for supporting his inclusion. Terrible analysis.

You are intentionally over simplifying the issue.
If Ramsey gives 5 consistent performances out of 7, I doubt it if peeps will be on his case. I won't bother to ask you to list six games this season where you could at least say, Ramsey had a good game cos you prolly won't. We can accept TV5's errors anomalies. BTW, from my very first post, I stated that TV5 was to blame for the goals so I still don't get why you keep repeating that obvious fact. The main issue is Ramsey had ANOTHER bad game. Why start him in a 'crucial' away game when he's not been consistent this season?

2. Don't twist issues. When I said "we've seen this before", I meant we've seen Arsene displaying this level of stubborness before so its not new. Denilson, Almunia,Senderous, the list is endless. Even at a point, AW prefered to play Rosicky at LM just so Ramsey could play in the middle. The game in Milan and games before then are not far off.

debosky:
Wow! He won us a free-kick! Fantastic!! You come on for 20+ mins and win a free kick as proof. BTW - Chamakh won us a freekick too, I guess we should have started him too!

Did Theo not win freekicks yesterday against Taiwo?
I guess Theo had the ball to his head when he scored the goal right?

Oxlaide played in midfield for most of the game. My argument is he would have done better on the right against Taiye. His only attempt at playing on the right, he got a freekick. I reiterate, would a player who knows what to do with the ball at his feet have done better against Taiwo? My answer is yes over and over again. Even dudu's love child who I don't rate much tore Taiye to pieces when Taiye came on for Traore against Bolton.
[/quote]
Meanwhile...make whatever you can from this:



More stats: Ramsey leads Arsenal in being dispossessed at 2.9 per game. To put that in context, the next four players below him are RvP, Theo, The Ox, and The Five Heads: all forwards

I am oversimplifying when YOU lot are essentially blaming Ramsey for the loss (despite your watery denials)?

Why start Ramsey in a 'crucial' away game? He started the previous 'crucial' away game and produced a great performance, bar scoring. He gave us the impetus for our comeback in the Sunderland game too. That's two good away game performances in the last three - the only away game he didn't feature in the winning run was against Liverpool, where he was injured.

Instead of your vague claim of inconsistency, I challenge you to rebut his recent performances in away games that I've described above.

If the point is that Ramsey had a bad game, so did Song, Arteta, Gibbs, Vermaelen (worst) and even Rozzi. It is a moot point. In fact one can argue the entire first 11 had a bad game against QPR - yet another moot point.

Unless you are claiming that Ramsey was responsible for the poor performance of the entire team, even with the other 20 mins he didn't play. If that is the case then say so with facts/basis.

Ramsey was dispossessed, so what? Did the goals come from him being dispossessed, or from Song/Arteta being AWOL and nowhere near Diakite?

We'll see where things end up. I remember not too long ago you said Walcott should never start again for Arsenal, yet he's more than delivered since then. Heck, even when he scored you're still arguing against his inclusion, showing your inherent bias.

Let's just leave it there.

Jencejyde: Thanks sir and i have already hit the like button on ur post
But on the premise of overall play, we could have had a more potent threat if an out an out wide man had started that game and surely Ramsey is no flying winger. Mind you the people that came on never made much of an impact given the time they had but had they started, would they not have worn down the qpr defence?

Gervinho came on for 20 mins - what chances did he create on the left? I'm not saying Ramsey is a flying winger, but the flying wingers to replace him made no difference. The entire team was flat, with TV5 being terrible and losing us the points.

Lets go deeper in analysis.. i am not a fan of stats, as being a player its always after every 90 mins that you can say how well you have done and its the present time and game that counts. What i refer to here is what happened within 90 mins of the qpr game and in my observation, i believe Ramsey was key to how poorly we played as a team.

Can you explain why you think this is the case? Why didn't our play accelerate when TWO fast players - Gervinho and Ox were brought on? The entire team was off colour regardless of who was on - that is the crux of the matter.

Deeper analysis shows you that the entire team was off, regardless of who was brought on.

We can say one or two players messed up but look at the way arsenal play and tell me if making slow passes and bad first touches consistently will get us anywhere. Song and verm made mistakes but the question is how often do they have bad days

I am sorry boss, but those 'rare' bad days is the difference between the people who win titles and the also rans. When your big players are 'excused' so casually, you get the situation we're in. The team had an off day in general, which is when you need your defence to be tight to nick you valuable points.

How many consistent performances have we had from Ramsey this season, injury apart? IMHO, unless AW hates to admit it, Ramsey still needs to go out on loan and gain much valuable playing time and experience. Its a pity he had such a career threatening injury cos i had one as well, but as they say, form is temporary, class is permanent.

I am not saying Ramsey has been the most consistent - his performance in the game was ok - not exceptional, just like everyone else!

I would love to see the lad get better, but he needs to be geared up and not pampered. Arsenal is too big a club for players to be acting baby every time..

If Wenger was 'pampering' him, he wouldn't have pulled him off in 70 mins. He is being shown that he needs to improve. However, he wasn't culpable for our defeat. The fact that the team did NOT pick up after he was taken off is sufficient proof of that.

Look at ox, aside from playing for Arsenal. everytime at the U21's he is always motivated consistently and never fails to live up to expectation same goes for ryo at bolton, so whats Ramseys excuse? of course you will also notice that Theo has buckled up since ox got into the frame

Oga J I disagree - Ox's performances have been inconsistent in the past few games - little end product. Young players like Ramsey will have inconsistent performances as they develop so no issues there.

My key issue here is the demonisation of Ramsey over a defeat where he wasn't culpable for any of the main failings - it smacks of scapegoating of the least favourite player, especially when the favourites (TV5 and RVP) failed to deliver.

Yes it was a general poor performance from the team.
RVP can be excused. Take away his goals & lets see where we lie.
TV5 has produced a string of fanstic solid performances(incl winning goals) this term. We have seen the likes of Song, Rosicky, Arteta, Koscielny, sagna and even Benayoun & Ox give in consistent tremendeous performances.

Ramsey I guess, cant boast of 3 good games this season. I'm sure his best will be equal to Arteta's worst.
I really liked how we played when Mr Ramshit was injured not knowing he come back to spoil the fun.

NB smbody needs to get his head out of wenger's butthole. Reminds me of a certain new Zidane & Viera combined, å la Diaby

as much as im not scapegoating the boy, its pretty obvious we play better without him in the team, simple.

he should not be getting more than 10 minute cameos with specific instructions on what to do

I WISH IT WAS A JOKE;

Marouane Chamakh has stressed he sees his future at Arsenal despite increasing speculation that he will be sold in the summer.


After a bright start to his Arsenal career, having joined from Bordeaux on a free transfer in 2010, Chamakh has struggled for form, scoring just once this season.

And, after a photograph of him holding a shisha pipe emerged in Tuesday's press, it has been suggested Arsene Wenger could look to offload the forward.

However, Chamakh told French magazine Onze: "Am I going back to Bordeaux? For now, no. I have spoken to Wenger and I will stay at Arsenal. I think he trusts my work and I will have opportunities in the first team.

"I left Bordeaux to improve as a player and I think I can continue for this club. My agents have been ordered to reject bids that come from other clubs because I want to prove I can be useful for the Gunners."

I remember how Dobolawin used to cream himself over m0r0n Chamakh when everyone was complaining of how much a waste he is

debosky:
My key issue here is the demonisation of Ramsey over a defeat where he wasn't culpable for any of the main failings - it smacks of scapegoating of the least favourite player, especially when the favourites (TV5 and RVP) failed to deliver.

vermaelen's lack of positional discipline ruined arsenal and i hope he doesn't commit the same tactical harakiri
when mancini's men visit this weekend. vermaelen gets attracted to the ball a lot leaving a vacuum. there has to be
a tandem here. if vermaelen decides to chase a lost cause - alex song should be covering the gaping hole vermaelen
leaves behind.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/apr/02/qpr-tactics-arsenal-mark-hughes

debosky:

If the point is that Ramsey had a bad game, so did Song, Arteta, Gibbs, Vermaelen (worst) and even Rozzi. It is a moot point. In fact one can argue the entire first 11 had a bad game against QPR - yet another moot point.

Unless you are claiming that Ramsey was responsible for the poor performance of the entire team, even with the other 20 mins he didn't play. If that is the case then say so with facts/basis.

Ramsey was dispossessed, so what? Did the goals come from him being dispossessed, or from Song/Arteta being AWOL and nowhere near Diakite?

We'll see where things end up. I remember not too long ago you said Walcott should never start again for Arsenal, yet he's more than delivered since then. Heck, even when he scored you're still arguing against his inclusion, showing your inherent bias.

Let's just leave it there.

I agree, let's leave it there but just so you don't misquote me in future again, let me say here that I have not said anything against Walcott's overall performance this season. If anything I have defended Walcott on this thread even when others called for Chamberlain's inclusion ahead of him. My Walcott argument in this case is ONLY as regards the QPR game. I still believe Walcott should have done better against Taiwo (I don't know how many times Ive said this now). Please don't generalise.
Unlike you, I analyse games based on overall performances. If I feel a player could have done better, I will say it. If only Chamakh had listened to my words and not let your frequent hype on NL get into his head, he'l still be scoring for us today . The Vermallen you are castigating today also scored against Everton! For the last time, yes Walcott scored BUT he should have done better!

The only player I have attacked based on his overall performance this season is Ramsey. I have provided my stats to show he was our worst performing midfielder against QPR and you still want stats on his performance in other games? You claim Ramsey had a good game against Everton, then you must be alone on this. ESPN, GOAL, and many of the sites Ive just gone through rated Ramsey lowest of all Arsenal players on that night bar DJ20 and Gervinho (both players played less than 90 mins).You can post your stats too to defend your claim.
Ramsey is an Arsenal player and like every other Arsenal player, I wish him well but at this point, he shouldn't be in our first team.

So until his misplaced passes lead to a goal against us before we agree he shouldn't be in the first team? #itiswell

Abeg make we move on. ManCity is next and I need to save energy for after match celebrations

coogar:

vermaelen's lack of positional discipline ruined arsenal and i hope he doesn't commit the same tactical harakiri
when mancini's men visit this weekend. vermaelen gets attracted to the ball a lot leaving a vacuum. there has to be
a tandem here. if vermaelen decides to chase a lost cause - alex song should be covering the gaping hole vermaelen
leaves behind.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/apr/02/qpr-tactics-arsenal-mark-hughes

I read a similar post this morning and the OP even showed pics of other games where TV5's tactical indiscipline cost us (vs. Barca, vs. Mark Hughes' ManCity, etc). I guess its something they have to work on. Ive seen Kos, Senderous and Djorou do same thing (Kos gets it right most times which is why it isn't yet an issue) so I want to believe its something they do a lot on the training ground. But like you've said, he needs cover just in case it doesn't work especially now that Managers have picked up on it.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/04/02/qpr-v-arsenal-diagrams-and-chalkboards/

Na so Spurs leapfrog us for table because Wenger go play Ramshit against QPR. Don't ask me how I know we would have beaten QPR if Ram hadn't started cos we entered that game with 7 fuckin consecutive wins he had little or nothing to do with

Dipo put a sock in it.

The ball is still entirely in our court - we need to smash the blue scum of the North tomorrow and send the likes of Na$ri and ¢li¢hy on the path to finishing the season trophyless.

Unfortunately I won't be able to watch the game live due to other commitments but rest assured I'll be rooting for my red and white army.

[flash]http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/arsenal-stars-perform-ballet-in-new-citroen-ds5-advert/[/flash]

dipo+:
Na so Spurs leapfrog us for table because Wenger go play Ramshit against QPR. Don't ask me how I know we would have beaten QPR if Ram hadn't started cos we entered that game with 7 fuckin consecutive wins he had little or nothing to do with

Make we move on. Today's match should be exciting. My three prayers for the rest of this season are 1. For us to beat City today, 2. For us to finish above City come May 2012

According to AW, from last week's game, no one is out and no one is in (from the injured players list). My suggested line up for today:

Szczesny
Sagna LK TV Gibbs
Song Arteta
Walcott Rosicky Benayoun
RVP

vermaelen! what a defender....so good he is defending both goal posts

im very disappointed with the first half performance.
firstly im mad at wenger. not because his selection is bad but that its good. so he knows our first eleven and best selection does not include ramsey? that man is crazy.

that said theo walcott will never be a center forward, never. he is so stupid, he ends up central more often than not and promptly disappears behind lescott or kompany or is it hides > mchewww

with the impetus and possession we dont have a goal and always look out of shape when the ball gets to balotelli im surprised we havent gifted them a goal!

we need to buck up our ideas attackwise and get balotelli sent off. i

btw I thot the refs instructions was to get man utd the title? how come balotelli is getting away with murder? smh.

oloriburuku ni ramsey yii olorun.
shey debo don see wetin we dey talk now? the boy is cursed olohun. baskard

this was 90mins of pure aggravation. it was really annoying to watch us struggle to score a goal against a team that was there to be taken. how did they miss that goal that theo setup?

and how did city run out of energy with 20 mins to go? they need ask mancini questions o. crazy game

^


we won goooooood

Arsnal made themselves useful for once

Thank you Ramsey, you just confirmed Debosky's fo0olishness and idiiocy

Thanks Arsenal.

citeh so shit nowadays

Thank God for Victory. To be in a position to fight for top three after our bad start to the season surely deserves thanksgiving!

Good game by the boys today. Only downside for me is RVP not getting a goal. He must be wondering what's gone wrong. First it was TV who blocked his certain goal then the post stopped him from scoring then, Ramsey either didn't see him or just decided to shoot at goal. I pray he scores in the next game. He needs a confidence booster plus I was hoping he would break that 30 EPL goals barrier (4 to go).

Up Next:
Wolves
Wigan
Chelsea
Stoke
Norwich
WBA

Ramsey's shot at the end though . . .

wierdcrazy season.

funny thing is if we had to win a title with that run in we would likely choke and lose it. I hate playing relegation bound teams at the tail end of the season, u r more likely to lose those all the time and we have 3!!!!