₦airaland Forum

hensben:
Zidane is a good coach but this is same feeling I have about him.

Zidane's case is different now. He's not only a Madrid legend as a player but also the idol of many footballers.

Several players respect him a lot. But you can't say the same about Nuno.

Lols

Dtruthspeaker:
See contradiction!

You said "you do not exist".

Yet, who does not exist is looking for a real human being who exists to engage you, who does not exist.

So nonexistent things can talk with existing things as you are doing, Yet you say you are looking for scientific evidence of God's Existence, meanwhile you are doing the very same thing. Wow!

Even your fellow Christians would be laughing at your stupidity.

Real humans don't exist or live on a website since it's not a real place.

Only threads, posts, members' accounts (not the members themselves), and other sections of the site exist on Nairaland.

Real humans live in a house, which is a real place.

You're talking like a mentally ill person.

Dtruthspeaker:
How can I give you an answer when you do not exist?

Surely, I would look mad, since I am talking to the air!

Lols. Happy living on Nairaland!

Let me look for a real human to engage, not a programmed bot that exists on Nairaland as a religious zombie.

Nothingserious:
[s]Lol!

See I already know you are incapable of holding critical discussions for long without diversionary tactics.
I am simply dropping this here just for the records.

First of all you failed at backing up with your scientific claims with any evidence.

Secondly you failed to defend your worldview without leaning on science.

Thirdly you don’t understand why you are an atheist or an agnostic. You keep talking about why you are a physicist even when Christians are also physicists. We agreed that if a Christian could study physics and still be a Christian, then physics isn’t responsible for your godlessness.
I asked you to tell me specifically your conclusions for godlessness, you have been beating around science aimlessly for hours on end.

Fourthly I asked for a scientific text or law that had anything to say about God or the supernatural, you couldn’t respond.

Additionally I gave you a list of pure and applied scientists with Christian worldview, you fraudulently turned it into Christian Science issue. I was actually marveled at how you could do that and still retain the honour of a science student.

Next to that, you brought up bogus claims about science , history and philosophy. I asked whether you knew that philosophy is the bedrock of religion and even Christianity. You gave nebulous answers.

I was beginning to believe you do not really understand what you wanted to talk about.
You are way out of your depth here.

Go and sin no more. I will leave you to your folly. Lol[/s]

This is a long post with no atom of sense.

I already told you it's science that informs my agnostic position, being a physicist.

Being enlightened on many life's issues is one of the biggest benefits of being science-savvy.

So far, you've not been able to provide scientific evidence that your god exists.

Also, you keep bringing up the issue of the adherents of Christian Science.

It's stale already.

Dtruthspeaker:
So we who are called men do not exist here on nairaland simply because we do not sleep, eat etc here?

Explains a lot



Now Attacking the man (Ad hominem) because you can not validly argue.

You've not given me a reasonable answer to my question.

You're the first person that claims he lives or exists on this site. You mean you've no life outside of Nairaland?

Is everything okay with you?

Dtruthspeaker:
If you being here, can still Lie that you do not exist in spite of the evidence already on ground, simply because you do not want to give what you would call "scientific evidence" of your existence or nonexistence here, SURELY IT PROVES YOU ARE BEING YOU ALREADY KNOW END IS A FALL.

Do you know what's called existence at all? So you exist on Nairaland, meaning you sleep, eat, have sex, go to work, and do all other daily activities physically online here on Nairaland?

I know religionists like you're mentally ill anyway. Without coming to Nairaland, you stop existing?

Dtruthspeaker:
Kindly Answer the question so that I can answer you.

what would you call 'scientific evidence" that you exist in nairaland?

But I already told you I don't exist on Nairaland now. Which human exists on a website?

Nothingserious:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology

I thought you wanted to talk about each of the scientists.

[s]Lol!

Wannabe agnostic who doesn’t understand his worldview and cannot defend same.
I guess you are just an 16 year old who is still struggling with identity crisis.
[/s] Foolish rantings

This doesn't change the facts I highlighted about Christian Science.

Dtruthspeaker:
Typical with you people, Lying is always an option.



I answered you already and you were unable to respond. Then tomorrow you would lie that you won .

Secondly, what would you call 'scientific evidence" that you exist in nairaland? (Then I would answer you)

You answered me already? You're the same person as the other guy above that posted biblical gibberish as scientific evidence for his god's existence? I see.

Well done.

About the last paragraph, I don't exist on Nairaland. Do you?

You exist on Nairaland forum as what? A thread? Or a post?

Nothingserious:
You are a fraud.
You passed out being taught Christian Science and claimed you studied physics.

Lols. I don't study science through the lens of your Bible or religion, but through nature.

Thus, I'm anti-Christian science.

Dtruthspeaker:
I have once or twice reasonably debated with you AND YOU COULD NOT COUNTER.

I can only do this because I have also asked those questions you thought important and I got the Answers for them.

You've started with your lies again. I won all the debates I've had with you.

Your fellow sheep above has failed to provide the scientific evidence showing his god exists as I requested. Instead, he posted biblical teachings as proof.

Can you help him out?

I'm banking on Vini to become a world-class player in the near future. I hope he develops well, scores and assists consistently in games, and doesn't develop serious injuries.

He's a delight to watch these days.

Nothingserious:
If we can find just a SINGLE Christian who is also a Physicist, then your point is countered and nullified.
I know a Christian must have even taught you in physics. I know there are many Christians who are professors in physics. So you see? Physics didn’t make you a skeptic any less it made that professor of physics a Christian.

Try again. Hahahahaha

Yes, there are professors of Christian science. And some of these charlatans happen to be in the Physics field.

Dtruthspeaker:
Wrong! We are allowed to ask reasonable questions and the Bible itself still satisfactorily answered them.

Lols, reasonable questions? We both know you're not allowed to question many aspects of your religion.

You can't even question your god or Jesus Christ. Lols. That means you're in mental slavery. Only a slave can't question his master.

Only skeptics and heretics question everything, whether it's religion, science, philosophy, etc.

Nothingserious:
Do you know what fraud or who a fraud is?

Anyone who looks at a list where pure and applied sciences are discussed and INTENTIONALLY TWISTS IT TO mean Christian Science is a fraud.

Stop that. You won’t grow or learn that way!

Many scientists have discussed Christian science and the charlatans practicing it.

A good example is Carl Sagan's The Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark.

Nothingserious:
Who told you Christians don’t debate on the Bible every time in Bible schools and Bible studies?

You see your life? You didn’t even know that the Bible said to test ALL spirits?

You didn’t know the Bible said to capture every vain philosophy?

You didn’t know the Bible talked so much about getting knowledge, wisdom and critical thinking?

You just stay in your small microscopic microcosm and talk about what you know little or nothing.

If you have any SCIENTIFIC law or theory that had anything to say about God, please show me now or keep silent forever!

Your time starts now!!!

No scientific evidence showing your god exists.

All you've up there is biblical gibberish.

Nothingserious:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology

Those dug deeper but didn’t think Christianity was superstitious.

Rather they understood that science was part of the tools humans would use to investigate and TRY TO USE TO UNDERSTAND NATURE.
They know science is limited to NATURE. They know there is SUPER-NATURAL beyond science and naturalistic methodology.

Please stop lying

Of course, there are many experts in Christian science. Those are charlatans that study science through the lens of religion or the Bible.

Thus, if they make any observation or discovery contrary to the will of Jehovah or the Bible, they discard it.

But real scientists study science through nature. Thus, it's observation and data that guide them, not a god or a religious text.

Hence, they're mostly agnostics and atheists. We owe them all things we enjoy in today's world, not your god.

Two sheep in accord. Lols.

Nothingserious:
You are already loosing track so soon.
And who told you Christians do not question things?

No, as a Christian you're not allowed to question the Bible. You must only follow it as a sheep.

People that question the Bible are called heretics and skeptics.

Nothingserious:
Why would you ask me about specifics when my response mentioned Christianity severally?
Stop leaning on science and defend your worldview on its own for once.

I should stop leaning on science when I'm a physicist? Is everything okay with you?

Why am I then a physicist if Physics doesn't make me understand the world I live in and see the great deception in organized religion so I can save myself from mental slavery and ignorance?

Nothingserious:
Tell me exactly what science said about God. If you can’t, then I conclude you are the one speaking and not science

There's no scientific evidence that God exists. If you feel otherwise, post the evidence here, and not your biblical verses.

Nothingserious:
Christianity can stand on its own.
Theism can stand on its own.
Arguments for Christian or theistic views can be made on their own.
Christians and other theists are also scientists.

Thus being a Christian doesn’t alienate one from being a scientist.

It therefore implies that science didn’t make you agnostic or atheistic.

You don’t really know why you are a skeptic, do you? Lol

Your problem is you know very little about the history of your religion.

In history, science and Christianity started as "enemies" with early Christians who were Catholics murdering lots of early scientists and philosophers most of which were freethinkers (agnostics, atheists, heretics).

If you don't know the history of your religion and the persecution of early scientists and philosophers, learn it now and be enlightened.

It's not a coincidence that most highly accomplished scientists are/were freethinkers. Even the religious ones only bear Christian or Muslim names but aren't practicing.

The fact is, the more you delve deeper into science, the more enlightened you become, and religious texts will consequently look childish or superstitious to you because you they're replete with tons of contradictions and scientific errors, especially the Bible.

That's why science is a key tool for agnostics and atheists.

Nothingserious:
Is it possible for you to defend your worldview without hiding behind science and technology?

No, it's not possible. What made me stick with the worldview of agnosticism is science, philosophy, and history.

Nothingserious:
Your argument is on science and God and not on prayer and science. Stop committing category errors.

Science and God aren’t alternatives.
Science never made such claims.
Only humans like you who would like to speak for science will make such bogus claims.

Again, is atheism or skepticism same as science?

Why would most skeptics erroneous hide behind science arguments to talk about their godlessness? That’s wrong. Or perhaps you are ashamed of your skeptical worldview that you can’t even defend it without hiding behind science ? Or maybe you have no reasons to back up your worldview?

Science and skepticism or atheism aren’t synonyms.

And who told you they're synonyms? But skepticism (questioning things) is a key part of science.

Or you don't know that?

Then, when talking about God, you need to mention the specific one you're referring to because there are over 5000 of Gods in history with different traits.

And who's speaking for science? Is science a human to be spoken for?

Go through the content of the pictures again and tell me the specific points you're making. Because so far, I've not seen any.

macof:
the discussion would be closed when you provide the facts you spoke about.

I haven't seen any reason to provide any facts when I didn't even ask you to believe any of the assertions I made in the first place.

Discussing those facts isn't the purpose of creating this thread. If you need to know the historical facts in the book, get it and learn.

This thread isn't meant for that.

macof:
fair enough, it is your choice to respond and how to respond but let it be clear that you cannot present absurd illogical statements from a book and cry when probed. let me remind you as i said before you made several statements about the content of the book trying to teach us what the book says telling us it has a lot of depth. I asked you why would anybody take any of that seriously and you told me Otem is a genius who wrote many facts. And so far all you have said are what you are now saying are not facts but mere "possibilities, claims" . why did you try to teach us what even you have no confidence on?

Lols. You think I'm a jobless fellow that will waste precious time here discussing historical facts in the book when this thread isn't meant for such.

You just look like a joker to me anyway because the historical facts you seek are in many of Otem's threads. But I purposefully decided not to post any here because I don't have the time to engage in lengthy discussions on that subject, which will derail the thread.

If there's any thread that needs my attention now, it's the one (link below) I made to discuss concepts, laws, principles, and discoveries in Physics which I've only been able to update four times or so within the past six weeks due to my busy schedule.

https://www.nairaland.com/6690123/all-science-key-facts-researches

I had planned to update it daily when I created the thread.

macof:
It is on record that you have failed to present any facts from the book.

I intentionally don't want to do so because the facts you seek are on different threads of the author here on Nairaland. But you're too lazy to read and only want to derail the thread with your childish rantings.

macof:
please refer to the dictionary definition of a cult
and stop acting like a dog on heat

Once you agree you're a cultist because you are a member of Nairaland, that means you're right.

It's you who need to check the meaning of cult, claim, fact, possibility since you use these words embarrassingly without knowing their meaning.

macof:
oh please cite the papers on reputable academic journals here that state "olorun is the alien or homo erectus ancestor of Yorubas"

Lols. This man is so ignorant. There are concrete bodies of evidence in the form of tons of archeological fossils showing homo erectuses lived on this planet before our own species, homo sapiens.

And you think Yorubaland is an exception? Lols. The African origin of humankind isn't even a claim but a well established fact in Archeology and Paleontology.

When it comes to the origin of humans, it's the dominant view in those fields.

It's obvious you didn't go through the links I posted earlier. You'll find the papers you seek there.

In various cultures around the world including Yorubaland, the ancients were said to be giants (homo erectuses), which are human species predating homo sapiens.

About the Olohun part, I stated this earlier: "For instance, the early settlers on this planet in Yorubaland were Olohun, Osun, Oya, Yemoja, and the likes, all of which are humanoids (giant human-like entities) who molded early humans in their image as their slaves or worshippers.

The same thing applies to all cultures around the world, including Ibo, Israel, Arab, and others. Each culture as its own unique gods and goddesses that created early humans in that part of the world."

That's my own position based on the books I read. People have various positions and theories on the origin of humanity, but evolution is the only established concept in science.

Again, I made the highlighted clear in one of my posts you quoted, but your emotional reactions to my posts won't let you see things right under your nose.

Nothingserious:
Are you aware that the surgery would have had theists or Christians among them? What does that tell you about your post and claims ?

Yes, there are many surgeons who are religionists but none of them operate on patients successfully by only praying.

They do so by applying the principles and concepts in medical science and technology.

That means, having belief in a god and praying is of no use to any surgeon, whether religious or not, to operate successfully. All that's required is to follow the principles of medical science and technology.

These principles don't require a belief in a god or prayers to work.

macof:
Why would you post something in public and tell people not to react? you can by all means feel uncomfortable with their reaction but you cannot tell me not to respond.

The person I directed the questions to already answered them and shared his thoughts.

And the discussion is closed.

Your rantings are of no use to me.

macof:
I asked you why take all that seriously, and you said because otem speaks facts. I am still waiting for the facts till now. Your inability to provide the facts from otem's book is what is getting you worked up.
to make it clear, if i was praising otem here you wouldn't say you didn't mention my moniker

You are the one who is confused and worked up, i am actually very calm and watching you embarass yourself.

You clearly don't know when to stop. Otem's book with over 1300 pages has many historical facts as well as many unverified claims.

There are more than enough historical facts I can post from it on this thread, but that will only derail the thread as the relevant parts of the literature related to this thread have already been discussed.

No need for a further discussion on the book. And if you're seeking a critical review of the literature, this thread isn't one.

macof:
i can see you are the one who needs a dictionary. you don't have to face grave consequences if you want to leave before your group becomes a cult. many cults allow members leave, if members are strong enough to resist the psychological hold the cult has on them.

you should take your advice and use a dictionary

Again, you're merely speaking ignorantly. Lols.

What psychological hold does a WhatsApp group of sceptics have on its members?

You mean the group which this thread talks about has a psychological hold on its members: https://www.nairaland.com/6712597/having-doubts-faith-not-alone

Lols.

Nairaland must also be one big cult then. LMFAO The Cult of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

You're not only confused but also superstitious.

This group in question was even created by an atheist on Nairaland here in August who doesn't even take Otem's book seriously. Lols.

This man and his risible posts

macof:
critical thinking isn't my forte?? but it is yours

what critical thinking made you post this?


or this

This shows you're not widely read. Is Otem the first person to talk about UFOs and aliens?

Lols.

You don't know UFOs (unidentified flying objects) and UAPs (unidentified aerial phenomena) are active research areas in the US military, and in the Astrophysics, and Extraterrestrial or Planetary Science (SETI) departments of various schools?

Lols.

There are even various papers on the subject published in reputable journals.

macof:
You are the one who started talking about what Otem said …he said this, he said that. When asked for facts you start crying
Next time if you don’t want people to comment on what your master Otem says don’t mention him. You can’t bring up topics in public and not expect reactions

When I started talking about the book in relation to the other literature on the comparison of Orunmila and Socrates, did I mention your moniker or direct any question to you?

The questions I asked about Orunmila and Ifa are related to some parts of the latter book, and I have since got answers to them.

These questions were not even directed at you; yet, you're so worked up on them. Lols.

Again, if you're looking for facts or fiction in Otem's book, this thread wasn't created for this book.

You can read the title of the thread again and the OP.

And then, why are you so worked up on the book when it's not the only literature or resource I mentioned here? Lols.

macof:
lmao you guys even have whatsapp and facebook group . is that where you learnt all these things you were teaching earlier

Many atheists and agnostics have a group online via websites, Facebook, and WhatsApp groups, and members can leave whenever they wish.

macof:
my brother, you are in a cult and you don't even know

You're very confused and don't know what a cult is.

The only WhatsApp group of skeptics I belong to only posts things a couple of times in a month. No ritual, dogma, strict rules, or commitment from members, and anyone can leave at anytime without receiving any backlash or criticism from members.

Is that what you call a cult? Can anyone leave a cult or religion without suffering grave consequences?

I see critical thinking isn't your forte.

If your assertion is true, well that makes every group a cult then.

You need to make use of the dictionary more often because you're clearly ignorant of many words you throw around here in English.

You just read some childish remarks on Nairaland and laugh

macof:
let me be honest, you are the childish one here acting like a bi*ch over a book written by someone else. or are you otem himself pretending to be someone else? either that or you have built a cult personality around otem

you made several statements about the content of the book trying to teach us what the book says telling us it has a lot of depth. I asked you why would anybody take any of that seriously and you told me Otem is a genius who wrote many facts. And so far all you have said are what you are now saying are not facts but mere "possibilities, claims" lmao

isn't that why i said all you have said so far is best fiction and not fact...did i not ask you to tell us the facts in the book?

you have the chance now to tell us the facts in the book.. or there are no facts??

You're quite confused and contradicting yourself, Mr cultist. You continue to talk ignorantly about a subject you know nothing about, looking for a cult where there's none.

This thread is not a critical review of the book as the title of the thread shows; hence, any further discussion on the book, whether it's facts or fiction, is derailing the thread IMO.

I have got the answers to some of my questions earlier (related to certain claims in Otem's book) on this thread and in the book about Orunmila and Socrates.

If you need to read the critical review of the literature, when anyone of the readers feels like creating a thread on that, you might know.

Then, I don't know why I should waste my time answering your questions when you can look for your own answers yourself and form your cult personality around the writer as you wish.

While some readers (myself not inclusive) have suggested creating a group of freethinkers on one of Otem's threads, the writer clearly warned them to make sure the group doesn't become a cult.

Still, there are various public groups of freethinkers and atheists on WhatsApp and Facebook for interested people.

You can rest with your cult idea now. It only exists in your imagination.

Olu317:
1. Honestly, I have seen the posted part on NL but pay no attention .

Beside, anything written that defamed Orunmielaa is not worth reading for me since I am familiar with many of the world's oldest foremost ancient religion.

Seriously, I am more vast than such assumption based thesis on Orunmielaa. So, Otem written is far below what I have read and not necessarily needed for me.

You may call pride but I donot see it that way since I am very knowledgeable on Africa's different ethnic groups history be it religious aspect,economic development, science etc.

Lastly, I hope and wish you the best but know that Ifaodu acknowledge other religion both Christianity and Islam existence but disagrees with Islam even if these two have history and account in Ifaodu Corpus. So, I see no reason I should overstretch myself on what does not conform with Ifaodu corpus

Okay.

Supreme145:
Thanks for the compliment, I will put it into consideration

You write well. Please, consider the advice.

The confused, jobless JW slave doing what he knows how to do best on Nairaland: posting foolish comments.

Otem is the nemesis of the religious slaves