₦airaland Forum

Hope they are pro-life though.

UnchangeableGod:
I will answer you sir not because I need to prove anything. No. The Bible is not meant to be interpreted subjectively. By subjective, I believe you mean interpretation based on one's own ideas or opinions rather than the facts. The purpose of the Bible (Scriptures) is "to profit the readers and listeners as doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction in righteousness so that the people of God may become perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works" (2nd Timothy 3:16). Any other purpose of interpreting the Bible other than as quoted is subjective and therefore not according to the will of God. Thanks.

Does that make the bible a sufficient rule of faith?

You see, bible-only (sola scriptura) Christians like yourself claim that 2 Timothy 3:16-17 claims Scripture is sufficient as a rule of faith. But an examination of the verse in context shows that it does not claim that at all; it only claims Scripture is "profitable" (ophelimos) that is, "helpful". Many things can be profitable for moving one towards a goal, without being sufficient in getting one to the goal. Notice that the passage nowhere even hints that Scripture is "sufficient", which is of course exactly what protestants like yourself think the passage means.

The context of 2 Timothy 3:16-17 is Paul laying down a guideline for Timothy to make use of Scripture and tradition in his ministry as a bishop. In verse 14, Paul says, "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them". Timothy is being strongly urged to hold to the oral teachings (the traditions) that he received from the apostle Paul. This echoes Paul's reminder of the value of oral tradition (2 Timothy 1:13-14) "Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us." (2 Timothy 2:2) "and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also". Here, Paul refers exclusively to oral teaching and reminds Timothy to follow that as the "pattern" for his own teaching (2 Timothy 1:13). Only after this is Scripture mentioned as "profitable" for Timothy’s ministry

How shocked are you knowing this now? I would love to know your understanding of the verses- 2 Timothy 3:14, 2 Timothy 1:13-14, 2 Timothy 2:2 as I explained.

UnchangeableGod:
There are so many truths sir but not all are saving truths. There is only one saving truth : that Christ Jesus died for sinners to rescue us from hell fire. We do ourselves a great favour by appropriating His free gift of salvation by repentance and submitting to His Lordship the rest of our lives. This is my focus. Every other thing is secondary or a needless distraction. I don't have anything to hide either. It is just that some people ask questions not to know and follow what will eternally benefit them but to find faults or win arguments. Christ my Master did not answer all questions posed to Him directly not because He had anything to hide but because He knew the motives of the inquirers (Matthew 12:1-8; 151-9; 16:1-4; 22:15-22; John18: 33-38). May we not miss the point and pursue shadows. May we make our ways right by acknowledging and repenting of our sins and exercising faith in the finished work of Christ on Calvary. May we also continue steadfastly in Christ till the end I J N, Amen. God bless you.

Attend to the question I raised if you're honest and brave enough. Why are you scared? Is the bible meant to be interpreted subjectively?

kennygee:
If the old men on the bench will give him chance abi.

I'm sure some of our oldies will give that chance.

Hope he comes back and help "build" his kontiri and make some money. Election tribunals pay well.

Lesson: your lifestyle can increase or decrease your life span.
Eat healthy, live healthy.

RIP to the couple.

UndisputedBosom:
So whats the fuzz all about....while some girls can swallow 9inches with there eyes closed

Wow

So homo get spirit, hmm.

UnchangeableGod:
Thanks a lot sir for the insults and name calling. To be honest, you are the one in dire need - need of Christ and His saving grace. I don't bother about the controversial 'truth' you are dragging about sir. The only truth I bother about is the one which enables me me know Christ the more and by His grace make it to heaven at the end. I gave you the testimony of my salvation
(and God knows it is real). I didn't save myself and I couldn't have. It is God that did it. I expected you to give me yours, not some 'my denomination is the first and better than yours' stuff. It doesn't take anyone close to Heaven. Never mind if anybody is deceiving himself. The race to the Kingdom of God is personal. Get the real thing sir and it shall be well with you.

Truth is truth; it has no duplicate. It's either you have it absolutely or you don't. Some human beings do profess lies sometimes thinking it is the truth. Why are you scared of putting your "truth" on trial? I only expect such behaviour from muslims.

SalamRushdie:
Believe this Pained Radical Islam sympathizer at you own peril ... Just Imagine the lies he is spewing here and even has the temerity to give the Obama the credit for defeating Isis when we all saw the way he defended even using American firepower at times. I keep saying the only people that hate Trump are Islamists, homosexuals, illegal immigrants and misfits and they keep proving me right ..

All under the one umbrella - ANTIFA... but ironically, they are actually fascists themselves.

swiz123:
I bet a 9inches rod hasn't sampled that your useless butthole

My rod has nothing to do with this

UnchangeableGod:
You are SO WRONG sir. My faith and salvation has been long settled when I gave my life to Christ on the 18th day of November, 1999. I heard the glorious gospel, repented and surrendered my life to the lordship of Christ. From thence, my life has never been the same. The life I used to live, by His grace, I live like that no more. It is a great miraculous change caused by the Lord alone. This song comes handy and sums up my testimony: "Oh what a wonderful, wonderful day, (a) day I will never forget. After I had wandered in darkness away, Jesus my Saviour I met. Oh what a tender, compassionate Friend, He met the needs of my heart. Shadows dispelling, with joy, I am telling, He made all the darkness depart. CHORUS: Heaven came down and glory filled my soul. When at the Cross, my Saviour made me whole. My sins were washed away, and my night was turned to day. Heaven came down and glory filled my soul". I quite understand that there is no unconditional eternal security. As such, I am determined by the grace of God to hold out till the end. My faith and salvation can never depend on the truth or errors being taught or propagated by any other individual or group. Heaven is a personal race. However, I thank God for where He put me. The undiluted and enriching truth from the Bible is being taught and encouragingly, majority are living by it. Glory be to God! May you and all who are following this discussion have similar testimonies and may we all make it to heaven eventually in Jesus' name, Amen.

Stop dodging the question. Are you scared of truth hitting you hard? Summon some courage and face it ma nigga. I have done my bit to embed it in your subconscious, and it won't go away until you explore it for truth's sake. Living in denial or ignorance will not benefit you.

UnchangeableGod:
'it would do me a lot of good" if I resolve which issue? To tell you who is accurately interpreting the Bible? Is it so that you can be saved or feel happy that some groups are not interpreting the Scriptures correctly? Will you even believe that I have 'resolved' the issue? BTW, how will telling you who is right or wrong do me a lot of good? It is you it will do a lot of good but from your antecedents so far in this forum, you are not after the truth. What ever I tell you, you will still argue. So it is better you let the Holy Spirit teach you once you make your ways right by genuine repentance ie turning away from sin and unbelief and surrendering your life to the lordship of Christ. Unfortunately, you are only after arguments as if winning such will grant you salvation and right standing with God. God does not expect us to know everything. It is only He that is all knowing. But there is a simple truth that you MUST know for your eternal well being which is this: The truth is that which saves a sinner from sin and eternal perdition and keeps the saved in Christ till the end. Errors and falsehood only keep people religious but not out of sin. Those who teach the saving truth and live by what they teach are of God but those who do otherwise are not of God. The Bible says by their fruits, ye shall know them" (Matthew 7:15-20). Correct interpretation of the word of God is not an all comers affair as you inferred. It is only for those who know God, those who have made their ways right with God through Christ and thus experientially known the truth. One can't give what doesn't don't have. Thanks.

The question you are dodging to answer bothers on your faith and salvation. You should really consider answering it.

UnchangeableGod:
The truth remains the truth. Your name remains your name even if a hundred people call you various names that are not yours. I don't care which disagreements exist among those who preach from or interpret the Bible. What I care about is that you and all who read this should be saved from the damnation and horror that will soon befall all unrepentant sinners. So if you are yet to repent of your sins and receive Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour, you do so today because you may leave this world sooner than you think. And you if should die without Christ (God forbid), you will regret for all eternity. Once you receive Christ, the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth. Thus, you will be able to differentiate truth from falsehood. Thanks.

Law of Non-contradiction: Contradictory statements (A and B) cannot be true in the same sense at the same time. Either one of them can be true or they are both false; but they cannot both be true.
It's very pertinent that one objectively substantiates a deeply held "truth", else he'd be living in a fool's paradise. In that light, it would do you a lot of good if you resolve the issue below.

Being that there exists among protestants, the fundamental disagreement as the one I highlighted, which of them has the accurate interpretation of the biblical authors, the apostles and the early church fathers' teachings? Or is interpretation of the scripture and faith now a subjective all comers' affair?

Abuja house london is now a pilgrimage center

UnchangeableGod:
First of all, conversion from a sinner to s saint has no fraud associated with it as opposed to special 'magic' centre where students 'pass' examinations where they know next to nothing about what they 'passed'. So there is no bases for comparison. It is either one is converted or yet to be. If one is genuinely converted, the person himself or herself knows, God knows, Satan knows and the neighbours who knew the person's former life equally will be able to testify that a positive change has taken place. After conversion, one needs to learn more about the new found faith and God's expectation of him/her as a child of God so as to grow in faith. On the issue of the Holy Spirit abiding with or leaving the Church, it should be noted that not all gatherings where Christ is mentioned or the Bible read can pass for a Church. The Holy Spirit cannot dwell in a Congregation of spiritually 'dead' people in the first place. Secondly, continuous grieving of the Holy Spirit through sinful indulgences or false doctrines will drive Him away from an individual or a Congregation. (1st Samuel 16:14; Ephesians 4:30). It is an irony and laughable to explain away why people repent after leaving the 'Church'. How is it s Church if people cannot repent while still there? It is like justifying people leaving a so called school to acquire knowledge elsewhere. What makes that building and the 'teachers' there to qualify as a school then?

You keep building a strawman argument. The crux of the whole argument is below; address it.

9inches:
The question was, being that there exists among protestants, the fundamental disagreement as the one I highlighted, which of them has the accurate interpretation of the biblical authors, the apostles and the early church fathers' teachings? Or is interpretation of the scripture and faith now a subjective all comers' affair?

newsynews:
The allahu alakoba people abi?

Say no more

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2QwrgnIjlM

Graphic video: https://twitter.com/necatulu21/status/898207593142923264

Must be the usual suspects

PatriotTemidayo:
What majority of people termed as perfectionism is actually PRINCIPLE and professionalism.

Some people are so lazy, instruction piece them like needles, some are so complacent; they want things to remain how they've been for ages, but they complain how white people achieve so much and we dont.

Try managing Nigerian workers and you'll need OXYGEN support in just two months.

There are wonderful Nigerians, who understand that workplace is guided by strict rules for performance and we have those that want money but never want to be corrected, or directed, or even shown when things are not done right.

Though there are few people who are perfectionists in the real sense of it, but I can tell you that some girls and guys just think they should be pitied or given favourable treatment just because they are girls or young men. Na!


Me myself I hate perfectionists, but we get it mixed up sometimes.

On point. You will lose your sanity if you encounter civil servants in our public offices.

WTF! This is violence against men. So dehuMANizing.

UnchangeableGod:
So you don't believe Christ died for everyone's sins according to the Scriptures. Well, He died for mine and by His mercy and grace, I responded to the gospel message and got saved on that particular day though I had heard the gospel preached couple of times earlier without surrendering. It is the desire of Christ the Saviour for everyone who hears the gospel to repent. But sadly, some will not repent immediately while some will not repent at all. We are not robots but free moral agents - free to decide whether to obey God or not and the consequence of obeying or not is entirely ours. Faith also plays a major role. A lot of people may hear the same message, but only those who mix it with faith (that this is true and real) will benefit (Hebrews 4:2).

That is the answer to your question why people easily repent after leaving the Church.

On the special 'magic' centres issue you mentioned, I thank God that there are places like magic centres according to you, where sinners who had been long in certain religious organisations can come in and by His grace, get converted within a record time. Well, there are certain reasons why virtually everyone in some Assemblies attend church there for years without genuine salvation. One may be that the Holy Spirit Who is responsible for conversion is absent leaving the people with empty, dry religion. Another may be that the clergy or preachers are not living right to the knowledge of the congregation and as such, their messages do not carry weight. Another may be that there are so much formalism and ceremonies even in the presentation of the gospel that it hardly moves people. Also, if sermons are more of entertainment and display of knowledge, oratory and eloquence, conviction can hardly come out of such. Apart from that, where people are not challenged to pray seriously concerning what they heard, then it will not benefit them.

You know what happens to special center candidates; they acquire easy passes with no solid foundation. When such candidates are subsequently subjected to further examinations, say aptitude tests, their fraud comes to bare.

As a 'bible only' apologist, can you show me where the the bible says that the Holy Spirit might leave the Church at any time?
@bolded; have they always been the case ever since inception, or would you attribute it to a our post modern world issue? Figure that out.

On the issue of water baptism, it is an open declaration that one had decided for Christ. One needs to be born again before voluntarily presenting himself/herself for water baptism. Water baptism on its own, without genuine salvation does not save anyone. If a sinner repents and receives Christ and dies without being baptised in water, such a one will go to heaven (Luke 23:43). But once there is opportunity for water baptism, a born again Christian who has not been baptised must of necessity, make himself available. On whether one can lose his salvation, the answer is YES. That is why Christ Jesus said that it is only those who endure to the end that shall be saved (Mark 13:13). He warned us to remember Lot's wife (Luke 17:32).There is initial salvation (conversion) and there is final salvation(heaven). There were people who were converted but later backslided and unfortunately did not return to God before they died. Such people went to hell fire. Saul, the first King of Israel, Balaam, the prophet and Judas Iscariot are good examples. May that not be our portion in Jesus' name, Amen.

The question was, being that there exists among protestants, the fundamental disagreement as the one I highlighted, which of them has the accurate interpretation of the biblical authors, the apostles and the early church fathers' teachings? Or is interpretation of the scripture and faith now a subjective all comers' affair?

UnchangeableGod:
You claim that the Catholic Church is the 'most authentic and reliable of all interpreters'. My question then is that if so, why are there billions of people in the Church who are yet to benefit from such interpretations of the Bible to come out of sin and into Christ? I was there and I know many who were there and remained sinners for decades only to join those, who according to you are not qualified to interpreted the word, yet got converted, within days or months, some even within hours. As I type, there are millions, if not billions of devoted Roman Catholics, some highly placed in the Church, who are deep in sin and occultism, with all the 'authentic and reliable interpretations' (though there are sinners in all congregations). Sentiment aside, don't you think something must be wrong with such 'authentic and reliable interpreters' or the manner of such interpretations? If our so-called authentic and reliable interpretations do not help people out of sin to know the Saviour and be on the way to heaven, how authentic and reliable is that and of what benefit is that to them? So according to you, the multudes of sinners in the Church who listen to your 'authentic and reliable interpretations' lack understanding but once some of them get to some other places of worship where the interpreters are not authentic and reliable, their understanding comes back and they get saved. Let me tell you sir: There is no two ways about salvation and there is no confusion about it. As a sinner acknowledges of his sins, genuinely repents and accepts Christ as Lord and Saviour, he will be saved. There is no other interpretation. A sinner is not a Christian and s Christian is not a sinner. Thank you.

By your logic, one would ask, if Christ really died for everyone's sins as He claimed, why is everyone who has heard the gospels not coming forth to claim their own salvation?

Secondly, given that students stand more chance of passing their O'levels exams in special 'magic' centers, how strongly would you be making the argument that it was their school that had failed them?

Lastly, @bolded; evangelicals and fundamentalists disagree on central issues such as baptismal regeneration and the necessity of baptism (is it merely a sign to other Christians, or does it have a real role in the process of justification?), whether or not one can forfeit salvation (some protestants say that’s impossible to do, others say it is possible). You all claim to be 'bible-only Christians', but which group is right?

UnchangeableGod:
And who are the most authentic and reliable of all interpreters?
Do you mean those whose interpretations of the Scriptures have not helped their multitudes of adherents, who have been listening to them for ages, to know the need to be born again, come out of sin and to embrace the salvation that is in Christ alone according to the first 'Pope'? (Acts 4:10-12). So what is the benefit of such interpretations if I may ask?

The Catholic Church is the most authentic and reliable of all interpreters.
There is listening and there is understanding. Martin Luther probably listened but lacked the understanding part.
The benefit of the interpretations? As there are confusion amongst protestant evangelicals and fundamentalists even on central doctrines concerning salvation; who then would be right in their interpretations? Or do you think the scripture is open for subjective interpretation?

Awoofawo:
But black are the one taking the shit throw around no so?

No. You don't know the story.

Awoofawo:
Are the black the one who started the fight or the rednecks

It's not a black and white thing. It's the (alt) right versus the (far) left.

Awoofawo:
Liar! peace kini.........................?

It was peaceful until the neo liberal fascist anti-free speech snowflakes came out.

No pity for him. They were at the wrong place, doing the wrong thing at the wrong time. They came to counter a peaceful protest.

UnchangeableGod:
You said I should come back 'home'. If where I can find home is in history books including the Bible (which is the most authentic and reliable of all books), then I am already home sir. Thanks.

Don't you think the most authentic and reliable of all books should go with the most authentic and reliable of all interpreters?

itsdumebi:
"We will continue to pray for the president. God will keep him alive till 2019 so he would witness his removal from power because Nigerians are already tired of this change.

Savagery

Savagery

UnchangeableGod:
If that sums up your faith, good luck to you sir. My own faith in based on the teachings of Christ and His Apostles handed over to us through the Holy Bible. It is based on the sacrifices and vicarious death of Christ on the Cross of Calvary to redeem me and take away my sins. I heard the gospel, repented of my sins and surrendered my life to the Saviour in line with the Scriptures after being a devoted religious sinner for years. My life changed from a sinner to a saint. I was also healed of certain ailments as I had faith in His power to heal. I am presently being used by God to help others find the truth, be saved, healed and delivered (where necessary) and have a lifelong relationship with the Saviour as He commanded. My faith is not in a denomination. It is only on Christ Who loved me so much as to suffer and die for me and rescue me from sin and its consequences of eternal damnation. I pray you will realise what I have realized if you are yet to I J N, Amen.

Read again, clearly.

9inches:
Home is where the early Church fathers live and my faith, amongst all other things you might know of, lies on the tradition and authority to interpret and as well teach the Good News of our Lord Jesus Christ to all mankind.