₦airaland Forum

[quote author=EgunMogaji post=36546002]I'm calling an architect an artisan, you can continue to disagree.

My rate is not what's in question and this is a non sequitur. This is a serious conversation and I do not wish for this to delve into the more common Nairaland tit for tat debacle.

The intent of the thread is specific, have you paid an architect lately, if so how much? This is not a bash on architects. It also matters less to me what your profession is.[/quote
This is why people get defrauded by artisans and cry foul.

jerryunit48:
Please house I want to know if one can build a three bedroom flat in a 50 by 50 land and still have a parking space?

Yes you can depending on alot of otget factors

kopell:
This comment you made will be the only one I agree with you. Pls stop defending in defendable. Very few as that integrity it's happened everyday in our society, many don't See anything wrong in cheating from electrician to plumber, tilers ETC. I tell you short story about gas pump attender, told him to full my car tank, he pre pump the meter for N1200, before selling me the actual amount of gas I needed. When I confronted him, he started begin Oga it's a mistake. Imagine how many people he does that to on daily basis. How do you defend that?
They believe it's way of life. I rest my case full STOP

My opinions are strictly to construction cos you can easily avoid being cheated if you follow the right channel in doing things that is what am saying. Doing you know good Architect can give u possible cost implication of various stages of works and materials needed?. That is if you cant employ a QS. U can even hire them on consulltancy bases when u need expert opinions. Most of you believe in the trades men more than these professionals. Becos you believe its cheaper no to involve them, because all this isuess they went to school. And all these people can be reported to their professional bodies and even license seized if needs be. Not one person who does not belong to anybody and is for nobody. As long as clients seek shortcuts and do it myself attitude this wahala not go end the criminals go just discover new methods.
As for the fuel pump thieve u should have reported him and made sure him and his manager are delt with. By not reporting you are encouraging them.

HsLBroker:
what will be your gain destroying fellow men, with false accusation, some people are here that know that all this are game just to destroy a man, machinery at work, try to understand that there so many things involve in construction management, that sometimes in all your effort at end even what you met on site that the owner of the site don't know and you even try your best to explain, they won't believe or try to understand, in all I gave to this community, in all my effort, you want to pay me back with this your blasphemy, false accusation, how on earth you tagged me with the above handler, for what and in what, God alone can forgive u.because this not my name or username

Mr inverted hammer them no dey use agidi build a house. Because having a good project entails a lot of work and professionalism, please make enough money to get a good construction team. Stop giving to so-called engineers without a coren seal. The term engineer is the most abused in construction. Employ architects for supervision and monitoring if God blesses you enough get a project management team and you will complain less about hslbroker.
For your information am an Architect i have an MSc in architecture. If you have time look me up online and ask Google. But I don't think people like you can afford me so. Some of us know what we are talking about. Please also try to follow good architects.

oyb:
I paid a 'consultant' for speedy driver lic. It took 10 months
I had the same issue with passport

We have engaged different lasg Consultants' ( officers with side businesses). You pay top dollar, and they still cannot guarantee everything. Worse they keep mum about booby traps so they can charge more down the line. It's so bad that i am downloading materials so can be certain of ALL the requirements.

We are still coming to same junction now you guys are complaining official channels are always the best did my license and obtained original copies in less than 2months. If we all do things properly i bet many problems of swindlers andcquackery will disappear completely.

Juokorow:
For crying out loud, this is the freaking problem with our country! The man illustrated that the " most of you", including me would gladly pay 200k to rent metal scaffold instead of twice for the inferior bamboo or wood alternative. A winning proposition to all plus the environment. Yet people keep talking as if the lack of professional or occupational development is because people are not willing to pay for excellence. Which begs the chicken and egg question about whether Togolese hone their skills because "most of us" are willing to pay a premium or whether we are "slappy happy" to pay the premium because they demonstrate proactively acquired exceptional skills set. Segments of Nigerian market for any product or service have respective equilibrium prices. Enough of this crap about if the client is willing to pay. Ask the Togolese!

Boss i beg to disagree most people engage a togolese not just for quality but cos they are cheaper and naive. Me i dont tge guys you people engage but my best trades men as an architect are still nigerians most Togolese are overhyped just sent one parking from my site yesterday.

Am glad people are really seeing this from a broader perspective it make the deliberation more purposeful and problem solving. Lols nice one really glad to have contributed.

oyb:
It is actually because of poor regulation. Just have an accident on your site, especially in lagos, and you will see lasbca asking for your mothers maiden name and fining you to hell.

In the long run, it is more cost effective to have reusable materials.

u need to focus and lets know where you are stop dancing left and right.

Marilo:
Let me ask some questions here

1. Who is not willing to pay for what service?

2. Are you using your experience as an extrapolation tool for the construction industry in Nigeria? Do you have any data to buttress the fact that people are not willing to pay?

3. When you say "our market here",it makes it look like people who live outside Nigeria don't know what is on ground. You'd be amazed that many people know even much more than people at home. In any case, a forum like nairaland offers that bridge.

4. People who want to pay nothing for goodand services are everywhere, they are not limited to Nigeria alone. What is the correlation between paying nothing for something worthwhile and compromising standards? Shouldn't it be,if you're not willing to pay,
you won't get the service and standards can never be compromised?

5. I seem to be getting a feeling from you with what you wrote that because people are not willing to pay or that they want free service is reason to compromise standards.

6. That people are seeking for the best for nothing/cheaply is not a sin. What is a sin is compromising standards simply because the client wants to pay nothing!

Let me give you a personal experience.

I used to work for a service company on Osborne road Ikoyi Lagos years back. We were to engage the service of a carpenter for some bespoke furniture in the office as the office was newly acquired from the Japanese embassy at the time. Amongst those who bided for the contract was a Nigerian who looked so simple but sophisticated during presentation. He presented a 3D version of what the office was to look like after service delivery.During presentation, he kept on tweaking the prototype as we were condemning and commending his work. In the end,he got the contract,he delivered and we never ceased praising this guy.Nobody comes to the office without taking a second look at the furniture with a difference. He got many contracts from that job. I cannot forget the wicanda flooingr this guy delivered. This was a Nigerian in the midst of several other companies, many of them foreign companies.

U seem to be echoing my concern in a different tone i have never said cos people dont pay means they get substandard Job.i product might be durable but not so aesthetically pleasing. In as much as i dont ave an accurate documented data u also dont have same.
Am speaking as an architect having been on several projects i have seen and observed that the attitudes of clients greatly affects the end products of a project.
I dont want to go to many view.
Most clients give out jobs without knowing what it really entails to deliver the Job at the right quality shikena and most of these. U said in your statement that you guys were able to quiz and probe, that takes a certain knowledge level.

How many of you guys have Architects and services engineers on your projects through the life time of the project to ensure quality and control. how many of your consult them before engaging the trades men to find out if the understand the works they are about to embark on and have the capacity to deliver the project at the right cost, within the right time and the right quality. Its not about making excuses if all things are done via proper channel i bet you we wont even be discussing these issues. the truth is in as much as trades men are guilty clients are the most and they often loose the most.

InvertedHammer:
You got it!

How can a valid argument be: The clients are not willing to pay so we will continue to churn out mediocre products?

Are these people even listening to themselves? One factor is that everyone is about the money. Some of the workers do not have the patience to learn their trade the proper way. We have seen their handiwork. It is sad that the defenders of mediocrity are denying the existence of such problem. For them, it is all about cost as if artisans themselves are not out to gouge potential clients. What happens when a client pays the standard rate and yet couldn't get what he bargained for?
That's how people were making excuses for auto mechanics until their clients wisened up. Who buys millions of naira worth of cars to leave them at the mercy of the guess work of a mechanic? Mechanics who are serious in their trade were forced to upgrade and innovate.
Machines/tools make things cheaper like you noted.

Most of you have a shallow and passive knowledge of construction. really i can understand none of this materials are substandard my brother we are not takling about quacks here or people who do not know what they are doing. Framing roofing carcas of site does not make it original i believe any sensible builder will know that. and fabricating on site does not make it substandard that components are not precise does not make them fake its all a question of finishes and attention to details. lets not put our biases before our logical reasoning its quite important. using bamboo as formwork does not deminish the structural integrity of a floor slab and using steel does not improve the structural integrity. There is a level of work that demands for the use of some certain tools. Its important to understand all these things before jumping into conclusion how many client do their due deligence before employing trades men most of the time cost is the main determinant. the cheapest quote gets the Job. then you come here and say nasty things about those that work hard within this limitations to get their Jobs done just to feel cool.

Marilo:
1. My brother, there are CHALLENGES EVERYWHERE! the degree of the challenges varies but it's not to say they don't exist.

2. The attitude of clients will not change. A typical client want the best for low cost. It's the same everywhere.

3.Exploring a cheap way of doing business is not totally bad. Everybody (business owners/contractors and clients/customers) is looking for better deal for low cost. But paying a premium for a service with a difference cannot be disputed.

4. Even in those so advanced countries (I said so called because in reality, they also have their challenges), they engage the services of Lebanese and Chinese (If you doubt me, check the back of your iPhone and tell me where it was assembled). You see, the challenges are similar but with a great deal of variance.

5. Most of our problems/challenges in Nigeria are self-inflicted. Let's not get into the economics of disparity in service charge but in all, we are all looking at benefitting from the advantages offered by comparative advantage but standards must never be compromised and an "It-can't-be-done" approach should be in the trash-can (for LAWMA if you want).

I clearly understand you but our market here is quite different, please make no mistake let me repeat that i have never said it can not be done. please dont misunderstand me. i love good Job but most clients no dey put their mouth where their money dey. i have been priviledge to have a few designs oon banana island u need to see the quality of the finishes all done locally. from tiling to P.O.P to painting e.t.c All am saying is if you are willing to pay bross there is quality services everywhere here in naija.

wanaj0:
Thanks for the insightful post. You however need to ask why the 'small' builders don't use such techniques. It is simplistic to think it is just because they are lazy like so many people opine to here.

The first thing is standardisation. For you to go for prefab, you must have standard materials/dimensions. Wood in Nigeria are NOT in standard sizes. So the first step is to have wood 'factory' that produce standard sizes of wood of the right quality. You may want to invest in that if you are a Nigerian.

Next thing is logistics of getting materials to sight in Nigeria. You need to check access roads to some site.

You also have the cost for rigging and lifting. Lifting operations is one of the most hazardous work! Check out people working at height in Nigeria and see whether such will be acceptable in most parts of the world.

I always use scaffolding as a good example. Why do we use bamboo as scaffolding instead of iron?

Ur statements are from a laymans perspective iron are being used daily for construction in naija. Its a wrong notion for you to say that if you want iron form work it is available i dont really see the issue here most of the complains are available. We have people that specialises in scaffolding arrangment and formwork
Bamboo is a cheaper alternative in construction. And bamboos are not bad examples we can talk of improving their usability not that they are totally it still takes us back to square one how industrialised are we.
Instead of all these plenty grammer i expect someone of u guys to take it up as a business model to help correct it if u feel its such a big problem.

Marilo:
Allow me to come in here. We can argue this intelligently without ass-smacking (except in a friendly way).

1. Nothing is impossible and whatever is of value doesn't come cheaply (I know you'd agree with that).

2 The argument is not about the cost as you seem to be over flogging that. The argument is a better and improved way of doing things differently (No one says it doesn't cost nothing). If the standard is to be followed and we as a country wants to play in the league of advanced nation,we should be prepared to pay the price (and I bet you people will pay, Nigerians have been known to be like that. If you doubt me, ask people who are still building during recession if the money was manna from heaven literarily).

3. Improvement and advancement come with a cost especially in the short-run but in the long run, efficiency of processes will reduce cost and the economy is going to be the better for it.

4. For professionals who know their onions, they carve a niche and trust me, there will be patronage. If you doubt me, remove the toga of impossibility, improve on your trade/profession by imbibing the "white man's" approach and you'd thank me later. Never ever say "Are you ready to pay for it?" (I see that rhetoric in many of your posts and it's nauseating, change that perception!). You know why people are talking Skimanski? Why people are talking Aventures? Why people are talking ArchitectB? Segcymoore, Abdulwastecx, podosci, segzy14 and the likes? They do common things uncommonly. They can do better but they have carved a niche! They will continue to have patronage (God Bless them).

5. Tell me one innovative way (white man's approach) you choose to carry out your trade/profession (by displaying some of your work here) and I'd tell you that you'd have succeeded in carving out a niche. Your work will speak volume and your market share will amaze you.

6. Never ever let money be a guide for what you do. Money is only a PART but not the WHOLE. Be creative and innovative first, name your price and your market share will swell.

7. If you must succeed, the cost is secondary. No one says you should charge a cut-throat price to show off your work. People have done it before and you can do better. Trust me, customers/clients are not unintelligent not to know they need to pay more for a more creative and innovative way of doing things.

8. From the foregoing, people will pay for standardised, creative and innovative way of doing things the state of the economy notwithstanding. They may haggle, but because yours is different,they'd pay something extra. Other professionals will be forced to adopt your style because they want a part of your market share and in the end,the economy is better. Be daringly creative and innovative. It is not cheap,we know that already!

Do not limit yourself by impossibilities that you create in your mind,they are euphemeral - Marilo.

Well spoken sir and i agree with you but bear in mind i had said same earlier that for willing clients all these are possible. This is not even a new innovation as we are made to believe.
As a professional i crave for perfection over the years i have seen the atitude of most clients towards professionals and artisans alike. I just dont subscribe to the direct criticism our artisans are doing the best with what they have make clients self the encourage and stop seeing dem as only beggers and thieves.
There are many challenges facing these guys except we want to say we dont see it. Most clients will pay lebanese and chinese way more than a nigerian fir the same Job. Cost has everything to do with construction sir in construction there thee key components in project management cost time and quality. Its an industry issue no individual from the guy that cuts lumber to the saw miller we dont even have public kilns to get out this timbre even if you can gather and get one how do you power them . Its a vast chain that will take time to close. The fact still remains sir cost is a main decided cos if cost is not a factor most of you woyld have contracted Julius berger instead of skimaski

johnson232:
The major issue i have with this thread is that most of the pioneers & active members are biased & full of talks...thereby making the thread really uninteresting...
U people keep screaming America this, America that...but u can't even afford the current cheap services offered by our local workers...People need motivation to think outside d box...u people are always looking for cheap services for all your projects...yet want America standards...how possible is that? I am not a builder...but i have noticed every person on here keep blaming the Nigerian builder, when most of u even uses bricklayer to supervise projects, because u don't want to pay money...

Enough of the bragging & talk...living in America or any foreign country doesn't bespeak one can comfortably build a bungalow...America architecture is different from dat of Nigeria, taking some factors into considerations...Everything can't be same...

Thank you sir may God continue to bless you.well spoken

EgunMogaji:
I trust your opinion Sir because you're in the thick of things.

Hopefully one day we'll get there. I can't argue the fact that you will need arrow straight wood. Something I've yet to find in Ibadan.

Thank you.

Some people should just learn to swallow their pride and recieve wisdom

InvertedHammer:
Nothing says the carpenter cannot assemble the rafters at the site with the correct measurements when the building is at the lintel level. Tell you what...when you buy a piece of furniture like cabinets in the US, it comes in a box. You the buyer will have to read the manual and put it together or pay a steep price to have someone else do it. But in most cases, most people do it themselves. Handiwork shouldn't be a rocket science not atleast to a professional in carpentry.

Get the measurements, have the mill cut the woods to the desired length, move them to site, assemble and lift. Such algorithmic approach saves time and money. You have refused to think outside the archaic way of doing things. Left to your kind, we will still be moving around on bicycles because inventing such a thing as a car is impossible. Think black man. Think. It is not illegal or a curse to think. Good luck.
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Are u a white man, comprehension seems to be the problem here i think you should re-register for TOEFL maybe that will really help you. What do you understand in construction if its so easy oga lemme give you manual and you can climb up the roof and nail them urself. Is there not a clear difference between between furniture and carpentry.
For the intelligent people in the house i have not said its not possible all i have said is that will anyone that wants such be willing to foot the bills shikena. Please we all know there are grades of construction and you get what you paid for.( that is if you are not dealing with quacks)
For the curious minded for you to achieve roofing such as this even roofing system where only bolts and nuts are used for the joints is never the issue in naija seriously, issue is what is the clients spending power.
For instance u need a comprehensive set of drawings detailing each aspect of the construction from foundation works to roofing all this accounts for a high level of accuracy in the construction process all this comes with money you need surveying tools on site for alignments and levels, to check corners and plumbness. e.t.c
To my dear friend with comprehension issue people like you will go to sawmill you will buy your wood and keep complaining about poor workmanship.




I still retain my question are the clients willing to foot the bills as it is, if yes i can assure you all is possible, after all all this people have family to feed and they cant do what will end them in debt just becos they want to impress a client.

InvertedHammer:
Nothing says the carpenter cannot assemble the rafters at the site with the correct measurements when the building is at the lintel level. Tell you what...when you buy a piece of furniture like cabinets in the US, it comes in a box. You the buyer will have to read the manual and put it together or pay a steep price to have someone else do it. But in most cases, most people do it themselves. Handiwork shouldn't be a rocket science not atleast to a professional in carpentry.

Get the measurements, have the mill cut the woods to the desired length, move them to site, assemble and lift. Such algorithmic approach saves time and money. You have refused to think outside the archaic way of doing things. Left to your kind, we will still be moving around on bicycles because inventing such a thing as a car is impossible. Think black man. Think. It is not illegal or a curse to think. Good luck.
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Are u a white man, comprehension seems to be the problem here i think you should re-register for TOEFL maybe that will really help you. What do you understand in construction if its so easy oga lemme give you manual and you can climb up the roof and nail them urself. Is there not a clear difference between between furniture and carpentry.
For the intelligent people in the house i have not said its not possible all i have said is that will anyone that wants such be willing to foot the bills shikena. Please we all know there are grades of construction and you get what you paid for.( that is if you are not dealing with quacks)
For the curious minded for you to achieve roofing such as this even roofing system where only bolts and nuts are used for the joints is never the issue in naija seriously, issue is what is the clients spending power.
For instance u need a comprehensive set of drawings detailing each aspect of the construction from foundation works to roofing all this accounts for a high level of accuracy in the construction process all this comes with money you need surveying tools on site for alignments and levels, to check corners and plumbness. e.t.c
To my dear friend with comprehension issue people like you will go to sawmill you will buy your wood and keep complaining about poor workmanship.




I still retain my question are the clients willing to foot the bills as it is, if yes i can assure you all is possible. afterall all this people have family to feed and they cant do what will end them in debt just becos they want to impress a client.

InvertedHammer:
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Why would a carpenter charge for tools? Does a carpenter come empty handed to site? We are advocating that they upgrade their tools and skills. Some basic masonry jobs are now going to the Togolese and Ghanians. There are reasons why the Arabs and Lebanese are taking over road constructions. Nigerians would rather put money in showing off than upgrading their businesses.

You know a job that will take them one week will be done in 2 days with the right tools. He will have more opportunities to get other jobs. It is called good time management. We are tslking about efficiency and you are talking about price. Have you seen anyone complain because his/her mechanic used OBD II scanner for diagnostics? These tools are very much affordable. A good tool saves time, money and effort.
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Yes boss you charge for equipments money was spent to buy those and if a client requires such. The cost and value has to be placed on it do you know what it cost to get a simple pully to lift those sections, will you be willing to pay extra for transport that brings such timbre to site . Will you be providing power for these poeer tools or paying additional for the battery. I well kilned wood with less that 20% water content cost more than 2k for 2x6 so what are we talking about. Its all boils dowm to cost most of us pay 650self naaah plenty noise say the carpentre don swindle you.lols lols

[quote author=InvertedHammer post=55051908]They lift them with a winch.

Some get creative by using forklift.

Only in steel roofing or when very big construction companies are involved that have I seen a crane used. You can achieve the same result with less power tools.

If you bring them to a site, those workers will find ways to lift them at the right price. It is just that we refuse to use our these timbre will be between 290-350dollars per piece pls someone help convert that. How many of you will i tell to bring like 6k for a 2x6 and u will not report me here on nairaland that i want to rub you ease lets be realistic and stop chasing shadows abeg.

InvertedHammer:
Exactly.

I just watched your video. What else can I say?

Our builders are mentally lazy. I still question how a busy contractor will have his/her clients buy bamboos and 1x12 for decking. They can configure steel poles and reusable base. If the cost of decking wood, nail and bamboo is N400k. A client will gladly pay N200k for those in each decking if presented as an option. For a three decking house, it will put atleast N600k or say N500k if discounted in the pocket of the contractor. The same goes for plastering the outside of a house instead of wasting money on 2x4s and planks. Building equipment pay for themselves over time. Ten jobs will be enough to offset the cost of procuring the equipment. The clients and contractor will be happy.

There is a lot of unnecessary waste in building in Nigeria. A builder that goes around this logistics challenges will have his/her profit margin grow exponentially. All it takes is sitting down and THINKING.

The first iphone was good. But today we have iphone 7 because oyibo knows that good things can be made better. Mercedes190 was good but Mercedes S63 AMG is better. We need to keep improving. Improvement doesn't necessarily mean more expensive, it means more efficient.
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Most of you guys are what Yorubas call enu dun rofo. Cos you have built a few all of a sudden you know all the problems construction faces in Naija. but if a carpentre charges you for most of these tools you will start speaking plenty grammer . Am still asking you sir is it the same rate you are paying ?

InvertedHammer:
What cost?

It is cheaper and makes for more accurate measurements.

The problem is that Nigerian builders lack ideas and innovation. One pattern/style comes up and everyone else copies. We continue doing things the way it was done in the 18th century. Most oyibo innovations are aimed at efficiency, reducing cost and saving time. That picture you saw is an evidence. The same wood, nails, tape and carpenter and subsequent transportation. Oh and the same wood lifting is involved to put them in place. Where is the added cost?

As I posted a long time ago, a Chinese developer built a skyscraper carcass in less than two weeks. Why? Because there are professionals working as a team. Give the same job to Nigerians, equip them with measuring tapes and they will still give a mediocre output. They'd rather have ten jobs running concurrently instead of concentrating on one and finishing it well. Sometimes you have to chase carpenters and plumbers around to complete a job you gave them. It has more to do with character, culture than cost. We are mentally and intellectually lazy. Without looking at the details, your mind already raced to money while erroneously assuming that it is more expensive. It is this defeatist attitude and fear of trying new ideas that make for stagnant development.

If in doubt, think about our refineries in this 21st century.
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Boss what is the rate you pay for labour compare to what is obtainable outside most bearly manage enough money to even afford tools. I know outsid naija the labour rate is from from 3-7dollars per hour compare dat to what you pay. Plus are these machines readily available that allows you cut most of these materials precisely. And when someone gets this the client refuseto pay for it. In naija you see men pricing professional services like say naahh oyingbo market them dey. Lols. The truth is if you are willing to pay the cost you can achieve any finnish you want in naija. Am very sure of that.

Mayor78:
This oyinbo people I dont know what to make of them. Imagine this one delivering a factory made measure to make roofing caracas. All dimensions are taken, sketched and cut exactly to nearest measured millimetre. Na waa, I am just wondering if our carpenters and engineers here can give us similar services without stories 'Oga the wood wey you buy no reach',
Oga no be my fault we be say the length no reach, na as the engine de cut am be that!
Oga na small problem now we go come amend am but you go put small money!
Oga we no get light since last month the work never ready!
Oga we no dey oyinbo land I never see person wey do roofing caracas for workshop-ooh!
Oga you wan turn us to winch, how you wan make we measure your roof and doam for another place.

Our people will come with ndless limiting excuses as they look for ways to dealt with you? I wonder oooo!!!

Will the clients be willing to pay the due cost also?

rabcnesbit:
Okay, thanks. I suppose I might just have to leave it as per the plan and bear the cost

On a different note. Somebody mentioned to me that burglary proof/bars done separately is better and more durable that the ones incorporated in the window. What are your opinions guys? All-in-one casement window (window+burglary bars) or installing burglary bars separately? Thanks

it all depends on your aluminium man and welder in terms of strenght and durability they are same for fixing stability the in built is better, plus you can incorporate wrought iron work to the window in place of the usual bars place in aluminum frame.

Something like this

rabcnesbit:
Okay, on a different topic. I have got to the stage of installing windows to my building. The number of windows is 56!!! As I am planning on going for casement windows with inbuilt burglary proof and mosquito netting/screen, this will cost me a few bob! So I am looking at reducing the number of windows. The draughtsman that drew the plan for me drew windows for the small stores (one store per flat; block of 4 flats), so that's 4 store windows I could potentially get rid off, as I do not see the reason for a window in a small store in a flat? Or an I wrong, is it definitely needed?

what you can do is if the store opens to the Kitchen directly you can make use of fancy blocks at higher levels to compensate for the windows. or better still stop the wall between kitchen and store at after the lintel depending on your design out look.

rabcnesbit:
Okay, on a different topic. I have got to the stage of installing windows to my building. The number of windows is 56!!! As I am planning on going for casement windows with inbuilt burglary proof and mosquito netting/screen, this will cost me a few bob! So I am looking at reducing the number of windows. The draughtsman that drew the plan for me drew windows for the small stores (one store per flat; block of 4 flats), so that's 4 store windows I could potentially get rid off, as I do not see the reason for a window in a small store in a flat? Or an I wrong, is it definitely needed?

Not the best way to cut cost as some food materials gets bad when there is no proper ventilation. Also lack of ventilation supports dampening by raising humidity within the space and spoils grains. that 50k will serve the users better.

ebocoms:
Good day guys,

Please I need an estimated bill of materials to do Raft fence in water logged area. The side Length =120ft and front side = 60ft. The back of my land and one other side has already been fenced. I only need to fence 2 sides. Please I would need also rough estimate for Carpenter, Iron Bender and Casters.

Please I want to compare with what I have been given. Thank you.

Great day sir you need to provide more info at least send in pictures, or better still invite those that might be interested to visit the site this is the only way you can be given a viable quotation.
Have a blessed day.

eebadhan:
This is my second post on this forum, after years of being a silent observer. Unfortunately my experience with HSLBroker will not deter from engaging other artisans on this forum.

For the record, I contracted Hsl in 2015 for my roofing job, the scope of work covered woodwork as well as step tile aluminum roofing sheets.

I really believed this guy was the guru on roofing, owing to all of his previous threads on nairaland, in addition no one had ever complained about his job.

Guess what, my project was a huge disaster. He used the wrong size and type of wood , the spacing between the wood were too wide for step tile aluminium, to cap it all, the wood work was all crooked and uneven along the entire perimeter of the roof.

All these flaws were initially not visible to my novice eyes until they began to install the aluminium, the entire aluminium surface had so much dips and dents, the fascial board were all uneven. When I brought this up to HSL attention, especially the dents on the aluminium, he said as soon as rain falls on the surface of the aluminium it will become plum. It's been two rainy seasons now, the dents have now morphed into craters.

The solution is a new roof, which is really annoying, but more irritating it's the lackadaisical attitude of the contractor, he probably has forgotten about me and my project, but I see that roof everyday, and each time I see it, it makes me very angry.

I really feel your pain boss. HSL you cannot be right and everyother person wrong you have not had just a single positive review Just Apologise make ammends where possible, cos these monies are hard earned cash that has not yielded value.

EgunMogaji:
It has also been argued here before that sometimes architects design these 3D's without taking into full consideration on what's available locally as in regards to materials and skillset.

Hopefully, you'll be able to design and build something that you can show us in due time.

Thanks.

This still goes back to what we are saying sir, Naija has so much developed that depending on the clients spending power can achieve any finish that is so required how do you build a house worth 100M and give the roofing to baba Sikira despite warning and u expect the same result with some popular brand, baba sikira will do it cheaper but he might lack equipment and technical know how to enable him deliver as required.(Apologies to all Baba Sikira's in the house, no harm meant).I don't believe really believe in sharing pictures its just our clime that has forced that on us.
Please note that am not ruling out Architects culpability in the whole process, my advice to clients is that they stop patronising cheap architects that mass produces your drawings and share according to your demands. i see a lot pple ask for designs in here by just giving dimensions. Just Dimensions of sites are not sufficient to achieve a required result an actual site visitation is required.
My point is that only one factor is not always culpable for the issues or challenges faced in achieving a particular design.
Thanks for taking your time to reply greatly appreciated and please have a blessed day.

FastShipping:
I have been a victim of quacks here. Don't believe the pictures you see here.

Without sending me pictures, I know what you must have gone through. My roof was completely torn down and had to be done twice. I don't know how some people come here to pose as professionals when they are actually stark illiterates in real world. I just don't like destroying people. My advice to him at the time was to have somber reflection and to change his way and not pose as what he's not. If I decided then to open a thread here about what happened to me, I believe he wouldn't come to nairaland again or hurt himself. A lot did go down during my roofing stage. Sometimes when I see him taking on people's builds and criticizing their work, I just open my mouth with disbelieve. I hope the guy finds other way to earn a living.

Up till today I saved his endless plea he sent to me on BlackBerry and promise he made to be of good conduct.

I just left things to God because God has never let me lack much.

I understand your gentle man Conduct sir but i believe you should always expose these questionable elements anyone who has a good claim i believe will come and defend himself or herself with proof to show otherwise. They are bad elements that must be exposed to make Nairaland safer to conduct business its very important.

EgunMogaji:
We've seen many 3D that the final build didn't look anything like it.

Set up your own thread and walk us through the construction phase.

Great day
The reasons are Quite Simple there is a disconnect between the drawings and the team. Either the Architectural drawings are not build-able or the construction team doesn't know what they do. Am not a building contractor sir Am an Architect and i can only speak for my drawings having Adequate details to ensure the realisation of the design, that is the whole essence of my practice. If the client does involve an Architect in supervision and gets an otherwise result i think that lies with the contractor and the client. Many Clients and contractors cuts plenty corners and want to blame the design. A design Job given to a competent Architect will always yield the same result.
Have a blessed day sir.

elengine:
Pls house. What kind of house can I build on a 30 ft by 80 land. Can o do 3 bed room flat up and down

Yes it can do that most definately