ishmael: What pains me most is the fact that this HND holders are made to do PGD before doing any Masters course. And it has never been recorded that they performed poorly in these programs. And yet some bias people will come out and condemn the poly HND graduates that they are not graduates. If they are not graduates why are they admitted into PGD programs? Is PGD not a postgraduate qualification that is higher than a bachelor's degree? Funny enough in some countries like UK, US, Canada, Ukraine, etc, they allow holders of nigerian HND with good grades to do a Masters program directly without having to do a PGD first. Nigerian government should begin to invest more on technical/technological education as that is what the country needs at the moment for positive growth and development. The university system has failed the nation in the areas of research & development as well as churnning out low quality degree holders who will always hide behind the certificate mentality thing to get a job.

x-fire:

Your write up shows an intense and deep bitterness and anger against Nigerian university graduates for no just cause. No hard feelings but a lot of bitter words vented against uni graduates by HND holders arise as a result of inferiority complex. In many cases and arguments that always arise, the poly graduates always start the debate. Even when I was serving, it was the HND holders that always (always and always) start the endless debate.
My own advice is that never you allow your degree, your class of degree, your type of degree, or course, etc to stop you from achieving your dreams. Look beyond the limitations and rise above it.
I have met many unsound uni graduates. I gave met many unsound poly graduates. I have met a few good HND holders. You, and not your certificate determine your future.

ishmael: Mr man, u've not been following this thread the way i see it. I have studied in both institutions before. I have ND, HND from the polytechnic, and Bsc from the university. I'm talking from experience in my own field, not based on assumption. Little emphasis should be placed on certificates, and more shovld be placed on skills, knowledge and experience. This should be the yardstick for assessing graduates for further studies and employment. All i am saying here is that the undue advantage given to uni graduates should be stopped, and a level playing ground given to all graduates (HND & Bsc). More so, it is not possible that all HND holders are better than all Bsc holders, and all Bsc holders cannot be better than all HND holders. If we all believe this then we all will agree that equal opportunity should be given to all (both HND & Bsc) at all times. Finally inferiority complex does not lead to debates like this, rather a feeling of injustice against the HND holders make them cry out aloud, may be they could be heard and listened to. Inferiority complex can only be displayed by those who think they are not what they are suppose to be, may be because of insufficient training, skills and experience; and because they feel they are not competent enough. You also talked about showing hatred for uni graduates. That's very funny. I am also a uni graduate with good grades, so why should i show hatred to people that have what i have too? I'm only trying to be an unbiased and fair umpire. Please try and read my previous posts on this topic. Thanx for ur contributions.

x-fire:

The basis of training BSc and HND graduates is quite different. We all know that. One should be more theoretically inclined while the other should be more practically inclined. For instance, the requirement for entry level in HND is 4 credits unlike BSc which is 5 credits. Also, there is also a wide gap in qualifications of lecturers in both institutions. For instance, I know corp members who taught in federal polytechnics and colleges of education during their service year. This can not happen in a university (at least I am yet to hear of any). Also, the universities boast of good number of PhD holders and professors. In most cases, lecturers in polytechnic have masters degree at the very best. In some cases, the only PhD holder some polytechnics can boast of is their rector!!!! Thus, eventhough the level of research in Nigeria is below par, in comparative analysis, you can't compare the level of research and academic breakthrough in a university with that of a polytechnic.
Apart from this, the brightest students go the universities, meaning that universities are generally more competitive. This increases your exposure Competition also has a way of fostering self-development.
Granted, the standard of education in Nigeria is low. But on a general note, an average federal university in Nigeria has a higher standard than an average federal polytechnic. Same for the state universities and polytechnic.
On a personal note, I have met VERY MANY good university graduates but I have interacted with only few sound polytechnic graduates. I think it all boils down to level of exposure, inferioriy complex and lack of self development.

ishmael: Let's get it straight. Stats method gives u the stats concept needed to do stats analyses. Its concepts are applied to solving problems in industrial stats and quality control. Topics in industrial stats includes process/product control, control chart techniques, acceptance sampling, inventory, etc. Statistical computing on the other hand is different from statistics lab practicals where u use packages such as spss, minitab, excel, etc for stats analysis. It is the interface between computer science and statistics. It teaches u how to develop ur own algorithm and programs to solve mathematical and statistical problems. It includes topics like random numbers & simulation, numerical methods of solving eqns, numerical linear algebra, kernel density functions, and algorithms & programming. In statistical computing, the algorithm and programming you do is mathematical using programming languages like Fortran, pascal, c++, matlab, sas, stata, etc.

tanimola22: [b][/b]

Hi,

Thank you for breaking things down. In my class, we did not do the highlighted (Fotran and Pascal) because we thought they were just too antidulivian. The others were learnt and known.

And we built algorithm and wrote codes and did many more of the things you stated..

Thanks though...

T22.

Nadoson: Mr X-fire. Ur talkin as if ur in dispute wit HND grads. Let me educate u smal, graduaitn 4rm a uni doznt min dat ur good. Do u knw dat educationl system in Poly is mor stressful & ellaborated 2 versitys?. 4 instanc, year 1 & 2 stdnts of uni uz 2 do secondary schl courses yl Poly wil introduc u 2 a new & advanc cours durin ur year 1.
*Anoda, wen i woz in CAD & CAM / ROBOTICS LAB in a poly, cud u blv dat d lectura who also uz 2 teach in 1 of d versitys says he mentiond of CNC MACHINE in d versity engineern depatmt & no 1 undstds wot he meant by CNC.
X-fire, do u tink dt u cn stand or compete a poly grad. Evin in ur field? NO, Dia r brighta 1ns in both institutn & rmba dat CERTIFICATE is odnary paper 2 compare 2 wot u cn do 2 b creative or inovative.
* Anoda zmpl, wen i woz on (IT) @ 7up comp. in dia engrin dpmt, i wokd wit ol d machines witout a supevisor bt cud u blv dt a guy 4rm versity den 4rm d same field cud nt defend himsef as an engnr & waz snt away cos of his lack of skills. So my broda dnt discriminate rada try 2 knw wot ur bin traind 4. Dnt take it dat i stopd as a HND hoda.

Nadoson: Mr X-fire. Ur talkin as if ur in dispute wit HND grads. Let me educate u smal, graduaitn 4rm a uni doznt min dat ur good. Do u knw dat educationl system in Poly is mor stressful & ellaborated 2 versitys?. 4 instanc, year 1 & 2 stdnts of uni uz 2 do secondary schl courses yl Poly wil introduc u 2 a new & advanc cours durin ur year 1.
*Anoda, wen i woz in CAD & CAM / ROBOTICS LAB in a poly, cud u blv dat d lectura who also uz 2 teach in 1 of d versitys says he mentiond of CNC MACHINE in d versity engineern depatmt & no 1 undstds wot he meant by CNC.
X-fire, do u tink dt u cn stand or compete a poly grad. Evin in ur field? NO, Dia r brighta 1ns in both institutn & rmba dat CERTIFICATE is odnary paper 2 compare 2 wot u cn do 2 b creative or inovative.
* Anoda zmpl, wen i woz on (IT) @ 7up comp. in dia engrin dpmt, i wokd wit ol d machines witout a supevisor bt cud u blv dt a guy 4rm versity den 4rm d same field cud nt defend himsef as an engnr & waz snt away cos of his lack of skills. So my broda dnt discriminate rada try 2 knw wot ur bin traind 4. Dnt take it dat i stopd as a HND hoda.

hassymo5: GUY, Bleep BSC, IM HND HOLDER, THAT WONT STOP ME FROM ACHIEVING NY AIM..... WHAT YOU GONNA BE U GONNA BE WEATHER BSC OR HND OR EVEN ND, OND, CERT, FORGET, I DEY WITH MA HND WILL GO 4 PDG, MSC, PHD, Bleep BSC, IM GONNA MAKE IT WITHOUT A BSC, MOST OF OUR POLITICIANS ARE NOT BSC HOLDERS, OBJ WAS NOT A BSC HOLDER, SOME GOVERNORS ARE NOT BSC HOLDERS, GUYS WEATHER BSC OR HND SEEK FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD ANY ANY OTHER THING WILL BE GIVEN TO YOU, I SEEK GOD AND HE GAVE A JOB AT NVRI ALOT OF BSC HOLDERS DEY MA AREAS BUT GOD CHOOSE ME FOR THE JOB, BSC AND HND Bleep THEM, WE CANNOT ALL BE DOCTORS, NURSES, ENGINEERS, ACCOUNTANTS, OUR CHIEF ACCOUNTANT IS A HND HOLDER SO WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM, AS FOR ME I THANK GOD FOR MY HND AND I REMAIN GREATFUL!!!!

cruxifixo: let me add an interesting dimension. do you know that if you go the route of HND, MSC, PhD u can never be aaccepted to lecture in a Nigeria university because of that HND.

As you can see, there are certain jobs you cannot get in Nigeria, even with your PhD.

My advice? dump or convert that HND to Bsc as soon as you can.

Dereformer: Let me start by saying, I'm an Hnd holder. Having gone through posts on this forum where some of my fellow Hnd holders bemoan their fate in the in the labour market, I cannot but say, upgrade what u currently have by enrolling into a university of your choice for a part-time Bsc program. Whether you go ahead to get PGD, MSC or professional qualification such as ACA, ACCA, CISA, COREN, CITN, etc, the discrimination will still be there without a Bsc certification. Even with my HND(Distinction) Acct, ACA, i find it difficult to believe that many organisations will publish vacancy requiring only university degree. Folks, we have to get this Bsc. Even though at my age (37) I should have obtained an MSC and one or two more professional qualifications; but i have made up my mind to go for a Bsc come next year 2013. Some universities will start you from 200 level, while some like IMSU will give 300 level. Plsease, be encouraged. Responses are encouraged.

Dereformer: Let me start by saying, I'm an Hnd holder. Having gone through posts on this forum where some of my fellow Hnd holders bemoan their fate in the in the labour market, I cannot but say, upgrade what u currently have by enrolling into a university of your choice for a part-time Bsc program. Whether you go ahead to get PGD, MSC or professional qualification such as ACA, ACCA, CISA, COREN, CITN, etc, the discrimination will still be there without a Bsc certification. Even with my HND(Distinction) Acct, ACA, i find it difficult to believe that many organisations will publish vacancy requiring only university degree. Folks, we have to get this Bsc. Even though at my age (37) I should have obtained an MSC and one or two more professional qualifications; but i have made up my mind to go for a Bsc come next year 2013. Some universities will start you from 200 level, while some like IMSU will give 300 level. Plsease, be encouraged. Responses are encouraged.

Dereformer:
Let me start by saying, I'm an Hnd holder. Having gone through posts on this forum where some of my fellow Hnd holders bemoan their fate in the in the labour market, I cannot but say, upgrade what u currently have by enrolling into a university of your choice for a part-time Bsc program. Whether you go ahead to get PGD, MSC or professional qualification such as ACA, ACCA, CISA, COREN, CITN, etc, the discrimination will still be there without a Bsc certification. Even with my HND(Distinction) Acct, ACA, i find it difficult to believe that many organisations will publish vacancy requiring only university degree. Folks, we have to get this Bsc. Even though at my age (37) I should have obtained an MSC and one or two more professional qualifications; but i have made up my mind to go for a Bsc come next year 2013. Some universities will start you from 200 level, while some like IMSU will give 300 level. Plsease, be encouraged. Responses are encouraged.

Nadoson:
T22, try 2 undstnd me, i dint say dt d guy shud stop huntin, i was tryin 2 emphasis dt 72% of implymnt nw in niga is WHOM U KNW. nt by cert.

emmygr8:
[i][/i]






don't be bothered by What type of qualifications you have got, rather be bothered with making the most out of it!
people with 0- levels are controlling millions and someone is here thinking of Bsc.
I advice you better start thinking of money!

cruxifixo:
let me add an interesting dimension. do you know that if you go the route of HND, MSC, PhD u can never be aaccepted to lecture in a Nigeria university because of that HND.

As you can see, there are certain jobs you cannot get in Nigeria, even with your PhD.

My advice? dump or convert that HND to Bsc as soon as you can.

Olayiwola124:
Is it advisable to go for one year convertion of HND to BSC programme at a private university which is SOUTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY oku-owa Ogun state. Though the skul ws accredited by NUC but my bothering is 'Will govt universities such as U.I, UNILAG, LASU nd others recognise d certificate given by dat university {southwestern university} for Masters prog in their skul!

jbadmus:

Good analysis from you bro.You do have an indept understanding of this HND-B.SC upgrade or dichotomy stuff.I have read a lot of your insightful posts on polytechnic education vis-a-vis HND-B.SC dichotomy. I want to know whether you have gone for your B.SC.

kayusbrown:


Our educational system is not dynamic as what is obtainable in saner climes. One of the sickening policy of NUC as regards university education is that an undergraduate must spend nothing less than 3years in a university to obtain a bachelor's degree. This is why you'll be placed in 200level of a four-year bachelor's degree programme when you gain admission through direct entry with your HND. Should there be sincerity of purpose in our policy making, credit transfer as obtainable in saner climes would have been the norm in direct entry admission in which case obtaining a bachelors degree after HND in the same course of study wouldn't take more than 6-months (after comparing courses passed at ND and HND level with all registrable courses for bachelors degree, the difference is what will be left to study). This is why it will only take you 1year to obtain a top-up degree in the UK with either your HND or ND.

To answer your question directly, the bachelor's degree obtained from such programme will not be recognized in Nigeria because the programme violates the 'minimum of 3-years' standard. No one will listen to the voice of reason. When you apply for postgraduate studies in any of the federal universities you mentioned above after the degree programme, they will ask for your academic transcript and that's where they'll point to this retrogressive 3-year policy. You will however be able to secure master's degree admission abroad because even with your ND+HND, most universities in the US and Canada will admit you directly for masters if after evalution, your ND+HND is determined to be equivalent to US bachelor's degree (there are testimonies by people who got admitted directly for masters with their ND+HND in the US, Germany and Canada).

Kwara State University and University of Port-Harcourt have similar programmes but theirs is about 3years, which is in tandem with NUC policy. They run the programme on part-time which gives it an edge over full-time direct entry of same duration. National Open University of Nigeria is another option though their programme also lasts for 3-years.

In essence, I won't advise you to go and obtain a 1-year B.Sc. that will subject you to another form of discrimination (it will be termed a mediocre degree ).