₦airaland Forum

Davidylan,

Do not be in a hurry to reply as you may end up making very glaring mistakes.

I never implied even in the remotest sense not to talk of support the notion that it is ok for Americans to remain on native american soil. Re-read my post again before you start making claims that do not exist.

No, my bible is not upside down, only that I practice what I preach, I do not preach for others to follow. Maybe you need to read your bible well to understand that you must stand by the truth.

Unfortunately, many may be making the devil happy when they think they are actually fighting for good.

If Israel owns the land, why did it unilaterally release Gaza Strip and is also planning to release part of West Bank?

An answer to the question above will put the issues in the right perspective.

@Seun,

This is where you are getting it wrong, you are not here to convince anyone, people should be presented with as much relevant information as possible and they should be allowed to make up their minds, you don't have to do so.

Your question does not hold water in the present issues with Israel because the lands in question were seized in 1967.

However, I will answer the question. If the native Americans wake up today and say they want their lands back, there is nothing wrong with that, infact it will be a good thing just as Mugabe is returning lands to their owners, just as Apartheid SA crumbled etc.

Whether or not the native Americans can succeed or not is another matter but in the action itself, there is nothing wrong in just, it is all about justice.

And, when people do not agree with you, it doesn't mean they automatically become hypocrites, it may mean that you are yet to see what they see based on objectivity and respect for truth.

@Toshmann,

If the post is too long, go and read other topics. I posted a link to the main website and it was removed by Seun so I had to post the main content.

@ Mariory,

Thanks for the comments. That may have been my intention anyway as I prefer you think through the posts, I am not here to spoonfeed you.

@Shango,

The seized lands that Hezbollah and Hamas are fighting for were seized by Israel in 1967, some have been reclaimed either by force or by unilateral handover. Also remember that Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982 so yo need not bring in parameters that are not necessary here and tend to compare what is happening now to issues like the Hausas claiming Igbo land or Yoruba land, far from it.

The issues as at today refer to the seized lands by Israel from 1967 unless I am getting something wrong here.

Another way to look at it is this, both Hezbollah and Hamas came into being because they needed Israel to let go of lands they illegally and forcefully occupied. Hezbollah was formed after 1982 while Hamas was formed after the success recorded by Hezbollah in driving Israel out of Lebanon.

So, which comes first, the resistance groups or the forceful invasion and land seizures?

@Seun,

Delete whatever you wish to delete from the copied post but leave the content intact so that we can get a feel of the issues of who owns what land.

I have tried to remove the names and links so I guess it's ok.

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ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT , the land of palestine.
« on: July 31, 2006, 07:29:31 PM »  

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I initiated this thread because of the necessity to give a comprehensive look to the issue of Israel's legitimate claim to the land in palestine. ATTENTION SHOULD BE GIVEN TO THE EVENTS,FACTS AND DATES PRESENTED ON THIS ISSUE.



Historical ,archaeological ,cultural and other numerous ties show that Israel as a nation existed with the capital at JERUSALEM . The  DAVID and SOLOMONIC kingdoms, JUDEA and SAMARIA  attests to this fact. The land of Israel was situated in a location also known as caanan.


PALESTINE: There is no particular nation ,culture or civilization called PALESTINE. The term palestine was a name that was later given to a particular geographical location in the middle east for  the purpose of administration and governance at different times and by different administrators.

The Origin/Root  Of The Word Palestine: From the hebrew word "peleshet" root{palash} meaning rolling or migratory or invaders,it is translated in English as PHILISTINE, the jews referred to philistines as invaders. Philistines  are mediterrenean people  originating form Asia Minor{Greeks}. They mgrated to the middle -east , after their failed bid to invade egypt ,they set up settlement to the south of israel that is GAZA,GAT,ASHKELON,EKON etc and they became ARCH ENEMY of Israel. Philistines were NOT Arabs. Philistine have since become extinct. Goliath was a famous philistine, but he was certainly NOT Arab.However the grecko-romans pronounce philistine{palash} as "PALASTINA" . The arabs pronounce  the word palastina as  "FALASTIN" . Hence  the word  PALESTINE.  However  before the arabs  adopted the name  palestine  AFTER 1967, Palestine was also used to refer to the jews.  The land of Israel was also known as the land of PALESTINE.


HOW ISRAEL BECAME  "PALESTINE": In the 1st century , around AD 70 the independent kingdom of Israel/judea was crushed by the ROMANS. Jerusalem was destroyed. After the rebellion of BER KOKHBA in the 2nd century ,the Roman Emperor HADRIAN determined to wipe out the identity of Israel. He took the name of Israel's arch enemy PHILISTINE[PALASTINA/PALESTINE] AND IMPOSED it on the land of Israel.  The land of Israel became known as PALESTINE and the emperor also changed the name of JERUSALEM  to AELIA CAPITOLINA.

Despite these invasions and persecution  some Jews still REMAIN in the land of Israel{palestine}. Despite those that scattered, Jews never ceased to exist or live in the land of palestine.

Also note that these events PRECEDES ISLAM OR ARAB/MUSLIM INVASION. This further exposed the ARAB PROPAGANDA THAT ARABS WERE DISPLACED FROM PALESTINE AND  THAT JEWS WERE "IMPORTED" INTO PALESTINE  IN 1948 TO OCCUPY THEIR LAND.


Let us continue to consider the events that occured PRIOR and TOWARDS  1948. That is pre-1948.


After the Roman conquest of Israel/judea{palestine}. Palestine became a province of pagan ROMAN EMPIRE. The CHRISTIAN BYZANTINE EMPIRE took over , then briefly ZOROASTRIAN PERSIAN EMPIRE.  With the advent of ISLAM,  The ARAB-MUSLIM CALIPH  in 638 AD took PALESTINE{PALASTINA}  away from the BYZANTINE EMPIRE  and made it part of an ARAB-MUSLIM  EMPIRE . Mixed population converted to Islam and adopted Arabic Language,subject to a distant caliphate who ruled from his capital first in damascus and later in baghdad. IN 1099,CHRISTIAN CRUSADERS from europe conquered PALESTINE. After 1099, it  was never  under Arab rule. Christian crusaders controlled palestine for less than 100 years. THEREAFTER  palestine was joined to syria as a subject province to the MAMELUKS{ethnically mixed slave-warriors whose center was in egypt} and then the OTTOMAN TURKS.  The OTTOMAN EMPIRE with the capital at ISTANBUL took control of  Palestiine UNTIL  the first world war. During the 1st world war the ottoman turks supported Germany, with the defeat of germany in the 1st world war, the ottoman empire crumbled.

Even with the ottoman rule, apart from those scattered in diaspora there were still sizable population of jews{different numbers at different times} in Israel {palestine}. At this period even those in diaspora have started to come back to JOIN those who are STILL in Israel. This was called  ZION MOVEMENT [ZIONISM}.  There was NEVER a time the jews ceased to exist/live in palestine.


After the 1st world war,the LEAGUE OF NATIONS  gave Britain the temporary  mandate to govern PALESTINE. The French was mandated to govern lebanon and syria.

The temporary mandate the league of nations gave to Britain to govern Palestine is also known as BRITISH MANDATE. During the british mandate ,there  were growing agitation to set up a home grown rule  for and by the mixed population in the palestine. THE BALFOUR DECLARATION  OF 1917 gave the parameters  to be used for dividing and establishing ARAB AND JEWISH STATES in palestine. The arabs were to take the land  EAST OF THE JORDAN RIVER. While the jews were to take the land WEST OF THE JORDAN RIVER. However the british did not implement this properly. There were some aberrations.

Due to the oil that were  being discovered  in the middle east, the british  tilted more in favour of the arabs. BRISTISH PROTEGE-Emir Abdullah form ARABIA[SAUDI ARABIA] was forced to leave the ancestral HASHEMITE domain in saudi arabia, the biritish created a realm for him that includes all of mandate palestine EAST OF THE JORDAN RIVER.  They called it TRANS-JORDAN which was later shortended in 1946 to JORDAN ,after the arabs due to greed crossed over the jordan river to the west{the jewish sector of palestine} and took some land that is known today as "west bank"{which is actually  judea/samaria} . NOTE : The word JORDAN is not ARABIC.

1948,

As the british mandate was drawing to an end in 1948, the jews declared  the establishment of the state of Israel. THE FORMAL DECLARATION of the state of Israel in May 1948 was recognized by the LEAGUE OF NATIONS and subsequently the UNITED NATIONS. The day following the declaration of the state of Israel. THE ARABS INITIATED AND ATTACKED ISRAEL FROM ALL SIDES. The arabs attacked and invaded Israel. EGYPT OCCUPIED GAZA. JORDAN OCCUPIED WEST BANK{judea/samaria} AND JERUSALEM.

Hence the Arabs occupied   GAZA, WEST BANK AND JERUSALEM from 1948 to 1967.

VERY IMPORTANT NOTE: This really exposes the ARAB HYPOCRISY and PROPAGANDA. Since the arabs were controlling and occupied  gaza, west bank and even jerusalem from 1948-1967, WHY DIDN'T THEY ESTABLISH  THE SO-CALLED PALESTINIAN STATE? because there was nothing like "palestinian people"  The people who call themselve palestinians today are ACTUALLY arabs from Egypt, jordan,syria, lebanon and iraqis. THE P.L.O was established in 1964. Note carefully in 1964, arabs were still in controll of gaza,westbank and jerusalem. SO WHY DID THEY FORM P.L.O? it was to wipe out Israel entirely from the middle east in order to ensure arab EXPANSIONISM  and IRREDENTISM. P.L.O founder Yasser Arafat is EGYPTIAN, but all of a sudden after 1967 , he started claiming to be "palestinian"

This is a quote from P.L.O executive member ZAHIR -MUSHEIN in an interview granted to the dutch newspaper "TRAU" March 31,1977.

"The palestinian people does not exist, the creation of a palestinian state is only a means for continuing  our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between jordan,palestine,syrians and lebanese.Only for a political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a  plalestinian people,since arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'palestinian people' to oppose zionism.  It is also been a "conceptual" war for ownership of the term "palestinian" which has been transfered to the Arabs whereas before 1967,"palestine" has always been synonymous with Eretz Israel and the land of Israel"




With the formation of P.L.O  and due to the greed of the arabs, IN 1967, the arabs  INITIATED and ATTACKED  Israel  in order to wipe them out completely. The Arabs LOST. Israel regained west bank and jerusalem. They took gaza and other territories. This war lasted for about six days. It is often refered to as the 6 day war.

Israel  has given back GAZA  and are still in negotiations with regards to concessions in the disputed west bank{judea/samaria} for the sake of peace. HOWEVER the arabs have never been consistent with  the peace initiatives , rather  ARABS CONTINUE TO EMPLOY ALL TACTICS INCLUDING  EXTREME ISLAM/ISLAMIC TERRORISM IN ORDER TO DERAIL ANY PEACE PROCESS. The Arabs still want to annihilate ISRAEL.


I will stop so far. However any issue/matters  arising or related to this , will continue to be discussed. HAVING SAID THAT LET US CONSIDER OTHER INSTANCES.


KORAN: The koran mentions Israel or Israelites 47 times, Jews or jewish 26 times, Christian 15 times. Koran mentions mecca{2 or 3 times implied} Medina {5 times}. HOWEVER  THE KORAN HAD NO MENTION OF PALESTINE. why? because there   is nothing like "palestinian" people.


JERUSALEM: The western wall is the remnant or the remaining  part of the destroyed jewish temple. The jews refer to this area  as TEMPLE MOUNT. However due to series of Arab-muslim invasions , the muslims built  two[2] mosques inside the temple mount, yes inside the temple mount in jerusalem. They called  one AL-AQSA mosque and they called the other one  DOME OF ROCK. Muslims claim that Mohammed went to Jerusalem  and ascended into  heaven form the DOME OF ROCK.  HOWEVER THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO SHOW THAT MOHAMMED WENT TO JERUSALEM NOT TO TALK OF ASCENDING INTO HEAVEN FROM THE SO-CALLED DOME OF ROCK. The muslims call the temple mount jerusalem HARAM-ESH-SHARIF . GUESS WHAT? The KORAN NEVER MENTIONED  JERUSALEM OR HARAM-ESH-SHARIF.

So why are they claiming jerusalem? because of greed. JERUSALEM IS NOT AN ARABIC WORD. Jerusalem predates Islam. It is a fact that when the destroyed  jewish temple  was established ,there were no mosque inside or around it. ANOTHER ARAB PROPAGAND EXPOSED. Even muslims who pray in jerusalem  face meecah/medina which is about 2000 miles away from jerusalem.


ARABS have been known to be violent especially towards the jews. The hebron massacre of 1929 and the Arab revolt of 1936-39 attest to this fact.


LET PEACE PREVAIL.


                                                                                     
IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU BELIEVE BUT WHAT MATTERS IS THE TRUTH IN WHAT YOU BELIEVE.



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  Re: ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT , the land of palestine.
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2006, 11:09:22 AM »  

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This is why i join Forums, not to abuse or be abused, but to learn at the slightest opprotunity.

The historical facts you exposed in this thread, i already know some, but i have gathered more. thanks.

I guess that is why our elders have a saying that goes thus - " He who was not around when a dead body was buried, should not rush at digging it up, but ask questions first, lest you start from the wrong place"
In effect, let us not be carried away by our emotions and sentiments based on where we meet a situation, but try and get the root cause of events, before jumping into conclusions.

It has always been the ambition of the Arab world to wipe out Israel from the world map, so one can understand why Israel is doing all it can to keep her people alive.  

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  Re: ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT , the land of palestine.
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2006, 11:49:46 AM »  

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The last statement in your post is enough reason for any sane person not to join issues with you as it is very clear that you have been thoroughly brainwashed into seeing the arabs or muslims as enemies regardless of what is happening on ground, real pity.



Events, facts and dates as preseneted by you is ok but would you believe anything that does not support your point of view even if it represents the truth?

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  Re: ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT , the land of palestine.
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2006, 02:21:54 PM »  



Events, facts and dates as preseneted by you is ok but would you believe anything that does not support your point of view even if it represents the truth?




I will CERTAINLY believe anything that  represents the fact or truth  EVEN IF IT DOES NOT SUPPORT MY POSITION. However I will NOT be  COWED by propaganda or  give in to expansionism and irredentism of the  arabs.


Israel is not  handing over  "west bank"{judea/samaria} .But for the sake of PEACE, they are engaged in discussions for some concessions for the arabs in west bank.  Even with the balfour declaration. Arabs were supposed to maintain control of land ONLY east of jordan river. But they over reached into west bank of jordan. THAT IS NOT RIGHT.

During the arab occupation of jerusalem and west bank  from 1948-1967, why did arabs still attack Israel in  1967 even when they are ALREADY OCCUPYING jerusalem,west bank and gaza? DOES THAT RAISE A RED FLAG FOR YOU?

WEST BANK AND JERUSALEM DOES NOT BELONG TO THE ARABS. That  Israel is deliberating on concessions in west bank DOES not change that. They are doing that for the sake of peace? IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE THE  ARABS  WANT PEACE.


I am not saying that  Israel should take over IRAQ,EGYPT OR JORDAN OR SYRIA. All I am saying is that Arabs and their supporters should LET ISRAEL BE.  Arabs already occupy over 90% of  the land in the middle east, they should hands off the  jewish land.





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  Re: ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT , the land of palestine.
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2006, 03:12:44 PM »  

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I just couldn’t stop laughing while reading your twisted article, you too funny, damn too funny. You sound like an Islam phobia with an irrational fear or hatred for Muslims.
From where did you get this distorted thesis?. What kind of man are you- re-writing history with glaring lies…
Oh my God! If you are a Nigerian, time is coming when you will tell people that Nigeria belongs to the Jews…Chei!
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A complete distortion of facts, you said

Quote
Historical, archaeological, cultural and other numerous ties show that Israel as a nation existed with the capital at JERUSALEM. The  DAVID and SOLOMONIC kingdoms, JUDEA and SAMARIA  attests to this fact. The land of Israel was situated in a location also known as caanan.

Fact:
The [Jewish] migration [to Palestine] gained urgency as Hitler came to power, promulgated anti-Jewish laws in Germany in the 1930s, then rounded up Jews in Germany and in the expanding sphere of German-occupied countries, restricted them to ghettos, shot them, deported them to concentration camps, and exterminated an estimated 6 million of them in the cause of racial purity. Out of this Holocaust grew the international compassion for the purpose of a new Israel as a sanctuary for the Jews."
Jerusalem (called al-Quds in Arabic) is sacred to the three major monotheistic religions: Christianity, Judaism and Islam. As a result, it has been a focus of conflict for centuries.

Conquered by the Romans before Christ’s birth, it was in the hands of Byzantine rulers when it fell to a Muslim army led by Caliph Umar in 638. In 1071, the Seljuk Turks took control of
Jerusalem, and by cutting pilgrim routes from the West gave impetus to the First Crusade. This crusade brought Jerusalem under Western control in the "Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem," which held the city from 1099 to 1187, when Saladin reconquered Jerusalem for Islam. Later crusades brought Jerusalem briefly under Western control from 1229 to 1239, and from 1243 to 1244, when it was sacked by the Tatars. In 1247, the city fell to the Egyptian Mamluks, under whose control it remained until 1517, when Ottoman sultan Selim I conquered the city.

Jerusalem remained under Ottoman control for almost exactly four centuries. In 1917, during World War I, General Allenby and the British army defeated the Ottoman Turks and entered the city. In November of that year, the British government issued the Balfour Declaration, which declared Britain’s intent to establish a Jewish homeland in Palestine, with the understanding that "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."

In 1947, the United Nations partitioned Jerusalem and the city was divided between Arab and Jewish control. In May 1948, Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion declared Israel an independent state. Israel successfully defended itself against the attack of the Arab League. During the Six-Day War of 1967, Israel captured all of Jerusalem, putting it fully under Jewish rule for the first time since the Roman destruction in 70ad

Distortion of facts

Quote
PALESTINE: There is no particular nation ,culture or civilization called PALESTINE. The term palestine was a name that was later given to a particular geographical location in the middle east for the purpose of administration and governance at different times and by different administrators.
And contradictions:

Quote
HOW ISRAEL BECAME  "PALESTINE": In the 1st century , around AD 70 the independent kingdom of Israel/judea was crushed by the ROMANS. Jerusalem was destroyed. After the rebellion of BER KOKHBA in the 2nd century ,the Roman Emperor HADRIAN determined to wipe out the identity of Israel. He took the name of Israel's arch enemy PHILISTINE[PALASTINA/PALESTINE] AND IMPOSED it on the land of Israel.  The land of Israel became known as PALESTINE and the emperor also changed the name of JERUSALEM  to AELIA CAPITOLINA.
Facts:
To understand the present Middle East conflict, we need to understand the history of those in conflict—the Jews and the Arabs. Historians often note the "family" relationship between these two peoples; some call them "cousins" because both trace their roots to the great patriarch Abraham.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam all honor Abraham as one of their patriarchs. Calling him "Religion’s Superstar," a Time magazine feature article asked: "Abraham changed history by espousing just one God, and is sacred to Muslims, Jews and Christians. Can this crossover biblical hero help heal the world?" (Sept. 30, 2002, p. 5).

The answer is: not in this age! But in tomorrow’s world, Abraham as "heir of the world" (Romans 4:13) under Jesus Christ, and as one of the saints in God’s kingdom, will help teach the way to peace when all nations will come to Jerusalem (see Isaiah 2:2–4).

In the 19th century bc, the Creator God began to work with Abraham (then called "Abram". God tested his faith many times, even promising him a son in his old age—a promise that seemed to be delayed. Abram’s wife Sarai, unable to bear children, encouraged Abram to have a child through her Egyptian handmaid, Hagar. Eighty-six years old when the child was born, Abram gave the name Ishmael to the son whom Hagar bore (Genesis 16:15–16). The majority of Arabs today trace their ancestry back to Ishmael and Abraham.
And Yes!
PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) founded in May 1964 with the aim of destroying Israel. The Palestinian National Charter (1968) officially called for liquidation of Israel.  There has been Arabs called Palestines.

You can read more on this on:  http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/booklets/tw-bk.cgi?category=Booklets1&item=1104355314s tines.

Concise Overview of Recent Israeli-Palestinian History

Nov 2, 1917 British issued the Balfour Declaration, viewed by Jews and Arabs as promising a “National Home” for the Jews in Palestine.

1936-1939   Arab Revolt led by Haj Amin Al-Husseini. Over 5,000 Arabs were killed according to some sources, mostly by British. Several hundred Jews were killed by Arabs. Husseini fled to Iraq and then to Nazi Germany.

May 15, 1948- Israel War of Independence (1948 War). Declaration of Israel as the Jewish State; British leave Palestine; Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia declared war on Israel. Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian invasion began.

April 3, 1949- Armistice - Israel and Arab states agree to armistice. Israel gained about 50% more territory than was originally allotted to it by the UN Partition Plan.

Oct. 29, 1956- Suez Campaign. In retaliation for a series of escalating border raids as well as the closure of the straits of Tiran and Suez canal to Israeli shipping, and to prevent Egyptian use of newly acquired Soviet arms in a war, Israel invades the Sinai peninsula and occupies it for several months, with French and British collaboration.

May, 1964- PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) founded with the aim of destroying Israel. The Palestinian National Charter (1968) officially called for liquidation of Israel.

May, 1967- Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser closes the straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping and dismisses UN peacekeeping force. Negotiations with US to reopen the Straits of Tiran fail.

June 5-10,1967- 6-day war . Israel destroys the Egyptian air force on the ground, conquers and occupies Sinai and Gaza, then conquers the West Bank from Jordan, and Golan Heights from Syria. UN resolution 242 called for  Israeli withdrawal, establishment of peace.

Oct. 6, 1973- Yom Kippur War (October War). In a surprise attack on the Jewish day of atonement, Egypt retook the Suez canal and a narrow zone on the other side. Syria reconquered the Golan Heights. Following massive US and Soviet resupplying of the sides, Israel succeeded in pushing back the Syrians and threatening Damascus. In Sinai, the IDF crossed the Suez Canal and cut off the Egyptian Third Army.

March 26, 1979- Peace treaty signed between Egypt and Israel.
Culled from Mideast web site

E.ben, my brother, please always supply us with the source of your article for us to verify.

Take care!


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  Re: ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT , the land of palestine.
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2006, 04:18:35 PM »  

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Thanks for the chronological order you listed the major events.

I guess quoting the sources of dates stated will help clarify issues.

We will all benefit from the truth in my opinion regardless of who the truth does not favour.

I do not take time to read history unless information that is more or less common knowledge as the events happening in our lifetime is even enough for us to know when someone is doing a bad thing.

No one needs to read history to know that Bush and Blair lied through their teeth to wage an illegal war in Iraq, no one reads to read history to know that the killing of innocent ones by both Hezbollah and Israel in the current conflit is wrong as this is obvious.



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  Re: ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT , the land of palestine.
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2006, 04:37:26 PM »  

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You did not DISPROVE anything I presented so far. PLEASE ALL AND SUNDRY  READ MY ARTICLE AND RE-READ THEM INCLUDING THE TYPOGRAPGICAL ERRORS AND YOU ALL WILL SEE THAT  I DID NOT DISTORT ANY FACTS.

Note carefully the events  pointed out by both my presentation and that of tunde's'.  If there is anything that tunde's' achieved, he ended up CORROBORATING the evidence presented in my article.  BUT NOTE HOWEVER THAT MR TUNDE AVOIDED SALIENT ISSUES. HE INFACT SIDE STEPPED THEM.  This is part of the arab propaganda.

1. The muslim -arab caliphate  took over in 638, for the FIRST time. QUESTION: Mr tunde, you did not tell us where the jews were? where they in the moon? Another question MR tunde, If the arab-muslims took over from the BYZANTINE, who were the  byzantine occupying and ruling? Is it the jews or not? Before the byzantines, who were the romans occupying, is it the jews or not? In what land did all this take place?  YOUR PROPAGANDA AND FALLACY CONTINUE TO BE EXPOSED?

2. You conveniently  avoided the issue of jerusalem. I AM NOT SURPRISED, YOU COULD NOT SPIN THAT. Everybody knows the history of islam , when it started and all that.

Mr tunde,  I do not want to be repeating  what I already wrote, read them again.


On the issue of Palestine, with reference to name, YES , I REPEAT THERE IS NO CULTURE, CIVILIZATION, NATION CALLED PALESTINE. There was NO CONTRADICTION in what I stated. I gave you the origin of the word and how Israel became known as "palsestine". It was first used by emperor HADRIAN to spite the jews, PALESTINE origianates from philistine, then grecko -romans pronounced it as palastina, then arabs pronouced  falastin then palestine.  IT WAS ALWAYS USED TO REFER TO THE  LAND OF ISRAEL.

question mr tunde:  Why didnt you tell us why the arabs all of a sudden started calling themselves "palestinians" only AFTER 1967.

You see mr tunde, another of your arab fallacy and propaganda exposed?

Let the quest for truth,fact and clarity continue.

Well, it shows that might is indeed right when the UN is useless, security council irrelevant unless the issues concern them directly.

I support the quest for nuclear weapons by any country that is interested in getting them as that seems to be the only thing the US/Israel respects.

North Korea are being petted today because they have clearly and unambiguosly told the US that a mere trade embargo on NK would be interpreted as declaration of war and that they will inflict the worst type of pain on the US in return. What came out of it? Softening of the US's policy towards NK and the US agreeing to talk with them even when the US had earlier stated that it will never do so.

I am not surprised, the US and Britain are empires built with other peoples' lives, sufferings and blood so injustices don't mean much to them.

<< please cut and paste the relevan portions of the discussion in question. If you link was to Naijaryders or another uniquely named Nigerian forum, I'll have allowed it. Thanks a million for your understanding >>

@Kaecy5

I wonder why Afam would be in a better position to respond to your post when Afam lives in Lagos, Nigeria, is a christian, watches television stations like CNN or local ones in Nigeria, reads news online or offline just like the rest of us.

However, what Afam has decided not to do is agree or believe the many distorted information being peddled by either of the extremists on the part of the Islamic fundamentalists on one hand and the US/Israel on the other.

We should clamour for a fundamental truth, justice, fairness and peace.

However, it is the duty of Israel to figure out a way to locate and kill their enemies not killing innocent ones as such cannot be excused nor can it be justified.

Transferred aggression or collateral damage do not apply here because no one reserves the right to take the life of an innocent one in this world.

Take care.

Texazzpete,

Enjoy my friend, we are trying to make the world a better place by condemning what is wrong and commending what is right regardless of the people involved.

Take care and stay blessed.

@Davidylan,

Not everyone here plays the politics of religion or blind support or condemnation of a people based on race or religion.

I am a christian and I dare maintain that Israel is using disproportionate force in its response to Hezbollah. This is common sense and the truth and the fact on ground.

People should rise up above the level of religious bigotry to call a spade by its real name.

It is wrong for anyone, group or people or country to kill any innocent person.

Hezbollah apologised for killing 2 arabs in Israel but for the many christians in Lebanon that have been killed I am yet to read or hear about apologies from Israel, all we hear are excuses or some useless justifications? What manner of justification would one give for killing someone that has not done anything wrong to you?

4 Play,

Excuse my language but you seem to be suffering from complete ignorance, inferiority complex and believe me, half knowledge they say is very dangerous.

The statement above is based on the following statement made by a human being in this age and time.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The US is not always in the right but they do make efforts to dothre right thing.It is because of the US that we Blacks are still alive.If Nazi Germany had won the War,could i imagine what they would have done to Black people.

Lets not kid ourselves either in thinking our colonial masters gave us independence because of our effforts.It was the Truman adminstration that compelled the European colonial masters as part of the Marshall Plan to free the colonial territries.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Try to learn more on the Marshal Plan and see why it worked in rebuilding Europe but never implemented or never allowed to work in rebuilding Africa.

Please, stop displaying this level of ignorance as you are ridiculing Nigerians, abeg unless you are not a Nigerian.

Well stated Medube.

Some don't even understand what the US is up to and yet they are the type that will be ready to die for the US.

It's all about politics and interests.

Someone wrote to me talking about the US wanting to take control of all the major trade routes in the world by causing problems in Afghanistan, Iraq, now Lebanon, with the ultimate aim of going to war with China.

911, world trade centre, any links? And today the world is watching Israel kill innocent ones and even when the international community is calling for a cease fire, Israel has said no simply because the US is ok with the killing.

deal4real,

Thanks for the information. And why would such jobs cost that much in the UK?

I can comfortably tidy up a job like that in a week or 2 for less than $2,000.00. Why the wide price difference?

Self preservation, self defence etc certainly are no excuses for the massacre of innocent men, women and children by Israel.

Someone wrote about 911, what was the outcome, illegal invasion of Iraq with more than 100 times the number of deaths on 911 and yet more are still dying everyday based on the lies of a few people.

I asked someone if he was against OBJ's action in Odi and he said yes and I asked him to tell me the difference between his actions and that of Israel and he started stammering.

The killing of any innocent person is wrong regardless of who is doing the killing.

Unfortunately, some of us understand the word terrorist to mean arabs or muslims because the West wants us to when in reality many non arabs or non muslims are doing the same thing, only they are now refered to as freedom fighters and not terrorists.

Real shame the world is full of blatant liars.

Let us not continue the circle.

I reproduced the page not found message on avant but I did state that I tried viewing the 2 sites with about 3 browsers and at the last count I had tried to view it with

1. avant

2. Internet explorer

3. Firefox

4 Opera.

I am not saying that your website is non existent, I am only pointing out to you that for some reasons your website isn't showing up on my browsers and someone else confirmed it too.

I am an online solution provider so I am way too clear on what my browsers will allow and what they will not allow.

Take care.

I use a regular dial up, not on broadband and won't advice you to design sites that are viewable by people with broadband because over 70% (if not more) out there don't use broadband.

The message I get each time I try to access the website is the usual

Oops, we can't open the web page you requested ,
- Error Unknown - Unknown error with URL



Please try the following:

Please make sure your computer is connected to internet.

If you have a network firewall installed, please make sure your firewall is not preventing Avant Browser from accessing Internet.

If you typed the page address in the Address bar, make sure that it is spelled correctly.

Continue your web browsing by searching the web below:

Search the Web:

Typing the domain names wrongly? I don't think so because I have not only typed them in different browsers but I have simply attempted to open them from the links on your signature.

Again, I don't have problems viewing Macromedia flash.

Enjoy!

I believe the world will be a much better place if we avoided problems rather than do damage control.

I am not competing with you neither did I insinuate that I am better than you.

Forgive my remarks even though I felt I needed to draw your attention to your very unfair comments and what you choose to call "few insults".

Let's focus on the main issues so we can see a world where injustices will be frowned at and the leaders and the led told the bitter truth about what happens around us.

deal4real,

Thanks for your post.

Feel free to contact My2cents for the testing. I can trust him based on his sense of judgement on certain issues that I have seen him comment on, right here on this forum.

Enjoy!

Ikeja, Lagos State, Nigeria.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Kajad for pointing that out.

Hi Paul,

Wonders shall never end. I never knew Wise was the same person I have been talking to since Thursday last week.

No wahala, you will have both the inverter and the dry cell battery ready for collection latest 12.00noon on Friday.

What do you mean by acting professionally? Your website refused to open on 3 or 4 occassions and I stated I can't view the site, what is wrong in that?

As I write this again, the website has refused to open and I tried opening it with IE, Firefox and Avant browsers.

Now, unless you have configured your website not to show up on any of my browsers, I see no reason why I cannot restate yet again that your website is not accessible.

Even the www.earthlinkscafe.com won't open.

My advice to you is check to confirm that your sites are accessible to the public and see if certain zones are blocked.

You guys need not worry about Texazzpete's conduct, it is typical of anyone that finds it supremely difficult to marshall out points in a discussion or arguement.

People like that simple shift focus to personalities and leave the issues. If you fall for the trap you will end up discussing the insults and leave the main issues, which by the way is what he wants since he cannot make any reasonable statement on the issues on ground.

Only those incapable of using their brains will be the first to abuse others especially when they start losing arguements.

Concentrating on the issues as against throwing invectives on other people would help.

Nilla,

The truth of the matter is that there is no justification for the killing of innocent people by any group.

That is why it is easy for some people to take sides based on religion and hide under such covers to support wickedness.

What is the crime of the innocent Lebanese who may not like Hezbollah but is being maimed or killed by Israeli bombs?

Why must innocent people pay for actions of another?

We do not have very clear explanations from those that support these bad things, what we hear mainly are vague and illogocal or at best shifting of goal posts as the facts on ground don't support arguements justifying the horror in Lebanon just because the US is cool with the way things are right now.

4 Play,

I personally don't like discussing politics as people tend to let emotions and sentiments have the upper hand in an otherwise very clear issue.

So, Israel moved out of Lebanon in 2000, when did Israel get into Lebanon and what was their reason for getting into Lebanon in the first place.

Let us refresh our minds a bit.

Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982 and that invasion gave birth to Hezbollah who helped in chasing Israel out of Lebanon. The success of Hezbollah gave birth to Hamas in the Palestine as it was now believed that the only language Israel understood was force.

Now, to the West and Israel, Hezbollah and Hamas are terrorist groups but to the people these groups represent they are freedom fighters.

The issue is not a question of Israel tolerating a militia, who determines who a militia is? Is Israel not practicing state terrorism by killing civilians in a foreign land?

The issues are clear, first Israel should go back to the pre 1967 border and return completely West Bank and Gaza Strip, not based on unilateral decisions as if they are doing the Palestines a favour.

You talk about disarmament of Hezbollah based on international law, what law is that? The type of law that has seen Israel flout almost all the resolutions passed on it by the UN and the US vetoing every single motion that it does not like against Israel.

My consolation is this, what goes around comes around, those that support this wickedness will surely be visited by such wickedness in their lifetime, if not now then certainly later.

Why do we pretend that bad is good when we are not in the line of fire?

The killing of innocent ones is bad be it done by a suicide bomber, Hezbollah, Israel, US (guilty of being the only country that have used atomic bomb on 2 civilian targets) etc.

You can never have peace without justice and fairness.

I am a christian without any intention of ever changing religion, it is important to note that being a christain is not as easy as supporting whatever Israel does as has been the case of many that never bother to discuss the real issues but will be quick to talk about terrorists and hate idealogies.

Do have a good week ahead.

Coolmanlg,

Thanks for the comments.

We should also remember that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, it depends on how you choose to view the issues on ground.

The killing of innocent ones by any person, group or country is wrong and it is a shame that even religious leaders or self proclaimed born agains have endorsed and supported the carnage going on in Lebanon.

Until we start thinking with our brains and stop being brainwashed by the Western world or the Islamic fundamentalists, we will not go far.

Ordinarily, there is no problem between religions, only politicians use religion to divide a people.

Was a christian not the second most powerful man in Iraq under Saddam even with christians being less than 3 % of the population?

Was late Arafat (the symbol of Palestinian struggle) not married to a christian woman?

Things like these will not be showed on mainstream media because they will not support the policies of people that prefer to create bad blood and enemity between people.

If Isreal is right in bombarding Lebanon, why didn't the US bombard Saudi Arabia after 911, after all about 15 out of the 19 suspected plane hyjackers were from Saudi Arabia?

Today, innocent people die in Iraq (for over 3 years now) based on the lies of a few cabal especially Bush and Blair and the world is watching and expecting things to normalize.

Trying to force one's way of life on another will boomerang just as Iran democratically elected a hardliner, Hamas won a landlside election in free and fair election, Iraq has basically said bye bye to secularism and will have an Islamic state, the president of Afghanistan just has control over a portion of the country, Saudi Arabia is ruled by a few people (disliked by many), does not practice democracy but because the Saudi oil is still flowing unhindered into the US, there is no problem with that.

When are we going to open our eyes to all the double speaks of the West especially the lying Bush and his assistants Blair and the Australian PM?

Deal4real,

Without a clear understanding of what you want me to test and the scope and/or time frame you are looking at, it will be impossible to get any meaning price tag on testing.

In anycase, testing mustn't be fee based, so if the demands are not that huge, I could do it at no cost.

Let me have the details or scope of what you want tested on the website, usability, functionality, trying to break the code etc so I can respond appropriately.

Fee based or free testers? Do specifiy what you are looking for so it will be easy for you to get responses that you need and on time too.

Todd,

If you are not comfortable travelling to Nigeria better stay put in your country.

Nigerians are proud, intelligent and hard working.

Unless you are not sure of what you are coming here to do, I find it difficult to understand the essence of your many and sometimes unnecessary questions.

If you are genuine, you need not give a single cent to any immigration officer at the airport, unless you have something to hide.

You don't contribute to the corruption and turn around to say Nigeria is corrupt.

Unfortunately, many have taken sides based on religion and it is sad.

You cannot seize a man's land and expect him not to fight back.

Israel should respond in kind and target Hezbollah or Hamas and not kill innocent civilians otherwise they are guilty of state terrorism.

It is also interesting to see the US encourage Israel because it suits them and I maintain that it is such double standards and hypocrisy by the US that is causing the problems in the world today.

Many thanks to Koffi Annan for speaking the truth yet again as regards Israel's use of disproportionate force in Lebanon even against a civilian population.

What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong, we should stop deciding what is wrong simply on the basis of the race or religion of the people involved.

This silly style of making might seem right is what is making countries to attempt to get nuclear weapons because it seems that is what the powerful nations respect.

Today Israel, Pakistan and India are not signatories to the NPT and that means that these countries can acquire and develop nuclear weapons as they like and no body has the right to question them and yet we have an Iran that is a signatory to the NPT being harassed because the US feels that Iran is developing nuclear weapon.

When has the right of a soveriegn nation become a subject of another nations feelings or fears?

Great work for the effort. I think your website is even better than some being setup by commercial/professional web designers.

My2cents, welldone for the comments freely given to MissLollie.

Just Web Services can help with both design and web hosting.

However, until we have a full picture of what you want there is very little we can do for you now.

If you have all the materials ready today and we are clear on the list of deliverables, you would have a completed project in 10 days maximum.

Wolglobal.com won't open and I find it difficult to believe that a web hosting provider is reliable when you find it difficult to even access the provider's website.

www.wolglobal.com has refused to open after about 4 tries and it's not a good sign at all.