₦airaland Forum

ekt_bear: Stop being dvmb. Haitian currency is not worthless...it has a specific value. There are people willing to buy and sell you Haitian money.

If Nigeria had decided not to accept Biafran pounds, then would there have been anyone willing to buy it? No, there would not.

How on earth can an economist determine the exchange rate between Nigerian money and Biafran money? Or of ANY two currencies, for that matter? Currencies are traded by individuals and/or governments according to supply and demand. Nobody writes a formula saying this is what the exchange rate should be.

Are you claiming that Biafran pounds were being accepted by anyone outside of Biafra?

Stocks, bonds, currency, potatoes, wheat, pounded yam, etc all appreciate and depreciate in value. So how is the analogy silly? Or do you think that there are special rules for currency that don't apply to other investments/assets?

ekt_bear: Stop being dvmb. Haitian currency is not worthless...it has a specific value. There are people willing to buy and sell you Haitian money.

If Nigeria had decided not to accept Biafran pounds, then would there have been anyone willing to buy it? No, there would not.

How on earth can an economist determine the exchange rate between Nigerian money and Biafran money? Or of ANY two currencies, for that matter? Currencies are traded by individuals and/or governments according to supply and demand. Nobody writes a formula saying this is what the exchange rate should be.

Are you claiming that Biafran pounds were being accepted by anyone outside of Biafra?

Stocks, bonds, currency, potatoes, wheat, pounded yam, etc all appreciate and depreciate in value. So how is the analogy silly? Or do you think that there are special rules for currency that don't apply to other investments/assets?

Dada-Stephen:
This thread is now becoming interesting.
Anyways, bottomline is this;
My Igbo brothers, why not just forget the past and work towards embracing a better future?
You can not gain anything from this name calling and accusations, its like beating a dead horse.
In Nigeria today, the people that accommodate you most are Yorubas, but they are the ones you hate most, they are the ones you will still need to collaborate with to achieve or attain any achievement in this country.
You cannot afford to continue to be lone rangers.
You are Great People but Greater when you embrace others.
ANY NATION IN NIGERIA WHO TRIES TO SEPARATE NIGERIA WILL END UP DIVIDING AGAINST ITSELF!!!

ekt_bear: See my post above. Like I said...the only criteria for currency exchange is the current price on the market.

When magnanimity costs a lot of money and can potentially ruin your economy if done poorly, then one needs to be careful.

Well, who was interested in Biafran currency at the time of surrender? Who, other than the Nigerian FG was likely to exchange anything of value for the currency?

In particular, if Nigeria had refused to give anything for Biafran pounds, would those in posession of that currency been able to exchange it for anything useful?

What about the simple example doesn't make sense to you? You asked, what is the value of Afghanistan money. I answered your question by looking up the price. Of what relevance is macroeconomics in answering your question?

The point of this discussion is now how confusing economics is as a subject to you.

ekt_bear: Do you not understand my post? Do you have difficulty reading English? What I want is additional context for what seems arguably a very generous (arguably too generous) policy by Awolowo. I asked someone who might be able to provide this insight.

How is this any of your concern, anyways? Is the post directed at you?

You seem to have more pressing concerns...given that you don't understand how currencies are valued, yet are arguing that some arbitrary predetermined exchange rate for the Biafran pound would have been appropriate.

Face the beating I am currently giving you rather than looking for distractions.

ekt_bear: Lmao. OK. So clearly you don't know anything about currency. You claim that the exchange rate is something that an economist will calculate rather than the market determine itself.

Shouldn't you at least talk to one of these economists so they can disabuse you of your notions?

Can economists calculate the price of potato too for us? What the "right" price should be of it?

What of oil?

Can you ask one of these village economists you know to do that, so that we can get rid of the stock markets, exchange boards, etc and just ask your village economist for how much things should cost?

ekt_bear: Incidentally: http://fx-rate.net/HTG/

One USD is approximately 43 Haitian Gourdes.

ekt_bear: If Nigeria today wants to buy some land in the US for an embassy, here is what they'll do:

1) Visit the forex market, buy USD with Naira
2) Use that USD to buy the land

Given that the universe of buyers for Biafran pounds at the time of Biafra's surrender was essentially only just Nigeria, how on earth do you expect to dictate the price at which Nigeria buys your money

If you are selling a hat, and only one person wants to buy it, then you are in no real position to expect a good price for your product.

ekt_bear: I even misunderstood this whole 20 pounds thing before.

What I thought was that bank records or something were lost, and everybody was getting 20 pounds regardless of the amount of cash they had before.

But what appears to have happened is:

1) Wealthy Biafrans took their money from Nigeria to Biafra
2) They exchanged this money for Biafra money
3) This money eventually became worthless
4) But they expected to be able to exchange the Biafra money for Naira at the same rate they converted

Unfortunately, this is not how life works. I bought a small amount of Hewlett-Packard stock a year ago, it has lost 30% of its value. If i want to sell today, I'll lose money.

Nobody is under any obligation to insulate you from risks like this.

ekt_bear: I've actually taken macroeconomics (and micro, for that matter) before. And done quite well in those courses, for that matter. However, the material is not particularly fresh, nor is it something I use in my career or daily life.

But none of that is particularly relevant.

The question we are asking is, "How much is currency X worth at time Y?"

Since "worth" is vague, we can be a bit more precise and say, "what is the best price I can buy a unit of X at, and the best price I can sell a unit of X at?"

Phrased in this way, I can look up the price of a barrel of oil, a bushel of wheat, a euro, etc. All of these resources are fairly liquid and are traded on markets.

The price of these goods at any point in time is a function of supply and demand. Economic factors might come into play into predicting price movements, but from the perspective of current value/price, they are irrelevant.

ekt_bear: Anyway, Katsumoto or someone else who is very well-versed in Nigerian history...why did Awo give them even 20 pounds?

He should have given them 0, no?

Him giving them something valuable (Nigerian pound) for something worthless (Biafra pound) was essentially a massive transfer of wealth from Nigeria to Biafra. In effect, Nigeria was paying for the Biafran war.

Why did he do this? Awolowo was wrong to have done that, in my opinion.

ekt_bear: I will print my own Bear Kingdom money, with an official exchange rate of 20 Bear Dollars to USD.

Clearly the US government would be evil to not accept my exchange rate, yes?

This whole discussion is r3tarded. Supply and demand, yes? If nobody wants to buy what you are selling at the price you want, then find another buyer, right?

How can the person SELLING Biafran pounds dictate to the buyer how much to buy it for?

If you don't like the price the Nigerian government is offering for your Biafran pounds, find another buyer who will give you hard currency for it.

Surely there would have been some Swiss or US bankers who would have been happy to exchange gold, dollars, or swiss francs for the valuable Biafran currency......

ekt_bear: Lord Almighty. Currency is one of the things you don't play with. If you exchange Nigerian pounds for useless Biafran currency, you'll create massive, Zimbabwe-style inflation.

God bless Awolowo for not doing something that stvpid.

ekt_bear: So this whole 20 pound saga was you guys b1tching about Awo not giving you a nice exchange rate for your worthless currency?

Lord Almighty. So when does the loser of a war get to dictate to the winner at what rate the winner must buy his WORTHLESS currency
You are entitled to your opinion but not to your facts.

How can you make me buy something from you that you and I both know is worthless, which nobody else on earth has any interest in buying?

ekt_bear: My question at this point is, why did Awo even do the 20 pound currency?

Even that is too generous. The Biafran currency was worthless.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what exactly the 20 pounds was in exchange for.

ekt_bear: http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amount=1&From=AFN&To=USD

So currently, I can go visit my bank and purchase X units of Afghan currency for $1. If Afghanistan stabilizes or strikes oil somewhere, no doubt the demand for Afghan currency will increase.

Anyway, this is pretty much supply and demand...like trading potatoes or wheat. Forex is actually the biggest market by volume. There are some macroeconomic aspects no doubt...but from the perspective of someone asking the question, "How much is currency X worth today?", that is a fairly self-contained question with a clear answer.

No, they convert to some other currency. At which exchange rate? What ever the market (supply and demand) is willing to bear.

Anyway, long story short....the only demand for Biafran currency at that time was Nigeria and Biafrans. Nobody else had any interest in it. So the value of the currency upon Biafra collapsing was pretty much zero..

ekt_bear: Supply and DEMAND. Where was the DEMAND for Biafran currency? How does one set the price?

Who had any desire for Biafran currency except for Biafrans?

Were Biafrans able to buy guns, weapons and food from abroad using Biafran currency? Or did the seller demand hard CASH or gold.

Do you know the difference between a hard currency and the currency any little fly-by-night or insignificant country produces?

ekt_bear: And he debunked them when he was alive. So....what else is there to say?

ekt_bear: What should the exchange rate be between what was at that time a strong currency (Nigerian pound) and a worthless currency (Biafran money)?

Nobody was under any obligation to exchange useless and valueless currency for something real........

Dada-Stephen:
The painful thing is that only half of the Biafran Civil War Story was said.
Why has Chinua Achebe and his miserable cohorts decided not to write in their memoirs that the International Community intervened and the then Federal Government of Nigeria offered to make a food corridor to Biafra for the sake of the Civilians and Ojukwu refused, saying anything they want to give them must be through the air (so that they can smuggle more weapons in through that channel)?

ekt_bear: Notice that they didn't have the stones to talk much when the man was alive.

They waited 20+ years after he is dead to open up

useless and cowardly people

CyberG: This interview gives a glimpse of ojuku's thoughts before the civil war. Although he appears to be speaking with confidence, it is clear today that all that bravado was empty posturing, like most ibos still do today. This is not the most important thing to take away from this interview. It is noteworthy to state the following:

1. Ojuku said the ibos have for a LONG time been prepared for war, and that they are READY.
2. He also said that the Nigerians are going to be surprised about what they will get, meaning they will be completely BEATEN.
3. He also stated that the WAR will not last long.

So, I ask ibos who are still defending this man, what was his plan for the war, REALLY? Ojuku, like most ibos, underestimate most other Nigerians in their intelligence, smarts, grit, business acumen which is really not a preserve of a tribe! It is an individual thing for in a family, one son can be very driven while the other is not so driven. That is why it is wisdom not to generalize. Back to the issue, can people who claim to be biafra soldiers tell Nigerians how they were prepared and if NOT, was it all about propaganda, hoping people will buy any lies, or the violence that ojuku brought will not be reciprocated by courageous, strong, brilliant and patriotic Nigerian Forces and civilians? [s]I like to hear honest and logical opinions.[/s]

exalt2009: One Question I will love to ask without be bias, where was Zik
Then when all these was going on, Was him in support or against
Because anybody has not mention Zik...Zik ?...the Igbo people should
Ask their leader that what was their contribution to stop the genocide
That you Igbo meant....Everybody knew who profit from the civil war..
Only God will save us..

nass07: Goshhhhhh!!! I like the igbo tribe, I like having them around. But when they start these their passionate hatred and lack of respect and love for other people I begin to wonder if am not making a huge mistake having unconditional love for my fellow sotherners.am yoruba, but then I hate to partake in all of these.

sconsults: [size=25pt]why must nigerians lie about everything.nobel prize nominees lists are not published until 40 years after their nomination.nigeria have produced some of the most hilarious liars in modern history philip emeagwali,dr oyibo, dr abalaka etc[/size]

Prof Corruption: That was the comment I made to your indigenisation nonsense you rant about. You won't blame your short sighted leaders but of course put the blame on someone who has no connection with your misery.

datola: For Prof Achebe, things have not only fallen apart but they are no longer at ease after the civil war. The years before the civil was his best as it was the period the classic novel was written. Hatred might have robbed him of honors of Nobel prize, more classic novels. This has culminated in his recent Memoir of the civil war which is brewing more hatred among the people who are supposed to unite and fight the common enemy.

This particular work is unclassic and should be condemned by all Igbos who are interested in the advancement of the most industrious tribe in Nigeria.

Dudu_Negro: You ignored it because you knew if you responded to it you will be led into a den of traps from which a rescue will be impossible.

Your claims are filled with flaws. Ibos must answer why Ojukwu fought this expensive war knowing before goig in he had no means to sustain the battle. You cry genocide but you have no defining resolve for why this was necessary.

Congratulate yourself for ignoring my question.

k2039: [color=#FF0099] You are definately mad,must you bring your ethnic bigotry here,you are not any different from a racist.
Tell me your tribe,and I will show you reasons why I know you are stupid[/color]