ooman:
its called cladogenesis, we actually witness evolution in nature and in the lab

@bold- I laugh in my native language, you know why?
When a theist or pagan say something you atheist we ask for evidence i.e video, picture e.t.c. So the evolution you people performed in the lab can not be record and play for everyone to see.

Please help me point out just one thing that has experienced evolution since you were born.

I didnt run away, i simply left, you were being unreasonable

You ran away because you don't have fact to support your claims go and see how your fellow brother's are disgracing themselves.

^^your ignorance is alarming

get a documentary dvd and watch

kambo: the book i read said "in the beginning God made the heavens and the earth", Gen1 vs 1.
you want to grab those hogwashes that try to tell me , nothing ,after a lot of scientific jargon,
and postulations and theorizing , produced something!!!
.
fact is none of the sceintists who makes these assumptions was there.
at a point , they have to base their theories on unfounded conclusions - on faith. faith
that excludes God.

There's nothing to teach.
nothing CANNOT create something.

For the existence of the universe, something must have been created from nothing - either it is a God or Gods, or the big bang.

Then in quantum physics, something can be created from nothing and is still being created from nothing.
In a quantum vacuum, virtual particles are being created and disappears again. matter and antimatter appears into existence in a vacuum and can come together again producing nothing.

IN THE BEGINNING WAS ENERGY, ALL THERE IS ENERGY AND ALL THERE EVER BE WOULD BE IS ENERGY.

Every thing in the universe is energy. Matter is an expression of that energy, The patterns of a sand dune, an ice Crystal, DNA are all different expressions of the same energy, even space itself is an expression of the energy.

[quote author=wirinet]

In a quantum vacuum, virtual particles are being created and disappears again. matter and antimatter appears into existence in a vacuum and can come together again producing nothing.

Why won't it disappear, because you know if they ask for the evidence you will claim it has disappeared again.

IN THE BEGINNING WAS ENERGY, ALL THERE IS ENERGY AND ALL THERE EVER BE WOULD BE IS ENERGY.

Is a lie, universe contains INFORMATION which doesn't depend on ENERGY.
These are the three major foundamental entities that make up nature:
1) Mass (Physical)
2) Energy (Force)
3) Information (Spirit)

Nature doesn't contain only matters (mass and energy) as atheist do claim.

DNA are all different expressions of the same energy

DNA contains informations go and read more about DNA code.

Stop preaching false message.

^^^how exactly does dna CONTAIN information?

dna is information itself

ooman: ^^^how exactly does dna CONTAIN information?
dna is information itself

Anyhow you put it. For you to believe DNA is information itself make me conclude you don't know your stand as atheist and you know the nitty-gritty of the point because that's why you run away from "Information: evidence for a creator" thread.

Emusan:

Anyhow you put it. For you to believe DNA is information itself make me conclude you don't know your stand as atheist and you know the nitty-gritty of the point because that's why you run away from "Information: evidence for a creator" thread.

am still on that thread.

engage me again on that thread and we will pick up where we stopped

Emusan: Why won't it disappear, because you know if they ask for the evidence you will claim it has disappeared again.

Please pick up a book on quantum mechanics or better still google particles colliders experiments. These theories were not formulated, they are actually the results of experiments.

Emusan: Is a lie, universe contains INFORMATION which doesn't depend on ENERGY.
These are the three major foundamental entities that make up nature:
1) Mass (Physical)
2) Energy (Force)
3) Information (Spirit)

Nature doesn't contain only matters (mass and energy) as atheist do claim.

Please define information. what do you understand by information.
information is simply a pattern of energy that is transferable from one point to another or from one medium to another.

All you three fundamental entities of nature are all energy. Einstein had already proven close to a century ago that E =MC2. I hope you know what that implies; that mass and energy is interchangeable.

The DNA is simply a pattern of molecules that allows self replication. The same energy that allows the sand dune to arrange its patterns is the same energy that allows the molecules to arrange itself into the unique DNA pattern.

kambo: the book i read said "in the beginning God made the heavens and the earth", Gen1 vs 1.
you want to grab those hogwashes that try to tell me , nothing ,after a lot of scientific jargon,
and postulations and theorizing , produced something!!!
.
fact is none of the sceintists who makes these assumptions was there.
at a point , they have to base their theories on unfounded conclusions - on faith. faith
that excludes God.

There's nothing to teach.
nothing CANNOT create something.

Leave this foolish ooman alone....there idiocy will surely come to a climax.....its just a matter of time.........

Ask him what is that .something that created other somethings he starts running around like a FOOL.......

Smh!!!!!......

All atheists ona go tire one day.........

ijawkid:

Leave this foolish ooman alone....there idiocy will surely come to a climax.....its just a matter of time.........

Ask him what is that .something that created other somethings he starts running around like a FOOL.......

Smh!!!!!......

All atheists ona go tire one day.........

you have problems with me?

i believe we're making progress. First i'm not any where near a scientist. Never read physics,chem in school. So its logic were debatg here. And this is rightly so because knowledge of God is simple enuff for any one to grasp. @Wirinet : ur argument is wrng. You say in a lab , in a vacumm, matter was created! But u temper it by refering to energy . With d insinuanation dat energy always existed!. Which still boils down to d existence of pre-existent matter. Inadmissible. This is a premise you are trying to push as a fact. As illogical as it is you want to sell this point. In the beginning there was pre-existent matter. Which by (accident) created the earth and the orderly universe , with a sun large enuff to warm earth, and by chance d planet not too far from d sun to freeze and not near to burn contained life and man, and by chance man evolved from apes and the chance only created 2 classes of man types: male and females, and oddly by chance this class of beings hav always been religious.. Oops how did matter create God seekg beings. Sorry this is too chancey. The so call'd matter created in d lab occured at d instigation of others and still required matter (energy). Which still proves, nothing cannot create somthing. Which means at the root intellectual atheism/evolution hinges on a belief on the un provable. So y d bother with tryg to appear all prim and logical? On d issue of God. You atheists r tryg to Define his properties. In a human way. Your definition goes: if God created all things, then who created God? First, if God is a created being, he is not all powerful as He wud b subject to his Maker. And his Maker wud b subject to his Maker ad infinitum. It wud b a recursive infinite spiral if God were an originated being. On d hand if matter created God,(very flawed logic) ,senseless materiality wud b creatg intelligence. And God wud b a material entity veriable by a physical search. Either using advanced tools or our five senses. Inadmissible and grossly illogical. The properties of God, as stated in d bible says , he is before time, he is infinite in wisdom, knowledge, power. He has no beginning and no end. You atheists believe not this because it lacks any physical parallel.

wirinet: The core argument of theists for the existence of a God (intelligent designer) is that nature is to complex to come about as a result of mere chance. They point to the complexity of the DNA and the human body as a whole as evidence of design. The seemingly perfect and complex patterns in nature is evidence of an intelligent designer. They ascribe impossible probability to these patterns occurring by chance. Now I want to examine 4 natural phenomena and see if they could happen by chance or it must be designed by an intelligent designer.

1. A sand dune
A sand dune is sand heaped together as a result of the action of wind. It exhibits various complex patterns lines and shapes, in fact it could be considered the works of a very creative artist.

2. A galaxy
There are over a hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe, and although there a few basic shapes, each galaxy has its own unique pattern. Stars are arranged in a complex array of patterns. Does it require a designer or the patterns happened by chance.

3. The rings of Saturn.
There are few objects in space that is more beautiful than Saturn and this is due to its alluring rings. The rings of Saturn is made up of millions of small chunks of dry ice. It is situated in a very narrow belt around the equator. It has very beautiful precise patterns and colours in concentric rings at precise distances from the centre. Does this pattern need a designer or it can happen by pure chance after billions of years.

4. Ice crystals.

Ice crystals as represented by snow flakes as innocuous as they look presents one of the most varied and beautiful patterns in nature. They come in various beautiful patterns and shaped and is such that no two patterns are identical. The only theme running in the patterns is that they are all hexagonal in shape. Now does the shape of each ice crystal require a designer?

These are just 4 examples of the millions of seemingly designed patterns in the universe. Everything in the universe manifests as patterns, the atom is a pattern of neucleons and electrons, the difference between atoms is in the arrangements and patterns. Same for elements and compounds. Life is just a pattern of molecules that allows self duplication. So does the pattern of molecules that permits self duplication (life) require an Intelligent designer or it could happen by chance after trillions and trillions of trials.

Let's hear the arguments of both sides of the divide.

@wirinet the core argument of theist is that, complex coordinated systems dnt occur by chance. All complex systems ar made then they operate. The fact that d maker of d system isnt identified doesnt make a system a chance accident. An example of a watch on a beach is often used. A man strolling on a beach picks up a lost watch. He doesnt know who owns d watch but he knows it is crafted. A complex pattern cud occur by "chance" e.g clouds moves by wind form decent shapes. Nature and d world , the homan body is a complex system, a computer is a system, a car is a system, a themometer, a blackberry ar all systems. Is there any possibility of a bb phone or themometer being constructed by chance? I mean u place all d components jiggle them together and u get a z10? No complex man made system occurs by random blind chance hence man which is much more complex and the world cudnt be a chance design. Continuous erosion of rock by water creates some patterns over a very long time. Plants create some funny artworks with their branches but these are not systems just patterns.

wirinet:
Please pick up a book on quantum mechanics or better still google particles colliders experiments. These theories were not formulated, they are actually the results of experiments.

You said I should pick a book, when you were told God exist you request for an evidence they gave you Bible you said Bible is a myths Greek's book yet you want me to adhere to your own prove through a BOOK.

Please define information. what do you understand by information.
information is simply a pattern of energy that is transferable from one point to another or from one medium to another.

Information can be define as a Code(syntax) that has a Meaning for Expected Action to carry out Intended purpose. And these four keys words are the attributes of information. If anything lack one or found outside these four attributes in not regard as information.
@bold- Purely lie! Information is more than patterns but a complex and meaningful code generated from intelligent source i.e software, you can see how complex, meaningful, and tidious the codes are and arrange in orders.

All you three fundamental entities of nature are all energy. Einstein had already proven close to a century ago that E =MC2. I hope you know what that implies; that mass and energy is interchangeable.

First of all, for you to agree that nature consists three entities disprove your believe (atheism) because atheist believe nature compose only matters(mass/energy).

"Information can stand or exist without energy". Example; your computer.
Hardware (mass)
Software(information/spirit)
Battery(energy), so if you remove the battery it doesn't have effect on the software i.e erase the software.

The DNA is simply a pattern of molecules that allows self replication. The same energy that allows the sand dune to arrange its patterns is the same energy that allows the molecules to arrange itself into the unique DNA pattern.

Go and read more about DNA it contains code similar to human's code. So DNA is information.

Emusan:
You said I should pick a book, when you were told God exist you request for an evidence they gave you Bible you said Bible is a myths Greek's book yet you want me to adhere to your own prove through a BOOK.

You above quote is funny. I said pick up a book to see the proofs and evidences provided. I did not say pick up a book and believe unsubstanciated docrines. You are allowed to reject proofs presented and present an alternative theory, and if your thery correlate with observations better thsn existing theorem, you will become famous.

Information can be define as a Code(syntax) that has a Meaning for Expected Action to carry out Intended purpose. And these four keys words are the attributes of information. If anything lack one or found outside these four attributes in not regard as information.
@bold- Purely lie! Information is more than patterns but a complex and meaningful code generated from intelligent source i.e software, you can see how complex, meaningful, and tidious the codes are and arrange in orders.

Your lack of basic scientific knowledge coupled with pre-programmed religious indoctrination is hampering your understanding of how the universe works.

Your above definition of information only applies to information technology(IT), it cannot be applied to fundamental science. On the most basic level information is energy, a pattern than can be produced first, tranfered from one point in space to another or through one medium to another then interpteted to achieve a desired result. First a pattern is formed, it might be a sequence of molecules or 1 and 0s. an energy source is responsible for the arrangement of patterns, then the pattern must be transported from its source to another medium or space. From the new medium the message must be demodulated and interpreted and then used in a way to achieve desired results. without the intetpreter the information is just random pattern that is useless.

First of all, for you to agree that nature consists three entities disprove your believe (atheism) because atheist believe nature compose only matters(mass/energy).

"Information can stand or exist without energy". Example; your computer.
Hardware (mass)
Software(information/spirit)
Battery(energy), so if you remove the battery it doesn't have effect on the software i.e erase the software.

what three entities are you talking about? you senselessly stick to meaningless religious digma. There are no three entities anywhere, the universe consists primarily of energy and the interractions of harmonics, quanta, packets of this energy.

how can information exist without an energy source, even with your basic IT definition, you need an energy source to create, install and decode the software.

Go and read more about DNA it contains code similar to human's code. So DNA is information.

Are you sure you know what you are arguing about? DNA does not contain code similar to the humam code, DNA is the code itself (pattern of molecules), that is the blueprint for the human and all of life itself.

One known fundamental fact of the universe is that the total amount of mass - energy in the universe is constant, meaning energy(including matter) can neither be created nor destroyed. Now are religionists saying their gods do create and destroys energy? And is this remarkable phenomenon observable anywhere in the universe? Or we are to believe it by faith.

wirinet: One known fundamental fact of the universe is that the total amount of mass - energy in the universe is constant, meaning energy(including matter) can neither be created nor destroyed. Now are religionists saying their gods do create and destroys energy? And is this remarkable phenomenon observable anywhere in the universe? Or we are to believe it by faith.

What is energy? If all the matter in the world radiated into pure energy, how can one measure the amount of energy available?

wirinet:
You above quote is funny. I said pick up a book to see the proofs and evidences provided. I did not say pick up a book and believe unsubstanciated docrines. You are allowed to reject proofs presented and present an alternative theory, and if your thery correlate with observations better than existing theorem, you will become famous.

You too pick up a Bible and you will see evidence of God existence.
You think you're the only one reading science textbook/christians are born with Bible.

Your lack of basic scientific knowledge coupled with pre-programmed religious indoctrination is hampering your understanding of how the universe works.
Your above definition of information only applies to information technology(IT), it cannot be applied to fundamental science. On the most basic level information is energy, a pattern than can be produced first, tranfered from one point in space to another or through one medium to another then interpteted to achieve a desired result. First a pattern is formed, it might be a sequence of molecules or 1 and 0s. an energy source is responsible for the arrangement of patterns, then the pattern must be transported from its source to another medium or space. From the new medium the message must be demodulated and interpreted and then used in a way to achieve desired results. without the intetpreter the information is just random pattern that is useless.

who I am to define information, according to "Universal Defination of Information (UDI)" is my source. If not because you've been deluded with your atheism you won't say information is aplicable on IT only.
Laws of information was formulated in 2006, by many informational scientists for both human code and machine language lead by Dr. Werner Gitt. They gave four attributes for information which are: code, Meaning, expected action, and Intended purpose. And anything outside or lack one of these attributes isn't information.
Prior to the discovary of DNA code in living things, atheist, humanist, and evolutionist have made us to understand that nature contains only matters (mass/energy). This DNA code has found its way complied with the four attributes of information, make scientists believe that all living things carry informations in their DNA.
Let me just quote some laws of information though there're many.
*All informations can be trace back to an intelligent source/sender.
*Materials can not generate immaterials.
*Informations can not be generate in statistical processes (No amount of time given and CHANCE available that can generate a meaningful information). All these laws are from UDI.
Let's ask oueself these questions.
*human DNA carries a meaningful information, according to first UDI law quoted above "all information can be trace back to an intelligent source, Which intelligrnt source/sender can will trace DNA information back to?
*Nature contains matters only according to materialism, but secong law says materials can't produce immaterials. How come information is in nature?
*atheist said nature happened by CHANCE, third law said no amount of time given and chance available that can generate informations, Nature can't happen by chance!

There are no three entities anywhere, the universe consists primarily of energy and the interractions of harmonics, quanta, packets of this energy.

I cite an example above. Information doesn't depend on energy to exist.

how can information exist without an energy source, even with your basic IT definition, you need an energy source to create, install and decode the software.

Mind you information comes before anything (you think to act not that you act before you think). Thoughts & Will are product of information they are immaterials.

Are you sure you know what you are arguing about? DNA does not contain code similar to the humam code, DNA is the code itself (pattern of molecules), that is the blueprint for the human and all of life itself.

It's you that didn't know what you're arguing about. Browse DNA codes are similar to human codes that's why it contains four attributes of information.

I will like to bring this thread back because the argument that any semblance of design or patterns in nature must have been design by a humanoid mind.