₦airaland Forum

Workch:
No theory is complete, I agree but that's not the arguemnt, that's a strawman.

The argument is that the current theory of evolution is not speculative. And yes, I understand the context you meant, I Jusy wanted you to know that you used the wrong words.

Can you tell me where I said that? Lols. That's from your own imagination.

It's like saying I said all the OP's posts on this thread are speculative.

Workch:
here, you said it here.

Edit it to "many aspect of the phylogenetic tree is speculative"

No need. What I mean in those comments is the evolution of humans after the Chicxulub Impact Event, which is what this thread is about specifically, not the theory of evolution generally.

There are various theories of evolution, and even the modern theory will still be developed further in the future when more discoveries are made.

No theory is complete in science, and that's the beauty of science.

Workch:
The theory of evolution is different from the phylogenetic tree.

Theory of evolution is the theory that people who assemble phylogenetic tree work with, like aa a guide. I myself don't trust the phylogenetic tree completely because I know it's hard connecting those dots but every single postulates of the actual theory of evolution has been tested millions of time to be fact.
Your comment assume that the theory itself is speculative instead of saying that the phylogenetic tree is speculative. Hope you get the point?

Read my posts again and tell me where I told you there are speculations in the theory of evolution, and in which theory of evolution.

What I said clearly is that there are lots of speculations in evolution, and that the widely accepted modern theory of evolution is not complete.

kkins25:
Ive gone through your post, but cant pinpoint the theories you're not contended with.
No scientist has claimed we know all 100%.

Some proponents of the theory of evolution on Nairaland assert evolution is responsible for the origin of life on Earth, but the theory doesn't accurately address that issue, which is why I pointed out the loopholes starting from the first post of this thread.

(Please, note I said loopholes in evolution, not in the theory of evolution itself; I don't want this statement to be seen as referring to the postulates of the modern theory of evolution.)

And I gave them other theories that can also be considered as strong candidates in addition to evolution.

Workch:
dude, you don't even know exactly what you are arguing about. What you have a problems with is the phylogenetic tree and not the theory of evolution.

Go edit your comment

Is the phylogenetic tree not under evolution?

And is there just one theory of evolution?

kkins25:
A001 be precise please. what exactly are you talking about?

I gave a good summary above. Then, some parts of the thread are even laughable.

But I understand that's the current level of knowledge of paleontologists and archeologists on the subject based on the discoveries made.

However, the attitude of some readers here seems to suggest they believe the posts completely, when the authors of the studies posted here clearly gave the limitations and scopes of their researches.

Workch:
people make numerous assumptions from the theory of evolution, just like the op. It doest mean that it's what evolution infers categorically. That's what I want you to get.

I can assume that Platypus evolved from birds because platypi have beaks like birds, there's no guarantee that I am correct and it doesn't in anyway make the theory of evolution as stated a speculation.

This thread discusses mechanism of evolution, specifically how humans evolved after the Chicxulub Event.

And from my previous knowledge of the subject and the posts of the OP on the subject, I know as a matter of fact that there are lots of speculations in the mechanism of evolution as explained here, just as there are many facts.

But that doesn't mean evolution is bogus. I stated earlier that it's a well-established natural phenomenon.

This aspect of evolution will still be modified in the future when more discoveries are made and the postulates of the theory itself will even be developed further in the future.

Workch:
Lol

The op maybe wrong, you are also wrong by saying the theory of evolution has few evidence with many speculations.

The theory of evolution never mentioned whatever the op is saying

Lols. Evolution is built on those theories.

chinasaekpere:
Nope, you stated that the thoery of big bang and evolution have speculations.

I just listed the theory of evolution for you, I need you to show me the speculation in the theory or you can go back and edit your comment in that regard.

You don't even understand what you're on about.

You listed the theory of evolution in just one post.

Lols. And this post covers the whole of evolution.

Don't worry. Believe everything stated in the OP's posts even when the authors of those theories gave the limitations and scopes of their works (as exemplified in the paper I posted its link above on the first post of the thread).

I don't have time for this kind of discussion. It's a waste of time.

Any graduate that believes this OP is quite gullible.

chinasaekpere:
Below the is a summary of the modern synthetic theory of evolution, show me the speculations.

Genetic Recombination
Recombination is a process where new combinations of alleles are formed. The genetic recombination occurs during sexual reproduc­tion at the time of gamete formation. There occurs an exchange of genetic material between non-sister chromatids during meiosis that is called crossing over. It leads to recombination and is one of the causes of genetic variability present within a population.

Mutation
Mutations are the sudden inheritable changes that occur in the gene and have a certain phenotypic effect. Chromosomal mutations may be due to change in the genes or chromosome structure or number, e.g. deletion, inversion, duplication, translocation, aneuploidy, polyploidy, etc. Mutation produces a variety of changes that may be harmful. Many of the mutant forms of genes are recessive and are expressed only in the homozygous condition. Advantageous mutations may be selected by natural selection and gradual small changes get accumulated over time. These mutations cause variation in a population.

Genetic Drift and Gene Flow
Any change in the gene/allele frequency of a population due to sudden, random changes, is referred to as genetic drift. It occurs due to chance events. Genetic drift is more prominent in a small population. Gene flow is due to the immigration or emigration of individuals from one population to another. If the migration occurs multiple times it leads to gene flow and changes the allele/gene frequency of the populations.

Natural selection
Organisms that are better adapted to the environment are selected by nature. Natural selection produces a change in the frequency of the genes from one generation to the other favouring the differential form of reproduction.

Isolation
It is one of the significant factors responsible for the synthetic theory of evolution. The isolation helps in preventing the interbreeding of related organisms which is a reproductive form of isolation.

In addition to these factors, other factors such as hybridization between two species increases the genetic variability of the popu­lation

I didn't ask you to copy and paste these postulates for me. They're are common knowledge online.

And the OP didn't start with those postulates. Read my initial post again, and tell me where I told you these postulates are speculations.

I gave some of the speculations I was referring to in the first post of this thread above.

If you believe all you read in the OP, then you clearly don't understand understand evolution and the way science works.

It seems only few Nigerians read things carefully and critically.

Workch:
boldened is the part of your post where you categorily inferred that there are speculations in the theory of evolution.
. Now you can show us the speculations.

You prefer running from pillar to post with numerous strawman

You're clearly a dogmatic fellow, not quite different from the religious people you criticize.

You asked for speculations in the theory of evolution, and I gave them to you starting from those in the first post of this thread.

Maybe the first post I quoted is from another thread.

It's obvious you don't understand all these scientific concepts and theories you read, but you merely crammed them. So, you believe all you read hook, line, and sinker.

Science isn't meant to be believed, but known.

chinasaekpere:
no one is arguing whether the theory is complete or not, no theory is ever complete.
The topic here is that you claimed that there are speculations in the theory of evolution which you are struggling to point to. Probably you made such speculations up..

Because theory of gravity by Einstein superceded law of gravity by Newton doesn't mean there are speculations in the law of gravity. It just means that law of gravity breaks down at very high speed and gravity like in blackholes and theory of gravity explains what happens there better.

You should choose your words rightly so you don't get stuck next time.

This shows you don't read much papers in science.

There are lots of speculations even in Einstein's theory of relativity.

You're talking like this because you only read about these theories in textbooks, not the original papers on the aspects of the theories as published in journals.

Workch:
You that read science papers, show me a paper that has disproven any aspect of theory of evolution.
You are the person in total ignorance of what we are talking about. You failed to understand the concept of theory, its evident.

There's never going to be time when the theory is going to modified to say that evolution doesn't exist and humans came from mud and women from bones. That's what you have failed to get.
Theres never going to be a time when the theory of gravity willsay gravity doesn't exist.
Theres never going to be time when the atomic theory will say that aroma dont exist.

While you have false assumptions as to how much I read scientific papers, you have shown crass ignorance in your knowledge of scientific theories. Scientific theories are the best explanations we have for explaining a particular natural phenomenon, it's going to be modified and there is never going to be a time when it will stop being modified, that's the beauty fo science and that's how we improve but theory of evolution can never say humans didn't evolve from other animals, it can only modify they mechanism as to how these change happened.

Your long post doesn't disprove that there are speculations in the OP.

Let me point out some to you since you're too lazy to read things critically:

On the first post below:

TheSourcerer:
65 million years ago, the asteroid impacted. The large non-avian dinosaurs (which had been in decline for millions of years) were finally finished off, and the ancestors of what would become all mammals, including us, crawled out from under their stumps and hollows and started invading vacant niches

Here's a research on the Alvarez hypothesis (what the OP started with above), now the most widely accepted theory in paleontology for the mass extinction at the end of the Mesozoic Era:
https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/how-an-asteroid-caused-extinction-of-dinosaurs.html

And the author, who is a Nobel Laureate, clearly said in the paper that "there are still a lot of unknowns".

In another part of the article, he said: "I suspect some of them would still be around. We don't know a lot about the last 10 million years of their reign and what we do know is based on only one area in the world, western North America.

"There is a really good record of those classic last non-bird dinosaurs like Tyrannosaurus and Triceratops.

"From that part of the world it looks like dinosaurs are thriving in terms of numbers, but the number of different types of dinosaurs is reduced. We don't know if that pattern held elsewhere - it's still a big mystery."

These speculations are glaring.

I thought any smart person reading scientific articles like this explaining events that happened millions of years ago would know the papers would contain lots of speculations as scientists, while highly intelligent, are also human.

That doesn't mean the theory is wrong, but it shows its limitations, just like other successful theories in the science world.

Asteroid impacts are well documented events in science, not to even mention Chicxulub event, which is a popular reference in archeological/paleontological papers.

This is just one post. By the time I analyze the others, you'll see there are lots of speculations in the OP.

chinasaekpere:
While it was modified, was anything disproven?

You're very funny. Is the theory complete?

Is there any complete theory in science?

The way you regard Neo-Darwinism can be likened to someone that crams the Standard Model without really understanding its limits.

The most successful theory in Physics is the Standard Model, yet it's common knowledge it's not complete and has loopholes.

Every theory and model in science has its limits and scopes.

Workch:
do you understand the theory of evolution and the four postulates? I don't think so

You sound like someone who's ignorant of it. Mention one speculation in the theory. Show me any paper in a peer reviewed scientific journal that has disproven any of the postulate since you read them alot. I will wait

Tell me where I mentioned those four postulates in the post you quoted.

Any intelligent reader can spot the speculative aspects in the OP. But it's clear you don't read scientific articles carefully.

You can go through the posts again and read them carefully.

The four postulates of Darwin's theory of evolution are general knowledge for anyone with a background in Biology.

chinasaekpere:
While I agree that there are speculations in big bang but I disagree with theory of evolution. All the postulates by the neodarwinian theory are so accurate that it can be arguably called the most accurate theory in the history of science. All the four postulates have been tested for almost 1000 years and there is never a time it has given a negative result. Big bang does give negatives.

I agree with you that modifications can happen but I doubt if it's going to be any major adjustment. Theory of evolution is the most power theory in science, everything almost depends on it.

The while field of biology will be usuelsss if you remove evolution. Nothing will make sense unless in the light of evolution. Don't be deceived.

Evolution is a well-established concept in science, and there are different theories of evolution, but Neo-Darwinism is the dominant and most popular theory.

Still, there are various speculations in those posts on evolution by the OP and in evolution generally.

Hope you know, the Neo-Darwinian theory of evolution has been modified at various times since it was first proposed.

It will still be modified in the future when more advances are made by scientists.

The Standard Model in Physics is widely known as one of the most (if not the most) successful theories in science. Yet, it still has its loopholes and will still be modified in the future.

Workch:
Mention one speculation in the theory of evolution. Just one.
I'm waiting

Lols. This question shows you don't read scientific papers carefully.

I don't need to mention what's glaring. Go through these posts again; any statements you see that contain words like could, probably, might, and the likes are speculative.

Anyone that believes all these posts on evolution hook, line, and sinker is not different from the religious people that believe in the creation stories of the religious texts gullibly.

Science is dynamic, and all theories in science have their limits and scopes.

Thus, one should approach theories and concepts in science with caution, keeping in mind their limits and scopes since they will be, and can be, revised or even abandoned altogether with time.

Taking all these submissions in the OP as facts is tantamount to a situation where
someone copied and pasted some articles on the Big Bang theory from somewhere and swallowed everything without paying attention to parts of the model that are well established facts and others that are speculations.

While there are various pieces of evidence in support of the Big Bang model, just like evolution, many aspects of both theories are speculative and are ongoing areas of research in science.

It's not even an established scientific fact that we're the most advanced intelligent species in the Milky Way galaxy, not to talk of the whole Universe, which is unimaginably big.

But it's a scientific fact that we've not discovered life on any other other planet apart from the Earth.

(Our science even looks primitive since the Age of Scientific Enlightenment is less than 1000 years old, yet it's the most precious thing we've.)

Personally, I posit the following theories all account for life on Earth:
1. Big Bang and abiogenesis
2. Intelligent design by extraterrestrials
3. Evolution (not exactly as outlined in the OP)

This is my own position on the subject matter, not a fact.

musicwriter:
Because Britain is a partner in crime and completely responsible for the situation Nigeria find itself today.

They found a good slave in Mr. president and this mess we're in today is because they're on a mission to help him reposition his ethnic group for power and prosperity. But it backfired and cascaded into this mess. So, from Britain's point of view, the terrorists are just freedom fighters.

Still waiting for your response, bro.

Workch:
If the origin of life is still controversial, so how come you conclude that an intelligence should be involved?

While I think that it's highly impossible for an intelligent being to have started life owing to the probability that life can start either

1. Anywhere in the universe and brought down here via panspermia
2. Abiogenesis here on earth

There is enough time for either of this to have happened.

The least probable is that an intelligence made it. Anyways, we still don't know, we are not going to act like we know for sure.

That's my own position, with reasons, and it doesn't rule out the other theories you stated above, which I also know about.

I could explain the reasons later if time permits.

Workch:
OK, patiently waiting.

And please come with evidence and not some philosophical arguments

This will become a lengthy argument sooner or later, and I don't want that; even it's been over a month since I last updated the other thread because of time constraints.

I'd need to find some old materials online on the subject, and that will be time-consuming.

It takes time to type these lengthy posts on Nairaland.

Summarily, evolution is the established concept in science on the existence of life on Earth, and evolution is a natural phenomenon.

I posit intelligent design is one of the concepts that can account for the origin of life on this planet.

That's my own position (not a scientific fact) as an agnostic, and I don't have the time to delve into that discussion at this period.

I've a lot on my plate now.

(There are various theories on the origin of life on Earth; one of them is based on evolution and another on intelligent design; the origin of life on this planet is a controversial topic.)

Workch:
OK, patiently waiting.

And please come with evidence and not some philosophical arguments

Yes, I'll and mention you.

Workch:
I'm curious to know how intelligent design played a part in the existence of life.

It will be very interesting to see some evidence as well.

Yes, I'll provide more details soon.

badboyTee:
Let be tolerant of each other and talk with proofs pls sometimes as a freethinker I wonder how all these came about.The sky,moon,space,universe,sun like how it floating baffles me.

And how humans came about Evolution or Adam and eve ?

Let enlighten each other!

My position as an agnostic is, both evolution and intelligent design (creation) are responsible for life on Earth.

Evolution is the established concept in science, but just like the late Nobel Prize-winning biophysicist Francis Crick, my position is that the origin of life on Earth is also due to the activities of the ETs (extraterrestrials called gods, goddesses or God in religion) on this planet in the ancient past.

That was his view as a secular humanist as he avowed "that human problems can and must be faced in terms of human moral and intellectual resources without invoking supernatural authority."

Clearly, one can hold the notion of intelligent design or creation even without believing in a god or the supernatural.

When I'm less busy today, I'll give reasons and proofs why I posit both evolution and intelligent design are responsible for life on Earth.

LordReed:
I really can't figure him out. I mean we can see all around us how our country continues to deteriorate. He is like all those people praising the god for saving a bible from a burnt out house.

The way religious people think can be ludicrous. I hope one day, many Nigerians will see religion as one of the major factors behind the poor state of development in Africa.

It puts a bar on a person's thinking faculty; and no people can solve life's myriads of problems efficiently and effectively when they can't think clearly.

Development and innovation start from the mind — a free (not enslaved) mind.

NinjaXmetahuman:
true.

I have learnt so much and have so much clarity from reading diverse arguments and articles on this war and how it might affect Africa.

unipolar influence is already disastrous for Africa and its economy. I also believe now that It is time for some real competition from east to challenge the gargantuan powers of the West. Africa will benefit a lot the both west and east competing for the soul of Africa instead of west taking whatever they want cos of the power they hold.

Competition is healthy.

It's gonna be super hard, even almost impossible for East to be as powerful as the west, but we cannot allow or cheer the west as they try to crush the east and do whatever they want.

West doesn't have good history with being good to those who are not ready to do things their way. And they are ready to crush if you don't do things their supreme way. But knowing there is actual competition will put a clog in that wheel.

Well said.

NinjaXmetahuman:
West doesn't have good history with being good to those who are not ready to do things their way. And they are ready to crush if you don't do things their supreme way. But knowing there is actual competition will put a clog in that wheel.

No, the West doesn't. The records of their bruteness are clear: ranging from how Britons almost wiped out the native (black) Americans in America, to how Britons did the same to the aboriginal (black) peoples of Australia and New Zealand (the Maoris and the likes).

The West have a worse history in Africa than the East, especially the Arabs.

For Africa, a healthy balance of power between the major actors in the Western and Eastern regions is crucial.

LordReed:
LoLz. Saving us from what? There is hunger in the land and people are killing their fellows just for a bit of bread and you say we are safe, are you dreaming or what?

He's just delusional. How does Nigeria fares where the majority of the citizens are religious compared with the countries topping the chart where there are many atheists and irreligious citizens?

The limiting effects of religion and belief in God, supernatural things, and prayers are glaring in Nigeria being a failed state.

Interesting to see India say no to its former colonial masters; Mahatma Gandhi would be proud: India Cancels UK Delegation Visit To Discuss Anti-Russian Sanctions

https://www.nairaland.com/7048835/india-cancels-uk-delegation-visit

While I advocate world peace and a quick resolution to the Russia-Ukraine crisis, it's good that Russia continues to oppose the hegemonic influence of the West, especially the United States.

Russia and her allies, including China and India, should strive harder to keep Western influence in the East (the Orient) at bay; a unipolar world is disastrous for African states.

musicwriter:
This confirms that all the attempts to assassinate Adolf Hitler by his liutenants were all orchestrated by the West.

Take note that what they're doing here is subtly inspiring people to kill Putin. That's how they plant an idea in the mind of the gullible. It works well for them to control elites in their former colonies for further control of a nation.

I didn't hear anything from you again about the other matter, bro.

dopeJemi:
Hey Nairaland Family, It’s been a hot minute, I hope everyone is fine and doing Okay… I saw all your messages, kind words, worries etc and I was sincerely moved and grateful to still have people constantly remember me and talk about my absence, I can’t thank you all enough, I really can’t, words fail me right now but all I can say to you all is Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, it means the world to me. What happened to me was terrible and I wish I could erase the memory forever and never have to speak on it again, It was one of the darkest moments of my life But I’m grateful to God for Life… This may sound odd, That’s because it is and I’m more than ashamed/embarrassed to have to ask and resort to this.. after the incident, I lost everything, Totally. I was depressed for a long time, Life was tough for me, I deteriorated badly, I’d collect loans to try to start all over but it never worked out, I’d end up taking up another loan to pay for the previous one, just so I could breathe for a short while, I contemplated taking my own life but I just couldn’t, It’s been very very hard for me lately and I just couldn’t help but come here to ask for help in any way. I have a pending loan that is due in 2 days and I haven’t been able to rest/calm my mind since I started getting the notifications for it, I took up a loan of 26 thousand naira plus their interest fee which sums it up to 31,200, To some, this may seem small, a few years ago, this was small to me but right now, It’s as big as a million naira to an average man, it’s that bad friends, it really is, I still have another loan of 30k waiting for me that I took from a friend but cause he’s a friend, he is being patient and considerate. Please My nairaland fam, I desperately need help in clearing up the first loan of 31,200, I took that loan from a loan shark and I have barely 3 days, 2 days to go before they start embarrassing me. I’m ashamed that I have to do this but I have no other choice, Please I beg you guys. No matter how small, just so I could get them off my back and breathe, even if it’s for a short while as I’m going through a lot right now. I’ll only drop my account details when I’m asked to do so cause I know that no one owes me anything.

Good to have you back. I also went through a rough patch not too long ago, so I understand how you feel right now.

Take care, bro, and stay strong; good times are ahead. Hope you can get the help you need from kind members here.

abdullahi45:
You found all this gibberish in the Qur'an?

They are logical inferences drawn from reading Qur'an and thinking about its contents objectively.

I thought you would prove my points wrong, especially by telling me any exclusive benefits Muslims enjoy in this world that other religious or irreligious people don't.