newmi:

It is so so pathetic please they need your prayers though they'll find it hard to admit
Jude 1:19
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

Joagbaje:

What else do you expect of these guys? Lets ask few questions

Do they go to church,
Do they have a local assembly of worship
Do they have a pastor
Do they walk in the love of God
Do they know the peron of the holy spirit
Are they filled with the spirit

The answer is No. What else can one expect from such. Thats why they can make a sport of attacking churches.
Jude 1:18-19
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

On your question, it is NOT wrong to pray for peace. That in fact is not the premise here. however, it is clear that we live in the end time and if bible prophecy is anything to go by, wars and rumors of war are part of the signs Christ told us to watch out for. Can we pray our way out of the endtime? Can we "intercede" so as to delay it or cancel it altogether?

Matthew 26:39
39And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Joagbaje:

Blackberry user, maybe you should read my post again. Explained owning the world there. Except religious bunch try to read different meaning into it.

Joagbaje:

1. The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
3. The group is preoccupied with making money.
4. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
5. Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
6. The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).
7. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is
considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
8. The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.
9.the group's leader is not accountable to any authorities T (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).
10. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).
11. The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.
12. Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.
13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members

dare2think:

@ Deep sight,

I think its Joagbaje's  mention of 'economically' is what stirred up some of the criticism. However, to be fair he did mention ', and otherwise'.

Deep Sight:

Honestly, at the risk of sounding like a broken record and being accussed as ever of defending Pastor Agbaje for dubious reasons, I really must comment on this very preposterous thread.

I have said it time without number that the propensity to overly demonize even the most innocuous statements made by Joagbaje is an unhealthy obsession that leads to absurd discussions. I have really struggled to see the purpose or necessity of the strident denunciations here.

The OP was simple enough. A thing that no religious person could in itself denounce. It very simply averred that war seems to be looming, and urged christians to pray against that. I have racked my brain over and over, but I honestly cannot see how other christians would find such a simple statement so terribly offensive. This is the problem with obsession and demonization.

Have a look at Davidylan's comment. He wrote -

In his first line he says that it is not wrong to pray for peace. He then says that since in this instance, the war had been prophesied, then christians ought not pray against it - since these are part of the signs of the endtimes.

This perplexes me on many levels.

x - If a war looms in Nigeria today, would David and Alethia suggest that it would be wrong for christians to pray against it - in light of the fact that we are in the endtimes, and there must be "wars and rumours of wars" as part of endtime prophecy? ? ?

y - I want to assume David and Aleth would not be so sbsurd as to suggest the foregoing. What then could be their problem with a suggetsion that one should pray against a war in another country? ? ? Could it be the identity of that country? Is that country seen as some sort of anti-christ entity? And regardless of the answer to this question, how is prayer against war unchristian? ? ?

Now here comes the real hammer. A post made by Ogajim which in reality, for every open-eyed observer actually nails away the case made by Aleth and David as dead on arrival. He quotes the prayer in gethsamane -

Here we have someone that these folk all believe to be ALMIGHTY GOD himself - praying and seeking a possibility to avert a prophesied event! Jesus plainly said - "my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me. . ." - thereby clearly making a prayer in spite of prophecy.

What this shows is that from the Christian point of view there could be nothing wrong in being prayerful even REGARDING prophesied events, especially when such events entail great suffering. Prayer always helps, no matter what, at least from the christian point of view. Even where an event is the will of God, prayer can termper it and release grace to help the people in their suffering.

All of this has arisen from a simple call to prayer over impending war. That is very sad indeed. What evil could such a post conceivably entail? Nobody is always right and nobody is always wrong. We should not bring our personal prejudices so heavily to bear on such innocent and innocuous posts such as that contained in the OP. 

Joagbaje:

What else do you expect of these guys? Lets ask few questions

Do they go to church,
Do they have a local assembly of worship
Do they have a pastor
Do they walk in the love of God
Do they know the peron of the holy spirit
Are they filled with the spirit

The answer is No. What else can one expect from such. Thats why they can make a sport of attacking churches. [\quote]

I really think these are important questions these folks need to answer to, then we can know what to make out of their posts and the angle from which they are looking at issues. Because this is very important in the light of scriptures.
The Bible talks about  fellowship in Hebrews 10:25.

In Acts 4:23 we see the disciples going to their own company- brethren with whom they had fellowship with. If you study your Bible very well you will see different gatherings and fellowships, the Bible talks about their meeting from house to house.

The Bible talks about order as well. See 1 Cor 12:28- And God hath set some in the church, first, , secondarily, , thirdly,  God is not the author of confusion. The Bible says He gave some, apostle; and some prophets; and some, evangelists; and some pastors and teachers; for,  Eph 4:11

Barr rich:

I don't understand the arguments contained in the various posts with the respect to this call to prayer by Davidylan, Ogajim, Aletheia and Dare2think. I believe there is no basis for these arguments given the intent of the post. It is just a simple call to prayer sent out to christians of this platform.

If you dont think it is necessary to pray about issues, you can hold your own beliefs and don't bring argument to derail the intent of a simple post. Thanks.

dare2think:

@ Deep sight,

I think its Joagbaje's  mention of 'economically' is what stirred up some of the criticism. However, to be fair he did mention ', and otherwise'.

@Joagbaje
What do you mean by blackberry user?

Is that meant to imply anything?

Joagbaje:

Aletheia said I should have thought of women and children. That's very funny. War is between military personels .mDo women and children go to war?

Joagbaje:


The way your post scatter ,it's mostly blackberry post that does that.

dare2think:

How does my post scatter?
I don't use a black-berry.
Is that what necessitated the term 'black-berry user'? How is it relevant to the discussion?
Anyway,

Mr joagbaje, you are claiming to be a victim but you refuse to say anything when Mabel, Azibulia and others attack other personalities on these forum.
That my friend is double-standard.

Joagbaje:

What else do you expect of these guys? Lets ask few questions

Do they go to church,
Do they have a local assembly of worship
Do they have a pastor
Do they walk in the love of God
Do they know the peron of the holy spirit
Are they filled with the spirit

The answer is No. What else can one expect from such. Thats why they can make a sport of attacking churches.

Jude 1:18-19
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

author=dare2think link=topic=825060.msg9783128#msg9783128 date=1324113996]
How does Jesus fit into the Bolded?

@Ms Azibulia

Can you please highlight the fault and contradiction in the definition?

Joagbaje:

Your post lines up on one side most times. I used to experience it before with a bb. No qualms if I'm wrong.

Azibalua:


Read in btw the lines

Joagbaje:

The world already is struggling to come out of economy mess . A war like this will rather lead to more economic chaos.

And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. [Rev 6:4-8]

Joagbaje:

Aletheia said I should have thought of women and children. That's very funny. War is between military personels .mDo women and children go to war? Is it not the economic condition that will affect everybody either children or women. These are part of the manipulations of innocent posts.

Nevertheless hear thou now this word that I speak in thine ears, and in the ears of all the people; The prophets that have been before me and before thee of old prophesied both against many countries, and against great kingdoms, of war, and of evil, and of pestilence. The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the LORD hath truly sent him. [Jer 28:7-9]

Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them, Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place. Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. [Jer 14:13-14]

Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
[Jer 23:16-17]

Joagbaje: This particular war should not be fought at this time. It will have effect on nations. The world has enough trouble to deal with.

But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: [Luk 21:9-10]

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. [Luk 21:25-28]

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
[1Th 5:3]

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy unclothedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. [Rev 3:17-18]

Deep Sight:

^ His response is rather beside the point  - at least as far as the OP is concerned.

Joagbaje:

Frustration  

Deep Sight:

^ His response is rather beside the point  - at least as far as the OP is concerned. There is nothing he has said that proves or shows that it is unchristian to pray against or concerning looming warfare, on the grounds that such warfare represents a fulfillment of prophecy.

Christ himself prayed in Gethsemane in spite of the adverse prophecies lined up against or concerning his prayer.

mabell:

I remember a case in the bible, of a king hezekiah, who a prophet was sent to him to announce his death.
When the prophet left, it was recorded that he turned his face to the wall and cried to God for forgiveness
Before the prophet could go far, God answered and told him to go back and tell the king He ad added extra years to his life
Waoh! What an answer to prayers
( I wouldn't mind if someone assists me with the scriptures)

Same thing still happens today, we as xtians have being called into the ministry of intercession
We pray for governments of the nation, we pray for the economies of countries
We don't do it for personal gain but for the peace of the nations and for the furtherance of the gospel
God can do just about anything when an intercessor prays, situations can be changed for the better
So, the purpose of this thread should be understood
We should be xcited when there is a call for prayer

aletheia:

I 've already indicated what was wrong with the OP; and how any Christian ought to pray in these days.

And read again Christ's prayer in Gethsemane. . .there are certain points therein that escape disobedient children.

Joagbaje:

2 Kings 20:1-2
In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And the prophet Isaiah the son of Amoz came to him, and said unto him, [size=25pt]Thus saith the Lord, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live. 2 Then he turned his face to the wall, and prayed unto the Lord, saying. . . [/size]

Deep Sight:

It does not escape me that he ends his prayer with a submission to the will of God. I doubt that anybody, Pastor Jo inclusive, would not be attentive to that.