MuttleyLaff:
They replied,
"We're stoning you not for any good work, but for blasphemy!
You, a mere man, claim to be God
- John 10:33

The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say,
'Look, a glutton and a drunk,
a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Absolved from every act of sin, is wisdom justified by its works.”
- Matthew 11:19

John 10:33 and Matthew 11:19 are reproduced above for the benefit of any not familiar with the verses' contents

In John 10:33, we see clearly Jesus being accused by the Jews of claiming to be God,
Whereas, in Matthew 11:19, we see clearly the Jews, here, taking it upon themselves to actually claim that Jesus is a glutton and drunkard

Accusations, like saying, He claimed to be God, He is the Messiah etcetera, is different from getting called names, like being called a glutton, drunkard etcetera

John 10:33 is accusation
whilst Matthew 11:16 is ad hominem

Wisdom (i.e. good decision or correct conclusion) is vindicated by works or action
What works or actions showed Jesus, as God and what actions or works showed or would qualify Jesus to be a glutton and drunkard?

The answer to the former, is that there are loads of works/actions signifying that Jesus is God
but there are diddly-squat nothing that proves(d) Jesus is a glutton, drunkard or any other negative adjective label for that matter anyone can think of.

Jesus, among his caucus or inner circle, on many occasions confirmed claims He is God.

Nicodemus, who came in the middle of the night, left, being able to draw in the lines and eventually accept that Jesus is God, from the slight rebuke and dots Jesus gave him.

So where did Nicodemvs accept that Christ was God? because in my bible he only said 'Rabbi, we know You are a teacher from GOD, for no man can do these works that you do except God be with him'. How did you spin that to mean he accepted Him as God? One question: if Christ were God, why did He call God 'my God'?

clefstone:
Thomas the Apostle called Jesus God as recorded in John 20:28. 'My Lord and My God' he said. You skipped that ma'am

How would you interpret Jesus' statement in John 20:17?

When Christ asked His disciples who they thought He was, Peter said He was the Christ, the Son of the Most High. They were alone with Him at that time, so if Jesus was the Most High, He would have corrected Peter there and then. But He actually commended Peter for the answer. I don't know why people are so blind to this.

MuttleyLaff:
Who asked you about all these or who asked for this long winded answer

The question DeSepiero asked was:
I'm wondering, 'is there any verse of the new testament which quotes Jesus directly referring to himself as God?'

I for one never once expected Jesus to DIRECTLY say or claim to be God anyway because His essence, His works, His persona etcetera proves Him to be God

We never read Jesus denying the Jews' accusation(s) that He claims(ed) to be God.

Can bet my bottom dollar, you too know as well as I do, why Jesus never refuted, disputed or denied He claimed to be God.

The reason why Jesus didn't refute, dispute, deny or argue is because He is God

Now sticking to the area of the question, the area being that, did Jesus directly refer Himself as God

Why are you finding it so difficult in giving a binary answer, such as either saying Yes or No before anything else you write in response to DeSepiero's question.

We never read Jesus deny that He was a wine bibber either Matt 11:19. So according your logic it means He was a drunk? He was about to be stoned by people who were looking for any excuse to get rid of Him. Check the time they took Him to Pilate. Did He deny any of their accusations? Did it mean He affirmed them by His silence. Bottom line, you can't use that logic.

parisbookaddict:


Jesus is the Son of God and part of God. Jesus saying he is God ignores the triune nature of God. there is God the father and he, Jesus God the son. Every bible reading christian knows this but muslims cant seem to grasp this.

I'm a christian and the Trinity doctrine doesn't sound scriptural at all. Why is the Son of God in the bible and no God the Son? This should be a major belief and it is not stated in the bible. Jesus is divine because He came from God, He is not God Almighty. Does God Almighty have a God above Him? Now check Christ's statement in Rev 3:12. Think about that.

Amberon11:
Since you claim to know so much, tell us why God the father refers to Jesus Christ as God in Hebrews 1:8.

Then read verse 9 and it says ''God, even THY GOD...'' So, whose God is that part referring to?

You didn't quote a single scripture to support your claim, and went ahead to to complain against those that back their belief with scripture. You are confusing the Great Tribulation with The Wrath of God. The Great Tribulation is to be engineered by the antichrist and his cronies to make it hard to worship God. Christians will very much be around that time. If not, Christ wouldn't have said ''for the sake of the elect it would be shortened''. Pls read your bible and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you.

In short, you are insinuating dat Jesus was preaching heresy, right? Matt 24. When some people were saying that the day of the Lord had already come and gone, why did apostle Paul say the day would never come until the man of sin was revealed. 2 Thess 2:8. The problem some christians have is that since they have been taught in a particular way since childhood they can't learn anything to the contrary, even if the scriptures exposing the wrong doctrine they've learnt is staring dem in the face.

[quote author=Ken4Christ post=59160765]

I understand your confusion and I am willing to assist with the truth I know which a large percentage of the Church is yet to know.

First, the end time events Jesus talked about in Matthew 24 was concerning the Jewish nation and not the Church. God's plan for the Church made up of the Gentiles was not yet revealed then.

There are two future mass rapture. The rapture of the church and the rapture of the 144,000 Jews revealed in Revelation, Chapter Seven which our Lord Jesus frequently referred to as the elect.

There are also two future great tribulation period. The first is the great tribulation period those who are left behind after the Rapture of the Church will go through. This is the multitude John saw in Revelation 7:9.

The second tribulation period is that which the Jews will experience because of their refusal to worship the image set up by the anti Christ.

The present day faithful Saints will be raptured before the first great tribulation. Apostle Paul said until we are taken away, the son of perdition will not be revealed. Our presence alone will restrain him.

But the 144,000 Jews will be raptured in the midst of their great tribulation.

This is where the Church got confused. We see only one rapture but there are two. We see only one great tribulation, but there are two. [/quote

Where did apostle Paul make dat statement? because dat is d complete opposite of what he said in 2 Thess 2.

[quote author=jiggaz post=59152676]You confuse the Tribulation Saints with the Church. After the Rapture, many people will come to accept Christ cos their eyes were opened to the reality of the Rapture. These people are the Saints ( tribulation saints) that were beheaded for the witness of Christ.

Yes they were part of the First Resurrection. The First Resurrection comprises -

1) The Church ( comprising those Believers that put their faith in Christ from the Pentecost to the end of the Church Age a.k.a THE RAPTURE ) who received their Glorified Bodies at the Rapture.

2) The Old Testament Saints that will receive their Glorified Bodies at the Second Coming of Christ with His already Raptured Church Saints.

3) The Tribulation Saints ( Comprising of those that accepted Christ after the Rapture who were killed for rejecting the anti christ) They comprise of The Jews and The Nations of the World. They will also receive their Glorified Bodies at the Second Coming of Christ together with the Old Testament Saints.
So these are the First Resurrection.

Then the Second Resurrection takes place after 1000 years, at the end of the Millennium. Christ will now resurrect all those people that rejected Him that have died and are in Hell, comprising of those from the time of Cain to the end of the Age ( His Second Coming). All these people that died without Christ will be resurrected to be given a new body that is fit for the Lake of Fire. A body that fire will be burning, they will feel the pain but yet cannot die. Just like the Believers were given Glorified Body fit for Eternity in Heaven, the Unbelievers will be given a new body fit for Eternity in The Lake Of Fire.

This Resurrection is the Second Resurrection and its for the White Throne Judgement. It's only for Unbelievers.

Just like Heaven ( The New Jerusalem) will come down to the New Earth for Eternity, Hell ( Sheol) will be cast into the Lake of Fire for Eternity too. [/q

Let me ask you a questn; which comes first, d resurrection and rapture of dead saints or rapture of d saints dat are alive at His coming?

owoleola:
Okay,first of all that place you brought up as a reference does not say the beast had killed those saints,just an excerpt;''I know the concluding part of that verse may appear as if they had been saints who had witnessed the reign of the antichrist but in my opinion,i believe that these saints had not witnessed the reign of the antichrist.

Although I understand dat it is hard to change a view one was brought up with, but your statement there is curious to say d least. Now let's read it:
''...and I saw souls of them dat were beheaded for d witness of Jesus, and for d word of God, and which had not worshipped d beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or on their hands...''
So, sir what part of dat scripture is not referring to d saints being killed by d antichrist? Or, how do you explain dat scripture?

D rapture is in dis order: d first resurrection of d saints and their being raptured, followed by d rapture of d saints dat r alive. Now, in Rev 20:4-5 d apostle John saw d souls of those dat were killed for witnessing abt Jesus, n who were killed for not worshiping d beast or taking his mark. He said they were part of d first resurrection. How come d first resurrection involved those dat were killed by d beast, if d beast did not appear before d rapture?

I've been a christian for many years. Only dat I didn't start as a christian. I am talkin abt bein a christian and not claiming christianity as a religion. Thanx.

Angelica? Sorry, am I to believe all these stories or d bible? D very elect being nearly deceived and all dat? I want scriptural support, not some story I can't vouch for pls. Thanx.

[quote author=shadeyinka post=58993023]

All the three main ideas are correct.
1. Rapture before Tribulation
2. Rapture mid Tribulation
3. Rapture after Tribulation

Jesus says no one knows, not even Him, save the Father.
And Jesus says watch and pray, for you do not know when your Master, the Son of man will come


...like a thief in the night.[/quot

But apostle Paul in 2 Thess 2 while reacting to those sayin d day of the Lord had passed said dat day would not come until d man of lawlessness had been revealed. What's your take on dat?

[quote author=obataokenwa post=58984144]The Israelites don't believe in Christ as he's the Messiah cos their believe is that they will see him come down from heaven...

The rapture will sound and those of us that believe in Christ will be raptured... after that, the heaven will be shut and devil will rule for three and half years... the Israelites won't believe in his rule and will revolt and the Bible said they will deceive even the very elect and rarely will anyone survive that years of terror... the Antichrist will be incharge of all the world govt and you won't buy or sell except you carry their mark on your head which means automatically selling your souls to them.. after three and half years, Jesus will appear in the sky with the saints to gather the remnants of those that didn't collect the mark of 666 and they will be saved and reign with Jesus for one thousand years(milennial reign) on the earth... no more devil and death cos they will be chained till after that one thousand years after which... The Almighty God will appear for the Great white throne judgement where everyone even the angels will be judged... His appearance alone will tremble the whole earth and the mountains and oceans will even melt away and the whole earth will run for their safety but none will escape His judgement...

The scriptures are all their... but need to research on all to come up with a good reference...

Revelation 20:1-15 should help you while I get more. [/quote
Thanx bro for your contribution. But Rev 20 shows dat tribulation comes first.

felixomor:
The tribulation comes first.

Read & Follow Matthew 24 to End

Thanx bro. Dat's wat I read in d bible too. But where did d popular belief dat rapture is first comes from?

Shalom to my christian brothers and sisters. Pls something has been bothering my heart for quite a while.
Before I became a christian, I was hearing stories about the rapture, the great tribulation, the antichrist etc. D prevailing version was, and still is, that of rapture removing christians before the great tribulation. But as I study the bible the more, I have seen that the great tribulation comes before the rapture. Now, I want to be sure I'm not missing something. Pls if there are bible passages that support a pretribulation rapture, pls let's discuss. I am here to learn. Also check Matthew 24, 1 Thess 2 and Rev 20.
Pls let's be matured in our discussion as children of His kingdom. May the Holy Spirit guide us in Jesus Name. And pls if you don't have any meaningful contribution, pls you don't need to be part of this discussion. Thanx.

D army chief is a mallo guy. They r not known to be intelligent.

[quote author=Earthkumy post=57879039]
go back to the post and take the verses one by one and you will understand why Jesus made some statements ok[/quote

I read d post, n there is nothing in it to address d point I raised. You can't use d 'He was on earth' argument here because He was already back in heaven before makin d statement.

adelee777:
If our Lord Jesus is d same as God, pls explain Rev 3:12. Does God have a God? Also Rev 3:21. D person Christ will grant to sit on His throne, is dat person equal to Christ?

You shld also note dat Christ made d above statements AFTER He went back to heaven. Also, Stephen saw a vision of heaven n saw 2 Persons; Jesus on the RIGHT HAND of God. So, pls explain.

If our Lord Jesus is d same as God, pls explain Rev 3:12. Does God have a God? Also Rev 3:21. D person Christ will grant to sit on His throne, is dat person equal to Christ?

12. Their women r beautiful. 13. Their men r boneheads.

Keenysbojan:
I was reading my bible today and i noticed that even the bible warned us about APC But obviously we don't read our bible.
Please take your bible now and open your bible to Proverb 24 vs 21-22
21. My son, fear the Lord and the king; Do not associate with those that say CHANGE;
22. For their calamity will rise suddenly, And who knows the ruin those two can bring
you see now fa?

lmao!!!

[quote author=Kemperor post=57375838
As a result of the foregoing, you can now identity and differentiate the reasoning capacity of both groups.

Ehm... D exression ''reasoning capacity'' n 'hausa' r mutually exclusive. They can't be used in d same sentence.

@op i have to advise u. Pls when kunnu has stayed for 4 days without refrigeration, don't take it. One of d effects of taking it is what haapened to u in ur writeup. N stop cooking indomie with dry leaves. It's not healthy for d brain. Thanx.

Kemperor:
The Northern leaders think they can brainwash us like they do to their alimajiri and foolish youths...

Barbarian Northerners

Thank God for history...

i live in the north. One thing i've noticed is dat d way a 10 year old almajiri wld reason is d exact same way a hausa professor wld reason. As in they generally lack analytical ability. They r not cut out for administrative work, or anything dat involves d use of d brain. They r best at barrow pushing, shoe shining etc. Imagine a northerner bcoming d president n things going back to pre-1999 nigeria within 2 years. I'm sure if obj n gej had been northerners we wldnt have experienced ict devt like how it is now, cos they won't see it as being necessary.

SmartMugu:

Never heard of this version before. How can the heaven mean the whole universe? Are you saying we are all living in heaven now cos earth is a part of the universe? Where then do people waiting to go to heaven go after they die here in 'heaven'? Kindly clarify.

i mean d ''heaven'' in dat scripture means all other parts of d universe apart from d planet earth. Take for instance in psalm 8:3, 19:1, u'll find out dat heaven is not used only in d spiritual sense, but to also refer to everything from d sky n beyong. God bless u.

''in d beginning God made the heaven and d earth''. The ''heaven'' being referred to hear encompasses d whole universe. Ie all d planets, galaxies etc. So God created all of dem.

lightblazingnow:





Receive it. Your father gives you

i know it's a gift, n dat it is good. D part dat is wrong (with ur orientation, dat is) is dis idea dat if u pray in ur natural language God will not hear u properly or directly. Dat orientation is making u sound like a pharisee.

one thing i don't understand with pple dat promote speaking in tongues as d most important christian experience is dis: y do u need to bother if demons understand what u r discussing with God? Is it dat d demons will overwrite whatever God plans to do? Pls, stop limiting God's power by ur wrong orientation.

missdivineprove:
@NPcomplete, thanks. you are correct. Your example is funny though but its true.
My complaint is not about my own music yet, because I am still preparing/rehearsing. The little one I do now are testing work. When am done with my rehearsal, you will love my music.
My post is on general view.

from ur reaction n response to dat guy's writeup, i can discern dat u r a true child of God. Pls keep it up. God bless u.