₦airaland Forum

WhoDeyHause:
Rest in Jesus name.

Lols. Okay.

Roland17:
Isn’t it ironic that this type of killing occurred in an institution of learning (College of Education), a tertiary institution for that matter?

One would have expected an elevated level of maturity and engagement in managing the incident before it degenerated into the gruesome murder of the girl. But no, the result wasn’t any different compared to if it had happened on the streets of Sokoto or near the mosque.

So, no.. I don’t think much can be done until practical steps are taken to forestall such.

I don't honestly think anything can be done to forestall a future occurrence. I think the only solution is to part ways with those barbarians in the North.

Nigeria is a failed project.

donjazet:
Shebi you people are seeing what I've been warning you about. The negative effects of whataboutism, suddenly we have 10 pages discussing things that had absolutely nothing to do with Deborah's death.

Apart from online discussion, do you really think there's anything that can be done to prevent a repeat of such a gruesome act in the future in the North?

Capaldi:
You don't know my religion so stop all those crap. Both Judaism, Christianity and Muslim worship the same Abrahamic God. Allah is just the Arabic word for "the God". Allah, Jehovah,Yaweh etc are used to refer to the same God in different languages. Jesus Christ has been proven by various theologist and historian to be an actual person that existed so stop believing Joseph Atwill delusion that He was a fictional character created by the Romans.

I don't even know who Joseph Atwill is. I did my own research independently and extensively some years back and came to that conclusion.

If you say Yeshua was a real person, that's true according to my own findings. But if you say Jesus was a real person, I won't agree with you.

Jesus Christ is just an idea invented by Rome using the history of Yeshua, who was a giant man that existed in the homo erectus era.

Some Christians that don't know this fact tried to fast for forty days and forty nights (as a homo sapiens) like Jesus did in the Bible, which imperiled their health.

But they don't know that the Jesus himself is an idea (a word), which the clever writers of the Bible invented based on the history of a giant man (Yeshua) that lived in the old world, and his massive body could sustain the fast of forty days and forty nights.

Some of the miracles that Jesus supposedly did such as Yeshu's very loud voice, sharper sight and sharper hearing as a homo erectus were due to the natural abilities of the old human species. They were nothing supernatural or spiritual.

But others were illusions, tricks manipulating certain properties of nature.

If you follow research in archeology and paleontology, you can learn about the old (extinct) human species, especially homo erectus.

Amoto94:
For a start what do Arab Christians call "God"?

They call God Allah. Yoruba Christians call God Olohun, which they erroneously regard as Yahweh as well.

That doesn't make Allah to be the same as Yahweh and to be the same as Olohun.

But each of Allah, Jehovah, and Olohun has claimed the title of God Almighty as I said above.

Olohun, native to Yorubaland, gave birth to Obatala and Odua as his children, with Orunmila his companion.

Yahweh, native to Israel, gave birth to Jesus, while Allah, native to Arabia, gave birth to no one.

These are different entities, with each claiming to be God Almighty.

Capaldi:
Bro all what you have typed are religious conspiracies so I don't know where to start from. First of all the conspiracy that Jesus was a fictional character has been rejected by all scholars of antiquity.

Lols. It's a religious conspiracy to say Jehovah isn't the same entity as Allah?

It shows you don't know much about Jehovah, the God of the Bible, and Allah, the God of the Qur'an.

Well, I'm not surprised; most Christians I know don't know a lot about the Bible.

It's a historical fact that each of Allah, Jehovah, and El (or Elohim or El-Shaddai) has claimed the title of God Almighty in their religious text.

El had reigned before your religion was created.

You're merely reacting to my post emotionally. But anyone that researches the history of your religion will easily discover that Jesus Christ isn't a real person.

He's just an idea based on a real human that had lived in the past (extinct) world.

Capaldi:
When you are done with all these your nonsense and are ready to provide your so called verses/passages then mention me.

Christians and Muslims don't worship the same god.

Christians worship Jehovah/Yahweh, an entity native to Israel who claims the title God in the Bible.

Muslims worship Allah, an entity native to Arabia who claims the title God in Qur'an.

Each of these deities is different, with distinct histories. Only those that don't know the history of Yahweh and Allah say they're the same.

According to the Bible, Yahweh gave birth to Jesus Christ. But according to Qur'an, Allah gave birth to no one, which is one of his most important attributes.

Saying Muslims and Christians worship the same God is tantamount to stating Israel's Herzog is the same as the Saudi Arabia's King Salman, but both are different individuals being the leaders of the two Asian countries respectively.

In history, thousands of gods have been worshipped by humans, including Atum, El (or Elohim), Baal, Ra, Allah, Olorun, Jehovah, Zeus, Ahura Mazda, Mithras, Chukwu, Sin, and many others.

Each of these gods has all claimed the title of God at one point or the other in history. Thus, it's incorrect historically and etymologically to say Allah is the same as Jehovah.

Most Christians pray to the pagan god El or Elohim thinking they're praying to Jehovah. But both are distinct entities with different histories.

I just laugh whenever I see all these pastors shouting El-Shaddai. They don't know El or Elohim was an adversary of Jehovah.

But the clever writers of the Bible plagiarized the writings of god El, importing concepts like hell into Christianity, and also copied the religious texts of Mithras and those of the ancient Egyptians.

Hundreds of years later, Muhammad also plagiarized the Bible, especially the Jewish writings, to get Qur'an.

Also, before Jesus Christ, the fictitious character designed by Rome to dominate other nations, there had been many Kristas that claimed to be the savior of their people.

Most religious people don't carry out objective research of the history of the god they worship. But it's very important.

Most didn't even bother to read the content of the attached photo of the fatwa (verdict) before commenting.

The headline is misleading. How is the punishment stipulated in that fawta better than what those blood-thirsty miscreants did?

Everything about the religion of Islam is despicable.

Misleading headline.

Amoto94, how is the punishment explained in the fatwa below better than what those mob did yesterday?

How is burning of an innocent person worse than cutting off their neck (based on Sharia as stated below) for a common act of criticizing religious beliefs, which you Muslims also do daily but hypocritically regard as blasphemous when others do it?

https://www.nairaland.com/7126865/imam-al-nabawi-mosque-saudi

This religion is even worse than I had thought.

ÈDÈ as Who We Are

Iya Oyo says language, èdè, is everything.

“Do you know the meaning of language, èdè?” Iya Oyo asked me.

“It’s what we speak, isn’t it, Iya Oyo?” I replied.

“Yes, and no,” Iya Oyo instructed me. “Èdè is what holds us together. What is the meaning of dè?”

“Dè means to tie, bind, join, connect, secure, link, fasten and so on. You can “de” two things together.”

“Now you are beginning to understand the importance of èdè,” Iya Oyo revealed. “Èdè is what holds a people together. Two people cannot communicate or live together without something that connects or ‘de’ both of them. That is the meaning of èdè. It is the basis of human society, friendship, relationships, and any form of association. That is why èdè is so very important. If there is no èdè, a wife and the husband cannot live together in harmony, because one does not understand what the other wants.”

“Èdè is the most important thing in human life,” Baba Oyo confirms. “This is why I am troubled when I see these people who are not learning the èdè of their mothers and fathers but enjoy using the èdè of other people. What they are doing is breaking the relationships with their people and tying themselves with other people who have no interest in their people.”

“It is worse than that,” Iya Oyo says. “They are creating confusion among themselves. The èdè of every people is built on and tied around the physical and spiritual situation of the people. You build an èdè that will tie you or ‘dè’ you to the land. You love the people to which you are dè or tied. You cannot trust those to whom you have no èdè or bond.”

"Yes, Iya Oyo," I said. "It is easy for us to bond because we are using the same èdè that is tying us together."

"Isn't it a problem that people are now teaching their children èdè-àìyedè, that is a language that does not tie us together, a foreign language? "We are now learning a language that has no tie or relationship with our environment. What can we do so that we don't fall apart as a people if we continue this way?"

It began to make sense to me. My teachers since primary school days had always spoken of “As white as snow.” Apparently, that èdè is tied to an environment that has snow. Because I grew up in Yorubaland without snow, I was learning an èdè that was not tied to my environment, and it is confusing.

I vividly remember the first time I saw snow in Madison, Wisconsin, at age 36. That was the first time I recollected the conversation about èdè and its connection with the environment.

A week ago, my daughter sent me a picture of my granddaughter on her first visit to the museum. The picture shows my daughter, not yet three years old, conversing with strangers she encountered in the museum.

From the picture, I could see the role of èdè very clearly: they are using èdè to bond, and break down barriers of race, gender and other forms of difference and distance.

My granddaughter can speak the language of the strangers, and she is fortunate that she is also taught the èdè Yoruba, the things that dè or tie and bond her to her Yoruba ancestry and to the roots of her origin in Africa, though she is American by birth.

I recall Iya Oyo's question several decades ago. She asked, "What can we do so that we don't fall apart as a people if we continue this way?"

Source: Moyo Okediji's FB page.

CC: lalasticlala, bigfrancis21

Parizz:
was Jesus a good man?

Time to watch the match. I don't think you need my opinion to decide whether a fictitious character created by Rome as a political tool for domination is good or bad.

Amoto94:
The narrations on apostasy/blasphemy are well known and accepted by me just like committing treason the punishment is death once every condition has been met, I'm unapologetic about the stance of Islam on these issues. There are no truths in what the opponents of Islam have said they take isolated cases and specific issues to generalize without taking into context what warrant certain rulings.

I appreciate your honesty.

But whenever you or your leaders want to prosecute so-called apostates or heretics for saying the hard truth about your god, prophet, or Qur'an, keep in mind that no single group or religion has the monopoly of violence.

I'm sure you learned a thing or two from that link you shared above. If not for the wisdom of the imam and the VC, a number of students and possibly lecturers (both Christians and Muslims) could have lost their life that day in a riot.

The professors managed the precarious situation with sagacity, preventing the loss of lives and property.

Killing and attacking people based on religious grounds will do more harm to your religion than good in the long run.

Amoto94:
So the Imam didn't follow the Prophet teaching of restraint when a Bedouin intentionally urinated inside Masjid (Mosque) and ordered that nobody should touch him or this verse that said
"And the slaves of the Most Beneficent (Allah) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness." Quran 25:63
How will you know when you wasted most of your time in frivolities instead of learning

Are the following haadith about apostasy false?

Narrated Ikrima: Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "
Sahih Bukhari 4:52:260

Narrated Abu Musa: A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu`adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu`adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu`adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle.
Sahih Bukhari 9:89:271

Narrated 'Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"
Sahih Bukhari 9:84:57

There are other haadith about dealing with so-called blasphemous people, but I don't have time to search for them now.

The truth is, if someone says a hard truth about your god, holy book or prophet which you see as blasphemous and you ignore the person, your action isn't unlawful islamically based on the proof you gave above.

And if you decide to attack the person, your action isn't unlawful islamically as well based on the haadith (proof) similar to those I quoted above.

It all boils down to applying your discretion as a human and cherrypicking those teachings of your prophet you like.

From my experience, there are good and kind Muslims, and there are wicked ones as well. The same thing also applies to other religious/irreligious people.

Amoto94:
Read this link
https://ui.edu.ng/religiousriot

UI's chief Imam and the ex-VC both demonstrated admirable leadership skills, especially tolerance, to manage the crisis.

The imam didn't behave fanatically like the prophet and his companions, who those aggressive northern youths in Sokoto emulated.

It's always humane to apply one's discretion in following quranic teachings and hadith, ensuring one doesn't lose one's humanity while striving to please a god.

Humanity comes first before parochial things like religion, tribe, and race.

Image123:
God doesn't want to rule and dominate, He will. But He doesn't command believers to kill unbelievers for not believing, but to love them and pray for them like Paul who became an Apostle.

See the confidence. Lols. Okay.

popizaino:
Ok good,did this extraterrestrials who first settled on the earth created themselves ?

They're elements of the Universe, like everyone of us.

As for the source or origin of all things (both living and non-living), there's no concrete scientific knowledge of that yet, but the Big Bang theory and cosmology provide the best answer to the question of the origin of existence (as of now).

With time, these theories and concepts will still be developed further. But the religious texts are too limited, and their answers to the question of the origin of existence look like childish tales.

NinjaXmetahuman:
Anyways, I believe it's Time to promote science and logic over nonsensical beliefs.

Yes, it's good to promote science and logic, but it's also beneficial to promote one's culture, while condemning its bad aspects.

All cultures around the world have both good and bad elements, just like the native cultures.

Regardless of the bad elements like worshipping a god or goddess and the barbaric human ritual practice, the indigenous cultures are beautiful.

The primary object of creating threads like this is to promote the native Yoruba culture (Ìṣẹ̀ṣé), urging people to shun its bad elements (mentioned above) and embrace freethinking.

NinjaXmetahuman:
I never said that the traditionalists or traditional religions are as violent as the foreign ones. I said they are intolerant too. which I believe is the point of the thread. But if it's not then my apologies for barging in.


My point is; Killing or arresting people in the name of beliefs should never be tolerated. And any religion that finds that acceptable cannot be considered tolerant.

Yeah, Maybe Traditionalists don't try to subjugate people into believing their nonsense like the Abrahamic ones, but it's still a religion. And we all know most religions if not all, are cult like in nature. Cults are not known to be very tolerant to rival cults or neutrals especially when they are major cult. Big cult just wanna swallow the smaller rival cult group.

I hope you are not mixing religion and culture though?
Yoruba culture is very tolerant and promote tolerance. But can't say the same about the religion itself. But I don't want to go deep into that. It could take all my weekend.


Also, most traditional religions are not very organized like the Abrahamic ones. Which doesn't give room for majority or minority. And I think that is what is responsible for "tolerance". Or less violent nature of traditional religion.


There are so many gods to worship and so little people.
If it was organized like the foreign ones with doctrines and holy book and junk, then forget the tolerance.

Anyways, I believe it's Time to promote science and logic over nonsensical beliefs.

Have a great weekend.
And hope Chelsea win today

Religion is an aspect of culture, just like language.

Have an interesting weekend, too.

NinjaXmetahuman:
what is not factual about what I said about oro?
The fact that they arrest or sometimes kill women that refused to stay inside during oro?

You only talked about why they do oro, you didn't deny that they do arrest and sometimes kill women.

Yes, it's a practice with barbaric acts. In the pre-colonization days when different cities and towns in Yoruba region were governed by kings, Oro was done as a curfew.

Even today, anyone found walking about during a curfew is punished by the authorities.

Thus, all curfews have punitive measures.

But the manner of giving the punishment is what is barbaric about Oro as a curfew practice.

And it's incorrect citing a curfew practice like Oro with punitive measures to back the assertion that traditional religions are just as violent as their foreign counterparts.

NinjaXmetahuman:
Some religions are more tolerant than the other but that doesn't change the fact that most religions are not very tolerant.
And all should be done away with.

Agreed.

NinjaXmetahuman:
Why go into the past that's filled with human sacrifice etc when you still have traditionalists doing oro day for example which doesn't allow women to go out. Or some masquerades that do not allow women and children when they are on the move?

The oro people used to arrest women if they come out during oro day not minding if they believe in oro or not. (Ti obirin ba fi oju doro, oro agbe)

Now, would you be happy if they arrest or even kill your wife or mother in the name of oro?


Most religions are peaceful until they start gaining ground and have the backing of the law and government.

I don't think you understand the traditional practice of Oro that you discussed.

Oro is mainly done during certain periods in a town or village when a king just died, or when inexplicable calamities are befalling the residents, to ward off evil spirits, according to the traditional beliefs.

It's more or less a curfew. Thus, your example on Oro isn't a factual one.

And yes, the traditionalists are more tolerant and accommodating than the Muslims and Christians.

The accommodating nature of the Yorubas is a widely known fact that's not even debatable.

Hope you know those traditionalists you see about in gatherings all worship different native gods or orishas, but you'll hardy see Yemoja worshippers attacking and converting Ogun or Sango devotees by force, unlike Christians and Muslims.

That's what we're saying about tolerance exhibited by the traditionalists.

Only the Sango worshippers are relatively a bit violent because Sango was a violent god (the god of thunder) with a similar temperament to vengeful gods like Allah and Yahweh.

But the other native gods were relatively peaceful, and even the concept of hellfire is alien to Isese (traditional beliefs) as the worshippers of the native pagan gods and goddesses believe in reincarnation, not in hell.

A Yoruba term like orun apadi was copied from Christianity.

It's because of the relative peaceful nature of the native gods that the indigenous religions didn't spread into the other continents by force, and that's one of the reasons our forefathers could be colonized by European and Arabs, who were warmongers like their gods, Allah and Yahweh.

The traditional religions only spread via slave trade.

In all cultures worldwide, the attitude of a people is primarily determined by the temperament of the god (their deified ancestor) they worship.

popizaino:
You see why it is always good to be straight forward,you denied being geenstay or whatever but you now are referring us to the post you made with the moniker you claim it was not you. Is it some sort of Obatala doctrines? Asking for myself .

You're just jumping all about mentioning me. Is everything okay with you?

I was discussing with a nler last year October that all orisas were past humans.

Here's the thread, https://www.nairaland.com/6806804/idol-worshipping-isese-propaganda#106817631

Stop mentioning my moniker unnecessarily about a deactivated account.

LordReed:
Seriously, only the Abrahamic faiths propagate the desire to dominate the whole world in the name of their god. What is so wrong in allowing people be? Why must you convert them to your beliefs or subjugate them with your religious practices?

I agree with you the traditionalists have it right in the area of tolerance, worship whatever god you care to, no disturbance.

It's their god. Allah, like Yahweh, wants to rule and dominate the whole world.

There's even a chapter toward the end of the Qur'an that Muslims recite praying with the belief that the whole world will one day become Muslims.

The native gods like Olohun, Osanobua, Chineke and co. didn't have such ambition and so didn't design their religion with expansionistic and global agenda.

Since such a goal can only be realized within a relatively short time with the use of force and violence, Allah and Yahweh are violent gods.

But most of their counterparts in Africa are not.

The first photo below contains a quote from the Ooni himself.

A few months ago when I was telling someone on this site that all orisas (deities) worshipped in Yorubaland were humans that had lived in the ancient past (reincarnating as a homo erectus, homo sapiens, etc.) and either deified themselves or were deified by their descendants, he thought I was making things up.

Many don't know that deities like Orunmila, Ifa, Obatala, Osanyin, Osun, Olokun, Osanobua, and the likes all had existed in the ancient past.

That's the Ooni confirming what I said then. And these kings don't even reveal the deep histories they know about the entities their subjects worship as God.

Even the likes of Atum, Allah, Olorun, Yahweh, Odin, Zeus, etc. all had existed as humans in the ancient past and ruled this planet in the ancient past as kings.

That's why Yorubas call Olorun Olorun Oba. But the histories about these entities are lost/hidden from the masses for the purpose of controlling them through religions.

When scientists make key advances in space science (planetary science) and understand UFOs or UAPs in the future, a lot of secrets will be revealed about the ancient rulers of this planet, who are extraterrestrials and first settlers on Earth called God by religionists.

When many people in the future know that their god is just an ancestor and is not omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient, many religions will die a natural death as people will learn to take responsibility for their lives.

This Is Why I Respect The Traditionalists: Tolerance: https://www.nairaland.com/7126051/why-respect-traditionalists-tolerance#7126051.1

Compare this humane and accommodating attitude of the Isese practitioners with the violent behavior of the average Nigerian Muslim, whether in the North or South, who regularly ridicules and demonizes the great ancestors of the Yorubas (for example), such as Orunmila, Obatala, Odua, and co.

Cc: lalasticlala, Seun

"One thing about Onisese(traditionalist) is that we are accommodating and tolerable to a fault.

The reason why it's like that is because Isese is too wide.

We have religion inside the religion (you will understand now).

Our religious system is created in a way that it allows us to coexist with others with different beliefs.

I believe in Ifa and I'm also an Omo Awo, I'm obligated to learn and know about Osun, Yemoja, Ogun, Obatala, Osanyin, Egbe and other Irunmole /Orisa.

I can know all these but if need be, I can still go meet those who are specialized in each Orisa for deep knowledge of it.

Someone can decide to only learn about Obatala and be a priest of the said Orisa. Nobody can stop such person from doing that as long as he/she is doing it right.

Guess what, if A Sango priest is doing festival, you will see other people who are not affiliated to Sango there eating and rejoicing with the person.

It's so sad what the world has turned to where people now kill on behalf of their Prophets.

If you have to kill to defend your religion, then you are better off without the religion in the first place.

Your religion should reflect in your character, attitude and most importantly, how you treat others.

We have thousands of religion, obviously yours alone can't be the only way to access the Supreme being.

Let's make love or language
Kindbess should be our religion.
~Owomide

Photo credit: Adegoke Ademidotun M"
Source: https://www.facebook.com/100001738721703/posts/5057394634328444/

This cleric was honest about his feeling, unlike the hypocrites online condemning the students for following the Sunnah (practice) of their prophet and early Muslims by lynching their innocent classmate: http://saharareporters.com/2022/05/13/sokoto-based-islamic-preacher-urges-muslims-kill-blasphemers-says-its-least-they-can-do

They'll talk like a reasonable person online to garner fake likes, but offline, they won't hesitate to lynch and kill anyone critical of their beliefs.

Yet, these Muslims daily blaspheme, ridicule, and demonize the great ancestors of the Yorubas, such as Orunmila, Obatala, Odua, Ifa, Sango, Ogun, Yemoja, etc.

One thing I know is that key aspects of Islam (and religion generally) will become strange to our children and their descendants in the future because they'll be smarter than us and science will have developed much more than the current level and exposed a lot about the imported religion.

Even Muhammad himself prophesied how his religion will become strange or weird to future humans.

Thankfully, some of the key aspects of Islam already look bizarre to sensible people.

alignacademy:
Dunno about you guys

What bothers me most is that this lady was killed by HER CLASSMATES

People who knew her, chatted with her, and all that

These same people were so incensed that they brutally murdered her in broad daylight

Don't they have any conscience?

And again, these are STUDENTS

What is the purpose of their education if they can be so intolerant of opposing views?

If you read Qur'an regularly and follow Sunnah, that violence comes naturally.

The attitude of these Muslims simply shows how powerless their god Allah is.

Without humans, these gods are powerless and useless.

They can't influence reality in any way, unless one believes in them and reads their religious text.

Lols. Most Yoruba Muslims are as violent as their counterparts in the North. Don't deceive yourself.

Well, if you don't believe me, you can say some hard truths (which they'll see as blasphemous) about their prophet or their god to their face and watch the outcome.

Only some Yoruba Muslims are liberals, who will follow a Christian friend to church, and those ones don't even observe sallah (prayer) regularly.

They're the intelligent and civil ones, and some of them can even become a freethinker in the future.

The Yoruba Muslims you see online condemning the lynching action of those miscreants in Sokoto are mostly hypocrites, and they won't hesitate to do something similar to their fellow Yoruba who is an atheist or agnostic.

The typical Yoruba Muslim can poison you, send thugs to attack you, frame you up just for being a freethinker. I'm talking from experience as an agnostic.

GloriousGbola:
These guys forget we were there. There were actual death threats made to Seun because it was open season on Islam back then.

Remember when Seun set auto correct to change muslim to great one

Lols, the adherents of religion of peace are not to be taken lightly.

Those that know the history of Sango worshippers in Yorubaland would remember those traditionalists used to exhibit violent behavior like the Muslims.

But the traditionalists (characterized with the practice of plaiting their hair in a peculiar manner like the deity Sango did in his lifetime according to legend) were even somehow humane compared with the adherents of religion of peace.

..