₦airaland Forum

Putindbutt:
Not all but your selective version. It is rather a mere academic exercise holding tight to an account that describes the ibos as "very probable" inhabitants of Bonny. Like I said in my earlier comment, the Aros- a mix origin of ibos and ibibios were slave raiders who had treaties with the ijos and efiks at each slave ports upon supply of ibos slaves at either ports.

Really!!!Treaties with the Ijos and Efik. Kindly post supporting documents and date.

While the Efiks were historically documented, as at 1800s, what happened to the ijaws? Why were they not documented? Did the authors forget?

You didn't answer my other questions too.

What happened to the ijaw language in Bonny and Opobo? Why are their descendants trying to finish what there ancestors started?

Putindbutt:
Once again, John Adams was beclouded by the sheer number of freed ibos he may have encountered in Bonny. which underscores his bias as being inaccurate. Saying it is " VERY PROBABLE"/ LIKELY" that ibos were original inhabitants of Bonny, underscores his bias as being inaccurate and works as unreliable and easily disprovable.
A more detailed account would have been referred than mere guesses. It shows John Adams was far removed from the realities surrounding Bonny. He wasn't even sure of his own accounts.

All the accounts that has been posted has always been talking about the Kings and masses of Bonny natives being igbos, so much that the language in Bonny is a dialect of the igbo language.

Are you not consigned that the other party that are being claimed as indigenes/natives/owners of Bonny were not even mentioned. Not even once, so that we can start debating.

Calabar was another major slave port and I am not sure the Efiks claim they were Igbo slave merchants(visit Marina resort). Even though free igbo slaves were released there including on their islands (Duketown, Creek etc) the igbo language isn't a native language in Calabar. Bonny and Opobo are the only places on the Gulf of guinea were the spoken language is different from the acclaimed native's language(something for guiness book of world records).

If anything, history has proven the Arochukwus as the National police of the entire landscape most times using divination and posing as great dibias. They were the Chief slave merchants both at Bonny port and Calabar port. I am shocked they are not making noise about it.

I hope you saw in one of the later accounts were some presumed ijaw people were celebrating the gods of the Aros for delivery them from a pandemic.

The falsehood in trying to adulterate the demographic of the ancient kingdoms of Bonny and Opobo is the reason for this picture below.

Is anyone surprised why natives are being mandated to learn a second language as I am?

BKayy:
Proof/evidence?

Beer parlour gist.

The amount of ignorance in the country in near nauseating. Even among so called educated folks.

afonjaheadhunts:
It's okay for you to say Ijaws sold Igbos into slavery without any historical journal or literature to support your claim but when documented evidence from 1800 is provided to show Igbo's were not sold into slavery by Ijaws and to show that Igbos ruled the Niger Delta all the way to Bonny and Opobo Island you now suddenly coil like a snake to say it is business and any party can sell the other. I am trying hard not to tell you that you are quite dumb and foolish in many ways but i am restricted to restrict myself for the sake of this educative thread.

Your face saving strategy is a weak one kindly learn and educate yourself no one is above mistakes or learning, stop making a Fool of yourself as you can see this thread is littered with intellectuals who can see through your half baked education garnished with fear and spiced with ignorance.

That is what happens when someone sheepishly listens to people like Asari Dokubo(who is obsessed with his baseless fantasies) without asking questions or making your own findings.
Imagine how much more ignorance is been passed around from generation to generation.

"The best way to hide something from Black people is to hide it inside a book"-Anonymous.

About 200 years ago Crow inferred that blacks then were ignorant of the wealth they were sitting on (in a world without oil) in their home soil, 200 years later nothing much has changed except perpetuating ignorance. One Mongoloid had the effontory to come and say he had 2 UK postgraduate degrees with making any meaningful contribution. He better be wiping his behind with those papers.

Someone needs to make a movie of Crow's memoir. If Nollywood isn't upto task maybe Hollywood can.

Ekealterego:
You are correct. The book is free on Google books too as I can see.

Here are the excerpts

Beautiful addition. You deserve the award for some of the most interesting contributions on this thread.

I am curious about the 3 different Ottam groups in that record. Do you know that Nwaotam is also celebrated somewhere in Akwa-ibom? I first saw the mention of Ottam as a group of people in Crow's book which I am not sure any other Nigerian historian has documented. Yet someone has the effontory to try and dismiss his records.

It is unfortunate, the Ottam are hard to identified today. I hope some people don't fabricate a story for them.

Notice that Ndoki is recorded there as Igbo but it is about to be converted to Amunadokiari. Just imagine how many more names have been revised.

OfoIgbo:
That Brass language can be understood by every Igbo person


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onVPhIp6soo

Are you sure this is Nembe in Bayelsa State or Neni in Anambra State? Please, we would need someone from Nembe or someone who lives in Nembe to confirm if this clip in from Nembe and if those guys are truly Nembe youths.

If it is certified they are Nembe youths, then we seriously need to question who are the Ijaws?

Interesting questions on quora would include?
Who are the ijaws? Their history/origin, when did they first appeared in history, most importantly, what is there language? etc

If those are truly Nembe youths, then recent Nigerian historIans are a disgrace or I daresay we do not have historians in Nigeria.

I can imagine the damages or propaganda that would have been peddled pre-Internet age.

OfoIgbo:
At no point in that snippet did PEPPLE claim he is not Igbo. So your argument falls flat by the way.

At no point was OKOLOMA referred to as Ijaw

Meanwhile, Crowther's account are many decades after a more reliable account from Captain Crow

Ubani and Kalabari have Igbo lineages ruling over those places, so they could be speaking the Ndoki dialect of Igbo around the time that Crowther writing

How come the Bonny numbering system written down by earlier writers showcased core Igbo numbering system?

Not just the numbering system please! The language, culture and tradition. If I am not mistaken Crow wrote the first igbo dictionary at a time when colonialism hasn't started in Africa. As per justice system, he made it know that in Bonny, once your are indebted and cannot pay you automatically become a slave.Most times to igbo chiefs. So I am still wondering where the ijaws were selling igbo slaves came from.

Dude was so informed, he declared that the name Ada was a popular name for igbo girls.

I was laughing when I saw the name Opobo.

Someone wrote Bonny history, he acknowledged both Kings and Natives were igbos.

More than three-quarters of his experience was about igbos and people are trying to claim they were Igbo slaves without evidence.

GreatBoss:
If these guys are asking for Ijaw towns with AMA let me give them some.

AZAMA APOI BAYELSA IJAW

ANGIAMA SAGBAMA BAYELSA IJAW
(THE TOWN OF THE GUY WHO NAMED BIAFRA)

UKPARAMA AROGBO ONDO IJAW

OLODIAMA EDO IJAW

OLODIAMA BAYELSA IJAW

OGBEINAMA DELTA IJAW

KPAKIAMA DELTA IJAW

(HOME OF THE NUMBER 1 IJAW PERSON WORLDWIDE THE INC PRESIDENT)

OBUAMA KALABARI RIVERS IJAW
(HOME OF ASARI DOKUBO)

OKPOAMA
BRASS BAYELSA IJAW
(HOME OF MINISTER OF STATE PETROLEUM TIMPRE SYLVA)

AMADAKA AKWA-IBOM IJAW

(HOME OF IJAW NATIONAL AFFAIRS COMMISIONER)

ABULOAMA WAKIRIIKE RIVERS IJAW

ABONEAMA KALABARI RIVERS IJAW

ABALAMA IBANI RIVERS IJAW

OLOAMA IBANI RIVERS IJAW

KILIBIAMA IBANI RIVERS IJAW.

KAIAMA KOLOKUMA BAYELSA IJAW
(HOME OF ISAAC BORO)

OKOROAMA NEMBE BAYELSA IJAW

AGUDAMA EPIE BAYELSA IJAW

AGUDAMA EKPETIAMA BAYELSA IJAW

ASARAMA ANDONI RIVERS IJAW
(HOME OF IYC PRESIDENT WORLDWIDE)

And many others too numerous to mention.

Thanks for your submissions.

I noticed that most of the names had Ama as suffix except for few that has it in between. However, I am interested in your so called Ama in Akwa-ibom which unlike the others the Ama is a prefix.

We may soon need a thread on the, 'ijaws of Akwa-ibom'.

As a side note, it would also be interesting to know the meaning of Amadi-Ama.

Omanambala:
The man is quite funny. He is taking Crowther's account that favors him and everything else can burn...lol

Crowther's account DIDN'T favour him. It is like Ngwa people calling Bende people Umu Ogbo, while Bende people refer to themselves as Alai, item etc Look at it carefully, including the language dictionary @Ekealterego posted from the same book. The Bonny words(number 127 on the list) as translated there were PURE igbo words.

Is none of you not surprised that in both Crow and Crowther's accounts, there hasn't been a single mention of Ijaw(the so called natives) in all those records. Perhaps they were so invisible the authors didn't take note of them.

Alabo7978:
So you are having a hard-on because spiff was attacked?
Crow wasn't a local, and he didn't know a thing about the kingdom. The people hated whites!
Even Kula(a town) chased out the white men who landed there, but they still attached kula into brass, you see how misleading?
Was it not Horton who even wrote that Nembe (an ijoh clan) is Igbo?
Bro, a country or tribe are the ones who can tell their history and not some media lions seeking to gain money.
Crowther was more accepted because he didn't come with a white skin.
His reports quoted king pepple,
But your white men report passively claims.
Mr Man show me a testament.
For the umpteenth time show me a testament. I showed you a testament, show me a testament.
Search Wikipedia or Brittanica, those early works your other clowns are bringing up has long been discarded for their falsehood.

You must be a despicable fellow for quoting that Wikipedia here!!!

The same Wikipedia were ijaw people are using to lay claims to Akwa-ibom using IPOB 2020 as their reference.

I am excited this conversation is taking place. People will now begin to question the fictions they are used to, including all the ones on Wikipedia with either new references or no reference. This thread will help raise awareness and prevent expansionism.

Ekealterego:
This is another account by Horton in a different chapter stating the dialects of Igbo written in 1866-68
Slayerforever, look at Bonny carefully written here.
9japluto
Bkayy
Igboid
Eastlink

Wow! This is almost 40years after Crow's death and during the reign of King Jaja of Bonny. It certainly confirms Crow's finding.Your post sums up the identity of Bonny/Ubani/Ibani people.

It is interesting that most counter arguments have mostly been and admixture of threats, rants and insults typical of someone struggling to hide facts.

Alabo7978:
He didn't say so, your white man said so.

And by the way, the only reason ndoki even have some ties with Bonny was because Asimini married off his granddaughter Kambasa off to an ndoki man to Foster trade relations with the hinterlands, Kambasa didn't like that place, and once her father died she returned back to okolo-ama leaving her husband behind.
Your white man didn't even mention that because he didn't know how to communicate with the locals in the dialect so he just gather few facts to HURRIEDLY arrange a report or thesis.
If not for Kambasa marrying an ndoki man, the few IBO freemen wouldn't have been free.

Facts not fiction. Whatever we say here should be evidence based. Some of this things happened more than 200years ago so oral fictions are mostly unreliable. So provide supporting literatures.
Meanwhile, I take exceptions to your saying, "your whiteman" dismissively as you won't be doing the same if the write up favours you. If you won't acknowledged a white slave merchant's written account, whose own would you believe? Some tales by moonlight?

Eastlink:
For those interested, click the link below for the source.
https://books.google.com.ng/books?id=9E_zDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=king+pepple+from+pepper&source=bl&ots=fGTkP8XETD&sig=ACfU3U3KYZCi8LewH_2n4RAw0jGOPy_3Xw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiTm7emosjyAhXxA2MBHVIxCf0Q6AF6BAg1EAI#v=onepage&q&f=true

You can also check below for the Nairaland thread.

https://www.nairaland.com/6716756/evidence-king-pepple-got-name

Thanks for your kind updates.

JANK23H:
That is enough proof.It's a common word among all Ijaw clans.
Olodiama(Edo),Gbaramatu(meaning:people of Gbarau town/village) and Kabiama in Delta state,Ukparama in Ondo etc.There are so many to list.A lot of Ijaw villages have "Ama" or "Biri" attached to them.

I guess this settles the meaning of Ama in both cases. We would need more info about the Okoloma in Ndoki.

It is interesting to note that the Ndoki, Opobo and Bonny are the same people according to findings.

Alabo7978:
Shut up, I read that stuff, the writer only flatly said the above kings are ibos.
It didn't show a testimony from the kings saying they were Igbo themselves.
So if I say you're from Ghana, and I publish it, does it mean you're Ghanaian?
Show a personal testimony, I repeat SHOW A PERSONAL TESTIMONY.

Are you trying to say Crow didn't know what he was talking about?
The same Crow that took slaves from Bonny to the new world for over a decade.
Whose duty is was to sort slaves according to their origin. Who was VERY good friends of both King Pepple and King Haliday including their wives and Bonny natives. So much he was nicknamed Play man. The same Crow that makes jest of both Kings. That once walked King Haliday off his ship.
Crow that was able to quell an uprising of slaves on a ship by appealing to the slaves according to their ethnic nationality.
Crow who was able to differentiate different nationalities Igbos (including breeches), Brass, Ottams, Quaws, Appas etc according to their language, physique including complexion, mannerism, tribal marks etc

Is it the same Crow you are talking about?
The one that knew igbos so well he knew their common names and wrote a dictionary of their language. Is he the one you are saying he won't be able to identify the ethnicity of his personal friends and long term business associates.

Like I said, that memoir was written for the future.

SlayerForever:
I may have it

Modified : okay this is not it. But it talks about Pepple's Christianity and the origin of the name Pepple. Not Perekule as revisionists like Chinenye will have us believe

Another Perekule in the dustbin of history. You guys are evoking high blood pressure with this findings. Please, keep them coming. If not for any other thing let us change narratives and force Nigerians to start reading. It would be interesting to learn more of such from Lagos, Calabar and other coastal ports of the past.

Is this the same write up @Ekealterego mentioned? If not, kindly mention the source and date.

Thanks.

Ekealterego:
If not that I want to source this as neutral as possible and from someone who explored the Niger first hand.
If I present the works of Beale Africanus Horton, in 1861 here, the Ijo people would have commited suicide since.

This is a no holds barred thread to dispute all conjectures, myths, fallacies and fictions with scotched-earth facts. Let us put it on record for now and the near future so people won't keep passing on lies to their descendants.

My neighbour who has a B.SC in history and international relations confessed he is excited about this facts.

So by all means submit all relevant literatures to support whichever part of the divide you approve.

SlayerForever:
The same Pepple told the man he is Igbo, told Captain Hugh the same thing, told the man New Calabar and their king Amakiri is Igbo. Hence, the language spoken in both New Calabar and Bonny his kingdom was Igbo. He described Fubara his acquaintance taking asylum in Bonny as a stranger.

So what is your argument really.

Like the post originally stated Facts versus Fiction. If you read Crow's account you would be marvelled by the details. So so much you cannot dispute that facts. That book was written for the future.

It is my hope that the igbos in both Bonny and Opobo would now have the full confidence to start asserting themselves and stop believing some fraudulent claims of being immigrant slaves whose language was adopted.

Ekealterego:
.
Even if his life depended on it, he can't.

In case you are interested for your own research. Here is it. Baikie worked on both the exploration and on resolving ambiguities. Many places and people had multiple names as given by multiple people.

"Narrative of an Exploring Voyage Up the Rivers Kwóra and Bínue (Commonly Known as the Niger and Tsádda) in 1854. with a Map and Appendices. Pub. with the Sanction of Her Majesty's Government." By William Balfour Baikie

Thanks bro. I will definitely take a look and revert here before the week runs out.

Ekealterego:
Don't commend him. Do you believe that Ijoh can bring anything original.. He stole it!

I uploaded it in a thread, that was just a section of the upload. I uploaded from my own very book.

That was just a section of the book.
Tell him to reference the book.
It was in the same book that King Pepple admitted he was of Igbo descent. in the book Crowther wrote alone, it was also clear in a letter Pepple wrote to the crown in London to bring Christianity. Pepple specifically mandated Crowther in coalition with a Rev at Onitsha (I will remember his name later) to create an Igbo Bible.

Now, why will the king of Bonny request for a church and Bible in Igbo language?

Are these claims for real!!!
I am afraid this conversation will continue exposing a lot of fallacies.

Please, kindly let me have this literature so I can post it if you guys won't.
Thanks.

Putindbutt:
Among the ijaws, there were trading ports both for slaves either merchants, where there were ibos and ibibio admixtures. The ijaws of Okrika, Bonny, Buguma, Abonnema, Bakanna, Nembe, Brass etc are ascriptive and assimilationist in their culture.
Ibos were welcomed into the household and never referred to as slaves, instead they were" people of the house" (wari bio apu). The Kalabaris never referred to the ibos who were assimilated as slaves ( even though they were). They were members of the household who had rights as the biological children of the chiefs and in certain circumstances had more rights than the children of the chiefs or head of household.
The riverine chiefs traded extensively with ibos. They have large plantations, special markets and even "colonies" within all parts of iboland, hence the " Kalabari beach" in Oguta, Imo state.

Thanks for your kind submissions. However, for the purpose of this analysis, whatever you say should have a document/literature as proof so that we don't keep dwelling on fiction or hearsay.

Give us of your sources and dates.

Ekealterego:
Don't commend him. Do you believe that Ijoh can bring anything original.. He stole it!

I uploaded it in a thread, that was just a section of the upload. I uploaded from my own very book.

That was just a section of the book.
Tell him to reference the book.

Noted bro.
I have already asked him to reference the book.

Alabo7978:
Would you then explain why pepple and crowther maintained that Bonny speaks the Bonny dialect instead of the Igbo dialect or any other dialect.
From your explanations, it entails Bonny was some sort of Lagos in those days with multiple tribes(I agree) but who owned Bonny?
This document from crowther and pepple should tell clearly that Bonny were owned by the okoloama people who spoke the okoloama dialect which is THE SAME EXACT LANGUAGE SPOKEN IN CALABARI.

Let me start by commending you for posting an interesting addition to this discourse. At first look, my literature is older than this one you post. Meanwhile, it would be necessary for you to mention the date and name of this publication for context. From my studies both Crowther and Jaja came after Crow had left Africa. Though Crowther was birthed earlier than Jaja.

Your post sorts of proof the igbo claim that Ubani/Ibani is an Igbo dialect.

Crow explicitly stated that Bonny people were Igbos and Brass. While acknowledging the presence or existence of Igbo, Breech, Brass, Quaw, Ottam, Appa slaves.

Let us also remember why both Crowther and Jaja though slaves themselves, they both ended up on the African continent.

Once more kindly names your source so we can look for more information to enrich or discourse.
Thanks.

AlexBells:
This is not figment of my imagination, I read it earlier how the Portuguese equiped the coastal people with Weapons and alcohol which they kidnapped people from the hinterland and sold, the Ijaws which you would figure out are not originally a people but today they prefer to be a people despite that they are a collection of the different nationality of the East,

Now to your question, there are some things I don't really want to say but these people albeit being Igbo abd other neighbouring tribes has assigned themselves a new identity and they were actually engaged in these whole crime and which includes kidnapping and selling slaves, account by white travellers is not enough, there should be archeology to it,

You recognise that there are a people called Ijaw abd I don't in the real sense of it, but I don't quite say much on that topic but with all the studies that you had personally made bare, it do seem that when you realise the eventual truth you would not speak any further and then you ask who are the true Ijaws, what is their origin ?

Whatever information you think you have have, post screenshots here. It will help our learning and either prove or dispute certain claims. When you say coastal people you need to be specific. Yoruba, Itshekiri, Oron, Efik and Igbo(according to the author) people are coastal people.

If accounts by white travellers isn't sufficient, is it gossips you would relly on? You do not need any archeological finding or even DNA test in the case of Bonny and Opobo. If you have not been to both places before, go and watch youtube videos. Listen to to language they speak, the physical features, mannerism and tradition (masqurades, age grade etc)

Recent studies have proven that a lot of assumed truth are fallacies without historical backup.

AlexBells:
How could you tell who sold who and who did not by remotely staying here today, you can't prove that the Ijaws never sold Igbos, it was a business and anyone can participate, unless you don't care about the truth but if the notion that Ijaws never sold Igbos serve you right, hold on to it and observe it like a ritual but I believe at one point, Ijaws must have engaged or facilitated slave trade,

The two school of thought have every propensity but without ego you should be able to decipher the truth, King Jaja was an Ijaw thats a truth

You obviously were not in existence during the slave trade era, so where did you get the notion that Ijaws sold igbo slaves, from Asari Dokubo I guess.

Someone would lived through the period in question and actively participated in slavery has rendered a well documented account of what transpired, but folks like you won't read or research. The typical African. You would rather regurgitate what comes off your head and pass the ignorance to your children.

The author said igbo chiefs in Bonny set people up with their wives and victims eventually pay a fine or become slaves. Does it occur to you in this circumstance that anybody could become a slave (which the author confirmed) including the Brass people. So should we say igbos sold Brass slaves?

You summed up with King Jaja being ijaw, the same Ijaw the author did not meet/see in Bonny 10years before Jaja's birth.

We are here to analyze facts and not figment of people's imagination. Thanks

JANK23H:
Obori!

Ama is an Ijaw word for town/village.When Ama appears in an Ijaw word,it means the town of .......

This is an interesting submission. Now does Ama mean the same thing to the ijaw in Delta, Edo and Ondo or is it only in Rivers State?

We may soon need the support of an igbo-speaking ijaw and an Ijaw-speaking igbo.


Please, guys let us try to keep the conversation as civil as possible.

JANK23H:
The sea,canoe/boat have always been part of the Ijaw man.The average Ijaw man in time past spent most time there than his village.Sometimes,he would build his abode on water.Water is his life.

Fact

Ekealterego:
Here are different accounts.

I don't think history supports your assertions.. History recorded that you guys were wild, rude and uncivilised.

These are from two different accounts.

You were pirates with no land. who dwell on canoes.

Is this for real!
No central king(in the spirit of tracing the first Amanyanabo)!!
Living off their canoe!!! So no be today piracy start. This account is also trying to show that Brass may not be ijaw after all. It is all making sense now. Later one illiterate would come and claim Europeans are ignorant.

Please, for context sake, when was this published? How do I access this literature?

christistruth01:
We have Lived Side by Side wth Ijaws in Yorubaland for more than 200 years if not for Politics of Oil Oppression Ijaws are very Peaceful People and very good neighbors

It was Ijaws who taught the Ilajes to become the expert fishermen they are today

If you do not put your hands down Ijaws throat to drag out trouble like you are doing now by dragging Ijaws Opobo and Bonny with them because you want to steal their Oil rich Lands and Sea Coast

Ijaws would have been among the most Peaceful People in West Africa

The same Ijaw trying to claim almost all Nigerian coast including Gabon. They are currently claiming Akwa-ibom coast and part of Crossriver coast line. A careful analysis of the references I have found of most ijaw related claims online are either recent or not verifiable. I even saw one of the claims referencing IPOB 2020!

The challenge in the original post here was simple, dispute Captain Crow's claim with evidence and all you guys could do is to start throwing tantrums.

christistruth01:
If you had any sense you wouldn't be dragging ancestral lands with the owners!

That is dirt low IQ

Go to your Primary School and get a refund of your fees

You learnt nothing useful

Pay for another Primary School Education

Rubbish

Ancestral land indeed.
Bonny and Opobo are the only two islands throughout the Niger-delta where the spoken language is different from the acclaimed ancestor's spoken language and the culture different from the acclaimed ancestor's culture.

Human beings didn't emerge from thin air, we all migrated from somewhere and according to available facts igbos were the first to arrive there. I bet your UK schools didn't teach you some of this.

christistruth01:
You thought you were intellectual

You are not

You don't know the meaning of intellectual

Remember what you called me

Rubbish

No, I WEREN'T intellectual. As a matter of fact the guy you dare criticise, has supplied the single most intelligent literatures to this conversation and here you are parading 2 UK postgraduate degrees with zero content.