₦airaland Forum

@ TayoD and Mlks_baby

Before you commence an episode of exultant jubilation, let me show you some of your errors. @ mlks_baby, you don't know Islam like you think you do, and this is rather unfortunate.

Second, Muslims many times compare the prophets in Islam. How many times have they said that Muhammad is "the greatest prophet", "the last prophet", "the Noble Prophet" or "THE prophet of Allah". Are they saying that the other prophets are not of Allah? In reciting the Kalima (confession that makes someone a Muslim), the confession/profession that Muhammad is Allah's prophet bears this out: "Ashadu an La Ilaha illa-llah, wa Ashhadu anna Muhammadan Rasulullah" which, roughly translated into English, reads: "I bear witness that nothing deserves to be worshipped except Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah." This confession is commonly known as the "Two Testimonies", the second part of which is found in the Qur'an in Sura 48:29; and an even stronger one in Sura 33:40 where Muhammad is called "the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets." If that was not comparing by placing Muhammad above the other prophets, what do you call that?

Since it is wrong to compare Prophets in Islam, then the Qur'an has not helped us in that respect; unless you would like to admit that you were in the wrong to assume that.

I'd like to point out your error here. The Quran NEVER compares any of the Prohets with each other. By stating that Muhammed (SAW) was the seal of Prohets, it did not state that He (SAW) was greater than any other Prophet. It only stated that He is the seal meaning, the end/last/final etc Prophet. Except you can bring a verse that explicitly states so, please drop that belief. You may be right that some Muslims compare the Prophets- nevertheless it does not make it right to do so. I try to correct them about this whenever it is done where I am present.

The issue of comparing Prophets is a thing done by Islam and not christianity. There is actually no basis of comparison between Jesus and others, just like there is no basis of comparison between the creature and its creator.

TayoD, I hope this shows you that you are so wrong about that stement, except if mlks_baby made a mistake when she said this

Even the Lord Jesus Christ is compared to other prophets in the Bible; and He asked His disciples about who He was, and the answers from His disciples showed how people compared Him to other prophets in Matt. 16:13-17. Even so, He went so far as to establish the fact that He was greater than all the Prophets; for He was clearly referring to Himself when He said "a greater than Solomon is here" (Matt. 12:42). You'll find He also compared John the baptist to the other prophets - "Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist" (Luke 7:28). Lastly, a casual reading of Hebrews in the Bible shows how Jesus was contrasted with Moses and the angels - for no other reason than to show why Jesus is the mediator of the everlasting New Covenant (meaning that no other prophet comes after Him as far as salvation is concerned).

Now who is doing the comparison?


Still on the queries you raised mlks_baby, the Quran refers to Jesus (ASW) as the Word, yes, and all it means is that Jesus (ASW) was spoken by God to be and He was. In many instances in the narration of the creation in the Quran, God says all I have to say is Be, and it is. And in like manner did He describe the creation of Jesus (ASW). I hope that answers your question.

And as for the Shahadah which means witness, Muslims are required to say it to be in the state of belief. The reason they are required to testify to the messengership of Muhammed (SAW) is simple, at that time, He was denied as the Prophet and called a magician by the Quraish, so a Muslim was required to testify to his messengership as a sort of affirmation in believing in Islam completely.

GL is definitely right. It is wrong to compare the Prophets. Whether Jesus (ASW) was called the last Adam or the second Adam means nothing, so long as he is related to Adam in the bible, especially as He and Adam (ASW) share some things in common as enumerated by GL.

That Jesus (ASW) did not sin is a belief held in the bible-not the Quran. You said Muhammed(SAW) sinned, I am not saying He did not, neither am I confirming your position, but please provide your references.

On the issue of ASW, your confusion abput Islam surely becomes more apparent mlks_baby. Even though you got the meaning right, the application is definitely wrong. ASW mean On him be peace, and it refers to the person after which the invocation is made, not Muhammed (SAW). And this does not in anyway translate to a title. Praying for the Prophates of God is not a title like you would say "his eminence". And you think they are unmerited? Hmmm, I believe they deserve it if only for the work they did inspite of all the persecution they faced. This is yet another attestation to the fact that Islam does not discriminate against or compare any Prophet of God.

And about titles, infact the Prophet (SAW) asked his followers to desist from appending any to him so that they do not elevate him beyond what he was-a human. So mlks_baby, please do more research. Aslo, it's good to know you are studying the hadiths. I hope you are not just reading them, but studying the Ulsoolul Hadiths which is the science of the hadiths, otherwise you'll get very confused and jumble up facts.

There is something we b oth definitely agree on, and that is the query system of learning thigs. That way, we come up stronger based on new knowledge acquired. I have learnt a lot more about Islam and christianity since I joined this community, and I am not averse to people questioning what I believe in, but when they make statements that I know to be false and I show them the explanations and they choose to hold on to their beliefs however wrong, I just say to them, practice what you believe. If I did not respond to your query before saying this, it might have been different. I gave an analogy which you preferred to ignore with a caveat that you were going to get back on it. I am still expecting that response.

@ mlks_baby

Adam(ASW) neither had a father nor mother, so if you view Jesus as a Miracle, Adam(ASW) I suppose was an even greater miracle. However, it is beyond me to compare the Prophets of God. Let God handle that himself. It is wrong to compare Prophet's in Islam, they all have their special purposes. Jesus (ASW) is special, there's no denying that, but I wouldn't want to engage in self gratifying praise at how superior my own Prophet is over theirs. They are all ours too in Islam.

Please enjoy your faith, and i will enjoy mine too.

@ Mlks_baby, Sokislam

That's your own view. So long as when I pray, my intentions are to the ONE true God that exists, it matters not what you think. Islam is founded on montheism, and all muslims supplicate to that God. If it takes muslims by surprise that Islam is polytheist, then in it is really monotheist, because it means the polytheism is not obvious or it doesn't exist. I'd rather be a "polytheistic''  montheist worshipper, than a 'monotheist' polyhteist one.

@ GL

Most of what you said last were absolute truths that I cannot but agree. You have shown a rare impartiality in those posts. I applaud you for that. But you know, whenever Muslims react in an unseemly manner to these things and a few Muslims who have another perspective to things rise up to say this is wrong, they become the punching bags of both sides, muslim and otherwise. I have been in this position so many times. The lack of support for these people by non-muslims and their eventual categorization as violent always makes the extremists win. I just want you to imagine when the Roman empire was carrying out it's campaign of plunders and killings, there may have been some few voices that protested against this, but they were hardly heard. Now this did not mean christianity was all about violence. That is my dilenma. Islam and christianity are different-there's no doubt about that.

About the cartoon riots and the Da Vinci protests, it is appropriate for people to express thier grievances, and I certainly would not want violence to be a part of those protests, but it so happens that as a result of stereotypes, the likely hood of violence when muslims protest is almost approaching a probability of 1. However, cursing or threatening is equally condemnable and could easily degenerate to violence. I am definitely not alluding to the fact that the bible supports it, no, but rather I cited that example to show that any people can overstep the boundaries,.

@ mlks_baby

If you say messiah means christ, then I concede to you that you could call the Masih Dajjal the anti-christ. I just explained that it seems more natural for me to use the English variant of the word, since I can translate it to Messiah. It's wrong for you to say Messiah is not English. If it has been assimilated into English, then it is English. Go check your dictionary. It may have had Hebrew origins, but it's English. Please avoid these technicalities, as it distracts from the main premise. Thanks.

@ Nferyn

Here are the examples I gave previously

In Islam, the prophesies of Muhammed (SAW) were accurately made and came to pass. So are still yet to pass, but they will. Example, when the persians and the romans were in battle of attrition, Muhammed (SAW) said the Romans were going to defeat the persians in seven years and it came to pass. At that time, it would have been inconceivable that it would happen. And he urged the Muslims to celebrate with the Romans because then some of them still believed in monotheism. Another was whe he predicted the fall of constantinople, and it's eventual liberation by Muslim forces. Constantinople is now Istanbul. What could be more accurate? There are so many predictions that actually came to pass. The list is endless.

For more, the Prophet of Islam also predicted that the ratio of girls to boys will approach 50 to 1 as time progressed. Now to show the accuracy of that prediction, at that time in Arabia, men far outnumbered the women, so it wasn't a trend then.
Now Latest UN world population statistics show that it is 11 women to 1 man. We will soon get to the mark.

@ TayoD

I will infact choose to ignore your statements on christ and messiah. I think probably when you get ome sleep and your head is clearer, you would think clearly about it. As for going round in circles, I am sure you are the one. You told me to give you proof the bible was altered, and I said read anything about the bible in the Quran-that's the correct version of the bible. It's needless to provide the bible that circulated in Mohammed's(SAW) time, when he has been shown the true facts.

@mlks_baby

Why are you all doing translations upon translations to arrive at Christ? Since Messiah also exists in English language, I think it will just be appropriate. Jesus (ASW) couldn't have called himself the Messiah in the Quran because all instances of Jesus (ASW) in the Quran are reported as third person singular. So, it was God infact that called him Messiah son of Mary. He could just have been called the anoited one in the Quran, as TayoD suggested, but he wasn't. As for the commentary of Yusuf Ali and so on, I have told you that whenever the commentators write something in parenthesis, they refer to the way they see it, and Yusuf Ali was only trying to explain the differences by calling nim christ Jesus, so that English readers will know what he meant, Now, I have studied Arabic to a level, and I know that Masih in Arabic means Messiah. I don't know what christ means, and since Messiah can be obtained in English it needless to call Jesus (ASW) christ when Messiah the more appropriate word exists. And till this day, Muslims believe him to be messiah because we expect him (Jesus 9ASW) ) to come back and lead the Muslims in a war against the anti-christ and his followers. I hope you will all be on the right side of the divide.

Now TayoD, you claim that anybody that is violent as a christian is not connected to the'tree called Jesus'. Well, I make bold to affirm that a Muslim who is violent especially when he is not provoked, is not exactly following the dictates of his religion. You can quote the Quran all you want and interprete it all you want, for me, since I became a muslim, I have read and interpreted it as the most realistic book to guide human beings on earth. If the Quran says we should fight back when we are persecuted, I think it supports the first law of nature-self-preservation. It is not pacifist as the bible is. Little wonder very few people actually practice what the bible says, because I'd hace expected all those people who engaged in a heated diatribe with Ajisafe, to have just turned the other side of the face instead of abusing him back. So may be going by your extrapolations TayoD, they may not be connected to the tree afterall.

The baseline is this, when Muslims are violent (whether in self-defence or aggression), others hang them and celebrate the fact that their holy books prescribed the use of force- when necessary to defend themselves- and classify Islam as an utterly violent religion. But when christians are violent, they are not connected to the tree called Jesus (ASW). They only do their own wish. This is employing double standards and may actually translate into hypocrisy by those who are making those Judgements. I have yet to see a christian that will incline to peace when he is about to be annihilated. I am sure the human in these christians will fight back even when it is against the teachings of his faith. And I understand the reaction, and I will not judge whoever it is. And I also demand the same any time there is violence perpetrated by Muslims, so long as there is a group who say that the Islamic Holy books have been mis-applied, I expect others to absolve Islam of their wrongdoings and instead focus on the immediate and remote causes of their actions, and consequently seek to implement corrective measures. But seeking to denigrate an entire religious faith based on what was revealed in their books, and subjectively interpreted by adherents is hypocrisy and denial of the truth.

yOU ALL ARE SCARING THE CREEPS OUT OF ME MEN.

Is there sanity remaning on this thread? I don't even get the point 1 person is trying to make.

We are going round in circles on that matter, so may be we should go to another. I guess you should prevail on your brothers in Kenya not to carry out their threats otherwise there will be one more similarity between  slam and Christianity-violent reactions to criticism, and it will afterall make non-sense of a lot of arguments put forward about peaceful christianity on this site.

@ GL going by what you said earlier-

It's funny when people say christianity doesn't allow people think. It's only in countries where christianity is the major religion (whether d people still practice or not) that you see a diversity of opinions. Can homosexuals go to any Islamic country and ask for rights? Can people insult God in Islamic countries? See what happens whenever someone insults Muhammad and compare to the many times Jesus gets insulted, particularly in the US - a country built on christian principles. Look at all the people behind civilization, those who invented one thing or the other, and especially those who proposed new ideas that changed the world e.g. Darwin. You see that majority of them were from christian backgrounds, some even ministers' children. Christianity is a religion of liberty, and that is why you see a lot of things in christian groups that you may never see in muslim groups. For example, even though fornication must be occuring in the muslim areas of this country, it is hidden. This is unlike in the south of Nigeria, or in the West, were it isn't seen as a big deal and most people wont even use that word.

What do you have to say in the light of new eveidence? Surely these people must have backing from the book the follow? wHAT DO YOU THINK?



[b]Kenya: Christians Condemn 'Da Vinci Code' Movie


 

   
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The East African Standard (Nairobi)

May 25, 2006
Posted to the web May 25, 2006

Steve Mkawale And Lawrence Aluru
Nairobi

Kenyan Christians took to the streets on Wednesday to protest against The Da Vinci Code movie, which premiered at the weekend.

Christian faithful march along the Nakuru/Nairobi highway on Wednesday to protest against The Da Vinci Code movie. Pic by Lucas Thuo

Waving twigs and placards, the protestors blocked the Nakuru/Nairobi highway and asked the Government to ban the movie. The faithful termed the film, starring Audrey Tautou and Tom Hanks, blasphemous.

More than 100 evangelical pastors, who joined the slogan-chanting faithful, blamed the Film Censorship Board for failing to notice that the movie was anti-Christian before it was screened in the country.

Bishop Stephen Kinuthia of New Life Gospel Church and Pastor Mike Brawan of Metro Church Kenya said the movie blasphemed Jesus Christ and was an affront to the tenets of the Christian faith.

"We want President Mwai Kibaki to issue a directive to ban the movie because he is a Christian and would not be happy to be associated with it," said Brawan.

The protestors warned theatre owners in Nakuru town against screening the movie.

"We will burn any cinema hall that screens the controversial film," said Kinuthia.

The protestors disrupted traffic for about an hour as they peacefully matched from Stem Hotel, where they were holding a breakfast meeting.

Elsewhere, Bishop Bonifes Adoyo of Christ is the Answer Ministries denounced Da Vinci as fictitious. Speaking in Nairobi, Dr Adoyo said the story was not founded on careful research but on a documented fraud passed as truth.

"In our view, Da Vinci Code is driven by greed for easy money and by a definite hatred for the Christian faith. It adds no value at all to anybody's life and it must be treated with the contempt it deserves," he said.

He urged the Government to honour the wishes of Christian community and stop the film from propagating falsehoods. Also present at the Press conference were Pastor David Oginde of Nairobi Pentecostal Church Valley Road and Rev John Nguuh of the Woodley Church.

Relevant Links

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An affiliation of mainstream churches have also called on the Government to ban the movie. In a statement on Tuesday, church leaders pronounced a "curse" on the makers of the movie.

"May the producers equally perish with their silver!" Nairobi Pentecostal Church's David Oginde was quoted saying in the Press.

The movie claims that Jesus married Mary Magdalene, with whom he had a child.[/b][quote][/quote]Already, the cursing is 'unchristianly' like you'd want me and others to believe, but these are not catholics-They are actually protestants. So, reach out to them before they batter the precious image of christianity you have been trying to protect.


@mlks_baby
It may interest you to know that the Quran never referred to Jesus(ASW) as christ. That's a name not even Jesus (ASW) called himself in the bible not to talk of the Quran. But it does refer to him as Messiah which is what Muslims believe him to be.

@ TayoD

He was not consulting the angels, He was having a conversation, I dare say you know not the meaning of consultation.If I tell you I am going to do something, and no matter waht you say I am still going to do it any way, do you call that consultation?

Jesus (ASW) is alive now, He'll come back to kill the anti-christ, then the trumpet would be sounded, everything living will die, then everything (including Jesus (ASW)) will be resurrected. Now do you understand the meaning of that statement? So ain't no contradictions from the Qurannic point of view.

Now, you and mlks_baby keep saying that. Isn't it clear to you that the bible that existed during the time of the prophet Muhammed (SAW) couldn't have had any variance with what is in the Quran? So instead of asking me what that Bible contained, read what the Quran says about biblical stories and there's your answer.

Peace

Did you read the analogy that I gave you? God does something, he uses the angels to do it. He can refer to himself as I did it, or say we did it. It doesn't matter either way, the person who did it is God. We answered his parayers simply means He asked the angels to restore Job.

Let me take you into the account of creation as described by the Quran. God told the angels, I will create a vicegerent on earth. Then the angels said, why would you create what will spread mishief on earth. Then God said I know that which you do not know. He then created Adam (ASW), put him in Eden. But Adam sinned and was taken to earth and God's mission was established. Now, if God said, and We created Adam, this doesn't imply many gods, but He just meant, He created Adam with the knowledge and support of the angels.

@ Reverend
as Usual, wicked humour.

@ Syrup

mamaput has some points though. Islam, and Christianity claim to be monotheistic religions. And at one point or the other in their histories, they both over-stepped the bounds and did things that were not in their doctrines including unprovoked wars in a bid to expand their frontiers. Anywhere in the Quran where God asked the Muslims to fight unbelievers, it was in response to an attack or persecution.

I personally think it is unfair for people to make a distiction between Roman Catholicism and Christianity. The latter was derived as a modified form of the former, but it doesn't mean protestantism has not had it's own mistakes. I know of some, but will only discuss them if they are relevant.


@mlks_baby

You would see that those points you said where repetitions are actually different. The first says what is generally believed, and the 2nd says what the Quran states. And I guess that answers your questions about the Temple episode. It was not Qurannic, but the Qurannic version is given below it.

Now in Islam, the interpretations of the Quran are what they are-interpretations of the meanings. That is why different scholars use different proofs to back up their claims. And those that are comments of the scholars are put in a parentheses like you saw earlier. This is the exact reason the Quran has remained in Arabic so it's meanings remain unchanged, and this has remained so for 1400 years. Muslims are however encouraged to learn Arabic, then consider these proofs themselves and interprete those things that seem vague based on these proofs.

You get it wrong again. The Quran actually supports evidence from the Torah, but it disregards the old testament as authentic because we believe it was altered like the bible by the Jews. So, the Quran actually accepts Jesus as the messiah. The Arabic word for Messiah is Masih bn Maryam-which translates to Messiah son of Mary. Anywhere there's such a statement there cannot be a disagreement about interpreting it as Messiah. And U r also wrong to say that the Old testament foretold his death and resurrection. The Jews believe no such thing. Some of them believe Ezra is the son of God, but they don't even believe in resurrection. They believe Jesus is yet to come.

You see concerning the 'raids, pluders, and killings' as you put it, the Quran initially asked Muslims to fight the pagans. Now, when the pagans were no longer a threat, and the Romans were expanding their frontiers using christianity, they effectively became pagans. And they were fighting the Muslims, and remember in the quote I gave you about Muhammed's alliance with some Christians, He said if some chrisitans came to fight you, those under you (muslims) must be treated well. Those Chrisitans with which he had an alliance did not believe in trinity. Now this is what Muslim scholars hold on to when they say the christians who believe in trinity should be regarded as pagans. I however do not subscribe to that school of thought. And if you want to now, christians and Jews are treated in a different manner as christians. Muslims are allowed to marry them, eat their food, etc. I just want you to be clear on that. I brought out this quote so that you will be very clear about Islamic relations with peace loving people.

Muhammed's(SAW) relationship with christians of the yesteryears
It was about this time that the Prophet granted to the monks of the Monastery of St. Catherine,
near Mount Sinai, his liberal charter by which they secured for the Christians noble and generous
privileges and immunities. He undertook himself, and enjoined his followers, to protect the
Christians, to defend their churches and the residences of their priests and to guard them from all
injuries. They were not to be unfairly taxed; no bishop was to be driven out of his diocese; no
Christian was to be forced to reject his religion; no monk was to be expelled from his monastery;
no pilgrim was to be stopped from his pilgrimage; nor were the Christian churches to be pulled
down for the sake of building mosques or houses for the Muslims. Christian women married to
Muslims were to enjoy their own religion and not to be subjected to compulsion or annoyance of
any kind. If the Christians should stand in need of assistance for the repair of their churches or
monasteries, or any other matter pertaining to their religion, the Muslims were to assist them. This
was not to be considered as supporting their religion, but as simply rendering them assistance in
special circumstances. Should the Muslims be engaged in hostilities with outside Christians, no
Christian resident among the Muslims should be treated with contempt on account of his creed.
The Prophet declared that any Muslim violating any clause of the charter should be regarded as a
transgressor of Allah's commandments, a violator of His testament and neglectful of His faith.

When Allah refers to himself as we, he is talking of all the hosts of the heavens. When he wanted to breathe His Spirit into Mary (RAA) He used Angel Gabriel (ASW). So when He said I, He was right, also when He said We, He was also right. If you tell your servant to do something, and you are the boss somewhere, you could say I did it, or you could say we did it. Depends on you really. So there's no contradiction.

The Quran actually alludes to trinity as God the father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, not Mary (RAA) as you stated. Mary(RAA) is well documented to be the mother of Jesus (ASW), she has a whole chapter dedicated to her. And we believe in the Holy Spirit, just that we believe it's part of God, more like an attribute of God, not a separate entity. Like you would say a human possesses his fingers. His fingers are not independent. Where we differ is in the sonship of God. That Jesus (ASW) was on earth, while his father was in Heaven is unacceptable in Islamic doctrines.

mamaput.

Muslims, Christians and Jews are all expecting Jesus (ASW). That's another similarity between Islam and christianity.

@mlks_baby

Even though you kinda muddled things up, I will clarify them now, though I think it may have been unintentional.

Firstly, I will concede to you that I was wrong when I said the hadiths say Judas was substituted for Jesus (ASW). This can be not be farther from the truth. In actual fact, it was some christian sect in 150 AD who held this belief,. Prominent among these sects were the Basilidans. Also, the Gospel of Barnabas supports this claim. The Islamic point of view seeks not to even lend credence to the fact that he was ever crucified, and thus does not try to harmonise the biblical story with the Islamic views. What the Quran states instead was that an illusion was created in the mind of his supposed killers that he was killed, and even the Jews-his enemies, started to believe that story afterwards.

Since you said we could quote as we pleased, I'll just give you this reference.

Q4:157 And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah Jesus, son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah-but they killed him not, nor crucified him, biut the resemblance of Jesus was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They follow nothing but conjecture. For surely, they killed him not.

4:158 But Allah raised him (Jesus) up (with body and soul) unto Himself (and He Jesus(ASW) is in the Heavens). And Allah is Ever All-Powerful, All wise.

Now these are two of the verses that states what happened to Jesus in the Islamic point of view. However my allusion to the person killed being Judas was totally my error. I regret it.

If you want to know more about how Islam see Jesus, the following sums it up. Even Miracles not described in the Bible are described in the Quran and Hadiths-


Mary
Receives
News of Jesus
While Mary was praying in the temple, an angel in the form of a man appeared
before her. Filled with terror, she tried to flee, praying: "Verily! I seek refuge with
the Most Beneficent (Allah) from you, if you do fear Allah."

(The angel) said: "I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you
the gift of a righteous son."

She said: "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I
unchaste?"

He said: "So (it will be), your Lord said: That is easy for me (Allah): And (We
wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (Allah), and it is a
matter (already) decreed, (by Allah). Surah 19: 18-21

The Brith of
Jesus
The angel's visit caused Mary great anxiety, which increased as the months went
by. How could she face giving birth to a child without having a husband? Later,
she felt life kicking inside her. With a heavy heart, she left the temple and went
to Nazareth, the city in which she had been born where she settled in a simple
farm house to avoid the public.

But fear and anxiety did not leave her. She was from a noble and pious family.
Her father had not been an evil man nor was her mother an impure woman. How
could she prevent tongues from wagging about her honor?

After some months, she could not bear the mental strain any longer. Burdened
with a heavy womb, she left Nazareth, not knowing where to go to be away from
this depressing atmosphere.

She had not gone far, when she was overtaken by the pains of childbirth. She
sat down against a dry palm tree, and here she gave birth to a son. Looking at
her beautiful baby, she was hurt that she had brought him into the world without
a father. She exclaimed: "I wish I had died before this happened and had
vanished into nothingness!"

Suddenly, she heard a voice nearby: "Grieve not, your Lord has placed a rivulet
below, and shake the trunk of this tree, from which ripe dates will fall. So eat and
drink and regain the strength you have lost; and be of good cheer, for what you
see is the power of Allah, Who made the dry palm tree regain life, in order to
provide food for you." For a while she was comforted by Allah's miracle, for it was
a sure sign of her innocence and purity.

Mary Returns
to the City
with Jesus
She decided to return to the city. However, her fears also returned. What was
she going to tell the people? As if sharing his mother's worry, the baby began to
speak: "If you meet any person say: 'I have vowed to fast for The Beneficent and
may not speak to any human today."' With this miracle, Mary felt at ease.

As she had expected, her arrival in the city with a newborn baby in her arms
aroused the curiosity of the people. They scolded her: 'This is a terrible sin that
you have committed." She put her finger to her lips and pointed to the child. They
asked: "How can we speak to a newborn baby?" To their total amazement, the
child began to speak clearly: "I am Allah's servant. Allah has given me the Book,
and has made me a prophet, and has blessed me wherever I may be, and has
enjoined on me prayers and alms-giving as long as I live. Allah has made me
dutiful towards she who has borne me. He has not made me arrogant nor
unblessed. Peace unto me the day I was born, the day I die and the day I shall
be raised alive."

Most of the people realized that the baby was unique, for if Allah wills something,
He merely says "Be" and it happens. Of course, there were some who regarded
the baby's speech as a strange trick, but at least Mary could now stay in
Nazareth without being harassed.

Mary
Receives
News of Jesus
- Qur'anic
Allah the Exalted revealed: And mention in the Book (the Qur'an, 0 Muhammad
the story of) Mary, when she withdrew in seclusion from her family to a place
facing east. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to
her Our Ruh (angel Gabriel), and he appeared before her in the form of a man in
all respects.

She said: "Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent (Allah) from you, if you
do fear Allah."

(The angel) said: "I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you
the gift of a righteous son."

She said: "How can Ihave a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I
unchaste?" He said: 'So (it will be), your Lord said: That is easy for Me (Allah):
and (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (Allah),
and it is a matter (already) decreed. (by Allah)." Surah 19: 16-21

The Birth of
Jesus -
Qur'anic
So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far place (ie., Bethlehem
valley, about four to six miles from Jerusalem). And the pains of childbirth drove
her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said: "Would that I had died before this, and
had been forgotten and out of sight!"

Then (the babe "Jesus" or Gabriel) cried unto her from below her, saying: "Grieve
not! Your Lord has provided a water stream under you; and shake the trunk of
palm tree to wards you, it will let fall fresh ripe dates upon you. So eat and drink
and be glad, and if you see any human being, say. 'Verily! I have vowed a fast
unto the Most Beneficent (Allah) so I shall not speak to any human being this
day. Surah 22-26

Mary and
Jesus Return
to the City -
Qur'anic
Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They said: "0 Mary!
Indeed you have brought a thing Fariyya (an unheard mighty thing). 0 sister (i.e.
the like) of Aaron (not the brother of Moses, but he was another pious man at
the time of Mary)! Your father was not a man who used to commit adultery, nor
was your mother an unchaste woman."

Then she pointed to him. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the
cradle?"

He (Jesus) said: "Verily! I am a slave of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and
made me a Prophet; And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and has
enjoined on me prayer, and Zakat, as long as Ilive, and dutiful to my mother, and
made me not arrogant, unblest. And Salam (peace) be upon me the day I was
born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!" Surah 19: 27-33

Allah's
Message
About Jesus -
Qur'anic
Such is Jesus, son of Mary. (It is) a statement of truth, about which they doubt
(or dispute). It befits not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son (this
refers to the slander of Christians against Allah, by saying that Jesus is the son
of Allah). Glorified (and Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him).
When He decrees a thing. He only says to it, "Be!" - and it is.

(Jesus said): 'And verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him (Alone).
That is the Straight Path. (Allah Religion of Islamic Monotheism which He did
ordain for all of His Prophets)."

Then the sects differed (i.e., the Christians about Jesus), so woe unto the
disbelievers (those who gave false witness saying that Jesus is the son of Allah)
from the meeting of a great Day (i.e., the Day of Resurrection, when they will be
thrown in the blazing Fire).

How clearly will they (polytheists and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) see
and hear, the Day when they will appear before Us! But the Zalimun (polytheists
and wrongdoers) today are in plain error. And warn them (0 Muhammad) of the
Day of grief and regrets, when the case has been decided, while (now) they are
in a state of carelessness, and they believe not. Surah 19: 34-39

Some Stories
About Mary's
Pregnancy
It was said that Joseph the Carpenter was greatly surprised when he knew the
story, so he asked Mary: "Can a tree come to grow without a seed?" She said:
"Yes, the one which Allah created for the first time." He asked her again: "Is it
possible to bear a child without a male partner?" She said: "Yes, Allah created
Adam without male or female!"

It was also said that, while pregnant, Mary went one day to her aunt, who
reported that she felt as if she was pregnant. Mary in turn said that she, too,
was feeling as if she was pregnant. Then her aunt said: "I can see what is in my
womb prostrating to what is in your womb."

Jesus Upsets
the Jews
The Jewish priests felt this child Jesus was dangerous, for they felt that the
people would turn their worship to Allah the Almighty alone, displacing the
existing Jewish tenets. Consequently, they would lose their authority over the
people. Therefore, they kept the miracle of Jesus's speech in infancy as a secret
and accused Mary of a great misdeed.

Jesus's Ability
to Debate
As Jesus grew, the signs of prophethood began to increase. He could tell his
friends what kind of supper waited for them at home and what they had hidden
and where. When he was twelve years old, he accompanied his mother to
Jerusalem. There he wandered into the temple and joined a crowd listening to
the lectures of the Rabbis (Jewish priests). The audience were all adults, but he
was not afraid to sit with them. After listening intently, he asked questions and
expressed his opinion. The learned rabbis were disturbed by the boy's boldness
and puzzled by the questions he asked, for they were unable to answer him.
They tried to silence him, but he ignored their attempts and continued to express
his views. Jesus became so involved in this exchange that he forgot he was
expected back home.

In the meantime, his mother went home, thinking that he might have gone back
with relatives or friends. When she arrived, she discovered that he was not
there, so she returned to the city to look for him. At last she found him in the
temple, sitting among the learned, conversing with them. He appeared to be
quite at ease, as if he had been doing this all his life. Mary got angry with him for
causing her worry. He tried to assure her that all the arguing and debating with
the learned had made him forget the time.

Jesus Does
Not Observe
Sabbath
Jesus grew up to manhood. It was Sabbath, a day of complete rest: no fire could
be lit or extinguished, nor could females plait their hair. Moses had commanded
that Saturday be dedicated to the worship of Allah. However, the wisdom behind
the Sabbath and its spirit had gone, and only the letter remained in the Jews,
hearts. Also, they thought that the Sabbath was kept in heaven, and that the
People of Israel had been chosen by Allah only to observe the Sabbath.

They made a hundred things unlawful on Saturday even self-defense or calling a
doctor to save a patient who was in bad condition. This is how their life was
branded by such hypocrisy. Although the Pharisees were guardians of the law,
they were ready to sell it when their interests were involved so as to obtain
personal gains. There was, for example, a rule which prohibited a journey of
more than one thousand yards on the Sabbath day. What do we expect of the
Pharisees in this case? The day before, they transferred their food and drink from
their homes two thousand yards away and erected a temporary house so that
from there they could travel a further thousand yards on the Sabbath day.

Jesus was on his way to the temple. Although it was the Sabbath, he reached
out his hand to pick two pieces of fruit to feed a hungry child. This was
considered to be a violation of the Sabbath law. He made a fire for the old
women to keep themselves warm from the freezing air. Another violation. He
went to the temple and looked around. There were twenty thousand Jewish
priests registered there who earned their living from the temple. The rooms of
the temple were full of them.

Jesus
Receives His
Prophethood
Jesus observed that the visitors were much fewer than the priests. Yet the
temple was full of sheep and doves which were sold to the people to be offered
as sacrifices. Every step in the temple cost the visitor money. They worshipped
nothing but money. In the temple the Pharisees and Sadducees acted as if it
were a market place, and these two groups always disagreed on everything.
Jesus followed the scene with his eyes and observed that the poor people who
could not afford the price of the sheep or dove were swept away like flies by the
Pharisees and Saducees. Jesus was astonished. Why did the priests burn a lot of
offerings inside the temple, while thousands of poor people were hungry outside
it?

On this blessed night, the two noble prophets John and Zechariah died, killed by
the ruling authority. On the same night, the revelation descended upon Jesus .
Allah the Exalted commanded him to begin his call to the children of Israel. To
Jesus, the life of ease was closed, and the page of worship and struggle was
opened.

Jesus's
Message
Like an opposing force, the message of Jesus came to denounce the practices of
the Pharisees and Saducees and to reinforce the Law of Moses. In the face of a
materialistic age of luxury and worship of gold, Jesus called his people to a nobler
life by word and deed. This exemplary life was the only way out of the
wretchedness and diseases of his age.

Jesus's call, from the beginning, was marked by its complete uprightness and
piety. It appealed to the soul, the inner being, and not to a closed system of
rules laid down by society.

Jesus continued inviting the people to Almighty Allah. His call was based on the
principle that there is no mediation between the Creator and His creatures.
However, Jesus was in conflict with the Jews' superficial interpretation of the
Torah. He said that he did not come to abrogate the Torah, but to complete it by
going to the spirit of its substance to arrive at its essence.

He made the Jews understand that the Ten Commandments have more value
than they imagined. For instance, the fifth commandment does not only prohibit
physical killing, but all forms of killing: physical, psychological, or spiritual. And the
sixth commandment does not prohibit adultery only in the sense of unlawful
physical contact between a man and a woman, but also prohibits all forms of
unlawful relations or acts that might lead to adultery. The eye commits adultery
when it looks at anything with passion.

Jesus
Denounces
Materialism
Jesus was therefore in confrontation with the materialistic people. He told them
to desist from hypocrisy, show and false praise. There was no need to hoard
wealth in this life. They should not preoccupy themselves with the goods of this
passing world; rather they must preoccupy themselves with the affairs of the
coming world because it would be everlasting.

Jesus told them that caring for this world is a sin, not fit for pious worshipers. The
disbelievers care for it because they do not know a better way. As for the
believers, they know that their sustenance is with Allah, so they trust in Him and
scorn this world.

Jesus continued to invite people to worship the Only Lord, Who is without
partner, just as he invited them to purify the heart and soul.

Jewish
Priests Try to
Embarrass
Jesus
His teaching annoyed the priests, for every word of Jesus was a threat to them
and their position, exposing their misdeeds.

The Roman occupiers had, at first, no intention of being involved in this religious
discord of the Jews because it was an internal affair, and they saw that this
dispute would distract the Jews from the question of the occupation.

However, the priests started to plot against Jesus. They wanted to embarrass
him and to prove that he had come to destroy the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Law
provides that an adulteress be stoned to death. They brought him a Jewish
adulteress and asked Jesus: "Does not the law stipulate the stoning of the
adulteress?" Jesus answered: "Yes." They said: "This woman is an adulteress."
Jesus looked at the woman and then at the priests. He knew that they were
more sinful than she. They agreed that she should be killed according to Mosaic
Law, and they understood that if he was going to apply Mosaic Law, he would be
destroying his own rules of forgiveness and mercy.

Jesus understood their plan. He smiled and assented: "Whoever among you is
sinless can stone her." His voice rose in the middle of the Temple, making a new
law on adultery, for the sinless to judge sin. There was none eligible; no mortal
can judge sin, only Allah the Most Merciful.

As Jesus left the temple, the woman followed him. She took out a bottle of
perfume from her garments, knelt before his feet and washed them with perfume
and tears, and then dried his feet with her hair. Jesus turned to the woman and
told her to stand up, adding: "0 Lord, forgive her sins." He let the priests
understand that those who call people to Almighty Allah are not executioners. His
call was based on mercy for the people, the aim of all divine calls.

Jesus's Brings
the Dead to
Life
Jesus continued to pray to Allah for mercy on his people and to teach his people
to have mercy on one another and to believe in Allah.

Jesus continued his mission, aided by divine miracles. Some Qur'anic
commentators said that Jesus brought four people back from the dead: a friend
of his named Al-Azam, an old woman's son, and a woman's only daughter. These
three had died during his lifetime. When the Jews saw this they said: "You only
resurrect those who have died recently; perhaps they only fainted." They asked
him to bring back to life Sam the Ibn Noah.

When he asked them to show him his grave, the people accompanied him there.
Jesus invoked Allah the Exalted to bring him back to life and behold, Sam the Ibn
Noah came out from the grave gray-haired. Jesus asked: "How did you get gray
hair, when there was no aging in your time?" He answered: "0, Spirit of Allah, I
thought that the Day of Resurrection had come; from the fear of that day my hair
turned gray."

The Miracles
of Jesus -
Qur'anic
Allah the Almighty said: (Remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of
Resurrection): 'O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My Favor to you and to your
mother when I supported you with Ruh-ul-Qudus (Gabriel) so that you spoke to
the people in the cradle and in maturity and when I taught you writing Al-Hikmah
(the power of understanding), the Torah and the Gospel; and when you made
out of the clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My Permission, and you
breathed into it, and it became a bird by My Permission, and you healed those
born blind, and the lepers by My Permission, and when you brought forth the
dead by My Permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from you
(when they resolved to kill you) since you came unto them with clear proofs, and
the disbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.

And when I (Allah) put in the hearts of the disciples (of Jesus) to believe in Me
and My Messenger, they said: "We believe. And bear witness that we are
Muslims. " Surah 5: 110-111

Jesus's
Abilities and
Disciples -
Qur'anic
Almighty Allah also revealed: And He (Allah) will teach him (Jesus) the Book and
Al-Hikmah (i.e. the Sunna, the faultless speech of the Prophets, wisdom, etc.),
(and) the Torah and the Gospel.

And will make him (Jesus) a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): "I have
come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, as it
were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah
Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to
life by Allah's leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your
houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe. And I have come
confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful to you part
of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with proof from your Lord.
So fear Allah and obey me. Truly! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him
(Alone). This is the Straight Path."

Then when Jesus came to know of their disbelief he said: "Who will be my
helpers in Allah's Cause?" The disciples said: "We are the helpers of Allah; we
believe in Allah, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to Allah)."

Our Lord! We believe in what You have sent down, and we follow the Messenger
(Jesus); so write us down among those who bear witness (to the truth i.e. La
ilaha ill Allah - none has the right to be worshiped but Allah).

And they (disbelievers) plotted (to kill Jesus), and Allah planned too. And Allah is
the Best of the planners. Surah 3: 48-54

Allah Sends
the Disciples
a Feast
Jesus continued calling people to Almighty Allah and laying down for them what
might be called "the law of the Spirit." Once when standing on a mountain
surrounded by his disciples, Jesus saw that those who believed in him were from
among the poor, the wretched, and the downtrodden, and their number was
small.

Some of the miracles which Jesus performed had been requested by his disciples,
such as their wish for a "holy table" to be sent down from heaven.

Allah the Exalted said: (Remember) when the disciples said: "0 Jesus, son of
Mary! Can your Lord send down to us a table spread (with food) from heaven?"
Jesus said: "Fear Allah, if you are indeed believers." They said: "We wish to eat
thereof and to be stronger in Faith, and to know that you have indeed told us
the truth and that we ourselves be its witnesses."

Jesus, son of Mary, said: "0 Allah, our Lord! Send us from heaven a table spread
(with food) that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a festival
and a sign from You; and provide us sustenance, for You are the Best of
sustainers." Allah said: "I am going to send it down unto you, but if any of you
after that disbelieves, then I will punish him with a torment such as Iha ye not
inflicted on anyone among (all) the Alamin (mankind and jinn)." Surah 5: 112-116

It was related that Jesus commanded his disciples to fast for thirty days; at the
end of it, they asked Jesus to bring food from heaven to break their fast. Jesus
prayed to Allah after his disciples had doubted Allah's power. The great table
came down between two clouds, one above and one below, while the people
watched. Jesus said: "0 Lord, make it a mercy and not a cause of distress." So it
fell between Jesus's hands, covered with a napkin.

Jesus suddenly prostrated and his disciples with him. They sensed a fragrance
which they had never smelled before. Jesus said: 'The one who is the most
devout and most righteous may uncover the table, that we might eat of it to
thank Allah for it." They said: "0 Spirit of Allah, you are the most deserving."

Jesus stood up, then performed ablution and prayed before uncovering the table,
and behold, there was a roasted fish. The disciples said: "0 Spirit of Allah, is this
the food of this world or of Paradise?" Jesus said to his disciples: "Did not Allah
forbid you to ask questions? It is the divine power of Allah the Almighty Who
said: 'Be,' and it was. It is a sign from Almighty Allah warning of great punishment
for unbelieving mortals of the world. This is the kernel of the matter."

It is said that thousands of people partook of it, and yet they never exhausted it.
A further miracle was that the blind and lepers were cured.

The Day of the Table became one of the holy days for the disciples and followers
of Jesus. Later on, the disciples and followers forgot the real essence of the
miracles, and so they worshipped Jesus as a god.

Allah's
Questions to
Jesus
Almighty Allah asserted: And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of
Resurrection): "0 Jesus son of Mary! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my
mother as two gods besides Allah?"' He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for
me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely
have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in
Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden and unseen.
Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allah) did command me to say:
'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord', And I was a witness over them while I
dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over
them, and You are a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and
warning to the Christians of the whole world). If you punish them, they are Your
slaves, and if You forgive them, Verily You, only You are the All-Mighty the All-
Wise."

Allah will say: 'This is a Day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs
are Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise) - they shall abide therein
forever. Allah is pleased with them and they with Him. That is the great success
(Paradise). To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all
that is therein, and He is Able to do all things." Surah 5: 116-120

The Jews Plot
to Kill Jesus
Jesus went on with his mission until vice knew that its throne was threatening to
fall. So the forces of evil accused him of magic, infringement of the Mosaic Law,
allegiance with the devil; and when they saw that the poor people followed him,
they began to scheme against him.

The Sanhedrin, the highest judicial and eclesiastical council of the Jews, began to
meet to plot against Jesus. The plan took a new turn. When the Jews failed to
stop Jesus's call, they decided to kill him. The chief priests held secret meetings
to agree on the best way of getting rid of Jesus.

While they were in such a meeting, one of the twelve apostles of Jesus, Judas
Iscariot, went to them and asked: "What will you give me if I deliver him to you?"
Judas bargained with them until they agreed to give him thirty pieces of silver
known as shekels. The plot was laid for the capture and murder of Jesus.

It was said that the high priest of the Jews tore his garment at the meeting,
claiming that Jesus had denied Judaism. The tearing of clothes at that time was a
sign of disgust.

The Torture of
Jesus
The priests had no authority to pass the death sentence at that time, so they
convinced the Roman governor that Jesus was plotting against the security of
the Roman Empire and urged him to take immediate action against him. The
governor ordered that Jesus be arrested.

According to the Book of Matthew, Jesus was arrested and the council of the high
priests passed the death sentence upon him. Then, they began insulting him,
spitting on his face and kicking him.

It was the Roman custom for the condemned to be flogged before they were
executed. So Pilate, the Roman governor, ordered that Jesus be flogged. The
Mosaic Law stipulates forty lashes, but the Romans had no limit, and they were
brutal lashes. After that, Jesus was handed to the soldiers for crucifixion. They
took off his clothes and kept them. They put a crown of thorns on his head to
mock him. According to custom he carried his cross on his back to increase his
suffering.

Jesus's
Crucifixion -
Bible Version
Finally, they reached a place called Golgotha, meaning the Place of Skulls, outside
the walls of Jerusalem. Instead of giving him a cup of wine diluted with scent to
help lessen the pain on the cross, the soldiers gave Jesus a cup of vinegar
diluted with gall. Then they crucified him and, as a further mockery, two thieves
with him. So it is written in the Bible.

Jesus's
Crucifixion -
Qur'anic
But the faith of Islam came with views quite different from that of the extant
gospels with regards to both the end of Jesus and his nature.

The Glorious Qur'an affirms that Allah the Exalted did not permit the people of
Israel to kill Jesus or crucify him. What happened was that Allah saved him from
his enemies and raised him to heaven. They never killed Jesus; they killed
someone else.

Allah the Almighty declared: And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed
Messiah Jesus, son of Mary the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor
crucified him, but the resemblance of Jesus was put over another man (and they
killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no
(certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed
him not (i.e. Jesus, son of Mary): But Allah raised him (Jesus) up (with his body
and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allah is Ever All-Powerful,
all- Wise.

And there is none of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), but must
believe in him (Jesus, son of Mary as only a Messenger of Allah and a human
being), before his (Jesus or a Jew's or a Christian's) death (at the time of the
appearance of the angel of death). And on the Day of Resurrection, he (Jesus)
will be a witness against them. Surah 4: 157-159

Almighty Allah also revealed: And (remember) when Allah said: "0 Jesus! I will
take you and raise you to Myself and clear you (of the forged statement that
Jesus is Allah son) of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you
(Monotheists, who worship none but Allah) superior to those who disbelieve (in
the Oneness of Allah, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad,
Jesus, Moses, etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Torah, the Gospel, the Qur'an)
till the Day of Resurrection. Then you will return to Me and I will judge between
you in the matters in which you used to dispute. Surah 3: 55

And in continuing with the tradition of quoting, I will prove to you from the Hadiths that Muhammed was infact a very peaceful person. All those verses that you quoted were realeased in phases, and released as appropriate to the situations prevailing. And you were talking about my redership skills, please examine yours to. Go and re-read my post and see if I didn't admit that Islam was spread in some cases through war. But so alos was christianity and Judaism. And don't start giving me the story of the old testament being different from the new Testament to justify that Christianity is more peaceful. Even I acknowledged that the Torah, what you call the old testament was for the Jews, but what is curious is that the crusaders justified their bloody crusades using the Torah, since Jesus came to preach mercy. And I am sure you certainly believe in everything as constitued in the Old testament, otherwise, you should probably explain to me the creation, from the NT. Nw for the proof of Muhammed's peaceful nature.

His early days

Before he was six years old his mother died, and the doubly orphaned Muhammad was put under
the charge of his grandfather Abdul Muttalib who took tender care of him. But the old chief died
two years afterwards. On his deathbed he confided to his son Abu Talib the charge of the little
orphan.

When Muhammad was twelve years old, he accompanied his uncle Abu Talib on a mercantile
journey to Syria, and they proceeded as far as Busra. The journey lasted for some months. It was
at Busra that the Christian monk Bahira met Muhammad. He is related to have said to Abu Talib:
"Return with this boy and guard him against the hatred of the Jews, for a great career awaits your
nephew."

After this journey, the youth of Muhammad seems to have been passed uneventfully, but all
authorities agree in ascribing to him such correctness of manners and purity of morals as were
rare among the people of Mecca. The fair character and the honorable bearing of the unobtrusive
youth won the approbation of the citizens of Mecca, and by common consent he received the title
of "Al Ameen," The Faithful.

In his early years, Muhammad was not free from the cares of life. He had to watch the flocks of his
uncle, who, like the rest of the Barn Hashim, had lost the greater part of his wealth.

From youth to manhood he led an almost solitary life. The lawlessness rife among the Meccans,
the sudden outbursts of causeless and bloody quarrels among the tribes frequenting the Fair of
Okadh (the Arabian Olympia), and the immorality and skepticism of the Quraish, naturally caused
feelings of pity and sorrow in the heart of the sensitive youth. Such scenes of social misery and
religious degradation were characteristic of a depraved age.

Muhammad's
First Wife
When Muhammad was twenty-five years old, he traveled once more to Syria as
the factor of a noble and rich Quraishi widow named Khadijah; and, [b]having
proved himself faithful in the commercial interests of that lady, he was soon
rewarded with her hand in marriage. This marriage proved fortunate and
singularly happy. Khadijah was much the senior of her husband, but in spite of
the disparity of age between them, tender devotion on both sides existed. This
marriage gave him the loving heart of a woman who was ever ready to console
him in his despair and to keep alive within him the feeble, flickering flame of hope
when no man believed in him and the world appeared gloomy in his eyes.

The
Conditions in
Mecca
Until he reached thirty years of age, Muhammad was almost a stranger to the
outside world. Since the death of his grandfather, authority in Mecca was divided
among the ten senators who constituted the governing body of the Arabian
Commonwealth. There was no such accord among them as to ensure the safety
of individual rights and property. Though family relations afforded some degree
of protection to citizens, strangers were frequently exposed to persecution and
oppression. In many cases they were robbed, not only of their goods, but even
of their wives and daughters. At the instigation of the faithful Muhammad, an old
league called the Federation of Fudul, i.e., favors, was revived with the object of
repressing lawlessness and defending every weak individual - whether Meccan
or stranger, free or slave - against any wrong or oppression to which he might
be the victim within the territories of Mecca. [/b]



Muhammed's(SAW) relationship with christians of the yesteryears
It was about this time that the Prophet granted to the monks of the Monastery of St. Catherine,
near Mount Sinai, his liberal charter by which they secured for the Christians noble and generous
privileges and immunities. [b]He undertook himself, and enjoined his followers, to protect the
Christians, to defend their churches and the residences of their priests and to guard them from all
injuries. They were not to be unfairly taxed; no bishop was to be driven out of his diocese; no
Christian was to be forced to reject his religion; no monk was to be expelled from his monastery;
no pilgrim was to be stopped from his pilgrimage; nor were the Christian churches to be pulled
down for the sake of building mosques or houses for the Muslims. Christian women married to
Muslims were to enjoy their own religion and not to be subjected to compulsion or annoyance of
any kind. If the Christians should stand in need of assistance for the repair of their churches or
monasteries, or any other matter pertaining to their religion, the Muslims were to assist them. This
was not to be considered as supporting their religion, but as simply rendering them assistance in
special circumstances. Should the Muslims be engaged in hostilities with outside Christians, no
Christian resident among the Muslims should be treated with contempt on account of his creed.
The Prophet declared that any Muslim violating any clause of the charter should be regarded as a
transgressor of Allah's commandments, a violator of His testament and neglectful of His faith. [/b]



His first revelation

Renowned compilers of authentic traditions of Islam agree on the following account of the first
revelations received by the Prophet.

Muhammad would seclude himself in the cave of Mount Hira and worship three days and nights.
He would, whenever he wished, return to his family at Mecca and then go back again, taking with
him the necessities of life. Thus he continued to return to Khadijah from time to time until one day
the revelation came down to him and the Angel Gabriel (Jibreel) appeared to him and said:
"Read!" But as Muhammad was illiterate, having never received any instruction in reading or
writing, he said to the angel: "I am not a reader." The angel took hold of him and squeezed him as
much as he could bear, and then said again: "Read!" The Prophet said: "I am not a reader." The
Angel again seized the Prophet and squeezed him and said: "Read! In the Name of your Lord,
Who has created (all that exists), has created man from something that clings. Read! And your
Lord is the Most Generous, Who has taught (the writing) by the pen, has taught man that which
he knew not. Surah 96: 1-5

uhammad
Speaks with
Khadijah and
Waraqa
Then the Prophet repeated the words with a trembling heart. He returned to
Khadijah from Mount Hira and said: "Wrap me up! Wrap me up!" She wrapped
him in a garment until his fear was dispelled. He told Khadijah what had
occurred and that he was becoming either a soothsayer or one smitten with
madness. She replied: "Allah forbid! He will surely not let such a thing happen,
for you speak the truth, you are faithful in trust, you bear the afflictions of the
people, you spend in good works what you gain in trade, you are hospitable
and you assist your fellow men. Have you seen anything terrible?"

Muhammad replied: 'Yes," and told her what he had seen. Whereupon,
Khadijah said: "Rejoice, 0 dear husband and be cheerful. He in Whose hands
stands Khadijah's life bears witness to the truth of this fact, that you will be the
prophet to this people." Then she arose and went to her cousin Waraqa Ibn
Naufal, who was old and blind and who knew the Scriptures of the Jews and
the Christians, and is stated to have translated them into Arabic.

When she told him of what she had heard, he cried out: "Holy! Holy! Verily, this
is the Namus (The Holy Spirit) who came to Moses. He will be the prophet of his
people. Tell him this and bid him be brave of heart."

When the two men met subsequently in the street, the blind old student of the
Jewish and Christian Scriptures spoke of his faith and trust: "I swear by Him in
Whose hand Waraqa's life is, Allah has chosen you to be the prophet of this
people. They will call you a liar, they will persecute you, they will banish you,
they will fight against you. Oh, that I could live to those days. I would fight for
these." And he kissed him on his forehead.

Muhammad
Begins
Preaching
The first vision was followed by a considerable period, during which Muhammad
suffered much mental depression. The angel spoke to the grieved heart of hope
and trust and of the bright future when he would see the people of the earth
crowding into the one true faith. His destiny was unfolded to him when,
wrapped in profound meditation, melancholy and sad, he felt himself called by a
voice from heaven to arise and preach. 0 you (Muhammad) enveloped (in
grments)! Arise and warn! And your Lord (Allah) magnify! Surah 74: 1-3

He arose and engaged himself in the work to which he was called. Khadijah
was the first to accept his mission. She was to believe in the revelations, to
abandon the idolatry of her people and to join him in purity of heart and in
offering up prayers to Allah the Almighty.

Muhammad
Speaks with
Abu Talib
At the beginning of his mission, Muhammad - hereinafter called the Prophet -
opened his soul only to those who were attached to him and tried to free them
from the gross practices of their forefathers. After Khadijah, his cousin Ali was
the next companion. The Prophet used often to go into the desert around
Mecca with his wife and young cousin that they might together offer their
heart-felt thanks to the Lord of all nations for His manifold blessings. Once they
were surprised by Abu Talib, the father of Ali.

He said to the Prophet: "0 son of my brother, what is this religion you are
following?" "It is the religion of Allah of His Angels, of His Messengers and of our
ancestor Abraham," answered the Prophet. "Allah has sent me to His servants,
to direct them towards the truth, and you, 0 my uncle, are the most worthy of
all. It is meet that I should thus call upon you and it is meet that you should
accept the truth and help in spreading it."

Abu Talib replied: "Son of my brother, I cannot abjure the religion of my fathers;
but by the Supreme Lord, while I am alive, none shall dare to injure you." Then
turning towards Ali, the venerable chief asked what religion was his. Ali
answered: "0 father, "I believe in Allah and His Prophet and go with him." Abu
Talib replied: "Well my son, he will not call you to anything except what is good,
therefore you are free to go with him."

Muhammad's
First Three
Years
After Ali, Muhammad's adopted son Zaid became a convert to the new faith. He
was followed by Abu Bakr, a leading member of the Quraish tribe and an
honest, wealthy merchant who enjoyed great consideration among his
compatriots. He was but two years younger than the Prophet. His adoption of
the new faith was of great moral effect. Soon after, five notables presented
themselves before the Prophet and accepted Islam. Several converts also came
from lower classes of the Arabs to adopt the new religion.

For three weary long years, the Prophet labored very quietly to deliver his
people from the worship of idols. Polytheism was deeply rooted among the
people. It offered attractions which the new faith in its purity did not possess.
The Quraish had personal material interests in the old worship, and their
prestige was dependent upon its maintenance. The Prophet had to contend
with the idolatrous worship of its followers and to oppose the ruling oligarchy
which governed its destinies.

Muhammad's
First Address to
the Public
After three years of constant but quiet struggle, only thirty followers were
secured. An important change now occurred in the relations of the Prophet with
the citizens of Mecca. His compatriots had begun to doubt his sanity, thinking
him crazy or possessed by an evil spirit. Hitherto he had preached quietly and
unobtrusively. He now decided to appeal publicly to the Meccans, requesting
them to abandon their idolatry.

For this he arranged a gathering on a neighboring hill and there spoke to them
of their folly in the sight of Allah in worshipping pieces of stone which they
called their gods. He invited them to abandon their old impious worship and
adopt the faith of love, truth, and purity. He warned them of the fate that had
overtaken past races who had not heeded the preaching of former prophets.
But the gathering departed without listening to the warning given them by the
Prophet.

Muhammad
Attempts to
Address
Foreigners
Having thus failed to induce his fellow citizens to listen to him, he turned his
attention to the strangers arriving in the city on commerce or pilgrimage. But
the Quraish made attempts to frustrate his efforts. They hastened themselves
to meet the strangers first on the different routes, to warn them against
holding any communication with the Prophet, whom they represented as a
dangerous magician. When the pilgrims or traders returned to their homes,
they carried with them the news of the advent of the bold preacher who was
inviting the Arabs loudly - at the risk of his own life - to abandon the worship of
their dear idols.

Some
Persecutions
Faced by the
Believers
Now the Prophet and his followers became subject to some persecution and
indignity. The hostile Quraish prevented the Prophet from offering his prayers
at the Sacred House of the Kaba; they pursued him wherever he went; they
covered him and his disciples with dirt and filth when engaged in their
devotions; they scattered thorns in the places which he frequented for
devotion and meditation. Amidst all these trials the Prophet did not waver. He
was full of confidence in his mission, even when on several occasions he was
put in imminent danger of losing his life.

The Prophet continued preaching to the Arabs in a most gentle and reasonable manner. He called
the people, so accustomed to iniquity and wrong-doings, to abandon their abominations. In
burning words which excited the hearts of his hearers, he warned them of the punishment which
Allah had inflicted upon the ancient tribes of 'Ad and Thamud who had obstinately disobeyed the
teachings of Allah's messengers to them. He adjured them by the wonderful sights of nature, by
the noonday brightness, by the night when it spreads its veil, by the day when it appears in glory
to listen to his warning before a similar destruction befell them. He spoke to them of the Day of
Reckoning, when their deeds in this world will be weighed before the Eternal Judge, when the
children who had been buried alive will be asked for what crime they were put to death.
In this year, twelve men of Yathrib, of whom ten were of the Jewish tribe of Khazraj and the other
two of Aws, came to Mecca and took an oath of fidelity to the Prophet at AlAqaba, a hill on the
north of that city. This oath was called the Womens' Oath, not that any women were present at
this time, but because a man was not thereby obliged to take up arms in defense of the Prophet
or his religion, it being the same oath that was afterwards exacted of the women. This oath was
as follows: "We will not associate anything with Allah; we will not steal nor commit adultery or
fornication, nor kill our children (as the pagan Arabs used to do when they apprehended that they
would not be able to maintain them), nor forge calumnies; we will obey the Prophet in everything
that is reasonable, and we will be faithful to him in well and sorrow." When they had solemnly
engaged to do all this, the Prophet sent one of his disciples, Musab Ibn Umair, home with them to
teach them the fundamental doctrines and ceremonies of the religion. Mus'ab, having arrived at
Yathrib by the assistance of those who had been formerly converted, gained several new
converts, particulary Usaid Ibn Khudair, a chief man of the city, and Sad Ibn Mu'adh, prince of the
tribe of Aws. Islam spread so fast that there was scarcely a house that did not have some Muslims
in it.
The next year, being the thirteenth of the mission (A.D. 622) Musab returned from Yathrib
accompanied by seventy-three men and two women of that city who had adopted Islam, besides
others who were as yet unbelievers. On their arrival, these Yathribites immediately sent to the
Prophet and invited him to their city. The Prophet was now in great need of such assistance, for
his opponents had by this time grown so powerful in Mecca that he could not stay there much
longer without imminent danger. He therefore accepted their proposal and met them one night by
appointment at Al-Aqaba attended by his uncle Al Abbas, who, though he was not then a convert,
wished his nephew well.

Al Abbas made a speech to those of Yathrib wherein he told them that, as the Prophet Muhammad
was obliged to quit his native city and seek shelter elsewhere, and they had offered him their
protection, they would do well not to deceive him; and that if they were not firmly resolved to
defend and not to betray him, they had better declare their minds and let him provide for his
safety in some other manner. Upon their professing their sincerity, the Prophet swore to be
faithful to them, on condition that they should worship none but Allah observe the precepts of
Islam, obey the Prophet in all that was right, and protect him against all insults as heartily as they
would their wives and families. They then asked him what would be their return, if they should
happen to be killed in the cause of Allah; he answered:' "Paradise," whereupon they pledged their
faith to him and his cause.

The Prophet then selected twelve men out of their number to act as his delegates. Thus was
concluded the second covenant of Al Aqaba. The Yathribites returned home leaving the Prophet to
arrange for the journey to their city. The Prophet directed his followers to seek immediate safety
at Yathrib, which they accordingly did. About one hundred families silently disappeared from Mecca
and proceded to Yathrib, where they were received with enthusiasm and much hospitality. Finally,
all the disciples had gone to Yathrib. The Prophet alone remained at Mecca, keeping with him only
his young cousin Ali, and his devoted friend Abu Bakr.

History
Towards the second year of the hijrah, the idolaters of Mecca began a series of
hostile acts against the Muslims of Medina. They sent men in parties to commit
depredations on the fruit trees of the Muslims of Medina and to carry away their
flocks. Now came the moment of severest trial to Islam. It became the duty of the
Prophet to take serious measures to guard against any plot rising from within or a
sudden attack from without. He put Medina in a state of military discipline. He had to
send frequent reconnoitering parties to guard against any sudden onslaught.

No sooner did the Prophet organize his state than a large well-equipped army of the
Meccans was afield. A force consisting of one thousand men marched under Abu Jahl,
a great enemy of Islam, towards Medina to attack the city. The Muslims received
timely notice of their enemies' intention. A body of three hundred adherents, of whom
two thirds were citizens of Medina, was gathered to forestall the idolaters by
occupying the valley of Badr, situated near the sea between Mecca and Medina. When
the Prophet saw the army of the infidels approaching the valley, he prayed that the
little band of Muslims might not be destroyed.

The army of the Meccans advanced into the open space which separated the Muslims
from the idolaters. According to Arab usage, the battle was begun by simple combats.
The engagement then became general. The result of the battle was that the Meccans
were driven back with great loss. Several of their chiefs were slain, including Abu Jahl.
A large number of idolaters remained prisoners in the hands of the Muslims. They
were, contrary to all usage and traditions of the Arabs, treated with the greatest
humanity. The Prophet gave strict orders that sympathy should be shown them in
their misfortune and that they should be treated with kindness. These instructions
were faithfully obeyed by the Muslims to whose care the prisoners were confided.
Dealing with this event, Sir William Muir, in his book Life of Muhammad, quotes one of
the prisoners saying: "Blessing be on the men of Medina; they made us ride, while
they themselves walked; they gave us wheaten bread to eat, when there was little of
it, contenting themselves with dates."

The
Battle of
Badr -
Qur'anic
Almighty Allah said: And Allah has already made you victorious at Badr, when you
were a weak little force. So fear Allah much abstain from all kinds of sins and evil
deeds which He has forbidden and love Allah much, perform all kinds of good deeds
which He has ordained that you may be grateful. (Remember) when you (Muhammad)
said to the believers, "Is it not enough for you that your Lord (Allah) should help you
with three thousand angels; sent down? Yes, if you hold on to patience and piety and
the enemy comes rushing at you; your Lord will help you with five thousand angels
having marks (of distinction). Allah made it not but as a message of good news for
you and as an assurance to your hearts. And there is no victory except from Allah the
All-Mighty the All-wise. That He might cut off a part of those who disbelieve, or expose
them to infamy so that they retire frustrated. " Surah 3: 123-127

A Little
Insight
on the
Battle of
Badr
The remarkable circumstances which led to the victory of Badr and the results which
followed from it made a deep impression on the minds of the Muslims: the angels of
heaven had battled on their side against their enemies. The division of the spoils
created some dissension between the Muslim warriors. For the moment, the Prophet
divided it equally among all. Subsequently, a Qur'an revelation laid down a rule for
future division of the spoils. According to this rule, a fifth was reserved for the public
treasury for the support of the poor and indigent, while the distribution of the
remaining four fifths was left to the discretion of the Chief of the State.


Now my dear mlks_baby, I hope this answers all your questions. You must also know that Muhammed (SAW) won over many people by being peaceful. The Quranic verses that tell muslims to fight the unbelievers most times reffered to Pagans, not Christians, and judging by the kind of persecution they faced, it was only natural. However, later Jews and christians joined the pagans in persecuting Muslims, and this led to the confrontation between Islam and christianity.

And ur claim that Allah in the Quran is polytheist is unfounded. Please don't descend to the level of We vs I, as that is pure grammer. As you can see from the foregoing, it is said innumerably in the Quran that God is one to Muslims.


And since you like reading, I hope this makes a wonderful reading to you.


Cheers.

Perfectly put Idekson.

@ mrlawng

I see,

@ Idekson
While I agree with you that freedom of expression is a right, but you must also agree that your rights stop where other people's own starts. And I must say tolerance and respect for other people's beliefs is a right. In the charter of the United Nations, freedom from discrimination against race, religion, tribe, sex etc are all described as rights. Except if you have another source of the definition of rights, I suppose this holds true everywhere.

@mamaput

Please do not shut up. I understand your plight. You see, one thing I find interesting abut the christian faith is that it is a religion of the majority. Whatever the majority says holds sawy, irrespective of whether it is true or not. When I was a kid, I used to attend Church of God mission, and then later Neighbours international. At that time, everybody said Jesus is the Son of God. I mean, in the 70's that's all we used to hear. Allof a sudden in the 80's and 90's, we started hearing Jesus is God. And of course the bible still provided evidence for this. Methinks that whenever the rich countries feel like changing the doctrine that is taught especially in protestant churches, they call a few misiters and pastors together, show them the new doctrine, and back them up with money. Before long, it catches like wild fire. During the time of Jesus, evidence available in history books show that he was considered human. 400 years later, he became divine by an act of a meeting in 325 A.D. You see, that's how it works. And it's this problem of declaring anything that contradicts their beliefs as devlish that plunged mankind into the dark ages. Thank God for the scientific renaissance, we still would have been in bondage.

They claim muslims are intolerant, and are quick to point out that we are prone to fights, but forget the immediate past history of christianity and it's flag bearers. It may interest you to know that God said a certain group of christians would enter heaven, in the Quran. He said they were christians, and they were Sabians, they believed in their lord, and they will be admitted into Gardens under which rivers flow. These particular group of christians are the monotheist. Not the polytheists that are prevalent today. And God even allows muslims to marry them, nd eat their food. How much tolerant can a religion get?

@ TayoD

Please explain fully and in the most simple manner the statement, the wages of sin is death.

@mlks_baby

You keep on referring to lackof wisdom and unfounded allegations. The only person guilty of these is you. You research before you talk? Wow, I guess research must mean something else to you-probably mediocrity, yeah it sums it all up. That the Quran does not say Judas died did not mean that there were no other Islamic sources. The hadiths for one say so and I believe in the hadiths as much as the Quran.

When I stated that we shouldn't quote the Holy books (our own that is) to justify our claims I also invited scrutiny of the Holy books from the other divide, which in my own case means you can tear the Quran apart if you so wish to, and bring out perceived mistakes. Now does this not suggest to you that I am so confident about it? I mean what's all this talk of not being sure? It is you who is so insecure that when lessons, verses or passages from the bible are quoted, u choose the easy way out-declaring them as unfounded. Do you mean that the biblical verse that said the wages of sin is death was fabricated? And if Judas died immediately after his treachery, couldn't it be inferred he died for his actions? It was even stated in the verse you yourself or TayoD quoted when the bible described how Judas died. All I am saying is, I belived he died in another way, and I infact agree it may be that he died atoning for his sin. I hope it's now easy for you to understand?

Those verses you quoted from the Quran are small when compared with the ones I know. Yes, the Quran orders Muslims to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil. I know the bible orders christians to do the same in the old testament when God told the Jews to smite them (pagans) and kill them, burn their places of worship etc. Something they carried out ffectively. And if you say Islam spread by the sword, it is correct, but lets not ignore that it also had an arm that spread by the good of which it is made. Christianity is even more guilty than Islam in this respect. It not only spread by the sword, it also did so by the gun, and even promoted slavery-something Islam sought to abolish 1400 years ago. So my dear, remove the log in your eye, before removing the speck in your neighbour's.

I can now see your ignorance about Islamic Issues. Ask any muslim, anybody that lived during the time of Muhammad (SAW0 and was muslim was his companion. The companions may have had varying degrees of closeness to the Prophet (SAW), but they were not disciples like in the case of Jesus(ASW) where we had 12 that had to spread his teachings. You talked of Abu Musa, was there only one Abu Musa (RA) please, do some real research and stop paying lip service to the word. If you studied usoolul Hadith which I studied to some extent, you would understand that a lot of people collected the sayings and doings of the Prophet (SAW), and they were all considered to be his companions. At no single instance did the Prophet (SAW) have a constant number of people with him.

What is the use of quoting the bible to me, when I probably would disbelieve the authenticity of the verse if it does not corroborate what I believe in? But since you never tire of typing,  please continue. I will however state the Islamic beliefs whether they are supported by the Quran or Hadiths, apply logic to them, and spare the whole house of boring quotes. You are welcome to present your fabled syllogism so  long as they support your case, and are not just a ploy for you to show you studied some logic in school.

I await thee,

@ mrlawng

What do you believe? Give reasons too.

@ nferyn

I couldn't have put it better. That's the problem with some christian prophets and even Nostradamus, they make vague predictions. Recently, in breaking with the usual vague tradition, one of them actually predicted that inspite of not qualifying for world cup 2006, Nigeria will be at the mundial. I am skeptically awaiting this to pass.

In Islam, the prophesies of Muhammed (SAW) were accurately made and came to pass. So are still yet to pass, but they will. Example, when the persians and the romans were in battle of attrition, Muhammed (SAW) said the Romans were going to defeat the persians in seven years and it came to pass. At that time, it would have been inconceivable that it would happen. And he urged the Muslims to celebrate with the Romans because then some of them still believed in monotheism. Another was whe he predicted the fall of constantinople, and it's eventual liberation by Muslim forces. Constantinople is now Istanbul. What could be more accurate? There are so many predictions that actually came to pass. The list is endless.

@ mlks_ baby

While the bible or the Quran does not say Judas died for his own sins, if we are to go by one very popular quote from the bible-the wages of sin is death, then it will be safe to conclude that if it were true that Judas was crucified, then it can only be to atone for his sins of betraying Jesus. There was no better way of putting it since it's the Muslim belief. So thinking I was throwing cheap punches was wrong.

Your assumption that I am Shiite is incorrect. And the sunni do not believe the caliphs were disciples, they are companions and not disciples like those associated with Jesus. So everybody that lived in the time of the prophet (SAW) was his companion. That he was a failure is only a matter of your own conjuring. Even TIme Magazine voted him as the most influetial and successful man of all time-ahead of Jesus. If he spread Islam by sword, how did he convert Medina with only two other companions? Using the machine Gun I suppose? And if he was a failure, Islam will not be as large as it is today when viewed against the backdrop that it came 600 years after christianity. In fact, the Quran tells us more about Jrsus than you would admit. we believe Jesus (ASW) did not die. He ascended to God in human form, so excavating his "body" will only help us scientifically verify that our postulations on Judas are correct. We think logically, don't u agree?

Well it was you who said

This is one reason why I'm taking my time to answer some of your requests.

, and so I was surprised when you said you could respond as you pleased, I didn't even suggest you shouldn't. Hmm. Seems to me like a one-man riot squad who on a discriminate shooting spree, shot himself afterall.

I see your point about Nuru, and I admit you are right. Ok, may be re-writing the rules, would help. A muslim should not use the Quran to try prove his case since christians do not believe in it. Instead, he should resort to scientific evidence that is fact accross board. Ditto for vice versa. However, opposing camps can quote from the book of the opposing religion. I hope this is clear enoug, and you accept it. That way, we will be able to point out all the faults as we see them in the other person's book, and will enable us save typing many characters to prove our case from our books even though we know people would not believe it.

Your last staement is probably your own opinion. I expect that in due course, you will see how wrong you are. Islam and logic are in perfect harmony.

@ mlks_baby

This time around you were throwing cheap punches that do not help the case you are presenting. How can you ask me why Judas died on the cross. U said maybe it was to atone for my sins? The thieves that were purpotedly crucified with Jesus, were they also atoning for your own sins? Judas must have atoned for his sins, if you want me to simplify it for you.

Your second poser is more preposterous. Firstly Muhammed had no disciples. Secondly, knowing where Judas was buried will allow for the excavation of his body so that at least we could have some scientific data available about who he really was, race, ethnicity etc, as this may also answer some questions about Jesus (ASW). Even if Judas was crucified, surely he was buried. So, I don't know why you seem so angry at that question. However, the question was not directed at you, so if you do not want to answer it or any other, please feel free not to.

Please all, when I ask you questions about Jesus (ASW) please could you prove your case without resort to the bible? May be consult some history books? You see, when you ask about Islam, most times I try to explain by logic, and avoid as much as possible quotes from the Quran-since it's authenticity is doubtful to you. So please employ the same tactics as the Bible as it is constituted today is not credible to me.

@GL

I sense a certain sense of mainstream thinking in your last response. You claim the Iranian President is killing in the name of Islam. Could you please give credence to this claim? Is it because the West, especially US has chosen to make him the next bad guy that you say so? Or do you have proofs of instances he killed in the name of ISlam? This is what I said in some of my previous posts. We are afraid to counter mainstream thinking no matter how manipulated it is because of our own social standing, group memberships, career prospects, etc. Pre-Iraqi invasion, America played the tape of WMD in Iraq as a reason to justify it's invasion plans. Years after, no WMDs were found, then the story changed to Saddam's oppression of his people-which was true by the way. But, how many times before this has America invaded a country because the lleader oppressed it's people? Nigeria under Abacha, Libya, Cuba, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and most countries in the middle east are other examples, why did US not invade them to remove their despotic leaders? Hmmmm. You know, before Iraq was invaded G. Bush set the tone for the countries he would uproot after Iraq, Iran and North Korea featured prominently. Instead of calling Bush's campaign evil, we prefer to agree because he is attacking our perceived enemies. Do you realise that there is nothing Iran is doing now that is against International law? It signed a nuclear non-proliferation treaty, and this treaty allows her to pursue peaceful Nuclear programs- http://www.un.org/Depts/dda/WMD/treaty/ . So it is perfectly lawful. To say Iran intends to use it for military purposes is absolutely speculative, and law doesn't work on speculation.  Besides, India, Israel and Pakistan all developed Nuclear Weapons even after the treaty came into force, nobody raised an eyebrow. In fact the US rewarded India by agreeing to cooperate with it for civilian nuclear purposes. So, why is it making all the noise about Iran's nuclear program? And you do not know also that Ayatollah Khameini issued a fatwa against the production of Nuclear Weapons in Iran. If like you all agree that fatwa's are carried out efficiently by the Iranian regime, why would the international community doubt Iran's motives. But like I said before, you cannot judge people by their intentions until an attempt is made in the direction of making nuclear weapons. Already experts have said you would require over a thousand centrifuges to make the most basic Nuclear weapons, while they also acknowledged Iran is still very far from that point, so why all the bruohaha? I am personally against a Nuclear armed Iran, or any other country for that matter, but I will not support a violation of law, or adoption of hard tactics against the Iranian regime when it is illegal to do so.

Israel may be a mixture of religious and political issues, but I must ask you. If it were christians that populated the middle east at the time of Israel's creation, would you advice  that they simply scurried away tail in between their legs as they were being forcefully ejected from the place they had known to be home for so long? Are you saying it would have been different if it were in an european country that the kind of injustice meted out to those palestinians was carried out. Are you saying that if Yorubas (christians) were resettled in Igbo land(Christians) forcefully, the Igbos should just keep quiet and allow it happen? Please respond to these questions.


More later

@ Idekson

I certainly agree with you that Muslims need to deal with a lot of their insecurities, but people who seek out to provoke them are not helping matters. First, before it gets to a stage where they can tolerate vile jokes as what they are-jokes, we need to tell them we can accomodate dissenting views without applying unsavoury names to them in order to hang them. It's a different thing if someone said Muhammed (SAW) was inspired by the devil, and he writes a book about it. Most Muslims will just ignore that person. And example is when a group of chrisitian Arabs wrote a book called the True Furqan, which they claim to be the priginal Quran. This book had such principles as trinity etc. The Muslim world just raised awareness about it, but never issued fatwas or death threats or the likes. I am sure a major part of the world never even heard of this incident. And as I speak, it is being distributed to young Kuwaitis in schools.
But when you call Muhammed (SAW) a terrorist, especially deriving support from recent occurences where oppressed Muslims have had to resort to desperate measures to preserve their stock, then you would have opened an already sore wound. Thus my analysis of the cartoon riots is that it was a way of Muslims fighting their perceived and real malignment in modern world affairs. And most times you can't feel this siege if you are not a Muslim, or you've got prejudices against Islam. So my dear brother, convince your own people, be they atheist, pagan, christian, agnostic, hindu, budhist, and so on, that they need to restrain what they say about other people. I personally think it's very unneccessary to even make jokes about what other people believe or do not believe in, except ofcourse if you do it within your own enclave. However, the moment you let the othe person know how you feel about what he believes/ or doesn't believe in, you have sown the seed of resentment and hate. Please be advised.

@ TayoD

What you said defeats logic. Why would a just God sacrifice his son for you? I mean kill someone without sin for a sinless person, doesn't that just give you a sense of nostalgia? I mean in Naija, a poor innocent man is killed for a rich guilty one by the law. Is this what you say God is doing? However the Islamic position that Judas was mistaken for Jesus and crucified instead is more plausible. Aftreall Judas betrayed him according to the Bible, so it was akin to atoning for his sins. Also, historically, nothing was said about where Judas was buried after his 'suicide'in the bible. But I can tell you the disciples were shocked to see Jesus in person after he was taught to be dead- even the bible reports this. If you say Jesus resurrected, did he do so in body or spirit? If it's in body, that is totally impossible, especially as his body will not be suitable for him to use again with all that sin on his back. But if it was in spirit, then I will invite archaelogists to start digging for his remains, may be we can get a DNA test that will finally solve the puzzle.

@ Reverend

You stated an inconsistency again. The highest power available is actually 873 000 volts. You can contact either the Russian utility company for that, or some states in the US. In the UK unfortunatel, it seems to be just 330 000 volts.

As for being Pressed, I have experienced it, and like Nuru said, I screamed Authubillah minash shaitani Rajeem and the episode seemed to disappear. But I do not disbelieve that it is sleep paralysis. I actually concur with those who have carried out research on the topic. My screaming 'I seek refuge in God against the accursed Satan'only helped trigger the conscious part of my brain into action, and thus it restored my muscular movements. But I guess I was still in a state of half-sleep, as I relapsed back to sleep,. But when I woke up, I could see it all vividly. Now being religious, the tendency would be to think that I was under attack spiritually. But having done research on it, I have concluded that it can only be sleep paralysis. But it is good to be religious so that whatever you say will bring your brain back to life. Some people become paralysed or even die from it because they didn't have the correct signals to wake the part of the brain responsible.

However, I got advice for all those people who are deeply religious, as one of my facilitators at Lagos Business School said, believe that only intraeneous factors are responsible for your success as a human being. The moment you start believing that extraeneous  factors play a part in your success, you would have been held captive as a victim of your own circumstances.

@ nferyn

The Da Vinci Code as a movie struck me as a mixture of fiction and symbolism mixed with some historical facts most people never realized. But to think it's entirely based on fact will be defeating the strong logic I have seen in most of your arguments. Much as I would have liked it to be true so that the divinity of Jesus would be shown to be concoted, I dare say Dan Brown really cannot back up the supposed "facts" in the book. I guess it only follows the trend of some of his other books like ANGELS & DEMONS, which I believe to be even more interesting than the Da VInci Code. The first five chapters of this book are online at www.danbrown.com/novels/angels_demons/excerpt1.htm. I also know that Robert Langdon seems to be ubiqitous in all his writings. He is a really nice character though-very likeable.

I think he is one smart dude who is employing demagoguery to sell his books and become a rich man. He is definitely succeeding judging from the reactions of people all over the world. t's attracting not just skeptical christians, but an anxious community of Jews, Hindus, Muslims and Budhists. I actually watched the movie in a hall that had 75% of it's viewers being Hindu. The reverend is right however, it's not worth all the fuss. Like I said in another post, if I were christian, I wouldn't even lose sleep over it.

@ Mlks_baby

Please provide your references that the Quran acknowledges that Jesus was indeed crucified. If you can prove this beyong reasonable doubt (even if it were just only subtly pointing to that fact) then I will renounce Islam. I await your response mon amie.

@ Nuru,

You put everything well. I hope she takes your advice. Sometimes I wonder why the mongoloids, when they read the Quran, suddenly realise their errors, and in a fit of epiphany change to Islam, and become very faithful adherents. I wish our Negroid brothers, and indeed all other races read the Quran, and assess it themselves.

I will also want to say, Muslims are better advised to use their own good deeds to pray to God for things rather than use other people like Jesus (ASW), and Muhammed(SAW). There are obvious reasons for this.

@ allonym
I understand ur point. Almost everything in life now is so blurry, there seems to be no clear distinction even in traditional good or bad circumstances.

@ Ikamefa

Simple, if you are used to having multiple girls, first you may wanna have one. Make sure she is someone who is morally upright. Then, you could start limiting ur urge for sex by ensuring you do not put urself in ackward positions where it would be hard to muster self restraint. I would also suggest you fast at least twice in a week. It has been shown to limit sexual urge in those that do it.

@ Nubian

In a previous post, I had asserted that it is convenient for people to look at the manifestations of injustice meted out to muslims, and instead blame them for the reactions they often give. U were talking of how muslims spread the religion thru violence, now wouldn't that be self righteousness especially when you view the history of Judaism, and christianity that even caried out more bloody campaigns to expand their frontiers? The truth is from time immemorial, mankind has killed in the name of God. It didn't start with Islam, and it wouldn't finish with Islam, so to single out the Jihad by the Hausa Fulani to expand their territory and kingdoms using spread of Islam as an excuse is rather simplistic. And U said as evidence of Islamic bloodthirstiness, Jihad is allowed in the Quran. Tell me, is the right to defend yourself not allowed in the bible? Or do you believe in the doctrine of turning the other side in the face of open provocation and attempts to extirpate you because of your belief? Why would a pastor, I don't remember his name, ask that christians assasinate the President of Venezuela because he disagrees with a Bush-led America? This happened in 2006. So what's all the talk about peace and love being christian ideology? Yet you accuse the mullahs of preaching hate. Before you say that the muslims who blow themselves up are aggressors, you need to go back in history to examine America's foreign policy in these countries. Covert and overt operations to kill legitimate leaders are carried out when it suits America's purpose, tyrannical leadership that cooperate with the Americans are installed irrespective of whether these regimes believe in Democracy or not. Just in the same way America tries to suppress other countries that have resources that they want, including Nigeria, they push these people to the brink, and when they react, they are labeled terrorists, fundamentalists, killers in order to demonise them and draw away attention from the root causes.

Now you were talking of women equality. Hmmm. It may serve you well to go into history to research the early days of christianity. Have you ever heard of the sentence, women are to be seen, not heard? Where did that quote come from? Until th 1940's, in many European countries, women were not allowed to vote. Before the 20th century's 1st war, women were not allowed to work without the permission of their husbands. And even before then, pre-industrial revolution Europe, they were not even allowed to work at all. Now all these in the region that spread the message of christianity. What's all the talk about equality? The Muslim countries that refuse to allow Women vote are not doing so based on any Islamic doctrine, but on their own cultures. And in Saudi Arabia, women are allowed to drive so long as they are accompanied by a male companion that is their Mahram (Husband, brother, father). And don't get started that this is servitude because in any case these women are taken care of by their husbands. Before such rules can be implemented, there would have been adequate measures put in place to ensure that they are catered for completely. What better treatment can there be for them? Asking them to dress half-nude to attract men for commercial reasons? Or subjecting them to the harsh and inhumane working conditions that men are subjected to by the virtue of the command of God that he shall toil to make a living? And just to clear thing s up completely, the 1st wife of the Prophet Muhammed (SAW) was a rich business woman who actually employed his services before they got married. Now that was 1400 years ago in Arabia. The Prohet (SAW) never objected to her working. This alone should prove to you that in Muslim countries where they are not allowed to work, it's not Islam at play, but their individual cultures because even the Prophet (SAW) prescribed certain jobs for women.

You find it convenient to cite instances of when religion was used to fight the political battles of our power-hungry and depraved Northern elite, seeing those battles as a religious one inspite of the fact that southern Muslims are also killed in any supposedly religious riots there. Doesn't that tell you something? Why would a muslim kill another one when he is fighting a holy war? How many tims have southern muslims demonstarted against Pastors evangelizing in their areas? If you know Iwo, you would know it's predominantly muslim, yet they get visitors each year trying to proselytize to them and no protests happen. This alone should demonstarte to you that ur argument on this issue holds no water. ' Imole' ? It keeps getting better. The christians termed Islam that way to denigrate it and show the wetsrners that christianity is better than Islam because Islam seeks to force itself on people. Did you know that there were muslims in western Nigeria before even the North became muslim? And these people accepted Islam from visiting traders as far back as the 17th century? Were they also forced to accept Islam? Besides, the missionaries inspite of their christian faith actually carried out heinous crimes against the blacks by enslaving them using the pretext of spreading christianity. Should we judge christianity by their actions? You mentioned the Fulani Jihad, what do you really know about the motivation behind that Jihad? The Borno empire had a muslim leader and wre muslim before Dan Fodio carried out his campaign yet he still tried to capture them to ensure his own ethnic stock ruled over them. Go do your research again.

You are right about muslim solidarity, but that doesn't translate into Homgeneity. Islam is interpreted differently by different people and thus there is no one single view about Islam. And I reassert that there is no Islamic State as of now because no muslim country is governing it's population baed on strict Islamic doctrine. Instead we have a corruption of that doctrine to suit what the rulers of those countries want.

As regards the' bull rubbish' I don't understand what that means, but I can tell you I culled that article and did not write it myself. I do not agree with ll the views presented in it, but I thought it contained some home truths that fair-minded and objective people will see. If you say an Islamic state and a muslim state are the same, then a christian and christianity are also the same, meaning all the iniquities that christians commit as humans can be taken to be the instruction of the bible. I have read the bible many times, and I do not subscribe to that view. You are free to believe what you want.

@ mlks_baby

On the other hand, Islam is also being defined by a small group of Muslim extremists who lend credence to such a distorted image of Islam. Both portray Islam as a primitive, rigid and inhumane culture which is basically alien to basic principles of modern civilisation

.


I hope you saw this in his article? So he didn't mean that it's only the non-muslims that potray Islam in the way mentioned above.

He is right by saying Islam and Muslim are different, just like I would say Christian and Christianity are different. The Catholic churchordered crusades against Muslims in the 10th, 11th and 12th centuries, but that don't mean their actions represented Christianity or it's teachings. You are right that making a distinction now may be difficult, but that's only because there's no existing model to compare with. There is no single Islamic nation on earth as of now. What we have are Muslim countries that interprete Islam subjectively based on their unique experiences. And if the US or any other people or state assumes that Muslims are one homogenious group, and as a result formulate policies for that one bloc of muslims, those policies are bound to be inappropriate for them, because there is no real homogeneity accross board.

You a re right about his confusion on how Americans should view Countries with a large muslim majority, but let me also give a practical example to show you what hemeant when he said the middle east dictates the way Americans and indeed every other nation views Muslims. A black Muslim man after getting a Visa into the US gets to the immigrations stand at the airport, and on screening the immigration officer discovers he is muslim, and worse black. He is put through a lot of indignities supposedly because as a Muslim, he could be linked to, or have sympathies for the Palestinians or other Muslim groups. Now, what is the central issue here? The Americans view every muslim as a potential suicide bomber. Now, do you have suicide bombings in Nigeria? So, why would a Nigerian muslim be subjected to the treatment meted out to say an Iraqi?

@luvamuslim

Please provide proof that Islam is from Satan. Also that Allah is a demonic spirit. The Holy bible says Christians should love muslims yet they (christians) found it convenient to kill, maim, and carry out other crimes against humanity in their crusades? Look, I have read the bible many times and I know that except for the Old testament where God sanctioned fighting against your enemies for the Jews, there is no place where a war against unbelievers is sanctioned. Especially when Jesus (ASW) came, he preached peace, tolerance etc, and yet the church acted in contradition to this teaching of love, now does that tantamount to Christianity being from Satan? I am not saying that's what is making Muslims kill people today. In most places except may be Northern Nigeria, Muslims killing others is always because they are being oppressed, killed, and left with no means to fight back. They then resort to desperate measures like suicide bombing, choosing to die fighting rather than an inevitable death by the enemy. Now this is sanctioned and allowed in the Quran. It's called self-defence and it obeys the first law of nature-self preservation.

I am however awaiting your proofs.

@ Reverend

Following is the editorial of Nigeria Guardian Newspapers. Please read and react.


America's Misperceptions Of Islam
By Shurabuddin Ahmed
Never before has the image of Islam has been so terribly distorted in the US as after 9/11. Islam is constantly being defined and served to the American public by non-Muslim analysts. Most of them are anti-Muslim through and through. They deliberately present a distorted picture. Maligning Islam appears to be their sole mission.

On the other hand, Islam is also being defined by a small group of Muslim extremists who lend credence to such a distorted image of Islam. Both portray Islam as a primitive, rigid and inhumane culture which is basically alien to basic principles of modern civilisation. Islam is depicted in the American media as the religion of war, vengeance, hatred and annihilation. It is misconstrued as a fundamentalist religion which is intolerant of other faiths, which establishes a male-dominated society and encourages and promotes terrorism.

Islam and Muslim societies are same: Many Americans do not make any distinction between an Islamic state and a Muslim state. The term Islamic state implies that Islam is the central factor that shapes the dynamics of such societies/countries. In contrast Muslim world or society understood as a plural and concrete identity allows a self-conscious Muslim majority in defining their own reality in an inevitably differential and dynamic fashion. Here the emphasis is not on Islam but on Muslim. They are never religious by definition, and their cultures do not necessarily mean religion.

The entire Muslim community is lumped together as a single monolithic group. Muslim countries have generally been characterised as a unified single block known as the Muslim world. This hypothesis ignores the diversity among Muslims. Islam encompasses far too many perspectives which after all contend among themselves for recognition and influence. A cohesive transnational Islamic movement simply does not exist. Thinking of Muslims as a single constituency is unrealistic. It has innumerable currents: violent and non-violent revolutionary, reactionary and middle of the road, socialist and capitalist, democratic and non-democratic Islam as proactive in the Middle East is different from Islam in Southeast Asia. The Indian Muslims are different from Muslims of Uzbekistan.

American judgement of Islam has been greatly distorted by taking the extremes to be the norm. Extremists do exist at the fringe but it is unfair to judge an entire community on the basis of stray or isolated incidents. There is also a regrettable tendency to overestimate the influence of the fundamentalist groups in Muslim countries. Not all those whom the US government and media denounce as Islamist extremists are true followers of the faith or even accepted as spokespersons of Islam by Muslims themselves. Little attention is paid to the overwhelming majority of Muslims who do not support or join Islamist movements and who do not favour any single interpretation of Islam and its dictates.

One of the most widespread misperception about Islam is that Middle East is regarded as the mainstream or true representative of Islam. It is true that the Arabic language and sacred places in Mecca, Madina and Jerusalem give for Arab world a special position. In recent years oil wealth and sheer number of petty Arab states have added to their influence and inflated importance. However, Arabs account for only 20 per cent of all Muslims. Interestingly, there are about 100 million more Muslims in the Indian sub-continent alone than in all Arab countries combined. It is ironical that regions like South Asia and South East Asia, where majority of Muslims live are not taken into account.

The global Muslim politics is dictated by events in the Arab World and not what obtains in other regions. It is due to the problematic of Muslims versus others syndrome that several ethnic religious conflicts around the globe are not brought to reckoning. In general American diplomats simply do not count religion as a significant factor in formulating policy for non-Middle Eastern Muslim countries like Indonesia and Malaysia. They have an especially hard time seeing Indonesia as a Muslim country, even though it is home to 185 million Muslim populations of all Arabs countries combined together.

Many in America believe that Islam is inherently anti-democratic or, at best is not hospitable to democracy. It is argued that the political reality in the Muslim world has more often been one of authoritarianism, monarchies and dictatorships. It is forgotten that the dictators reigning in the Arab world are not the result of Islamic principles. They are more a result of global economics and the aftermath of western colonialism. Men, according to the Quran are born free and are equal in dignity, rights and status, their worth and merit are to be measured irrespective of their origin and application, all humans are equal before the law and are entitled to equal protection of laws. Presumption of innocence and due process of law are necessary preconditions of justice. The Quran commands Muslims to conduct their collective affairs through mutual consultation (shura) and grants the privilege of God's vice-regency to the entire Muslim countries rather than to a single individual or a specific group or class of people.

The selection of a Muslim ruler must be based on the free will of the Muslim masses Prophet Mohammed (SAW) had established a political system that was representative and consultative, transparent, accountable and accessible to every one. In fact, the Islamic tradition of rules limiting the powers of sovereignty is much older than the concept of constitutional law in the western democracies. One may call an Islamic state a republic since the Islamic law rules out usurpation and succession as grounds of political legitimacy. The institution of Majlish-Shura comes every close to a modern parliament. The Islamic state has to be based on the principle of separation of powers. It ensures the founding of an independent judiciary and no one including the head of state, is above the law.

Another common misperception is that Islam is intolerant of other faiths. However, the Quran clearly says that "there is no compulsion in religion". When Mecca came under the sway of Muslim and Prophet Mohammad (SAW) entered Mecca, then no one was asked to accept Islam as part of this settlement. The non-Muslims were guaranteed right to their religious convictions, to profess and practice their own faiths. As far as the inter-faith relations are concerned, both the Quran and Hadith the (Prophet's sayings) are explicit about the desirability of relations between peoples.

In the first Islamic state of Madina, there were not only Muslims but Jews and others too. All were guaranteed rights to their religious beliefs, to profess and defend their convictions. More importantly, Muslims have a moral obligation to be fair and friendly in their person-to-person conduct towards non-Muslim citizens, and will be answerable to God for that. They must treat others with trust, benevolence and equity.

After 9/11 tragedy, Islam is seen by many in America as a fanatical doctrine which encourages and perpetrates violence and terrorism. Islam like all religions is a religion of peace and moderation. If it does not appear to be so today, this is not due to the teaching of Islam but to interpretations made by those who want to explain Islam to suit their vested interests. Islam clearly denounces wars of aggression and the killing of innocent people. Though Muslim ideologues have persistently declared that terrorism has no sanction in Islam, the entire Muslim community carries the awesome burden of dispelling the false notions about the meaning and significance of Jihad.

Doubtless fundamentalist ideas exemplified by Taliban and Al-Queda inspire certain segments of Muslim communities. But such elements do not represent Islam's authoritative voice. One should do well to take into account the silent majority's positive equanimity.

Last but not the least, it is commonly believed that Islam treats women unjustly and wants to create a male-dominated society. One should not judge the position of women in Islam by taking the most conservative Muslim states as representative of the whole. Some Muslim countries like Turkey, Egypt and Syria gave women the vote as early as Europe did to its women. In these countries, women have long enjoyed equal pay and the opportunity to play a full working role in their societies.

Rights of Muslim women to property and inheritance, to protection if divorced and to the ownership of business were rights prescribed by the Quran 14 centuries ago. In fact, some of these rights were novel till the 19th century. Women received their instant liberation from the cruel social customs at the hands of Prophet Mohammad in 630 AD.

The need of the hour is to move beyond the facile stereotypes and ready made images and answers. The tendency of the American media to equate Islam with radicalism, barbarism and anti-Americanism would seriously hamper the understanding of Islam. The challenge before the US today is to appreciate the diversity of Muslim actors and movements and thus to respond to specific events and situations with informed, reasoned responses, rather than come out with pre-determined presumptions and reactions.

*Ahmed sent this piece from Dhaka, Bangladesh.



Now what do u think about my earlier offer of cooperation in place of animosity?