₦airaland Forum

Coolcash1:
Can’t buy $TSLA more than $100. All I need is patience for it to drop to that zone.

I know you are being sarcastic. You get beef with Elon?

Nnamz:
So you are challenging the almighty Cathie Wood who as of 2 days ago bought $39 million of Tesla? Okay.

Cathie wood has a 5 year outlook. Would you be willing to hold Tesla for 5 years given the fact that other automakers are hot on their trail? Ford has released an electric truck. That car would give Tesla a run for their money.

ImpactCrater:
you seem to be arguing both sides of the topic.
Gold has been the most reliable store of value over history... and I see you agree that it is a store of value used as a backup for currency.
The dollar is viewed as a farce because it has nothing of tangible value backing it except for American propaganda... you also agree with that.
so what exactly is your point of deviation?

on a lighter note, only women have intrinsic value.

Not everyone would agree. Ask Gay men and priests.

ImpactCrater:
you are being ridicilous that is why it is difficult to give you a straight answer.
Gold is the most stable store of value in human history and the most reliable back up of currency and money.

What is backing the dollar which is the global currency? 20% of all the dollar currently in circulation was printed last year out of thin air. No gold backing it up. And now they want to introduce dollar in digital form.

Gold has value. But that value is extrinsic.

If people gather and say this thing has value, of course it would have value till they find an alternative. Salt and silk were once precious commodities and used as store of value.

emmanuelewumi:
For every Microsoft, Google, Amazon etc there were thousands of dot coms that are history, where investors lost 100% of their funds those who got loans went bankrupt

Margin of safety is very important and investing in assets with crazy valuations is dangerous.

Most of the dot coms had crazy valuations, PE of over 800 because of the reckless optimism of the uninitiated investors

History is about to repeat itself.

History repeats itself again and again.

Crypto is on the verge of being an aol/Netscape or being a Microsoft/facebook. We'll see.

It is easier demonizing what you don't understand

emmanuelewumi:
Can you help with the size of the deposits of these metals, ease of getting these metals and the prices of these metals?

Gold: $1879

Copper: $4.5

Steel: $5k plus

https://www.statista.com/statistics/248991/world-mine-reserves-of-gold-by-country/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/273637/copper-reserves-by-country/

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.statista.com/statistics/1168572/global-reserves-of-iron-ore/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwirjcbguNvwAhXDYMAKHQs3AtIQFnoECAQQAw&usg=AOvVaw2IoEuihf2CpyW-tmdRtX76

The data varies but i would take one.

78% of Gold is used for jewellery. 19% is stored in gold bars and bullions. Leaving 3% for electronics, medicine and other purposes. How many percent of gold is used for space exploration and radiation (from the remaining 3%).

Its not by bringing just any search result from goggle. I expected more from someone who is not lazy to do his own research.

https://goldprice.com/project/facts-about-gold/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/299609/gold-demand-by-industry-sector-share/

Afromentalist:
I understand why Seatrade always clashes with you people here. You are just too damm lazy, and moronic to think for yourselves. Infact the only reason I even visit this thread is because of Emmanuelewumi, and Seatrade (transatlanticex/logobenz).

A simple google search would have educated you lots, very easily, but you prefer to happily remain in ignorance and call people names.

Beside Jewelry (which is already a massive industry on its own), Gold is used in Information Technology (computers and phones), Electronics, Medicine, Space Technology and Exploration, Conservation techniques and the list is endless.

Gold is a necessary component to make: Connectors/contacts, Printed circuits, Semiconductors, Electron tubes, Relays and switches, Thin films and thick Films and very many others.

Now, I am not one to waste my precious time, as I am very certain you can't be educated. If I do not reply you or anyone else regarding this topic anymore, just know that you have not said anything that deserve my attention enough to elicit a response.

References:

The Demand for Gold by Industry
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/BF03214603.pdf

Business Insider - The Many uses of Gold
https://www.businessinsider.com/many-uses-of-gold-2012-9?r=DE&IR=T#gold-is-used-in-space-to-reflect-radiation-and-stabilize-temperatures-12

Gold the most useful Metal
https://geology.com/minerals/gold/uses-of-gold.shtml

Now compare that with the uses of copper or steel and tell me which should have more value. Those two metals alone have much more use and importance than Gold. But why is gold considered as being more valuable?
Is gold even presently much more important than Lithium? The value of gold is extrinsic

Afromentalist:
If you don't know in which domains Gold is useful except jewelry, and are too lazy to find out, you are not worth my time.

Your are just being sentimental. When you have facts come back. Copper, steel palladium are used in industrial purpose. Apart from the fact that it does not fade, which is why it is used for jewelley, what is gold used for?

emmanuelewumi:
Lower stock price will give you a better dividend yield and earning yield

A stock price at N20, made earning of N4 and paid dividend of N2.

This will give a a price earning ratio of 5, earning yield of 20%, dividend yield of 10%.

If the price should fall to N10, the PE ratio will be 2.5, earning yield of 40% and dividend yield of 20%.


If you see your stock holdings as percentage holdings in a business you will understand, but if you see it as a lottery or gambling ticket you might not understand.


If the business fundamentals and other ratios are good, lower stock prices are good for value investors

Ok. I get your point.

Afromentalist:
How can you say Gold has no intrinsic value?

It is a precious metal, very useful in many different industries. Gold has value, beyond the subjective worth ascribed to it. Same can't be said of Crypto.

Useful in what exactly except jewellry? Is Gold used in more useful than Copper?

emmanuelewumi:
A lower stock price, will increase my dividend yield and earning yield.

As earlier said traders focus on the stock price, investors focus on the business and its values.

A house is worth N40 million, the rental income from the property is N3 million and has been flat for the past 3 years. If the price of the property falls to N30 million because of this, will you sell or buy more if you have the cash flow?

Always buy the dip of a cash cow. However, a house is diffrent asset class to shares. Going by your post, you are suggesting to buy more shares. Even your dividend yield would reduce in the long run cos the share price of the company would be impacted by the stagnant financial performance

Ha bu otu leeee

emmanuelewumi:
Earning growth is for a growth stock. At that point it is no longer a growth stock. Growth stocks have a double digits or more PE ratio. Tesla used to have a PE of over 1000. Not sure of the current figures


A company does not have to grow its earnings it will definitely get to a climax, you will consider other variables like dividend yield, earning yield, price earning ratio.

A stock with a flat earning growth for the past 3 years, PE of 5, earning yield of 20% and dividend yield of 15% is not bad. You can reinvest to compound your returns

Ok. But dont you think that flat earnings woukd definetely tell on the stock price at a point in time cos investors may want to jump the boat.

skydiver01:
The intrinsic value of gold is or portends from the fact that all central banks in the world have acknowledged the value of cold as a store of value since time immemorial . So much so that many of them have a portion of their reserves in physical Gold. No central bank recognizes any cryptocurrency as a store of value. Sorry but I do not see that stance ever changing.

So the central banks decided that gold has intrinsic value, not that Gold has anything has any value to offer. You expect Central bank to recognize the very thing that threatens their existence? Nice try

emmanuelewumi:
Better to have a stagnant earning than a fall in the earnings, a quarter is not enough to tell the story but gives a guide. It is better if you use 2020 q1 against 2021 q1.


What is your definition of a growth stock. I think a growth stock increases it earnings at a rate far higher than inflation, by definition though.

Inflation is 10%, a business has been increasing it earnings or profit by 20% for the past 3 years.

Made N200 million in 2018, N240 million in 2019, N288 million in 2020 and N345.6 million in 2021 and there a probability of sustaining the earning growth.

Very true. But dont you think expecting a company to increase its earnings every year is unattainable? There has to be a point the company would hit market saturation. At that point, does it mean the company is no longer a good company?

emmanuelewumi:
Value investors in for cash flow and earnings growth, an investment can get 100% capital appreciation and it is still undervalued if the fundamentals are sound.

They sell an asset or Investment when it becomes over priced or starts sell far above its intrinsic value, they don't sell just because it has appreciated.

They make provision for a margin of safety before committing funds.

Devoting 10% to 20% of your funds to speculation is not bad, if you have the instinct for gambling

Between Q2 2019 and Q1 2021 Coca cola's earnings have decreased by 12.6%. Visa's earnings have slid from $4.78 in 2019 to $4.36 in 2021 (75%).

Likewise Pepsi and many other companies. So what is the earnings growth we are talking about compared to Apple, Amazon and Facebook.

Even Benjamin Graham who is regarded as the father of value investing made more money in a growth stock.

But the irony is even if you want to invest in growth or speculatuve assets you have to use fundamentals

emmanuelewumi:
Traders make money from the volatility, the sustainability of the money is another thing.

Investors make money by identifying value and have ownership of the value in an asset or Investment in order to benefit from the earnings growth and cash flow from the asset or Investment.


Traders are concerned about price, investors are concerned about value.

Price is what you pay, value is what you get

Is value investing not anchored on finding undervalued stocks and profiting from appreciation? Is the value investor not hoping to gain from the market's mispricing? Just because it is value does not mean you would invest your money. You have to look at how the market perceives the stock. Would you invest in Intel?

emmanuelewumi:
At the end of the euphoria and frenzy, when normalcy returns Investments and assets must obey fundamentals and have the right valuations

So can you say Apple, Visa or Adobe are obeying fundamentals right now? If every company obeys fundamentals how would investors and traders profit from undervaluatuons and mispricings?

skydiver01:
The inflation broadbased market price action is unrelated to the bitcoin or cryptocurrencies market price movements. Cash generating equities (companies) have intrinsic values. Cryptocurrencies do not. I maintain within 5 years they will not exist. Digital currencies may very well exist but cryptocurrencies will not exist LEGALLY.

When inflation rises, first assets that get hit a risky and speculative assets. Cryptos and tech stocks fit that bill. When has crypto ever been 'legal'? If you are talking about intrinsic value, please what is the intrinsic value of gold?

emmanuelewumi:
A lot of stocks are driven by speculation and no fundamentals to support them.

If you are a value investor, you will avoid such stocks no matter the growths story.

Tesla used to have a PE of 1000, I can only buy it if the average earned growth for the past 3 years is over 1000%

Very true. But those speculative stocks have underperformed so far this year. This decline in the market for the last 2 weeks has been broad based due to inflation fears

skydiver01:
Interesting character (Musk). More interesting is his effect on these crypto prices

Bitcoin hits three-month low as Musk drives investors to exit
https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/bitcoin-hits-three-month-low-musk-drives-investors-exit-2021-05-17/

Stocks paced toward a third straight day of declines, with technology shares leading the way lower as concerns over inflation persisted

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/stock-market-news-live-updates-may-19-2021-221605666.html

hustla:
It can't get better in Nigeria

GBP is 680 as of this morning

There was a country

Wallade:
Yorubas have refused to be coned by you guys and Kanu into your Biafra agitation.

Sunday Igboho can dine with you, share your fraudulent funds with you and die with you guys. We don't care.

You are free to be Biafra country for all Yorubas care but stop dragging us into your agitation. I thought you can achieve your plans yourself; leave us out of it.

You lying and hateful people. Always generating propaganda all over the place.

Dont allow the hate in your heart change the taste of food in your mouth.

Turantula:
You want CAN to support terrorists?

A country that blows up schools and hospitals. Sends missles to UN refugee centres, and grabs the land of the locals. Is Israel not a terroist state?

BannarBannar:
What I believed in is that in this world anything can be possible and that is while am seeking expert opinions right here and I believe we can arrive at a right answer. Thanks

First try to drink ogogoro without squeezing your face, then you would know if anything is possible.

hustla:
Any idea when it will be devalued again?

We should be praying for the naira to get stronger not devalued

GodisFirst:
“Even Nigeria under ex-President Goodluck Jonathan played an ignoble role in the Palestinian question. The request to officially recognize Palestine as a state within the 1967 boarders with full UN member benefits and state status throughout the international community was presented by Jordan on 30th December 2014. While justice-seeking countries like Argentina, Chad, Chile, Jordan, China, France and Russia voted ‘Yes’ to a Palestinian State, Nigeria dashed the hope of Palestine by abstaining.

“Just nine votes were mandatory for Palestine to secure the status it needed and eight had been obtained. Only one more vote was needed but Nigeria reneged on its well-known anti-apartheid stance. It was a shocking, conservative and reactionary shift from anti-apartheid champion status for which the country was known to a pro-zionist entity. It was the coup de grace. It was the day Nigeria shamefully turned its back on its principles of justice, liberty and humanity, no thanks to ex-President Jonathan’s love for anything that may hurt Muslims and favour Christians. Jonathan cannot wash his hands off that diplomatic misadventure. He allowed his religious sentiment to get the better of him.

See the bolded

How does this equate to the current bombarding of Palestinians? If Jonathan had voted for a Palestine state would it have stopped the acrimony between Israel and Palestine? The headline is just click bait

davidodiba:
With the same mindset as muric, you can't see it. Sorry

I'm sure you did not read the write-up.

where did MURIC blame Jonathan in this write-up for goodness sake?

skydiver01:
Interesting character (Musk). More interesting is his effect on these crypto prices

Bitcoin hits three-month low as Musk drives investors to exit
https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/bitcoin-hits-three-month-low-musk-drives-investors-exit-2021-05-17/

Weak hands have to be shaken out. Follow action not words. Tesla has not sold its bitcoin