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Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by diordaves(m): 5:40pm On Jan 30, 2012
Spyder880, just going through your pix update, and wondering; how much have you spent so far just on water? Do you have your spend for water? Is it possible to update this cost? Access to water on-site is a major issue often overlooked.

Am particular about water access on site and its attendant cost because am about seeing to a small project for the family in my madam's home town in the Asaba - Okpanam - Ogwash axis and got 120K quote just to dig a well. Can it be this expensive to access water or the quote is not reasonable? So is Asaba and its environ also suffer under-ground water access like Enugu?

If any of us is in the Asaba axis, please kindly share your experience with digging a well or borehole.
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by Fhemmmy: 6:12pm On Jan 30, 2012
Oga Spyder, I am not sure if you have done this, but i am yet to see the cost spent so far on this project . . .
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by sixtus4: 6:16pm On Jan 30, 2012
Please spyder update us on the cost aspect of it.
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by Fhemmmy: 7:16pm On Jan 30, 2012
sixtus4:

Please spyder update us on the cost aspect of it.

Waiting to read that too
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by sixtus4: 7:28pm On Jan 30, 2012
we want to know the effect of fuel subsidy,on construction now
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by caseymoney(m): 8:32pm On Jan 30, 2012
^^^ Seconded
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by sixtus4: 8:44pm On Jan 30, 2012
cost of construction of building varies rapidly
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by spyder880(m): 9:15pm On Jan 30, 2012
My people, I just stepped in from the bungalow site, thats where I supervised today, I will attend to all of the above questions as soon as I finish posting pictures of the site setting out for the bungalow thread, will be back guys.
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by sixtus4: 9:17pm On Jan 30, 2012
spyder your apostles are waiting for you
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by Fhemmmy: 9:47pm On Jan 30, 2012
spyder880:

My people, I just stepped in from the bungalow site, thats where I supervised today, I will attend to all of the above questions as soon as I finish posting pictures of the site setting out for the bungalow thread, will be back guys.

Will pay attention to this for sure . . . thanks
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by sixtus4: 10:01pm On Jan 30, 2012
for real
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by Fhemmmy: 11:54pm On Jan 30, 2012
Still checking with one eye to make sure i no miss anything
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by spyder880(m): 12:12am On Jan 31, 2012
sixtus4:

i observed some thing on the staircase,the landing and the dpc.whether staircase or change in level.what happened ?

We are following our build plan, just stay tuned and see how we mount the staircase, all pictures will be here online.
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by spyder880(m): 12:28am On Jan 31, 2012
chidexy:

@ Spyder880, I got a question. First off, I am not knowledgeable in the building department, but I have observed that you had 9 levels of block before the Lintel and 3 already after. I guess one or more block levels will be added before decking, why is this so? Isn't it adding to the total (increased) cost of erecting a building. Is that how it is prescribed in our Nigerian building code.

Compare this to the structures that I have seen outside the country, where the decking is just about 2.5meters from the floor, hence saving on blocks. I would like your view on this (see some attached pictures)

Thank you Chidi,
In Nigeria, buildings are approved by the relevant govt. authorities where the building is sited. It is what was specified in the drawings and approved that we are supposed to build. You have to understand that Nigeria is a tropical country and always hot, you cannot compare the height of our structures to that in the temperate regions because while they should build small to keep the house warm, (small windows and airtight shutters) we should build bigger and taller because we want ventilation. Please factor NEPA and their constant power supply cheesy into the mix and you see why we must raise our blocks higher.

However those pictures you showed looks like the blocks are more that 9'' tall?
If so, their houses will be taller than ours, and I see very minimum use of chalking mortar (cement) between these blocks, are they fixed in any other way, can we copy this technology people?

1 Like

Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by spyder880(m): 12:35am On Jan 31, 2012
diordaves:

Spyder880, just going through your pix update, and wondering; how much have you spent so far just on water? Do you have your spend for water? Is it possible to update this cost? Access to water on-site is a major issue often overlooked.

Am particular about water access on site and its attendant cost because am about seeing to a small project for the family in my madam's home town in the Asaba - Okpanam - Ogwash axis and got 120K quote just to dig a well. Can it be this expensive to access water or the quote is not reasonable? So is Asaba and its environ also suffer under-ground water access like Enugu?

If any of us is in the Asaba axis, please kindly share your experience with digging a well or borehole.

I am sure we have spent close to N50k to buy water from tankers, this is aside the cost of around N50k to buy a new plastic tank for the site, or the cost of hiring additional tanks to store more water. We have also spent around N30k on the well whis is ongoing beside the site, we thought we could get water and then stop buying from tankers but all to no avail as water has been elusive in this well, just very small water coming out and the well diggers has jammed a rock 22 feet underground, they have been chiseling this rock to get past it since the past 6 days. We believe they will find water before 30 feet.

Total spend for water related issues in this project should be in the region of N 140k
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by spyder880(m): 12:40am On Jan 31, 2012
sixtus4:

we want to know the effect of fuel subsidy,on construction now

The subsidy wahala didn't do much harm, slight uptrend in prices of some materials and labour. Maybe the impact has not fully hit us yet. Blocks still same price from last year, same as sand, gravel (cheaper) and wood. Cement and rods added prices.
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by caseymoney(m): 12:53am On Jan 31, 2012
Good to know. More update pls.
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by Fhemmmy: 3:19am On Jan 31, 2012
Following this thread with all energy and both eyes open
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by sixtus4: 3:28am On Jan 31, 2012
All eyes open!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by diordaves(m): 7:33am On Jan 31, 2012
spyder880:

I am sure we have spent close to N50k to buy water from tankers, this is aside the cost of around N50k to buy a new plastic tank for the site, or the cost of hiring additional tanks to store more water. We have also spent around N30k on the well whis is ongoing beside the site, we thought we could get water and then stop buying from tankers but all to no avail as water has been elusive in this well, just very small water coming out and the well diggers has jammed a rock 22 feet underground, they have been chiseling this rock to get past it since the past 6 days. We believe they will find water before 30 feet.

Total spend for water related issues in this project should be in the region of N 140k

N140K for water and still counting! Good thing your client is so resourced to meet this challenged. If not well thought out, water access can frustrates a good project like this. Well done
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by spyder880(m): 10:36am On Jan 31, 2012
^^^^ well, its only about N50k that is the real cash spent for water so far as Enugu urban has high cost of water (most water comes from Ninth mile) . Out of this N50k, it includes about 4 tankers used to wet the foundation @ 6k each tanker plus water for German floor slab and foundation, the rest money cannot be said to be real water expenses as both the well being sunk and the plastic tank will outlive this project and be used in this house even after completion.
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by chidexy(m): 10:44am On Jan 31, 2012
spyder880:

Thank you Chidi,

However those pictures you showed looks like the blocks are more that 9'' tall?
If so, their houses will be taller than ours, and I see very minimum use of chalking mortar (cement) between these blocks, are they fixed in any other way, can we copy this technology people?

Your explanation makes sense, though since most of the buildings are fitted with A/C, I think in the long run, we might be saving on energy/cooling cost with decreased volume.

On the blocks, they use autoclave aerated concrete blocks. Popular brands are YTONG, H+H, Silka etc. They are very light weight (a 5 year old child can lift a block easily) but very strong and durable. The blocks are equally profiled, so it fits (you'll see the profile and how it fits in the video), hence very minimal chalking mortar is needed. I have enclosed 2 links (video) of its use in building (1st link) and production (2nd). You may not understand what they are saying (in German) but it's pretty straight forward). The links are:

http://www.bv-porenbeton.de/video/Verarbeitung/index.html

http://www.bv-porenbeton.de/video/Herstellung/index.html

1 Like

Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by spyder880(m): 10:57am On Jan 31, 2012
^^^ thank you Chidexy, will look at the video when I get home.
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by diordaves(m): 1:17pm On Jan 31, 2012
chidexy:

Your explanation makes sense, though since most of the buildings are fitted with A/C, I think in the long run, we might be saving on energy/cooling cost with decreased volume.

On the blocks, they use autoclave aerated concrete blocks. Popular brands are YTONG, H+H, Silka etc. They are very light weight (a 5 year old child can lift a block easily) but very strong and durable. The blocks are equally profiled, so it fits (you'll see the profile and how it fits in the video), hence very minimal chalking mortar is needed. I have enclosed 2 links (video) of its use in building (1st link) and production (2nd). You may not understand what they are saying (in German) but it's pretty straight forward). The links are:

http://www.bv-porenbeton.de/video/Verarbeitung/index.html

http://www.bv-porenbeton.de/video/Herstellung/index.html

Nice one Chidexy. It should be noticed that this block system has almost eliminated the need for cement and sand mortar. One only needs mortar for the first (base) course and then a specific manufacturer adhesive to bond the blocks as shown. Impressive! Again, from the production video, the block comprises 80% air which makes its very light and cuts easily.

To build affordable houses in Nigeria, this should be our direction of travel. The building industry in Nigeria is too dependent on dated stagnant building methods which are wasteful and costly eg (our method of chalking block: bonding), time consuming and also on cement and sand, with cement manufacturers holding the rest of us to ransom. For example, to build a parapet for a moderate house is in the region of one million Naira for something that is not structurally necessary but aesthetic. Here in the UK, US or Canada, you buy your parapet, quoin, cladding bricks, window surround sill and cill etc ready made, very light and you just stick it on with manufacturer adhesive just like in the video. With this ready made approach, for a four flat project, you can build your parapet, quoin, surround window sill in one day. No joke. You don't need cement or sand. Though for brick slips, you will need minimal cement and sand mortar for pointing.

So the opportunities are presenting themselves for those of us that want to do properties in Nigeria. The opportunity not only lies in building brick and mortar and renting/sale, their is even a bigger opportunity in the construction method( improved) and cheaper alternative building materials (NOT SUBSTANDARD PLEASE). It is worth looking into this segment in the value chain to identify positive investment nodes.

Chidexy, your work is not complete o! How much is the block and size so that we can do some comparative analysis.

1 Like

Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by Fhemmmy: 2:42pm On Jan 31, 2012
Back for more learning
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by chidexy(m): 4:17pm On Jan 31, 2012
diordaves:



Chidexy, your work is not complete o! How much is the block and size so that we can do some comparative analysis.



@diordaves,

searched around and was able to get the following dimensions:
Length = 332/399/499/599/624 mm
Height = 199/249 mm
Width = 175/240/300/365 mm

As for the price, a pack/pallet of blocks with dimension (L,H,W) 50cm, 20cm and 24cm goes for roughly 150 euros (In Germany). A pallet contains about 42-50 blocks. So do the conversion and calculations by yourself and see if it's economical (though economics of scale will play a part if it becomes a government policy or part of our building code)

1 Like

Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by chidexy(m): 5:24pm On Jan 31, 2012
Hello Folks,

Found this video on the Ytong blocks mentioned earlier - in English

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/W0U24K7Yxac?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/C5Hs14dVjpg?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by chidexy(m): 5:31pm On Jan 31, 2012
[url=http://www.youtube.com/embed/W0U24K7Yxac?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>]<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/W0U24K7Yxac?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/url]
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by Demainman1: 5:49pm On Jan 31, 2012
^^^^^ I do see a problem with this type of blocks. Most importantly acoustic issue, with them unble to stop voices passing through like you have in the type of blocks we use in naija. I know that abroad, the partitioning of rooms with these type of material will mean that whatever is happening in one room will be heard by someone in an adjacent room. I hate it!

Also, doesn't it mean that because they are very lightweight they can easily be cut through with a saw or hammer in the case that they are used for fencing for example.

Also, i see that the picture you showed us do not have any pillar or lintel. Will this block be able to carry naija type of decking?

At €3 or N600 per block. it's not cheap at all.
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by chidexy(m): 7:19pm On Jan 31, 2012
Demain_man:

^^^^^ I do see a problem with this type of blocks. Most importantly acoustic issue, with them unble to stop voices passing through like you have in the type of blocks we use in naija. I know that abroad, the partitioning of rooms with these type of material will mean that whatever is happening in one room will be heard by someone in an adjacent room. I hate it!

Also, doesn't it mean that because they are very lightweight they can easily be cut through with a saw or hammer in the case that they are used for fencing for example.

Also, i see that the picture you showed us do not have any pillar or lintel. Will this block be able to carry naija type of decking?

At €3 or N600 per block. it's not cheap at all.

Don't know about the acoustic issue, but from my experience, houses here are almost "sealed" and sounds from one room don't get carried over to the adjoining rooms. Don't forget that it has to be plastered over.

The cost includes the subsisting 20% VAT on all products on sale in the country. Should someone go into partnership and sale of the product in large quantity then the cost won't be up to that. And even if it sales at the price, what about the savings from labour cost and mortar?

The best option would be if an investor can bring the company into Nigeria and produce here
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by Fhemmmy: 2:43pm On Feb 01, 2012
Here to learn more
Re: Building A Large Duplex In Enugu by mahabone(m): 8:14pm On Feb 01, 2012
So all this grammer una dey blow here is merely to convince us to start importing blocks abi?
NA WAO!

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