₦airaland Forum

Kaecy5,

The bible teaches me that the only way to make heaven is to accept Jesus Christ and become born again, clearly stating that no one will ever get to the Father expect through Jesus Christ.

Does that mean that only Christains will go to heaven? If yes, I believe it means that non Christians will go to hell abi?

Unfortunately, we are dragging this issue to mean that religion is the root cause of the problem this thread highlighted and not the injustices in the middle east.

Arafat before he died was married to a christain, not a moslem, Arafat had pictures of Jesus Christ in his home.

If the symbol of the Palestinian struggle then married a Christain (who according to some quotations here should have been killed) then we should know that ordinarily only politicians will take advantage of religion to achieve their own selfish aims.

Even Saddam had a christain as the 2nd most powerful man in Iraq Tariq Azeez (even when the population of christains in Iraq is about3%) and no one dared attack christains while Saddam was in power. Saddam was reported to have always supported the christains in all they did especially on festivities.

Why is Saudi Arabia (the home of the 2 most important places as far as Islam is concerned) not killing every non muslim including the Westerners that work in Saudi Arabia.

If anyone cannot abide by the rules in a place the person should leave just as I do not have anything against Sharia implementation in Zamfara State, it is about democracy and what the majority wants.

Again I ask, do we have things that Sharia forbids that Christianity tolerates? Is it rape, brothels, alcohol, stealing etc?

@TayoD,

I hope you stop shooting yourself in the foot.

Bush clearly stated that God told him to attack Iraq. I heard that on CNN, not beer parlour gist. I take God beg you, stick to what you are sure of.

You see, we will make progress when we reduce all these disagreements to simple question and answer sessions as it seems logical statements or long ones tends to make the posts appear open ended.

That was why I insisted on asking and getting answers to basic questions like

when did the people of Palestine begin to depend on aid to survive/
who did the Israelites meet in the present day Israel when they decided to form a state after the holocaust?
what are the real reasons for the hatred in the middle east?
is US really fair and objective in its handling of the issues sine it sees itself as the policeman of the world?

@TayoD,

Let me help you here, list the insults or abuses you believe I sent your way and I will list mine based on the very posts you reproduced.

The problem I see here with your failure to come to terms with who started what is that you have a personal disctionary of what constitutes insults, not a universal one, put differently, you set the standards and proceed to judge others by your own standards not a universal one.

Again, it is ok for you to ask who migrated to another persons land first. Why are you not asking for the original owners of the land to claim their lands so that all these will end if you are really out for fairness?

Chxta,

How many people even realise that the garden of Eden is in the present day Iraq or that the area that Israel was accused of killing many innocent civilians (Qana I think) was the place Jesus Christ performed his first miracle when he turned water into wine.

It is crazy to imagine that almost (if not all) religions preach peace but in reality they are after hate, lies, injustices and blind support for evil while masking them with faith.

TayoD,

You may be the only that believes that Afam starting abusing you. Even Kaecy5 that had some strong words pointed out the name calling and you are trying to distance yourself from what you started.

It's the same problem we have in the world today where people choose to interpret things differently based on the people involved.

On th real owners of the land in question, do you really believe that Lebanese, Syrians and Egyptians left their homes and migrated to what we call Palestine today or is this version very appealing to those that do not want to ask real questions?

Assuming it is correct to state that these people migrated from their homes, what did they meet there? Inhabited or uninhabited land? Did they drive away the original owners of the lands?

On the other hand, Israel even in the bible was promised another man's land by God and you will agree with me that the original owners of the land in question today are not even Jews but the Canaanites so if we follow your theory then neither the Palestines (from your theory of migration) nor the Jews (based on the promised land version) can lay claims to the land thereby leaving only the Canaanites as the true owners of the land. Can we find anything like the Canaanites today? If yes, where are they and who are they?

However, recent history shows that sometime in 1948 and some couple of years before then, there was a call for creating a home for Jews that have scattered all over the world especially due to the holocaust.

Now, it is also on record that these Jews had to settle in areas that had other people living in these places and some were forcefully removed and resettled. Naturally, you don't expect someone that has been forcefully resettled against his/her wish to be happy about that.

Now, in 1948, a state of Israel was created but the landlords (losely used here) do not have a state and this is akin to the Bakassi people being handed over the Cameoun (assuming Cameroun is not a country) and tomorrow the people of Bakassi declares an independent state in Cameroun and the best Cameroun can get is a liberation organisation.

Why the obvious is being sidetracked on these discussions is what I find hard to believe, rather we see people spreading hate all in the name of arguements and turning logic on its head.

Kaecy5,

The good thing about a public forum is that it either allows you to make sense or it allows you to make nonsense of yourself.

If you did not understand my statement as regards the Japanese carrying out suicide attacks during WW2 then ask me for clarifications, this idea of twisting or drawing wrong conclusions from wrong premises is getting too common. I am sure I never equated the two but as far as you are concerned it is either you fully support one thing or you are totally against it. My dear, some people choose to see things in 3 dimensions not just 2.

On the people of Palestine, did the Israelites form a state from a virgin land (uninhabited by people) or did they form a state (after being resettled) by displacing people that have been living in the present day Israel?

You can choose to belong to any camp since in your own wisdom you have created 3 camps and I suppose you expect everyone to agree with your division otherwise they are wrong.

I do not belong to any camp and do not join any bandwagons, I am an independent minded human being, capable of thinking through issues, I am not the type that will swallow anything for fear of being opposed or insulted.

I feel so sad when people make statements without backing them up and yet these same people will want others to agree with them.

Use logic, facts, superior arguement to make your point, deciding who is messing up and why the person is messing up is poor style in my opinion.

I have taken time to respond to your last post because I will not oblige you a second time especially if your posts are not based on facts, common sense, logic etc.

Hmmm,

Interesting response, ok let us trash out the points raised one by one. The contents in bold are yours.

the palestinians did not even have a state before 1948!

------ Niether do they have a state today. And what naturally follows is why would Israel that was more or less resettled after the holocaust have a state today and the people they met and even displaced don't have a state?

They were under british rule from 1914-18 to 1948 until Isreal declared an independent state so the issue of whether they depended on aid before 1948 does not arise!

----- And before the period of the first world war 1914-1918 and up to 1948 when Israel declared an independent state they were under which country?

Sorry, the question as to whether they depended on aid or not is very valid and a sincere answer even from you will expose what many of us do not want to discuss.

It is overly simplistic to always talk about the Palestines depending on foreign aid without asking how they got to that point of having to depend on mere aid to survive.

It's as well as asking whether Nigeria depended on aid before 1960!

-------What could be more correct as regards the question if posed to Nigeria before 1960? Did Nigeria depend on foreign aid before 1960? Certainly NO. Has it been depending on foreign aid to survive since 1960? Certainly NO.

So where lies you justification for throwing away a question you are even afraid of answering?

What changed in the middle east that turned a people into the type that depended on handouts to survive?

Can we begin to call spades by their real names and stop this maradona style exchanges?

This is the 4th or 5th time I will be posing the question below and yet answers have refused to come?

When did the people of Palestine begin to depend on foreign aids to survive, before or after the creation of the state of Israel in 1948?

The idea of trying to bring in all sorts of parameters while avoiding real issues amounts to playing the ostrich here.

Is the question above too difficult to answer or is the answer going to put the middle east question in the correct perpective which may not favour certain people even here on this discussion forum?

And you are? Christain? Moslem? Pegan or what?

You have byline that reads For in him we live, and move, and have our being - Acts 17:28 and I suppose your insults and abuses are in line with what you state abi?

Do not turn this into a case of pot calling the kettle black.

Does the God of the Jews support the killing of innocent ones? What about Christians? Are they supposed to kill innocent people?

Anyone that supports either Hezbollah, US, Israel etc inspite of clear wastage of innocent lives certainly is not doing the bidding of the Almighty God.

I can praise the US for one thing and still condemn it for another just as I condemn the president of Iran for calling for the destruction of Israel while praising his country's decision not to bow to the US pressure on nuclear technology.

These things are based on fundamental principles of good and bad, wrong and right, fairness, justice and peace.

I don't join discussions based on any mindset but that is not the same thing as believing anything I hear especially when people will call you names if you choose not to believe their versions.

Again, I will reply any email based on the content and the context, no mistake about that.

@Davidylan,

If you are honest with yourself you should be able to point out that fact that most if not all the scenarios you painted had to do with US interests and the interests of those that align with the US.

Explaining these in detail is what I won't bother myself with at this point in time. Maybe you need to take time to understand posts well before commenting on them.

Again, you are not in a position to advice me on how I should take your posts. Whether I choose to take your posts literalily or not is my prerogative, not yours.

Wrong again, I do not believe that only muslims carry out suicide bombing. Suicide bombing has been in effect before the middle east crisis. Suicide bombing was what Japan used to wreck havoc at Pearl Harbour where the pilots that flew the planes/fighter jets were well aware of the mission and they felt they were doing it for their country.

So, I only stated I was a christian so you erase from your harddisk that because I don't agree to the inconsistent and sometimes wrong policies of the US that I must be a muslim.

@TayoD,

Make no mistake about it, those who may preach peace may be the most ready for war.

That I complain about rudeness does not mean I will stand by and watch people like you make silly remarks and keep quiet.

Sorry to disappoint you, I am a christain and a practicing one for that matter, certainly not a religious bigot.

My position remains that those who find it supremely difficult to discuss intelligently will be the first to resort to personal abuse and insults.

I leave you to continue in your ignorance. People like you will want to answer every question even if you keep giving wrong answers.

In your well rounded intelligence anyone that does not agree with your views even if narrow minded or senseless is a paid agent. Using the same analogy, would it be correct to state that you are working for Bush or Rumsfeld (that is if you know who Rumsfeld is anyway)?

@Mariory,

I am clear the people in US are not starving but that's because the US feeds on the sweat of other nations and they do not depend on aids from other nations, they arm twist other countries to do their bidding and that's wrong.

Have you bothered to ask why US is heavily indebted (over $7trillion as at 2 years ago) and is seen as making progress whereas Nigeria just cleared a total debt of about $32 billion some months ago?

Have you checked to see if the US really pays for oil or just prints out the money while it gets oil for free?

Maybe you failed to notice that Iraq or Saddam became a problem the moment he decided to sell crude oil in a currency other than the dollar?

My dear, I have a lot of friends and relations working and living in the US, I have business relationships with Israeli interests, yet these things do not blind me to the extaent of praising what needs to be condemned or condemning what needs to be praised.

Unfortunately, in life, it is not the good that you do that people remember you for, it is the bad and that means that as much as possible we must try to do the right thing all the time if possible.

Why isn't anyone answering the following question?

When did the people of Palestine begin to depend on aids to survive, before or after the creation of the state of Israel in 1948?

@TayoD,

TayoD:
I am beginnig to think you are on the pay-roll of these guys. While I do have my bias for Isreal, I can discern blind support when I see one.

Don't worry too much I have seen a lot of people that think they know what they no nothing about.

Who cares about your bias? They say when the blind lead the blind there is serious wahala so wash your eyes well to make sure you are really discerning well.

Iran till date has not gone against its obligation to the international community as regards nuclear technology. That the US and Israel believe the main goal is nuclear weapon is a matter of opinion and I ask, when has the right of a nation become a matter of what another nation thinks?

Iran is a signatory to the NPT and though US is a signatory, they keep producing nuclear weapons, Israel on the other hand refused to sign the NPT and what that means in simple english is that Israel can afford to produce nuclear weapons everyday without anyone stopping them because they have refused to ratify the document.

As regards the president of Iran, the man is really intelligent, you need to hear the man discuss issues even though his call for the destruction of Israel is wrong in my opinion, you can never take it away from the man that he is sound upstairs.

And if you can't live with the statement above, feel free to jump into a lake.

it is people like you that open their mouths to say rubbish and yet you imagine you know what's up.

@To - chi,

nnajiafam@yahoo.com will accept your emails and we will take it from there.

@Dayokanu,

I believe you should be mature enough not to start making ridiculous accusations. If you cannot stick to the topic and dwell more on it as against personalizing issues then take a hike.

Kaecy5,

No, I do not need to watch any particular channel for me to change how I look at issues.

Terrorism, a word I believe is in the dictionary if applied to every entity that carries out acts that are seen as acts of terrorism will see countries like US, Britain, Israel labelled terrorist nations.

Why will the acts of some countries be termed collateral damage while those of others are termed terrorism?

I am happy with the way more and more countries are objecting to taking dictations from the US. It is not only in the middle east, go to South America and see the new awakening, countries are choosing to do what's best for their people and not what's best for the US.

Have you ever heard anything about unfair trade practices where the developed countries will make it almost impossible for you to sell your goods at the correct price and yet expect to you to pay very high for theirs?

My dear, people do not need aids to survive, all we need is fair play and justice.

@Mariory,

Yes, the people of Palestine may not be happy because a syndicate have decided to withhold funds that was supposed to come to the government (since the criminal introduction of aids dependency) just as a lot of people in the US are not happy with the Bush administration for the many lies and increase in the state of insecurity the world over.

@Mariory,

Mariory:
In that case we also need to know the questions that were asked to the public involved in this survey.

Take a look at the survey as reproduced on the first 2 posts on this thread by the original poster.

TayoD,

Somewhere on this thread, someone questioned why the people of Lebanon or Hezbollah did not fight Syria for occupying Lebanon whereas they were fighting Israel for occupying Lebanon.

It seems that what sells the most is what the US wants to sell and not what should sell.

We saw the same thing in Iraq where WMDs were repeated over and over again until people started believing the lies.

Today, Bush will hardly finish a sentence on terrorism without mentioning Syria and Iran.

Is it because the 2 countries don't have good diplomatic relations with the US? 15 out of the 19 suspected suicide bombers on 911 came from Saudi Arabia not Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria or even North Korea.

Did you hear what a present member of Parliament said on CNN when discussing the alledged gassing of the Kurds by Saddam in 1988? The same man said he was in US to complain to the government and he was told that the US does not have any problems with Saddam and would not want to compromise the healthy relationship between US and Iraq.

That explains why the US never condemned the gassing of the Kurds or the killing of some 142 people after a failed assasination attempt on Saddams life.

I am certainly not buying the many lies of Bush as they are becoming a huge embarassment to the people of US, after all his approval ratings continues to take a nose dive while he continues to sing a song only himself, his immediate family and that of Dick Cheney understands.

I only wish he will be bold enough to engage the president of Iran in an uncensored debate so he can display fully his wrong policies and strange understanding of world affairs.

Well, some of the reasons stated (as to why Naija must be seen as not safe) can be reduced or managed by the individuals as against a state of fear that objective Nigerians are freely stating while living in Britain.

This is not a political debate, we need to look at this based on the general perception of the people living in the 2 countries and the real situation on ground before we support or oppose a position.

We may start by stating the yardstick for comparing Nigeria to Britain before deciding whether there is any comparison or not.

What constitutes safety and how can specific comparisons be made without making open ended statements?

At least in Nigeria, streets or airports are not closed and flights cancelled or delayed due to bomb scares?

When did the people of Palestine begin to depend on AIDS to survive?

Have they been surviving on AIDS before 1948 or did the issue of AIDS come about after the 1948 creation of state of Israel?

@ChidiChris,

So, you are able to see the invisible hand of Iran and Syria or is it because Bush said so?

At least the man is delivering on his campaign promises, not so?

Just as Hamas won a landslide in Palestine, I hope the US understands that a democratic middle east will see the influence of the US reduced to near zero level.

Very interesting thread.

Britain of course is certainly not safer than Nigeria.

Agreed, poverty or put differently, failure of leadership in Nigeria has caused a lot of problems but in terms of safety Nigeria is a fairly secure place to live in when compared to a place where bomb scares and gang related killings or racially induced murders are common.

Fizofly,

Check your website to make sure its showing what you intend to show to the public. Presently, your folders appear as against the main site.

Who does not know the importance of Afghanistan in crude oil business as regards transportation/pipelines?

Why did the Bush host the Taliban as the governor of Texas even when it was clear the style of the Taliban?

I only hope that we make the bold step to attempt to understand what we are interested in before stating them as this is a forum where people will judge you based on what you put down.

Did someone state that the Israelis demonstrated/opposed Olmert based on the civilian casualties in Lebanon?

@Davidylan,

I do sympathise with Israel for being hated this much but at the same time, rather than engage in activities that will reduce the hate they keep making things worse by providing the fuel for the hatred.

It does not make sense for a "terrorist" to blow up a bus in Israel and in retaliation tens or hundreds of people are killed in return.

See below a reply on another forum on Atrocities of the past - The Sabra & Shatila Massacres

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The truth is that Ariel Sharon has a long history of engaging in deliberate acts of terrorism against the Palestinians and these atrocities started way back in the 1940s and 1950s when it was Israel that feared losing their homeland. It is on record that the Israelis were some of the first people in the world to be addressed as political terrorists as they were the pioneers of the horrendous practice of deliberately targeting civilians for the kill in the name of national liberation struggle. It is on record that,

"As commander of the notorious Unit 101, Sharon led attacks on Palestinian villages in which women and children were killed. The massacre in the West Bank village of Qibya, on October 14, 1953, was perhaps the most notorious. His troops blew up 45 houses and 69 Palestinian civilians — about half of them women and children — were killed." — The Electronic Intifada.

The sad part of it all is that a notorious terrorist and war criminal like Sharon rose to become the prime minister of Israel after his numerous crimes against humanity. Even Israeli inquiry into the Sabra & Shatila Massacres indicted the man, yet he was never punished for his deliberate acts of inhumanity against his fellow man. When hamas is elected into power, the West cries foul but will gladly deal with the likes of Sharon on the other side. Hypocrisy at its peak.

Today it is easy to point accusing fingers at hamas and hezbollah, but the same accusers will look the other way when Israel commits the same crimes in the name of pre-emptive attacks in Gaza and other Palestinian dwellings. Israel and their uncritical supporters have continued to make a mockery of justice and equality but I suspect that in the end, they would realise that while attempting to dribble others, they have dribbled themselves into being hated and targeted by the entire Arab world. Hate begets hate and Israel has contributed immensely to the climate of hate and violence that they are haunted by daily.

I only hope Sharon's break from his hard-line past towards the end means he repented of his many acts of terrorism and genocide for his soul's sake. Had he known the day will come when he will be at the mercy of respiratory devices- incapable of doing anything for himself, maybe he would have figured that it never pays in the long run to be wicked and ruthless even to one's perceived enemy.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I choose to focus on the cause and not the effect as it amounts to a waste of time if one intends to bring down a tree and everyday he plucks a leaf hoping that the tree will die.

Today, Palestinians are depending on Aid and my question is this : when did the people of Palestine begin to depend on Aids from other nations? Before the creation of the state of Israel or after?

When happened to the region that turned the landlord into a refugee and the "tenant" a nation?

Tenant is used here to mean a people that were resettled after the holocaust and the resettlement meant that people gave up their own lands and houses while others were forcefully removed, some killed in the process.

Can we really see peace without justice? I doubt it.

Did anyone watch the CNN PRESENTS program - In the footsteps of Osama binLaden? Many have laughed at the call for the people of US to convert to Islam but the real reason for that (as stated in the program) was that Osama was criticized by many Islamic scholars that it was wrong for him to have attacked on 911 without first giving the enemy opportunity to convert to Islam.

People, this is a MUST see!!!!!!!!!!

1-Go to Google ( http://www.google.com )

2- Type in the word "Failure"

3- Instead of clicking "Google Search," click "I'm Feeling Lucky."

4- see search results.

5- Spread the word before the people at Google "fix" it,

Hmm!!

@Mariory,

What constitutes the truth?

Well, if the title of this thread is wrong, maybe you need to start another so people can discuss based on the title you choose.

Round and round and round and round, nothing new, facts ignored, truths manufactured.

Where do you stand?

My stand since morning has been that Israel was over reacting and that war wasn't a solution.

Before you mislead anyone, Hezbollah wanted a prisoner exchange deal and never hinged any discussion to a particular person as you are wrongly trying to sell that one, tomorrow you will start talking about truth.

@Davidylan,

To be honest with you, I don't think I have the time to start playing this game of yours.

I won't even bother to explain the part of my post that you reproduced because the meaning is obvious and I am shocked that all you were able to make out of the post was to come to a wrong conclusion based on wrong inferences.

I am not here to side any nation because all the countries in question have one or two things that are condemnable and giving a blanket commendation you you have been doing as regards US and Israel is something I will never do in my lifetime because it is both wrong and ridiculous.

Enjoy.

Found this piece (From forgotten histories)

Why condemnable crimes are not punished is what beats my imagination silly as it seems we define terrorism to fit only a particular people.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Sabra & Shatila Massacres

Circumstances of the Massacres

On 6 June 1982, the Israeli army invaded Lebanon in
retaliation for the attempted assassination of Israeli
Ambassador Argov in London on 4 June. The Israeli secret
services had that same day attributed the attempted
assassination to a dissident Palestinian organization
backed by the government of Iraq, which was at the time
eager to deflect world attention from its recent setbacks
in the Iran-Iraq war.[1] The Israeli operation, planned
well in advance, was called "Operation Peace for Galilee."

Initially, the Israeli government had announced that its
intention was to penetrate just 40km into Lebanese
territory. The military command, however, under the orders
of Defense Minister Ariel Sharon, decided to execute a more
ambitious project that Mr. Sharon had prepared several
months earlier. Having occupied the south of the country
and destroyed any Palestinian and Lebanese resistance
there, simultaneously committing a series of violations
against the civilian population,[2] Israeli troops
proceeded to penetrate as far as Beirut. By 18 June 1982
they had surrounded the Palestine Liberation Organization's
(PLO) armed forces in the western part of the Lebanese
capital.

According to Lebanese statistics, the Israeli offensive,
particularly the intensive shelling of Beirut, caused
18,000 deaths and 30,000 injuries, mostly among civilians.

After two months of fighting, a cease-fire was negotiated
through the mediation of United States Envoy Philip Habib.
Under the terms of these negotiations, the PLO was to
evacuate Beirut under the supervision of a multinational
force deployed in the evacuated part of the town. The Habib
Accords envisaged that West Beirut would subsequently be
under the control of the Lebanese army, and the Palestinian
leadership was given guarantees by the Americans regarding
the security of civilians in the camps after their
departure.

The evacuation of the PLO ended on 1 September 1982.

On 10 September 1982, the multinational forces left Beirut.
The next day, Mr Ariel Sharon announced that "2,000
terrorists" had remained inside the Palestinian refugee
camps around Beirut. On Wednesday 15 September, the day
after the assassination of President-elect Bashir Gemayel,
the Israeli army occupied West Beirut, "encircling and
sealing" the camps of Sabra and Shatila, which were
inhabited by Lebanese and Palestinian civilians, the
entirety of armed resistors (more than 14,000 people)
having evacuated Beirut and its suburbs.[3]

Historians and journalists agree that it was probably
during a meeting between Ariel Sharon and Bashir Gemayel
in Bikfaya on 12 September that an agreement was made
authorising the "Lebanese forces" to "mop up" these
Palestinian camps.[4] Mr Sharon had already announced, on
9 July 1982, his intention to send the Phalangist forces
into West Beirut,[5] and in his autobiography he confirms
having negotiated the operation during his meeting with
Gemayel in Bikfaya.[6] According to statements made by
Ariel Sharon on 22 September 1982 in the Knesset (Israeli
parliament), the decision that the Phalangists should enter
the refugee camps was made on Wednesday, 15 September 1982
at 15.30.[7] Also according to General Sharon, the Israeli
Command had received the following instruction: "'[t]he
Tsahal[8] forces are forbidden to enter the refugee camps.
The "mopping-up" of the camps will be carried out by the
Phalanges or the Lebanese army."[9]

By dawn on 15 September 1982, Israeli fighter-bombers were
flying low over West Beirut and Israeli troops had secured
their entry. From 9 am, General Sharon was present to
personally direct the Israeli penetration, installing
himself in the general army area at the Kuwait embassy
junction situated at the edge of Shatila camp. From the
roof of this six-storey building, it was possible to
observe the town and the camps of Sabra and Shatila clearly.
By midday, the camps of Sabra and Shatila -- in reality a
single zone of refugee camps in the south of West Beirut --
were surrounded by Israeli tanks and soldiers, who had
installed checkpoints all around the camps in order to
monitor the entry or exit of any person. During the late
afternoon and evening, the camps were shelled.

By Thursday 16 September 1982, the Israeli army controlled
West Beirut. In a press release, the Israeli military
spokesperson declared, "Tsahal controls all strategic
points in Beirut. The refugee camps, inside which there is
a concentration of terrorists, are surrounded and sealed."
On the morning of 16 September, the following order was
issued by the army high command: " [t]he searching and
mopping up of the camps will be done by the Phalangists/
Lebanese army."[10] During the course of the morning,
shells were being fired down at the camps from higher
elevations and Israeli snipers were shooting at people in
the streets. By approximately midday, the Israeli military
command gave the Phalangist militia the green light to
enter the refugee camps. Shortly after 5 pm, a unit of
approximately 150 Phalangists entered Shatila camp from
the south and south-west.

At this point, General Drori telephoned Ariel Sharon and
announced, "Our friends are advancing into the camps. We
have co-ordinated their entry." To which Sharon replied,
"Congratulations! Our friends' operation is approved."[11]

For the next 40 hours the Phalangist militia raped, killed,
and injured a large number of unarmed civilians, mostly
children, women and elderly people inside the "encircled
and sealed" camps. These actions, accompanied or followed
by systematic roundups, backed or reinforced by the Israeli
army, resulted in dozens of disappearances.

The Israeli army had full knowledge of what was going on
in the camps right up until the morning of Saturday 18
September 1982, and its leaders were in continuous contact
with the militia leaders who perpetrated the massacre. Yet
they never intervened. Instead, they prevented civilians
from escaping the camps and arranged for the camps to be
illuminated throughout the night by flares launched into
the sky from helicopters and mortars.

The count of victims varies between 700 (the official
Israeli figure) and 3,500 (in the inquiry launched by the
Israeli journalist Kapeliouk). The exact figure can never
be determined because, in addition to the approximately
1,000 people who were buried in communal graves by the
International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) or in the
cemeteries of Beirut by members of their families, a large
number of corpses were buried beneath bulldozed buildings
by the militia members themselves. Also, particularly on
17 and 18 September, hundreds of people were carried away
alive in trucks towards unknown destinations, never to
return.

The victims and survivors of the massacres have never been
deemed entitled to a formal investigation of the tragedy,
whether in Lebanon, Israel, or elsewhere. After 400,000
Israelis took to the streets in protest once news of the
massacre was broadcast by the international media, the
Israeli parliament (Knesset) named a commission of inquiry,
to be presided over by Mr. Yitzhak Kahan, in September
1982. In spite of the limitations of the Commission's
mandate (limited because it was a political rather than a
judicial mandate and because the voices and demands of the
victims were completely ignored), the Commission concluded
that the Minister of Defence was personally responsible
for the massacres.[12]

Upon the insistence of the Commission, and the
demonstrations that followed its report, Mr. Sharon
resigned from his post of Minister of Defence but remained
in the government as Minister without Portfolio. It is
worth noting that during the "Peace Now" demonstration
immediately prior to Sharon's "resignation," demonstrators
were attacked with grenades, resulting in the death of a
young demonstrator.[13]

Several non-official inquiries and reports, including those
of MacBride and of the Nordic Commission, based mainly on
the testimony of western eyewitnesses, as well as other
pieces of journalistic and historical research, have
assembled vital pieces of information. Some of these texts,
in part or in full, are annexed to this file.[14]

Despite evidence of what the UN Security Council described
as a "criminal massacre," and the ranking of the Sabra and
Shatila massacres in humankind's collective memory as among
the most heinous crimes of the 20th century, the man found
"personally responsible" for this crime, as well as his
associates and the people who carried out the massacres,
have never been pursued or punished. In 1984, Israeli
journalists Schiff and Ya'ari concluded their chapter on
the massacre with this sobering reflection: "If there is a
moral to the painful episode of Sabra and Shatila, it has
yet to be acknowledged."[15] The reality of this impunity
remains true to this day. The United Nations Security
Council condemned the massacre with Resolution 521 (19
September 1982). This condemnation was followed by a 16
December 1982 General Assembly resolution qualifying the
massacre as an "act of genocide."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From free to hundreds of thousands of naira.

What exactly do you want? How many pages do you need? What functionalities are you looking at?

You must be very clear with what you want otherwise you will have problems with whoever is going to help you unless it is for free.

Get another GSM licence, just kidding sha.

Must it be in the telecoms sector?

Who are the Canaanites that originally inhabited the land in question today?

What if they want their lands back? Just thinking aloud as it is clear most of us take sides on this issue primarily based on religion and yet try to use logic to mask the real motive.

Christians believe that God promised Israelites the land of Canaan and they took it. Will christians complain if the Canaanites fight back even today to reclaim their lands?

TayoD,

Why is Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait not fighting with the Israelis?

Why is Egypt not an enemy of Israel?

I object to the notion that moslems are trying to turn the whole world to Islam because even based on the happenings in the middle east today we have a West led by the US that is forcing the people in the middle east to accept its own way of life and that is fundamentally wrong.

@Davidylan,

Your views could be right (say over 80%) if we take into consideration of the feeling of the Israelis and the US alone, completely forgetting about what happens on the other side.

But like Chxta stated, all that is needed is empathy to fully understand how all these pieces fit.

While the Israelis may feel they have enemies around them, I will maintain that rather than make amends or remedy the problem they are increasing the hatred because each innocent person killed (whether by mistake or by design) will add to a new set of friends and relatives hating Israel the more for taking away their loved ones.

So, in reality, Israel is not behaving like a nation that really wants to live in peace with its neighbours and unfortunately, the US is fully supporting Israel for its own selfish reasons.

It is possible to see real peace in the middle east.

Even in the north, christains still live there, I have a lot of moslem friends and my head is still on my shoulder.

The bottomline is that no matter the opinions we hold on any issues, we must show respect to people we engage in discussions and we must agree to the fundamental fact that all men are equal.

Good to know it is not about insults.

I am neither a moslem nor a jew, I am a full fledged Igbo man living in Nigeria so I really do not have any direct stake in the middle east.

I make use of discussion forums a lot and for me it remains the best place to get information (fast) and it offers people the opportunity to learn or share information they have about anything.

Put differently, regardless of our experiences, age, level of exposure, backgrounds we have one or two things to contribute or to learn from others.

On the Israeli Hezbollah problem regardless of the channel one chooses to listen to, there are certain facts that cannot be denied ranging from the initial attack from hezbollah through the Israeli response and the addmission of mistakes by the Israeli PM to the regrets by the Hezbollah leader.

As commentators or discussants, the least we could do (since we opted to discuss these issues) is to be fair to all the parties concerned while blaming or condemning what needs to be condemned and praisng or supporting what needs to be supported.

No doubt, a lot of innocent lives were wasted and even though Hezbollah caused the problem the majority of the casualties were from Israeli fire not Hezbollah (just like the people of Odi are blaming the FG and not the militants that killed 6 policemen in Odi).

Let us keep the discussion to the facts we can gather from what ever source and not see this issue as an Arab - Israeli hate game.